Denver Broncos Draft Strategy Part 3 - The Big Board
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- Denver Broncos Draft Strategy Part 1a - Josh McDaniels
- Denver Broncos Draft Strategy Part 1b - Josh McDaniels
- Denver Broncos Draft Strategy Part 2 - Brian Xanders
I hope that the past three days have shed some light upon the Broncos future draft strategy. One can only go so far with past tendencies or experiences.
I am of the belief that a person is the total sum of their knowledge and experience - the latter directly affecting a persons interpretation of said knowledge.
The many assumptions I was forced to make in my analysis were based on my belief that Josh McDaniels and Brian Xanders experiences with their former teams will drive their knowledge-based decisions of the future. However, with each passing year we can build a more accurate profile on this tandem and how they approach the draft. So far, the sample size is far too small for anything substantial or accurate, thus the many assumptions. In a few short weeks we will find out just how well I was able to get into their heads and predict their actions.
I also hope that you will take the information I have laid out and use it to develop your own opinions, which will then improve your mocks, predictions, big boards, ect. I know my interpretation of the data will differ drastically from someone else's, but I too am only the sum of my knowledge and experience.
Perspective is important and each of us has a different one. I view the previous three posts as a foundation for the rest of you to build upon. Understanding the two men responsible for drafting future Broncos is far more important than each of our individual desires on Draft Day.
Final Analysis
My final analysis of the Broncos draft strategy under the Josh McDaniels/Brian Xanders juggernaut is rather simple - once you know what to look for.
The key is athleticism paired with need. Seems rather juvenile I know, but tell that to a Raider fan.
We must look at need and then look at what players exist on the board that fit into those positions of need. McDaniels is notorious about reaching for players that really fit his mold, so it's not just about the "expert" boards - yes, that means you Kiper.
Xanders really likes high character, athletic players at the skill positions. So, no Dez Bryant - whoops! You saw this last year with Robert Ayers and Alphonso Smith, so don't get upset when Mike Mayock exclaims how surprised he is and how stupid the Broncos are.
Certain traits seemed to appear in a majority of the draft picks I studied - regardless of position - and those traits will be important to make note of when trying to predict how the Broncos will draft in 2010.
Those traits are athletic, tough, nasty, high character, strong, good work ethic, leader, and fearless. Also, if a player is a beastly athlete but has injury concerns that caused their draft stock to fall, then be sure to mark them as potential Bronco draft picks. The Patriots were really good about picking up talent in later rounds by ignoring injury concerns and drafting based on talent alone.
Projected Big Board
Ok, so here is my Big Board for the Denver Broncos. Naturally, the list is entirely subjective to my own interpretation and bias. This is not the end all of Big Boards(Only McX has access to that information). Feel free to take what you know and make your own list.
Only players that fit into my narrow view of a "McD Mold" of a prospect made it onto my list, which is why you will see many dozens of players not even mentioned here. The top echelon of players were not included either as I felt quite certain they would not fall to the #11 position. And yes, I know I am likely dreaming to include Eric Berry on this board, but we all have delusions of some kind!
A few things I need to cover here. I crossed off all of the quarterbacks from the Big Board as it is now apparent that quarterbacks will not likely be drafted by the Broncos in this years' draft.
I did make one tough choice here by crossing off Rolando McClain from this list. I had the Broncos taking McClain at #11 up until even a few days ago, but Doc's recent post finally caused me to do some more research about Chron's Disease. I have learned that the disease, though manageable, is not nearly as simple to deal with as the MSM has portrayed. Diet is only part of the equation and does little to mitigate the discomfort, it only makes it somewhat less.
The biggest thing I learned was that the disease goes into remission, sometimes for years at a time. It made me wonder if McClain, who was diagnosed in high school, has been playing in college with his disease in remission. Having it resurface near the end of the season. My case in point was a "stomach virus" that supposedly almost made McClain miss the National Title Game this year. He played, making two tackles in the biggest game of his career.
If you ask me, he and Alabama purposely hid his condition and McClain knew that missing the title game would be worse than playing in the title game, even if he had a bad game - which he did. After going over it all, I have nixed McClain from the list as "Too big of a risk". Some may disagree and I hope his disease goes into remission, but the Broncos can ill afford to miss on any first round picks.
| 2010 Denver Broncos Big Board | |||||
| 1 | Eric Berry | DB | 52 | Kyle Calloway | OT |
| 2 | ILB | 53 | Kam Chancellor | DB | |
| 3 | Mike Iupati | OG | 54 | QB | |
| 4 | Dan Williams | NT | 55 | Walter McFadden | CB |
| 5 | Joe Haden | CB | 56 | Jamar Chaney | ILB |
| 6 | Brandon Graham | OLB | 57 | Dezmon Briscoe | WR |
| 7 | Earl Thomas | DB | 58 | Lonyae Miller | RB |
| 8 | Maurkice Pouncey | OC | 59 | Shawn Lauvao | OG |
| 9 | Kyle Wilson | CB | 60 | A.J. Jefferson | CB |
| 10 | Vladimir Ducasse | OG | 61 | Phillip Dillard | ILB |
| 11 | Taylor Mays | DB | 62 | Marshall Newhouse | OG |
| 12 | Jared Odrick | DE | 63 | Clifton Geathers | DE |
| 13 | Jerry Hughes | OLB | 64 | Jeremy Williams | WR |
| 14 | Golden Tate | WR | 65 | E.J. Wilson | DE |
| 15 | Jermaine Gresham | TE | 66 | QB | |
| 16 | Alex Carrington | DE | 67 | David Gettis | WR |
| 17 | Devin McCourty | CB | 68 | Emmanuel Sanders | WR |
| 18 | Kareem Jackson | CB | 69 | Andre Anderson | RB |
| 19 | Damian Williams | WR | 70 | Ed Wang | OT |
| 20 | Brandon Ghee | CB | 71 | Brandon Carter | OG |
| 21 | Matt Tennant | OC | 72 | David Pender | CB |
| 22 | Cam Thomas | NT | 73 | Brandon Deaderick | NT |
| 23 | Ricky Sapp | OLB | 74 | QB | |
| 24 | Terrance Cody | NT | 75 | Myron Rolle | DB |
| 25 | Patrick Robinson | CB | 76 | Nolan Carroll | CB |
| 26 | Lamarr Houston | DE | 77 | Chris DeGeare | OG |
| 27 | John Jerry | OG | 78 | Danario Alexander | WR |
| 28 | Tyson Alualu | DE | 79 | Erik Cook | OC |
| 29 | Rob Gronkowski | TE | 80 | Will Barker | OT |
| 30 | J.D. Walton | OC | 81 | Vince Oghobaase | DE |
| 31 | Anthony McCoy | TE | 82 | Travis Ivey | NT |
| 32 | Donald Butler | ILB | 83 | Micah Johnson | ILB |
| 23 | Taylor Price | WR | 84 | Chris Hawkins | CB |
| 34 | Nate Allen | DB | 85 | Nate Byham | TE |
| 35 | Akwasi Owusu-Ansah | CB | 86 | Chris Brown | RB |
| 36 | Morgan Burnett | DB | 87 | Kyle Williams | WR |
| 37 | QB | 88 | Michael Hoomanawanui | TE | |
| 38 | Greg Hardy | DE | 89 | Brian Simmons | OG |
| 39 | Reshad Jones | DB | 90 | Kyle McCarthy | DB |
| 40 | Torrell Troup | NT | 91 | QB | |
| 41 | Carlton Mitchell | WR | 92 | Deji Karim | RB |
| 42 | Jason Worilds | OLB | 93 | Chris Carter | WR |
| 43 | Kevin Thomas | CB | 94 | Sergio Render | OG |
| 44 | Mike Johnson | OG | 95 | Crezdon Butler | CB |
| 45 | Andre Roberts | WR | 96 | Keith Toston | RB |
| 46 | Arthur Jones | DE | 97 | J'Marcus Webb | OT |
| 47 | Brandon Spikes | ILB | 98 | QB | |
| 48 | Darrell Stuckey | DB | 99 | Reggie Stephens | OG |
| 49 | Eric Olsen | OC | 100 | Verran Tucker | WR |
| 50 | C.J. wilson | DE | 101 | Jeraill McCuller | OT |
| 51 | Linval Joseph | NT | 102 | QB | |
Tim Lynch's Official 2010 Denver Broncos Mock Draft
Today I will also offer my official mock. It is a mock based solely on what I have learned about McDaniels and Xanders over the two months I have been researching them. I will examine team needs and comparing them to the data I collected.
I will not guess on any trades, though I do not believe for one second that Josh McDaniels and Brian Xanders stand pat later this month with their six picks. I also think we get a mid round pick for Tony Scheffler at some point - probably a fourth-fifth rounder.
All quotes taken from CBSSports.com.
#11: Offensive Guard Mike Iupati, Idaho
|
| #11 Mike Iupati |
| HT | WT | Proj Rd |
40 Time |
Bench Reps |
Vert Jump |
20 Yard |
10 Yard |
Broad Jump |
Shuttle | Cone |
| 6'5" | 331 | 1st | 5.24 | 27 | 27.5 | 3.01 | 1.84 | 7'8" | 4.93 | 7.85 |
I really dislike this draft position. I will be hoping for the Broncos to trade back on draft day, but if they stand pat, the only two guys I could see going here would be Dan Williams or Iupati.
There is no way the Broncos should take Rolando McClain here. It's just too much of a financial risk for a guy who was too sick to be a factor in the National Title Game, too sick to work out at the NFL Combine, and too sick to perform well at his Pro Day. I feel for the guy, but my bias as a fan is hoping he gets drafted anywhere but here!
As for taking Iupati... not particularly fond of it, but given the choices on the board, I decided to address the one position Josh McDaniel's did little to address in Free Agency. Iupati has the versatility to play both inside and outside, which will give the Broncos the potential for depth in the future.
I feel like I have come full circle. I started out on the Iupati bandwagon, then went to McClain, then to Williams, then back to McClain, then back to Iupati. There must be a reason for that, so whatever misgivings I had were pushed to the wayside and I pulled the proverbial trigger.
Pass blocking: Good initial quickness off the snap. Provides a significant jolt to the defender with his punch. Too high in his pass protection but has the strong hands to latch on to the defender and ride him throughout the play. Good balance and lateral agility to slide with the defender and remain square. Can get himself in trouble with leverage by playing too high. Long arms and great lower strength to lock out. Rarely takes a step back even against a powerful bull rush, but this could be an area of concern against NFL defensive linemen, especially when Iupati fails to move his feet. Has developed into a savvy blocker. Looks to help out his teammates when not covered. Wants to hit someone.
The Broncos gave up a lot of sacks to the inside rush last season and Iupati would solidify the interior part of the line. There is a reason why the Patriots would expend a first round pick on a guard and it had a lot to do with pass protection. Add that to Iupati's ability to cover at Tackle could also help with the problem of depth at that position as well.
