Free Agent Profile: Nose Tackle Jamal Williams
by Sayre Bedinger on Mar 8, 2010 3:42 PM MST
149 comments
Some moves just make a ton of sense. The Broncos need depth at nose tackle, and their defensive line coach (Wayne Nunnely) is but a year removed from the San Diego Chargers. So what does Denver do when the Chargers' primary nose tackle becomes available?
Jamal Williams has terrorized the Broncos for plenty of years with San Diego, and now might be donning the orange and blue by days end. Mike Lombardi over at the National Football Post is reporting (via our own Tim Lynch) that Williams is in Denver taking a physical, and while he has another visit with New Orleans later this week, Denver may not let him make that visit.
Williams is a 34 year old nose tackle, entering his 13th season in the NFL. The Broncos have already added one defensive lineman in free agency with Justin Bannan coming over from Baltimore, and Williams could soon follow. More after the jump...
Jamal Williams was born April 28th, 1976 in Washington, D.C. He is the eldest of seven children, and at Archbishop High School was an All-Met selection as...brace yourselves...a 6'3" 255 pound linebacker. He was named as a super-prep All-American in 1994, and earned a scholarship to Oklahoma State University.
After spending a year at OSU, Williams transferred to Kemper Military School/Junior College, then back to OSU where he became an All-Big 12 selection.
Drafted in the second round of the 1998 supplemental draft by the San Diego Chargers, Williams has had quite an up and down career. Not that his play is inconsistent, the man has had plenty of nicks to slow down his playing career, though he is both a three-time Pro Bowl selection, and has been named to three All-Pro teams.
Scouting Report (via San Diego Chargers official website)
Regarded by many as one of the top defensive tackles in the NFL today, three-time Pro Bowl nose tackle Jamal Williams leads the Chargers’ defensive front and run defense.
Year-in and year-out, the Chargers’ defensive line has been one of the NFL’s best. 2008 was no exception as the Chargers ranked 11th in the NFL in run defense, missing out on cracking the top 10 by just 1.3 yards per game. In seven of Williams’ 12 seasons in San Diego, the Chargers have ranked in the league’s Top 10 in rushing defense, including league-leading seasons in 1998 and 2005. Only twice during his Chargers’ tenure has the unit ranked below 11th in the league’s final rankings.
Williams has been a warrior throughout his career. In 2008, he played in all 16 games and made 15 starts. Since 2003, he’s only missed four games due to injury, despite playing one of the most dangerous and physically demanding positions on the field. To understand his toughness, one only needs to look back at the 2007 season when he had arthroscopic procedures done on both of his knees during the team’s bye week and missed just one game following the operations before returning to the field. Williams also battled through a high ankle sprain during the ’07playoffs that would have kept most players out of action. Instead, he was right in the mix helping the Chargers advance to the AFC Championship Game.
Despite being one of the most experienced veterans on the team, Williams takes nothing for granted. Every year in training camp, the mammoth defensive tackle refuses to post a nameplate on his locker stall at Chargers Park. In an old ritual, Williams refuses to have his name on his locker until he’s officially made the team, forcing the team’s equipment staff to re-order a new nameplate for big No. 76 at the start of each regular season.
Williams is widely regarded as one of the toughest and most physically-imposing defensive tackles in the NFL. It’s natural, considering he comes from a family in which he was the second oldest of seven boys all raised by his mother, Harriet, a single parent. She is now retired, but spent years working as a correctional officer at a juvenile facility in Louisville, Kentucky. Jamal is the only player on the roster who carries a dumbbell with him to every team meeting so he can knock out a few curls while watching tape and studying his playbook.
Williams would be a nice fit with the Denver Broncos. His former defensive line coach in San Diego, Wayne Nunnely, is currently part of the Broncos' staff, so the Broncos have that going for them. Denver can also offer Williams a rotational role, something that might make him more effective in terms of staying healthy for a full season.
If Williams is added, the Broncos could be getting the 2010 defensive line version of Brian Dawkins last year...
In addition, former Patriots defensive lineman Jarvis Green is also heading to Denver for a visit, per Mike Reiss. The Broncos are certainly looking to get bigger on the defensive line...
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Seems like the Broncos have a history......
of signing “aged” D-linemen; this history extends well back into the Shanny era. I’m not sure if I think it is a good idea for McD to continue this trend. I’m ok with it as long as we still look to find a solid young DT, most likely through the draft, and not just do this year-after-year.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
by bonaire on Mar 8, 2010 3:54 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
actually this goes with the patriot way.
Sign good vets for a few years, draft some rookies and when the vets times are up the young guys will take over.
by Skotty on Mar 8, 2010 4:01 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, Veteran to help the young NT prospects is nice
But I have serious questions about his health. 13 years in the NFL as a NT really wears on the body, especially the knees. It would be nice to have someone with so much experience work with the likes of Thomas, Powell, Baker, etc.
It may help that we do have these younger guys on our team to help out in rotation but I wonder how much Williams still has in the tank. The Broncos did this last year in the secondary with the likes of Dawkins, Hill, and Goodman but I was much more comfortable having them come in and start than Williams.
Agreed....
