Back Attack - Competition for the 4th spot
It is widely accepted here on MHR that the Broncos need an extra back firstly to provide depth but also to help us with short yardage situations (a big back would be preferable). Unfortunately two of the guys that we targeted in this years draft Toby Gerhart and Montario Hardesty where off the board when we picked in the 3rd round (we may well have tried to trade up to get one but other teams might have been asking for a bit too much in return).
So what do we do now?
Well we actually have a couple of backs on our roster currently, Bruce Hall and Lance Ball, i will try and take a look at what qualites they could bring to the team. Also we have just picked up Chris Brown from Oklahoma and Toney Baker from Carolina State in UDFA so lets have a look at who might fill the fourth RB slot behind Moreno, Buckhalter and Arrington.
At Jerermy Bolanders request i have added a J.J Arrington profile as well, we generally don't know to much about the guy so this is a good opportunity to see what he can bring to our backfield, he already has the third RB slot on our roster so i won't include him in the poll.
Bruce Hall
John Bena's post on MHR on the Day Hall was signed:
Hall (5-foot-11, 205 pounds), who entered the NFL with Buffalo as a college free agent in 2008, is a second-year player who spent the majority of his two seasons on the Bills' practice squad. He was signed to the Bills' active roster and dressed but did not play in Buffalo's 2008 season finale against New England.
Hall, 24, split time as a running back and quarterback in college at the University of Mississippi (2006-07) after spending time at Northeast Community College (2005), Troy University (2004) and Wake Forest (2003). Hall totaled 416 yards and a touchdown on 85 carries (4.9 avg.) while adding 15 catches for 149 yards (9.9 avg.) and one score in 23 games over two seasons at Mississippi.
He was an all-state selection at Northeast Community College (Norfolk, Neb.) in 2003 and earned the Offensive Backs Most Valuable Player Award after passing for 1,003 yards and 10 touchdowns while rushing for nearly 300 yards. He worked on Troy's scout team while having to sit out due to the NCAA transfer rule in 2004. Hall redshirted as a true freshman at Wake Forest in 2003.
Hall attended Milton High School in Orlando, Fla., where he ranked No. 45 on the Orlando Sentinel's Top 100 Florida prospects list. He totaled 5,646 passing yards and 61 touchdowns while completing 357-of-650 pass attempts during his career. He also contributed 476 carries for 2,534 yards and 31 touchdowns. He led the team to the district championship as a junior.
Bruce Tarahn Christopher Hall, who majored in exercise science at Mississippi, was born March 18, 1985, in Milton, Fla.
Hall was a guy that our new RB's coach Eric Studesville thought highly enough of to bring him in here when we wanted to fill the 4th spot. As you can see he didn't get any playing time with the Bills but he was resigned to their practise squad for 2009 so they must have liked his progress and wanted to keep him around just in case injury. He is an interesting prospect because he can pass but i think with 4 QB's on the roster he won't be asked to step into that role much, we would be seeing him as a pure running back. Other than this there doesn't seem to be much around on the internet regarding his abilities or any videos for us to watch so i guess we are going to have to take the word of our new RB coach on this one for now. My guess he probably doesn't make the roster and he is definitely not the short yardage power back that we could do with.
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Lance Ball
Lance Ball (born June 19, 1985 in Teaneck, New Jersey) is a free agent American football running back who is a member of the the Denver Broncos of the National Football League.He was signed by the St. Louis Rams as an undrafted free agent in 2008. Ball has also been a member of the Indianapolis Colts and Tennessee Titans.
He played college football at the University of Maryland. He had four 100-yard games in his last seven starts during his sophomore season, and emerged as one of the top running backs in the ACC, rushing for 903 yards with six touchdowns. He was the third-leading rusher in the conference with a 82.1 per-game average, and earned second-team All-ACC honors. In his junior season, he again led the team in rushing with 815 yards.
