Understanding Drafting the Quarterback Position
A Historical Perspective
One of the most important abilities as a general manager, a coach or a scout is the ability to analyze talent. Each of these professions needs to understand what a players strengths are, what their weaknesses are, and what they will and won't be expected to be able to do. It's particularly important - and difficult - when it comes to talking about quarterbacks. What is it that makes a quarterback successful? How can you structure an understanding of how effective a player will be in 1, 2, 3 and 5 or more years from when they will be drafted? Why is it, historically, that so many quarterbacks have failed to make the leap from college to the NFL? There have been many quarterbacks who we can look at, to try to discover why it's such a difficult decision.
The first thing that every quarterback's coach knows is that most players at the college level are not really trained in a pro style of offense. The game is very different at the NFL professional level - faster, more complex, more difficult and far more stressful. Years of practice at reading defenses from under center, practicing footwork until it is second nature, working on the mechanics of throwing, developing a feel for the pocket, an understanding of the tendencies of 32 teams (many with playbooks the size of bookcases) is a massive and difficult undertaking. Having four or more additional years of practice at playing a game that mirrors the skills and abilities of the game at the NFL level is a huge advantage when a player reaches the NFL level. The NFL players are bigger, stronger, and much, much faster. Even for the most prepared QBs, the jump to the pros can be overwhelming. IPS, or information processing speed, is not always linked to raw intelligence, although intelligence is obviously a requirement as well to succeed at the position.
Developing a unified and effective footwork and mechanics combination is essentially the Holy Grail of the physical game of football, but they pale in comparison to the amount of information that a quarterback in the NFL has to process. Just the ability to run a huddle, function accurately and instinctively at the line under center, call the adjustments and prepare the team pre-snap is far more complex than most fans are aware. That's what makes players like Peyton Manning as incredibly good as they are. But Manning also had certain advantages, genetic and in the way he was trained, that few QB will be able to boast. He is also as hardworking as any player in the game, studying every nuance of his position and how it relates to every other player on the field. His practice habits are nearly perfect. It shows when he steps onto the field on game day.
Manning grew up learning perfect mechanics from his NFL pro father and from all of the coaches that Archie Manning would bring in. He learned from the best over the years, and has always had marvelous mechanics and remarkable footwork. They are also the product of intense training over a large number of years. If a player comes from a high school and/or college system where they rarely, if ever, play under center, that means that those 8 years of training in proper footwork, proper mechanics and the skills that an NFL QB requires under center - each of which is a major undertaking, it places the quarterback coming into the pros in a difficult position. Sometimes, the QB can overcome that kind of restriction. Other times, he cannot. Despite constant attempts at developing systems for judging QBs who are draft prospects, the approaches still can fail.
Looking through the history of the draft as I have, breaking it down by decades from the fateful meeting of 16 owners and management at an Ohio Hupmobile dealership, a meeting that created the name change to the National Football League in 1922 to the creation of the 1st draft by then Philadelphia owner Bert Bell from the 1930's, the draft has been an exercise in evolution, the lifeblood of the league. I've greatly enjoyed the process of learning the names of the principles, the stories of many of the players. The 30's and 40's saw many changes in the draft - how many rounds? How many players? What special circumstances do you create for expansion teams, losing teams, failing teams? How do you draft players, anyway?What will make one player successful while another with better metrics and physical skill fails?The experiences of World War II and the return of the vets in 1945, many of whom were willing to pick up a (small) paycheck for playing pro football saw the creation of a rival league, the All-American Football Conference one that was well funded and dangerous. At the end of the 1940's, the leagues merged for financial stability - they could not afford to bid against each other. Even in the 1950's, most franchises were still just reading magazines like Street and Smith's to choose their players.
1960 saw the first use of a computer to compile and organize draft information - three teams went in on a single computer, because they were expensive and after all, who would ever need one of their own? It took 4 years to develop a program, but it was used in the 1964 draft. And still players came in, covered with accolades. Some rose and some fell. No one ever became prescient, and mistakes were still made.
Also n the 1960's, the rival league called the American Football League began to create many of the same problems as the AAFC had done. The NFL first hired people to stay with their potential draft picks during the last two weeks before the draft until the choices were made - babysitters, in essence, called 'representatives. They included, due to the numbers needed, front office reps from the teams, former players and even local salesmen. Eventually, the leagues could not afford to bid against each other, and once more they merged. This led to the most televised games in history - the Super Bowls. The first player to ever be chosen by computer would play a role there, too, as we'll talk about below.
In 1971 the first combine was held, but by only three teams. Other teams soon tried to create their own. The league Combine experience, much as we know it now, was started in 1979. Over the past thirty years, players without number amazed at Combine and failed on the field, and others tested poorly and later stood at the podium in the Hall of Fame. Still others were hailed and succeeded. No magic wand for predicting the future was discovered.
To this day, many players who seem to have few flaws just cannot make the jump to pro football. Others have those flaws and for some reason, not always understood, revert to them under the stresses of the game - despite intensive training, muscle memory can be hard to overcome. Some succeed. Some fail. And no one has ever gotten all of them right. Even the great Bill Walsh, one of the best quarterbacks coaches in a very different era, had players who just didn't make it. And therein lies the rub, as Shakespeare said. Hundreds of years later, it's as true as it was then.
There are some things that we do know. For one thing, many coaches have shared their wisdom on what makes a quarterback more likely to succeed. Certain teams have written manuals for each position, covering the physical body type that will fit best into their specific scheme, and they use these to reduce the chances of failure. Knowing exactly what you want from your quarterback is essential. If a quarterback fails, he might have been very successful in a different system. Conversely, some quarterbacks who don't seem to be the 'type' for one team fit perfectly into other systems. The game is increasingly complex with each passing year. Few, if any, fans really know the extent of how specific the needs of these systems are. computerized systems now are used by many teams that can fit the exact proper motion onto the video screen and layer images of the actual throws, one on top of the other, to train the quarterbacks. Technology is beginning to truly be embraced that offer the opportunity to improve in new and more effective ways.
And we still get it wrong at times. What has also changed is that we now have an understanding of some of the factors that go into success and failure. Here are some:
1. Coming from a 'gadget' style of offense. As mentioned, a quarterback can lose as much as 8 years off of his development in terms of three of the most important areas of the job description. No matter how good the QB is as a raw prospect, this has to be taken into account when considering a candidate in the draft. At the least, developing such a player is a longer process and regardless of personal feelings about this candidate or that, there is always the chance of failure. The team has to have a detailed plan in place before taking such a project and recognizing and balancing the importance of that extra roster spot has to come into it. Sometimes it fits. Sometimes it doesn't. Every team is different.
2. Team structure. The first aspect of that structure is whether these is a specific description of the optimum player and a recognition of the faults as well as the strengths of the candidate and an understanding of exactly how to get them ready to play in the NFL. I understand that the fanbase can minimize this at times, but it's more than important - it's essential. Teams such as New England, who have a well-earned reputation for drafting well let their scouts understand that if they put a 1st round rating on a QB who is drafted by another team and that QB doesn't work out, it doesn't reflect badly on the scout or his rating. He's only scouting for NE, and the same QB might have been successful in that system, whereas going to another system might have been inappropriate. Contrary to common knowledge, the system is just as important as the player who goes into it. Drafting a different 'type' in some area or at some position will tend to spell disaster.