It just seems (with no supporting evidence from me) that the D-line guys that are older usually don’t have much left i the tank. Maybe that is skewed from my impression of the Broncos history of trying older D-line guys.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
If I remember correctly...
many of those older D-lineman were way too far past their Prime, i.e. Sam Adams.
and some just didn’t have much in the tank to begin with, i.e. the Browncos.
But I do remember, uh, help me out here, I’m having a senior moment, XXX from the Chiefs giving us a couple of good years during the Super Bowl years.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Mar 8, 2010 5:03 PM MST up reply actions
It is rare indeed when a team can sign a good UFA D-linemen in his prime. When this happens, those players tend to get contracts like the one Peppers or Haynesworth signed in the last two years.
The only thing more rare than a good UFA D-linemen in his prime is a good UFA LT or QB in his prime.
These things rarely happen and when they do, it is damn expensive. UFA for D-linemen usually involves signing aging vets like J Williams or unheralded backups like Fields or Lionel Dalton. Lot of misses with the few hits.
In my opinion.
Thanks, A Mile High.
H-m-m-m-m. Now that I read what I just wrote, it sounds like some line out of a Cheech & Chong movie.
But thanks anyway, AMH.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Mar 8, 2010 5:17 PM MST up reply actions
I always think of him as a life long Bronco...
where was he first? Bengals?
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
bonaire, I can see what McD/X/Wink is trying to do here,
and as McGeorge stated, NT’s don’t just fall off the tree without a price. We (McD/X) brought in veterans like BDawk and Hill knowing that we would draft safeties (Bruton&McBath) and corners (A Smith&Goodman). I believe over time that will pay back in dividends. There wasn’t a big splash of NT’s in free agency last year and probably the reason for getting Ronnie Fields, who had played in a backup role in San Fran under Mike Nolan. For his first year in the starting role I think he did pretty well for us, but not great and that is why we need to upgrade the position. If we land Jamal Williams it will again upgrade the defense from day one, but because of his age he will need to be in a rotational role to cut the wear and tear of the whole season.
Now that we have Bannan on board along with McBean, Thomas, Baker, Peterson and Fields, we have more depth that was lacking in the end. That was probably why we got run on so much down the stretch and as we see what McD is doing so far, clearly he is trying to get the holes plugged. We stop the run and force the opponent to pass and it’s check-mate…
The way free agency is going right now may be an indication of a cornerback taken early (Joe Haden) or somebody else later on. I’m just not convinced that McD/X will pick one in the first. We’ll have to wait and see.
by bfree2bronc on Mar 8, 2010 6:24 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Well stated....
I do like the depth we are adding. Now we just need to groom a stud to go along with the depth.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
Baker/Parker/Thomas?
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Niel Smith v 2.0
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions trolls. In all odds they probably just want to learn. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one (unless you're a resident of WCG).
^Needs further explaining: I have yet to post anything on WCG, don't worry, I'm not trying to rationalize anything I've done. I've just lurked over there and man, they are the model of post-peloponnesian war Athens.
It all hinges on that physical.
We need to take a good long look at those knees and the repaired bicep. He needs to know he would be in rotation with what looks to be up to three? NT. Possibly another from the draft in Williams. I’m pretty tempted to be somewhat excited about it. But we’ve all been down that road before, not holding my breath. IF we take him, we better make sure its a possitive move. Fine line.
Skitty
Great Post and it is exactly what McD is doing. Look at last year with B Dawk and R Hill at Safety and then we draft 2 young safeties in McBath and Bruton, same for A Smith with Goodman/Champ at corner. I think we bring in veteran D-Lineman and we will draft a d -ineman or 2 to learn behind the vets.
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
yeah... what he said
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Mar 9, 2010 12:27 AM MST up reply actions
Another football blob.
That’s one thing I liked about Shanahan: He favored athletes -not merely beef. Announcers always talked about the “small” bronco players but the truth is, they were always as big and strong as anybody. They just didn’t tend to weigh as much because they were in football shape. Sure it is difficult to push a great big blubbery lineman out of the way but these types come at a cost. While others can’t move them, neither can they move themselves. If all you need is an immovable row of beef, go hire some sumo wrestlers but if you want to pay millions of dollars for athletes, then hire athletes.
i like beef...just not old crusty beef
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
I don’t know if your avatar
is actually a picture of you and even if it is, I have no idea how tall you may be. Even so, if that is indeed you, I am quite confident that you weigh less –perhaps way less than 200 pounds. Beside anchoring a rope pull team, can you think of any ANY physical activity you would be better at if you were to gain say 30 pounds?
He would be better at football and any other sport where power/strength is a key ingredient in success.
Seeing as how Jamal Williams has been the premier NT for the last decade, my guess is the man is rather powerful. His on field excellence would also suggest he is a decent athlete.
In my opinion.
Thank you McGeorge
Warmick, no this would not be a monumental signing, but if the guy can pass a physical he can probably give us a good year or two. We’re talking about one of the best NT’s this past decade. Clearly past his prime but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be a great situational player and teacher. There is nothing not to like about this IMO.
