Why Draft Tebow? Lips Like Sugar? Or for the Shotgun/Spread?
It took a few days, but I'm done grieving. Like a Raiders fan after another 4-12 season, I'm back for more.
You see, I've come to accept that Tim Tebow will be the quarterback of the Denver Broncos.
It may not be at the start of training camp. And it may not be in 2010. But it's coming. And much sooner than you think.
Josh McDaniels did not trade up for Tim Tebow in the 1st round so that he could throw him into the game for only 4 or 5 gimmick plays. He didn't draft him to become an H-back in the Wild Horses set. And he didn't draft him--contrary to reports--because Tebow is the squeakiest and cleanest poster child the NFL has ever seen. While Tebow might have lips like sugar, he is here because Josh McDaniels intends to make him a starting quarterback at some point in the near future. McDaniels himself put the notion of Tebow being a gimmick to bed last Saturday, saying about Tebow:
"He's a quarterback. He's a quarterback. That's all he's going to do."
Okay, Josh. I get it. I get it.
It's possible that Kyle Orton pulls a Drew Brees and throws 27 TDs and only 7 INTs. It's possible he leads them to the playoffs and the Broncos go 12-4. That's why Edison invented the franchise tag. Sure, this is all possible. But in the mind of McDaniels, it's unlikely.
I'm getting the feeling it's 2006 all over again. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. I was younger and the Broncos were just coming off of an AFC-Championship appearance.
You remember 2006, don't you? It was also the year that the Broncos traded up in the 1st round to select Jay Cutler a year after veteran Jake Plummer threw for 3,366 yard, 18 TDs and 7 INTs with a 90.2 QB rating. The day of the draft, we heard this gem from Mike Shanahan:
"All you like to do is have competition. You try to create competition. We've been very fortunate the last couple of years. Obviously Jake is in his 10th year and took us to the AFC Championship Game and played quite well on a Pro Bowl level. (Plummer is) an athlete, he's playing at a very high level and won a lot of games, and hopefully we'll continue to do that with Jake at the helm."
At the time, there were many who saw through this quote, although many were thinking Cutler was going to end up sitting 1 or 2 years for the purposes of "development."
Fast forward to 2009. Kyle Orton throws for 3,802 yards, 21 TDs and 12 Ints with a 86.8 QB rating. The Broncos trade multiple picks to acquire Tebow in the 1st round of 2010 NFL draft. The thinking is that he'll have 2 or even 3 years to develop behind Orton or Quinn. In fact, McDaniels gave a similar quote to Shanahan's just the other day regarding Tebow:
"The fact we draft a player doesn't change our depth chart. Every year, at every position where you draft a player, there's already a starter. Did I call all the linebackers last year because I drafted Robert Ayers?"
And when the Broncos traded for Brady Quinn, McDaniels also struck a similar tenor:
"I talked to him [Orton] right then and I told him this is a competitive thing as far as adding competition to any spot on our football team that we could. This had nothing negative to do with Kyle Orton. We are just trying to improve the competition at every spot.
So there you have it. Competition. It's a good thing. And it's in this spirit of competition, I say bring on Quinn and bring on Tebow. But let's be honest, even if one believes that Kyle Orton is the starter on the depth chart (as we have been told), you don't trade back into the 1st round for a QB because you are simply trying to create a little competition for two veterans. You do it because that is the guy you intend to build your team around.
Just like in 2006, Mike Shanahan didn't believe Jake Plummer was the long-term solution at QB, Josh McDaniels feels the same way about Kyle Orton. I thought the Quinn move was the first acknowledgement of that fact. The drafting of Tebow is an even clearer sign.
In short, if you think Tebow is sitting for two years while they work out the kinks, you, my friend, are loco.
This isn't to say that I'm giving up on Kyle Orton, or my personal favorite, Brady Quinn. It's just that actions speak much louder than quotes, and the actions of Josh McDaniels--along with a contract that has three years remaining--tell me everything I need to know.
So, it's time for me to embrace the reason why McDaniels drafted Tebow--he runs the spread like no one else.
Jimmy Johnson - King of The Obvious
Jimmy Johnson was recently quoted as saying this about Tebow:
"I don't think Tebow can play in a pro-style offense, not [at] quarterback. I think a team that's gonna look at Tim Tebow. They're gonna make one of two decisions. If they're going to bring him into their style of play, with their coaching staff, they've gotta project him to be maybe an H-back...He can't play quarterback...If you're gonna take Tim Tebow, and you're gonna say, 'OK, I'm gonna have him be our quarterback,' you might as well get rid of your coaching staff and hire a spread-offense coach. So bring in a new coaching staff. Bring in Urban Meyer with him and run that style of offense if he's going to be your quarterback, because he can't play in a pro-style offense."
Exactly, JJ. But guess what, big boy, Tebow is going to be playing for one of the two teams (the Patriots being the other) that copy many of the concepts and formations that Urban Meyer uses at Florida and for a coach that, offensively at least, thinks like Urban Meyer.
One of these concepts (if not the major concept) is the constant and persistent use of the shotgun formation in 3, 4, and 5 wide receiver sets. The goal is to spread the defense across the field, thin them out, create space for playmakers, and take advantage of mismatches (a linebacker on a wide receiver, for example) using quick passes pivots, and slants. In 2007, the New England Patriots became the first team in the NFL to use the shotgun for more than 50% of their passes (with Josh McDaniels as the offensive coordinator). In 2008, as Doug Farrar with the Football Outsiders pointed out, the Patriots (again with McDaniels), Cardinals, and Chiefs were all above 50%.
When I broke down every offensive play for the Denver Broncos in 2009, I calculated that the Broncos had 971 total snaps, 357 of which came from the shotgun. That's 37% of the time. Thus, the 2009 Broncos offense didn't resemble the 2007 or 2008 Patriots as much as we might have believed. Against the league average (32% in 2008) this is quite a lot of shotgun, but for Josh McDaniels, it wasn't nearly enough. I'm guessing you'll find in 2010 an even greater return to the shotgun.
I'm speculating here, but I believe McDaniels' need to implement more spread/shotgun is a primary reason for bringing in Tebow. He wants to operate even more spread/shotgun in the future and he believes Tebow is the perfect guy for it. So this business about Tebow struggling in an NFL, pro-style offense is overblown--at least in McDaniels' mind.
Now, I could describe how a QB's job is less progression-based under the spread, but our old friend Ted Bartlett did a pretty good job of this as this site, SmarterFans.com:
I know that some people say he can't read defenses, but that betrays a lack of understanding of what a QB does. Tebow wasn't asked to be a progression passer in college, but that's not the same thing as not reading defenses. What do I mean? A progression passer drops back from under center, and looks at a defined order of potential receivers; flanker: covered, tight end: covered, split end: open, throw to the split end. This is what Joe Montana did with the 49ers, and what west coast offenses look for...
...Reading a defense is not nearly the same thing. A great deal of reading a defense is looking at it pre-snap, and divining clues then. Is there a safety in the box? If it looks like a single-high safety, is he in center-field? (If not, it's more likely the box safety will drop back into Cover-2.) When you send a receiver in motion, does a CB follow him, indicating man-to-man? Are the outside CBs lined up tight, or off? Tebow has been exposed to some of this kind of pre-snap analysis, and has successfully employed it. At the snap, he's looked at what people are doing, to verify the pre-snap read. You can't be a successful college QB without being able to do these things, so anybody who says Tebow can't do it doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.
Bartlett brings up some great points here. The spread/shotgun--whether it be the type that the Patriots or Colts run--requires a lot of pre-snap information. That's not to say that the pro-style offense doesn't, but in a spread/shotgun, it's imperative. So let's not pretend that Tebow is totally clueless.
McDaniels didn't bring in Tebow to run a pro-style offense. He brought Tebow in to continue what he's been doing--punishing teams with the spread/shotgun, whether it be with the run or with the pass. To fail to realize this is to fail to realize what has made Josh McDaniels excel as an offensive coordinator.
The Curious Case of Matt Cassel
In 2008, one of the things that made Josh McDaniels a success was his almost magical ability to transform Matt Cassel from bench to superstar. Just how did he do it? Many have speculated. However, Greg Cosell with NFL films, wrote what I consider to be an enlightening piece about the reasons for Cassel's success in February of2009. His conclusion? The shotgun offense.
His piece was essentially a breakdown of two different versions of Matt Cassel. The first was the Matt Cassel that came into the Patriots offense and operated under center in pro-style formations. Here is what what Cosell wrote:
Early in the season the Patriots ran a conventional NFL offense, with Cassel primarily aligned under center. They used the shotgun only as an occasional changeup or, as many teams do, in long-yardage situations.
It became evident Cassel was not particularly comfortable dropping back from center. He often seemed rushed and hurried, with a tendency to quickly lose his reading definition. That's why he ran so frequently. He was not seeing the field with clarity, and his instincts compelled him to leave the pocket whether it was necessary or not.
Once the Patriots realized that the pro-style sets weren't working, they ran Cassel almost exclusively out of the spread/shotgun. Here is what Cosell noticed:
I remember breaking down Cassel's third start, the Patriots' victory over the 49ers in early October. He was very mechanical and robotic in his progressions and reads. If he could determine his throw based on the pre-snap read, he made it. If he couldn't, and he had to process information as he dropped, he struggled.