3. Having an effective offensive line, and specifically, a left tackle. I cringe when I see a team with no Oline taking a young QB who they expect to start without reasonable protection, the same is true with a shaky running game, or with no quality receivers. Particularly with the line, you're essentially placing a young duck in a shooting gallery, and the shots are taken by 250 to 340 lb men. You're greatly increasing the chances of failure when this happens. It's not that a college QB, coming from a pro-style offense cannot come in and start during his first season. Players like Matt Ryan from Atlanta and Joe Flacco from Baltimore have made that clear. But it's also fair to say that these have been the exception, more than the rule.
4. The quality of the coaching. Players like Kyle Orton and Chris Simms came from environments where they were drafted with clear scouting reports noting that they shouldn't start for a considerable time and they needed proper coaching to become solid backups or starting quarterbacks. In both cases, that information was ignored. In Orton's case, some of it was necessity - Chicago lost one QB and had to bench another. The option of bringing in a veteran to fill in while each of these two developed wasn't chosen. Both lost ground and valuable development time by being put in a situation where they were far more likely to fail than to succeed. In Orton's case, he's now making major strides, but his ceiling is still unclear. In Simms case, he seems incapable of starting, and his injury may or may not come into that. Either way, he has not showed the ability to perform, and that is why he should be released at the appropriate time. Sometimes quality coaching isn't enough, but it always has to be central to the situation.
5. Every candidate for a position as an NFL QB has to have a lot of characteristics in common. All have to be self starters, the first on in and the last one out of the facility each day. They have to be able to tolerate being hit, and hit hard, without losing focus. Drew Brees showed that you don't need a huge body or great height. He's an anomaly, but he and his team won the Super Bowl against team one of the best QBs to ever play the game. By the way, as a student of history, I don't use that term lightly. The more history you study, the more that you realize that there have been heroic and remarkable quarterbacks in every decade. Choosing one as 'the best' is relative at best - the game has changed tremendously. Many modern QBs would not have long survived the forms of the game that have come before. Many from the past would be lost in the modern game. It's apples and oranges, in a minimal sense. Everyone is obviously entitled to an opinion, of course. My experience has been that the more you know from the history of the game, the less certain one often becomes when using such statements. But there is one thing that has been consistent since before they wore helmets: The quarterback, once there was one, has always had to have an extremely strong ego.
Every QB will be yelled at, corrected, put in his place and cajoled. He'll be vilified by fans and praised beyond belief or reason. Sports heroes provide an opportunity to take out the fans frustrations and to be the object of their adoration. There are often only moments between the two. A strong ego is essential.
I recently made a similar comment and was immediately called a racist with a 'liberal dime store philosophy'. Since both religion and politics are now being brought onto the site, I think that it's time that I make something clear - MHR has always held to a tradition of keeping religion and politics apart from this site and from football, and for good reason. My concern with any player who is a candidate for a position on the Denver Broncos is going to be judged by how well he's prepared for the NFL. There is no philosophy involved in my statements other than basic sports psychology. My source for this comment were the words of several NFL coaches, past and present, whose opinions I respect on the subject of quarterbacks and textbooks on psychology, which was part of my professional training. If someone wants to consider science a 'liberal dime store philosophy' and ignores the statements of those managers and coaches who have the highest credentials in the game, well, it's up to them. I analyze QB the same way that I do every other QB in the draft. Every one has strengths. Every one has weaknesses. Not talking about both is a great way to lead to misusing a pick. It's also intellectually dishonest.
I think that some people may have gotten the wrong idea, and I want to clarify something: For me, there isn't anything important about what a player's particular religion is, and I feel no different if they are Muslim, Hindu, Shinto or Christian, agnostic or any other path, nor do I personally feel that one is more valuable than the other. Being of a certain faith doesn't change the trajectory of the football. Character does matter greatly, yet it's only one of a long series of important aspects and attributes that need to be taken into account. I'd suggest that we all stop, take a breath, and go back to football with a renewed sense of community and a willingness to accept different faiths and customs without further comment. Perhaps we are seeing how easy it is for a discussion of a football player to become sidetracked and turn into accusations around religion and politics. That could turn out to be a good thing. It's a very slippery slope and it's worth remembering that. My hope is that all of us can agree that this kind of name calling and accusation is not what we, as a site, have ever accepted or required. Thanks for considering this. Enough on that.
Josh McDaniels comes from the New England approach to the NFL. While most of us appreciate how well NE has drafted, it's worth taking a moment to look at how they did that. Over the decades, no one has been able to determine how successful a certain player will be. Injuries cut careers short, players who look like slam-dunk picks, to mix my sport metaphors, still manage to fail for reasons that are often only clear in retrospect. How do you overcome this consistently? New England, as I've mentioned before, developed an incredibly precise and thorough system of analyzing players, draft and free agent. They wrote detailed manuals for each position, clarifying the system they would put into place, the role of each player, the body type, including height and weight, arm length, foot speed, levels of agility required, etc, etc. The candidates in the draft are then compared to the ideal and measured against the needs of the team.
Vortex 7 managed to beat me to the next section, so I'm going to thank him, compliment his precision and accuracy and quote the man. He said this better than I could have anyway:
What do we know about McDaniels' QB mold? 6'4+, must show the ability to read coverages and blitzes pre-snap, must show the ability to routinely check down through his receiving progressions post snap, must show above-average accuracy and, more importantly, timing on short and intermediate routes - the routes his offense is based around. Arm strength is a must but more so regarding velocity on the short and intermediate throws - not so much with the deep ball. Athleticism in terms of speed and quickness are unnecessary. That's 5 for 5. That's a trend. What I gather from McDaniels' history is that you can teach a guy through improved mechanics and in the weight room (where I expect Kyle Orton is right now) how to drive the deep ball better. Through drills and practice you can get a guy who runs the 40 in 5+ seconds to feel pressure well and maneuver in the pocket. What you can't do (or at least what's harder to do) is change how a guy thinks and processes information. If a guy went through high school and college unable to sense where the blitz is coming from - how's that going to change in the NFL? If a guy has locked onto his #1 option almost every snap of his football career - how do you get him to throw to the #3 guy? That's why we've seen McDaniels succeed with late round picks in the past and why Kyle Orton took a huge step this season. The NFL draft doesn't always put priority on the best college football players, but rather the guys with the most potential. Guys who can run around and make plays, throw the ball 70 yards like it's nothing - they get drafted early because coaches think they can teach them the mental aspects of the game. McDaniels grabs the smarter, less athletic guys in the later rounds and builds an offense around the ability to be accurate and make good reads. I'm not saying it's the absolute best way (though, how can't you love a nerd(ier) quarterback) but it's the way McDaniels seems to operate.