Run Blocking: Can dominate as a run blocker due to his mass and rare upper-body strength. Provides an explosive initial pop that often knocks the defender back. Has to do a better job of latching on, as he'll knock his opponent back only to see him regroup and get back into the play. Very good drive blocker when he plays with leverage and keeps his hands inside. Can physically remove the defender from the hole. Looks to eliminate more than one defender on the play and will release to the second level. Good effort downfield.
Anyone else think that Knowshon Moreno is praying to
Pulling/trapping: Surprisingly agile in getting out and blocking at the second level. Good body control and straight-line speed for a player of his size. Can re-adjust in space to hit the linebacker. Fails to lock onto the defender, at times, preferring to violently shove his target to the ground and look for others.
I like that Iupati wants to prove he is the bigger man in one-on-one battles. I could see during the course of a sixty minute football game where that kind of mentality could mean the difference between winning and losing. Iupati wants to dominate the other side and that kind of desire is hard to find these days.
Initial Quickness: Good initial quickness off the snap in pass protection. Even on the rare occasions when beaten off the snap, his long arms and wide-body make it difficult for defenders (including blitzing linebackers) to sneak through his gap. When beaten by quicker defensive tackles in the running game, has the agility and long arms to catch them as they slide by, typically knocking them down and pancaking them.
Iupati really is the best all around Guard prospect in this years draft. McDaniels and Brian Xanders would not regret picking this guy #11 overall. Mmmm, pancakes.
Downfield: Intimidating presence on the move. Good athleticism and balance for a man his size and can redirect to make the effective block when he gets close. Will misjudge angles at times, and miss his intended target. When he does so, rather than turn to stand helplessly around the pile, he moves on to the next target. Good effort to block downfield.
"Intimidating presence on the move". Yeah, I bet! If I saw a 330 pound man running full speed at me, I'd be checking my hip for the cold steel of my .45! Ha! Then again, I'm just a 175 pound guy who has no business on a professional football field, so a 330 pound man running full speed at me would constitute a threat upon my life. I wonder how many cornerbacks have cringed in utter fear when they realized there was no escaping Iupati's violent collision course? Ouch!
Intangibles: Made significant progress over the past two seasons and appears to be just scratching the surface of his potential. Size and athleticism combination enough that some will view him as a better offensive tackle or even defensive tackle prospect. Born in American Samoa and moved to the United States at 14. Began learning English (and football) at that time. Has only played football since high school. Signed with Idaho after bigger programs had concerns about his ability to qualify academically. Voted team captain by his peers for 2009.
Here is where Brian Xanders comes in. If Iupati is only scratching the surface of his potential, then he would fit into Xanders' mold of raw talent. He also fits into the McD mold of physicality and toughness. All around, the Broncos can't go wrong drafting Iupati #11 overall. He will ultimately become an all-pro linemen and could become one of the best guards in the league for a long time.
Click Here to visit SBNation's Mocking The Draft website to view Mike Iupati's draft profile.
#45: Defensive End Lamarr Houston, Texas
|
| #45 Lamarr Houston |
| HT | WT | Proj Rd |
40 Time |
Bench Reps |
Vert Jump |
20 Yard |
10 Yard |
Broad Jump |
Shuttle | Cone |
| 6'3" | 305 | 2nd | 4.84 | 30 | 33.5 | 2.80 | 1.68 | 9'6" | 4.71 | 7.61 |
This is undoubtedly a reach at #45; however, the Broncos have a unique need at Defensive End. That need nearly requires Xanders and McDaniels to look at undersized Defensive Tackles with a unique skill set to excel at the 5-2 Defensive End position. In my view, Lamarr Houston fits that bill.
Had I waited until the third round, Lamarr Houston and the few others who fit the bill would likely be gone. Guys like Alex Carrington. Tyson Alualu, or even Geno Atkins. I really love Alex Carrington from a character standpoint, but with Lamarr Houston or Tyson Alualu still available it didn't make sense to take him.
I reached for Houston over Alualu simply because I felt Houston was a better fit as a Defensive Guard. His strength and stoutness against the run were very attractive considering the issues the Broncos defense faced late last season.
Lamarr Houston is another player, like Iupati, who enjoys the physical aspect of the game. He seems to desire to punish the opposing players. I'd like to see him in the rotation on first downs or in short yardage situations, along with Jamal Williams and Marcus Thomas.
Pass rush: Extremely agile for a 300-pounder and works relentlessly to reach the quarterback. Gets under the shoulder of his man if lined up in the gap or slanting. Beats most cut blocks with quickness and strong hands and is able to recover from initial stalemate to get after the passer. Good backfield awareness. Gets his hands up to deflect passes, though his height and length leave something to be desired. Dangerous on twists inside. Short arms cause him to work harder to get off blocks against top-level guards. Must improve pass-rush moves.
Lamarr's success in college in the pass rush will not transfer over to the pros instantly. He will need to work hard on his technique for a year or two before he will be ready for every down duty. His ceiling is high and he certainly has the potential to grow into a Richard Seymour-like lineman.
Run defense: Excellent pursuit down the line. Upper body and hands are strong enough for him to pull down ballcarriers while engaged with blockers. Regularly lines up at the five-technique, standing his ground against larger linemen using a strong punch and leverage. Stays square to the line, able to move laterally while engaged. Lacks the bulk play inside on run downs at the next level.
He may lack the bulk to play inside on a 4-3 defense, but he would be a perfect fit in the Broncos 5-2. I believe Houston will be a better run defender than a pass rusher at the next level - at least initially.
Explosion: Has a good first step, but not elite first-step quickness. Lines up with two hands down so often he must prove to scouts he can get off quickly from the three-technique; his ability to penetrate on slants shows he's capable. Gets his hands into a blocker's jersey quickly and pushes them back using leverage and brute strength.
The good thing about strength is that it allows a player to mask minor issues. Houston will need a year or two to fully develop, but his pure strength will get him onto the field often, which will only help him close the gap on the rookie learning curve.
Strength: Massive upper body. Should wow teams pumping bench-press reps at the Combine. Plays strong and has a good punch with violent hands to disengage. Uses low center of gravity to keep leverage against the run. Holds up larger lineman and double teams but will be engulfed by larger NFL linemen, unable to disengage when head-up.
He wowed enough to bench 225 pounds 30 times. He would get engulfed by larger NFL Linemen, had he stayed a Defensive Tackle. Alas, he will be a Defensive Guard in the Broncos 5-2 defense.
Tackling: Very strong tackler, comes with aggression and does not let go once in contact with the ballcarrier. Agile enough to get through trash inside. Good flexibility and strength to bring down backs coming through the hole. Good burst to the quarterback once through the line. Does not break down in space and lacks the change-of-direction skills to capture elusiveness quarterbacks and running backs, but will chase them down with hustle and good straight-line speed.
This says it all. The guy has a nonstop motor. He has the desire to excel. He will be a guy who will go full bore from start to finish. That is the type of player we have missed on the Broncos defense for several years. The Patriots defense was a bunch of blue collar guys working their asses off all year long. I think Houston would be just another one of those blue collar guys that McDaniels is looking for to rebuild the Orange Crush.
Intangibles: Very competitive. Has an above-average motor and is willing to play hurt. Generally quiet, but took over vocal defensive line leadership role as a senior. Suspended for one game in 2008 after DWI arrest. Parents are both ministers.
Sounds like a well rounded individual who loves to compete. What's not to like about that? The DWI business isn't a concern. In fact, what do you have to do to get a DWI anyway? Anything major is a DUI, so what was he on? Cough syrup?? It doesn't matter. It's the only black mark on his record and it was likely a bad choice not ever repeated.
Click Here to visit SBNation's Mocking The Draft website to view Lamarr Houston's draft profile.
#80: Offensive Center Matt Tennant, Boston College
|
| #80 Matt Tennant |
| HT | WT | Proj Rd |
40 Time |
Bench Reps |
Vert Jump |
20 Yard |
10 Yard |
Broad Jump |
Shuttle | Cone |
| 6'5" | 300 | 2-3 | 5.15 | 27 | 25 | 2.89 | 1.76 | 8'2" | 4.62 | 7.60 |
I know many of you don't think Tennant will last this far, but if he doesn't then change the name to J.D. Walton. Either way, the Broncos cannot leave the third round without a center.
In the worst case scenario, with both Tennant and Walton gone by the time the 80th pick in the draft rolls around, then McDaniels and Xanders will need to reach and take Eric Olsen.
Crazy? Maybe not. The Broncos do not have a starting center on the roster. Sure there has been talk of shifting Seth Olsen over, but is he really a starting center? Do we want to wait until September to find out?
Lots of questions there. The simple fact is, there is a big dropoff in talent after the first three centers. The fourth, Eric Olsen, is serviceable, but after him the talent level drops off a freakin' cliff!
Which is why the Broncos must wait no later than the third round to pick up a true center. If they pass and wait until the fourth round, then Eric Olsen might be gone. If that happens, the Broncos are up a certain creek without a paddle.
Therefore, with the 80th pick in the draft the Broncos select Matt Tennant. Or JD Walton. Or Eric Olsen. For now, I'll go with my favorite of the three.
Pass blocking: Good hand punch to get the defender off-balance and shows some nastiness in attempting to de-cleat the defender when the opportunity arises. Good lateral agility to mirror the defender. Keeps his shoulders square and plays with leverage and balance due to proper knee bend. Plays high and can get in trouble anchoring against shorter, powerful defensive tackles.
Tennant fights hard to protect the quarterback and after watching the interior of the Broncos offensive line collapse time after time it would be nice to see domination the likes of which we haven't seen since Tom Nalen. He will need to work on his technique, but he will be able to start day one.
Run blocking: Moderate and improving strength to wall-off and sustain. Can turn and control his assignment to keep him from making the play. Flashes some explosiveness in his initial pop, but needs to add more strength in his upper body to sustain blocks longer.
He appears to be suited well for a zone-blocking system, but with his size and a little work on blocking techniques, he could become a solid power run blocker. I'm curious to see how he handles the bigger Nose Tackles in the NFL - that will be no easy task.
Pulling/trapping: Efficient combo blocker. Provides a pop at the first level, but is agile enough to get to the second level and deliver an effective block there as well. Good lateral agility and initial quickness to pull. Athletic enough in this area to consider moving to guard at the next level.
Tennant appears to be more effective when utilizing this skill. From what my eyes tell me, centers typically work in tandem with guards to open running lanes - whether they be outside or inside. Perhaps Steve Nichols(HT) could weigh in on that. Either way, this is obviously one of Tennant's better strengths.
Initial Quickness: Good initial quickness to gain an advantage on the defender. Good burst off the snap for the cut-block on quick throws.
Cut blocking is still utilized in the Broncos offense, but not to the degree it was under Shanahan. However, Tennant could be dangerous in the second level for outside running plays.
Downfield: High-effort player who looks to block downfield and isn't afraid to block to or through the whistle. Very good foot quickness and balance to get to the second level and adjust to the moving target.
Yet another example of a player who fits into the McD-style of player. A tough blue collar guy who has a strong desire to get in on the action. It's that kind of desire that you just can't teach.