In addition, Cassel wasn't demonstrating the willingness to pull the trigger on tighter throws at the intermediate and deeper levels. Those are the kinds of plays that work off five- and seven-step drops with the quarterback under center. What the Patriots learned as the season progressed was that Cassel was far more comfortable and relaxed playing in the shotgun.
That defeat was the first of six consecutive games in which 88 percent of Cassel's pass attempts came out of the shotgun. The shotgun spread, often with three wide receivers, stretched the field horizontally. And the ability of the Patriots' outstanding coaching staff to dictate with formations, shifts and motions allowed Cassel to get rid of the ball decisively. It was predominantly a short passing game, with the throw defined quickly and the ball coming out fast.
Cassel had more rhythm to his drop and set from the shotgun. He was poised and comfortable, and he saw the field with more clarity. This led to more patience in the pocket, with less of a willingness to take off and run prematurely.
The other critical element that resulted from the widespread use of the shotgun was the functional space it provided Cassel in the pocket. There was more immediate distance between Cassel and the bodies in front of him, and that gave him room to step up and deliver.
In the last seven weeks of the season, the Patriots were primarily a shotgun passing team. They did not call a lot of drop-back plays. Why? Because Cassel was simply not very good at it.
For a first-hand look at what Cassel was doing in the shotgun/spread, check out this video from week 16 of 2008. You can see for yourself how effective Cassel was out of this formation, making easier pre-snap reads. His mobility was also enhanced out of the shotgun/spread.
Remember, the Patriots finished the year 11-5 and should have made the playoffs. And we know what happened to Cassel. He became a very rich quarterback. What I think McDaniels learned from his experience with Cassel is that the spread/shotgun can work quite well in the NFL. Moreover, with a somewhat mobile quarterback like Cassel, it's even more potent.
So potent, in fact, that this McDaniels drafted the most successful spread/shotgun QB in the history of college football just to run the system for the Broncos.
Writers and "Retreads"
In some ways, you can't blame the traditional media for their lack of belief in Tebow. They have seen other QBs come from the spread system only to be chewed up by the pro game. The latest is Alex Smith, although the verdict is still out. But they haven't seen a spread QB come into the league and actually run the spread offense. This fact has been pointed out by Urban Meyer himself:
"I think it would have worked years ago," Meyer said. "No one has had enough - I don't want to say courage - no one has wanted to step across that line. Everyone runs the same offense in the N.F.L. A lot of those coaches are retreads. They get fired in Minnesota, they go to St. Louis. They get fired in St. Louis and go to San Diego. I guess what gets lost in the shuffle is your objective is to go win the game. If it's going to help you win the game, then you should run the spread."
So if you are a writer and/or a draft pundit, and you have been listening to "retreads" tell you that a spread quarterback can't be successful, I guess it never occurs to you to question the pro-style offense itself. If you are told again and again that NFL players are too quick and too fast and that zone blitzes off the edges will always defeat the shotgun/spread offense, it might never occur to you to notice that Peyton Manning has been burning these kinds of blitzes in the shotgun/spread for years. If you are shown that a guy like Matt Cassel can go from high-school athlete to pro-bowl-caliber QB using the shotgun/spread, it's simply tempting to chalk it up to a fluke. And if you are shown evidence from a group like the Football Outsiders that teams operate more effectively out of the shotgun, you might be tempted to write something like Pete Brisco wrote about Tim Tebow:
"By far and away the worst pick in this draft. Wow. How can you justify trading away Cutler and picking this kid. He's a fifth-round pick -- at best. Now we know why Josh McDaniels will last one more year in Denver. Horrible. Just horrible."
This kind of writing reflects a lack of understanding of what Josh McDaniels wants to do schematically. It also shows a gap in understanding of what McDaniels is trying to do with the drafting of Tebow. While you may think that Tebow won't be successful, you can certainly come to grips with the thinking behind the pick.
McDaniels once said he's going to put an offense out on the field like something we've never seen before. Now I realize what he meant. The shotgun/spread is going to be more prevalent next year in Denver, and I, for one, will be interested to see how McDaniels pushes its limits and barriers with Tebow behind center. The QB power? Some option football? Stay tuned.
Until then, I hope that Orton and Quinn fight like hell to prove McDaniels wrong.
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Great Points as always
My question comes again with going to the spread system, is one, it has been tried before in the NFL (See Steve Spurrior in WA) and it gets QB’s killed in the NFL (see again WA). I do not doubt that McDaniels will push for Tebow to be the starter sooner than later, the question now really becomes can the spread system be an effective system in the pro’s. My feeling is that it may work somewhat, but that NFL defenses adapt quickly and unless you have an effective running game and defense, you will have a hard time winning deep in the playoffs.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
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BMan, and you bring up good points as well
I haven’t researched the Spurrier angle too much, but off the cuff, I would say Spurrier’s QB, Ramsey, just wasn’t that good. In college, although he threw for a lot of yards, he threw a TON of picks, way way more then Tebow did. I’m guessing (and it’s just a guess) that Ramsey threw more INTS in one season than Tebow his entire college career.
This means we’ve got a guy that can actually run the spread.
Also, don’t want to spend too much time on this, but did Spurrier really get the guys that he wanted to run his system?
But that doesn’t dismiss your point entirely,and that’s the crux of this entire debate for me. It shall be interesting.
Thanks for the read, btw.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Good point, Todd. The WAS line was, how should we say this? Um....no puedo con ellos.
They were crap!
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
How much better is ours?
Except for Clady, every position is a question mark.
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
college stats
Year G-GS C-A Pct. Yards Int TD
1998 3-0 3-5 .600 27 0 1
1999 11-11 310-513 .604 3410 24 25
2000 10-10 229-389 .589 2833 14 24
2001 11-11 256-448 .571 2935 13 22
Career 35-32 798-1355 .589 9205 51 72
so 10% worse completion percentage and we won’t even get into the TD/INT ratio =)
by Todd Jewell on Apr 28, 2010 10:37 AM MDT up reply actions
Good find. If you use the Football Outsiders QB projection stats (starts and completion %)
Ramsey would appear to have been a bust from day 1….Tebow, not so much.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
this year’s book out yet? mine from last year got used a good bit
by Todd Jewell on Apr 28, 2010 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm still using 2008! ha, that's why I am cheap!
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Good point
Who was the D coordinator at Washington during the Spurrier era?
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
The spread is already in the NFL. NE and Indy run over 50% spread.
If you have an empty backfield and five WR’s then you have the spread offense. Some call it the third down shotgun, but when you run it everydown then it becomes more.
If it makes you feel any better-
Spurrier didn’t run a spread offense, he ran a version of the Run’n’Shoot (ie the Fun’n’Gun). It does use multi receiver sets very often, but other than that the principles are very different.
Trivia tidbit for you; UF fans were actually infuriated with Spurrier for a period because of his staunch refusal to put his QB in the shotgun. 1996 was the first year he implemented it in his offense.
Winner of the 2009 Bill Parcells Award.
Less Lonely Leader of the Percy Harvin Bandwagon.
Agreed. I didn't want it to be a lovefest, however. But there are a lot of guys lined up on both sides.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Your heading reads like the menu at a brothel in pahrump
good stuff as always Dude!!!
I too dabbled in pacifism once...
by waltersobchakbronco on Apr 28, 2010 10:04 AM MDT reply actions
not that I would know anything about a menu like that, of course...
I too dabbled in pacifism once...
by waltersobchakbronco on Apr 28, 2010 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions
Why don't I believe you?;=)
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Excellent, TJ
My question is a variant of Broncoman’s. I like these moves and I agree that McDaniels should run the offense he was brought in to run. Call me crazy. But I wonder about the long-term durability of the system. Defenders keep getting bigger and faster. A football field is wider than it looks on TV (the camera angle foreshortens the view), but it’s not hard for me to picture defenses catching up with this system in the mid-term.
Of course, we can probablyl say that about any systematic invention. Shanny’s system wore itself out. So will Payton’s, and so will McDaniels’. But the personnel for this system seem so specializaed that we’ll eventually be looking at a super-painful hangover when the music stops, the party thins out, and the Broncos are left with a bunch of McDaniels’ players trying to run some new mad scientist’s schemes. And at that point, I guess we can all look forward to hating/defending the new guy.
by Chibronx on Apr 28, 2010 10:07 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I think I won't be against it.
If this system can produce 2 Super Bowls as Shanahan did. Shanahan produce two Super bowls with Elway and nothing after that. He keeps looking a QB like Elway big arm QB. And how long did it take for him.
So I’m fine with this system.
by OrangeBroncos on Apr 28, 2010 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions
Mike and John would not have won a SB without the running and ZB.
I love these two also but without stinky, nails, jones, and that bunch to allow Davis to co-host the backfield nothing happens.
About bigger & faster
I think NFL players now-a-days have already hit the optimum point in the big vs fast curve. Today, you get any bigger, you get slower. I doubt any more (legal) revolutions in physiology or training techniques will be able to push the human body beyond the limits currently achieved. So I think if Cassel can do it, Tebow certainly can.
by VABroncos on Apr 28, 2010 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
That’s an excellent point, VA. It’s always thrown out there that players get bigger and faster. But how heavy can a person be and still run a lot without injury? That’s an eye-opening point.