POSITIVES: Hard-running, one-speed ball-carrier who picks up the tough yardage. Runs with good lean, displays solid vision, and quickly finds the hole. Displays straight-ahead running power, bounces off tackles, and keeps his feet moving. Picks up a lot of yardage off initial contact and falls forward when tackled. Can cut back in a small area and adequate catching the ball out of the backfield. He is a natural runner with good vision, has very good feet for a player his size, can make defenders miss or go through them, has a knack for finding holes, also has good hands as a pass-catcher.
NEGATIVES: Does not possess the speed or agility to turn the corner. Not an elusive back who creates yardage. Must pick up the intensity as a blocker.
ANALYSIS: Ball is a well-built running back with potential as a situational short-yardage runner at the next level.
Sounds good right? Well yes he may be a good fit for short yardage situations.. In the one game he played with the Colts he got 88 yards in 14 touches against the Titans backups in week 17, 6 yards per touch.
Wow who knew we had this guy waiting in the wings.. Maybe Gerhart won't be missed that much! For further evidence of Ball's qualities check out these youtube vids.. (not great quality but you can get a good feel for his skills.
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Ok so those are the guys that were already on the roster but what about the draft?.. Oh yer we didn't get anyone in the draft! In fact not that many teams did, only 14 RBs were taken in the draft compared to 27wrs and 20TEs so it wasn't a particularly deep draft for RB. Or possibly it was just much deeper at other positions which caused the RBs to drop a bit.
Despite (/because of) that we did manage to pick up two good prospects in UDFA.
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Toney Baker
Baker (5-9 1/2, 234) ran 4.59 and 4.70 in the 40, had a 37-inch vertical, a 9-foot, 6-inch broad jump, a 4.30-second short shuttle, a 7.33 three-cone drill and did 27 bench press repetitions at 225 pounds. - Gil Brandt
That doesn't look to bad right? Well the problem with Baker was that he underwent reconstructive knee surgery, he got the injury early in the 2007 season and didn't play in the rest or the 2008 season at all.
Year Team G Rush Yds Yd/Rush TDs Rec Yds Yd/Rec TDs 2005 NCSt 11 124 546 4.4 5 13 106 8.2 1 2006 NCSU 12 157 688 4.4 6 21 177 8.4 0 2007 NCSU 1 10 38 3.8 0 3 38 12.7 0 2009 NCSU 12 160 773 4.8 6 28 355 12.7 3 career 36 451 2045 4.5 17 65 676 10.4 4
Despite being granted a sixth year of eligibility, Baker is testing the draft waters even though it's far from certain he'll be selected. The biggest reason why teams may pass on the North Carolina native is he'll be running on a reconstructed knee that required two surgeries, causing him to miss the entire 2008 season and most of 2007. Baker came back this season to play in all 12 of North Carolina State's games, finishing with a team-leading 773 yards rushing and 355 receiving while scoring nine touchdowns. However, he also had some fumbling problems in 2009 and often couldn't get a good burst off that injured knee. Injury woes derailed Baker's career after he showed plenty of promise in his first two seasons with the Wolfpack, rushing for 1,234 yards and 11 TDs before being named to the 2007 preseason list for the Doak Walker Award. Instead, Baker fought through a disappointing stint at N.C. State following one of the best prep careers ever with 10,231 rushing yards - at the time third-most in national high school history - and 161 touchdowns. Baker, who turns 24 in June, is a talented receiver who could be a good third-down back in the NFL if a team is willing to take a chance on him.
So with a bit of pro level conditioning could this guy be the short yardage back that we are looking for? Make up your own mind by checking out these highlight videos.
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Chris Brown
- Height:
5'10"
- Weight: 210 lbs.
- College: Oklahoma
The Good: Well-built, elusive ball-carrier who runs with an aggressive style. Displays good vision, sees the hole and quickly gets through it. Runs low to the ground behind his pads and effectively follows blocks everywhere on the field. Quick footed, makes defenders miss, and weaves his way through the traffic on the inside. Shows a good degree of patience in his running, resilient and a tenacious blocker downfield when necessary. Solid receiver out of the backfield.
The Bad: Shows a burst of speed yet cannot beat defenders into the open field or run to daylight. Not a back who breaks a lot of tackles on the inside.