To your point about beef, do you think a super strong and fast NT would be good at a lean 250 lbs? Me either.
by OC Bronco Fan on Mar 8, 2010 5:11 PM MST up reply actions
Warmick has a very strong distaste for blubber...lol
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!
by BroncoSense72 on Mar 8, 2010 5:19 PM MST up reply actions
That proves nothing
He would be better at football and any other sport where power/strength is a key ingredient in success.
Tim Lynch (or anyone) could gain 30 pounds without gaining one iota of “power/strength.”
Seeing as how Jamal Williams has been the premier NT for the last decade, my guess is the man is rather powerful. His on field excellence would also suggest he is a decent athlete.
So? No matter how good he has been, it is my contention he could have been much better if he had been in shape.
Warmick, no this would not be a monumental signing.
Actually, that is the one thing it WOULD be. :)
To your point about beef, do you think a super strong and fast NT would be good at a lean 250 lbs?
The same super strong and fast NT would be stronger and faster at 250 lbs. than he is at 300 plus pounds.
There's a point of diminishing returns, though
Obviously, that’s why you don’t see any 160 pound linemen anymore. At some point in the game of football, size matters. Obviously, solid size is important too. I’m always nostalgic for our “smaller, quicker” offensive linemen, but the game of football is cyclical. Other teams find ways to counter the smaller athletic linemen, and we have to adapt to their adaptation or we will be left behind. The best example I can remember of this recently was Shaun Rogers throwing our whole interior line around like a father playing with his 6 year olds in the Lions game at Detroit two years ago.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
You are distorting the argument
Yes. Certainly a big lineman is better than a small lineman but that is assuming they both are in shape (or not). A big lineman in shape, however, is a better athlete and a superior player than is his identical but overweight twin.
I'm not distorting the argument, I focused on this statement:
“The same super strong and fast NT would be stronger and faster at 250 lbs. than he is at 300 plus pounds.”
And my point is, at some point more weight is a plus. the same super strong and fast NT at 200 pounds would be a liability. There has to be a ‘line in the sand’ somewhere.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
It's all relative fellas!
If the league has 300 pound offensive linemen the defense needs 300 pound nose tackles.
If the league has 250 pound offensive linemen the defense could get away with 250 pound nose tackles.
The point is creating the most advantageous match-up possible and the defense is usually stuck with reacting (it’s kind of their nature).
Over the long haul, a 300 pound offensive linemen would win more battles against 250 nose tackles than 300 pound nose tackles. It’s physics maaaaaaaan.
But I digress and in my opinion, the specific weight of the individual is not as relevant as the relative weight. Ideally speaking, the point is you want to minimize the impact weight has so it is not an advantage or disadvantage for either side so the best football players can win, not necessarily the biggest.
Would that be too much to ask for?
My roots are in Denver and my branches in Nebraska.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Mar 9, 2010 1:41 AM MST up reply actions
Actually,
my lanky frame allows me to run long distances, play basketball, baseball, softball, and football. I like being athletic. If I weighed 30 pounds more, my options would be far more limited than they are now.
Just sayin. I weight between 165-175 depending on the day….
So I guess we are in agreement. Did you notice the Baretta on my hat…I have other talents. :P
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Strangly, I find myself agreeing with warmick.
I liked those more athletic and in shape D-lines. Broncos and NFL history is full of great, “smaller” defensive lineman. It’s not the size so much as the talent (and heart).
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Mar 8, 2010 4:27 PM MST up reply actions
I like to think so.
But I could be wrong, lol.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Mar 8, 2010 4:39 PM MST up reply actions
Jay Ratliff
For Dallas plays NT at just over 300 pounds. While by any other standards he would be huge (considered obese by some) he is considered small for a NT. But every year he makes the pro bowl because he gets great leverage and uses his balance at a low center of gravity well. He also has “short area quickness” meaning he is up to speed in a few steps.
"No more my bad just make the play"-McJedi
by RockyMountainThunder on Mar 8, 2010 4:32 PM MST up reply actions
I seem to remember in our first Super Bowl win
that the vaunted Green Bay defense was anchored by the HUGE Gilbert Brown, whom the smaller more athletic Bronco OLine ran into the ground.
Be that at is may, I’m very concerned about Jamal’s knees/ankles/heels being able to hold up. Did he even play the in the Monday Nighter in San Diego last season?
When he’s in there, he is a force, but how long can he stay in?
"It's all over Fat Man" - Tom Jackson to John Madden 1977 AFC Championship Game
RIP Barrel Man - 12/5/09
by DesertBroncoFan on Mar 8, 2010 4:30 PM MST up reply actions
It also helped having one of the greatest running backs of all time, OF ALL TIME, KANYE!
"No more my bad just make the play"-McJedi
by RockyMountainThunder on Mar 8, 2010 4:36 PM MST up reply actions
No, he was out
Did he even play the in the Monday Nighter in San Diego last season?
At the time, SD was struggling. They didn’t have a way to replace Williams at first, but soon found that a rotation of 3 players – none of whom was a ‘traditional’ NT, in the sense that many fans think of the position, with each being much lighter – became so effective that SD didn’t lose a game in November and December. It’s an option for them again. They are also trying to get Vaughn Martin, at 320, ready to play on the DL. He’s currently listed as a DE, while local feel-good story Ogemdi Nwagbuo joins with Travis Johnson and Ian Scott, with Ryon Bingham as a DE as well as Jacques Cesaire and Luis Casillo. They also brought on Antonio Caray.