An interesting study
would be to take all the weights and 40 times of the last 10 years of draft picks of all the DEs and plot them on a weight vs time graph. Put each year in a different color. Then we could tell if players have reached their optimum points or not. I’m too lazy to do it, but it would be informative.
Here is the first step
William M Hartnett put together a database covering some 40,000 players BMI, height and weight, divided up by team, league and by offensive and defensive line. Not exactly what you were looking for, but fun nonetheless…
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/shared/sports/interactives/nfl_stats_database/
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Apr 28, 2010 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Could modern athletes have develpoed their muscle to the extent that it exceeds the strength of the tendon that it's pulling on?
"People who live in glass houses...shouldn't."
by jayrockstone on Apr 28, 2010 5:22 PM MDT up reply actions
Not necessarily.
Certainly your point has a lot of merit – there is a physical limit to performance based on the complexities of body mass, muscle leverage, fast twitch muscles and conditioning. However the limits keep expanding beyond what we previously thought possible. Take a specimen like Shaquille O’Neill or A. Bolt who would have been characterized as having gigantism earlier in the 20th century, but instead are incredibly gifted athletes with high speed and coordination not characteristic of an endocrine disease. Lineman used to weigh in the 220 lb. range which is now barely adequate for a running back! I wouldn’t be too quick to assume the levels of athletic performance have reached their optimum level just yet.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein
by Ponderosa on Apr 28, 2010 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
There's a flip side.
The Defenders Tebow (and Cassel) face are also at the optimum end of the power/speed curve. How much of Florida’s spread offense would eventually count on Tebow being the best athlete on the field, and let him “just go make the play”? I don’t know, because I watched very few Florida games. But we all know in the NFL, every player on the field…offense and defense….was among the ‘best athlete on the field’ in college.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
Coach Meyer's offense is based on having the ball-carrier be the best athlete on the field
Dan Mullen was the Gators’ Offensive Coordinator from 2005-2008:
"The greatest strength of the offense is creating mismatches and we rely on our personnel to do that," Mullen said. "We are trying to get our players in position to make plays based on a one-on-one mismatch in athleticism."
http://www.americanfootballmonthly.com/Subaccess/articles.php?article_id=4701&output=article
The Tebow Smash was based largely on his athletic advantage. Additionally, Tebow thrived because when plays broke down he could still make something happen. For example: UF-FSU 2007.
Tim Tebow 2010.
Bring the hate.
Feed the beast.
by GoGators15 on Apr 28, 2010 5:08 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Awesome stuff.
Thanks for the answer and the link!
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
by the time Bill Walsh's innovative system "wore out"
How many Super Bowls were won by “West Coast” teams? :)
The 49ers nabbed 5 of them. I’ll take 5 Super Bowls before McD’s innovative system “wears out”. lol
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Another consideration
With so many colleges now running some form of spread offense, there are fewer players available who are experienced in the pro style offense, but a smörgåsbord of players who developed in the spread. If we do make that change, then drafting quality players becomes easier.
That’s a heck of a point.
A related thought I’ve been having…. In 2010, I can count 16 teams that will line up in 30 fronts at least some of the time. Nose tackles are flying off the board in high-rounds, and 4-3 DEs are sitting on the board for previously inconceivable amounts of time. At some point soon, it will be worth while to zig while everyone else zags — to move back to a 40 front and start cashing in on those traditional DEs and 1-techniques.
Problem is, McD and the Broncos moved with the rest of the herd to a 3-4
… lol
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Along the same lines
That is why I was fine picking a center or offensive guard at pick 11 this year – eventually everyone will need an Iupati or Pouncey to line up against these 360 point nose tackes and defensive guards.
"Truth only reveals itself when one gives up all preconceived ideas." -- Shoseki
by elwaytogo on Apr 28, 2010 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
thats why pouncey was a first rounder
and walton a third, right?
Don't confuse level of draft with success.
Only time tells. The level of draft is also a function of predraft hype, needs of the teams pickiung high, etc. If there is only “3 % difference” (ie, they are close but distinguishable from each other) in two players. but one has to be drafted far higher due to pre-draft hype, the best overall draft is to take other needs or players and grab the one that is 3 % less.
I think one of the greatest qualities of MHR...
…has always been the willingness of staff and participants to try to view the Broncos from the view of what they might be thinking rather from the restrictions of our own— or mainstream— perceptions. This piece is certainly true to that cause. Some might call that exercise rationalizing; I call it analytical and open minded. Denver knows what they are trying to do, and trying to understand that is more productive than trying to fit them into the box of what everybody else does— or what we are used to. No use trying to skin the wrong cat.
I think you’re absolutely correct on Orton. Love the guy, but its impossible to conclude that McD is as comfortable with him as many around here have assumed. Competition is one thing, bringing in two first rounders for said competition vibes as something deeper to me.
I know you don’t like the D. Thomas pick, but don’t underestimate his part in the bigger plan. As Mayock put it, he’s a guy that can ‘lift the lid’ off a defense, which is of paramount importance if you want to live and die in the short to intermediate game. In his case, people shouldn’t get anymore caught up in ‘route tree’ concerns than the should in the reading defense fallacy so aptly exposed by Ted B. If you look at how Randy Moss was used in NE, you’re talking a bare bones route tree. Go deep, young man.
Moreno makes a ton of sense, now, too. He was described as one of the more accomplished and refined protection guys in quite some time coming out. He was also routinely praised for his great vision. These are two qualities that epitomize the ideal spread RB.
But now I’m just rambling..
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on Apr 28, 2010 10:08 AM MDT reply actions 10 recs
Thanks, PO. I really appreciate this.
Like some others, I wasn’t a fan of the pick in the 1st round. I thought we had too many needs, but as I researched this, I at least believe I can come to grips with the why.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
That is so right about Thomas. Even if the Broncos kept Marshall, they should have targeted him in the draft. There’s a reason that the passing game seemed so claustrophobic last year. ESPN’s AFC East clown actually talked about Marshall giving the Dolphins the deep threat they lacked. No, really.
Possession receivers are fungible. That’s why they drafted the field-stretcher on day one and Marshall’s replacement in round 3.
by Chibronx on Apr 28, 2010 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Funny to hear
Marshall called a deep threat. The only deep balls I remember him catching were missed assignments. He could never get true separation on a deep route. He was good at using his size/body to make the catch, but I wouldn’t go so far as calling him a deep threat.
Also, PO, about bringing in two first round quarterbacks behind Orton: How many teams are one ankle sprain away from a crappy back-up qb ruining the season? I love that we have some serious depth at this point. And all on reasonably cheap contracts (we’ll have to wait and see with Tebow).
Still got your Creedence...
by OutOfYourElement on Apr 28, 2010 11:45 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree completely on the depth...
…side. I’m also a huge fan of Kyle Orton the person. Just saying that bringing in Quinn seems like a good depth and competition move. Bringing in Quinn and then spending a first round pick on another QB seems like an indictment. That seems like overkill if you truly believe the existing guy is going to be a key contributor to your long term plan.
I’d love nothing more than to see Kyle Orton kick butt. I just wonder— based on these moves— if McD is convinced that will happen.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on Apr 28, 2010 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
KO is secretly hoping
all the talk of Tebow not being NFL worthy are correct!
I actually do hope Kyle has a knockout season. He deserves it! But I also think the writing is on the wall, as far as KO remaining a Bronco (unless he likes being a backup).
Still got your Creedence...
by OutOfYourElement on Apr 28, 2010 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Like to add...
Bring Quinn in before the draft was really replacing Simms at back up. Tebow was on our Radar from the very beginning and Tebow was the QB Mr. Bowlen was referring about before the draft and his wish became reality.
oc60
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts, we make our path."
Well stated PO and I agree with expanding our viewpoint to include one's we may not have considered before.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein
at some point
SBN needs to equip the site to be able to change the rec’d comments from green to silver, and from silver to gold as the rec’s pile up. this one would be solid gold sir.
"Devin Setoguchi’s haircut has released the dragon" ~Drew Remenda
For some reason I have a feeling Jumbo is going to be a goddamn beast this year. Sharks are going to be tied 1-1 in the series going on the road for game three in the first round, and five minutes into the second he is just going to take over. ~Plank
"He (Iginla) thinks he’s a pretty tough guy, so why not?" ~ Ryan Clowe
by Jay Fin Anderson on Apr 28, 2010 8:23 PM MDT up reply actions
Not exactly a comment about the spread offense
But I read a question in Peter King’s mailbag (only one man can get me to talk about his mail ‘sack’) that struck me as an excellent point: Vince Young was a 1st round pick and was in the argument for being taken first overall. This despite the flaws in his mechanics, and despite the fact that he was something of a ‘run first’ QB. Tebow is more athletic, put up better numbers, was more of a winner, a better leader, and I would argue has a less severe problem to work out in his mechanics. I don’t think VY ran the spread, per se, but I also seem to recall he was operating out of the ‘gun for a good portion of his time at Texas. Even so, VY was a unanimous top-5 selection, and other ’experts’ say Tebow is a 5th rounder. Ridiculous….
