In a perfect world, the Broncos trade down
by John Bena on Apr 21, 2010 8:44 AM MDT
in 2010 NFL Draft - Denver Broncos
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PrintI'll be giving my thoughts on various draft issues regarding the Broncos over the next day. The posts won't be long, not by MHR standards anyway, and will be more 'from the hip' than you might be used to. To start, I think we can all agree the Broncos would love the opportunity to trade down tomorrow night. Now, with the Draft less than 48 hours away, there is talk that the Broncos could be in a good position to do it, as Adam Schefter explains(Hat Tip McGeorge) -
An off-season filled with trades could continue straight into Thursday night’s NFL draft, and picks 10 through 12 might be where the action will happen.
A cluster of teams — No. 10 Jacksonville, No. 11 Denver and No. 12 Miami — is interested in moving back in the draft, according to multiple league sources.
Meanwhile, another cluster of teams — No. 18 Pittsburgh, No. 23 Green Bay and No. 24 Philadelphia — is interested in moving up in the draft.
Teams will be cautious about trading into Jacksonville’s spot at No. 10 because the team that picks might have to negotiate off the complex deal that San Francisco and Michael Crabtree struck last season.
Crabtree, who fell to No. 10 in the 2009 draft and held out through training camp and the opening weeks of the season, signed a contract paying him more than the picks taken ahead of him, setting a tricky precedent for teams at that slot this year.
Denver’s spot at No. 11, one spot ahead of Miami, could have more appeal because the Crabtree contract would not be looming over it.
That situation with the Jags is intriguing. In most years, teams and agents look at the prior year for a guide on contract parameters. Michael Crabtree's never-ending hold-out made that situation a mess. That could keep teams from dealing with the Jags for fear there could be some sign-ability issues.
So, should the Broncos not be able to select Rolando McClain, could the Broncos move to the low-teens, early-twenties for a shot at Maurkice Pouncey?
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I'm really hoping they do trade down...I see more value there than McClain
And I like McClain a lot
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
I am pretty much always in favor of trading down. Mo picks = mo better.
What a drag it is getting old. - Mick
I like the idea of trading down to pick up another pick or two if we are lucky but.........
It is not inconceivable that if we trade down to 23 or 24 that Pouncey, Dan Williams, Bryant, Iupati, Weatherspoon, Odrick and McClain will all be off the board. Where would that leave us?
+1
Pittsburgh is as far down as I’d go. After that, you start losing flexibility and options, IMO.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on Apr 21, 2010 9:13 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree PO
Pouncey should be available there and at a premium spot for value. They just signed Leftwich. Perhaps Pittsburgh needs a new QB? nah.
Or could they…
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
NFL Network analysts Marshall Faulk, Brian Billick, Michael Irvin, Steve Mariucci and Charles Davis, as well as host Rich Eisen, gathered at Le Parker Meridien, a luxury hotel in Manhattan, Tuesday evening and participated in a mock draft roundtable. In their mock Iupati was not taken in the first round!!!
The point I’m making is we have no real idea when or were some of these players outside of the top 4 or 5 are going.
Who thought in the 2009 draft Tyson Jackson would go #3, who though Heyward-bey would go #7 to the Raiders and who thought Rey Maualuga would drop to the second round? None of us!!!
I say if we are to trade back, as long as the compensation is right, trade as far back into the first round as we can and select the best player available at that point.
No lower than #20 Houston, I hope
otherwise, we are risking a bit much of getting a top tier player.
by Orange and Blue on Apr 21, 2010 9:05 AM MDT reply actions
Houston is a good call
They have a need for a CB and Haden could still be on the board at 11 – especially if the situation goes in a way that means McClain isn’t there.
Trade down is a must for ultimate value
I think regardless of McClain being there or not … we need to trade down.
I like Phily as a trade partner (the Scheffler trade may help the process). As others recently posted, we can trade down to 24 and pick up 37 and 55 if we trade them 11 and 43. We can move up in the 2nd round and find a higher quality player, pick up another 2nd rounder in a very deep draft and look for Pouncey, Iupati, or Weatherspoon to be there at 24.
I am leaning towards Weatherspoon as the best pick there. If he is gone we can still find quality players like Mathews, Mays, Thomas, Cody that may still fill a need. Though I do think we will have a choice of elite players on our big board at that spot.
