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Uncertainly Plagues ILB for Denver

When I was asked for a piece on Mario Haggan and the inside linebacker position, I went through the three research files on Haggan that I had already developed and quickly realized that there was a lot more to the situation than just a story on Mario. Since I've covered him a few times already, I felt it best to deal more directly with the question, "What options do the Broncos have for ILB this year?" Since getting it all done solo wasn't an option right now, I gave a call to the Dude, admired the way his rug pulled the room together and enticed him into the project. Never one to miss out on some play time, TJ tossed in with gusto. At this point, you hopefully can't tell where one of us stops and the other begins, in a literary sense. We both hope that you enjoy the offering. Doc and TJ

Over the course of the 2010 offseason, questions abound as to the direction that the Denver Broncos have chosen for the last few weeks of free agency and the NFL draft. The initial question was what to do abou the defensive line, one that failed in the second half of the season. The acquisition of Jamal Williams, Justin Bannan and Jarvis Green has almost undoubtedly bolstered the size, power and ability level of the defensive line. The progress of Chris Baker, Everette Pedescleaux and the changes that Marcus Thomas are attempting (losing over 20 lb. in an attempt to compete for a DE position instead of NT) are unknowns that Broncos fans will continue to speculate on until training camp reveals their progress. One thing is certain, though - Denver is recovering its long-held reputation as a desirable destination for quality free agents. Regarding his own experience, DE Jarvis Green said,

"I know that when free agency hit, I was like, "Denver Broncos, Denver Broncos"... The last thing I remember is watching him (Josh McDaniels) doing the fist pumps at the end of the game, and I saw that and I saw the energy, and the players, they way they're playing for him, and everybody wants to play for a coach like that. And I was like watching guys from the sidelines and I thought, "Hey, man, I want to play for a coach like that too".

The new looks that we will see on defense apparently will include a greater emphasis on blitzing, including cornerback blitzes. The recent acquisition of Nate Jones adds a dimension to the secondary that was missing for much of 2009. Jones played with Renaldo Hill and Andre' Goodman in Miami and one of his strengths is the cornerback blitz. Jones is also known as a stronger tackler than talented cover guy Andre' Goodman, and has played corner, nickel corner and safety in his 6 seasons in the NFL, 4 with Dallas and 2 with Miami.

Star-divide

A second question haunts the defense. Inside linebacker Andra Davis was singled out as the first of the linebackers to be replaced - he was given his release as early as possible to ensure that he had a chance to connect with another team. As as new player for Buffalo, Denver fans wish him the best and will recall him as a class act and a solid mentor and locker room model who the Broncos faithful will miss as a person. Given the performance of the run defense during the second half of the 2009 season, however, his release may have been a surprise as far as its timing, but there is little question that the ILB position is in need of changes that will complement the upgrades to the defensive line. DJ Williams is written in ink into one of the slots, generally the weakside ILB. What options for the SILB do the Broncos currently have?

 

1. Mario Haggan

Is Mario Haggan going to be the inside linebacker in a 3-4 (or 5-2) front? With the release of Andra Davis, that question is upon us. In an earlier interview, Josh McDaniels intimated that the Broncos were considering simply moving Haggan to ILB and increasing the playing time for 1st round draft pick in 2009, Robert Ayers. While that is certainly one option, there has been a great deal of concern in the MHR community over this situation, and several scenarios have presented themselves.

Mario himself doesn't know at this time where they will want to play him. In an interview this past week, on whether he plays inside or outside, he said:

"I prefer to (just) be on the field, to be honest with you. I had a lot of fun last year, I've had a lot of fun my whole career playing linebacker, so do I think that I can play it (inside), yes, do I think I can play outside, yes, so the coaches, they know I can do both things so it may be something that they look at but right now I'm preparing to play outside linebacker, right now. "

Haggan also points out that the reason that he's 'better' now than he was in Buffalo is just that he's gotten an opportunity. He always felt that he could do this for a team (come in and start and contribute) but really didn't get the opportunity. When you look at his record in Buffalo, it bears that out - when given a chance to play, he came in and got the job done. He was always a better fit for the 3-4, though, so it's no surprise that he was one of the defensive leaders last year. The McDaniels/Nolan defense emphasized having the outside linebackers set the edge and the ILBs make the majority of the tackles. It's a good lesson for the practice squad guys, or for the guys that don't get activated on game day - it's all about opportunity. When that opportunity comes, you have to be ready.

But Haggan isn't the only candidate for ILB on the Broncos right now. While they may expand their options during the draft, there are some other ways that they can go, should they decide to. Let's go over the options as the team stands right now and then go over some options in the draft.


Other In-House Options

1. Nick Greisen

Greisen is a mystery to many Broncos fans, and for good reason. A 6'1, 245 lb ILB, Greisen spent 4 years with the New York Giants, one with Jacksonville and two with Baltimore before coming to Denver in April of '09. A knee injury in training camp put an end to his 2009 season but he's reputed to be ready go go this spring. Greisen has been more of a talented special teams player and backup linebacker, so he has his work cut out for him in landing a position on the team. Right now, he's been dropped from the team roster as of April 1. There's no information as to whether he'll be back, so it doesn't look good for him.


2. Spencer Larsen

It's hard not to list the 6'2, 243 lb Spencer Larsen as a fan favorite. One of the very few three way players in the history of the NFL, Larsen has played MLB, ST and FB. He missed much of his sophomore year with a freak shoulder injury from a slip and fall accident, and was extremely effective in both special teams and in the fullback slot when called upon last year during the time that he was healthy. There is a lot of interest in whether the Broncos can afford to lose him from the FB slot. However, he's still listed as an ILB as well as FB on the team roster, so he may have the opportunity to fight for a starting slot.

Drafted in the 6th round of the 2008 draft, Larsen was the heart and soul of the Arizona defensive unit at middle linebacker. Mike Shanahan quickly saw the versatility of Larsen and used him sparingly at MLB, but consistently on special teams where he made two of the most powerful ST tackles that I've ever seen. The second one, against Kansas City, is still available on YouTube. Shanny also saw Larsen as a blocking fullback, and area where is is good enough to be hard to replace. Despite dealing with a spate of injuries in 2009, Larsen may get his chance to fight for a starting job at ILB in training camp this year.

Larsen doesn't have blazing speed, running in the 4.8-4.84 range most of the time, but that doesn't stop him from fiercely guarding his section of the field. When he was up for the draft, Rivals.com said,

"...may fit best on the inside as a pro. His versatility will allow him to play in different situations after playing both inside and outside backer and that experience will allow him to be a flex defender for a front seven. His instincts and sure tackling gives him a chance to start or fill a key backup role. He gives total effort at all times and is a fierce competitor who sets the pace for a defense. He competes as well as anyone in this draft and ranks high as far as special teams skills is concerned. He understands his responsibilities in the defensive scheme and carries out his assignments well."

Larsen is already known as a vocal leader. Denver has no shortage of leadership on defense right now, but Larsen fits in with that mentality perfectly. While it will be hard to fill his slot at FB if he is permitted to make the move, he's made no bones about feeling that he's a linebacker in his heart. The next question is whether or not he can be one on the field.


3. Wes Woodyard

An undrafted free agent out of college, playing for Kentucky, Wesley Woodyard was constantly told that at 220, he was too small and too light to play linebacker. Happily, he didn't believe any of it. He managed to start for much of 2009 at Will and was a solid if not spectacular player. He did manage to average 10 tackles over 5 of his games in 2008, and that should give any casual fan a quick understanding of why you don't want to underestimate him.

Woodyard confirmed this week that he's currently at about 230 lb, after playing in 2009 at 228. The staff would like him to get up to 236 or so of solid muscle. He has a lot of talent for a young player. Woodyard can penetrate to hurry the QB, fall back into coverage or stop the run. While he needs to become more consistent on all three, player development was a mantra when Josh McDaniels was in New England, and is clearly becoming one in Denver. WW is one of only three players listed as ILBs on the current roster at denverbroncos.com, but we all know that at this time of year, that roster is nothing more than an NFL requirement and has little bearing on reality.

One the same note, Braxton Kelley, who was on the practice squad last year is simply listed as 'LB'. He's 6'0 ad 230 - very light for the inside, but he could have put on 5-10 lb of muscle (or last weight) for all we know right now.


4. Baraka Atkins

Currently listed as an OLB/DE, Atkins is a classic tweener, standing 6'4 and weighing in at 268 lb. Uncertainty is no stranger to this player - he was chosen in the 4th round of the 2007 draft by Seattle, where he stayed for two seasons. Atkins didn't start a game with Seattle, and moved on to San Fransisco, where he was activated but didn't play in a game. Atkins may be a long shot to make the Broncos, but you can bet that with Darrell Reid recovering from a knee injury, a guy with similar skills, height and weight will be given a chance to show whether or not he's an NFL-ready player. Atkins signed a reserve/futures contract in January and will have to prove himself to make the squad. His official time at Combine was 4.69 for the 40 and 1.56 in the 10 yard segment. He's not blindingly fast, but he's about normal for an ILB or OLB. He played DE mostly in the past, but could learn the inside game. Otherwise, he's possible insurance for Reid taking too long to heal up.


The Draft

There's no question that the draft offers several options at the OLB and ILB slots, and I wouldn't be shocked to see one player coming from each. While the lines should be the first concern of the Broncos, that doesn't mean that they will fail to fill out the LB roster.

One thing that sets this draft apart from many others for Denver is the fact that they have, without question, an opportunity to draft an ILB such as McClain or Sean Weatherspoon, OT/OG/C such as Trent Williams or Maurkice Pouncey, a DE or a NT such as Dan Williams or even a DE like Jared Odrick. They may also have first choice at CB, and Joe Haden could beckon. Rarely does a team find itself with choices matched to their needs in such a way. The question will likely be: What does the FO see as their biggest need?