That covers it very well: V7 has described much of what is in the manual for quarterbacks. One thing that you can expect is that McD will stick with that mold. Nathan Jones was just signed as a cornerback. He's exactly in McD's usual cornerback mold, a player about 5'10", 180-190 lb, which is not surprising since Josh McD wrote the cornerbacks manual at New England. He's very clear that he wants bigger men, stronger, tougher men who are as versatile as possible and who show intelligence and leadership - even if they are just being brought in as backups. His adherence to the quarterback mold will tend to be equally firm.
By the way, this is, according to Michael Holley's book Patriot Reign, pages 153-154, a short quote from that manual on quarterbacks. It only covers some of the non-physical aspects of what is expected from the player at that position, but it seemed reasonable to share it:
1. Be the mentally toughest and hardest working player on the team
2. Be able to take a big hit and then walk back to the huddle and call the next play (Note: this may eliminate Tony Pike in 2010)
3. Have his head screwed on straight enough to handle the pressure and scrutiny to which all NFL QBs are subjected (i.e., have a strong ego)
4. If you want to know who the good quarterbacks are, watch the passes they complete under a heavy rush. Watch the first downs they get on third and long, passing into heavy coverage. Listen to what their teammates say about them."
There was more. Belichick is said to have included 11 'commandments' (Michael Holloey's word) for the QB position. I'll add this one from Belichick, for those who like their QB candidates famous. It gives an indication of what is important at the position:
"Don't be a celebrity quarterback. We don't need any of those. We need battlefield commanders that are willing to fight it out everyday, every week, and every season, and lead their team to win after win after win."
This is how New England - originally just Bill Belichick actually, though he and his entire organization brought the system to maturity - has done so well in the draft and in free agency. While it's true that New England has been famous for piling up picks, and having multiples of the best value picks in the second round, they weren't able to do that originally. First, positions had to be filled with players who fit the mold, who fit the manual, and who survived an extensive grading system that used a series of both lower case and upper case letters, any of which can be doubled to show that it's an unusually strong characteristic in a certain player. They finally grade the candidates with a numeric system that is also extremely thorough, denoting precisely what role they believe that a certain player will fill.
Over time, the Broncos fan base may have an opportunity to watch and to see exactly what body types the Broncos are interested in having at each position on the field. Some thought that because a certain body type - 6'4ish, 290, for example - was used at DE last year that we'd see more of the same. Not to hammer a defunct equine, but there was not a lot of time to prepare for that time for free agency and drafting before making the decisions that were required to simply field a team. That was what I liked about 2009, despite the issues in the second half of the season - given the situation, they did it pretty well. I saw what everyone else on MHR did: two big problems, as a general thing. Our offense obviously needs to play better - I don't leave out a single player. And, once the rest of the league figured out our blitz packages, the players weren't of high enough caliber in one on one matchups to stop the opposing offenses, or the defensive changes to mask those blitz calls weren't done well enough (Most likely both). Larry Coyer once had that problem, but he's seemed, from what I watched of him in the playoffs, to have overcome that problem. Wink Martindale will have to do the same. But Wink will do it with bigger players, and the ones that are being brought in for the offensive line show the same tendency to be bigger than most.
It will take time that I hope we have, to see what the manuals must say at different positions. But when you look at the QB position - that's pretty much cut and dried, at this point. The solution that Bill Belichick came up with in many ways takes the approaches of luminaries such as Paul Brown and Bill Walsh and moves a step further. He laid out what he saw as the 'perfect' team on paper and then drafted and acquired exactly those kinds of players to the extent that was possible given the group available each year. This was, in very short, how he decided to try and overcome the 'crapshoot' aspect of the draft. Has it worked? It certainly did in the past decade. Will it work in Denver? That's a different story entirely. But, we'll see.
It would also be a mistake to assume that McDaniels has no individual ideas on certain positions, approaches and schemes. He is, although still a young man, very much his own guy. He gives great credit to those who have taught and mentored him, as he should, but he has also made it clear that he has strong feelings about going beyond the boundaries of what other people have done. He's going to do things in his own way, but he will also not try to reinvent the wheel. There is a middle road, and we can expect him to try to take it, integrating his own concepts with the overall structure that has done so well.
That means that we will be seeing specific body types, mental abilities and character traits at certain positions. It's the new way to try and defeat the 'luck' aspect of the draft as much as is possible. It also means that changing the perspective on the quarterback position - from the cannon-armed, mobile player who may or may not make the jump to the pros to an emphasis on height, less concern with 'power', central abilities like accuracy over power and a strong emphasis on intelligence over physical abilities that don't really matter to this approach. What kind of QB McDaniels will chose is more or less a predetermined issue.
You can never really get away from luck. It always comes into the game, from the stray bounce to the untimely injuries that can halt a winning season or destroy a promising career. But since the first scout was hired - His name was Eddie Kotal. He was hired by the then Cleveland Rams owner Dan Reeves in 1941. Kotal would create the lifestyle that scouts maintain to this day - on the road 200 days a year, developing relationships with coaches, assistants, athletic directors and anyone else who could provide any insights that might turn the tables on a draft pick.
Coaches, owners and management have striven to change the course of fortune, to overcome the problems of the draft and to devise systems that best employ new skills and new approaches in order to create a winning tradition within the clubs. It's never been easy, and often, innovation found itself the butt of jokes and jibes. Those would turn to accolades if the new innovation worked. By the way, the first player chosen by computer?
Joe Namath. Apparently, even in those early days, some things were starting to go in the right direction. But, as any computer person will tell you, GIGO - garbage in, garbage out - is an essential concept to remember. Dallas was one of the three teams to go in on the computer, and they had set up former hospital baby photographer and part time employee Gil Brandt as one scout. Brandt would later become Dallas' first director of player personnel, as the system evolved. His work, and Tex Schramm's, went a long way into getting the scouting together for the computer to give a smart answer. And that's really what this is all about.
It's about the evolution of the game. MHR members have noticed that over the past year increasing levels of emphasis are being placed on two things - first, studying game film has always been important and people like Ted B made it clear how valuable that was, so the MHR group Upon Further Review evolved to study the film of Broncos and their opponents, and secondly, statistics, which was handled at one point by Doug and has evolved into the work of people like TJ, 'The Dude' Lebowski and Brian Shrout as well as several talented members. It's that same evolution that drives the choices that will be made over the next several weeks, in free agency and in the draft.
There's another thing about the idea that somehow taking a QB in the first round is somehow a better approach than the one that the Patriots and now the Broncos are using. Despite the huge furor that a 1st round QB receives, the odds on success aren't that good anyway. This isn't to say that if McDaniels and Xanders saw a QB who matched their characteristics and was a 1st round choice that they wouldn't go after him - of course they would. But here's something from Bill Billick's book, More than a Game:
I wrote that there have been 40-plus quarterbacks taken in the first round since '95. By any stretch of the imagination, 13 or 14 of them have been successful. "We always say it's a 50-50 crap-shoot when you take a quarterback in the first round. Well, it's more like 70-30 (against). Those are the odds. These guys (recent draft choices) are probably on par with the failures of first-round quarterbacks for the last 20 to 30 years in the NFL."