Intangibles: Tall, almost lanky athlete for the center position. Room for additional muscle mass. Legitimate NFL athleticism. Reliable shotgun and traditional snapper. Durable player entering his senior campaign with 41 consecutive starts. Has the athleticism and body style to consider moving to guard. A bit too lanky for some teams at center.
McDaniels has a preference for players who have frames that have room for additional mass. All that means is that Tennant hasn't fully grown into his frame. This also means he hasn't reached his full potential, which makes him a great third round prospect for whichever team picks him up. Hopefully it will be the Broncos!
#114: Inside Linebacker Brandon Spikes, Florida
|
| #114 Brandon Spikes |
| HT | WT | Proj Rd |
40 Time |
Bench Reps |
Vert Jump |
20 Yard |
10 Yard |
Broad Jump |
Shuttle | Cone |
| 6'3" | 249 | 3-4 | 5.05 | -- | 29 | -- | -- | 9'3" | -- | 6.97 |
Will he fall this far? Maybe, maybe not. Currently, he is ranked 100th best player in the draft by CBS Sports and 4th best Inside Linebacker. More than likely, McDaniels would need to trade up fifteen to twenty spots to nab him, but he will after he trades Tony Scheffler for a 4th round pick.
In any case, Brandon Spikes was thought to be the second best inside linebacker in the country until he ran the 40 yard dash. Now all of a sudden his draft stock is crap and he'll be lucky to go in the top half of the third round. Forget that he was a beast on the field in a big time program at Florida.
To me, there is a difference between straight-line running nearly nude speed and full on football gear with the opposing offense trying to score speed, aka Game Speed. By all accounts, Brandon Spikes doesn't look markedly slower than everyone else on the field. Then again, perhaps that nagging groin injury affected him all year long. We all know how a great player struggles with a nagging groin injury(Champ Bailey...)
So sitting in the fourth round, I don't see how Josh McDaniels and Briand Xanders don't trade up to nab Brandon Spikes. If he turns out to be garbage, well, most fourth round picks do end up being garbage.
The Broncos need depth and help at the ILB position and Spikes would be an excellent low-risk, high-reward kind of draft pick. Now if McD stands pat and Spikes is gone by #114, then he should pick up Jamar Chaney.
Read & React: Quick to diagnose and has good speed to the ball. Has the speed to beat the back to the edge, good athletic ability and little to no wasted motion.
Spikes was the quarterback of that defense for the better part of three seasons. He has the smarts and quickness to be an effective ILB.
Run defense: Rare size and explosive punch to quickly disengage from blocks. Likes to initiate action and is physical shedding blocks. Can be undisciplined. Attacks the line of scrimmage so aggressively versus the run that he leaves cutback lanes for quick-footed runners to exploit. Can get locked up with blockers if his initial pop is absorbed. Needs to work on his use of hands to disengage.
He uses his instincts often and sometimes ends up out of position. Spikes fits the physical mold that McDaniels is looking for, but he will need to work on his discipline at the next level. Opposing offenses will exploit him if he doesn't become more disciplined. I think that is something that comes with experience though.
Pass defense: Quick footwork to get depth in coverage. Very good reading the quarterback's eyes while in coverage. Breaks downhill quickly to close on the ball and arrives with attitude.
Spikes won't be a liability in coverage, especially zone. His speed might be a concern, but I am beginning to suspect his groin never fully healed before his Pro Day. It should certainly be healed by training camp.
Tackling: Explosive wrap-up tackler who can separate the football from the ball carrier. Good athletic ability and balance to break down in space to make the tackle against smaller, quicker athletes. Doesn't consistently pursue with the reckless abandon normally associated with the position.
Missed tackles were a problem with the Broncos defense last year. With Spikes on the field, we fans won't be concerned about a running back shedding six Broncos on his way to a 17 yard gain.
Pass Rush/Blitz: Effective stand-up blitzer. Varies his speed off the edge and uses his explosive upper-body strength to push blockers into the pocket. Good strength and lateral agility to slide off blocks and pressure the passer.
His most important attribute as it pertains to becoming a Denver Bronco. The linebackers will be the primary pass rusher in 2010, so having a threat not named Elvis Dumervil will be a very good thing for the Broncos defense.
Intangibles: Suspended for one game in 2009 for attempting to gouge the eyes of a Georgia running back Washaun Ealey. Spikes was not penalized on the play, but was suspended for the first half of the Vanderbilt game by coach Urban Meyer after his film review of the play. Spikes extended the suspension, himself, to a full game in an effort to not be a distraction to the team. Voted a team captain in 2008-09 and was a member of the 2008 UF Football leadership Committee. Returned for his senior campaign despite earning a first-day grade from the NFL Advisory Committee. Good bloodlines. Cousin, Takeo Spikes, plays inside linebacker for the San Francisco 49ers.
Eye gouging. Yikes, Mr. Spikes! He chastised himself for that action and took full responsibility. He has no other infractions of note. Spikes has dreams of playing with his brother on the 49ers, but I'd rather see that dream not come to fruition. Brandon Spikes would make an excellent addition to the Broncos rotation and if he returns to his dominant self then the Broncos will have gotten a starting ILB with a cheap fourth round pick.
#183: Offensive Guard Brandon Carter, Texas Tech
|
| #183 Brandon Carter |
| HT | WT | Proj Rd |
40 Time |
Bench Reps |
Vert Jump |
20 Yard |
10 Yard |
Broad Jump |
Shuttle | Cone |
| 6'6" | 329 | 6th | 5.34 | 22 | 24.5 | 2.95 | 1.78 | 8'6" | 4.94 | 7.82 |
By taking Iupati in the first round, the Broncos got a versatile future All-Pro guard who can also fill in at the tackle position. The Broncos still need depth at the interior of the line, especially if injuries stike again in 2010. Brandon Carter is raw and may not have a very high ceiling, but he has the size and athleticism to play at the RG position.
He would be the best prospect available in the early sixth round. My only problem with him might be my suspicions of potential performance enhancement use. I have no evidence other than the smooth, innocent faced freshman and the maniac roid rage look he has today.
Brandon Carter, in spit of my suspicions, has shown he has NFL ability and has the potential to contribute in a power run scheme. He was a team leader and played with heart and determination - this fulfilling the McD-mold I was looking for.
Pass blocking: Strong pass protector who sets quickly, delivers a strong punch, and plays with a wide base. Excellent anchor, rarely gets pushed into the pocket. Will reach to chip both the nose and defensive end if no one lines up against him. Tech employs very wide splits, should be even more effective in pass pro in tight spaces because his recovery speed and lateral footwork is limited. Adept at picking up twists. Quick throws in the offense mask his inability to handle secondary rushes after initial contact.
This attribute is the main reason why I am big on taking him over other late round guard prospects. He can fill in nicely to protect the quarterback and hold his own on a consistent basis.
Run blocking: Latches onto his man on run blocks and does not let go. Able to turn his man out of the hole and use a defender's momentum to take him out of the play. Knows his angles to create holes inside. Rarely loses ground when run blocking, but is a bit underwhelming as a drive blocker -- partially because of his lack of experience in a three-point stance. Does not move his feet well enough to effectively zone block. Lunges too often to reach his man from his deep stance, bending at the waist and losing his balance. Slow to cut block, but gets good contact and is tough to get around.
With enough good coaching, he could become an impressive power run blocker. If it wasn't for his lack of overall mobility, he'd grade out much higher in the draft.
Pulling/trapping: Lumbers a bit when trapping but usually hits a target using his long arms. Can adjust to defenders coming from inside. Usually lined up well off the line, however, giving him an extra step (which he needs) when on the move. Lacks the foot quickness to be effective blocking outside of the tackles.
Carter is much more effective when asked to play in garbage, where mobility isn't something he has to rely on. Give him a target and the guy will destroy whatever is in that direction. However, if you ask him to move laterally and catch opposing players at an angle and you will be asking for trouble.
Initial Quickness: Fair quickness off the snap in pass set. In the rare situations where he lines up with a hand on the ground, Carter's get off is only adequate. Better than expected getting to the linebackers when called upon.
Whatever quickness he had in college will not translate well in the NFL. He is best suited as an interior lineman for both pass protection and drive blocking. He has the potential to become a solid starter if that is the role he is asked to fill.
Downfield: Surprisingly flexible for his size. Takes good angles and is able to adjust quickly enough to incoming defenders to get a hand on them, which is often enough because of his length and strength, but lacks the footwork to mirror and sustain. Usually hits only one target in space, doesn't often hustle downfield to get the extra block.
I like that he knows how to take good angles. It shows he knows his speed and quickness to judge what angle he needs to take to cut off defenders. However, if Carter has to stop and change direction he'll likely whiff on whatever target he was aiming for.
Intangibles: Team captain who is very competitive on and off the field. Plays through the whistle, comes to the aid of his teammates and cleans up piles, if needed. Suspended and stripped of his team captaincy for one game in 2009 for violating team rules.
Overall a solid player and a low risk pick at #183.
#220: Wide Receiver Danario Alexander, Missouri
|
| #220 Danario Alexander |
| HT | WT | Proj Rd |
40 Time |
Bench Reps |
Vert Jump |
20 Yard |
10 Yard |
Broad Jump |
Shuttle | Cone |
| 6'5" | 221 | 7th | 4.62 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- |
Once touted as a sure first round draft pick, Danario Alexander has been plagued with injuries over the last year. Including four knee surgeries.
His draft stock has fallen off a cliff since the Combine. He is now ranked 30th best wide receiver, and 236th best player in this years' draft by CBS Sports.
Whether he falls to #220, I don't know, but if he does the value versus risk would be incredible. I think the Broncos might have to trade back into the 6th in order to get him, but it would be worth it.
Alexander is the deep threat that the Broncos offense sorely needs in 2010.
Release: Used in the slot quite often, not often faced with the jam. Lacks a quick get-off from the line, but has the physical tools to muscle his way past corners down the sideline or inside for slants. Separates using size and acceleration once free.
He'll need to be coached up in this area, but his straight-line speed will force opposing defenses to respect the Noodle Armed deep ball.
Hands: Very good hands, only the occasional drop when trying to make a play after the catch. Gets to passes others wouldn't because of his height and exceptional leaping ability. Athleticism and strong hands allow him to win jump balls. Good red-zone target for that reason; also uses his body to shield defenders on slant routes. Very good body control, extends for high throws over the middle and gets his feet down to stay in-bounds on sideline passes. Traps balls against his chest when facing the quarterback.
Putting him on the outside, opposite Brandon Marshall, would make for an incredible tandem. Jabar Gaffney and Eddie Royal would come in the slot or in spread formations. The Broncos would instantly have multiple mismatches on the field against any team in the NFL.
Route running: Usually lines up in the slot so he can work the middle of the field. Needs to work on a head fake to sell seam route before heading to the corner. Rounds off routes too often, failing to sink his hips. Takes advantage of open zones inside where footwork isn't as crucial.