The point that this is getting to is two-fold. They consider Williams expensive and injury-prone. He is also aging, so while he might have a good year left, he’s not a good value for them. The rotational approach to the DL worked so well that they might use it again, and I think that they hope that Martin, down from around 350 to his current 320 will be able to move into the NT at some point. They are currently listing him as a DE, but that might change in training camp.
In the mean time, Denver might get a year or even two from him, but his history of injury is mounting. He could work in a rotation, but we also need to look at how to work the position if he misses several games.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
This is fairly accurate
The Chargers are headed towards a pure rotation on the DL. How successful it can be I have no idea. Right now locks for the 2010 roster on the D Line include Castillo, Boone, Nwagbuo, Travis Johnson, and V. Martin.
Two under achieving first day picks, two extremely raw projects, and the vet Boone on that list, and no one has played any significant NT. Ironically Boone cut by KC was the best of the scrub DL last year.
Just a thought... (perhaps phrased as a question?)
This is based on another comment I saw that compared the possible Williams signing this year to the Dawkins signing last year – in the sense of their leadership and willingness/ability to mentor younger players.
Although it would be disappointing if (or when) Dawkins/Williams get injured and miss some games, but in terms of cost/benefit could it be a safe to assume that the benefit of their leadership/mentoring ability is the attribute that makes the risk of signing a Dawkins/Williams worth the cost of injury?
I do know more about Dawkins than Williams, but what I want to know is if Williams does indeed possess some of the same “awesomness” as Dawkins?
My roots are in Denver, but my branches grew in Nebraska and my leaves fell in Lincoln.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Mar 9, 2010 1:59 AM MST up reply actions
Oh yeah, athletes like Courtney Brown, Sam Adams, Jimmie Kennedy
Gerard Warren, Chester McGlockton…need I go on?
In the beginning Shanny hit paydirt with Williams, Neil Smith and my favorite Jumpy Geathers (who can forget his “Forklift” move?). But those were pushed hard for by Greg Robinson. I remember Shanny was not all for adding Neil Smith in the beginning, but he lost Chester McGlockton to KC when he jumped from Oakland. Imagine that, Shanny wanted old, fat, takes plays off Chester over Neil Smith.
Make those miracles happen - Jon Keyworth
by IgorBStrange on Mar 9, 2010 2:50 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Bleh. Not sure I like the San Diego Propaganda machine, errr, team website as a source. lol
Name one aged DLineman that has worked out for the Broncos in this century.
I heard Brian Dawkins name being mentioned in my previous fanshot, but BDawk is not an aged DLineman…I was being specific. :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
I don't know
about Jamal Williams’s condition in particular, but nose tackles tend to play until they are pretty old. Williams is 33, I believe. The Steelers just franchised Casey Hampton, who is 33, as did the Packers with Pickett, who is 31. Kelly Gregg is still an elite guy with the Ravens at 33.
I don’t think the Broncos track record with aging d-linemen is very relavant for two reasons:
1. The obvious, it’s a different administration
2. Perhaps the more signficant, the Broncos haven’t been running the same defense, hence the aging linemen in the past haven’t been aging nose tackles.
I’m still sad that we went long with Gerrard Warren and let go of Trevor Pryce.
Big mistake…. Huge mistake.
In my opinion.
by McGeorge on Mar 8, 2010 5:03 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Me too
Big stupidity letting go of TP
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
Warren was vastly underrated here, IMO.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
big money was a big flop.
way overrated!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Best D-lineman on our 13-3 team.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Our best D of this decade
came in the two years when Warren anchored the middle of our line. If we could have kept Trevor AND added Warren, that woulda been stellar
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Mar 8, 2010 6:28 PM MST up reply actions
Vonnie Holliday wasn't horrible.
He was by no means great, but he wasn’t terrible. And are you really telling me you didn’t like Sam Adams and the incomparable Simeon Rice!?!? ;)
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Neil Smith
Acquired from Kansas City in 1997 at age 31. Started 13 games for the Broncos. Logged 8.5 sacks. NFL.com does not show tackle statistics prior to 2001. Was part of the defense that helped the Broncos win their first Super Bowl. Had 3 sacks in the playoffs. Made the Pro Bowl team that year.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
Shanny hit that one out of the park
so to speak
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 8, 2010 9:31 PM MST up reply actions
One failure does not predict another failure
Daryl Gardner not panning out as a Bronco has no relevance to Jamal Williams. They are two completely unrelated people and circumstances that only have significance because they may both have been a Bronco player.
Success or failure for one person does not predict success or failure for another person. McDaniels’ success as a coach can not be predicted based on the success rate of any previous coach. McDaniels is not Shanahan or Wade or Reeves. His style, the circumstances surrounding his tenure, and the league as a whole will be a better predictor of success.
The same is true for Jamal Williams. He may not work out. He may be injured, past his prime, or be in a system that highlights his strengths, but no previous bust of a free agent signing is a predictor of his future success or failure.