That's one reason that Bill Belichick decided to take a different approach to developing quarterbacks: The old system just hadn't produced consistent results. As far as the NE system with manuals and specific positional requirements that are unusual, will it work? It has so far. What's the downside? It takes time to change a team this way. It's not a one year proposition, especially with the lack of a CBA and a possible lockout hampering this year's free agency and contract negotiations. Kaptain Kirk even noted, "The Uncapped year is going to turn the 2 year rebuild, into a 3 year rebuild" Kirk may be right - certainly it's an obstacle, of whatever degree. But the system that is in place now in Denver has one key value that can't be overlooked:
It's already won 3 Super Bowls and led to more years in the playoffs. It's just a system, but it's one of the most thorough, intricate and successful approaches in the game today. Now it's time to see if it can bring that level of success to Denver. It's going to be a heck of a ride.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Emmett
Great read. Rec’d. Very interesting insight. Excellent work. Not much more I can say…
Hi Emmett!!
I haven`t even read the article yet (I`m sure it`s fantastic) I was just excited to see your post and got excited and wanted to say that it is very nice to hear from you again. I hope that you are feeling well.
It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?
aka Solace
by Jason Witte on Mar 6, 2010 3:14 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
Another superlative post, Em
I miss your regular posts and jump on these less regular posts! Couldn’t agree more with your notes on religion and politics belonging in a different venue.
Thanks and rec’d as always!
"Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character." -- Albert Einstein
by hairybear on Mar 6, 2010 3:16 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
Thank You!
I noticed in years past the NE would often draft a player that fit their profile and needs quite a bit before he was predicted to come off the boards. Do you think this is something we can expect now?
Yes, Digger, I do
It’s already happening. McX drafted a few players – Bruton, McBath (although he can rally play), Quinn, even Smith, and are looking to develop them. So much emphasis is put on the NE manner of building up draft picks and having a few to several in the 2nd at highest value for the dollar, but most folks don’t look back to the first few years with Belichick and what they had to do them. In 2000, they didn’t have a first round pick – extra 5, 6 and 7s. 2001, one in each round until 6, double 6 and 7s. 2002, 1st, 2nd, 2 4ths and 2 7ths only. You get the picture. Many folks ignore how they built up the team, got starters, increased depth, and then had more room to work with. It takes time.
But I’m huge on player development and short on expecting a new HC to magically wave a wand and fix a team that had not real defensive system or roster and many of the wrong players on offense for what we’re going to do. In-house player development makes a huge difference over time.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Great post, I agree with almost all of it.
I was the author of the “liberal dime store philosophy” comment and I stand by it. As far as bringing religion and politics into this site I completely agree. I don’t know about the entire context of MHR as it relates to your thoughts about Tim Tebow. Unfortunately I don’t have time to read every post. All I know are your thoughts about Tim Tebow as it related to a recent post of mine. In that post, YOU were the one who brought up religion. Go back and read the post and see if I am wrong.
You made a comment that was wholly ignorant and I was surprised it came from you, a thoughtful commentator.
By the way, I don’t give a frog’s fat ass whether Tebow is a Christian, a Muslim, or Hindu. A good or bad QB is a good or bad QB.
Which post?
If it’s the thread where you started name calling, please read it again. The comment was that he has a strong ego and that certainly doesn’t disqualify him as an NFL QB. There was a comment thread mentioned that noted his SB ad and I was replying – and yes, I’m sure he believes in what he said, yes, it does take a strong ego for a 22 year old to start suggesting to people what to believe in and yes, that will serve him well if he makes it as an NFL QB
None of that excuses your comment that I’m ‘a racist’ and suggests that basic psychology is ‘liberal dime store philosophy’. Unless you’re going to suggest that I called someone names – and please quote me if I did – name-calling is completely out of line and your comment on liberalism is dragging politics inaccurately into football, as well as your theory on some ’philosophy being inaccurate, as I was quoting both science and several football professionals, including Bill Walsh and Belichick. Joe Montana made the same basic remark.
If you disagree, feel free – but what you did violates the rules of conduct on this site and was boorish behavior, in addition to being completely wrong on all three counts.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
by Doc Bear on Mar 6, 2010 5:22 PM MST up reply actions 5 recs
flag inappropriate comments - John is not able to monitor every comment.
I’m not saying swg777’s comment was in violation of anything…I never read it…but if you think it is then please please flag it.
Things should never get personal between us Broncos fans….this isn’t a political or religious website – its a SPORTS blog. :)
That’s why I am here anyways. lol
If you all like or dislike Tim Tebow, please go talk about him on the Florida Gator blog…until he is a Bronco, let’s just leave that topic alone. lmao
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
by Tim Lynch on Mar 6, 2010 7:44 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
There's actually a website for him called "Tebow Zone" Lol...
Lmao… good stuff.
"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery
by Alexander Wall on Mar 11, 2010 3:17 AM MST up reply actions
Emmett...
I’m done with this topic but I hope you are too. You can paraphrase and revise all you want. I will, instead, use quotes. Here is your quote: “Those who need to inflict their spiritual paths on others who have not asked for that experience are simply acting out of their own egos.” Is this the worldview that says "don’t try to influence or change anyone because you might just be part of the solution and not the problem?
Your quote was ignorant, short sighted, but most importantly, had nothing to do with football. I made a post regarding football. Take your lumps. I will take my lumps and admit I probably shouldn’t have said the “liberal dime store philosophy” quote. Sorry.
And heck . . . I thought you were referring to a guy being munificent or generous in a small convenient store . . . My bad!
The point is, don’t heap coals on a fire when it’s already too hot. We are all fans in the sport and I have been pot shot at by the best of them. I’m learning to “turn the other cheek”. Oops.
swg, I just read that post, and thanks for re-posting it
But wasn’t Emmett’s comment about religion in response to someone else bringing it up? The quote could have started with, “I have no interest in his politics, sex life or religion.”
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
This needs to stop
Double Jay pointed this out below:
@swg777: if you check the comment history carefully, you will not that it was not Doc who brought up the issue of religion (that was another poster from the anti-Tebow camp who I will not name).
He’s right. I was responding to that poster. My comment dealt with anyone using the Super Bowl to try and press one of the most hot-button issues in our society – abortion – backed by a right wing religious group (Focus on Family) into the biggest football day of the year. I’d feel exactly the same if it was a left wing group. I don’t believe in mixing football and either religion or politics. I did make the point that it takes a strong ego to be involved in that. I have never suggested that anyone didn’t believe in what they were doing – just that it wasn’t appropriate to politicize the SB. My final point was that having a strong ego isn’t exactly a disqualification for playing QB in the NFL: It’s a requirement. At that point, I was called a racist.
