A Coach's 'Fair Shake' To Implement His Program
by Tim Lynch on May 1, 2010 8:22 AM MDT
in 2010 Denver Broncos Offseason
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When an organzation like the Denver Broncos decides it is time for a new head coach, the decision is not made lightly. Unlike NFL parriah's, such as the Oakland Raiders, Pat Bowlen makes the decision with the belief that the new coach will need several years to implement their program.
However, the hostility and criticism that Josh McDaniels has had to endure during his first two offseasons perplexes me. I asked myself, is McDaniels doing anything different than any other new head coach in the NFL? Perhaps. How about Mike Shanahan? How much change did Shanahan bring to the Broncos in his first few years as Head Coach?
In pursuit of an answer, I decided to compare McDaniels and Shanahan's first couple of years as head coach of the Denver Broncos. To see, for myself, how much change in the roster really occurred.
Mike Shanahan
After firing Dan Reeves, Bowlen wanted to bring Shanahan in as Head Coach, but was turned down. He settled for Wade Phillips and waited patiently for Shanahan to change his mind. Shanny did change his mind after leading one of the most prolific offenses in NFL history to a Super Bowl Title in 1994.
He took over a team that had finished 8-8, losing their final three games in the process(sound familiar?).
Shanny's first order of business was to install a new blocking scheme. Only one tackle and one guard survived his first offseason. Yes, 1 at each position. Shanny then brought in six new offensive lineman and began to implement his Zone blocking scheme.
Next, Shanny desired to transition the Broncos defense from a 3-4 to a 4-3. Instead of taking a single offseason to make the switch, it took a full two offseasons to make the full switch.
In the end, only six defensive players survived the switch. In total, just fourteen players from the 1994 roster were playing for the Broncos at the start of the 1997 season. Those players were, John Elway, Tom Nalen, Ray Crockett, Randy Hilliard, Harald Hasselbach, Brian Habib, Jason Elam, Tom Rouen, Allen Aldridge, Keith Burns, Steve Atwater, Gary Zimmerman, Dewayne Carswell, and Shannon Sharpe.
Not a single wide receiver or running back made it through the transition to the Super Bowl team of 1997. And Mike Shanahan became The Mastermind.
Yet all he did was implement his program, by bringing in players that fit what he wanted to do and by running the system he felt was necessary to win Championships.
The result? A three year stretch where the Broncos went 39-9 in the regular season and 7-1 in the playoffs - with two Super Bowl Championships.
Josh McDaniels
What does this mean for Josh McDaniels and the current Denver Broncos?
Mike Shanahan was fired after compiling a 24-24 record over the course of three seasons, culminating in a three game collapse with three games to go needing just one victory to secure a playoff berth.
Pat Bowlen went out in search of a special human being. One with the drive and intelligence to implement a winning program. Very few men fit that bill, but there is no denying that Josh McDaniels has the drive and intelligence to do just that.
There is a question about whether he will be successful, as only time will tell. After inheriting the team, he set about to implement his program. However, he would be faced with a me-first culture in the locker room that would marr his first offseason.
Instead of having a quarterback who wanted nothing more than to win a Super Bowl(John Elway circa 1995), McDaniels was faced with a talented young quarterback that wanted to be paid more than he wanted to win.
McD was hammered for the trade, by both the media and a large segement of the fanbase. Though he got excellent value in return, the criticism remained with him throughout his first season.
So, what about turnover?
Josh McDaniels first set about to make a defensive switch from a 3-4 hybrid disaster that was run by Bob Slowik the year before, to a base 5-2 3-4 hybrid that would get after the quarterback.
Which means he had to replace nearly the entire defense. Who could blame him? The defense was a complete disaster. McD kept just one safety and two corners, it's no wonder he drafted three last year to go along with three other free agent signings.
Next he had to clean house at the linebacker position. Goner were guys like Boss Bailey, Louis Green, Niko Koutouvides, Nate Webster, and Jaime Winborn.
Meanwhile, McD desired to move to a power run game. He stated the transition would be a multi-year approach. The first phase was to blow up the backfield. Only Peyton Hillis survived the bloodbath, but even he ended up getting traded anyway. McD got rid of Tatum Bell, Cory Boyd, Andre Hall, P.J. Pope, Michael Pittman, Ryan Torain, and Selvin Young in the process.
All in all, only twenty-four players remained on the roster after McD's first offseason. Of course there is Jay Cutler and that fiasco, but that situation is what it was - we and the Broncos have moved on.
Midway through McD's second offseason, we have already seen another blood letting of former Shanny guys. Bringing the pre-draft total to just seventeen players left from the 2008 roster. They include, Champ Bailey, Elvis Dumervil, Jarvis Moss, Marcus Thomas, Chris Kuper, Matt Prater, Mario Haggan, D.J. Williams, Wesley Woodyard, Spencer Larsen, Josh Barrett, Ryan Clady, Ryan Harris, Tyler Polumbus, Daniel Graham, Eddie Royal, and Brandon Stokely.
Mike Shanahan ended with just fourteen by the end of his third offseason, so I expect McD's program to be fully implemented by the end of the next offseason. He has cleaned house and now we will finally start to see the fruits of his labor.
Shanny finished his first season as head coach with an 8-8 record, which he then followed up with a 13-3 record. So far McD has finished with the 8-8 record, now it is time to see the next step in his program. I don't expect a 13-3 record, but I do expect a Division Title and the first playoff berth for the Broncos in five long, arduous years.