1. Rolando McClain

The most vocally popular option, without a doubt, has been the chance of taking the excellent ILB Rolando McClain at the 11th pick in the draft. There are certainly some strong advantages to this - McClain usually has decent tackling skills, is a good run-stuffer, rushes the passer well and is a natural leader. Like all players, he also has weaknesses. His are in two areas - the first is pass coverage, which is a reasonable concern. He is not at the point where his man coverage skills are where they need to be. His zone coverage skills are better, but he is admittedly weaker in that area than I would prefer for a player taken that high in the draft. DJ Williams was toasted more often than New Year's Eve last year in coverage, but he was experiencing yet another change in position. It's not unreasonable to believe that he will continue to improve in this area, but one of the things that I would like to see in Andra Davis' replacement is a better coverage skillset. That's not McClain's strength, even though it's quite possible that he will improve here over time.

The second problem with McClain is a risk management issue. No matter which side you come down on, McClain has a disease that is capricious. His past experiences do not foretell how well or badly he will do with the disease over time, and no amount of argument or theory will change that. It's a medical fact; it is not a belief, a theory or a personal prejudice. You're looking at using a 1st round pick on a player who may or may not be able to continue to play. No one can know, either way. There are no crystal balls, and you cannot accurately say that because medication and diet have helped so far, he is unlikely to experience a flareup that could impact his career. That statement is medically inaccurate. I hope that such a situation never happens to the man, but ignoring this is pointless. It's the elephant in the living room, and it's not going to leave. It's a risk, and some team will undoubtedly take it. The question of whether or not it is Denver will be answered later in April.

There is a third issue, and it's not without merit. Many systems of the 3-4 place less financial emphasis on the players at ILB because many LBs have the skillset to play there. Obviously, you always went the best players possible at every position, but it's fair to say that many teams that run the 3-4 don't put their greatest money on the ILB. They put it on the OLBs who rush the passer. Elvis Dumervil and his problems with a tender was caught in a situation that was set up by both the players association and the owners, but he will have his day, his contract and his money (althogh improving his run stopping would greatly expand that paycheck). It just isn't likely to be this year. the owners will save money when they can, especially with a potential lockout looming in 2010. DJ Williams is making a lot of money right now. Taking McClain at 11 puts a lot more money on that position. Is is worth it? Many will say yes, others will say no. It's a discussion that is well worth having, but again - it will be settled later in April. Wes Woodyard was tried out at ILB last year in training camp, and he's also an option. His coverage skills aren't great, but they are better than the average LB. There are other options, including Don Butler and other LBs from the draft, so let's consider them.


2. Donald Butler

Another ILB that has been linked to the Broncos as a potential 3rd-round option is Donald Butler. Although he didn't play with the same notoriety as McClain, he looks every bit the part of an inside linebacker, standing more than 6-1 and 244 lbs, although he did drop to 235 for the combine (Denver would encourage him to work out hard and gain that weight back in pure muscle. Tuten is very good in this area. Butler's pro-day 40 time was 4.61, so he's also versatile enough to get into coverage on tight ends. As Pro Football Weekly pointed out:

"Reacts quickly to what he sees. Good athletic ability Plays with leverage and can scrape and fill. Agile to slip, avoid and beat blockers to the block point and makes a lot of plays in the backfield. Solid open-field, wrap tackler. Stepped up in big games (see USC and Arizona). Able to stay on the hip of backs and tight ends and has man-cover skills. Times up blitzes and shows closing burst to the quarterback. Coachable. Respected team captain and vocal leader. Versatile--has lined up inside and outside..."

We all know McDaniels likes versatile linebackers. Butler fits this mold. A blitzer, solid tackler, and a guy who can get into coverage, allowing Denver more flexibility to slide between a 3-4 and a 4-3. Not having to come off the field on 3rd downs is a huge benefit as well.

Is Butler just a slightly bigger version of Wesley Woodyard, though? This would be my chief concern. While Woodyard is 228 currently, and Butler another 7 lb heavier and has played at 244, right now both men are looking to be around the 235-lbs. range and both can cover.


3. Brandon Spikes

It appears as if Florida Gator Brandon Spikes, a former 2nd-round lock, is now destined for the 4th round, due to his horrendous 40-yard dash time (5.03) at his pro-day. As a pure 3-4 ILB, he is similar to McClain, punishing and a hole filler. One can't doubt Spikes on tape. He simply made plays. Sure, his senior campaign hurt his stock badly, but as a junior, he did have 93 tackes, 2 sackes, and 4 interceptions. That talent still exists, and it can be had for a price a lot cheaper than McClain if the Broncos want to take an ILB in the middle rounds.

Spikes is more versatile than the scouting reports would have you believe. In college, he often lined up in a 3-point stance to rush the passer. And he did log 6 interceptions in his college career, which was more than McClain. Still, he's destined to become a 2-down linebacker.

Is this a real upgrade over someone like Haggan or Larsen? If you are looking for speed comparisons aside from your gut reaction, Larsen ran his 40-yard dash in the 4.82-4.85 range and Haggan ran his 40 at 4.88. At the same time, playing speed and foot speed in a straight line without equipment can be much different. It's certainly true that spikes was fast enough for college, but is he fast enough for the NFL? His decision-making quickness will be one of the factors that comes into this situation.


4. Jason Worilds

Many are projecting Jason Worilds out of Virginia Tech as an OLB for a 4-3, but given his size (6-1, 254 lbs), he's the type of guy who is versatile enough to make the move to the inside in a 3-4 system. His combine 40-yard dash was a decent 4.61, but average by elite OLB standards. His stock has been steadily rising since the combine and there's a chance he could go drop off the board by round 2. This is interesting, because his slide down the draft board was originally caused by his poor 2009 season, in which he finished with only 49 tackles and 4.5 sacks, down from his previous year's total of 62 tackles and 8 sacks.

Worilds strengths (pressing off blocks, backside pursuit, and solid wrap tackling) combined with this weaknesses (not a great pass rusher) would suggest that a move to the inside at the next level is exactly what's best for him. His average speed suddenly becomes very quick on the inside in a 3-4 and probably ensures that he could be an every-down ILB. Moreover, his extensive experience in the 4-3 allows for the Broncos to employ his versatility from both the outside and inside, depending on the down, distance, and blitz scheme.

Is he worth a 2nd-rounder to the Broncos, given they could probably get Butler in the 3rd or Spikes in the 4th? Probably not, but if Worilds falls into the 3rd or 4th round, his versatility makes him a more attractive option than Spikes, I believe.


5. Micah Johnson

If the Broncos want to wait until the late rounds to attempt to unearth a diamond in the rough at ILB, they might want to pull the trigger on Micah Johson, a 6-2, 256-lbs. plugger from Kentucky. Johnson has been really flying under the radar thus far as we approach the draft for two reasons. First, the value of ILB is always lower than that of other positions in general. And second, Johnson's 40-yard dash times (4.99 at the combine and 4.88 at his pro day) were underwhelming to say the least. However, there is combine speed and there is tape. And Johnson had some great games this year in the SEC and finished with 105 tackles. The guy is a tackling machine between the tackles on 1st and 2nd downs. His value in the 6th or 7th round is ideal.

A better option than Larsen or Haggan, however? That's hard to say, and a lot is riding on where Denver wants Haggan to go, as well as whether we find a FB type to replace Larsen, who is exceptional in that slot.
He might be just as valuable at ILB and be on the field more, and that needs to be factored as well.

6. Daryl Washington

Around the mock-draft community, Washington's named gets mentioned as a possibility as an ILB, but it's hard to imagine that the Broncos would go in that direction. McDaniels has a preference (this is no surprise to MHR readers) for bulk, and Washington, although standing over 6-1, tips the scales at only 229-lbs., so he'd be in a similar position to Wesley Woodyard, who the Broncos are already asking to add bulk, and Braxton Kelley. Washington could end up sneaking into the late 1st round, and would likely be gone by the 2nd round, so this is another difficulty, given all of the other needs facing Denver. However, if Denver does indeed deal Marshall, and the Broncos find themselves with extra 2nd-round picks, I believe Washington could get a look as under the "best player available" scenario.


Conclusions

The final word on this situation is simply that there are several viable options for the Broncos to fill the void that Andra Davis' departure has left. Denver has multiple options on the team already and several more considerations in the draft. While using a 1st round pick is always an exciting option in some ways, it's also worth consideration of exactly what the value is that you can afford to place on a single position or area of need. With DJ's conract being as high as it is - he just received a 3 million dollar bonus - it's tough to put in 11th pick money to ILB. The full amount of his contract is as follows:

9/6/2008: Signed a six-year, $32 million contract. The deal contains $13 million guaranteed, including a $4.5 million "signing" bonus in the second year. 2010: $3 million (+ $3 million roster bonus due in March), 2011: $4.9 million, 2012: $5 million, 2013: $6 million, 2014: Free Agent

With 6 million already going to DJ, Doc just doesn't see 1st round money going to McClain. There are other issues, but the contract status is a very real part of this decision. The choice will indicate a lot about what the McX team is looking for. A willingness to play out for McClain also indicates that the Broncos see ILB as one of the keys to their nerwer, more aggressive defense.

There is also a final point that may end up trumping all: While the Broncos had no shortage of targets for the pointing fingers of blame that were brought on by their 2-8 finish, one was surely the play of the offensive line. There may have been a similar issue that cost the Colts their Super Bowl this year. It's worth consideration that Jim Caldwell noted after the SB that the Colts had lost it on the strength of the OL. It's a good lesson for much lesser clubs, too: First, you fix the OL. Then, you fix everything else. Some people will suggest that ILB is the biggest weakness for the Broncos. I'm not sure that I'd go that far even after much of FA has rebuilt much of the DL, but OL and ILB are certainly in the top three in terms of need. The question remains - what direction will the McX team go?

Bring on that draft!