Bottom line… Trade Down! Please?!
Passion, Commitment and Knowledge is the Meaning of a 'True' Fan!
Rumours FWIW
Kansas City might take McClain at #5. Oakland might take Iupati at #8.
Derek Anderson is just as much a probowl quarterback as Jay Cutler
As long as we don't trade our way out of first round
Would that even happen? Trading a first round pick for multiple second rounders?
"I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Stay Puft!"
yeah, if you could do that every year, you'd have a #1 and two #'2's every year.
(aside from the first year in which you trade your #1). sure, it’s easier said than done, but if you can pull it off it’s a great strategy.
See also the Eagles, who routinely have 10-11 picks going into the draft.
Belief is accepting something because you’ve been convinced to do so, whether you like it or not. Faith is accepting something because you want to accept it.
by Hercules Rockefeller on Apr 21, 2010 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Patriots did it last draft if i am not mistaken
with 4 picks in the 2nd round
i think 4 picks in this years 2nd round would be interesting: how about Tebow, Benn, Gerhart and Ducasse
Steelers interested in Pouncey?
I thought I saw somewhere that they were high on him….Might defeat our purpose if we trade with them and they take Pouncey LOL…
I hope we don’t go back further than late teens…..
"Brandon Marshall will be a happy BRONCO WR in 2010"
Broncotodd - 2009...Boy, was I wrong or what?
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
They'd rather have
Haden. That is the only reason that I dee Pittsburgh trading down or if an OT falls.
Derek Anderson is just as much a probowl quarterback as Jay Cutler
That's what I was worried about, too.
Hopefully 3nS is right, and they want Haden. I really, really want Pouncey.
It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?
aka Solace
Jaguars Trade
I think having the Jags trade down at #10 will only help our chances of moving down. If someone moves up and grabs say, Haden, Thomas, Bryant, or McClain at #10, then someone like Derrick Morgan might be there at #11 for trade bait with another team. Someone moving up to grab their player might mean better players drop to Broncs at #11
Trading down flies in the face of picking the "best available" player.
McDaniels has expressed his willingness to trade down, but then you’re following the “draft for need” philosophy. The “best available” philosophy, especially with a pick as high as #11, seems to be the most successful approach.
I think that Todd has it right
There is a limit to BPA – Tim’s 5 WRs option may be a little over the top, but he’s still got a good point. Almost never do teams ONLY draft for one or the other. It does happen, but usually they need an upgrade at a position or have a hole and want the BPA at that slot
It all starts with the lines
Besides
even if it’s BPA it’s BPA each time you pick, wherever you pick, and it’s better to have multiple high picks (late first and second) than one really high one.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
I'm not so sure....
BPA can often land you a Top 5 WR in 4 straight drafts….lol cough…Matt Millen….cough….
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
If you have
10 (or some other number greater than 1) players all ranked as equally good prospects when your pick comes up (which I think is more realistic than thinking you can scout out prospects to the degree that you can accruately give them an absolute rank), you can trade down that many picks and still get “the best player available.” What trading down does do is eliminate some of the ability to choose amongst those prospects for the position of greatest need.
Did you see Josh?
When he talked about McClain he had the look of a kid picking out his first bike. McClain will be available at 11 and he will be a Bronco. Even so I would like more picks but don’t hold your breath.
Smokescreen
we suspect that he’s trying to entice several teams to consider Haden, Berry, McClain (or any such top 10 player) and trade up with Denver to nab them. He was quite the salesman in his pre-draft conference, if you ask me.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
I would love the #18 Pittsburgh trade...
most all the mocks have Maurkice Pouncey going to them at #18. If they do trade we us then that would (should) tell me that they are after another player with higher value.
Then again I would not mind us taking Pouncey at #11. I know, I know
I like your logic
If the Steelers move up they’re probably not moving up to take Pouncy. I like the idea of moving down if it doesn’t cost us Pouncy, because that’s such a critical need and we have the opportunity to be solid in that position for years to come, like we were with Nalen.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Coin flip
It may turn out to be a good thing that we lost the coin flip to Jacksonville?