I’m fine with someone disagreeing with me, and I expect that. A good debate is fine. What I don’t expect, and what the Rules of Conduct don’t permit, is name-calling. Dragging politics into it by using the term ‘liberal dime-store philosophy’ is inappropriate, and swg has been kind enough to apologize for. I commend him, accept his apology, and as far as I’m concerned, the matter is closed. Thanks to all who participated, including swg.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
by Doc Bear on Mar 7, 2010 12:54 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Here is a link to the post I made where the comments were made.
I made a football post that, through ZERO fault of my own, devolved into a religious post. I thought, mistakenly, that the topic of Tim Tebow could be discussed without delving into his beliefs. http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/3/2/1333106/a
As I said, I am done with this. Hopefully you are too.
by swg777 on Mar 6, 2010 8:55 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I like to talk about the Broncos
I despise the politics of religion,government,race gender, sexual preference when we’re talking sports about our Broncos.That other stuff is everywhere(newspapers,radio,television,cell phones,etc.,etc.)why does it have to be here?
I remember trying to talk and debate intellectually with Hari Krishna in the 70’s.What a waste of my life.Hours wasted on debate with people that had 1 agenda and no inclination to listen to other viewpoints.That’s when I realized to each his own.Let others believe in what they want and respect their space but don’t let them invade my space.To keep peace, let it go and walk away.Isn’t that really “turn the other cheek?”
When I come here to read about the team I love I don’t want POLITICS or RELIGION.I want FOOTBALL.There are 1,000’s of sites about other stuff.I want BRONCOS.This is the best site I have ever found for football information and it happens to be about the team and sport I follow the most.Can we lay off the things not pertaining to the DENVER BRONCOS?
Thanks to all who contribute that don’t have an agenda.It’s very much appreciated.
Amen...errrr...good point
Especially with how ugly the world is these last few years, football is the last pure escape most of us have…
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Rec #5 Doc
Thanks for a great write up
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
My heart skipped a beat when I saw who authored this.
ALWAYS excited to see (and REC) your work, sir!
And I have to add…“Not to hammer a defunct equine”…
Greatest.
Line.
EVER.
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
by ncm42 on Mar 6, 2010 3:39 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
I liked that line too
It topped the one I read in a novel once that went “The fecal matter hit the aerial impeller.”
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Mar 6, 2010 3:40 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Hahahahah...
That one does have a certain…image-laden charm…
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
Just saw this
And the email is on its way.
- Nick
"We got 'em right where we want 'em!" - Keith Bishop, right before John Elway orchestrated The Drive. 'Nuff said.
Wow, incredible post, Doc. It's always a pleasure to read your posts and comments.
Regarding the 4 “commandments” of a Belichick QB that you mentioned.
1. Be the mentally toughest and hardest working player on the teamDoes anybody in this year’s draft jump out at you in these four areas? Besides Tony Pike, of course. ;-)
2. Be able to take a big hit and then walk back to the huddle and call the next play (Note: this may eliminate Tony Pike in 2010)
3. Have his head screwed on straight enough to handle the pressure and scrutiny to which all NFL QBs are subjected (i.e., have a strong ego)
4. If you want to know who the good quarterbacks are, watch the passes they complete under a heavy rush. Watch the first downs they get on third and long, passing into heavy coverage. Listen to what their teammates say about them."
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
Sounds like Tom Brandstater
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
Crazy enough
I have not seen that much of him to be able to make that judgement, and unfortunately I don’t have access to game tape.
Brandstater appears to be the prototype QB on paper, but I wonder why he fell to the sixth round if he is so ideal. Not trying to sound ignorant, I just don’t understand why he fell to the sixth if he is so excellent. There are very few QB’s drafted that late who find success, and I hope we have found a gem.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Mar 6, 2010 8:50 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Here's the info on why the sixth round
A perfect storm of circumstances with enough coincidences with Tom Brady to be amusing. Here’s the article
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Agreed
Sayre you’re right, hopefully we found the gem, but it’s important not to jump to conclusions.
Brandstater
While I like him, and look forward to him playing in the future, I would like to point out that we have yet to see Brandstater in any real situation and to make assumptions like that is about the same thing people were saying last season when the wanted Simms to start and not Orton.
Well, I was just saying that Brandstater fits the Belichick profile
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
Yes, he does
I’m not jumping to conclusions either. In fact, that’s one of the things that his draft reports indicated: The young man had 4 offensive coordinators in four years, each with something different and of their own to learn. That’s good and it’s bad – he learned a lot of different things, but he hasn’t had a stable QB coaching experience yet. He’s got lots to learn, and he’s not the kind of player who you expect to come in and start quickly.
None of us know how far he’s gotten right now – he does fit the profile, he has had experience in a pro style offense and he struggled early in college with reading the defenses, but improved greatly by the end of senior year. Only time will tell, and we shouldn’t be in a hurry one way or the other. I do look forward to seeing him compete in training camp
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
QB in this years draft
1. Tebow
2. Tebow
3. Tebow/Bradford/McCoy
4. None
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Mar 6, 2010 8:48 PM MST up reply actions
Not really
Here’s where I am: Bradford is the closest thing to a Denver QB out there. He’s got the height, accuracy, experience under center, adequate mechanics and good skills at leadership. His shoulder, no matter what anyone says, is a concern. He’s done the right things, though, including putting on 12 lb of muscle and really improving his neck, chest, shoulder and arm strength. When you blow a shoulder twice in one year, there was a weakness there (probably just muscular at first) and it developed into a propensity. You do what he’s done – you put him with a very good PT/trainer/coach and you strengthen it, turning a weakness into a strength. More power to him. If we wound up with the 6th pick and took him, I’d be fine with that. I’m not holding my breath on that one.
\
Pike – he, too, has put on 10+ lb of strength and muscle. He’s got the height. Another 10 and he’ll interest me. Some scouts claimed that he didn’t have the frame to put on muscle, and he showed them wrong. The thing is, he’s weak under center, has durability issues, has limited leadership skills. Mechanics and footwork will need to be refined, but not invented. I’m not thrilled, but he’s an outside maybe.
Clausen – Wrong height and body type. Learned under Weiss, which is in his favor. Weiss is a lousy head coach, but he’s a very good offense guy and he knows QBs pretty well. Clausen’s coming out as a junior and should have stayed in school. He needs a lot of polish.Good leadership, but needs to control his emotions better (again, maturity). His accuracy is OK, but he tends to throw high due to problems with his delivery. Needs to be able to throw without a windup and has limited skills at throwing a touch pass. Throws late, forces throws into coverage (although he improved his INT rating very well last year). Locks on to his primary receiver at times. Good experience in a pro-style offense sets him apart from most QBs this year, but I don’t see him in Denver.
Tebow – Wrong height. Terrible mechanics. Footwork is OK in the shotgun, otherwise, none to speak of. Good arm strength, overall. Tried to change his mechanics once, and he always reverted to that windmill windup and release when in game situations. That same release has led to fumbles, a problem that would be much worse in the NFL unless he can change the mechanics and learn proper footwork as well as learning the rest of the pro game. Good leadership skills. No experience under center. Good runner with the ball, but Denver runs a pocket offense. Was a winner in college ball, but comes from a gadget offense and his states are inflated by the Urban Meyer offense. Very intelligent, but has limited skills at reading defenses, none from under center. Good intangibles. He’s a project – big risk, possible big reward in 3-4 years. Doesn’t fit the Denver mold at all.