A blanket statement such as all RBs are unproductive after the age of thirty is not necessarily true. Thomas Jones is over thirty and he was successful this past year. Each player can only be evaluated on the strengths and weaknesses they possess.
by D-fence on Mar 8, 2010 9:32 PM MST up reply actions 6 recs
+2
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
"Brandon Marshall isn't as good as you think he is." - a random hobo I met
by Tempestuous Binary on Mar 9, 2010 3:35 AM MST up reply actions
Go Green
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by kentuckybronco on Mar 9, 2010 3:01 PM MST up reply actions
jamal williams is no sam adams.
look th guy was a pro-bowler. Had a tricep injury, so his legs are fine, and with a years rest. I think he could be a good pick-up and would be an instant upgrade.
We Don't know that his legs are fine
He did after all just have knee surgery in 2007 I think it was.
I don't think this move is for a starting NT
This is a guy who can be great for our d-line corps as a rotational guy and a back-up…I like this signing if we get him. It makes a great deal of sense and improves an area where we need help.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
true but are we going after any starting quality players?
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 8, 2010 5:30 PM MST up reply actions
Are there any starting quality players to go after?
I think we have to wait for the draft to answer this question, because it doesn’t look like there any in FA.
You forget our roster
We have a VERY young D-line group as it is. They take time to develop and some should start showing us something this year (I’m looking at you Baker).
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
and the rotation could limit his exposure to injury...
bonus
My roots are in Denver, but my branches grew in Nebraska and my leaves fell in Lincoln.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Mar 9, 2010 2:02 AM MST up reply actions
Besides last years triceps injury
Jamal Williams has battled to play in most of his games every year. Maybe the year of did his knees some good. IDK
"No more my bad just make the play"-McJedi
by RockyMountainThunder on Mar 8, 2010 4:34 PM MST reply actions
Jamal Williams
One healthy Jamal Williams can be the best thing to happen for Broncos D-Line till Baker is ready. Rotating Fields, Williams, Thomas, Parker, and developing Baker can be exactly what the Broncos need for next season. Lke the idea hope to see that we sign Williams to 2-year contract. Would only help the D-Line for 2010
oc60
If he passes the physical I say sign him.
He would be a very good upgrade and is likely the best option we have for improving the rush defense. Green wouldn’t make us any bigger on the line, but would add some much needed depth at DE. I think if we get these guys with the recent addition of Bannon, we will have taken a good step to improving the Defense. My real concerns are mainly regarding the O-line still. There seems to be very limited options at center in free agency and the depth across the line appears very weak. I wonder if Bobbie Williams/OG from Cincy is on the radar? At least it appears the FO is working to improving the areas that evidently need help.
"If we cannot find a way, we will make a new one." -Hannibal
by AvalancheRescueDog on Mar 8, 2010 4:53 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
I’ve read that NT is a good position for aging players since it is not about quickness, but rather strength and size.
I would think players lose speed before they lose their power. I’m not a Dr.
I’m excited. McX does their best work in March.
In my opinion.
by McGeorge on Mar 8, 2010 4:55 PM MST reply actions 3 recs
But, a MUCH better attitude that also knows the system!
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!
by BroncoSense72 on Mar 8, 2010 5:20 PM MST up reply actions
If he had a great attitude or was indispensible, he’d still be in NE.
BTW: I don’t think either Scheff or Watson belong in Denver. Receiving TEs don’t fit the system. I think we are better off drafting a guy like Jordan Shipley or Brisco, then giving that PT to a misfit like Scheff or Watson.
In my opinion.
I'm with you
makes room for other roster additions and contracts you won’t be tied to for years. Downside being whether a rook would be battle ready as much as Watson (or similar) is .
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on Mar 8, 2010 5:50 PM MST up reply actions
I'm not sure if I totally agree with that McGeorge:
Receiving TEs don’t fit the system
If I remember right D Graham and Scheff were used quite abit. Just not as much as say the Colts or Chargers maybe, but still used.
Watson had 29 receptions in 2009 for 404 yds 13.9 ypc and 5 TD's
That doesn’t seem that bad to me for a TE.
Tony Scheffler 2009:
31 catches, 416 yards, 13.4 ypc and 2 TDs. Tony Scheffer = Ben Watson
Remember, Denver didn’t score many TDs in 2009.
In my opinion.
So, if we trade Sheff and pick up Watson it would be an impasse sorta..
Bottom line is the guy has to be able to block and catch, with blocking as a priority.
i love scheff but if he aint fittin here watson would be excellent
And who sez “receiving tight ends don’t fit the system”? What a load of crap. The system changes with the game plan.
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 8, 2010 9:40 PM MST up reply actions
Sums it up.
There were a lot of games where great effort was made to get Scheff involved— and at least one game plan (SD 1) built around him. There were also times this year where Watson was a key component of the NE game plan, others where he wasn’t. There is a role for the receiving TE on this team.
From what I’ve read, NE wants both Green and Watson back, just at a reduced price.
That said, it looks like the Watson to Denver stuff was a false rumor anyway. He’s scheduled in Seattle then Cleveland, and no Denver as of yet.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 8, 2010 10:31 PM MST up reply actions
One of the roles for a receiving tight end in this system is...
exposing mismatches with opposing linebackers/safeties… just as we did against S.D. like you mentioned.
Actually… isn’t this every position’s role in this system? Isn’t creating mismatches part of McDaniels’ paradigm?