Poll
Who Would You Like to See Most at ILB?
Mario Haggan
131 votes
Spencer Larsen
311 votes
Wesley Woodyard
146 votes
Baraka Atkins
6 votes
Rolando McClain
707 votes
Donald Butler
127 votes
Brandon Spikes
96 votes
Micah Johnson
34 votes
Jason Worilds
7 votes
Daryl Washington
12 votes
Danged if I know
200 votes

1777 votes | Poll has closed

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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Actually l like Brandon Graham at ILB....

He could be THE one!

"Attitude reflects Leadership" Hogblog...aka KSM

by Hogblog on Apr 4, 2010 2:13 PM MDT reply actions  

He’s an OLB in our scheme, no?

Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.

by aLuffabo on Apr 4, 2010 2:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

yes!

been watching alot of film on this guy and like Hog I could see Graham moved to the ILB spot. love this guys heart, leadership and nose for the quarterback….no complaints from me if we pull the trigger on this dude…go blue

by (8) on Apr 4, 2010 3:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

Brandon Graham at ILB takes away his biggest skill, outside edge rushing. It’s almost the same thing as drafting Suh to play a 3-4 NT. He could probably do it, but it would not play to his strengths.

by swg777 on Apr 4, 2010 3:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

not at the nfl level imo..

his natural position coming out of high school was ILB..

http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=1780323

not sure at his size and arm lenght that he’s a good fit for OLB at the nfl level.

by (8) on Apr 4, 2010 4:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

I've read that he is NOT 3-4 material

I’ll be honest – I didn’t keep it in my archives, but I’ve run into this twice. Too bad, too. Great size/speed combination, a solid player who will probably do very well.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 4:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

he may not have to be

He’s still a weak possibility, and for outside. It’s merely a question of how much room they have. Situational pass rusher is still on our need list but there isn’t much room at S-OLB with Ayers. We have to project a starter position for him in the base set or it’s hard to justify.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Apr 5, 2010 5:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

Brandon Graham led the nation in tackles for loss. I repeat, Brandon Graham led the nation in tackles for loss. He had 28 sacks the last three years. Moving to ILB would limit his immense upside with rushing the QB. Don’t get me wrong, I think Graham is the best 3-4 OLB in this draft (hard to predict I know) but I don’t see him as a MLB without taking away a large portion of his skill set.

by swg777 on Apr 4, 2010 4:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm not going to argue with that

Yes he did, and since I don’t have the reference handy on why they didn’t think that he’d make the change, I’ll take your word on it. You open a point though – if they do, as McD suggested during the annual "The Coach I Lying Through His Teeth time, move Haggan to ILB, getting a top or near top OLB would have a lot of sense behind it.

Is it just me, or does the issue of Doom playing the run concern anyone else? I know that it was just his first year, and what a first year!, but I thought that his ability to stop the run just wasn’t what a top OLB needs to be accomplishing.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 4:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

Emmett, I agree about the concern with Doom’s run stopping ability. I’m hoping he will show a distinct improvement in that area. I think Ayers will likely start at LOLB this year and surprise a few people. Drafting a stud OLB would be fine with me, as competition is always a good thing, but we did just draft Ayers at #18 overall last year and the whole position duplication thing would be frustrating. I could get onboard though.

by swg777 on Apr 4, 2010 4:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

Tender for Dumervil

I don’t think we tender Doom at 1st and 3rd if we think he is just a situational pass rusher. The coaches must think he can make improvement in the run game. I was watching the Indy game yesterday and Ayers played quite well in the 1st half of that game. I too am excited to see how he progresses this year. DJ also played a good physical first half especially the tomahawk to the side of Addai’s head after he got the unnecessary roughness penalty on the play before.

by Pembisito on Apr 4, 2010 4:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think that it mght limit Doom's eventual payday if he can't stop the run better

If we brought in another OLB who was more versatile, you’re still going to put Doom out there on passing downs, particularly third. It’s pretty clear that the emphasis on stopping the run starts with the DL, and they did quite a job on bringing in folks who can do that.

By the way, I’m personally very interested in watching M. Thomas getting back down to 298 or so. He was one of the few who looked very good in the short and unlamented 3-4 experiment that was run in early 2008. He might end up finally playing the right position for his body type and skillset. He’s athletic as heck (300 lb men who can do back flips impress me. It’s that simple) and did a good job both dropping into zone coverage on a zone blitz play and rushing the QB as an RDE. I hope that he comes through – I don’t know why, but something about him has me rooting for the guy.

As I’m sitting here typing, a 6.9 Richter scale earthquake just hit Baja California and rolled right up the coast, through our area. The house shook pretty good for 30 seconds to a full minute – we’re getting a few aftershocks as well. No damage….no problem. Kind of a big one, though – the biggest since I’ve moved here. Keeps live exciting in the offseason….lol

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 4:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

Always

liked Marcus Thomas I really hope that guy makes it and becomes a consistent starter. I was excited when we drafted him because as you stated he is super athletic for a man his weight.

Academe, n.: An ancient school where morality and philosophy were taught. Academy, n.: A modern school where football is taught.

Fans don't boo nobodies.

by LynchtheD on Apr 4, 2010 6:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

I was...

In San Diego at an Easter drum circle off the 52 and the 5…that was a fun quake, you could feel the waves in the ground

"It's okay to eat fish, 'cause they don't have any feelings" - Kurt Kobain

by JChase8410 on Apr 4, 2010 11:21 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

RE: DOOM & 3rd downs

If we indeed draft or aquire more of a run stopping ROLB to play in running situations I would think that teams would go to hurry up after 2nd down to keep DOOM on the sidelines for 3rd downs.

I bet Manning would not let DOOM set foot on the field the whole game if that was our approach. Seems like a much too easy way to take the league’s premiere pass rusher out of the game.

I haven’t watched video focusing only on DOOM but my impression from last year was that he set the edge fairly well vs the run in ‘09. Sure, he’s not a run stopping beast but I think he is better against the run than he gets credit for. Of course I could be wrong on this since like I saId, I have not reviewed video of DOOM’s play in 2009.

It would just be a shame to take the league’s leading pass rusher out of the game and then have the opposing team go hurry up, keeping him out. If I was a coach, I would employ this tactic to nullify DOOM’s effectiveness if the Broncos tried to only use him in passing downs.

Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein

by c_style on Apr 5, 2010 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

I did some reaserch

For a post I did on Alex Brown

But Doom is somewhat effective against the run, but when comes to the field, he isn’t thinking about the back, he is focusing on the QB. Having a solid running stopping ILB or LOLB is key to stopping the run in 2010

My emptiness says it doesn't care.

by Topher Doll on Apr 5, 2010 2:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

Excellent post.

One correction, though. You spelled Micah Johnson correctly in the post, but you spelled it “Michal” in the poll. I voted for him, anyways.

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6

by Troy Hufford on Apr 4, 2010 2:21 PM MDT reply actions  

Fixed, KB. By the way, I´ve not been able to get through the MF stories, yet, but I´m pulling thee

trigger tonight my friend.

It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...

by TJ Johnson on Apr 4, 2010 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

Take your time, Dude.

Whenever I make a new MF story, I have to go through and read the other ones, too, just so I can get in the right MF writing mindset.

Oh, and I rec’d this post, by the way.

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6

by Troy Hufford on Apr 4, 2010 3:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

Haggan

I like him, but I don’t think he can be an every down LB. Either picking up someone else in FA, like Alex Brown, or in the 2nd or 3rd round of the draft, Jason Worilds, would go along way to give depth and variety to our defensive scheme.

My emptiness says it doesn't care.

by Topher Doll on Apr 4, 2010 2:28 PM MDT reply actions  

i voted haggan as we have so many other needs in the first round...

i sure do hope McX is as smart as we hope they are… this year is crucial!

by Whidbey Bronco on Apr 4, 2010 11:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

If we are to believe that the regime won't go after McClain because of his illness,

then I would hope for Donald Butler. There are some very good prospects in this years draft and McClain is a #6 talented prospect that someone will gamble on and I am not sure McDX will. Worilds, Graham, Butler and Jamar Chaney (fastest 40 time and 26/225 reps, 39 inch vertical). Great work Doc and rec’d.

by bfree2bronc on Apr 4, 2010 2:38 PM MDT reply actions  

ditto on Chaney

He’s certainly done everything he needed to do in the all-star/combine/pro day circuit. He’s ahead of Spikes now in some rankings. What I’ve said in my many posts on this topic is there’s no way we fill the spot with someone who can’t pass cover. Use existing resources to man the position and add elsewhere of defense or find an ILB who can run. We’re only looking to cover the 2 downs that Davis was on the field, and Haggan and Larsen can do that. A few prospects fit the bill, such as Chaney and Butler, but we don’t need to add anyone unless they can broaden the mix of skills at LB. I’d rather have one of the plentiful OLB/DEs who could increase our pass rush on third downs or add to pass coverage.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Apr 5, 2010 2:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

Colinski

Are you posting any of the mocks that you’re going on Draftek or similar sites? I thought those were very valuable last year.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 5, 2010 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

awash in MOCKs

I’ve reached the MOCK saturation point lately.

I’ve been a little disappointed in the results of DraftTek’s simulations. It takes a lot of tweaking to get the needs’ values adjusted to where they match my sense of our draft decisions. There’s still too much of a generic positional mindset. I don’t think that every prospect suits us, but the criteria for downgrading prospects is too elusive for the software. I’m not that enthused by their Big Board either.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Apr 5, 2010 5:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

Voted "Danged if I know"

Truly stumped here. Weatherspoon is another attractive option, but I am not sold on anyone. Trading a 3rd for Morrison also sounds tempting, but I have to confess I am not an authority on his play.