Excellent work as always, sir. Oh, and when do we get to see that mail sack? I’m sure it’s bursting with draft stuff….
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
by ncm42 on Apr 28, 2010 10:09 AM MDT reply actions 7 recs
Was just going to make the exact same point.
Tebow’s drive, intelligence, and attitude obv squash Vince’s, why is the mechanics issue such a big deal?
Also @Broncoman, Spurrier tried the spread in the NFL but with the most meddling/inept owner in the league and bad defense. I don’t think that should necessarily be the last word on the spread in the pro’s.
yeah SS never got the time or support, he was doomed to fail.
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on Apr 28, 2010 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions
NCM = Truth, Rec'd!
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Hold on there cowboy
Tim is not half the athlete Vince is. Tim is a great short yardage runner (4.25 yards per carry in college). Like a fullback. Vince is a tailback (6.8 yards per carry in college) with an arm.
Vince was 30-2 as a starter and won 1 national title as a starting QB. Tebow was 35-6 as a starter and won 1 national title as a starting QB.
Vince was an extraordinary leader in college, as was Tim.
by Broncos_FTW on Apr 28, 2010 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dude, I can't even write, I am laughing too hard with the cowboy line. I love it!
Vince Young is a fast man, true.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Vince Young is a head case.
But I still don’t see how VY is a Top 5 pick and Tim Tebow is a 5th rounder. lol
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
the 5th rounder thing!
sweet neptune’s trident. of all the pure, unaffected steaming heaps of horse pile…
and please, i’m not even a tebow fan.
uh… but i’m willing to learn…
Hmmmm...I strangely enjoyed being called 'cowboy.'
And you’re right, I misspoke saying Tebow is clearly a better athlete than Young. I also am not sure it’s entirely fair to say “Tim is not have the athlete Vince is.” The rest of your points are well taken, but…..wasn’t there some issue with Vince and his leadership abilities either his Soph or Junior year at TX? Did Mack Brown have to call him out at some point? I may very well be thinking of the problems he had in TN a couple of years back….
Either way, I think they are pretty comparable guys as far as being athletic, successful college QBs who had knocks against them for ‘mechanical issues.’
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
VY is fast
Tebow isn’t as explosive a runner, which is why people don’t think he can be as successful as a dual threat Qb. A good deal of his running success was just running college kids over, and that is an incredibly dangerous thing for an NFL Qb to do. VY also has a goofy, sidearm delivery, which is a lot easier to fix than the loopy, wind up Tebow has.
Also, VY put in possibly the greatest performance in a single game in that Rose Bowl against USC, and had a season where he routinely took over games where Texas was down and lead them back with late game heroics. Tebow, while incredibly successful in college, was not known for the ability to lead his team down the field in crunch time. IIRC he entered his senior season without having ever lead a Florida team who was down in the 4th to victory. I think he did it once last year, but I wouldn’t swear to it.
Actually nothing you said there about VY vs Tebow is true...
In 2005 Young led the nation in pass efficiency, only lost 2 games his entire career (38-2). Better leader? Quantify that please. UT absolutely ran and still runs the spread, that was the knock on Colt McCoy before the draft, that he hasnt run a pro-style offense. But to say that Tebow is more athletic than Vince, you flat out lost me there brother. Go back and watch the last drive of the 2006 Rose Bowl and remember that Vince was 10-10 on that game winning drive. Life long UT and Bronco fan here, so I get uppity about the Tebow v VY comparisons, in my mind Vince was the greatest force college football has ever seen, Tebow was all media hype IMHO.
by TX HOCKEY! on Apr 29, 2010 9:30 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
excellent post! rec'd!
I love it when I learn from these articles!
Didn’t realize the Cassell thing went down like it did. Interesting.
As far as starting Tebow soon… Please give him a full year on the bench coach? Hell, KO earned a year didn’t he?
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on Apr 28, 2010 10:09 AM MDT reply actions
well said, TJ
I accept that Tebow is our team’s QB, but I am just taking a wait and see approach. Don’t expect me to be in line for a jersey just yet.
fader nation is a conquered nation
Jerry Jones is Al Davis with a smile!
CHICAGO...Where Quaterbacks' careers go to die!
Don't blame you mdierk. I felt the same way until I drank some mysterious orange and blue liquid on Sunday night.
I really wanted folks to see how Cassel was able to be transformed with this style and realize that Tebow is not simply futile here.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
sadly,
the kool-aid is only working for me in regards to the nasty OL picks this year.
fader nation is a conquered nation
Jerry Jones is Al Davis with a smile!
CHICAGO...Where Quaterbacks' careers go to die!
I will admit, I am actually quite interested in seeing the Tebow experiment in real time.
I secretly would love to see him do what Gruden thinks he will—transform the position.
At 245 lbs, He can hold up to the running side of the QB spread…I think..haha
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
"sadly, the kool-aid is only working for me in regards to the nasty OL picks this year."
I’m excited about Decker and Cox also
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
How could you not like Decker.
I have to say that I was never turned on by Cox, though.
…Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Very funny.
In all seriousness, I really hope Decker takes #87. It would be awesome, and he was the 87th pick. Seems fitting. I think our offense will take off a little more than last year. Our WR core just got a whole lot better. Can’t wait for Madden now lol.
Take my advice, I'm not using it !!!
holy crap that is awesome
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
haha wow!
"Devin Setoguchi’s haircut has released the dragon" ~Drew Remenda
For some reason I have a feeling Jumbo is going to be a goddamn beast this year. Sharks are going to be tied 1-1 in the series going on the road for game three in the first round, and five minutes into the second he is just going to take over. ~Plank
"He (Iginla) thinks he’s a pretty tough guy, so why not?" ~ Ryan Clowe
by Jay Fin Anderson on Apr 28, 2010 8:33 PM MDT up reply actions
It will be an interesting year
I loved the writeup TJ. It’s an interesting perspective and I can see a good possibility of the coach going that direction. I’m curious to see how things play out between Orton, Quinn, Tebow and Brandstater. A lot of competition gonna be happening.
Say TJ, do you think Cassel’s struggles last year at KC were compounded because he wasn’t in the shotgun as much as when he played in NE? Or was it just being in KC? LOL
Well if the coaching staff in KC read the Cosell article and figured it out, they probably
would have decided to go in that direction. I’m guessing it was a combination of both, but if I’m KC, I’m putting him in the gun a LOT more.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
makes sense
If your going to give out a contract like they did for him you darn well better put him in the best position to succeed. BTW Rec’d the article.
thanks, mate
it’s a fascinating thing, the spread….generally teams beat it with the zone blitz, hence the line play
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Very good article
I think we already have seen what you get with Kyle Orton, a servicable quarterback that is competitive but is very limited as far as pure talent. Brady Quinn has done nothing to prove he can be anything in the NFL. He’s a gym rat with weak arm strength and questionable desicion making. As far as Tebow is concern the truth is we don’t know how any of the kids picked in this draft will turn out rounds 1 to 7, that is what makes these draft grades so idiotic. What bugs me the most is how Orton said he would go the extra mile to make sure he was “the first one in and the last to leave”, it shouldn’t take the acquisition of 2 QBs in the offseason to light a fire under your a**. Having said that Tebow has continued to impress with his desire and commitment, the guy showed up to his presser with a gym bag ready to work out.
"You're killing independent George!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Excuse me Art but where have you been Orton was already the first one in and last one to leave in fact hes been doing since the day he arrived over a year ago .
He said he would even harder which I find to be impossible . However I think last year we saw a QB who was mentally prepared to play as any QB int he league and I think year he will add the physical part to it and I think we will see Orton come in the best physical shape of his career and be ready to go . I cant believe anyone who followed the team this past year thinks Ortons needs some type of outside motivation to work hard .
by Hoopforia on Apr 28, 2010 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Excuse me Hoops I have watched every game last season
I’m telling you what I heard Kyle Orton say and I gave you an honest opinion of him. I think we already seen the best of Kyle Orton but I hope he proves me wrong and makes me eat crow and comes in this season in the best shape of his life and is the 2nd comming of Tom Brady but I just don’t see it. Look don’t get bent out of shape because I do not agree with you, life is too short. And insinuating that I haven’t followed the Broncos because you and I don’t see eye to eye is pretty childish.
"You're killing independent George!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
by Art Vanndelay on Apr 28, 2010 10:47 AM MDT up reply actions
If you followed the team you would know that Orton already is known as one of the first in last out his work ethic should never be a question for anyone who follows this team .
What bugs me the most is how Orton said he would go the extra mile to make sure he was "the first one in and the last to leave", it shouldn’t take the acquisition of 2 QBs in the offseason to light a fire under your a**. Having said that Tebow has continued to impress with his desire and commitment, the guy showed up to his presser with a gym bag ready to work out.
and Im not getting bent out of shape its amazing the stuff that gets pulled out of thin air . Suddenly Ortons work ethic is in question while tebows is great because he wanted to workout after his press conference well if I recall wasnt orton here working out the training facility within a day of the trade ?
by Hoopforia on Apr 28, 2010 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can see that you are a Orton fanboy so if you don’t gree with me that is okay. I have my opinion of the guy and you have yours. Like I said earlier I hope the guy makes eat crow, it would only benifit the Broncos and thats all I care about.