Perhaps working the middle of the field so often in college is what led to so many injuries. I would prefer seeing him on the outside as a deep threat, working the middle of the field as much as any outside receiver. He'll need to be taken out of the slot position for sure.
After the catch: At his best when catching the ball on the run, using his long strides to beat defenders down the field. Used on receiver screens to get the ball in his hands in motion. Slow to accelerate when stopped on a route, but is tough to catch once in his stride. Able to change directions after the catch or make a quick sidestep to avoid defenders, but lacks quick-twitch elusiveness. Defenders bounce off him when failing to wrap up, and he runs with good balance after that contact to drive forward for additional yards. Good stiff arm in the open field.
I like the idea of having him and Brandon Marshall being threats out of the screen pass. Boy do I ever hope we keep BMarsh and boy to hope we draft Danario!
Blocking: As physical as he wants to be blocking for the run, with a chance to be really good. Handles small defenders well using aggression and length to hold them off, usually just a one-arm shove takes them out of the play. Will need to bend his knees and move his feet more quickly to mirror and sustain against NFL corners who will out-quick him in space.
This is another skill that makes Alexander a perfect fit for the Broncos. Many of our outside runs depend on excellent blocking by the wide receivers. Brandon Marshall excels in run blocking, but it would be nice to have the option to go to either side without wondering which wideout will be doing the blocking.
Intangibles: Constantly works with his quarterback and in the film room to be a better receiver. Showed great work ethic to come back after injuries, but his medical record is still an issue. Coaches have nothing but kind words about him.
The injury history is a big concern, which is why he is project to fall so far; however, McDaniels and Xanders have both proven to be less concerned about injury histories than others. I believe the risk-reward factor favors a team that picks Alexander up in the sixth round or later.
Click Here to visit SBNation's Mocking The Draft website to view Danario Alexander's draft profile.
--
There you have it.
These four posts have been an enjoyable and education experience for me. Whichever way McX decides to go in 11 days, I will be a Broncomaniac through and through. Thank you all for the kind words and many informative comments on this subject. Hopefully we all will continue to learn more about this new McX team as time goes on. Even more than that, I hope this new "juggernaut" will create the next dynasty in the NFL.
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Tim,
This is one of the better posts I have ever read on MHR. I like it for three reasons. First, you go against the grain and resist the Pouncey at #11 hysteria. Second, your big board seems to be almost exactly what the final product of your first three posts in this series would produce. Third, the level of explanation for each pick is well articulated and grounded in logic, not a panic-induced hysteria. Thanks!
Thanks!
If we do trade back, I’d take Pouncey in a heartbeat…just not at #11. :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Yep....Iupati would be OK...but you take him at 11 then you have to consider Pouncey at 11 too...
I am hoping we end up with 10 or so picks by trading down and getting rid of Sheffler.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
I appreciate the effort...
…to project what Denver might do rather than what we might hope they’ll do. I’ve been a big Iupati proponent partly because I really like the player, but largely because, IMO of course, he makes a lot of sense. He’s a big, athletic and strong mauler that plays with a lot of vinegar, and who also comes with the potential to back up both tackle positions in a pinch. He not only fills a huge short team need at LG, but if he lives up to his enormous potential, the idea of him and Clady playing side by side for the next decade makes me salivate. Throw in the fact that the LG is very active (pulls and traps) in McD’s scheme, and you’ve got a guy that makes for a formidable left side and that can be deployed to clear running lanes on the right side with impunity.
I can see a scenario where Denver tries to trade back with Pouncey in mind— and I’d be excited about that— but if they passed on Iupati at 11 for Pouncey, I’d be very disappointed. More so, I just don’t see it as likely.
The only adjustment I’d make to you Big Board is Odrick. I’m guessing he falls just before or after Williams (3 or 4).
by PredominantlyOrange on Apr 11, 2010 11:40 AM MDT reply actions
The thing is, Odrick was rated a late first round, early second round prospect until
a few weeks ago…all of a sudden he’s a Top 10 prospect? I just didn’t buy it. If we trade back some, he’d be quite high on my list. :) I actually like Lamarr Houston as much as I like Odrick…
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
same thing happened with Tyson Jackson last year.
Teams are looking for stud 3-4 defensive lineman, either 5 techs or NTs.
by black_knight101 on Apr 11, 2010 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions
Based on the assumption...
…that McD was influenced by the Patriot model, Odrick is a great ‘reach’ candidate. He fits the physical and intangible model at a position of high value. If I remember correctly, Richard Seymour, Vince Wilfork and Ty Warren were all considered reaches at their respective draft slots.
by PredominantlyOrange on Apr 11, 2010 12:55 PM MDT up reply actions
You're right, PO
‘Reach’ can be nebulous – if the player fits your manual and can do exactly what you are drafting him to do and you have a need for that player, reach becomes a theory device rather than a draft issue.
It all starts with the lines
I am not prone to argue. I agree with you..
I just didn’t buy into the hype personally. If McX feel Odrick is exactly what their looking for then I don’t see how drafting him #11 could be construed as a reach.
Other than “reaching” out to get your guy. lol I just think Lamarr Houston will be there at #45 and would essentially be the same type of player.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
I'm not advocating Odrick, per se...
I still couldn’t sort out a great 5-tech candidate if you spotted me the ‘5’ and the ‘tech’. I was speaking more towards how my gut says McX might view it.
That’s the coolest thing about this particular draft— its deep enough that its impossible to zero in on a comfortable opinion about what the strategy might be. One day I think Williams, another Iupati/Pouncey, another Bryant, even. There are great ‘consolation’ prizes for the elite prospects available later, so its easy to see almost anything as plausible and almost nothing as certain.
by PredominantlyOrange on Apr 11, 2010 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
You got me there....
I like Lamarr Houston simply because he would be a surefire first rounder in another other draft! lol
I’d like it if either Odrick or Houston became a Bronco this year…. :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
I think you are going too far in crossing off McClain
He’s an ILB, so he probably was going to drop draft day anyway (just like Maualuga). He’s really honestly not in play for #11. But he could easily fall to the 2nd round, at which point he would be worth the risk despite Crohn’s.
by black_knight101 on Apr 11, 2010 11:45 AM MDT reply actions
In that context, I'd take McClain in the second easily. :)
just no where near #11…guys been too ill to be the same guy since just before the Title Game….scary…
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Great article, Tim
I noticed that you had Greg Hardy on the board at 38. I’m curious – where would you have seen him play for Denver if he happened to fall to us? I’ve followed him for the past two years and I’m not sure that he fits the 3-4/5-2 approach, but I’m open to a different line of thought.
It all starts with the lines
I was high on him a few weeks back, even mocked him in the third round initially....
but yeah, the more I looked at him the more I wondered about his ability. I saw him as a run stopping DG. I still think he grades out in the third round which is arond 40-50 on my Board…he might be a bit higher than I think of him now though – just never updated my board after I changed my mind. :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Just to add some pestering babble from the peanut gallery....
I’ve always enjoyed following the draft. This year is completely different, because I’ve never had this much information at my diposal. I now have a more educated opinion thanks to the input from the people who contribute, here. For what it’s worth:
The senior bowl changed my opinion of Iupati. He’ll probably become a fine pro player, but his tendency to hold when beaten by a faster player made me think twice about taking him as high as you propose.
I’m not too keen on Spikes. The Broncos need an ILB with some coverage skills. I agree more with those that find Butler appealing.
Great series of posts, though. I’m onboard with you for most of your choices.
"People who live in glass houses...shouldn't."
Thanks!
Iupati has a high ceiling and will grow into an All-Pro lineman…i believe he only started playing football in high school and only learned english at that time too.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
I’m a little confused on that part… I’m almost certain they speak a lot of english in American Samoa. Am I wrong here?
Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.
I'm not Samoan...just read that
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
I think it was Vladimir Ducasse
That’s his exact story, and he is from Haiti where they speak Haitian Creole, which is based on French, so no English
did i get them mixed up?
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
No I got it right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Iupati
Mike Iupati’s story is similar to Validmirs…
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
I'd be happy with Iupati and Alualu in any language...
I have a feeling they think more of Pouncey than they do Iupati. Just my feeling and have no inside info on the matter. BTW, Thanks Tim for the exciting and informational series, congrats young man!
by bfree2bronc on Apr 11, 2010 10:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Well Done...
The series was a joy to read and very informative. Thank you.
by Pembisito on Apr 11, 2010 12:15 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Great draft
I love all the trench players, and would be very happy to solidify both sides of the ball for years to come. Carter is a beast in the sixth round and would bring a Dawkins like attitude to the offense line. I do hope we can pick up some extra draft picks to get a power back like Gerhart.
I cant wait to see what Knowshon can do with some holes and open space!
Yes....give me an Oline please!
It doesnt have to be exactly as I envisioned, but I hope so!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
I gave it an "A"
Three offensive linemen, an inside linebacker and only one defensive linemen. Perfect. A running back would have been nice, but as you said, we probably don’t have all of our picks yet.
As an aside, it strikes me as interesting that only one of your picks was brought in for a meeting. After all your research into the minds of McX, I’m sure there was a reason?
Give me impact at center, copmetence at guard and an upgrade at linebacker - sprinkle in strides from having the same system for two years in a row - and I'll show you a contender!
Perhaps I am asking McX to bring these guys in before Draft Day. lol
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
I'm with ea on this Tim.
I am wondering why some we had in for a visit aren’t even on your board. I realize some were brought in as a smokescreens, but no Weatherspoon, Benn, McCluster, Gerhart, Decker, Hawley,ect. on your board has me rather frustrated. You scratched 8, can’t you put some more on? Also, what’s up with all the TEs on your board? I would sure hope we don’t see Gresham there at 45 and think, oh, we better take him because he was 15 on our board.
They still got time to bring in more guys right?
If you check back on Part 1a, you will find that the TE position is one that the Patriots drafted almost every year….I cannot count a TE being drafted this year because of that.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
I think we have hit our limit actually.
As far as i’m aware we are only allowed 30 visits/private workouts. If that is the case we have had as many as we can.
I only counted like 16 or so...is there a full list somewhere?
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Yup :-)
QB- Tony Pike
WR- Marty Gilyard
C- Matt Tennant
OL- Valdimir Ducasse
C- JD walton
RB- Toby Gerhart
RB/WR/KR- Dexter Mccluster
RB Montario Hardesty
WR Arrelious Benn
DE Jared Odrick
CB Alteraun Verner
NT Terrence Cody
DE/OLB Koa Misi
NT Terrel Troup
WR Jacoby ford
WR Damian Williams
LB Sean Weatherspoon
CB CJ Lovett
OC Joe Hawley
OC Maurkice Pouncey
CB Kareem Jackson
WR Dez Bryant
DE Tyson Alualu
OT Jared Veldheer
WR/KR/QB Armanti Edwards
DT Al Woods
NT Dan Williams
WR Eric Decker
DE/OLB Brandon Graham
WR Carlton Mitchell
well damn...
i’m not too high on many of these guys…:(
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Wow, how does Brandon Carter fit the liberty spikes under his helmet?