My roots are in Denver, but my branches grew in Nebraska and my leaves fell in Lincoln.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Mar 9, 2010 2:22 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah
I really expected Denver to make a run at Watson. Maybe they will if the market settles in the right range and he doesn’t sign someplace else.
If not, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they picked another TE relatively early in the draft.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 9, 2010 7:26 AM MST up reply actions
The thing that stands out to me is the TD to reception ratio
Watson scores a TD about every 6 catches.
Scheffler scores a TD about every 15 catches.
Is Watson just more of a redzone threat or what?
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by kentuckybronco on Mar 8, 2010 9:05 PM MST up reply actions
He's just a better all around football player.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 8, 2010 10:32 PM MST up reply actions
Slightly better, def older and probably two to three times as expensive.
Awesome. Let’s sign him.
In my opinion.
I'm thinking Watson...
…will be taking a pay cut where ever he lands. If it takes elite TE money to sign him, then I’d agree.
But I think Denver will replace the Scheffler skill set. They wanted more out of him in the passing game than they got.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 9, 2010 11:03 AM MST up reply actions
I'd agree with you, that is.
As in, I don’t think he’s worth huge money.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 9, 2010 11:04 AM MST up reply actions
disagree completely
Watson is a worse player than sheffler. He may be a touch faster (at least he was when he was younger, when he had screamin speed), but he drops too many passes, can’t block to save his life (same as Scheff), and isn’t as quick in and out of breaks. The only thing he has over Scheff is less attitude.
Watson got way overrated by being a receiving threat on some evry good NE offenses in the mid-2000s… but he is not that special a player by any stretch of the imagination. If you can work something out to keep Scheff happy, he is a much better player on the field, particulalry on a cost/value basis.
I tend to think Scheffler...
…is probably the most overrated fan favorite in all my years following the Broncos.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 9, 2010 11:06 AM MST up reply actions
I'll agree with that too...
as he’s very one-dimensional…. he was basically a mediocre #3 big wide-receiver. The same thing we’d be getting in Watson.
Like I said above...
…I’m not hot on throwing huge money at Watson.
But at reasonable money, he does come with system knowledge, some blocking ability, and has the tools to be a match up problem where warranted.
It’s not that Denver didn’t try to utililize Scheff— its that he wasn’t very effective. My gut tells me he had— by far— the most incomplete targets in the end zone on the team last year (or at least the highest percentage). I can also come up with a handful of huge, ill timed drops just off the top of my head.
He wasn’t the problem, but he certainly didn’t do much when given a chance to be a solution.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-- Oscar Wilde
by PredominantlyOrange on Mar 9, 2010 11:18 AM MST up reply actions
The TD to reception ratio is a by product of our crappy red zone offense and Orton vs what they have in NE with Brady.
If you think Scheff was the problem, you got that all wrong.
In my opinion.
Absolutely, the redzone offenses played a part in it.
That definitely factors into it.
I’m not very familiar with Watson, except for the few times I’ve seen him play. Whether or not he is better than Scheffler, I don’t know. I don’t feel comfortable enough with him to make a definite opinion on him.
Just looking at the stats, though, that was the only real difference between the two players. I was trying to find some difference between them. The receptions and yards were just about the same, as were the YPC. The TDs were the biggest difference.
When the Pats get down in the redzone, they have Welker/Edelman and Moss, along with Maroney and Faulk. All of them are good in the redzone, so for Watson to have 5 TDs last season on 29 receptions, is pretty impressive, according to the stat sheet. I’ll definitely check out some film, though, and see how impressive or unimpressive it actually was. Just from looking on paper, it seems pretty nice.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by kentuckybronco on Mar 9, 2010 9:54 AM MST up reply actions
Oops...Sorry, forgot
-Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit - it's when things seem worst that you must not quit!
by BroncoSense72 on Mar 8, 2010 5:22 PM MST up reply actions
He's a much better blocker than Scheff
I watched a lot of film no him last year – he blocks well and has good hands. He played well for McD.
Don't say rebuild - say reload...
They why are the Pats letting him leave? The knock on him has always been that he is not a great or willing blocker. He was drafted to be a receiving TE, but he never became a great receiving TE or blocking TE. He is a jack of no trades.
Besides, don’t we already have Quinn on the roster behind Graham. We used a freaking 2nd round pick on Quinn so we better not be moving on from that draft choice this early in his career. Quinn was drafted to be a blocker and now you’re telling me Watson is a blocker also?
When I hear Watson, I call NEXT.
In my opinion.
Yeah I don't want to snivel too much about draft picks that haven't panned out yet
but Quinn… not looking like a #2 by ANY stretch of the imagination.
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 8, 2010 9:42 PM MST up reply actions
You mention not Sniveling
but you do it right after lol. You really can not judge Quinn right now because he has not played on anything but special teams really.
by gnarlybroncodude on Mar 8, 2010 9:49 PM MST up reply actions
i was merely hinting at a possible snivel in the future...
I actually think he could be around for quite some time so we’ll be able to argue his value for years I’m hoping!
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 9, 2010 2:50 AM MST up reply actions
No
Faster, better blocker
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Mar 8, 2010 6:28 PM MST up reply actions
No way Watson is faster than Scheff or a better receiving treat.