Thanks for the write-up guys!

by NedBronco on Apr 4, 2010 2:55 PM MDT reply actions  

Leatherhead Larsen first

Then acquire Brown in the 3rd, keep the Haggan option open. You are right when you say fix the Oline first. Thats why I say Pouncy in the first, BUT play him at guard, so that he can learn the line calls. Start him in 2011. Fry or Olsen start this year.

by RichardC on Apr 4, 2010 3:05 PM MDT reply actions  

Interesting points, Richard

Most OL do sit for a year, play on the scout team and learn the NFL game. Good as I think Pouncey is, if they either sit him or start him at guard, I’m not surprised. However – he could easily be another Clady and start right away. I’m very impressed with him, and he fits our needs awfully well.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 4:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

Koa Misi

Watch out for Koa Misi out of Utah as a darkhorse. 6-3, 250, making transition from DE.

by Pembisito on Apr 4, 2010 3:13 PM MDT via mobile reply actions  

Misi is awesome, but I think he is destined to be an OLB in our scheme, don’t you think?

Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.

by aLuffabo on Apr 4, 2010 3:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

Read this...

Read this report from on Misi. From reading this it appears he may be versatile enough to make the transition. It also seems we are interested.

by Pembisito on Apr 4, 2010 4:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

Very interesting guy

Thanks – he was one more on the list of possibles, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we got him.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 4:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

So many options...

It is nice to have so many options! This seems to be one area where we don’t have to reach for anyone and can let the board come to us.

by Pembisito on Apr 4, 2010 4:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

Cool. I had Misi in my “All-Samoan Mock Draft”, and he seems like an underrated player to me, and one who would be good value where he is expected to go. And also, he is Samoan, and he kicks ass.

I still feel like taking a guy who played primarily defensive end (even if he was undersized) in college and moving him to ILB is too much of a reach, but I’m probably wrong. :)

Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.

by aLuffabo on Apr 4, 2010 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'd like Misi a lot more...

…if he would grow out his hair.

That seems to me to be the main ingredient missing from his badassness repertoire :~)

Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds. - Albert Einstein

by c_style on Apr 5, 2010 2:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

Terrific post, gents!

It’s good to see all the options laid out… I think we all tend to forget about the options that exist on our roster already, especially when it comes to talking about drafting McClain.

Here’s my thoughts….

Mario Haggan – I think he will stick at SOLB. I see a reversal of playing time between last year and the upcoming year between he and Ayers, I think Ayers takes over and gets the majority of playing time, while Haggan backs him up. I don’t think Haggan’s talents can be utilized as well on the inside in our scheme as they can on the outside. He is very good at setting the edge on the strongside on run plays, why move him out of that? McDaniels’ comments indicate he thinks otherwise though, so what do I know?

Woodyard – I made a fanpost a few months back about what we all thought of Woodyard and Larsen. It’s obvious that we all like them, but I think the prevailing thought among us is that we like them and their abilities, but are unsure on whether or not they are starting material in the league. I like Woodyard, I think he is instictive and a good tackler, I would be happy if he is seen by the coaches as the starting option at SILB for the future.

Larsen – I think the same thing about Larsen as I do about Woodyard, I like them both. I think Larsen has a better shot at earning the starting role next year than Woodyard does, and I think there is a good chance that happens. Larsen is just a damn good football player, and I hope he stays healthy and gets more time on the field to prove it once and for all.

Now, if McX decide that the answer to our issues at ILB are not found within the current roster, I hope for a few things to happen in the draft:

First, I hope we avoid Rolando McClain. We’ve had some good discussions around here lately about the subject, particularly involving myself and Sharpe. I don’t think McClain will be able to make as big of an impact in the NFL as some people expect, purely because I worry about his foot speed, and also to a lesser extent, his propensity to tackle high and attempt too many arm tackles. That coupled with his disease, makes me very weary of spending a first rounder and the contract that follows it on the guy.

Second, I hope we go after Donald Butler. I see a very instinctive player with all the tools to succeed. If we find a way to get him in the third, EPIC. But really, I would be happy seeing our second used on him.

Now, as far the rest of the draft, I would love to see our first used on:

1. Bryan Bulaga – Don’t think he will fall to 11, but if he does…
2. Trent Williams
3. Pouncey

I just love the idea of getting players who can be insurance against the uncertainty that is Harris’ injury situation, but also an elite level player who we can put on the inside of the line (LG) and solidify what would be the best young OL in the league, if healthy.

Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.

by aLuffabo on Apr 4, 2010 3:13 PM MDT reply actions  

Harris

From what I’ve heard, there is NO uncertainty regarding his situation. He aims to return June 11th-13, one of our mini-camps, MORE than a month prior to training campl RT in the first round is absolutely not an option. Not in the least, and if it is, I may just barge into Dove Valley and demand an explanation :)

A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.

by Sayre Bedinger on Apr 4, 2010 3:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

LOl - I could see you doing it

I’d even help catch you when they toss your tush out…..jk. The issue with Harris is that this injury has a very high rate of re-aggravation. It bothered Gates for two seasons – more like 1.5, but still…given the job that we got from Polumbus, an OT who has guard capability wouldn’t go amiss.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 4:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

I can’t tell 100% from your comments, but are you saying you like Polumbus or dislike him? I am entrenched firmly in the “I don’t trust Polumbus in the least” camp, so it would be nice to hear that you like him, is that the case?

Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.

by aLuffabo on Apr 4, 2010 5:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don't like how he played at all. I've mentioned this on other threads.

I honestly think that he’s done. That’s why I’d be fine drafting a player who can fill in soon at RT and who can also play guard. Of course, if he weighted 325, ran a 5.00 40 and could play center, that would be OK too, as long as I’m wishing for things ;-)

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

Haha, OK, when I first read it, I mis-read it, and now that I’ve re-read after reading your last comment, I can see clearly what you meant, and that is that Polumbus sucks. I’m glad my last sentence wasn’t confusing….

I, like you, sincerely hope that Polumbus isn’t on the roster next year, and also hope we find a guy in the draft to replace him and provide better protection against another injury to Harris. Even a guy like Veldheer, Fox, or Ducasse in the 2nd and later rounds would be good options. But my dream pick is still Bulaga at 11, let him play LG next to Clady (holy awesome!), and he can be a better-than-good backup at RT and LT, for that matter. Super duper value!

Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.

by aLuffabo on Apr 4, 2010 5:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

Bulaga, Ducasse, Calloway

I wouldn’t be suprised at all if we went Bulaga, Ducasse and Calloway with our picks and fill in the rest of our draft with a WR, RB, and ILB. Our O-Line needs help and all of these players can play almost every position on the line. Polumbus is gone, Gorin is gone, Hochstein will stay because of his versatility but he will be a gadget lineman and in the jumbo sets. He may even allow us to keep only 2 TE in Quinn and Graham because of his versatility.

by Pembisito on Apr 4, 2010 5:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

I want Ducasse for the T/G pick

He could play Guard as a starter, IMHO, but could be effective as backup to Harris.

by BroncosBassist on Apr 4, 2010 7:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

I hear you, but…

Like Doc said, Harris has proven 2 things so far in his career:

1. He is an elite right tackle, when healthy.
2. He spends a lot of time hurt. And, those type of toe injuries are no joke… I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it flared up again next year, and for the rest of his career.

Now, the team proved one thing to us last year when Harris got injured: We don’t have capable backups at the RT position to be able to perform well enough when Harris is out. Our downward spiral last year miraculously coincides with Harris’ injury timeframe.

So, I look at both Bulaga and Trent Williams as insurance against Harris being hurt again. But, I think either one of those guys could step in and start from day 1 at either guard position. They are both versatile enough to do that, so it fills a position of need in one spot, and provides insurance against injury in another. Bulaga would also provide insurance against (god forbid) an injury to Iron Clady, Williams not quite as much. Anyways, that’s my reasoning behind the pick….

Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.

by aLuffabo on Apr 4, 2010 5:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if what you said comes true.

And, I want to play the what if game for a moment. What if Dustin Fry turns into the Tom Nalen we miss, would we draft a center high then? What if Seth Olsen steps up and becomes the starter at left guard? Would we go after a guard high? What if Ryan Harris is fit for duty would we draft a tackle high? Tyler Polumbus didn’t get the job done last year, we all saw that, but he is young yet and can he improve? The what ifs will drive any person crazy with trying to figure the whole thing out, particularly with the OLine.

Back to the ILB position and McDaniels’ remarks at the owners meeting. He lied to an extent of Haggan being the man in the middle. Sure he played the slot last year and probably will again this year, but I don’t project him being the starter there. We will cover our bets at that position almost guaranteed. I wouldn’t even be opposed to a OLB being picked somewhere along the way.

Another position is runningback. Do we suppose Buckhalter isn’t going to be injured this year and we have unknowns with Arrington, Hall and Ball. Do we draft a RB? How about the wide receiver position? Nobody knows what’s going on with Marshall and how would we do without him? Would we draft a WR? Speculate is the best we can do right now. The will tell us a lot in the direction we are headed.

I would say we go after either an OT or DE with the first selection if we’re not going after a CB, S, RB or WR…

by bfree2bronc on Apr 4, 2010 9:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree

And I would support the decision. I find a little less likely than a couple scenario’s though. One reason is because it seems a little early to mark him as a perpetual injury risk to the degree where he can’t be counted on. The other reason is cost vs. risk. At number eleven, it’s a high cost to pay a guard/backup tackle and the risk of Harris needing a permanent replacement is unclear at best. The larger part of that, though, is that you could probably pick up a tackle at #45 that could immediately start at guard and backup at tackle… for far less money.

I see taking a tackle as being an extraordinarily high probability. I just don’t see it as very likely that it will be our best option when our #11 pick rolls around.

Give me impact at center, copmetence at guard and an upgrade at linebacker - sprinkle in strides from having the same system for two years in a row - and I'll show you a contender!

by Alex on Apr 4, 2010 10:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

i must agree ...