"You're killing independent George!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
by Art Vanndelay on Apr 28, 2010 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions
It has nothing to do with being a orton fanboy . Why does he have to make you eat crow for something that already proven to be not accurate.
He was practicing with the team before his tender was even signed . You should say you were wrong and just move on and stop embarrassing yourself over trivial stuff .
Haha
You are an embarrASSment. Not everyone is going to agree with you. I don’t care if he lives in the freaking facility overnight, I don’t think he will be anymore than a stop gap solution. So go ahead and continue to wash his balls just don’t expect everyone else to be there with you.
"You're killing independent George!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
by Art Vanndelay on Apr 28, 2010 11:29 AM MDT up reply actions
You dont have to agree with me . The fact is that orton was already one of the hardest working players on the team
Thats not my opinion thats coming from his teammates ,media and people within the organization .
You are so worried about disagreeing with me that you will keep arguing that Orton isnt a hard worker and the coach brought these other Qbs in because he felt Orton didnt work hard ?
again you are embarrassing yourself
You keep failing in your responses...
Move along, move along
"You're killing independent George!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
by Art Vanndelay on Apr 28, 2010 11:37 AM MDT up reply actions
Art, I think he has a point (really)
I’m not taking sides in this, just pointing out I think he’s been responding to your quote
What bugs me the most is how Orton said he would go the extra mile to make sure he was "the first one in and the last to leave", it shouldn’t take the acquisition of 2 QBs in the offseason to light a fire under your a**.
He wasn’t responding to your point of KO being just a “serviceable QB.”
When you say “what bugs me most,” it appears you are implying that is a main point of your argument. He’s just coming back with known facts that state the complete opposite of that aspect of your argument, that’s all.
Again, not taking sides. Just don’t want to see a solid MHR post degenerate into name calling and insults. Both of you had good points about different aspects of your initial comment and I hope to see more. We like differences of opinion here!
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
by BroncTastic on Apr 28, 2010 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
You make very good points
and I apologize to Hoopforia. I shouldn’t have insulted you. I can see now how I could’ve better worded my opinion.
"You're killing independent George!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
by Art Vanndelay on Apr 28, 2010 3:46 PM MDT up reply actions
No problem, my friend...
It takes a solid citizen to come back and say what you just did.
It’s understandable… we all have passion about our Broncos. Sometimes it carries us away a bit, but most of the time we at MHR manage to reel it back in as best we can, which makes this football board one of the best in the country. Glad to see you back! I’m sure (at least I hope) Hoopforia feels the same.
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
guys, it doesn't bother me in the least
a good and spirited debate
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
hahaha that shit was hilarious.
"Devin Setoguchi’s haircut has released the dragon" ~Drew Remenda
For some reason I have a feeling Jumbo is going to be a goddamn beast this year. Sharks are going to be tied 1-1 in the series going on the road for game three in the first round, and five minutes into the second he is just going to take over. ~Plank
"He (Iginla) thinks he’s a pretty tough guy, so why not?" ~ Ryan Clowe
by Jay Fin Anderson on Apr 28, 2010 8:38 PM MDT up reply actions
You really can't question
Orton’s work ethic, even before Quinn and Tebow arrived, he was a hard worker even in Chicago. I’m the biggest fan of Orton, but to question his work ethic is one thing that doesn’t make sense.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Motivation.
If Orton would have thanked McD and Tebow for the motivation to continue being the hardest worker on the team, wouldn’t he have been saying pretty much the same thing?
McDaniels keeps saying
that he tailors his gameplan to suit the opponent. Won’t it be tough to do that if your QB can only run one specific type of offense? If TT is successful, I expect he will be able to play from under center from time to time.
Have a good time all the time...that's my motto. - Viv Savage
Agreed. Good comment TD.
I think, however, you can see how successful he was with Cassel under the gun. McDaniels wants to spread it out. He wants to go more shotgun.
But yes, we do need some under-center plays, which I think Tebow can master. The good lord didn’t invent play action for nothing!!!!
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
by TJ Johnson on Apr 28, 2010 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey TD — but doesn’t a game plan mean emphasizing certain plays, successions, and combinations of plays? They way you’re talking about it here, it sounds almost like you mean changing the system.
My interpretation
was that it was more like playing off what the defense gives you, which is what any OC will do; however, they’ll do it within the confines of their system. They don’t want the opposing defense to dictate what the offense does. Instead, the offense will dictate to the defense the pace and style of the game. Of course, they’ll exploit the weaknesses of the defense, which is what gameplanning is. They’ll just do it in a way to keep the defense on its heels.
GO BRONCOS!!!
I guess it sounds that way.
But if you play a base spread offense, but run into a team that plays good pass defense but is feeble against the run, wouldn’t you rather come up with a gameplan that has your qb under center so you can hand the ball off a bunch of times then hit them up with some play action passes? Obviously McD has those types of plays in his playbook so I don’t know if I would consider that a change to the system….just my opinion.
Have a good time all the time...that's my motto. - Viv Savage
Orton, and spread draftees
Great work TJ.
I think Orton will have a great year, then go in 2011 – hopefully for compensation via tagging or compensation picks. And hopefully to a team he can call his own. He’s earnt it.
Further question: Which of are offensive draft picks came from spread offenses in college?
Demaryius Thomas, Georgia Tech – No
Tim Tebow, Florida – Yes
Zane Beadles, Utah – Yes?
J.D. Walton, Baylor – ?
Eric Decker, Minnesota – Yes?
Eric Olsen, Notre Dame – ?
Patience is a Virtue
Nice article. Some quick points. Spurrier was pulled to early in Washington and Washington was in the NFC East without enough bodies on the line to compete well in the division. Too bad for Spurrier. I always liked him, especially when he was such a hot QB in college. I don’t know why Spurrier didn’t make it as a QB in the NFL, he was cwertainly smart enough. Maybe he just wasn’t used properly. I was a big Tebow fan early in his college career, up until the Alabama game, where he didn’t do well even though he was still running Florida’s system. That was followed by the Senior Bowl, where he was used differently and also didn’t perform well. He is smart and talented. He is determined. But he will need time to adapt. Give him a break and don’t slot him into the starting role right away. I think he will do well, but I agree with McD’s public pronouncements that Orton will start in 2010, while an experienced Quinn will be back up. Tebow will compete with Brandstater for 3rd, with Brandstater maybe going to the PS (there is no way Tebow will be on the PS and no way the Broncos carry 4 QBs). 2011 is another story, with Orton and Quinn maybe looking at back up roles or gone.
OP, I think you've got a grasp on reality, one small quibble
There’s no reason to assume KO or Brady will necessarily be backups. As McX has stated, you make your own role on this team.
Here's my thinking
If Tebow does get the starting job in 2011 or later, someone will have to back him up. Orton was speculated to be in his best possible position starting with Denver. So, if he doesn’t keep the starting job with Denver, where is he gonna go? Starting QBs get axed if they can’t get the job done or if their salary is too high to keep them. Not a problem with Orton. He reminds me of Gary Kubiak, playing back up to Elway. Kubiak was good, just not good enough to start over Elway and apparently not offered a good starting job elsewhere. Orton’s salary is not high enough to boot him and if he performs well, but just gets outperformed by Tebow, he remains a candidate for back up. Quinn had a shot in Cleveland and for whatever reason didn’t hold on to the starting job. Denver may be his last shot at starting. If he does well, but not well enough to start, he may also be a candidate for back up because he will no longer be a candidate to start anywhere. Brandstater is now a long shot for anything, but I like him too. It all depends on how comfortable McD is with them and I think he likes them all.
Rec'd
Unless We go 0-4 to start the season (or worse, and yes, I knocked on sack… I meant wood), I am holding on to my hope that KO will get to start the whole season, I have a good feeling he is still on the incline as far as ability/understanding/overall performance go… I think he’ll beat last year’s numbers and have a new record year.
We will certainly see.
Great and informative read, Dude. Thanks man!
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Apr 28, 2010 10:36 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
If he goes Drew Brees, it's only good for the Broncos.
Either way, I’m good with it. Tag him if we have to.
Thanks for the read. PJ fo-eva, hah
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Im not going to lie..I told my dad that Orton would go Drew Brees the moment after Tebow was picked...
Orton is going to have a good year…a very good one…I can feel it in my bones
It's Also a "Contract Year"
I totally could see Orton go for 4000 yards, 24 TDs, 12 INTs, and parlay that into a truck of money from a team like the Vikings. Good for him, good for us and Tebow (I hope).
Tweeting via @jtkimbell
by studbucket on Apr 28, 2010 11:38 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
When you said
(typed) “PJ fo-eva” – I totally heard Mitch Hedberg saying it…. Had me rollin’ = )
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Apr 28, 2010 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Spread Option vs NFL offenses
SWG and I had a great discussion on this in the fanpost on the UF offense.
My concern has always been that many of these offenses seem to be 1 or 2 reads, and then the QB takes off running… I don’t see how that will work at the NFL level.
However, SWG pointed out that in fact, there may be 3 or 4 post-snap reads for the plays we were discussing. If that is the case, I can see this functioning quite well.