"Mr. President, call in the National Guard! Send as many men as you can spare! Because we are killing the Patriots! They need emergency help!"
by bronco-Maine-iac on Apr 21, 2010 10:04 AM MDT reply actions
If McClain was available,
and my Giants were offering our #15th and #76th picks, would you stay to pick McClain, or pull the trigger on the trade
Dream Draft:
1) Rolando McClain
2) Lamarr Houston
3) Kyle Calloway
4) Major Wright
5) Deji Karim
6) Sergio Render
7) Rashawn Jackson
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 21, 2010 10:18 AM MDT reply actions
Trade.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on Apr 21, 2010 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions
Agreed
I think most of us would do that, and dance a little jig. We get a mid-3rd rounder and move back 4 spots? Perfect.
by BroncosBassist on Apr 21, 2010 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Obviously can't speak for our GM,
but if McClain is available at that juncture, I think there’s a good chance that it might happen.
Dream Draft:
1) Rolando McClain
2) Lamarr Houston
3) Kyle Calloway
4) Major Wright
5) Deji Karim
6) Sergio Render
7) Rashawn Jackson
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 21, 2010 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Pittsburgh
Is offering Big Ben for a top ten pick. St. Louis, Cleveland. Oakland, Buffalo. Hmmmmmmm
at least 1 team considering it.
Derek Anderson is just as much a probowl quarterback as Jay Cutler
We should be jumping at this
Only kind of kidding. IT would be absolutely STUPID for the Steelers to trade this guy, regardless of how stupid he has been.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Apr 21, 2010 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions
PR
Ben is a public relations nightmare. Some people were talking about taking Tebow for the money he would generate. Exactly why a team doesn’t want Ben on their team. I applaud the Steelers and I’ll root for the defense of the opposing team to Theisman his legs. Even if he was to become a Bronco, I’d root for the opposing defense.
Derek Anderson is just as much a probowl quarterback as Jay Cutler
ouch!
Way to bring back suppressed memories of horrific injury! :)
by BroncosBassist on Apr 21, 2010 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions
That is absurd
Because San Francisco overpaid for Crabtree at no. 10, now anyone else picking at 10 has to do the same? “We can’t afford to pay for a 10th pick. If only we had the affordable 8th or 9th.” Adam Schefter must be a complete loon. I can’t imagine what compelled you Bena to quote such inanity. I suppose that’s what you get when “shooting from the hip.”
That's very astute of you 3nS
If only you had applied the same diligence in perusing my comment as you employed when reading Bena’s post, you likely would have noticed that, aside from the spelling, that is exactly what I said
What can I say?
Couldn’t spell quoting or Schefter and you expect me to read?
Derek Anderson is just as much a probowl quarterback as Jay Cutler
Don't sweat it
I couldn’t spell “picks” below and that is especially pathetic considering that is the topic of this whole thread :o)
You appear
to be assuming that sports agents are reasonable, logical people who will acknowledge that the Crabtree contract at 10 shouldn’t have any impact on negotiations at 10 this year. I, and apparently Schefter, would question that assumption.
You would be right except
The precedence includes the cheaper earlier pics thus negating the Crabtree impact.
it’s funny you think agents use common sense
by Todd Jewell on Apr 21, 2010 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions
Common sense says that Crabtree shouldn’t get paid like he wanted. The team used common sense and said ‘no’. Look how long it took for them to get Crabtree into camp.
He never got into camp, he didn’t get signed until October 7th. He didn’t play until week 7.
by Todd Jewell on Apr 21, 2010 12:24 PM MDT up reply actions
Then you'd have to wait
One problem with trying to use the preceding contracts is you’d have to wait until a number of them sign. Or, I guess you could use the 9th and 11th from last year and split the difference.
by BroncosBassist on Apr 21, 2010 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Dude, one of the drivers of the owners exiting the current CBA is the stupid sloting system for rookie contracts.
The owners hate as much as fans do. The only guys that like it are high 1st round picks and their agents.
Do you ever see 2nd thru 7th round picks hold out? Nope. Last year we had two Top 10 picks hold out into the regular season. Hummm…..
The slotting system affects NFL teams whether you think that is absurd or not. The real absurdity here is your niave and blind denial of the realities of the NFL.
Your post = BIG -1.
In my opinion.
The slotting system
stupid as it is, is precisely why Schefter’s comment is absurd. Thanks to the earlier lower paid picks, it is obvious to anyone but you McDummy (wow! That’s the first time I have used the derogatory McNickname strategy so popular among many others) that the Crabtree contract didn’t belong in the 10th slot.