Bulaga would never be a wasted talent on our line.

by Whidbey Bronco on Apr 4, 2010 11:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

Spends a lot of time hurt

Did he miss a game his first year as a starter? Last year, to my knowledge, was the first time he’s missed significant time.

Even so, you don’t draft a guy in the first round with the thought that your All Pro right tackle is going to get hurt. A more reasonable scenario would be to select Vlad Ducasse in the second round to play left guard, and if Harris gets hurt, you plug Ducasse in at right tackle, where he has played, and plug Seth Olsen in at left guard. Speaking of Seth, he was a starter at Iowa at the RT position in his collegiate career, so that’s another solution.

No RT in round one…It would be the equivalent, at this point, of taking Jimmy Clausen.

A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.

by Sayre Bedinger on Apr 5, 2010 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions  

I voted Butler

Not only have I heard good things about him, her would also be a value if we could get him, late 2nd ( trade of Marshall add. pick) early third. Then we could fill the OL/DL/WR need earlier in the draft.

by broncos314 on Apr 4, 2010 3:26 PM MDT reply actions  

Why no Weatherspoon?

We brought spoon in for a private workout and we haven’t, yet, brought in McClain for one. He is traditionally considered an OLB but that would be in a 4-3 scheme, in our scheme he would be an ILB. He is more efficient in coverage than McClain but maybe not as much of a thumper. Why i find him interesting is that he could potentially play two different roles for us in his first year, as a coverage option on passing plays at OLB and as a back up ILB.

I don’t think he is quite as good an option as a pure 3-4 ILB, especially in his first year. This is where i see McClain having the edge on him, i find it conceivable that McClain could start at LB taking Davis’s spot, like for like. Maybe the point is that they don’t want a starting LB that is a weakness in coverage, and with the beefing up of the D-Line in free agency it allows them to get slightly quicker at ILB. If Woodyard is beefing up a bit i wouldn’t be too unhappy with him lining up next to DJ, maybe even switching DJ’s role to the one Davis was in last year and having Wood replace DJ, it would mean another position change for DJ but it could be an option. Woodyard can definitely lay the wood in the running game so i would consider him the most versatile of our LBs.

Not sure how i feel about Larsen, i remember him playing really we when he was subbed on for Boss Bailey was it? We are pretty blind when it comes to these issue as the FO won’t show there cards til after the draft so as not to give too much away.

Anyway, good article Doc & TJ.. Makes me want the draft to get here even sooner so that we get some answers to these questions!

Rec’d

by HorseStance on Apr 4, 2010 3:31 PM MDT reply actions  

HS, It's a good point. Could have put him in there, but since he's being projected as a OLB

thought better of it. I agree, given that we brought him in, and I do like his versatility.

It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...

by TJ Johnson on Apr 4, 2010 7:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

Why no Weatherspoon?

Honestly? Exhaustion. There were a few others that I considered, and I ran out of steam. I’m very open to Weatherspoon, but this article was mostly done when he was brought in for his visit. I like him in this role, by the way. He’s a little light, but he’s got a heck of a skillset and he think that he’d be better in coverage than McClain.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 3:34 PM MDT reply actions  

Definitely appreciate the time and effort u put in doc...

It will be interesting to see what direction we go.

If it’s Haggan it probably means Ayer’s has the coaches approval to start, which would say a lot about how they thought he progressed last year.

If Larsen or Woodyard step into the role, that would be great in terms of having a backup developing into a starter.

If it’s a rookie that would be impressive.

by HorseStance on Apr 4, 2010 3:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

I definitely believe he has ILB potential and may be a better fit than McClain.

The only drawback I see is, do we take him with the 11th pick or wait until the 45th when he’ll probably be gone. I don’t think for one minute we will stay with 6 picks and I believe there will be ore razzle dazzle with the picks this year with all of the talent there will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

by bfree2bronc on Apr 4, 2010 9:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

Rec'd!

Though I’m not really comfortable with how much we’ve seen from him at the position on a consistent basis, I have a strong feeling were he to start and maintain the role, he would warm to it superbly – therefore I selected Spencer. Were I in charge, I would be looking to upgrade the O Line in the draft on a higher priority than LB though. Great stuff guys, thanks!

First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot ( =

by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Apr 4, 2010 3:44 PM MDT reply actions  

I agree with your assessments, and I noticed HS already caught Weatherspoon missing from this list

He is currently the only ILB we have brought in for a private visit, which may or may not be significant. There are still a couple of weeks for visits to be arranged, and I’m shocked we haven’t brought in my top inside linebacker prospect, Donald Butler for a visit.

I was unaware Butler was down to 235, which needs to be back up to 245 in order for him to be fully effective in the 3-4. That can easily be changed as you noted with our excellent training staff. Butler has probably been training since January to run fast, so it’s not a surprise he lost weight. He obviously hadn’t lost any upper body strength, benching 225 35 times I believe.

If we go ILB in the draft, which I think we should take at least one, I think Butler, Weatherspoon, and Spikes are my top three options. Spikes’ 40 time was poor due in part to the crappy conditions of the field at UF I read, so he may not be as slow as we think. Like you said, his in game action doesn’t lie. He was projected by our own EJ Ruiz just a month or two ago to be our 11th overall pick.

First priority in this draft is the offensive line. I currently (though my most recent mock doesn’t indicate it) have us penciled in for Maurkice Pouncey and Vlad Ducasse in the first two rounds. I recently mocked us Weatherspoon, but that was before we had Pouncey scheduled for a visit, which I knew would eventually come.

People say Pouncey is a reach at 11. I know it’s hard to project someone as a guy who can start for 15 years, but Pouncey is undoubtedly the best C prospect in this draft or next year’s, and he’s only 20 years old. You want to talk about potential and longevity? He has no serious injury history other than kidney stones, which I know from having seven in my life already are the most painful things in the world, and he is said to have been the leader of the offensive line, making all the calls. If we can trade down and get him as well as an extra pick, stellar. If we take him at 11, stellar.

I like Ducasse in the second round because of his versatility, and from the pictures I’ve seen of him, he is probably 85 percent muscle, and he checks in at 331. The dude is an athletic freak, who has played both tackle positions and has played them well, though he wasn’t dominant. He has a high ceiling, and to get two potential starters along the offensive line with your first two picks? Stellar.

That’s the direction I’m heading right now.

A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.

by Sayre Bedinger on Apr 4, 2010 3:48 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

If we got Pouncey and Ducasse

I sit right down and cry tears of joy. If somehow we traded so that Weatherspoon was added, I’d need IV sedation. Add Gerhart and it’s starting to sound more like a dream than a draft.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 4:13 PM MDT up reply actions   2 recs

Spikes in the 4th...

If Spikes were to really drop to the 4th like I have seen some places project, we would have to jump at that point.

by Pembisito on Apr 4, 2010 4:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

I really like our "short list" of prospects

I have had a lot of fun playing with mock drafts of late. My knowledge is that we are allowed 30 visits prior to the draft, is that correct? If so, we have some more left to use, and we have made an emphasis at a couple of positions, namely C and WR.

At C, we have worked out Pouncey, Tennant, Walton, Joe Haweley, and at WR we have worked out Shipley, Bryant, Benn, D. Williams, Mardy Gilyard, Jacoby Ford, and Dexter McCluster. After that, the emphasis seems to be on CB and RB, which is interesting.

I think the two RB’s we are working out, Gerhart and Hardesty, would both be superb fits for this offense. I know based on highlight tapes that Hardesty has insane receiving abilities, and I think McD sees them as Kevin Faulk types for this offense.

A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.

by Sayre Bedinger on Apr 4, 2010 4:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

2nd Round Prospects...

What is interesting is that a lot of the “short list” prospects are supposedly 2nd round picks. Could this potentially tell us what is going on with Marshall or is McX planning on moving down to gain more 2nd round picks. It will be interesting to see the strategy play out. The only 1st round prospects we have brought in are Weatherspoon and Pouncey and they are projected lower, sometimes much lower, than 11.

by Pembisito on Apr 4, 2010 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

The only thing that worries me with Hardesty is his injury history

I’m very impressed with both players, and I’d love to have them on the squad. There are quite a few good RBs this year – not so much ‘Oh Wow’ as “Very nice, very nice”.

McD will always tend to look at CBs, I suspect. He wrote the manual for the Patriots on CBs and WRs, so it’s something that he feels strongly about. After the OL, many coaches place the next level of emphasis on the CBs. We’ve got two over thirty, and they have to keep an eye on that.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 5:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

That would be great

But then we’d have to listen to the draft ANALysts( think Kiper) tell us that our draft grade is a C- because we didn’t take X or Y etc.

by RichardC on Apr 4, 2010 7:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yes, I can live with that

The Hair doesn’t concern me much – I don’t pay enough attention to him to matter ;-)

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 7:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

I love Spoon....

& would love it if we grabbed him, but I really think the smartest way to go in the 1st round is OL. It really makes a lot of sense to fix that with high caliber players, who can start as soon as possible. Butler seems to be the best option in the draft for our current situation.

by rg2247 on Apr 4, 2010 3:50 PM MDT reply actions  

My favorite sleeper

Who could be had in the third round only cause he was injured in 2009.

Jamar Chaney Mississippi St. 6’1" 242lbs

While this guy isnt a true thumper, he is probably the most underrated potential three down ILB is this draft. The only knock on him is he needed to be stronger to shed blockers, but that can be fixed IMO. He is so good in space and anticipates the plays so well, that his lack of strength may not hurt him much especially playing behind a good 34 linemen that eat up blockers.

Against the run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LMZmeY-kgo
Against the pass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6FErsTC47s&feature=related
Blitzing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSWuUoOzrxs&feature=related

IMO

by Foilhat on Apr 4, 2010 4:06 PM MDT reply actions  

Agreed, Foilhat, Chanay is my favorite too. In fact, I remember when Doc and I were looking

at this piece we talked about Chanay, but I actually said I didn’t think he would a 3-4 guy. I am with you, though, man. I have seen his tapes too and I’m telling you he slides off blocks really really well. I love his speed. And he’s for sure a 3-down guy.