So in the end, I think the problem with many college QBs is they never made it past the first 1 or 2 reads before running… but that is not inherent to the system, and the same stuff works (see Payton’s work in NOLA, McD in NE, or even a lot of what Peyton Manning does) as long as the QB can get to those deeper reads. Its a spread offense in concept, but it is just taken to the next level of complexity compared to what many college QBs actually do… but given Tebow’s success in college, he may already be pushing that edge.
by cjfarls on Apr 28, 2010 10:43 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
1 or 2 reads...
A certain Franchise Quarterback I know of made it to the Pro Bowl without making even that many.
Velveeta = MF Truth
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
What I think alot of people dont get..
I don’t know if this is true for the UF offense but at houston and some local teams its not 1 read, 2 read, run… its 1 read, 2 read, run read, 4 read, and on. I think this could suceed at an nfl level. Case keenum said (I don’t remember when or have a link) that they have draw reads that are just open a lot because of how easy it is to run out of a empty set
by Warren Todd on Apr 28, 2010 1:39 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
This was kinda SWGs point to me on the UF fanpost...
… and if true, I could see it working at an NFL level.
My concern is folks do tend to say that many of the college spread schemes are meant to minimize the number of QB reads… I think that makes it a tough transition for many college QBs.
At the NFL level, the QB must be able to take the reads to the 4th/5th que, because the speed of NFL defensive players and disguises that speed allows makes life very difficult if you can’t go deep into your reads.
But SWG bsaically convinced me that the short progressions maybe more about individual college QBs and not any inherent fatal-flaw to the spread-option system.
NFL = SEC < Timmy T.
Everything people are saying about Tebow being an impending bust in the NFL, they said about him when he went into the SEC. “There’s no way that offense works against these athletes”, “he won’t last” and “he’s just not that good”. A house full of hardware later, he’s off to take on the NFL. Don’t bet against him…
MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!
Absolutely.
I just finished up watching a tape (DVD) that my buddy Alex had given me. It was the 2008 Florida vs. Georgia game. In the game, Knowshon Moreno and Matt Stafford were befuddled by the Florida defense. Meanwhile, Tebow ran for 3 TDs and threw a pair of TD passes as Florida CRUSHED the Bulldogs.
It wasn’t fun to watch Knowshon get steam rolled on every play, but it reminded me of last year in Denver, a bit. He was getting met at the line of scrimmage by about 3 gators, just about every snap.
It was interesting to watch Percy Harvin, as well. He only had 3 receptions, I think, but Florida ran it quite a bit. I didn’t look at the stats, but it seemed to me like Tebow ran it about as many times as he threw it. There weren’t a ton of yards to be had because Tebow isn’t a dynamic runner, but he got the tough yards to move the chains and seemed to take what the Georgia defense was giving him.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Apr 28, 2010 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions
The year before Knowshon Moreno shredded Florida for 188 yards and 3 TDs. :P
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
True.
I’d love to get my hands on that game film, as well. I betcha that Knowshon actually had some running lanes in that game, too.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Apr 28, 2010 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions
Great read
Denver fans are going to want to be on the right side when Tebow becomes the starter. Cause there will be a lot of “retread” fans when Tim shocks the world. I won’t want to hear the knew it all along crap.
by CastorTroy on Apr 28, 2010 10:53 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
Dude....'Face Off' is one of my favorite movies ever!!!
And I do hope Tebow does very well…but I want to see Orton do even better. I gotta root for my boy from Purdue!
Will it be vice versa
If he doesn’t work out? BTW I’m still in the area known as “we have bigger things to worry about.”
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Most coaches dont run the full spread because most know that Qbs dont grow on trees and once you open your QB up to the he is a runner and wont go down easily well then the officials are gonna become slow and slower with those penalty flags .
This is not college or HS its the NFL…. didnt Pat White teach us anything .
I think Tebow is a much better prospect than White but White also went to a team that had success and experience running the wildcat and he still struggled because unless you can come in and immediately establish yourself as a bigtime passer the defense always ends up fooling the running QB more than the running QB can fool the defense .
If we tried to go full blown spread option it would be a disaster. teach the guy how to be a QB and then branch out to some option plays after he establishes himself .
by Hoopforia on Apr 28, 2010 10:55 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
while Pat white had a really good completion percentage, tebow completed more passes every year than what Pat White even attempted. Pat White also comes in 40 pounds lighter than Tebow.
by Todd Jewell on Apr 28, 2010 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions
Tha 40 pounds
Isn’t in his neck where White got hit, doesn’t matter how big you are when you get hit in the head or neck.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
This is very interesting stuff.
If this is what McD has in mind and it works, we’ll be talking about him ten years from now in the same breath as Bill Walsh. The kid has some serious stones on him. We talk about players maximizing their skills because the want to be the best of the best. McD acts like one of those players. He’s not just going for a winning program for Denver, he’s going after a spot with the coaching greats. Can’t fault that kind of ambition.
Of course, if it doesn’t work he’ll end up the QB coach for six different teams by the time he’s 50.
THE OL IS THE KEY
Watching the Cassel video, revealed two things.
(1) The NE OL was just outstanding in giving Cassel time to see the play develop, and he being able to hit wide open receivers.
I am excited about our new “Here’s The Beef” OL, not just in the running game but also allowing the shot gun formation QB to have alot of time to perform his reads and complete the pass.
(2) Gaffney was the star “possession” receiver of the day. I would not count him out of being an important aspect of the 2010 Broncos offense success.
To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also DREAM; not only plan, but also BELIEVE.
The Orton Dilemna
IMO Orton should show great improvement in his QB play in 2010. This is his second year in McDaniel’s complex offensive system. And he should be able to play with a confidence of having the system being “second nature” in his playing abilty. In other words he should not be hampered by having to think too much.
However, going down the stretch last year it became clear to me that McDaniels was very frustrated with Orton’s play. Orton seemed to “hit a wall” in his abilty to convert his playbook knowledge to actual on the field performance. Granted, there were many more issues than just Orton – Poor OL play due to injuries, a collapse by the defense etc. But I believe that in those situations Josh was looking for Orton to step up and be a play maker, and it did not happen. IMO unfortunately that is no “who Orton is”. He is the safe, efficient, don’t make a mistake, but tough QB. He is not the put-it-on the line gambling QB alla Elway, Manning, Brady and I believe Tebow is type of QB.
Let the competion begin.
To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also DREAM; not only plan, but also BELIEVE.
I kind of agree
It takes a very good, not just good, quarterback to carry a team with a slow running game. Even players like Marino and Manning struggle sometimes if they have no run support. For a good quarterback like Orton, trying to carry your team is a very hard thing to do, and something he had never had to do before. McD expects results, but he has said before that the blame was team wide. Orton cannot carry this team alone, which is acceptable, few players can, so I really can’t blame him for our entire collapse. But he does need to keep improving next season.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Apr 28, 2010 3:36 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the read, mate
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
I'm no Mcdaniels lover, but to
summarize his very complex offense as a “spread” is understating it. It’s significantly more complex than Florida’s or any other college spread offense. Its main similarity to Florida’s offense is the use of the shotgun. That’s about it . . . that and the fact that Tim threw to guys designated as wide receivers. Florida had all-americans running wide open around the field. Percy Harvin was the best player on the natiaonal championship team. Denver has . . . WRs running routes with tiny throwing windows, just like any other pro offense.
I still am confused about what this means for Clady. I brought this up on draft day and was told that blind side protection isn’t that big of a deal. However, there’s a reason that left tackles command so much money. If Tebow does eventually become the starter, how do we justify a max left tackle contract for Clady? If we can’t, then I guess Clady leaves as well.
by Broncos_FTW on Apr 28, 2010 11:57 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
It's not about blind side.
It’s about strong vs. weak side. Even with left-handed QBs offenses tend to favor their right which means defenses tend to favor that side as well. There is a tight end/h-back/slot receiver on the strong side. Defenses put their best pass rushing on the other side because it’s one on one. Clady will stay at left tackle.
by jaffe28 on Apr 28, 2010 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Right, and rec'd
LT gets the big bucks because they’re often on an island, usually against the best pass rusher on the other side, and they are expected to shut them down.
by BroncosBassist on Apr 28, 2010 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Great read again TJ...Been looking forward to your TT Take!
- Whatever "it" was that got you to where you are today, "it" will certainly not be enough to enable you to stay there going forward! -
Thanks, man! This thread has a lot of action, so I can step back and let everyone discuss it.
I like it when a plan comes together!
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Oh, TT, good. I was thinking Double T or T Squared. These nicks will be fun
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Thanks, TJ!
Another thought provoking piece. I was also slack-jawed when McD pulled the trigger on Tebow. Time and my friends here at MHR have brought me around. I believe that Tim will run a modified McD offense and will likely set the NFL on its ear… at least I am hoping so. Thanks again, TJ! Rec’d for sure!
'The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.'
-- Albert Einstein
Appreciate it as always bear!
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Excellent analysis, TJ
Something that bolsters your suggestion that we will see more shotgun/spread formations in 2010: in 2009, on 3rd downs (of all distances) we saw Denver set up in the shotgun in 172 out of 228 plays. The only 3rd down setting that we didn’t use more shotgun formations than under center formations was on 3rd & 1. In every other case on 3rd down, the overwhelming majority of the plays started in the shotgun.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
Thanks, Brian. Good points. Glad the numbers hold up!