Skelton – left Texas to get away from behind Stafford and Javon Snead. Went to the other side of the football world, Jesuit Christian in New York (Bronx) because of their academics as well as football. He’s still very raw, but his completion numbers increased every season. Prototypical height, big arm strength, good pocket presence. Good under center, reads defenses well, goes through his progressions better than most QBs but will trust his receivers and throw jump balls unnecessarily. Good intangibles, good leaderships skills. Fits Denver better than any QB I’ve looked at. He will probably be available in 3rd round, possibly fourth. He’s a serious consideration.
Lefevour – All over the place on rating him – he’s been inconsistent. Short by Denver standards, lacks experience in a pro-style offense. Average to shaky arm strength, floats passes to the sideline, no real deep ball. Poor decisions if his first target isn’t open, doesn’t handle progressions well, no experience under center, problems with mechanics, poor footwork. There’s more, but this is getting too long and he’s not a good candidate anyway.
That’s about it. If I had to guess, I’d guess Skelton. He is a pretty good fit, has the right background and is the physical type that Denver apparently holds to – just as NE does. I hope that helps.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
by Doc Bear on Mar 6, 2010 10:20 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Now that's funny because that' the same thing the pundits said about Joe Montana.
Clausen – Wrong height and body type.
Joe is not tall enough, they said, and he has a weak arm. That may hold true and if another team had drafted him (like what you stated) instead of Bill Walsh he might not be in the Hall or had won 4 superbowls. Montana was the perfect match for Walsh’s scheme as evidenced some years later. As it is documented that 3 out of 10 first round quarterbacks ever make anything of their selves, it is troubling that a lot of teams go that way in hopes of achieving the highest goal. So we can basically think that one of the three this year who are taken might make the big splash of success. Bradford, Clausen or Tebow (if he is drafted in the first). I would have to say Bradford is a prime candidate because he has most of the tools required. Clausen, he is unique as he has several features about him that parallel Montana, i.e., height, weight, same school etc. Tebow is a project player that will require more instruction and development than most if he ever is to succeed. I can’t see him just jumping into a starting role in his first year even though it’s possible with some of these head coaches in the league (desperate).
Overall, I’m with you on Bradford being more of a fit for McD’s scheme then any of the other three would choose him if we had the first pick. But the first pick always reminds me of Drew Bledsoe or Ryan Leaf…Jeez.
what was Skelton's religion again?
and …Libertarian?
What’s his stand on Gays in the Military?
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 8, 2010 2:17 AM MST up reply actions
Great Post.
I appreciate the time and effort you put into researching and writing this post.
Rec’d.
As a side note, this continued bickering on the Tebow issue is beneath us and needs to be put to rest. I am all for spirited debate and the free exchange of ideas, but most of what is being said on this issue no longer falls into that category.
@swg777: if you check the comment history carefully, you will not that it was not Doc who brought up the issue of religion (that was another poster from the anti-Tebow camp who I will not name). Doc usually does a good job of sticking to facts and logical supposition when rebutting arguments. I do think that everyone got a little snippier than they should on those comment threads though.
Understand the feeling about the bickering being beneath us, but I can't help
trying to decifer just why Tebow QB is so devisive. As I read this back to myself, though, I’m afraid that any thread trying to illuminate this might have explosive potential, so it probably really should just be left alone.
Great post
Nice breakdown. It has given me a good insight as to why certain players were picked in ’09. Makes the Smith pick look a little more acceptable. (Still think it was quite a reach).
Gave it a rec (helps keep the mocks from taking over gives it the proper time to be up so members can read it)
Thanks for the Rec, ps
Here’s an article by Bill Walsh on how to scout QBs as a reward ;-)
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Great Link to the Walsh Articles
Any doubts about Walsh’s ability as an evaluator of talent should be quelled by this quote (circa 1997):
Now there is one more type of tight end — the great, all around type who is a Hall of Fame type. He is so gifted that he can do all of the things you would usually require two types of tight ends to do.
That type of player makes this a unique position in the NFL. One man who can do all these things, the great, all around tight end becomes the essence of the National Football League. And there have been very few — John Mackey, Mike Ditka, Jackie Smith, are the only two who have made the Hall of Fame.
Interestingly, I believe Tony Gonzalez of Cal this year has the potential to become that type of all around great tight end.
Isn't that great?
Then there’s the comment from Sid Gillman that says, essentially, with two good tight ends you can control the entire center of the field." Sid would know. The game has changed since them, but the point of his comment lives on. I’m a big fan of watching the skillset of TEs and finding the best. They can change the game in any number of ways.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Thanks Doc
It was a great read and very insightful.
Excellent read Em..
Loved it. though I didn’t much care for the religious/political debate/commentary within the post and in comments…tired of listening to any angle of that argument.
There is no way McD days a QB that is in the mold of Tim Tebow though. He likes the big, semi-mobile, pocket passer types. Look for a QB to be taken in the 5-7 rounds this year. It’s a Patriot thing, and I am sure it will become a McDaniels thing too.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
wow.....days=drafts Where was my mind there?!?
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
lol - don't know, Tim
I think that you’re right on the value pick. The one consideration I have is that we may or may not want to use that roster spot for other development and bring in a veteran Or both….grin
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Hey Doc, Great Read!!!!
Glad to see you haven’t lost one little step!
Can’t rec this enough, mate!
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
Excellent post, Emmett. Rec'd!
When I saw that you and Jeremy had both written posts, I thought that I had won the lottery! Exciting stuff!
I liked how you weaved the historical perspective into your story. I am one of those guys who remember the Chicago Cardinals and enjoy the aspect of how the NFL was built.
I did not realize that the % of 1st round QBs making it was so low. That’s about akin to being on the cover of Sports Illustrated. BTW there are some good QBs that are ranked in the 5,6,7 round range on the CBS Sports rankings.
Thanks for your time and energy. I already sent your post to my email files.
Thanks, BK - and thanks for the compliment
Much appreciated, my friend
In my experience, the single biggest problem in evaluation of QBs is the tendency to lock on to things that don’t matter that much in the NFL and to ignore things that are essential. It happens pretty much every year. To be fair, it’s certainly not limited to QBs. Look at the Jarvis Moss pick in Denver – Shanny (much as I still love the guy and will root for Wash to turn it around) saw a video tape that moss’ agent sent to him. He then ignored the scouting reports and took him at least a couple of rounds too soon, even trading up to make sure that he got him, even though interest in him wasn’t tht high and he had a bad illness and injury history, with lingering health issues and limited football practice or coaching. Al Davis does it pretty much every year. Heck, most franchises do it in degree – not all, just most.