I might be in the minority, but I would love to see this guy a Bronco.

It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...

by TJ Johnson on Apr 4, 2010 7:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

UH HUH!

Your not in a minority here…Well, almost maybe…I’ll take him too, and he would fit inside in my humble opinon, not because someone says he won’t, but because I believe he is athletic and smart enough to translate over…

by bfree2bronc on Apr 4, 2010 10:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

no minority

this guy is the steal right now. I am trying to find out what teams were at the Mississippi St pro day. I only see that Cincy and Oak sent their LB coaches. I think there is some poker going on. You can’t test like that and have tape like that and not be a guaranteed 2nd rder. This guy is gonna start in a 34 or 43 defense, it doesn’t matter.

by BideshiBronco on Apr 4, 2010 11:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

Emmett,

I have thought about Taylor Mays as a 3-4 ILB prospect for some time. Obviously, I’m familiar with all of the concerns about that, such as “he would be too small to shed blocks” etc. I can’t really answer that concern properly.

However, I do know a few things about him that would certainly be worth a second thought. I have watched this guy play for the last several years and he has a linebacker mentality. He loves to hit, he loves to hurt, and he loves to intimidate. I wonder if his lack of size would be negated by his elite athleticism.

There are a few things people don’t realize about Taylor Mays if you didn’t watch him. He is actually a good football player, not just a workout warrior. Carroll played him at running back, had him return punts/kicks, played the role of the CB, jammed the box for 3rd and 1 type situations, but mostly played centerfield.

Obviously his man coverage skills are not elite for a DB prospect, but they would be great for a LB prospect. He would be able to play every down. I have read interviews with Oregon Ducks and Oregon State Beavers players that say they always had to know where Taylor Mays is, they also said being hit by him is unlike being hit by anyone else, etc. Bottom line, they were downright intimidated by him.

The career of Taylor Mays should be viewed over the last four years of tape, not just his senior year. As I have said before, when Taylor Mays was a junior and he played with Cushing, Maualuga, and Matthews, Mays was the best defender on the team. He was always around the ball.

His size should be taken into account, but so should all of this other stuff. Sorry to ramble.

by swg777 on Apr 4, 2010 4:14 PM MDT reply actions  

You know, I live in Carlsbad now

so I saw every game of his this year. By the way, you’re not rambling at all – you make a lot of sense. I’m extremely impressed with his skillset – man, who wouldn’t be? I think that he had two problems his past year, and one wasn’t his fault. That was that the way he was used may not have made full use of his skills. The other was that he was (I thought) trying too hard for the highlight film hit and wasn’t playing the kind of fundamentals that he is capable of.

The idea of using him as a light (weakside) LB has occurred to me. My own though is that we have Barrett, Woodyard and Kelley, each with similar body types. I think that Mays is an upgrade to each of them in certain ways, but given McD’s love of the larger player, do you see him working out that way? I tend to see him as a monster in a 4-3, playing weakside LB. I think that he’d destroy people, but I’m open to hearing a different perspective.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 4:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

SWG, Agreed on the intimidation. That guy loves to get up and intimidate. I love that aspect

of his game.

It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...

by TJ Johnson on Apr 4, 2010 7:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

Eric Norwood

What about Eric Norwood of South Carolina as a rookie inside prospect?

by PABroncofan on Apr 4, 2010 4:16 PM MDT reply actions  

Same answer, sorry

I’m coming back from a nasty spinal procedure that went bad – the anesthesia failed during the thing, so I was wide awake and fully cognizant during 5 spinal injections. It’s taken a while to get over it, and the article was getting longer and longer. I also trust the members to bring up anything that I missed, and TJ was a prince about filling in the players I couldn’t get to. I think a great deal of Norwood.I didn’t go to every site and see how they listed each player – I’ve heard that Norwood has the potential to move inside, and if Denver took him to do so, I’d be perfectly happy. Good call, and thank you!

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 4:33 PM MDT up reply actions  

Wow, get well soon, doc!

I like Norwood, and think he’d be versatile enough to play either inside or out. He’s a solid guy and a leader on the defense. He’s got pretty good pass rush skills, but I don’t know that he’s big enough to play outside in the 3-4 full time.

by BroncosBassist on Apr 4, 2010 7:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

Ouch!!

Derek Anderson is just as much a probowl quarterback as Jay Cutler

by 3nS on Apr 4, 2010 8:01 PM MDT up reply actions  

Holy cow Doc! Sayin some prayers for ya!

That sound like a nightmare scenario, and I truly hope you recover quickly….

"Brandon Marshall will be a happy BRONCO WR in 2010"
Broncotodd - 2009

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams

by Broncotodd on Apr 5, 2010 7:17 AM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks, todd - it's coming along fine

Not fast, but fine. No worries. It does sort of slow down the production stuff, though.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 5, 2010 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

Excelent article, guys. Rec'd.

I started paying attention to Weatherspoon when Digger24 did his mock. He would, IMO, fit with this team. It really makes a difference having a fairly solidified DL to work behind. Given the issues with the OL, however, we may end up picking someone later to develop – and count on an in-house solution for this year. This is probably why Haggan has been mentioned at ILB – he is versatile and can play any LB position. If there were a trade for BM, that may yield another early pick.

Sayre mentioned Pouncey and Ducasse – that would be fantastic. I wouldn’t have a voice left.

Thanks, Emmett and TJ, for your time and energy. Well spent!

by Blackknigh on Apr 4, 2010 4:27 PM MDT reply actions  

Thanks, Bk

Always a pleasure

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 4:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

Speaking of ILB and McLain

I like the Cincy Jungle’s mock draft pick for Denver (which was just posted today). Whether you agree with their pick of McLain, or not, they do a good job breaking down team needs, esp considering they’re not Broncos fans.

There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.

by underdog on Apr 4, 2010 4:35 PM MDT reply actions  

Fantastic, Doc

DJ’s contract is a funny kind of problem. He’s not bad, but he’s overpaid, and a lot. The team can’t cut him to get out from the contract — that would be a huge cap hit, and plus he’s too talented for that. But with him in the line-up, they’ve used up a huge chunk of the cap to get an average-to-slightly-above-average performance at ILB. It’s funny when having an underwhelming player signed at one position prevents the team from upgrading, rather than inducing it to do so.

BTW, I know that I am less of a fan of DJ than others around here. I’ve always seen weird angles and inconsistent performance from him, apart from his rookie year, when he was used effectively in a vanilla-ish scheme. I know some folks around here value him more highly than me, and I would frankly trust their eyes over mine. But I think we all find him to be overpaid relative to his production.

This might have been some of the source of the fixation with David Harris in Marshall trade offers last summer — locking up a guy on a rookie 2nd-round contract would be an excellent way to remedy the pay-performance differential at the position.

I am really starting to hope for Joe Haden at 11.

by Chibronx on Apr 4, 2010 4:59 PM MDT reply actions  

Hey, Chibronx

I agree on DJ. I’ve always believed that if he had been left at weakside and allowed to develop there that he’s be the Pro Bowl player they are paying him as. It’s still possible that he’ll blossom at RILB, for that matter, but he’s being paid as if he already has.One thing that I understand in his favor that he’s become very good regarding play calling and understanding the offensive strategy and how to counter it. If so, he might make some good strides in 2010. If not, a trade is a very real option.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 5:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

I didn’t know that about the signal-calling. It’s a real plus.

While I’ve been disappointed in DJ’s performance, I’ve never really been disappointed about the guy himself. He seems earnest and like he tries hard. Here’s hoping it all works out.

by Chibronx on Apr 5, 2010 6:58 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Great thing about this draft, Chibronx is

if we go Haden, cool
If Berry or Williams falls to us, cool
Iupati or Pouncey, no problem
McClains, okay, I can live with it

It’s hard for us to make a bad choice at 11, I believe. Even better, I think the Giants will try and trade up at 15 to 11 to ensure McClain and we can stockpile

It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...

by TJ Johnson on Apr 4, 2010 7:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

Agreed. I get that theoretically it would be best to trade down into the 20s and grab Pouncey. But since I’m not an economist, I won’t assume the existence of a functioning market just because the situation at hand calls for one. Grab whoever’s best at 11 and I’ll be really, really happy.

by Chibronx on Apr 5, 2010 7:00 AM MDT up reply actions  

Correct if i am wrong..

But didn’t Davis get subbed out on obvious passing plays? So essentially he was just a 2 down LB.

This is where i could see Larsen making an impact, I think he could replace Davis’s role, like for like. Then Wood would come in on passing plays like he did last year as well. That opens up one spot for a backup inside linebacker, it in this scenario the draftee wouldn’t necessary need to start right away.

As for OLB, little is known about Atkins, Reid is definitely upgradable imo (although he does have special teams value) and Jarvis Moss, who no one expects to do anything. So that leaves Doom, Ayers and Haggan (who can back up both inside and outside). Again one spot who would be Dooms backup.

Only carrying 8 LB’s this year could allow us to carry an extra DL which is currently an area where we could get younger, especially considering the developmental period for D-Linemen.

by HorseStance on Apr 4, 2010 5:02 PM MDT reply actions  

I think that you're right. Didn't Woodyard come in on passing downs?

Larsen certainly seems to have the skill to replace Davis on a 2 down basis. Larsen’s zone coverage isn’t bad either, from what I’ve seen. He’s not a man coverage guy, but he’s very tough and has a good nose for the ball. Barrett interests me – I tend to think that he might end up being as good or better than Woody in the big nickel.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 5:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

Great job guys

For the record, I like the value fit of Donald Butler and Micah Johnson. I think we have room for either. By the look of the Draftees that have visited and seeing where Scouts.com has them rated, It appears that McX has a plan A and B contingency for trading back for multiple 2nd-3rd round picks. If they could pick up a solid O Lineman first and Arrellius Benn, I would be happy with one of the two above LB’s and a CB.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Apr 4, 2010 5:47 PM MDT reply actions  

Thanks for all the work, much enjoyed!