Watson was considered a disappointment in NE the last few years. Are you guys misremembering your NFL history.
In my opinion.
Let me put it in more simple terms. If Ben Watson were even half as good as that 1st round pick the Pats used to draft him, any of the many TE hungry teams like the Bungles, Bills, Rams, Cards, Chefs, etc would have signed this guy on day one of FA.
In my opinion.
In which case
He is a bargain! Scheffler’s agent is pursuing other venues. We need to replace him and Watson is easily the best on the market currently as a UFA.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Mar 8, 2010 6:41 PM MST up reply actions
I've watched Watson quite a bit
from my seat the guys got REALLY good hands, good size, outruns big LBs and makes plays. Can’t attest to his blocking skills but surely they’re as good as Scheffs!
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 8, 2010 9:45 PM MST up reply actions
LOL
On being faster, you only have to reference the near pick six by Champ Bailey in the 2005 AFC Wild Card playoff game. Not a question who is faster. Ben Watson ran a 4.44 at UGA’s Pro Day. Scheffler never sniffed that. Check facts, please.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Mar 8, 2010 6:40 PM MST up reply actions
You mean the time Bailey started joking at the 15 and should have cost us a TD. Thanks for the bad call refs. Those were the good ole days before the Hoculli made refs hate us.
2005 and Watson’s pro day were kind of a long time ago. Again, if he was a 4.44 player today, he’d have been signed on day one of FA.
In my opinion.
It DID cost us a TD on that play.
Didn’t they rule him out of bounds at the 1?
But I agree, he was a freak 5 years ago.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
That play did cost us a TD
Though we got it on the next play.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Mar 8, 2010 7:21 PM MST up reply actions
True this
Watson is a physical freak of nature. We need a few more of those on offense, and who knows? Maybe McD has a kinship with him, after all, all his best offensive years came with McD in tow. I would love this move. Sheff out, Watson + draft pick in = happiness all around.
by RockyMountainHigh on Mar 9, 2010 12:19 AM MST up reply actions
Contract with Performance Clause
The Broncos were smart enough last year to put soem restrictions in Arrington’s contract. If Jamal passes a physical, I hope the Broncos are smart enough to do it with him. Add in a rotational role and I don’t think the Broncos will have a problem not getting either performance or value out of him.
Im confused
Whats wrong with J Williams? How is Broncos country not ecstatic about this potential pickup? If this isn’t an upgrade from Fields ( whom I absolutely love ) , then what is?
Nothing is wrong with him
Assuming he passes the physicals. I think he would be a great signing for you guys. Consider the Chargers had to carry an extra D linemen when he went to IR. So he could possibly save you a roster spot on the 53 and or 45.
He’s just not a longterm solution.
Jamal Williams would be a huge pick up for the defensive line.
Fields, Thomas and Baker could learn a few things from him. And I would love to see J W knock P Rivers on his butt.
Interesting!
Several things cross my minds as you all add your info, thoughts and opinions.
1 – The FA period could be different this year from the past.
Because the owners are less willing to give large amounts of
guaranteed and up front money.
Because the players are nervous that long term contracts have to be
gotten, with large guarantees and signing bonuses before the
lock-out or a new agreement which might lower the cap,
guarantees and signing bonuses.
2 – There will be more posturing this year than ever (don’t trust "visits",
"tenders", "rumors", or other "inside information" to mean what it
seems.
3 – Few FA’s are starting quality – those that are starting quality are
mostly very expensive. Starters are better acquired in the draft.
4 – Some FA backups are potential shortterm starters and longer term
depth.
5 – McX (love your phrase, McGeorge – with the singular verrb and plural
pronoun – are pursuing FAs pretty much like last year – short
term help (potential starters), with potential for depth and
mentoring.
6 – Changes in defense around the league are having an effect:
LBs are bigger, faster and more versatile – so more are used.
DL players have to be bigger, stronger and faster to counter-
balance the increasing size of OLs.
7 – The traditional 4-3 on defense and zone blocking on offense are
less suited to the trend then we have anticipated (though the
evidence has been piling up).
8 – The concept of the "amoeba" defense is going to bloom.
9 – Depth across the board is going to become crucial for at least
two reasons – bigger, stronger, faster players will result in more
injuries (both offense and defense);
no huddles offenses (to counter the "amoeba" defenses) will require
at least two platoons on defense and in some cases (i.e. NT) more.
10 – IMO McX seem to have anticipated almost everything that I just
stated.
11 – Visits by Williams and Watson might mean a lot or nothing. (IMO both could be
useful as Broncos – Watson is better than Scheffler and Williams is an example of
prototypical NT. If Dan Williams, Anthony Cody or Cam Thomas should be drafted,
together with Chris Baker, we could be developing both a rotation at NT and a pretty
formidable DL for a variety of situations (amoeba)).
by ivanthenotsobad on Mar 8, 2010 7:16 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
Except for number one (see Bears)...
I concur…especially that versatility (or amoeba themed teams) is (are) quickly becoming the name of the game.