That’s one reason that I support the process in Dove Valley as it’s laid out. You establish criteria. You don’t toss them because you get excited about someone who doesn’t fit your system. You look at how well that’s worked in New England over the past decade, and it’s obvious that they are hitting on more picks than the average team by a substantial margin. It’s the most recent attempt to beat the odds, reduce mistakes and win not just games, but championships. I give Belichick a lot of credit for this – he was an econ major, and he even consulted one of his professors on how to do this. He went to successful baseball and basketball teams and talked to their personnel people. He tried to take as much of the emotional baggage out of it and to focus on how to both manage the cap system over the long term and to win SBs will doing so.
It worked. It will be fascinating to see if it can be worked by McDaniels – frankly, if you look at the guys who went out from the Belichick system, none of them until McD was really suited to run his system anyway. McD has a math background, rather than strict econ, but he has Belichick’s system in his head and he’s working it. That’s why I’m a give it time guy – it isn’t meant to be an overnight success. That happened in the second year in NE, but a lot of things happened that were luck as well as a lot that were the benefits of the system. But from that point on, you could see that this organization was different and that it was finding substantial success. That’s what I’d like to see in Dove Valley, and I think that they’re on the right track.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Execellent analogy of what McD is looking for in players, rec'd indeed.
I see it and yet, you sqeezed it out in a fashion that only you could do. Thanks for that.
Excellent as always Em!
I love your writing style. Of all the great points in your article for MHR to take seriously, recognizing value picks and placing them in the context of your team’s mold seems to me to be the most important. It will take more than two drafts and FA periods for McD and Xanders to build this team’s identity, but we can already see the evolution beginning.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein
Thanks for the cite, Doc
Your support makes the young guys look good. I had been meaning to mention this in my own post, but you bring up too many great points here not to try to tie it in on what you’ve already said. I apologize in advance for the length.
Being a classic hoarder, I have years of old SI’s saved on my book shelf (until I went to college and quickly became too broke to pay for the subscription). Every once in a while I’ll pull one down and give it a look through. Recently, I read an article by Peter King (who I usually loathe) briefly chronicling Belichick’s days in Annapolis, Cleveland, and how he turned a Patriots team of overpaid underachievers into a perennial power and winner (at that time) of 3 of the last 4 Super Bowls. Some points that struck me:
. For those who don’t know, Belichick – like McDaniels was a coach’s son. From the age of 9 on, he sat in on Navy football meetings (of the Roger Staubach era) and listed for hours at a time to his father speak as a scout for the team. He’d also brake down film with his dad at home.
. Like McDaniels, Belichick – for years – had to deal with the stigma that he was more a product of Bill Parcell’s greatness than his own man. It took time (years) to prove that wrong.
. Belichick took stands early on in his coaching career in an effort to make sure his team was only comprised of people who bought into his philosophy. 8 games into the 1993 season, the Browns were 5-3 but star QB Bernie Kosar was complaining about the lack of aggression in the offense. Belichick cut Kosar and continued the rest of the season with the third-string QB. The Browns finished 1993 with a 7-9 record. In 1994 they were 11-5 and won a playoff game.
. After being fired from Cleveland and reuniting with Parcells with the Jets he famously walked away from the promotion to HC after Parcells left and instead chose to take the job with the Patriots. The article explains that Belichick believed that he may have only had one more shot to succeed as a HC and he wanted to be sure that whatever owner he worked under would buy into his vision and give him proper time. For those of you who don’t remember, during the Patriots quest for perfection – when the proverbial iron was hottest – McDaniels turned down head coaching interviews from Atlanta and Baltimore. The following year, could Bowlen have promised McDaniels the patience that many of us aren’t quite as willing to offer?
. Belichick was/is constantly picking the brains of coaches from across the world of sports. When the salary cap was introduced in the mid-90’s, Belichick reached out to Laker great Jerry West on how to produce a team built for perennial success when the salary cap was to be the great equalizer. West’s advice: “Develop your own players so you can manage salaries, and don’t buy into the one-player-at-any-cost mentality.”
. After being hired by the Patriots in 2000, Belichick researched over 200 free agents and bush-whacked a team 10M over the cap by bringing in other team’s misfits (think Kyle Orton) and role players (think Ronald Fields, Ryan McBean, Jabar Gaffney, Andra Davis, etc) to build his first Patriots team. In 2000, the Patriots went 5-11, the rest, as they say, is history. Former forgottens like Teddy Bruschi and Mike Vrabel became house-hold names.
. Finally, after the Patriots victory over the Panthers in SB XXXVIII, Belichick sought out the help of Jimmy Johnson – who had coached the Cowboys to back-to-back titles in in the early 90’s. His advice: “You’ve won two of the last three Super Bowls, and the problem with that is that everyone in the organization thinks they’re a bigger reason than they are for your winning.” “Quietly put incentives into the contracts of players you want to keep, don’t redo any contract until the last season of the deal and figure out who you can win without.”
Why am I mentioning this when McDaniels hasn’t even coached a winning season yet? It’s because I think he will. And when he does, it still won’t be over yet. McDaniels will have to remain cut-throat and keep his nose to the grindstone throughout his years in Denver – and I doubt he’ll have it any other way. We make fun of McD for being so much like Belichick with the coach-speak and smarter-than-thou attitude, but this is what you get too. It goes beyond a mold for QB’s or corners or any other position. It’s a breeding of an attitude, a style – that stick with your team no matter the influx of new and departing players. It takes a little while, but if you stick with it – it’s what leads to multiple titles and the ability to expect to be in the hunt year in and year out. I think we can all agree that that’s what we want. Again, sorry Doc for being so long-winded.
by Vortex7 on Mar 7, 2010 1:11 PM MST reply actions 10 recs
excellent addition vortex
thanks for giving us a deeper insight into the man who trained McDaniels
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
Rec'd back at you ;-)
I talked a little about the smae area in Tales of Josh McDaniels and Bill Belichik. It had Part 1 and Part 2
Your work was a great help – I was afraid of turning the article into an0ther encyclopedia, but you again did better than I could. Thanks for helping and for the great addition
Doc
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Emmett
Once again, I’m late to this site. My other life limits me some.
But you do a captivating job of analyzing the many aspects of NFL football.
I agree with pretty much everything you say and have also been attacked for it.
I don’t think any of the QBs this year are worth a high draft pick for our system.
If Brandstater isn’t ideal it isn’t because of the physical or scoutable aspects of his game.
But the ability to Rapidly Process Information, even for geniuses, is both innate and acquired. It will take at least another year to see what we have. (BTW if Orton holds out during OTAs, etc. we may get a earlier glimpse of TBs development than expected).
I, like you and Vortex7 (another good response IMO), like what I see so far in McD. To think a team like the Broncos of 2008 can become a Superbowl contender with a player or two was fantasy football at its worst. Even our good players did not seem to have the quality to develop into an elite team. (When I saw Cutler, my darling at the time, yawn several times while the defense was on the field in a close game in 2008, I experienced a panic that would not go away).
There are many more articles you could write, Emmett, about QBs not to mention evaluation of players at other positions.
For instance, to what extent does the craziness that accompanies the outrageous contracts and up front money to high draftees contribute to their free fall. The owners may have something in their concept that all draftees are paid to a much more modest scale while entering the NFL. Then development becomes more important than image, privilege, or ‘respect’ – the bane of the rookie ‘stars’.