You’re on a real winning streak, Zappa. My only complaint is that you didn’t dish this stuff out more slowlly, the better to give us time to absorb it.
It was meant to be dished out quickly...sort of a like a Pre-Draft party. ;-)
Come next weekend, we’ll be in full on “Draft is just a few days away” mode. lol
Thanks btw. I start going to school four nights a week at the end of May, so this is likely my last big hurrah for a while. I might do something here and there, but nothing close to the grand scale of this project. lol
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Night school plus an infant, huh? I had superhuman levels of energy during that first year. Milk it while you can.
yeah....she has colick too. kickin' my arse.
Just noticed all the spelling errors…oye. I forgot to run spell check…
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
There we go...half dozen spelling errors corrected.
I can’t believe I allowed it to be published before checking for errors. lol
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Iupati, Houston, Spikes, Alexander . . .
Yup, that’s an “A”, my friend.
Now, the only way I would be happy with a Marshall trade is to get another first and grab Pouncey. Can you imagine: Clady, Iupati, Pouncey, Kuper, and Harris?
I’m drooling all over my keyboard . . .
-
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
Replace Tennant for a WR then....I would rather keep BMarsh and get Tennant personally........
Either way, In McX We Trust right? :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
The one thing that bothers me about Iupati...
is he played for Idaho. I mean, do people like this guy because he is Samoan, has long hair and tattoos? I get that feeling sometimes. Iupati looks tough, but I see guys that look tough at the grocery store. I’m not taking them at 11.
I mean, if it came down to picking between two really good lineman (Pouncey or Iupati) at 11, seems to be a better bet to pick the guy who is good in the SEC over a guy who is good in the WAC.
by charlesnelsonreilly on Apr 11, 2010 2:10 PM MDT reply actions
You are aware of where Clady played, aren't you?
Not to mention Marshall, Rod Smith, etc., etc.?
-
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
Ha Ha Ha and Idaho got stomped by Boise St! I guess they played around Iupati.
His lower school playing showd a little at the Senior Bowl. I think he will develop into one of the finest when it’s all said and done. Next year there will be a couple of OLinemen out of Boise St worth looking at too. They protect Kellen Moore pretty darn good.
by bfree2bronc on Apr 11, 2010 10:16 PM MDT up reply actions
I gave it an A, Zap. I would have taken the A++ option if you had provided it.
That mock is an absolute dream, I would be ecstatic. In fact, I would probably be in danger of having a stroke at the tender age of 25.
You know I love the Iupati pick. Because he is Samoan, and he kicks ass.
If I could change anything, I would prefer Tyson Alualu over Houston in the second. You know, because he’s also Samoan, and also kicks ass. However, I love Houston, even at #45. I live in south Texas, and have seen plenty of Texas games, because I have to. As you said, in any other draft he would be rated a lot higher. And I still think he is underrated where he is at amongst the experts. He’s an impact player, and I would honestly rather have him over his decorated teammate, Sergio Kindle.
I worry a bit about the Tennant pick because of his deficiencies in the power running game , but it seems to be excellent value in the 3rd.
Spikes in the 4th would be an absolute coup, and unfair to the rest of the league if we got him there. Regardless of eye-gouging and slow 40 times, this guy is a pure-ass football player. I like him better for what we need at ILB than McClain, in fact. I would even be happy with us taking Tennant in the third, and moving up with our fourth and another pick to get back into the third to secure Spikes there. An elite talent added in the 3rd or 4th is never a bad thing.
Like the Carter pickup, a little crazy in the trenches does a body (team) good.
After reading your breakdown, I also love the Alexander pick. Seems like either a boom or non-bust pick. Meaning, he is either a terrific pickup, or he continues to struggle with injuries and all we lost is a 7th.
Overall, awesomness abounds.
Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.
I like what you've done here Tim
That is quite a big project. I gave it an “A.” I just finished watching the You Tube Videos on Danario Alexander since I wasn’t too familiar with him. He looks like a B Marsh clone. Mizzou used him the same way that Marshall was used last year. In the interview I watched, he spoke intelligently and came across as a willing student of the game. I would be elated with this outcome. I too would edge out Butler before Spikes, but it could certainly happen this way. Rec’d.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
toot my own horn
I played against lamar in highschool so I would love to see the guy come back to colorado and be good. Also played against big phil loadholt I like to see the old rivals do good. This isn’t the draft I would like to see but hey I’m just a fan and have no say and sometimes it makes me get teary eyed :( lol
by Rock34bronco fan on Apr 11, 2010 4:17 PM MDT reply actions
KUDOS - KUDOS - KUDOS
Tim, first things first thank you, I really appreciate the tremendous effort for providing so much information to use leading up to draft day. A great read well thought out and put together. I like the format and will use it as a reference when the Broncos make their picks. I’ve always found myself scrambling for player information on draft day. Having this available as a tool will make my draft day more enjoyable when our group gets together. As you stated we all have our own opinions, I don’t always agree with beat writers and MHR but since joining MHR I’m more excited about this year’s draft. I’ve come to enjoy reading the various articles that keep me informed. That said, based on my talent board [hehe] I don’t understand why McD & X didn’t invite more top 20 players [IMO] for private workouts only Dez Bryant. I think it clearly indicates they will trade down in the first round for additional picks. If they trade BM I think it’s for Seahawks #14 or even worst another team’s 2nd which I disagree with doing. Giving away a rare talent as Marshall will cost us our last playmaker on the team. Another indication BM will be traded is the fact 7 WR’s & 2 wr/kr players were invited for private workouts.
Tim, I don’t understand your reach for Mike Iupati at #11, who I have rated late first round pick [25-28] who wasn’t even invited for private workouts. Maurkice Pouncey I have rated mid-first round pick [15-18], and scratching Rolando McClain both need players. Lastly, I do believe in building with team players but, I also believe great coaches can handle the super elite players who make a difference it’s far too easy to rid yourself of challenging players and eventually depeleting your team’s talent. It takes all kinds of personalities to build a winning Super Bowl team. Again, thanks…
My pick with #11 is: Dez Bryant or Rolando McClain… Go Broncos!
oc60
Thanks OC!
I don’t intend for my opinion to be the end all be all, but I still had to give it. ;-) I love McClain – the guy in college….I worry about the McClain – my Chron’s disease is out of remission. Are they capable of being the same person? I have not seen any indication of that.
If the answer is yes, then my pick would absolutely be McClain at #11. I wish he didn’t have Chron’s. :(
I also agree with you that we will be trading back…hopefully it is to somehow land both Pouncey and Iupati. lol Losing BMarsh will hurt, but it won’t require a round 1-2 pick to replace him. imo
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Agree
Anytime enjoy reading your post just giving you tough time. What do you think of Demariyus Thomas? If not for has broken foot I think he’d be a top 20 pick but at 45 he would be great value. Either way with or without a 2nd first round pick we need to draft Pouncey first then Iupati.
oc60
Great Mock Tim!
I don’t like denario, but as a 7th rnd pick, it become high potential for very low investment. Or I would go for another BIG NT/DT deep in the 7th. Even though with Chris Baker/E-Ped, I hope at least one if those guys pan out.
Your indepth analysis is what really impressed me… It’s nice to see excerpts from different sources. This is what provides substance to your mock. Gr8 job!
"Attitude reflects Leadership" Hogblog...aka KSM
Thanks Hog. :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
entertaining...
like th trenches being addressed. I would not be surprised by Gronkowski being drafted if we get an extra 2nd. good job.
by Orange and Blue on Apr 11, 2010 5:27 PM MDT reply actions
Thanks OB, and yeah, TE is always a possibility with McD.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Great Job!
Almost identical to the mock draft I made for the Broncos. I went CB instead of B. Carter. Great job though.
the difference between a dui and dwi
is the level of impairment. the phrase “anything major is a dui” is not correct, because a dwi is more major than a dui. (under the influence of vs. intoxicated by)
as long as you're paying attention
Well, according my Uncle - you go to prison for too many DUI's.... lol
Not sure I agree with your assessment, I’ll ask my cop brother for clarification. ;-)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
It still varied state by state, last I heard.
Usually, .05 is DWI and .08 or above is DUI. I used to work in that industry, but that was a lot of years ago.
It all starts with the lines
Yeah and my Uncle was always in the 1's. lmao
Especially when he drove his truck through the front doors of the quickie mart he worked at. whoops!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
The funny thing is
His employer couldn’t fire him for over 6 months or their insurance company wouldn’t have recognized it as an “employee accident”. lmao!!!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Not something I would happy with
Valuewise this draft is pretty horrible, but you are well aware of that fact.
Iupati is a reach at 11 and a guard that high has to be shrinkwrapped and ready to play from day 1, while Iupati will doubtlessly play from day 1 his technique is not nearly as polished as it should be for a guy to be drafted that high. As we saw in the senior bowl he gets his hands outside way too much and you could probably call a holding on him something like 1 in 3 plays, regardless of what type of block he is executing. Right now Odrick and Williams both seem like better value to me.
I genuinely like the Lamarr Houston pick, probably my favourite one here, he seems like a good fit at 3-4 DE and he is not a big reach in the 2nd in my book.
Tennant is a good pick, very vanilla which is fine.
Spikes in the 4th, I am just going to come out and say it, no. I have Spikes pencilled in for a Siler and Highsmith like slide deep into the late round or even out of the draft, we have seen plenty of people play well in that Florida defense including Jarvis Moss and Marcus Thomas so I have to admit it takes a LOT more than gamefilm from Florida to convince me. Spikes will at best, and even this I am not sure of, be a 2 down run stuffer, every TE and RB in the league will be smiling if they have to run a route covered by him, there are offensive tackles who could outrun him.
I don’t like guys who struggle when playing out of a 3 point stance, I know there have been a few distant rumblings about abolishing the 3 point stance but I doubt that will happen any time soon.
In the rare situations where he lines up with a hand on the ground, Carter’s get off is only adequate.
That has red flag all over it in my book.
All in all not too bad, addresses the major needs at OL, DL and ILB but I think too heavy on OL and I would really like to see a CB in there.
I don't agree with your trait list. Sounds good, but doesn't prove out.
“Those traits are athletic, tough, nasty, high character, strong, good work ethic, leader, and fearless.”
From what I saw, McX placed play making very high on his list (McBath, Smith, Moreno, McKinnley). He also likes older rookies (Ayers, Smith, Bradstater, Olsen). He likes drafting D early and O late, which the MSM failed to pick up on after the 2009 draft when they bitched about how many offensive players we drafted (we took three defenders in by the end of round 2). If you asked me, the trait play maker should replace fearless. What is fearless anyway? Can you name a prospect that fails this test?
I don’t think nasty fits the McD player either. Smith, Moreno, and Ayers struck me as hesitant and conservative with their play. That is pretty common for rookies. Guys like Maualuga, Oher, Sanchise, Harvin and Matthews played nasty. None of the Bronco rookies did.
I don’t know about leadership either. Which of our rookies were leaders in college or their 1st NFL season? Maybe they were all team captains, I don’t know. From their rookie years, not one of our 2009 draft picks stood out as someone with leadership traits. They were actually pretty timid across the board.
