Holmes ripple effect
by JAYson G on Apr 11, 2010 10:22 PM MDT
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PrintWith Santonio Holmes being shipped to the Jets for a 5th round pick in this years draft I immediately thought of Brandon Marshall and more importantly his trade value. If a Superbowl mvp, #1 WR, 26 year old who had much less off field issues than our own B Marshall can be had for a 5th rounder than maybe teams like Seattle start to think they can have Marshall for a 4-7th round pick. Now there are reports that Holmes will be suspended for the first four games because of smoking pot and getting caught and the investigation is still on going about an incident at a night club where he allegedly threw a glass bottle at a woman and that is why is value might be a little down. However a man came out today and publicly refuted that story and admitted it was him who threw it. Also no one has confirmed he will miss the first four games due to a suspension. Compare that to Marshall's past and it looks like he's a saint. Now i know you shouldn't base a trade on someone else's stupid trade but still this will certainly not help raise Marshall's value. The upcoming weeks should be very interesting around here.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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This is a crazy move
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by TheAngelsColts on Apr 11, 2010 10:27 PM MDT reply actions
The Steelers only got a 5th rounder...
because Holmes is in legal trouble, is getting suspended for substance abuse, and has one year left on his contract.
Not to mention, Marshall is much better than Holmes.
Although Brandon may be a trouble maker, he definitely not in the same situation.
Honestly it may help Marshall’s value, WR is a huge need for the Steelers now, it would make sense for them to sign him to an offer sheet.
by black_knight101 on Apr 11, 2010 10:30 PM MDT reply actions
Granted Marshall is a better player than Holmes
But their situations are similar. Holmes should get four games, but have it reduced to two games. Thats what happened when Jerrod Allen received his second DWI. I would guess a second herb foul would equal a second drunk cop encounter but I’m not a lawyer.
Marshall is one dumb thing away from a similar suspension. Both are on one years deals and our 26, Marshall is going to command way more money, but is better.
The problem is this trade with certainly devalue Marshall, and the Broncos should have traded him a long time ago. As the draft approaches draft picks become more valuable; and teams can get hosed like this easily.
Stand Pat
I think its a blessing and as the draft draws closer which team will surrender their #1 pick? I say none, BM stays for another year and maybe a new contract if he stays out of trouble.
oc60
If he wanted to stay here
he would be here. We offered him a contract already and he said no.
I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything - John Elway
October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
The contract was incentive laden
With loopholes in case of suspension, etc. BM wanted guaranteed money.
Teach us, Lord, to meet adversity; but not before it arrives.
The Talmud
well
I highly doubt we are going to throw down guarenteed money next off season either. Any contract we throw at him is going to be full of incentives. Nothing is going to change. So like I said, if he waned to be here, he would have signed it.
I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything - John Elway
October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
I don't know
Next year he will be a UFA, with 31 other teams offering him a contract without having to give up a first round pick. Denver then would have to at least match the best offer to keep him. If he’s stayed out of trouble the whole time, he’ll probably be offered a top dollar contract. But who knows?
Teach us, Lord, to meet adversity; but not before it arrives.
The Talmud
But Holmes is already getting a 4 game ban and...
there’s a possiblilty of another to follow…Surely that’s why his value is so low?
Marshall will leave Denver with only a possibility of a ban if his future conduct is bad. No bearing!
However, a second round pick with another later round pick does look like the going rate in these CBA times!
There is no correlation
Holmes was GIVEN away by the Steelers. The Broncos have a HIGH value for Brandon Marshall, and are content to keep him if they don’t receive the compensation they desire. If any team thinks they are getting Marshall for a 4th-7th, they need to quit smoking whatever Santonio Holmes is.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
Teams start to panic once the clock starts on draft day.
If we don’t get a first for Marshall, it’s because MxD didnt want it. Can’t wait til we can get past this. Draft is coming sooooo slowly.
Anybody think that this move forces division foe, Miami, into a Marshall move?
People in Miami are freaking out right now. They want a receiver and they want one badly.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
Absolutely
Marshall or Dez. That’d give us some serious flexibility in the draft, picking 11 and 12. I don’t want their scraps (ronnie and ginn jr.). I’d take their first round pick though.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Apr 12, 2010 7:40 AM MDT up reply actions
Also makes the Pats a viable candidate for Marshall
Their WR situation isn’t exactly warm fuzzies
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Apr 12, 2010 7:41 AM MDT up reply actions
Definitely
Let the bidding war begin. If we can get multiple teams interested (Seattle, Miami, NE, Pittsburgh), maybe we could get a Cutler-type haul with 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders. Thoughts?