The Verdict: Brown has been a terrific ball-carrier at Oklahoma, sharing the duties in the backfield. He offers a complete game and has all the skills to be a productive second back for an NFL team.
Career Rushing Receiving Year Team G Rush Yds Yds/G Avg TD Rec RecYds Yds/G Avg Lng RecTDs 2006 Oklahoma (11-3) 5 70 343 68.6 4.9 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 2007 Oklahoma (11-3) 13 158 611 47.0 3.9 9 10 83 6.4 8.3 18 1 2008 Oklahoma (12-2) 14 217 1220 87.1 5.6 20 15 109 7.8 7.3 25 1 2009 Oklahoma (8-5) 13 182 749 57.6 4.1 7 19 131 10.1 6.9 19 1 Career 45 627 2923 64.9 4.6 42 44 323 7.2 6.7 62 3
He was a productive back for the Sooners but never showed the true next level skills to be considered a high draft pick. It is a good pick up because he has a lot of experience against top competition and he could be an effective backup in case one of our starters goes down to injury (i'm looking at you buck). He is not the big bruising running back that could help us in short yardage but he does have some nice cutting skills and could come in and gain yards, especially with our upgraded O-Line. Anyway check him out for your self..
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J.J Arrington
Johnathan Jerone "J. J." Arrington (born January 23, 1983 in Nashville, North Carolina). He was drafted by the Arizona Cardinals in the second round of the 2005 draft. He played college football at College of the Canyons and California
From our own Tim Lynch on the day of his second signing attempt.
The Denver Broncos on Friday signed free-agent running back J.J. Arrington, it was announced. As per team policy, terms of the deal were not disclosed.
Arrington (5-foot-9, 212 pounds) is a fifth-year running back who originally signed with Denver a year ago today, but was waived May 28, 2009. He spent the 2009 season out of football.
Arrington, 27, spent his first four NFL seasons with Arizona, which selected him in the second round (44th overall) of the 2005 NFL Draft from the University of California. He has played 58 career regular-season games (8 starts), totaling 183 rushes for 654 yards (3.6 avg.) with three touchdowns along with 91 receptions for 693 yards (7.6 avg.) with two scores. Arrington owns 114 career kickoff returns for 2,694 yards (23.6 avg.) with two touchdowns.
In 2008, Arrington saw time in 11 regular-season games (3 starts) and all four postseason contests for the Cardinals, who won the NFC West title and advanced to Super Bowl XLIII. He rushed for 187 yards on 31 carries (6.0 avg.) with one touchdown and tied a career high with 29 receptions for 255 yards (8.8 avg.) with one score during the regular season. He also returned 36 kickoffs for 923 yards (25.6 avg.) with a 93-yard touchdown return.
During his rookie campaign with Arizona in 2005, Arrington rushed for a career-high 370 yards on 112 carries (3.3 avg.) with two touchdowns and had 25 receptions for 139 yards (5.6 avg.). He returned 67 kickoffs for 1,520 yards (22.7 avg.) with a 99-yard touchdown return for the Cardinals in 2006.
California's J.J. Arrington, who led the nation with 2,018 rushing yards in 2004, was the fastest running back at the combine with a 4.46 mark in the 40. Some might question his size (5-81/2, 214), but it didn't prevent him from rushing for at least 100 yards in all 12 games last season and putting up the most yards by a Pacific-10 runner since Marcus Allen's 2,427 in 1981
Just to put that combine 40 score in perspective Darren Sproles ran a 4.48.. Faster than Sproles you say.. i'm in!
Ok cool we have ourselves a second round running back.. at least 100 per game in college.. again pretty impressive.. Josh McDaniels was excited about getting this guy and this quote will tell you why.
"J.J. Arrington was the only back who played in the fourth quarter for the Arizona Cardinals in the Super Bowl," McDaniels said. "That tells you all you need to know. They were trailing. Obviously, Pittsburgh is a blitzing team and they trusted him enough to be the only guy to play in the fourth quarter because he had to pick up the blitz against good linebackers and he caught a couple passes. And he did that all year."
But don't just take his opinion.. have a look for your self!