High character? That is questionable assumption based on our 2009 rookies. Ayers was arrested in college and suspended, Quinn was arrested as a Bronco, Baker was arrested and kicked off the Penn State team and Colquitt got TWO DUIs in college and kicked off his team. That is four rookies from the final 53 vs KC. I’m not saying he likes low lifes, but let’s keep it real vs lip service about character that doesn’t prove out in reality. We could have taken players were fewer character concerns at #18 overall, but McD choose to draft for need and potential vs character. McD will take a good football with questionable character vs a bad football player with noble character. He’ll lose him job if we lose football games and bad players = L in the NFL.
Strong??? Ayers did just 18 reps on the bench, one more than Jarvis Moss. I know there are lots of ways to test strength, but Ayers came in well below average in that test.
Athletic??? Maybe (Ayers and Bruton fit this bill), but Smith tested poorly for athletic skills (slow and lacks quickness, but very well in play making). Moreno was never regarded as a great athlete. He was known as a jack of all trades master of none in college. Not a speed guy, not a power guy or moves guy. But he was a play maker.
In my opinion.
by McGeorge on Apr 11, 2010 7:38 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
You just plum crack me up McG. You have to be one of the more pessimistic characters I’ve ever come across…
Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.
This line = you have nothing intelligent to say so you’ll say something meaningless. And yes, you have succeeded in your goal of bringing nothing to the table with this post.
In my opinion.
Listen, I made that comment mostly in jest, because you and I have sniped back and forth before in the past (as you have with everyone on this site, seemingly), and you generally put out the attitude that you could care less what anyone thinks around here. I didn’t expect you to get bent out of shape about it, and I’m rather surprised you did.
You generally take the “devil’s advocate” angle any time you choose to post, and as you’ve said directly to me before, “I’m just direct.” You love stirring the pot around here, it seems to be your only purpose for posting at times. It’s not like I called you a bad name or anything….
Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.
by aLuffabo on Apr 12, 2010 5:38 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I have NO role to play at MHR, nor do I care to take one. That would compromise my ability to be logical and come down on the side I feel is reasonable.
I don’t take any angle other than the angle that I feel is reasonable or logical based on the facts. That’s it. I don’t care about a pot or stirring a stupid pot. I care about what it right and what is fluff. Looks of good stuff at MHR but lots of fluff too. I generally attack the fluff.
If McD and everyone here keeps saying he wants versatile players and I point out the Hillis and Royal are supposedly versatile that fell apart under McD, Is that is stirring a pot? Not at all. It’s pointing out an inconsistency that keeps getting pushed around here. It’s not some kind of job for me to do that. I just point out the inconsistencies when I see them. That’s it.
Your comment was pointless and dumb. So I said so.
In my opinion.
Meh, more fluff from you. Reasonable and logical possibly, but also negative, demeaning, and unnecessary the majority of the time.
I like how you attacked my illusory pot, that was entertaining. “I care about what is right and what is fluff”? So now you think you’re the Sheriff, huh? For a guy who “has NO role to play at MHR, nor who cares to take one”, it sure sounds like you’ve annointed yourself as the “Truth Police”, or some other uninteresting curmudgeon that fills a need that wasn’t needed.
You’re too smart for this to be news to you, but it’s likely not your content that gets people up-in-arms, it’s the abrasive way you present yourself. Also, putting “In my opinion” in your sig line doesn’t give you carte blanche to say whatever you want in your posts and then get offended when other people get offended by you and fire back.
Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.
You are a king unto yourself.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Good points McGeorge
Unlike people that just slap the “pessimistic” label on you and move on, you’ve raised some very valid questions from the perspective of “let’s base this stuff off what we saw last year”.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
it's so difficult to establish 'traits' with so little info available....
You made some really good points McG! I feel like the points add to our knowledge rather than necessarily differing with Tim’s conclusions. It’s a process figuring out what we can essentially never know until after the fact, right?
by Whidbey Bronco on Apr 12, 2010 1:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks for the info Tim
Just checking…is Eric Decker not on your Big Board? He came in for a visit and seems to have a lot of the qualities McX would be looking for.
If he is omitted what was your reasoning? Other than that I thought your Big Board was dead on.
Thanks again for all the time and effort.
The QB position is set.
Decker is probably on the big board, but when I created it I didn't think he fit the mold...
McX obviously disagrees. lol
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Who knows, you may be right. Thanks for the response
The QB position is set.
by broncofaninIL on Apr 11, 2010 8:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Leadership?
I don’t know about leadership either. Which of our rookies were leaders in college or their 1st NFL season? Maybe they were all team captains, I don’t know. From their rookie years, not one of our 2009 draft picks stood out as someone with leadership traits. They were actually pretty timid across the board.
Interestingly, when Larsen was a rookie and step out a little at MLB, a couple of the veterans said bluntly, “No one is a leader as a rookie in this league.” If any were. how would we know? Pro athletes tend to be pretty good at keeping things inside the locker room.
But as far as leadership, almost every player that Denver drafted in 2009 was a team captain and/or on the Leadership council.
It all starts with the lines
I agree completely
Knowshon Moreno was a great example of a rookie coming in and becoming a leader.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Which guys were team captains?
I would suspect Smith, Bradstater and maybe Moreno, but I couldn’t name another.
Was Ayers? McBath? Bruton? I’m curious.
In my opinion.
here are snipets from nfldraftscout.com 2009 draft analysis
McBath: :“Became a more vocal leader as a senior, and has always tried to lead by example.”
Bruton: “A team captain, he has the size, speed and athleticism to potentially be a good starter and very good special teams player at the next level.”
Ayers: “Developed into a team leader as a senior.”
Moreno:"Extreme competitor who can put the team on his shoulders. Wants the ball with the game on the line. Moreno…has developed into a solid leader by example type. He is a quiet sort, respectful of his elders and has no known off-field issues. "
Quinn:“He is well-respected by his teammates and coaches, honoring with being one of the team captains for the 2008 season.”
by Orange and Blue on Apr 11, 2010 9:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Add Seth Olsen
Named to Leadership Group each year he was at Iowa (4 years)
It all starts with the lines
I believe Bruton and McBath will be the future at Safety when Dawk and Hill hang up the cleats...
by bfree2bronc on Apr 11, 2010 10:20 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree, bfree
By the way, there’s another ‘leadership player’ – Tom Brandstater. Team captain, 4 year QB, 3 year starter and captain. So, Smith is the only draft pick who made it out of training camp who wasn’t a captain or on the Leadership Group – and he’s the one who’s struggled the most.
It all starts with the lines
Whoops....no McG response?
It’s one thing to raise concerns and another to be negative for negatives sake.
I feel good about the 2009 draft class because I have yet to be given a reason not to feel good about them. Ask me again in 2012…
It’s not like we took Darius Heyward-Bey or JaMarcus Russell!!!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
by Tim Lynch on Apr 12, 2010 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Didn't you know?
A. Smith ran multiple 40s in 4.3 – 4.39, but he’s really slow. And he has a history of extreme quickness and excellent timing at the college level, but he has no quickness or timing. I don’t know what happened to him after the Cincy game, but he was never the same. At some point, I hope that we find the reason. He was plenty fast and agile that day, and in preseason. After that, as we all know, he struggled badly. What we don’t know is why.
I like McG’s willingness to take the other side and to attack sloppy thinking on the ‘too positive’ side. He’s often right, and the challenges themselves improve the discussions. It’s a major benefit to the site and to the discourse here, but there has been a tendency once in a while to make up or exaggerate things to ‘prove’ his points. I really do appreciate McG’s perspective, and this is not meant as a personal attack but accuracy is kind of important too. This one on leadership is pretty straight-forward. All but one draft pick who made it out of camp had a team captaincy or served on the Leadership Group, but McD didn’t draft for leadership qualities. Say what…?
It all starts with the lines
by Doc Bear on Apr 12, 2010 12:37 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
The thing I don’t get is that the Phonz wasn’t good before the Cincy game. He had a rough preseason to the point where Paige pointed out that the coaching staff was disappointed and surprised (in a bad way). The Phonz had one good game, Cincy.
I watched him a lot at Wake Forrest and he made a lot of plays. Hence, play maker.
Once I saw him in the NFL, he WAS/is slow. He also ran 4.5s at the combine. He may have run 4.3s by the stop watches of the Wake Forrest coaches, but you could clearly see that he is not a 4.3 player in the NFL. Not even close. But he also lacked quickness in 2009. If he was playing injured, shame on the training staff for putting Denver is such a bad spot. But at no point as a Bronco, pre or post ankle injury, did he look like a quick or fast NFL player.
On the flip side, I never thought he looked small. He looks about average size for a CB to me.
.
In my opinion.
I get you
He did run one of the three trials at Combine at 4.39, so when I match that to it wasn’t unusual that he does. Like a lot of football players, he was obviously not much at track, since his times were all over the board. I won’t bore you with a bunch of these, but this was pretty typical of the scouting reports (this one comes from the War Room, which means that at least part of it is from National Scouting which uses this 1-9 system.
Closing speed: Has the explosive closing burst to consistently make plays on the ball. Shows the playing speed to stay with receivers on deep routes. Grade: 8.5
I also saw him at Wake Forest, and we just saw different things, no big deal there. Same with camp – what I kept reading, like this from the Denver Daily was:
McDaniels has repeatedly called Smith a "first round talent" and also said that he was the best cornerback in this year’s draft on the Broncos’ draft board, and he is quickly showing his value thus far at training camp.
"He is competing every day, he is working on the little things and he has definitely showed up," McDaniels said. "He is always around the ball, he made an interception [yesterday] and got his hands on a few balls the last couple days."
by the way, I did an article on the leadership background of players, including the rookies, if you’re interested.
It all starts with the lines
If you saw him at Wake, I am vexed that you would say we saw different things. If you didn’t see a playmaker, I don’t think you were watching Smith.
In my opinion.
There’s a reason you are “vexed”, it’s because you misread Emmett’s post, and once again glossed over the point he made. Quote me the part where Emmett said he didn’t think Smith was a playmaker in college? He didn’t say it, you’re just arguing with yourself.
The point of Emmett’s post was to show you that Smith isn’t as slow as you so fervently love to claim. But again, you ignored the stats (4.39 40, which is fast, and the quote and grade from National Scouting), and claim that Emmett somehow disagreed with you on Smith’s playmaking abilities, which he never did.
I await your response where you tell me something else completely off-topic, and ignore the rest of the post.
Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.
I’ve quickly learned not to listen to anything McD says since he contradicts himself often. So I watch what he does instead. Actions>words. McD’s limited PT for Smith and his extended PT for guys like Law, Jack Williams and Carter told me all I need to know about how McD really feels about Smith.
That trade will be a tough on for McD to handle since it really put him on the spot and Smith as well. McD made a big gamble on that deal and traded away a ton of value to acquire the Phonz. But to McD’s credit, he chose not to play an underperforming “1st round talent” in lieu of putting better players (Carter, Law) on the field in 2009 or Nate Jones in 2010. That actually shows a lot of maturity from McD and impresses me. On the flip side, it does not bode well for Smith, since McD clearly won’t let his draft position as one of McD’s guys, dictate PT.