My morning has gotten brighter ever since the Holmes story broke. There are lots of teams out there that could use Brandon Marshall right now.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Apr 12, 2010 7:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Absolutely Digger. +1
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Apr 12, 2010 8:00 AM MDT up reply actions
In what way?
We have sucked (by Bronco standards) the last three years, and Marshall has been here all three. We also had our best passing game of the year against KC without him. So while Marshall is a fantastic talent, no denying that, I don’t know that you can claim factually that we are “better with him than without him”, because we’re a .500 team the last three seasons.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Apr 12, 2010 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Yep
Changing the culture of a team can be difficult. Brandon is alternately a delightful, funny guy, a childish buffoon and a brilliant player – when he wants to be. That can take it’s toll on the locker room. I keep reading on football and book after book comments on the importance, and the delicacy, of maintaining a positive attitude in the locker room. Apparently, it’s tough.
Marshall is a great example of a guy who is a no-win situation. If you keep him – he wants to be paid, so eventually he’ll sign his tender – you can start to franchise him the following season, I believe, but you can’t stop him from the kind of up and down behavior that he’s established. If you do keep him, he’s one act away from a major suspension and he has yet to get through a year without incidents, on and off the field. His most recent was the silliness about the hamstring, and there was the punt during camp and that suspension. It’s always something.
Fans will complain if you trade him, pointing out that he’s one of the top 5 receivers when you look at 3 straight years of 100 catches. They’ll also be worried if Denver keeps him, and with good reason. Like I said – I really don’t know how you can win in this situation. It pretty much defines ‘dilemma’. The Broncos have been a .500 club with him – does that suggest that they might be better without him, or that they will really struggle?
It all starts with the lines
Against KC
We had our best passing game against KC in a game we lost.
Lets do it agains thet Jets defense and then we’ll talk. Gabar is a good receiver but a #1 receiver he is not.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Apr 12, 2010 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions
WTF?
Are you counting the two Int’s returned for TDs as a positive for Denver in that KC nightmare?
Orton killed us in that game with those two terrible throws. If a game with two pick-6 TDs is our best passing game of the year, God help us and also help Orton.
In my opinion.
Correct, and a lot of it may have had to do with the fact that we were playing from behind
But that doesn’t change the fact that we moved the ball through the air for 431 yards, which was easily our best total of the season. Point is, we can move the ball through the air without Brandon Marshall, and without two bonehead throws, we could easily have been over 500 yards and two TD’s the other way.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Apr 12, 2010 12:08 PM MDT up reply actions
We got the necessary wins to be .500 because of guys like Marshall, Elvis, and Clady.
We got the necessary losses to be a .500 team because of guys like Manuel, Webster, the Phonz and Hochstein.
In my opinion.
To a degree
The defense, though filled with scrubs, still had its moments in 2007/08.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Apr 12, 2010 12:09 PM MDT up reply actions
That'd be sweeet
Legwold over at the DP says he interviewed personnel guys from all over the league, and the consensus was that the Broncos would trade Marshall and get less than a first round pick. I started laughing out loud. If teams don’t want to give up a first round pick, they need to realize that the Broncos are getting a pro bowl receiver for less than 2 million dollars, and they don’t HAVE to trade him at all.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Apr 12, 2010 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions
Yeah. It seems that MHR is the only place with that information.
Really, it’s just common sense. I think the MSM gets in the habit of circulating poor ideas. I don’t know where the “Broncos MUST get rid of Brandon Marshall” assumption came from, but it is becoming very popular. You’re right, Sayre. Great points.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Apr 12, 2010 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions
Chill out Holmes!
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Apr 12, 2010 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions
If by "chill out" you mean "do a J", then Santonio Holmes is already one step ahead of you.
hahaha, oh society…..
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Apr 12, 2010 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions
2.521 mil.
not less than 2 mil this year. Doom gets $600,000 more than BM because of the 1st and 3rd tender. supposedly Marshall opted for the 1st round only one so he could draw more interest. Another decision in his life that seems to be backfiring. I could see where he would be deemed expendable if an outrageous offer sheet was given and we would get a #1 pick in the process. Now that that hasn’t happened and there is only 3 more days left for that to happen I’m thinking he will stay. We are not going to give him away. Next year, if there is a next year, they can entertain regular trade talks. If no one is willing to give us what we want then we will just franchise him.