There are plenty more short highlights on NFL.com just click on his name underneath the video and it takes you to all his video clips.
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Ok so that's it, that is who is currently on our roster. Which of these guys do you like most for our 4th spot? (Arrington not included because he already has the third spot.) Of course there is still time to pick up more competition in free agency but these guys are inexpensive and a couple of them have pretty good potential. My view is that if none of these guys work out this year and they will get some carries in camp and pre-season we will go after a big bruiser type RB in next years draft, maybe someone like Mark Ingram?. Hope you enjoyed this, i enjoyed doing the research and learning about the lesser known guys on our roster.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Very nice article!
I was thinking of doing something like this, but you beat me too it. All of these guys have potential. My favorite of this group is Toney Baker. He underwent reconstructive knee surgery, but he put up the best numbers of his career the year after. I like that kid. Watching the videos, he is VERY powerful. He plows through defenders, but he is able to be elusive and stay on his feet. I like his potential. I also like Chris Brown.
Our future looks bright at Running back.
Depth Chart
1. Knowshon Moreno
2. Correll Buckhalter
3. J.J. Arrington
4. Toney Baker
5. Chris Brown
P.S.
Bruce Hall
Lance Ball
I don’t think it would be impossible to carry 5 running backs. We lost like 20 in 08. I like both of our college free agent running backs. Both show a lot of promise. Especially Baker! Looks like Gerhart and Hardesty won’t be missed so much after all.
I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything - John Elway
October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
I would swap Baker and Ball on your list for this year or atleast the begining of it..
Baker will probably need some extra knee conditioning before McD is comfortable with him. But i agree he looks like he can plough through some guys..
Brown is a good option as a reserve guy that we don’t take to games but keep on the roster only bringing him if a guy has an injury and Ball looks like he could do pretty well at short yardage.
also Baker is about 25-30lbs heavier than the other guys and he can still run a 4.59!
I like the sound of that!
Baker is amazing
I’ve watched Baker’s entire career at North Carolina State, and he’d be a great addition to our roster. Even against top flight competition like FSU and Miami he would still drag tacklers for a good 2-3 yards after contact, assuming he didn’t break the tackle outright. He was also a great leader for the team, and the fact that he fought through all of his knee problems shows a glimpse of the character he has. This past season he started out a bit shaky (he fumbled on his first play from scrimmage), but by the end of the season he was back to form and was an integral part of our offense. One thing that should help him is that he’s not afraid of contact and he was a willing and capable blocker in college. Honestly, I wouldn’t be too worried about the knee, as he has played a full football season after a full rehab and really didn’t show any ill effects from it.
Good news!
Thanks for the inside info.
High character, tough inside runner, seemingly healed knee, pretty quick for a big guy. I like the sound of all of it.
I just went on youtube and found highlights from a lot of NC States 2009 games
Baker is featured in them and i have to agree he looks like he is running fine on his repaired knee.
Would move Ball to #5 spot
He’s got great hands something McD is looking for aka Kevin Faulk. Plus power for the Red Zone
oc60
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts, we make our path."
I think Arrington will shine for us this season..
After the injury that kept him out last year he’ll want to prove something. Too bad Baker injuried his knee, he looks like a bigger bowling ball than Ray Rice.
I heard that Baker had to have his cartilage rebuilt
then implanted back into his knee. If he passes his physical, he could be a huge addition (literally). I think he is my favorite out of the group, pending a physical…
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 25, 2010 10:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Let's hope he's 100%
If not we have Baker who is a “football” player and could be a starter if completely covered.
oc60
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts, we make our path."
Practice squad
If these backs so a bit of promise we can carry more than 4 with the practice squad. I hope that works out or we pick up another free agent back that can be productive.
Toney Baker
If fully recovered from knee injury he won’t last on the PS. We have to protect him on the 53 man roster. He can be our Red Zone specialist.
oc60
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts, we make our path."
I don't think our guy is here yet...
Lot of time between now and TC. Let’s see who gets cut from other rosters. Most teams will only keep one bruiser/grinder and right now there are several with 2 or more.