+1 for McD
-1 for the Phonz.
In my opinion.
By the way, you're right on the ankle
If it did bother him that much, he should have been rested. But what happened in terms of his loss of production still puzzles me. In TC, Goody said that he was progressing so fast that by the end of the year, he’d by one of the top nickel corners in the NFL, and Hill said that he looked like a veteran (end of TC). He has a great game and then tanks. I understand where you’re coming from on ‘slow’, even though I don’t agree. He has the speed – or did. He had a great burst, too, but not last season.
I’m looking at his performance during college, TC and then the season. After the Cincy game, he did look slow. My perspective is that he’s shown several times, including the 4.39 at Combine, that he can run like that, and he used to show a great explosive burst. Perhaps he just can’t make the jump to the NFL, but to start that well and then just lose it – there has to be some reason. I would like to find it out – and sure, “He just can’t play in the NFL” is one possibility.
It all starts with the lines
What puzzles you is pretty clear to me. The NFL is one level about Smith’s competency. 50% of 1st round picks reportely don’t pan out in the NFL. It happens, happens often.
Seeing all our rookies in 2009, Smith was the only one (maybe Olsen too) that jumped out as a guy that doesn’t belong in the NFL. All the other’s flashed enough for me to see that improvement will lead to NFL success. I really like McBath.
I saw a few good plays in one game for Smith. That’s it. His teammates tried to pick him up with postive reinforcement, but words without actions become hallow quite quickly don’t they.
You saw guys like Ayers pick up things from week to week. There was noticeable improvement. Never saw that with Smith though. He went from bad to worse to awful. When Nate Jones is the starting nickel CB in week one and Tony Carter is the dime guy, don’t be surprised.
In my opinion.
I won't be
I’d be inclined to wait another year – and we did both see playmakers at WF. I reread your comment – sure, looked great in college. I still saw something in TC, so I’ll give him this next year, but if he doesn’t make it, oh well. By the way, I read recently that Xanders pushed the trade, so that’s something I’ll watch for with him. As you say, we didn’t see anything from Olsen one way or the other, and just got a fun story (which seemed kind of ‘planted’ – big shock) about how he snapped over the QBs head on the shotgun) as to how he was doing.
I’m as excited about Bruton as i am McBath, but I think that McBath is greatly more polished. Bruton came with the ‘raw’ tag, and you could see that, but both his ST work and what little play I saw excited me – he really likes to hit. McBath is, though, much more polished, very smooth, and reputedly very bright, too. If Hill went down tomorrow, there would be a dropoff, but not much.
Dawkins is a creature from an alternate universe – someone else will play, but no one will replace him. Still – Bruton has that nastiness that you need in the NFL. Those two – McBath and Bruton – are quite a pair. Classic FS/SS. I keep wondering, though – what’s going to happen with Barrett? They kept playing WW, even though he was getting toasted regularly. I wondered why, and I suppose that the obvious answer is that they see something in Barrett that they aren’t comfortable with. He, too, came with a ‘very raw’ tag, and in the 7th round at that.
It all starts with the lines
“I don’t know about leadership either. Which of our rookies were leaders in college or their 1st NFL season? Maybe they were all team captains, I don’t know. From their rookie years, not one of our 2009 draft picks stood out as someone with leadership traits. They were actually pretty timid across the board.”
This is clearly something I’m asking. I’m not saying our rookies were not leaders in college, I just asking for some detail. I didn’t see any leadership from these guys as rookies, but then again, I didn’t really expect to see any either. So I ASKED about their college careers.
In my opinion.
Fair enough
Perhaps I’m misreading your intention. I thought that you were being pretty specific in pointing out what you thought were facts, when apparently you were asking questions. If I misread you, I apologize.
On the leadership issue – As one of the Broncos put it to a reporter, ‘When you’re a rookie, you’re not a leader’. It was a statement made in response to Larsen starting that week at Mike, and the player being asked if Larsen ‘was a good leader’. Sort of by definition, if you’re a rookie, you’re the low man on the totem pole (QBs drafted to start immediately are, of course, a different issue).
My question to you is, “How would we know if a player was or wasn’t leading, unless a player in the locker room made such a statement?” I doubt that any of the rookies were leading, because it really isn’t their job. The quality of leadership does carry over from the college level to the pros, but there is a long term consideration. When these players become starters over time, the belief is that they will be more comfortable leading when it’s their turn, because they’ve done it in the past. I thought that this:
From their rookie years, not one of our 2009 draft picks stood out as someone with leadership traits. They were actually pretty timid across the board."
…was a statement, rather than a fact. “They were actually pretty timid” is a declarative, rather than an interrogatory statement, and that is the kind of thing that confused me. I don’t know how you define “pretty timid” – did any of them say something that you thought was timid? Is there some source on this? Don’t bother answering if I’m just missing the point, but I’m am trying to understand where you’re coming from.
It all starts with the lines
The best thing about my posts is that they always end with IMO.
The rookies were pretty timid in 2009. No one jumped out like an Eddie Royal, Hillis or Wesley Woodyard did in 2008.
Moreno jumps around and looks happy (I like that), but you don’t see him getting after anyone or other such things you saw from a Woodyard in 2008.
I don’t expect rookies to be leaders, but I didn’t see any leadership from the rookie class in 2009. I did see that in 2008 with several of those rookies. But I think part of being a leader means playing like a leader and none of our 2009 draft picks played well enough to lead by their actions.
In my opinion.
Yes, your sig - and the article that spawned it - crack me up.
McBath tied for the lead in ST tackles, which shows me some leadership. Bruton was the – what’s the new term, personal protector? – for the ST returner. I’m honestly not sure what kind of leadership you’re looking for, but we’ll find out over time. Both of us like the safeties of the d2009 class, and they will eventually have to be the QBs of the defense. Hill and Dawkins also share that responsibility, so the younguns are getting quite the education.
It all starts with the lines
You are just looking at the wrong thing. Zappa’s assertion that McDaniels and Xanders go after players with strong leadership and intangibles (which is correct), was based on the fact that they were predominantly captains in college, well respected and well-liked teammates in college, and good kids who mostly stay out of trouble.
He was in no way referring to their play with the Denver Broncos as an indication of their leadership abilities. You took that slant yourself and ran with it. It’s actually perplexing that you judge a player and their leadership skills based on their rookie season. With the exception of our two first-rounders, most of the rookies didn’t see extended playing time as they were backing up solid/spectacular veterans. What do you want the rookies to do? Hold a team meeting on the sidelines in the middle of the game and lecture the starters on what they’re doing wrong? I can just imagine how well that would go, as McBath says to Dawkins, “You’re dogging it out there, now come on! Get in the game!” Not going to happen.
As far as your assumption that they’re not leaders because they didn’t produce enough as rookies… THEY’RE ROOKIES! In the cases of McBath, Bruton, Olsen, and Brandstater, they weren’t drafted with the intention of getting any real playing time in their rookie years. They are there to learn and improve. McBath and Bruton excelled on ST’s, which you already know, and you’ve already said you approve of those two. Still, how are rookies who were drafted to learn behind solid veteran players supposed to exhibit leadership?
In the case of Moreno, he led the league for rookie rushers. He’s a constant positive locker room presence, striving to learn and improve. Can’t ask for much else from the young man.
Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.
by aLuffabo on Apr 12, 2010 5:57 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nail....Head. Thanks aLuffabo.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Are you guys kidding? Still cherry picking a leadership issue you both misinterpreted in the first place. I get it, you guys misinterpreted my question about leadership. You don’t need to keep making a straw man argument and proving it out.
Try talking about the other points in my post about character or play making or nasty or strong or athletic.
I’m acutely aware that you can win your own straw man augments. You don’t need to convince me of that, I’m already convinced.
In my opinion.
I replied to your post, you know, the post where you were talking about leadership.
For once, try not deflecting, and respond to the actual content instead of finding a way to spin things in your favor.
Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.
by aLuffabo on Apr 13, 2010 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Forgive me your worshipfulness.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
You also have to remember that the 2008 rookie class set the bar VERY high and the 2009 class has reset the bar pretty low. For having FIVE 1nd and 2nd round picks, we didn’t get much out of them in year 1 and more importantly, we can’t say we’re THIS close with those guys. None of them jumped out as potential stars and the holdouts really set back Moreno and Ayers. Our rookie class was somewhat disappointing, that might be IMO, but it is shared by many many NFL people.
You also have to remember that I disliked our 2009 draft since day one. I HATED the Smith trade, didn’t like the Quinn trade or that pick, didn’t like the Ayers pick, didn’t like the Bradstater trade or pick, didn’t like the Olsen pick, didn’t understand why we didn’t draft an ILB and I really wanted Orakpo at 12 (he had 11 sacks as a rookie so I’m still pissed about that). I’m jaded to being with when it comes to our 2009 rookies. Their subpar play as a whole in 2009 didn’t make things any better.
In my opinion.
Yep, I'm 'aware' of your feelings on 2009
No worries. Ayers and Moreno were quite similar to me. I wrote a couple of predraft articles on the possibility of us choosing Moreno (didn’t think that we would, until we got the extra 1st round pick) and the problems that I expected him to have if we did. His running style struck me as less than a perfect fit with the ZB scheme, and as it turned out, he struggled pretty well with it. You could often almost hear him saying “Hmmm, Ok, what do I do now?” I think that the power scheme – whichever one we settle on – will suit him far better.
Ayers, though, may yet be the class of the class. I understand why people didn’t like the pick, but as the season went on, I saw a young player, learning a new position, who kept improving each week. Going into college with that rotten attitude – and finding himself in legal and team trouble as a result – seemed to end up in him really making a change. It also meant that he sat behind a good senior in 2007, but he was ready for his chance in 2008. I thought that he continued that improvement in 2009 – we’ll get to see this year. I don’t think that he’ll peak for some years yet, in part due to the ‘late bloomer’ issue, but man, he has some serious skills. The play where he was placed at NT, took on a double team, did a spin move to the right, fought it off and hurried the QB sold me. That was as pretty a defensive more as I saw this past year.
And that’s probably a lot of why we don’t entirely agree – I’m seeing a pretty nice group, overall. smith has shown nothing, but Moreno did well and the new scheme will help him (so will not getting hit behind the LOS 40% of the danged time) and I expect Ayers to continue to improve. The two young safeties look like nice picks, and since we now know that Olsen is going to play in a scheme that matches him better, I’ll give him the usual 2 years for an OL before I even consider a judgment. Quinn didn’t do well, though – the knock was that he didn’t pick up the complex schemes well. Maybe in time he’ll catch on- he did block very well on returns, to be fair to him.
It all starts with the lines
My biggest issues with the 2009 draft were the Phonz, Quinn, Bradstater and Ayers.