OL and ILB are certainly in the top three in terms of need. The question remains – what direction will the McX team go?

What’s the third? Do you gentlemen consider another position of need in the same ballpark as our needs at ILB and OL?

What about Sean Weatherspoon? I’ve still got one leg hoping for McClain at #11, but it’s only my left leg. My stronger leg is standing on Spoon for our linebacker choice later in the round. He can cover a lot better and although his production found a hitch last year, this guy tackles everything that moves, especailly for a guy playing on the outside (which underlines the versatility he would bring to us). He’s a vocal and emotional leader like McClain, but doesn’t come with the mediacl concerns or the coverage issues. He really reminds me of David Harris. Any thoughts?

Great write up and great information on a couple of the lesser known guys. Donald Butler seems to stand above above the rest in my eyes because he’s good enough in each phase. It would seem counter productive to me to let Andra Davis go just to replace him with another situational guy that can’t cover.

As one of you noted above, we could use an ILB and an OLB. I agree. In fact, as I noted somewhere else, I swear without sarcasm, I would be happy if five of our six picks were spent on linebackers and offensive linemen. Even at that, there would be no tough roster cuts.

Give me impact at center, copmetence at guard and an upgrade at linebacker - sprinkle in strides from having the same system for two years in a row - and I'll show you a contender!

by Alex on Apr 4, 2010 6:46 PM MDT reply actions  

Very nice, guys!

As always, you have brought up scenarios that I hadn’t considered. I agree that OL is a very pressing need and ILB needs attention. I think that Larsen just has very good football instincts and that he will always be near the ball… regardless of the overvalued, IMO, 40 times.

Thanks, Em and TJ, for a thoroughly entertaining post! Rec’d for sure!

"Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character." -- Albert Einstein

by hairybear on Apr 4, 2010 6:54 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

Could they move to ILB

Not an expert, but what if you move a DE to ILB.

Both Everson Griffen and Derrick Morgan were RB in high school. They sound like great athletes

"3 and Out Baby" I ride the short bus!

by scottwchicago on Apr 4, 2010 7:07 PM MDT reply actions  

I think nothing is off the table.

To be a great a great ILB (strongside), you have to be able to thump and have the weight and strength to take on fullbacks and guards, so generally these guys are gong to need to be at least 240 lbs, if not bigger. That’s why Haggan is getting consideration…he’s proved he can hold the edge and at 263 lbs, he certainly looks to have enough power.

It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...

by TJ Johnson on Apr 4, 2010 7:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

Doesn't happen often.

In fact, off the top of my head I can recall none having previously gone from DE in college to ILB in the pros.

Spikes may be the closest because he played DE on passing downs for Florida on occasion. But I would say guys who played mostly DE in college like Jason Worilds (not sure where it came from he played OLB?) and that guy from Utah would have difficulty making such a transition.

"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes." -John Wooden

by Randall15 on Apr 6, 2010 4:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

It can be done

Moving to OLB is more common – there are less differences. You’re in a similar situation, you just don’t have your hand on the ground. Learning to set an edge takes some time, too.

But ILB is a very different animal. One of them tends to have the defensive radio helmet; both of them need to be very up on formations and down/distance tendencies and there are the issues of zone and man coverage. It’s nothing that you can’t learn (in theory), but there are a lot of advantages to having some years of practice behind you.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 7:31 PM MDT reply actions  

I voted McClain

but I don’t want his Crohn’s, and I don’t want to spend a pick on him. Hm, that makes no sense. I guess I’d prefer Larsen show us he can do it, or just use Haggan. In the draft, though, I like Butler’s value the best (Spikes slightly less so).

by BroncosBassist on Apr 4, 2010 7:52 PM MDT reply actions  

The Crohns comes with the player

This is too serious to risk an 11th on. Good player, bad problem. Take Pouncy.

by RichardC on Apr 4, 2010 7:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Butler later, if we feel like we need an ILB.

by BroncosBassist on Apr 5, 2010 8:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

This statement is wrong:

There are no crystal balls, and you cannot accurately say that because medication and diet have helped so far, he is unlikely to experience a flareup that could impact his career. That statement is medically inaccurate.

You can assuredly say, that with proper medication and diet it is UNLIKELY for him to have a flareup you cannot however guarantee that he won’t.

It is unlikely for most people to have serious complications as long as they follow a strict diet and use medication… You almost make it sound like it is likely…

the more you practice the luckier you get

by dextermilo on Apr 4, 2010 8:09 PM MDT reply actions  

The Dude is staying out of this one....on account of the not being a medical professional thing

I can tell you I’m just not partial to McClain because he’s probably not a 3-down linebacker when the rubber meets the road.

I’ll let Doc handle the medical segment of this piece.

It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...

by TJ Johnson on Apr 4, 2010 8:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

My only complaint is the semantics

As it seems like the intention concern IS worth mentioning. I did not however like the way that it came across. Very enjoyable read btw, thanks a bunch!

the more you practice the luckier you get

by dextermilo on Apr 4, 2010 8:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

And again....

As it seems the concern IS worth mentioning…

the more you practice the luckier you get

by dextermilo on Apr 4, 2010 8:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

Dex, I'll have to let Doc weigh in on that part. I'm just the Dude. Seriously....

I’m sure he’ll weigh in shortly. I don’t mind McClain and if we get him at 11, I won’t cry about it. I’m partial to Haggan or Larsen myself.

It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...

by TJ Johnson on Apr 4, 2010 8:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

Dex

Where do you get your information? While Docs statement might be a bit strong on one end, yours is equally as strong the other direction. While the experience I have had with my sister having Chrones. Flare ups are usually painful and lasts a week or a month until they cause blockage and an operation is needed.
While I believe he could have a fairly normal career albeit not a long one. To think that there will never be a flare up that causes him to miss games or even curtails his play, no matter how well he manages it, is just as ludicrous as saying that he will never be able to play professional football. (which Doc is not saying)
My point is that there is a middle there somewhere between your statement and doc’s that will prove to be the truth.

Derek Anderson is just as much a probowl quarterback as Jay Cutler

by 3nS on Apr 4, 2010 9:10 PM MDT up reply actions  

By not long

I mean no more than 8 years IMO

Derek Anderson is just as much a probowl quarterback as Jay Cutler

by 3nS on Apr 4, 2010 9:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

A word of clarification

Please see the explanation below to hopefully get some understanding of why I have been so blunt – and will continue to be so. There is a habit of non-professionals who mention personal stories (and forgive me, 3nS, this isn’t meant to attack you personally) that are doing this circumstance a disservice by talking about individuals that someone may know, or know of (such as Garrard or a relative, etc). The mistake that is most commonly made is to know someone who has the disease and to base your theories on that person – this uncle did fine, my sister doesn’t, my aunt had this reaction…..etc, etc.

With compassion for the situation of those individuals, none of that matters. The question is purely individual. And, while there is a chance that McClain will get through without severe problems the simple clinical fact is that the odds are not in his favor. That’s not an opinion – it is a medical fact, and one that has to be dealt with directly.

What we can say with complete accuracy is that cases that are currently controlled with diet and medication can and do have unpredictable major flares that require one of two things – cortico-steroid therapy or surgery. As Ponderosa noted, corticosteroids will weaken certain muscle groups in the body, including the hips. If they have to be taken in large doses over a period of time, they begin to destroy many of the tissues in the body. Surgery, of course, has multiple issues depending on the specific procedure done, etc. The fact that McClain is young and is already having flares that last three and four days does not speak well for his long term odds. That’s unfortunate, but it is important to be as detached as possible when talking about medical issues. That may come across as cold or too blunt to non-professionals, but it’s necessary to communicate the facts of the disease rather than personal stories which do not bear on this situation.

It is substantially more likely that McClain will have increased problem than that he will not. I hope that he beats those odds, but to ignore the fact that they are against him does no one any favors.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 9:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

No Offense

I think we are saying simular things but I have done additional reasearch to understand the disease. I bow to a professional most of the time and I know you know me than me about this.
Dex seems to be taking something he read somewhere as fact. I know that even with a good diet and drugs that there will be flare ups. Would you not agree with me that these flare ups will increase in intensity, frequency, and duration over time and with stress? So to have someone deny that and even make it sound as if you are the one that is way off base, is upsetting to me.

That being said, from what I have learned I can see McClain could possibly get by a year or two without a whole lot of problem. A lot will depend on his tolerence of pain. I do know his career will be shorter than it would be if he didn’t have the pain.

I appreciate the degrading nature of the drugson the body that you brought out . I might ask you does these drugs have a negative effect on the cognitive functions as well?

Derek Anderson is just as much a probowl quarterback as Jay Cutler

by 3nS on Apr 4, 2010 11:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

None taken
Dex seems to be taking something he read somewhere as fact. I know that even with a good diet and drugs that there will be flare ups. Would you not agree with me that these flare ups will increase in intensity, frequency, and duration over time and with stress? So to have someone deny that and even make it sound as if you are the one that is way off base, is upsetting to me.

I fully agree with you. My worry is that in discussng these kinds of things, there have been two big problems – those who aren’t in any way educated or those who base their kniowledge on one case, and those who read somewhere that this isn’t a big deal and believe that, regardless of what they later learn. You don’t fall into eiher category, 3nS. I’ve noted that even when I say, ‘Please don’t take this personally’ (because I’m not talking about you), folks can feel personally attacked. I’m not sure how to say it better – the tendency of some of the folks to know about one case and extrapolate has been a concern. Your situation is clearly different – you obviously also studied the disease, and your info is exactly right. By the way, among the possible side effects of corticosteroids are issues with cognition and loss of emotional balance. In severe cases, you can even see psychotic disorders (I’ve seen such a case close up, and it’s tough to deal with). Those are only possible - other patients don’t experience them.