"as in football so in life"
Hey HorseStance
If you could add an Arrington profile, this would make a great front-pager….. and I know a guy who does those kinds of promotions. :)
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 25, 2010 10:17 PM MDT reply actions
Thanks man.. :o)
Arrington added.. He looks like he could have a great year for us this year. Definitely makes the backfield feel a bit stronger and eases up the Buckhalter injury worries.
I don't know enough about t hese guys to vote
So, I abstained. But, I like what I see out of those stats. I really like that Baker and Brown both had non-trivial reception totals last year, and Baker had a pretty decent per catch average. Versatility is nice because if the bowling ball (in Baker’s case) lined up back there on 3rd & a long 2 can catch out of the backfield, you can’t just stack against the run and expect to hold. In Brown’s case, it makes him more valuable as a backup in case one of the guys higher up the rotation goes down to injury.
Same here. Nice post.
Of course, we may have that bruiser of a 4th RB option elsewhere. Something like Teepee… no… T-Bone… uh, Tebow! Yeah, that’s it!!! I think he plays another position, though…
Wish someone would do a profile on him. I’ve heard almost nuthin’!
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
by BroncTastic on Apr 26, 2010 12:08 PM MDT up reply actions
lol
Tebow could well take the 5th RB spot if McD wants to keep all 4 QBs. Not sure if he would line up there, what with McD saying is is going to a a qb.. nothing else.. I’m not sure i beleive him on that one, i would love to see Tebow getting on the field sometimes in red zone and goal line plays.
But yer i think we are going to hearing a LOT about him this year. Even if he doesn’t play at all.
by HorseStance on Apr 26, 2010 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Agreed, McD definitely notice those reception stats as well.. he loves all that versatility stuff.
Brown for Depth, Baker for Big back would give us a nice rounded backfield, not sure if we would carry 5 guys, i thought it was 4 last year but maybe i am forgetting someone, Moreno, Buck, Jordan, Hillis. Also i think Lance Ball is pretty versatile as well, even though he is not big he is compact and runs hard, he also has good hands and by this point he should be up to speed on the play book and the blocking responsibilities.
by HorseStance on Apr 26, 2010 12:34 PM MDT up reply actions
Great post
I initially liked Baker for his massive size, but I think now that Chris Brown has to be my favorite to take that #4 spot
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Apr 26, 2010 11:59 AM MDT reply actions
agreed, but I'd be interested to know which of those plays is before knee blowout and
which are after
by DE_BroncoFan on Apr 26, 2010 1:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Look at the QB
If he’s getting a hand-off/pass from number 16 then it’s from this past season. Prior to his injury would likely be number 7 or 12.
What the hell has Moreno done to be on the top of the depth chart?
He was a disappointment last year. He often played every bit as poorly as the o-line that gets ripped around here. Spare me the, “it was the line’s fault” bs, tbuck produced better behind the same line. Time after time moreno was one on one in the hole with a safety and needed just a yard and, instead, got jacked up. Would he have performed better behind a better line? Yes. At the same time, there were many nfl running backs who produced better behind similar lines.
Hey, I hope he comes into his own this year. Don’t drink the koolaid, though, we need a lot better out of that position that moreno gave us last year.
by Keyworthpunch on Apr 26, 2010 12:46 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
He's at the top because
he was 16th overall in the NFL in rushing yards, 1st in Rookie rushing yards, and 1st in Rookie rushing yards per game.
In short, he was the most productive rusher on the Broncos squad last year.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Apr 26, 2010 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions
How many times did he win rookie of the week again?
Disappointment? No chance! He showed me a lot last year. Sometimes people only remember the big plays and the bad plays but in between them where a lot of smaller plays where he showed great abilities to make extra yards and take advantage when there was a hole.. which was pretty rare.
I love your post though because it gives me the opportunity to go back and look at it again.. so that i can show you some examples of when he showed lots of potential.
by HorseStance on Apr 26, 2010 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions
I chose Baker
but Ball looks good too. Not sure either get much PT – barring injury. And Baker is a huge character guy.
by Orange and Blue on Apr 26, 2010 12:48 PM MDT reply actions
I dont know about the rest of you....