Won't stop the agents from pushing.
Did Crabtree hold out? Yep. Did he get his payday? Yep.
You can bitch and cry all you want about the Schefter and the slotting system we all agree is stupid, but that system becomes even more of a nuisance when it gets violated.
- this year will be a pain in the ass because the 10th picks greedy agent will very likely look the Crabtree’s deal to structure his client’s contract. You can take that to the bank. Will this player get a Crabtree deal? Maybe, maybe not, but his agent will push for one and it may well result in a holdout.
In my opinion.
Thoughts?
We trade down to 18 (Pitt) and get their 52 in the 2d, that would give us 43, 45, and 52. Pouncey, Benn or Thomas, Gerhart (unlikely given McD’s ignoring Hillis) and Tebow.
I like McClain – we could do worse. But, if there is a sure thing at a much needed position it will be Pouncey. I’m calling my shot … we need him …
And what’s with all the waffling on McClains Chrons? First he has it. Then he doesn’t. What gives?
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
Sorry … what gives with my spelling … meant Crohn’s
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
In my own mock draft
that I posted today [underdog’s mock draft] I predicted a trade that is based in part on what you say here John and in part on which teams might want to move up. That said it’s a total stab in the dark. I originally thought maybe New England would be a candidate to trade up, given they have a friendly trade relationship and they have some players they may eye nearer the top of the draft but on the other hand NE seems like a team that would play it more like the Broncos and prefer to stay at lower end of 1st round for greater value.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
a perfect world?
You can’t say that in “a perfect world” the Denver Broncos would move down. What if the Broncos moved up to pick up Suh or Bradford? I think that would be a pretty good move. It appears our ideal and perfect draft is mostly opinion at this point.
It would pretty much cost every single pick we have to draft Bradford at one
And about three times as much money, or so. In essence, I think your “perfect world” is la la land =)
Give me impact at center, copmetence at guard and an upgrade at linebacker - sprinkle in strides from having the same system for two years in a row - and I'll show you a contender!
I was not bashing the author of the article, I was making a correction. You stated that the Broncos would have to trade away all of their picks to get Bradford. The error in this comment is that you do not know for sure that “all” of the Bronco picks would need to be traded away. So Elvis, am I really living in “la la” land? … ;)
Guys, guys, guys...
You’re all wrong. The Broncos are staying at 11 and taking Dez Bryant. Franchise receivers don’t grow on trees, you know.
/media’d
Down
Centre and inside backer are not premium positions that we should tie 11th pick contract value too.
Trade down to lower 1st, take Odrick if available – he’ll be a great 3-4 end.
If not, take whoever falls from McLain, Pouncey, Iupati, Weatherspoon, Thomas
by mark eaton on Apr 21, 2010 1:39 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
I'd put Thomas pretty low on that list
We have Darcel McBath, and their skill sets are pretty similar. Thomas might be more gifted, but they’d be competing for the same position.
by BroncosBassist on Apr 21, 2010 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Thomas
Thomas fits the versatile profile that McD likes. Corner and both safety spots.
by mark eaton on Apr 21, 2010 2:06 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I've been saying this for months
It is easier than people make it out to be. Like everything else, it’s all about the “want to”. Personally, I’ve never seen any indication that leads me to believe Josh won’t go full steam after what he wants, even if that means lowering the asking price.
P.S. Peter King’s mock draft is out today. He mocks the Broncos trading with NYG. Peter King, ya’ll. Are there any insiders on the planet that have more clout than Schefter and Peter King when it comes to inside information?
Give me impact at center, copmetence at guard and an upgrade at linebacker - sprinkle in strides from having the same system for two years in a row - and I'll show you a contender!
Great Point on Crabtree contract
Not sure but I think his contract worked out to top 5 $‘s, making Denver’s 11th the most desireable trade partner in the first round for teams to move up. Great position for Broncos to trade down for additional pick[s] and still select our need player, than we package picks to trade up into late 1st round to select Tebow.
oc60
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts, we make our path."
by oc60 on Apr 21, 2010 4:34 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
rec'd comment
I agree with every word except for the last one :~)
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
HaHa thought so
oc60
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts, we make our path."
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