If we end up going one for four on those picks, it’s a pretty big setback for McX and the Broncos. We needed to put the bat on the ball in the 2009 draft with so many picks (high picks) and I think we hit a foul. If we did, it will have unfortunate consequences on McD’s future as well as Denver’s chance of being a playoff team in the next two years.
I don’t think we’re close based on how 2009 ended, but we will be if those 2009 rookies start to bear fruit on Sunday or guys like Eddie, Brady Quinn and/or Orton make huge strides. Going off what I saw in 2009, I don’t see this happening with the rookies, nor do I see it happening for Orton.
I don’t expect a response, this is IMO.
In my opinion.
What is/was your complaint on Brandstater?
McDaniels has a connection with Joe Hill at FSU. Brandstater meets the QB description that Belichick and McDaniels are drafting to exactly (There will be an article on that later this week, hopefully). It’s expected that he’s going to sit for a couple of years (perhaps a few) before he’s ready for the NFL, but that’s a change back that I like – there are a few QBs who are ready out of college, but not many. If Hill felt strongly enough and the tape backed up what he said, I don’t understand the rush to judgment.
It all starts with the lines
How did that 2008 draft turn out for us now? You act like we struck gold in that draft.
Of course, Clady was, is, and will continue to be a super stud. Our best draft pick in a long time.
Let’s look at the rest of it:
Eddie Royal: Obviously, he lit it up in his first year. Last year, not so much. It’s all about the long term. I love Eddie, and hope he regains his terrific form in his second season in the new system.
Kory Lichtensteiger: Off the team, no impact.
Jack Williams: Had his moments, cut last year.
Ryan Torain: No impact. Injury problems. Cut.
Carlton Powell: Injury problems. No impact. Cut.
Spencer Larsen: Still on the team, has had some injury problems, still improving, love the guy. Solid pick for the 6th round, even if his career ends up being as a demon ST’er and good blocking FB, instead of the LB I think he can be.
Josh Barrett: Still on the team, has shown that he is raw but talented, still improving. Hopefully, he will continue to improve and become our go-to TE coverage specialist more often.
Peyton Hillis: Terrific rookie year, horrible second year, traded away for a backup QB.
So, 5 out of 9 players from the 2008 draft aren’t on the team anymore. 1 is a super-duperstar, and the other 3 have shown promise but still have question marks.
If that’s your measuring stick for a successful draft, I can already guarantee you that the 2009 draft was supremely better. Remember, we’re drafting to build a team in the long term here, not to have a crappy team where rookie’s can come in and put up terrific numbers.
Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.
You have to remember that I think McD really screwed up a good thing with Royal and Hillis. Looked to me like we had three stars in one draft class which equals an awesome draft. Factor in Larson as a great ST guy and Barrett’s role for a 7th round pick. I also consider undrafted rookies a part of a draft class so I liked Woodyard as well.
Post McD, now we have one star (Clady – whom regressed a little in 2009) and a few maybe long term players from that draft. I put a lot of that on McD and he seems to as well since he keeps talking about how he misused Royal last season. He had no idea what to do with Hillis and it’s not like Moreno or Buck were lighting it up so much that we had to play them over Hillis. Both those guys struggled as well.
In my opinion.
To be fair about Hillis
He was given several opportunities and blew every one but running out the clock in the first KC game. You’re claiming that this is because ‘McD doesn’t know what to do with him’. Fine by me – got a source? Any kind of evidence, other than the fact that after Hillis screwed up his chances, he wasn’t given more except on STs, where he still wasn’t that good? How is Hillis not making use of his opportunities McD’s fault?
Buck and Moreno – Buck wasn’t lighting WHAT up? Did you check his ypc? That’s a pretty silly statement. As far as KM, the fact is, Moreno has vastly more skill than Hillis – and it gets developed as much or more in game time as in practice, so of course he’s going to get the playing time. Using a two player rotation is pretty normal. How is that "had no idea what to do "?
What irritates people – and this may simply be intentional, I don’t know – is that you make absurd, usually hostile statements (as in how McD doesn’t know what to do) intermixed with very reasonable debate. You do duck when someone questions you and act as if you’re being mistreated – when you claimed that all you did was ask questions, I pointed out that this statement -
From their rookie years, not one of our 2009 draft picks stood out as someone with leadership traits. They were actually pretty timid across the board.
is a declarative statement. It’s not a question – it’s a statement that the players were pretty timid. I asked for an example or a source and received nothing. Many questions are purely rhetorical – if they are mixed with declarative statements such as those that claim incompetence on the part of McD, in this example, they are often taken as rhetorical. There’s nothing unusual there.
If it’s all just to get a rise out of people, that’s cool with me. If you choose to be a voice for debate, that’s great – I think that it helps the site. Just don’t get insulted when people actually quote and debate you.
It all starts with the lines
by Doc Bear on Apr 13, 2010 1:17 PM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
Can't wait to see Knowshon running behind a beastly power run OL.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
glad I could provide
something here. I like reading your views, McG. Not that I agree with some/most of them, but as Emmett Smith says, you bring a different perspective that’s well-reasoned from where you sit.
by Orange and Blue on Apr 12, 2010 5:02 PM MDT up reply actions
sometimes no
and sometimes yes. but that’s the interesting part.
by Orange and Blue on Apr 12, 2010 6:20 PM MDT up reply actions
DE in the second?
We just brought in Bannan and Green, and with the addition of Jamal williams at NT, Fields can move to DE. Ryan McBean will be starting just his second year (not counting PS) and Marcus Thomas is ready to break out (IMO) after being bounced around the line for a couple years.
Give me Gerhart in the second.
Also, Walton before Tennant maybe – I read somewhere that Walton did good against Suh when Baylor played Nebraska last year.
Teach us, Lord, to meet adversity; but not before it arrives.
The Talmud
The draft is the deepest in years on the DL...I don't see how the Broncos don't pick up a lineman early. :)
I like Walton too…personally, I’d be happy with either.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Off topic (sort of) but the Jets acquire Santonio Holmes
from the Steelers, for a 5th rounder. Link
Pretty sure we can cross the Jets off list of teams who might have been interested in Marshall.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Voted FAIL
1) Because you put that in the survey. I’m a big fan of “FAIL”. It is a very eloquent term. :)
2) Because you slapped McClain into a box and shipped him off. Yes, Doc says to be cautious, but that was also with Doc not having seen McClain’s charts. We have no evidence that says how serious his Crohn’s is. I’m okay if our team skips him at 11 because they don’t like his charts, but if we pick him, I for one will be ecstatic.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Honestly,
what caused me to run for the hills was learning that Chron’s goes in and out of remission. The guy hasn’t been the same player since it obviously came out of remission soon before the Title Game. He was a non factor in that game, missed the Combine over a month later, horrible Pro Day where he finally had to admit to the world he had the disease.
What if his disease was in remission during his entire college career and now he is not even close to being the same guy he was then? That’s why I boxed him up and shipped him out. I really wish I didn’t have too…I’d love to have the dominate McClain on our team – but I think he is currently the too sick to play McClain.
Thanks for the FAIL…I should have put EPIC FAIL in there just for old times sake. :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Tim's right
Seeing his chart, in this case, wouldn’t change my opinion. The Crohn’s may have taken McClain out of the title game and it did affect his Combine and Pro Day. That’s a lot right there, but it’s not the worst part. The worst part is that his chart doesn’t mean anything, because the disease is capricious – the flares are common, they often get much worse and past history doesn’t appear to have any bearing on future flares or lack of them.
I think that I should turn this into an app and just tap the button when it comes up – I keep wondering why it’s so hard to comprehend. I hope for the best for the young man; he’s obviously highly talented and yet no one can know (which is why the opinions are kind of strange) what course the disease will follow. We do know that the odds are against him, and that’s about it.
It all starts with the lines
Since Tim's right and I'm wrong
I sure hope you guys clue in the other 31 teams so they let McClain fall into the 2nd round where we can then pick him up as a better “risky” pick.
What I’ve said all along is that I will trust what our coaching staff does. They have medical experts that work with the team and can properly assess what kind of risk he is. To properly gauge that IMMHO, you must see his history… What kind of Crohn’s is it? (Yes there is more than one kind) What has his pattern been so far for flare ups and remission? How long has his remission been going on? What medications has he been on for it and what effect have they had?
There are several types of medications available for Crohn’s …much like there are for AIDS. So far nothing will cure it, but there have been leaps and bounds in the effect they can have on the disease itself.
I have totally read your opinions on the situation Doc and I do think it is VERY important to accurately look at the disease and the risk it brings to how a player can perform. I just think that saying, “Oh Nohs! Crohn’s = suck. We’d better not even consider drafting him at 11” is a tremendously foolish way to handle things. I think the more sensible thing to do is consult with experts who have more information than we do (Web MD, Wikipedia, etc) and let them advise on whether to make the pick or not.
This isn’t like some risky pick that will go unmentioned where you have a landfill full of evidence against his being a NFL player. McClain can play. He has been playing for a long time with this disease.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Say it again...
Tim’s right…yes…ahhhhh…
:)
Wish I could respond, gotta head home…will try to get back on later to catch up here. lol
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Tim's right, Em's right, Tim's right, Em's right
Sadaraine, on this subject you don’t have the knowledge that medical professionals do. There will likely be teams who don’t have as much medical expertise as MHR who will choose him, or the coaching staff will ignore the medical problem due to wishful thinking or lack of understanding their medical experts. They’ll still be wrong. And for the record I wouldn’t take him in the second round either.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein
by Ponderosa on Apr 12, 2010 5:47 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not professionale...I was being an arse. lmao!!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Yes, but you stayed at a Holiday Inn last night
- to get away from the crying baby…..lol. Been there.
It all starts with the lines
I'm also Bob with a big ass smile on my face all the time and a big ole bo....ahh, nevermind.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
yeah you should have :)
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
Personally I believe #11 is way to high for Iiupati.
I also feel the same way about Pouncey at 11, but, believe it is not as much a reach there as Iiupati is. Haven’t done my research on Houston, but if that is as big a reach as you say why do it. The rest is reasonable to me, but I give an overall grade of C for you draft. Of course that’s just my opinion.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
Excellent Series
I always enjoy your posts but this time you have really outdone yourself. The extraordinary depth and insight wonderfully sewn together kept me thoroughly enthralled even as I was on vacation in HI reading on my phone. Cheers, fellow San Diegan!
destructofisto
by stuckinsandiego on Apr 13, 2010 1:33 AM MDT reply actions
Thanks man!
I was born there, but now I am “stuckinsacramento”. lol Enjoy the beaches!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Made it an A by having Alexander in there!
Otherwise I would have gone B…..We could swap Pouncey and Iupati, and I’d be happy as well….
Well done and I wouldn’t be disappointed if this came true!
"Brandon Marshall will be a happy BRONCO WR in 2010"
Broncotodd - 2009
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
Thanks Todd.
The BMarsh situation is going to change everything though. lol
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Because I didn't think they fit the mold....apparently they do. lol
I blame my lack of knowledge of Xanders mindset…
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
cough...bullshit...cough
propaganda…cough
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

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