But I for one am not feeling very secure about our RB situation. Lets take a look at our “top 3” RB.
Moreno- Coming off a less than spectacular rookie season and still has a lot to prove. Started to stall late in the season.
Buckhalter- Cant keep healthy for an entire season but productive when active
JJ Arrington- Another RB who has never lived up to his potential or put up impressive numbers.
I dont get a warm fuzzy feeling about our players right now. Dont get me wrong, I think Moreno could be the answer still. But its far from proven.
Id feel much better if we still had a Mr. Peyton Hillis on the roster.
As for the rest of these guys I too dont know enough to vote, but none of them standout to me as guys that should really be more than practice squad players….Here is to hoping Im wrong! TD was just a measly special teamer when he got here after all
For Moreno the hold out didn't help him in any way, plus coming from 12-13 games to 16.
Moreno had to feel the crunch at season’s end and now that he has that under his belt, he knows more of how to handle it. Moreno barring injury should have a great year with the new meat on the line. We actually have OLinemen now that can actually drive defenders backwards (at least I hope) and that will help our running game especially in short yardage situations…For this we will have to wait and see how they do in training camp.
None of the above
Broncos will slip one onto practice squad, but leave a space open on roster and pick up someone else between now and regular season.
Who would you suggest..
What options are out there currently? Or are you expecting some other team to drop a good back?
by HorseStance on Apr 26, 2010 12:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Expect the Unexpected
I expect a trade or a drop and pick up. Its gotta happen somewhere. Maybe here.
I feel the need to dispel a common misperception
(this will be dealt at length in an upcoming Answers in Search of a Question article)
The common perception is that Denver totally stunk on 3rd & short and that we generally got stuffed because we only ran up the middle. Neither of those contentions is particularly accurate.
In 2009, Denver’s best 3rd down conversion rate came on 3rd & 1. 3rd & 2 was not as good, but wasn’t that far behind.
In fact, according to hosted.stats.com, Denver had a 56% conversion rate on 3rd & short — which was good enough to rank 6th in the entire NFL.
In terms of being stuffed on 3rd & short (with the most stuffed team being #1 and the least #32), the Broncos ranked 24th in the league.
In terms of overall rushing first downs, Denver ranked 14th.
If you look at our overall 3rd down conversion rate, we ranked 21st. Why? Not because of 3rd & short, but rather because 25% of 3rd downs had us needing 11 or more yards, A third of our 3rd downs required us to move the ball 10 yards or more for the first. And 50% of our 3rd downs had us facing 6 or more yards for a first down. In other words, half of our 3rd downs left us with a 3rd and long.
So, I’m not terribly concerned about the RBs & 3rd & short, I’m more concerned about the lack of productivity on 1st & 2nd down.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Apr 26, 2010 12:59 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Awesome Brian.. way to bring it.
Like i said i’m not great on stats so i’ll leave that up to you and TJ, but wouldn’t you like to see a big power back on the roster?
McD definitely showed me that he likes to run to the middle last year and Buck is just too injury prone to risk that too much and although Moreno can do it, it will wear him down and reduce his likelihood to break off the big plays.
I'd be delighted to have a power back
After watching Bush/White as Lightning & Thunder at USC, I like the combination.
I just would hate to see the Broncos become so focused on 3rd & short, that 1st & 2nd are overlooked. ;-p
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Apr 26, 2010 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions
no 1st down production
Great point I worry about our ability to run the ball consistently, but more on first down we had way too many 2nd and 3rd and long (9 + yards). I really feel except for a few exceptional backs the rest are interchangeable getting a healthy Harris and a couple other 300lbs’ers at center and guard will make a huge difference but 4+ yards on first down is the key
oldcoachB
Absolutely correct
And we need to minimize penalties. When 50+% of your 3rd downs are 3rd & 6 or more, your offense is going to struggle. When 25+% of your 3rd downs are 3rd and 10 or more, your offense is most likely going to fail.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on Apr 27, 2010 8:25 AM MDT up reply actions
Nice post!