McDaniels has stated that he set the bar at a first round tender so Marshall could test the market.
I believe the only team to openly show interest was Pete Carrolls Seattle Seahawks, but that doesn’t mean there hasn’t been other inquiries as to what it would take to pry Marshall loose from the Broncos. The answer thus far has been a ‘first’ rounder pick and nothing else that I know of. If we listen the MSM and the garbage they spew then we would be looking for anything to send him packing including throwing in Scheffler for a 7th rd pick in 2012. Mike Klis stated openly that he thinks Marshall’s days are numbered in Denver and I don’t necessarily believe him or anybody else. I still believe the Broncos and Marshall could have a great working relationship once contract negotions ever get done with (or even start). marshall getting married in mile high denver might have some clues laced into it if we want to read it that far. Why didn’t he get married in Miami of S Florida with the Home boys? Does that make sense? I doubt if he had them come to Denver. How many of the Bronco players were in attendance? Any at all? I’m sure there must of been some, where was the MSM then? Not invited? Did they have a secret, private ceremony? Is Marshall being believable when he says he wants to play in Denver and he likes the area? Now that the Darrent Williams murder trial is over has he somehow come to peace with the notion he once stated he hated Denver and wished he was out of there? Denver is a city that can graow on you over time, maybe he has just come to realize what a great city it is and you don’t have to put up with the 20-30 shooting a night in S Florida’s Dade county. I don’t know what the answers are, I’m as much in the blind of know as anyone else around here and I would only be speculating to what holds for Denver and Marshall. Part of me wants him gone and part of me wants him here, I just get tired of the antics and grief he has given us and hope it’s all over with.
Getting married in Denver says a lot
I didn’t realize he did that. My guess is that Denver is doing just what they said – letting Marshall test the market, and he’s finding out that he’s not as sought after as he thought, because of his issues. If some team does give him a contract, I figure he’s gone. If not, I think Denver tells him he has to play here for the 2 million, and if he stays out of trouble for a year, Denver will be in the bidding for him next year.
Teach us, Lord, to meet adversity; but not before it arrives.
The Talmud
False
This whole idea of letting him find out his true value is a false assumption that the posters here at MHR keep repeating with no merit. He’s a restricted free agent. Therefore his value is immediately downgraded due to the package that Denver would receive.In this case, Denvers insistence on a first round draft pick in return for Marshall.
If Marshall was an unrestricted free agent he wouldve signed the highest deal in free agency this summer. That would be his true value.
By the same token, you’re basically saying Dumervil’s value isnt that great either since no one is talking to him. Or Orton, whose also “testing the market”.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Apr 12, 2010 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Finally someone making some sense
I didnt have the energy to explain why Marshall being a RFA has no parallel whatsoever to a free market system. A lot readers here seem to believe the tender would allow other teams to determine is value, which is nothing short of garbage.
Holmes is being suspended for the 1st four games of 2010 for violating the league’s substance abuse policy (smoking pot).
That is a huge strike against a player so I’m not sure why you would assume he is much less of a character risk than BM. He is one more dope smoking positive test from missing an entire football season. That is very very serious.
In my opinion.
Hence the 5th round pick.
This has no effect on Marshall, other than the Jets are not lying when they said they weren’t interested in him. The Steelers dumped him while they could still get something and the Jets got a good WR(if he gets his act together) to replace Edwards when he’s gone next year.
The Steelers were going to get cut Holmes, anyways.
http://www.sbnation.com/2010/4/12/1416926/santonio-holmes-trade-steelers-release
The fact that they got anything is a plus for them. Certainly, that’s not going to comfort Steeler fans, who think they got screwed, but a 5th rounder is better than nothing.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
I don't know
if the two situations are related. This may however be an indication of the trading market for WR’s. Teams don’t seem to want to give up anything substantial for WR’s especially ones with troubled pasts.
The point above was that Marshall’s true value is determined by the contract he signs as an unrestricted free agent. But what someone is willing to pay a player is different than what someone is willing to give up for a player. What’s of interest to us isn’t his monetary value it’s his trade value. That is yet to be determined. We’ll see what it is when he gets traded.
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