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Excellent, though long-winded post...
…my time was well spent reading this, although my brain is now swollen.
Here’s my take, TJ:
I believe we (McD & Co.) have some sort of hybrid PRO-SPREAD offensive scheme planned for Tebow. In other words, we design/contort an all new Pro Type offense to maximize the strengths and minimize the weeknesses (few that they are) of our up and coming starting QB. I don’t think an all-out spread would work in the NFL simply from the standpoint of protection while the play(s) develop. However, a spread/option with a tailback would generate all the options Tebow is used to, albeit require quick checkdowns/play action and ultimately quick decisions…but gives him the comfort zone he may require.
Regardless, I’m a believer! Tebow will be more than fun to watch leading us into the Promised Land.
Vinny Gambini: "Ms. Vito, Can you tell the court what this is a picture of?"
Ms. Vito: "Ya know what it's of"
***********************************************************************************************
by Bronco_Fan_Tom on Apr 28, 2010 12:51 PM MDT reply actions
I believe you are right in Pro-spread system...
There could be a little run and shoot, spread and Pro style offense all wrapped into one. McDaniels strikes me as an inovator of ideas and methods and it wouldn’t put it past me if he doesn’t develop his own system and scheme. He has been gather players to fit and they are bigger, more physical. smarter, tougher and versatile. When all of the pieces are in place then he’ll lower the boom with concepts people haven’t seen before and don’t think they will work when they do. I can’t wait for all of the possibilities…
exactly!
I, too believe McD will come up with some “freak” offensive concept with our physically “freakish” rookie in mind.
Vinny Gambini: "Ms. Vito, Can you tell the court what this is a picture of?"
Ms. Vito: "Ya know what it's of"
***********************************************************************************************
by Bronco_Fan_Tom on Apr 28, 2010 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Long-winded is my bag, baby.
But seriously, thanks a lot!
I agree. Not all the time, but believe me, you are going to see a lot more of it with Tebow under canter, my friend.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
First, McDaniels tries to jettison Cutler for this guy named Cassel
Then, he unloads one of the best proven receivers in the league for an unproven look-alike rookie. So now he has invested a first-round draft choice and millions of Mr. Bowlens dollars on a QB who is still learning how to pass. I don’t have nearly as much faith in his judge of talent as I once did.
Sure, Tebow is a tremenous athlete. So is Champ Bailey. So is D.J. Williams. So is Knowshon Moreno. How many of them will be playing QB? Amid all the hysteria surrounding the Broncos’ newest QB, disappointment looms on the horizon. McDaniels may not have drafted Tebow to sit on the bench, but I believe that is what he is going to do.
Orton is not nearly the athlete Tebow is. But then, neither is Peyton Manning, Brady, Palmer or even Big Ben. What is needed at the QB is not an athlete. What is needed is a QB. Orton is a QB. Is Tebow . . . at least on the pro level? I want to see it before I start drooling all over my keyboard . . .
-
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
Hey, AZ. If a guy were one of the best receivers in the league, wouldn’t you expect him to either a) Get lots of yards when he catches the ball, b) Catch a very high percentage of the balls thrown to him, or c) score more than 6 touchdowns in a year other than 2009?
Marshall does none of those things.
Well, you may be right about that . . .
But I still have lost a lot of faith in McDaniels . . .
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
Why did you ever have any faith in McDaniels then?
Losing faith in someone or something means you feel in your heart that he has utterly failed in job and if you feel that way what will ever convince you that he hasn’t?
Okay.
You put it in the form of a question, but you actually stated your own opinion.
Opinion noted . . .
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BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
Why is it...
…that every theoretical party in the Cutler – Cassell saga can categorically deny the Cutler/Cook version of events, yet an entire element of the faithful just can’t let it go? It almost as baffling as how, with the Beast’s storied history of problems with the organization, he can emerge the tragic hero while McD morphs into the villainous lone gunman. (These are rhetorical question/comments, by the way.)
The only similarities between B. Thomas and B. Marshall are size an race, by the way. Totally different players with totally different skill sets.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on Apr 28, 2010 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is true, PO.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Look-Alike?
AZ, Eric Decker is Marshall’s replacement. Possession receiver who lines up outside the hashes. That’s Eric Decker’s role. D. Thomas is a field-stretching receiver. He catches the ball over his shoulder (Marshall caught it while facing the QB). You know who’s position Demaryius Thoms is playing? Ed McCaffrey’s. McCaffrey averaged 16.5 yards per catch in 1998. That’s what Thomas is shooting for.
So, in summary:
Eric Decker = Brandon Marshal
Demaryius Thomas = Ed McCaffrey
I'll buy that . . .
Just hope they’re both up to it. But then, don’t we all?
-
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
OMG, past is past
AZ, get over it what Broncos have been looking for and needed since Elway retired a FRANCHISE QB. Thinking outside the box in terms of intangibles is an aspect Tebow brings that none of the other QB’s since Elway retired – STAR POWER. If Orton had that magic charism he’d be a super star, but he doesn’t have it requardless what he can do as a good football player. Like Elway, Peyton, Montana, Sanchez, Tebow has that STAR POWER the charism that everyone either hates or loves. That is my defination of Franchise QB along with football talent. e.g. his jersey #15 already one of the top sellers in one week since Denver drafted him. All the national media either for or against Tebow is STAR Power. Tebow has already put Denver back on the map, Bronco’s fan base will increased because of him. Broncos/Tebow is the beginning of a NEW ERA that McD can finally call his team now we get to watch McD implement his plan, it’s your choice to enjoy the ride.
oc60
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts, we make our path."
Oh look, it's one of our DP bloggers
“In the trees” if I’m not mistaken. You and I have battled many times…me and my Kool-Aid VS. you and your Cutler-Love.
Well I won’t pretend to try and convince you on the beauty of this draft…we’ll just agree to disagree.
Vinny Gambini: "Ms. Vito, Can you tell the court what this is a picture of?"
Ms. Vito: "Ya know what it's of"
***********************************************************************************************
Are you talking to me?
I ask because you didn’t enter it directly as a reply to me. Anyway, I haven’t spent too much time posting on the DP. The few times I have, it as been as “LarryB.” I believe I did tussle once with this “In The Trees,” however.
As for the draft, I really like it, for the most part. Thomas and Decker will be good receivers, IMO. Beadles is an animal, and now that Clady is apparently injured, we will need him and his colleagues on the line all that much more. J.D. Watson will probably become a fixture at center. Cox may be the steal of the draft: Even though he was taken in the 5th round, he may be better than Alphonso.
It is about Tebow I have questions. Yes, he is a terrific athlete and a good person, too, I understand. But is he a QB? I mean, one justifying his #1 selection? At this point, I doubt it. I believe he will become a solid QB, but not a superstar. He may be good (if he learns how to pass on this level) but not great. That does not translate to a #1. I would love to be wrong. We’ll see.
Meanwhile, I was one of the first, oh, 20 or so posters on this board, I believe. So I am not a recent arrival from the DP, as you seem to picture me.
Nice chatting with you. Enjoy your day . . .
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BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
by AZDynamics on Apr 28, 2010 2:34 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
oh, ok...you tussled with "In The Trees"...
…was this an internal battle of wills, sorta like Me, Myself, and I?
Look, you are who you are, and have your opinions. The least you can do it own up to them.
To answer one of your most ridiculous questions: Is Tebow a QB? Um, yes. That is his position in football at EVERY level…you’ll find the letters “QB” next to his name on all stat sheets.
My question to you, in the same vein is: Is Cutler a QB, oris he actually a DB secretly playing on the other side of the ball?
Vinny Gambini: "Ms. Vito, Can you tell the court what this is a picture of?"
Ms. Vito: "Ya know what it's of"
***********************************************************************************************
by Bronco_Fan_Tom on Apr 29, 2010 7:59 AM MDT up reply actions
Well, it takes all types . . .
And you certainly are one of them. 
Glad to see you’re enjoying yourself. Have a good day . . .
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BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
Yes, I am enjoying myself...
…and I honestly hope you are as well.
Seriously, no animosity here, my friend…just playful banter. Naturally, we both have the same goals in mind…that is for the Denver Broncos to win and again become Super Bowl Champions. Right? How we get there is the point of these discussions.
I, too…hope you have a great day.
Vinny Gambini: "Ms. Vito, Can you tell the court what this is a picture of?"
Ms. Vito: "Ya know what it's of"
***********************************************************************************************
by Bronco_Fan_Tom on Apr 30, 2010 9:09 AM MDT up reply actions
The game of football has taken on many different styles and fashions of offenses and defenses...
The ever changing face of the game is the reason why so many coaches who were very successful in the early part of their career often slide into oblivion and one that comes to mind among many others is John Madden. His style and system went in a different direction and the same with Mike Shanahan and his zone blocking offense. Players are getting bigger and faster and if these coaches don’t catch up or keep up with the changing times then they will eventually fall by the way side. It will be interesting to see if Shanny is willing to bend to the new horizon or will he stiff his stance on what got him 2 Super Bowl victories.