I’d go for Lance Ball or Chris Brown as our #4. Or we may just carry three backs – hello Tim Tebow!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
I love Toney’s running style. Its that type of running i like best. Had a Walter Payton vibe to it.
"To all the critiques, thank you for the motivation… because it has been an edge for me and will continue to be an edge for me" - Tim 'the Mile High Messiah' Tebow
by David G. Little on Apr 26, 2010 2:03 PM MDT reply actions
I just had a thought...Dangerous huh?
Would you trade the team (I forget who) who seleceted Toby Gerhart for Brady Quinn? Just a though and a simple yes or no would suffice…
Wouldn't
It take at least two yars to fully recover from that kind of surgery Baker had. If so, it makes sense that he would have a hard time cutting on that knee. If that can be fixed I think he is a steal.
Now that that is over.....
Well according to Hai17 who watched him all year..
He had recovered form by the end of the year, i would guess that the broncos would test it and do more conditioning on it, but if he was playing at full speed by the end of the year that is good news for us.
more to do with the line
great post thanks for all the info, but I believe the running game depends way more on the big guys up front its too hard to tell one back from another in drafts. More beef and a healthy Harris at right tackle and we will be just fine. Harris didn’t loose a game last year came back for the big win against KC then got hurt again. He makes a huge difference. Walton from Baylor is a stud my guess he starts by reg season.
oldcoachB
Welcome OCB
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
Nice job thanks HorseStance
oc60
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts, we make our path."
Broncos should sign....
Roy Upchurch out of Alabama! If it wasn’t for injury he would have had one helluva season. I’am a little biased though :)
What abou Kubiak
Did he get drafted?
oc60
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts, we make our path."
Fullback
Been wondering about Fullback but it’s not worth a fanpost. This is a good place to ask.
Who’s our best shot at a FB? Obviously Larsen’s the incumbent, but you’d like another capable back to play the position. Does this influence who’s going to be #4? Baker seems to have the size…
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams
by orange&blue_aussie on Apr 27, 2010 4:33 AM MDT reply actions
I've thought about that, too
We don’t use a FB set very often. There are a few times we have both a FB & RB on the field at the same time but the 4th RB is mostly just a power RB brought in for RZ situations as a one-back rather than as a lead blocker for the RB — IMO.
Larsen is obviously the FB but the 4th RB could used at that position, too. He would also provide depth, and it’s dangerous to leave a position without backup since an injury can affect responsibilities and change assignments in the middle of a game. And it would be nice if the FB was a legitimate threat to occasionally run the ball. Larsen has been used strictly as a blocker.
I’ve been hoping to get this very question answered for some time. It also helps people understand why Hillis fared so poorly. His weakness a blocker made him less desirable at FB than Larsen, And his running ability was far inferior to Moreno or Buckhalter. Even Lamont Jordan was preferable in ways, such as blocking.
BTW — my impression is that Baker could be a beautiful addition if healthy. I’ve been operating on the assumption for some time that a big RB is what we need. My preference is for the “pocket Hercules” type, which describes both Baker and Ball.
no goats, no glory.
I agree Colinski... it's curious because there's no bruiser on the roster except maybe Baker now
And he could in no way be thought of as a lock though I’ll take your word that he’d be a good addition.
Do you think there’s any chance they rely on O-line or tight ends to cover the role?
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams
by orange&blue_aussie on Apr 27, 2010 9:42 AM MDT up reply actions
more on power back
Going without a power back isn’t necessarily the deficit that it seems. Moreno is a good runner between the Tackles, and his success depends on the blocking, which we’ve addressed. As McDaniels keeps saying — success at running as about a team. Or, to put another way — when everyone blocks, the running game works.
The common mistake is to assume that using a power back equates to RZ success. RZ success if often the result of running through the right hole with speed. Big backs caught in the backfield before they get up to speed are no more successful in short yardage than fast backs who elude defenders. There’s a tradeoff between speed and power, which is why I like the power backs in the Maurice Jones-Drew mold who combine power with elusiveness due to size. They’re hard to stop, or find, and their center of gravity is so low to the ground.