Your view on McD approach to evaluating talent is IMO right on. I expect the Broncos to improve over the next years in stages that will become more and more comfortable.
Many will be impatient, especially the arrogant and immature – ironically those who most readily label McD as “arrogant” and “immature” – and while they turn me off, life is full of the “know it alls”. There is an old saw that goes: “The more you learn, the more you realize that there is much you do not know; the less you know, the more you think you know everything!” The Dener Post site is full of the second of these. You, Emmett and Vortex, impress me as more of the former. At least you increase my knowledge of and appreciation of the game. I thank you.
by ivanthenotsobad on Mar 7, 2010 3:55 PM MST reply actions 6 recs
What a kind and thoughtful comment
Thank you, Ivan. While various factors now limit my ability to write as much as I’d like to, the fact that folks like yourself, ncm, V7, bradley. BShrout and too many others to list (please forgive me for that, if I didn’t list you) get something helpful out of the work makes my day.
BTW if Orton holds out during OTAs, etc. we may get a earlier glimpse of TBs development than expected
Now, that’s interesting. My impression of Orton is that he tends to accept what simply IS and moves on. He knows that if he performs at a high level, that next contract may make up for this short term interruption in his financial career, but I’m pretty open to that not being the case. I suspect, but cannot prove, that he will recognize that coming in and playing well (which means not missing an opportunity to improve in a TC setting) is the best revenge. Even if he doesn’t get the dough this year and there is a lockout in 2011, if he plays well in 2010 he’s a free agent and can sample the market in 2012 – and leave, if someone values him more than Denver. I will continue to hope that there is not lockout – No one wins if there is. The fans lose, the players lose and even the owners lose. They may be willing to lose short term to impose their will, and if so, that’s a shame for the good of the game.
In the owners defense, though, I do agree that a rookie salary cap and/or scale is a positive and rational concept to add to the CBA. Very young men, fresh out of college, with hordes of money and posses of ‘friends’ as well as family and hangers on can get in a lot of trouble very fast. We all know stories of players who play to get the big contract and then tank. As far as a story on such players, Kaptain Kirk writes the best information on the owners, players and contracts as well as rules of this and that part of the game. I’d love to see an article on that from him.
Finally, your droll comment on the folks who labeled McD as arrogant and immature turning out to be arrogant and immature had me laughing so hard that Herself came in to see what was wrong with me ;-). Herself pointed this out – it reminded her and me of an old proverb -
You can only see your own level of consciousness. Those who see evil under every leaf see what they fear in themselves. Those who see bountiful joy in life also see what is in their own true heart. And you’re right – the more I learn, the less that I think I know. There is a real sense of peace in reaching that stage. You don’t need to know it all because it’s impossible – so why be concerned? There is a kind of quietly joyful surrender in this that.
I don’t know when I’ll be able to put an article together again, but thank you for your ideas, your support and your comments, which I always look forward to. You know, they are so good that one is tempted to think that you’d write some pretty good articles yourself (Hint, hint,…;-) ). “My other life limits me some.” I understand completely, Ivan. I have the same thing to work around. Good to talk with you. Feel free to drop some football talk on em-smith@hotmail.com. Sometimes it’s easier than writing articles – shorter, but equally pleasurable.
Be well, my friend.
Doc
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
by Doc Bear on Mar 7, 2010 4:24 PM MST reply actions 3 recs
Emmett
I agree that Orton is probably unlikely to skip OTAs etc. It doesn’t suit his temperment among other things. But the general knee jerk reaction to the massive RFA tenders was to say that RFA’s would hold out, indicating that he players will hold out for contracts with the old Guaranteed money and Up Front loaded contracts.
That might be an ingredient in the tentative approach to agreements that seems to be in the air (Hadnot, Pasho, Marshall). IMO there’s a gab between the amount of Guaranteed Money and Up Front Money (signing bonuses, etc.) that players want and owners are willing to give. IMO there might not be the massive action in the FA market that some think.
About the other stuff. At this point, I’m not in a position to be a resource of information and studied opinions that you are and many others. It is both my “other life” and my lack of inclination (and probably ability) to do the dogged research that you (and others) do. I have opinions, feelings and occasionally insights; but they are often in response to what you do. Maybe someday I’ll be able to do more. But for now, I’ll respond and react to what you (and others) do and feel very good about it.
It appears (reading between the lines) from comments that you have health concerns. If true, my very best wishes. I’d like to be considered your friend. It would be an honor.
Well for sure, the more I read of your articles the more I realize How little I know…but always more than the last time.
Good input V7 and Ivan.
The arrogant label that some have assigned to McDaniels doesn’t seem right to me. I think you have to know someone personally to insinuate that they are arrogant. Having a large ego is another story. I believe that 16 coaches have been inducted into the HOF since 1971 and can someone name one not possessing a huge ego?
Stay well, Doc.
Luv ya’
Cheryl
by St. James Bronc on Mar 7, 2010 11:01 PM MST up reply actions
I always bring this up
but when people talk about arrogance, especially in someone as obviusly talented and motivated as McD, and his line of work, I am reminded of a line from a movie, delivered in the name of cardiac surgery pioneer Alfred Blalock:
“It takes arrogance to cut someone with a scalpel to save their life.”
There's a big hard sun, beating on the big people, in the big hard world.
formerly Styg-like
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 8, 2010 12:36 PM MST up reply actions
i love that one too
I’ll have to remember the name …Al Blal ock …got it
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 8, 2010 6:34 PM MST up reply actions
Thank you Emmett
for sharing this with us.
One of the most informative and enjoyable reads about any sport for quite sometime.
by SteveUK on Mar 8, 2010 1:37 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Well spoken, my good man.
It is always great to read your insights into the football world, and the world in general. Anyone who is familiar with your body of work here at MHR knows that your philosophy is never dime store, but rather it is offered free of charge.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
Philip K. Dick
It's a pleasure to write for you
And anyone who reads and quotes Phillip K. Dick is aces in my book.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
Thanks Doc, Always a Pleasure...
As one of my Favorite writers of all things Broncos, physiology, and Life in general,
You have been Missed, and as I see I am no alone. Be well my Friend.
You can only see your own level of consciousness.
You come in alone, you go out alone, and everything in between is experence, to
color as you well…
Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM
by UB3 on Mar 8, 2010 2:53 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
This is why I love this site
This is by far one of the most in depth and intelligent works I have read anywhere.
The attributes that make a QB great in this game are easy to identify and even harder to truly quantify, but I see a lot of genius in the way the Patriots (or Belichick) have been able to do so. I think that is what will make McDaniels a success or failure in the end; whether he is able to create a system that utilizes talent and is able to develop it (mainly Kyle Orton).
Emmit I learn tons of great football information from you and I wish you well in all things!
Also I leave you with this…I was watching the stars, thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said…“I drank what?”
LOL
Loved that one, DBP. Glad that you enjoy the work. It’s a pleasure to serve.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...

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