It’s kind of like poker… if you can get other players to bet or play their hand differently than what they would normally do you’ve just gained an advantage…
My roots are in Denver, but my branches grew in Nebraska and my leaves fell in Lincoln.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Mar 9, 2010 2:39 AM MST up reply actions
It's not the biggest bet (or arm) that wins the pot...
It’s the best hand AND bets!
My roots are in Denver, but my branches grew in Nebraska and my leaves fell in Lincoln.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Mar 9, 2010 2:12 PM MST up reply actions
Ben Watson VRS Tony Sheffler
I actually used to like both of these TE’s. But I really think that Tony needs a new team and I think that Ben Watson is visiting Seattle first. If Ben Watson were worth keeping NE would keep him they seem to be keeping alot of their players that they like. We should really draft a TE Sayre was advicating Tony Moeaki of Iowa. I think he would be great if not him then maybe Jimmy Graham fo the U or Colin Peek from Bama could be good fits. All seem to be able to block and catch as well. More in the creed of Dan Graham.
AS for the new D-line It would be very interesting to see Fields,Williams,Bannan that is a massive D-line. They should be able to hold the point of attack very well and allow the LB’s to make alot of plays.
Guys, i got the Watson info from a Broncos fan site on twitter, however i cant find any info to confirm
He may have heard Browns, not Broncos
This would be a great signing
I think of it this way Bannan will be NT in pass situations where being huge is not as important and Williams would be in as a run stopper. This would be ideal for him with questions about whether he can handle a full workload
by black_knight101 on Mar 9, 2010 12:00 AM MST via mobile reply actions
amoeba : )
on offense and now on defense… indeed!
My roots are in Denver, but my branches grew in Nebraska and my leaves fell in Lincoln.
by Blackshirt4Broncos on Mar 9, 2010 2:41 AM MST up reply actions
I'll take J. Williams anyday
over that tub of lard some want us to draft, Mt. Cody.
Williams has that good attitude, Cody is another McGlockton, Gardner type IMO. Williams will be a GREAT mentor for Baker to learn the NT position. Williams will beat the opponents OL to a pulp then Bannan, Thomas, Baker and Fields will have a field day running all over the place when they come in. Think of it, I have (being an old lineman) and I love the possibilities. Especially when we play the big teams and in the playoffs.
Make those miracles happen - Jon Keyworth
+1 this
our rotational d-line gets heavily improved if williams comes on board. we’d be stealing one from the dolts – their run defense was their key weakness last year after he got hurt.
by RockyMountainHigh on Mar 9, 2010 4:47 AM MST up reply actions
I'm all for the signing of big Jamal Williams,
With him in the middle stuffing the run (when healthy) that will go along way with turning our sack machine Doom loose, and hopefully Robert Ayers will have more opportunties to some sacks this year too
by BroncosFaN88 on Mar 9, 2010 6:09 AM MST via mobile reply actions
Or Elvis will turn Jamal loose.
I’m excited to see what can happen when we have a good defensive line. That should free up other players on defense, even more than last season. When a team adjusts to deal with pressure from the LBs, the defensive line will make pressure. It’s a two way street of pressure. Absolutely, stopping the run needs to be the biggest priority. We can’t give up over 200 yards on the ground and expect to win many games.
That said, I’m excited for next year, especially after the changes on the defensive line, so far. If Jamal Williams comes in, that would make me even more excited. I don’t know if I’m going to be able to stand the wait.
Now, I’m getting all antsy for football. How many days til the start of the season?
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by kentuckybronco on Mar 9, 2010 6:20 AM MST up reply actions
Another thing I wanna add is,
That Dawk wouldnt have to play as the 5th Linebacker as much, which would lead to more turnovers for our d….hopefully! BTW I will be rooting for us to draft McClain in the first so he can help the often over pursuing dj williams in the middle
by BroncosFaN88 on Mar 9, 2010 6:55 AM MST via mobile reply actions
Neil Smith v2.0?
Really? See, when Neil joined Denver… he was only 31 years old and not coming off a prior season ending injury. Neil Smith was 34 when he went to SD after his tenure in Denver and he played very sparingly in 10 games.
I don’t mind them bringing him in, but at his age and after missing the 2009 season… he’s by far from a savior for the DL. Sure, I think he could help, but he would be just a piece to the annual puzzle of how to fix the defense.
______
Mile High Mania
I'm all for defensive line depth...
But how does this impact our draft strategy? This is arguably one of the deepest defensive line classes of the last decade. If we pass on youngsters who have the potential to be productive pros for 5 to 7 years (say, Dan Williams) for older vets with only 2 or 3 years, I’ll have to say I’m not in favor of the strategy. This team has a ton of work left to be done, and I don’t look at us as a playoff contender yet, but I’d really like to get some young line talent that has college production, and can be molded by our philosophy.
I'm worried that Jamal Williams will be more like....
Sam Adams, the fat and worn out DL that did nothing for Denver in 2007, not the stout, tough DL for the 2000 Ravens.
fader nation is a conquered nation
Jerry Jones is Al Davis with a smile!
CHICAGO...Where Quaterbacks' careers go to die!
Does anyone have any information on Carlton Powell?
I noticed this morning that he is no longer on the roster and I hadn’t heard anything about cutting him? Someone know what’s going on there at DB or did they forget to tranport his name from the PS?
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