The primary use of the FB is to block, both for the QB as a pass blocker and (more rarely for us) in the run game as a lead blocker. We’re not an I formation team that uses two backs regularly. The spread formation uses that extra player as a WR or as an extra blocker on the line, such as an extra TE (set back from the line when necessary to make the formation legal).
Your question about TEs& OLs is on point. Having an OL as the lead blocker (Hochstein, Lichtensteiger) is one solution. And the solution that was popular early in the ought decade was the use of the TE/H-back (numerous examples). We often see TEs projected as FBs and vice versa. Branson has some potential in this role, and Geer also has some potential. The one aspect of this solution that intrigues me is the potential to eliminate the need for an added player.
no goats, no glory.
by Colinski on Apr 27, 2010 6:07 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Mmm - it certainly appears that FB is not in the plans at this stage
Though FB isn’t large in McD’s playbook I doubt he’s eliminated its role about as much as I doubt he hasn’t got a plan for a player to fit the role. Which is to say I’m sure it’s under control. Though I wish I could figure it out.
As alway Colinski – love hearing your take on things. You’ve got a way of discussing many aspects of the team all at once in a way that I admire. Thanks for the feedback.
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams
by orange&blue_aussie on Apr 27, 2010 10:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Man, hope Baker is FULLY recovered from inury...hes a downhill out of contril pinball...tought runner....he would be great!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
If Baker can give us a couple of good years...
He seems to hit the hole faster than all but Buckhalter and hitting the hole fast, downhill running seemed to be the hardest adjustment for Moreno in his first year. Big, fast, good hands, hopefully he can block.
Why the over-the-top Chris Brown love?
Are people confusing him with the CU Buff? Or perhaps the R&B singer/domestic abuser. It’s a common name, but why is he preferred in the poll? Baker and Ball are better options.
My guess is because he played for a 'big' team,
He has had a lot of experience against top college competition and has been productive at all times. Yes he probably isn’t the flashiest of RBs but i be he could get the job done for us if one of our starters went down. Personally i think it was a great pick up, and i guess that if he where to go to the PS he would probably get poached by some other team. I’m not sure other teams would try to get Baker because of his injury issues. Just a guess though.
Very nice write up HS
Outside of Arrington, I haven’t watched any of them play. Judging by the resumes you’ve listed, Baker seems the obvious choice for a 4th RB. He’s unique in his size and inside running style. He fits what we’re looking to add in short-yardage situations; the others just offer more of the same – depth.
Give me impact at center, copmetence at guard and an upgrade at linebacker - sprinkle in strides from having the same system for two years in a row - and I'll show you a contender!
by Alex on Apr 27, 2010 10:54 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
Thx dude,
Did you watch Arrington play in college? If so what would be your personal observations about his play?
But yer i agree he looks like he fits the short yardage back role very nicely.
Chris Brown is the man
I have watched just about every OU game Chris Brown has played. He has been the one constant at RB for the Sooners. He has great field vision, hits the gaps hard and quick, can block and catch out of the backfield. He is solid at everything, just isn’t the best at any one thing. Brown has always had to share time with backs like Adrian Peterson and DeMarco Murray, although I have always felt he would be a better NFL running back than Murray due to his ability to block, and his ability to hit the gaps quickly. He may not make the flashy runs like Peterson or Murray, but he rarely takes a loss. I believe he can easily become our #2 back, if he can play at the same level in the pros that he did in college. He is also durable, I can’t recall him having any serious injuries in 4 years at OU.
Thanks for the input..
I definitely like Brown and his versatility in a reserve type role for us, say if one of Buck or Moreno gets injured. I don’t think he fits the short yardage back role very well which is what i think McD is after but hey you never know right.
No Hall No Ball
We should drop both the guys we have now, and pick up PJ Pope and Selvin Young, both came in and had good games brfore they got hurt in 2008.
there was that other guy on our roster last training camp
that played well in pre-season but was cut, despite our best efforts, instead of lamont jordan..
can’t remember his name
Walker?
not sure young and pope fit our new blocking scheme but your guess is as good as mine.

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