I have fast forwarded in last couple of days to 2024 in which it will be Tebows 15th NFL season if he is still playing and I can’t help but wonder how it will all play out…Will he be given accolades along side the great Elway or will he suffer the fate of the bust? Only history will tell us these things, but if I was a betting man I would have to have my money on Tim…Great post TJ and one of your best ever! Rec’d…
by bfree2bronc on Apr 28, 2010 1:42 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
remember
Drew Brees and KO both ran the spread at purdue, they both took more than 90% of their snaps from shotgun
by Warren Todd on Apr 28, 2010 1:45 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
That's some good info.
I did not know that. It changes my perspective a bit. How is Orton so immobile?
Cause he has injured his ankles
But it should be noted that Bress isn’t the fastest QB around either. Running spread isn’t some magic thing that proves you’re mobile.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Hes never been in a position where it was "HIS" offense . Last year he ran Joshs offense and lin Chicago he ran "the bears " offense but hes never been in a position where he was allowed to take the risks that scrambling brings
here is a quote from Orton from BEFORE the draft .
“There’s things that I got to do to improve, obviously, or we would have been in the playoffs last year,” Orton said.
He said he wants to be a stronger leader and make better decisions in games.
“I think I can take my leadership to a whole new level,” Orton said. "I think to have a great offense, you’ve got to have a guy that demands it from everybody, starting with himself. I demand perfection out of my play and I’m going to expect that from everybody else on our offense, as well. So, I think that’s my main goal.
“And second, just take this offense to a whole new level, whether it’s at the line of scrimmage, whether it’s making the plays down the field, whether it’s making something out of a busted play. Whatever it is, just make sure we get into the end zone when we need to get into the end zone.”
I personally dont think we will ever go 100% shotgun because no matter how you choose to do it you just would open your QB to a beating.
Orton is unique in terms of his skillset .
He played 100% out of the shotgun in hs and college and the big thing with him coming out was could he learn to play under center because he as a "spread " qb . He was considered to be very good at reading defenses coming out of college .
He went to the bears and learned to play under center and became so good at it he was running no huddle from the LOS like manning his last year with the bears .
I have a feeling Orton is gonna surprise this season and I Tebow will benefit from Ortons experience moreso than McDaniels .
by Hoopforia on Apr 28, 2010 3:38 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
hey tj, what happens to the running game if we go full on spread?
i know everyone says the quick passes are an extension of the running game. how effective were runs out of the shotgun in NE? i see on pro-football-reference that in 08, NE ran for 2278 yards at a 4.4 y/c rate. do you happen to know how often those attempts came out of the shotgun?
im just wondering how effective are runs coming in shotgun formation. can you still run the same type of plays? mostly when i see a run come from shotgun its a draw, but generally like you said most teams mainly run shotgun when its 3rd and long.
Well,
I don’t have stats to back it up, but I think Florida runs as much as or more than they throw the ball. And I don’t think Tebow lined up under center for more than 20% of plays, if I had to guess. If that. Of course, that’s college, so I guess I’d have to say I don’t know, but you could probably run out of that formation with some success. It remains to be seen just how much.
by BroncosBassist on Apr 28, 2010 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions
The Short Pass
NE was great at 2 things in the shotgun .. the short pass as run and the screen.. so I’d expect that in denver.. plus if you pass alot, the draw should be wide open alot.
Wow TJ
I was wondering if you would mention Alex Smith, and then, Boom!
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
TJ - Kudos - Kudos - Kudos
Great article like it thanks.
oc60
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts, we make our path."
Thanks, OC. I enjoyed brining it to you.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
It was a mistake benching plummer and it will probably be a mistake benching orton
i don’t agree with benching guys when they struggle unless our team just starts out absolutely horribly. We were in the playoff hunt when plummer was benched.
QBs get hurt all the time. Let Tebow come in then not before.
I agree, mistake for the team AND for Cutler.
BTW.. why is it that when I hear someone predict TT will be starting this year, I keep remembering our ferver to see what KO can do in a complex system in his second year. It is STILL a complex system; rushing TT out onto the field is not the best option, regardless of where he was drafted, regardless of how many picks were given to move up, regardless of how much talent he has. Injury, or absolutely horrible play by KO, should be the only way he sees the field as the #1.
Dude - O - rama
I’ve made the comment that I needed a surgeon to remove my TV from my foot (figuratively, of course, but remarkably close to literally) When it all comes down, I’m a huge Bronco fan. Josh knows way more than me. That’s why teams hire coaches to make these decisions, not electricians.
I’ve been privy to much more information about Tebow since the draft. Your thoughts, along with other positive statements, have calmed my initial frustration. McD’s own words about NE incorporating some elements of Urban Meyer’s offence into their own makes me wonder if he didn’t target Tebow since hiring on with the Broncos.
I felt the same way during many of Shanahan’s drafts (ESPECIALLY JARVIS MOSS…I’m just sayin’…) I don’t think this will turn out anywhere near the apocalypse that is the unfortunate Mr. Moss. I liked Tebow, but, with the awesome early moves, I was thinking “beef” and “bust you in the mouth” for logical choices.
Now that the young man is a Bronco, I hope he does things that no one has ever seen before (in a good way, of course)………………. I’m hoping, more than believing, that Orton will become the QB we all want him to be. I do expect an improvement from last year. There’s just something about the way he moves…..or doesn’t actually move……more like falls down, that bothers me. I know, Iknow, I’m just a layman, and my opinion means oogatzs to football experts, but the “fall down” thing really fried my shorts. I was hoping that he would either fix that, or that they’d find somebody that didn’t do that. I was hoping that maybe Brady Quinn might be that guy, but I need proof first. If he doesn’t pan out, maybe Brandstater could surpass the “anti-weeble”…. ( sorry, been holding that in for too long).
Tommy B is unproven, as is Quinn, as is Tebow. Orton has something to prove, as well. Someone will step forward.
Trust me, I wish Tebow well.
"People who live in glass houses...shouldn't."
Why hello there!
I see you’re good at grooming QBs!
Let me teach you how to take a backup caliber QB and turn him into draft picks! I’m talking about Josh McD’s Ultimate QB Farming guide!
Step One: Pick out a QB who is smart and but is lacking. Noodle Armed or Mechanically defunct are a plus!
Step Two: Coach them up!
Step Three: Put them in the best possible situation to succeed by playing to their strengths!
Step Four: Trade them
Step Five: Draft more questionable QBs with lower round picks!
Step Six: Repeat
In no time you will be in draft heaven with more draft picks than you could EVER imagine. Just think at all the holes on defense you could fill with an extra 2nd or maybe even an extra 1st EVERY year.
Get Josh McD’s QB Farming System for the low, low, low price of firing your old head coach and hiring him!
Too lazy to do this yourself? We are already accepting quotes for the revamped 2010 Brady Quinn model! This offer is NOT available in stores! Void where prohibited (San Diego, Kansas City, and Oakland).
Why does Madden suck at ranking the Broncos so much?
by ChristianL on Apr 28, 2010 9:05 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree ChristianL!!
Josh & Co. could really create a dynasty if they can do such a thing! I’ve been thinking ( only since the TT pick), that this may very well be one of the things that Josh presented to Pat as a part of his interview process? Having an " in-house, QB Factory" would go a long way toward not only keeping Quality back-ups available, & therefore allowing for better continuity for our team, but also as a very good way to continuosly “re-stock the shelves” so to speak! I, for one, am really enjoying this process of discovery taking place before us, & I even enjoy a goodly amount of the positive speculation that goes along with this time of year! THANKS FOLKS!!! GO BRONCOS!!!!!!!!!
Dude!
Seriously, my man, THAT was possibly the best in a long line of ‘best of’ articles from you. great, great stuff. the only thing that might—and probably doesn’t—keep this out of my #1 slot is the shortage of cheesy 80s nostalgia. almost makes me miss the hair band series. almost. bonus points though, for managing to hardwire bunnyman echoes in my brain for the last 12 hours or so. …uh, although maybe subtract a few points for soldering a pouty image of timmy tebow along with it… yipes.
thanks, oxmouth
how can I outdo myself? I have no idea…..perhaps a retro piece on I-Hops and Daryl Gardner
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
excellent article
great comments. i liked the tebow pick pre-draft. most fans didn’t believe we needed to draft a qb, especially after the quinn trade. that’s 5 picks and hillis for a pair of qb’s with excellent college careers. mcd is looking for greatness. because basically people, there comes a time in a game/season where you just have to make a play to win a game, with little help. get the first down, or better yet, touchdown. this kid is a big-down machine. i expect that to continue, in the near future. the shotgun will benefit our 2 new qb’s, linemen, and receivers.
unfortunately, i’m just not sold enough on any of the 3 qb’s that were on our roster to lead us to Valhalla(that is where we are going, right?). crucify me now. mcd took 2 more chances to find a long-term advantage at the most important position in the nfl, period. i really don’t have a problem with that. next year, though, more defense please! i still expect orton to win the starting position this year, and it looks like tom bra… is going to be the odd man out. question seems to be are we going to dress 3 qb’s if all play well this season? might have to
taste my blitzkrieg!
sign doom now
Thanks, Dave, I agree, and after see him in the first practice, I'm even more convinced of it
I think he looked really good.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...

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