However, you’re right when you say that part of this will depend in parton his tolerance of pain. It will also depend on his ability to handle stress, and that might include his training in things such as modern biofeedback which might help him to manage both pain and stress (managing the stress would, in turn, reduce the number and severity of flares). There are relatively rare cases where the patient doesn’t have much in the way of flareups, and such patients are extremely fortunate. However, a man at his age who is having 3-4 day flares, as we have found that McClain is, isn’t likely to be in that category. Anything is possible – the odds, however, are far from in his favor, very much as you noted.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 5, 2010 1:39 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Good Observation Doc

I am not a doctor (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night) but I understand Crohn’s affects different people differently, but I have also noticed a correlation between Crohn’s/Ulcerative Coliatis and severe arthritis is some of my friends who suffer from it. It also seems like diet SOMETIME’S helps, but if there is going to be a flare up, nothing will prevent it. It can be absolutely debilitating. The thought of someone playing ILB while dealing with Crohns and arthritis is pretty worrisome.

Thanks for the write up Doc. Always enjoy your work. Do you still accept salmon as payment?

by NormanDale33 on Apr 5, 2010 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

Always!

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 5, 2010 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions  

What I make it sound like is exactly what it is

I have no idea what your qualifications on this are, but mine are simple – both Ponderosa and I are physicians, with a combined 55 years of clinical experience. Since this has come up many times, please forgive me being blunt. This statement is inaccurate:

You can assuredly say, that with proper medication and diet it is UNLIKELY for him to have a flareup you cannot however guarantee that he won’t.

This is one of those things that is going around the net, and it’s flatly wrong. The unpleasant reality is that Crohn’s is extremely capricious. Past experiences with the disease do NOT suggest future experiences. While some patients certainly do maintain well on a regime of medication and diet (and there are other therapies that are increasingly coming into use), you cannot begin to make assumptions as to how this man’s case will do just because he’s had (mostly) good luck in the past. Since the therapies for controlling exacerbations have specific and negative effects on certain muscle groups in the body, an entirely new set of problems can occur when treating a flare. Higher levels of stress – such as those experienced by professional athletes – do increase the likelihood of additional problems. Taken as a whole, both Dr. Clifford and myself agree that the risk is simple too high.

Since I have no doubt that someone will take him in the draft, I wish only the best for him and I hope that he beats the odds. But the fact is that the odds are against him, and for that reason I consider the risk/benefit in this situation to be against his favor.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 4, 2010 9:38 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Couldn't Agree More Doc

Even though my profession is in the physical sciences, I spent 3 years, during my undergraduate years, working in the emergency room of a large hospital in central Illinois. When you see people with Crohns during an acute flare up, you can really feel for them. Many with this disease are restricted physically, and the pain they suffer can be devastating. If Doc says that long term steroids are required for recovery and maintenance, Mr. McClain’s long term prognosis isn’t very good, and with complete support for him, it would be a bad business decision for the broncos to take him at 11 or even later in the draft. I wish him well, but understand the difficulties.

by RichardC on Apr 5, 2010 8:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

Not disagreeing with your analysis

Because I trust that two physicians with 55 years of experience are 55 years more experienced than I, but if this disease is so extreme, how has David Garrard managed a Pro Bowl appearance, a gigantic contract re-structure, and a relatively successful career at this level with the same disease?

Perhaps I missed this discussion on another thread, so forgive me. I know you and Ponderosa could pretty much copy and paste your Crohn’s analysis. Heck, maybe even post it as a wikipedia page from the info you’ve given on this site.

A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.

by Sayre Bedinger on Apr 5, 2010 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

Garrard

Garrard is a single incidence. The reason that you’re hearing so much about him is that he’s the only player we know of right now who has successfuly managed an NFL career with this disease. That should give a lot of folks pause.

Both Ponderosa and I have said this before – there is always a small chance that McClain gets through this without major problems. The issue is that the chances are small and you’re considering paying out a #11 pick to take that bet. I hope for McClains sake that he is that lucky, but I wouldn’t hold my breath – c the odds are too poor.

It all starts with the lines

by Doc Bear on Apr 5, 2010 10:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I still think offensive line needs to take priority anyways, so it’s a moot for me. I wouldn’t mind trading back and taking Weatherspoon, but as per now, I think OL is the way we need to go.

A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.

by Sayre Bedinger on Apr 5, 2010 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

True.

Garrard, even, wasn’t walking through daisies with this disease. He had surgery in the offseason of 2003 to get a foot of intestine removed after he lost 35 pounds. Obviously, he was fortunate that he had it in the offseason and could get treated while missing minimal time on the field. He has been able to overcome losing 35 pounds and a foot of intestine.

So, even though Garrard was lucky and was able to come back from the complications that the crohn’s caused, he wasn’t able to fully manage it with his day to day treatment.

Even the David Garrard example isn’t an ideal argument for those saying that McClain won’t have complications. Garrard DID have complications and he was very lucky that his complication in 2003 didn’t cause more damage than it did.

I’m with you Doc. I think we need to stay away from him in the draft.

If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6

by Troy Hufford on Apr 5, 2010 10:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

A couple thoughts

Here’s an article with some stats backing up what Em is saying, for example:

[T]he proportion of patients who develop penetrating or stricturing disease steadily rises over time, and the cumulative probability of surgical resection rises such that, by 20 years of disease, approximately 80 percent of patients with Crohn’s disease will require at least one surgical resection

On the other hand, here’s a list of some notable people with the disease, including a number of professional athletes (including NFL players) and Olympians who have managed the disease and had long, successful careers.

by asdqqq on Apr 5, 2010 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

I guess we'll find out what the teams docs think

I hope he turns out well, hopefully for our team, but it is risky either way.

My emptiness says it doesn't care.

by Topher Doll on Apr 5, 2010 12:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

Guess

We’ll let the team doctors decide.

My emptiness says it doesn't care.

by Topher Doll on Apr 5, 2010 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

I agree with everything Em has said.

I think we’ve exhausted the subject from a physician’s point of view. I tend to agree with Colinski who believes ILB is not a top priority in the first round unless they can bring pass coverage skills to the table. Aside from the medical concerns, a OLB with pressure capabilities makes more sense.

Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein

by Ponderosa on Apr 5, 2010 11:43 AM MDT up reply actions  

Quality post

Great read. Thanks for an excellent perspective on filling an important needs.

"Peace, a journey without distance to a place we have never left."

by BroncoCUbuffs on Apr 4, 2010 8:22 PM MDT reply actions  

Errr, drop the word intention and that makes sense.

the more you practice the luckier you get

by dextermilo on Apr 4, 2010 8:29 PM MDT reply actions  

great work, thx

I like Chaney the most. I have hope for Misi and Washington. I am glad to read some on Worilds. I didn’t know anything about him. it’ll be interesting

by BideshiBronco on Apr 4, 2010 11:41 PM MDT reply actions  

Thanks guys!

I’m still pretty high on Spoon, but I also realize that OL is absolutely our biggest need.

This year’s draft will most certainly be entertaining!

"Brandon Marshall will be a happy BRONCO WR in 2010"
Broncotodd - 2009

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams

by Broncotodd on Apr 5, 2010 7:26 AM MDT reply actions  

I voted McClain

I understand the risks of Chron’s and I understand that his career could suddenly be cut short by it. But I’m for taking that risk. In a serious contact sport, all players carry a risk of a career threatenting injury. Kevin Everett and John Mobley to name just two. This just adds another level of risk to that. I don’t know how NFL contracts work but is it possible to add a clause about pre-exisiting conditions – eg. If we have to cut you due to medical reasons because of Chron’s we get x amount of money back.

I understand what the Docs are saying about Chron’s (my dad has it and I have a higher than average chance of getting it at some point) but I’m willing to take that risk with the 11th pick. I can also understand that other people aren’t willing to take that risk.

by mikebirty on Apr 5, 2010 1:28 PM MDT reply actions  

I have a few things to say

1. I do not want McClain. No Way. Unless a doctor comes out and says “Hey Chrons isn’t gong to effect him in any way shape or form”. Other then that he can go to someone else. 2. I like Butler a lot. If we could pick him up in the 3rd then I would be ecstatic. 3. I think we are going to be interested in Micah Johnson. He is going to be available late. Not only is he talented, but he has Denver connections. He is close with Wesley Woodyard. Micah has an injury ridden past, and his workouts leading up to the draft haven’t been the best. However, when he is his best he is a monster. When he is finally healthy, he is going to be a stud. I think we need to keep our eye on him.

I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything - John Elway
October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder

by Nick Cast on Apr 5, 2010 1:51 PM MDT reply actions  

4.

This was a GREAT read. Thanks for all the information. Good stuff Doc and TJ

I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything - John Elway
October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder

by Nick Cast on Apr 5, 2010 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hey, that'd be nuts!

We’d have their entire LB core! Woodyard, Johnson, and Braxton Kelley…I wonder if we have a thing for UK LB’s!

A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.

by Sayre Bedinger on Apr 5, 2010 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

Excellent article

I havent finished reading it but from what i have read it is a great analysis.

I am a huge Woodyard supporter so i want to see him get more reps. Maybe not starter but definitely should be the #1 guy to come in for extended periods.

Go Broncos!

by dbroncos78087 on Apr 6, 2010 1:41 PM MDT reply actions  

Rec for again bringing the high bar of excellence

Great analysis Doc,

Unlike most of the folks that responded to your poll, I’d prefer to see Larsen be given a shot as a starting ILB, after all, he’s played well when I’ve seen him play, and he’s had a year to learn the system. I’m in agreement with the issues McClain faces, and I’m very rarely in favor of putting a rookie on the field in his first season.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Apr 7, 2010 3:29 PM MDT reply actions  

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