If there is one thing that should be understood by the fans, it is that Josh McDaniels earned his way into the Denver Broncos Head Coaching job. His hard work and dedication to winning was/is evident even during the 2-8 collapse last season. therefore, I am going to continue giving him his fair shake to make our team into a winner once again.
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Nice comparisson Tim,
I had forgotten how many people Shanny got rid of……It really does take about three years for a new system to really take effect. If you were to look at teams with news coaches who had early success, I think you’ll find there was really little change in the overall system used by that team.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
For Better or Worse
I think that many of McDaniel’s critics got fuel because of how Josh handled some of his pressers. Publicly questioning Marshall’s toughness was shady for some fans. Also, his confidence comes across as brash for some viewers. I think a big part of that is his age.
I really like what he’s doing, both on and off the field. And I’ll do my part to ensure he get’s a fair shake. I just hope that Bowlen gives him a fair shake too.
nice post.
I like it. a lot.
Even from the outside, this man is not planning on failure. At all.
Lets go! All Ready!
Mike Shanahan already had a history with the Broncos
Mike was QB coach for many years and already had a proven track-record with Bronco fans. Wade did not do great with the Broncos before Shanahan arrived so the transition was not “hey you just kicked a great coach to the curb”.
Mike was the QB coach and then OC for the Broncos before getting his first SB ring with SF. Mike, for all of his faults as a GM, was a excellent coach and brought 2 Back to Back SB victories and helped get the monkey off of John Elway and Denver’s backs (something besides the history of SB blowout losses).
I equate the Shanahan to McD switch similar to the QBs that have attempted to replace Elway. McD will always be in the shadow of Mike until he wins a SB. I thinks that McD is a good coach and will eventually get us there. My hope is that Josh will turn the corner on getting to the playoffs sooner rather than later (if nothing else is will calm the DP bloggers for about 3 seconds before negative comments start flowing again).
Tim, nice writeup by the way.
Victor Frankl:
What man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him. What he needs is not the discharge of tension at any cost, but the call of a potential meaning waiting to be fulfilled by him.
Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.
by wyoeng on May 1, 2010 8:55 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Good point on Shanahan following Phillips.
It doesn’t matter what profession you’re in, if you follow a legend you’re going to have a tough time of it.
“Well that’s not the way Bob did it!” – everyone has their own methods for getting a job done. Evaluation should be made on the final product, not the steps it took to get there.
“He just doesn’t get along with people as well as Bob did!” – that’s because Bob had years to get to know them, and develop a rapport. People became familiar with his manner and idiosyncrasies.
“Bob was so much better at…..” – everyone brings different strengths to a job, and we tend to forget the shortcomings of the person who left.
Bob takes Extenze and he is the life of the party...
by bfree2bronc on May 1, 2010 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
He's laughing long
and steppin’ large.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on May 1, 2010 1:14 PM MDT up reply actions
The fans weren't prepared for the firing of Shanahan
Absolutely, Shanahan benefited from the fans and the press being unhappy with Wade. The fan based wanted someone better. As pointed out above, Shanahan already was known and well thought of in Denver.
On the other hand, Shanahan’s firing was a shock. Pat B did nothing to hint that it was coming. Pat also didn’t explain why he made the decision. That left the fans feeling like their opinions didn’t matter. And, Shanahan was a good coach. So, losing a good coach, without warning upset people.
Then comes McD, that no one ever heard of, and he had no HC experience. Why should anyone expect him to be a better HC than Shanahan? Add the fact that he came from an “enemy”, the Patriots.
This set McD up as the guy wearing the black hat. Once tagged as brash and cocky, a simple narrative became “reality”. Until he puts better teams on the field than Mike S, he’s going to wear the black hat. The harsh treatment of McD has nothing to do with him putting in his system. Pat B didn’t do a good job with the transition, and because McD replaced a SB winning coach, McD is automatically a bad guy. Then add in his young age and determination to do it his way, with his players and coaches, and people get upset.
by MichaelCushman on May 1, 2010 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree completely.
I have never heard or thought about the point that Bowlen could have handled the transition better. That’s interesting.
I embrace change. I always have. If it gets blown up in the name of improvement, I’m all for it. I’d rather erase and start from scratch than put makeup on a pig.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
by HarvJNep2n on May 1, 2010 12:31 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
The fans weren't prepared for the firing of Shanahan
Absolutely, Shanahan benefited from the fans and the press being unhappy with Wade. The fan based wanted someone better. As pointed out above, Shanahan already was known and well thought of in Denver.
On the other hand, Shanahan’s firing was a shock. Pat B did nothing to hint that it was coming. Pat also didn’t explain why he made the decision. That left the fans feeling like their opinions didn’t matter. And, Shanahan was a good coach. So, losing a good coach, without warning upset people.
Then comes McD, that no one ever heard of, and he had no HC experience. Why should anyone expect him to be a better HC than Shanahan? Add the fact that he came from an “enemy”, the Patriots.
This set McD up as the guy wearing the black hat. Once tagged as brash and cocky, a simple narrative became “reality”. Until he puts better teams on the field than Mike S, he’s going to wear the black hat. The harsh treatment of McD has nothing to do with him putting in his system. Pat B didn’t do a good job with the transition, and because McD replaced a SB winning coach, McD is automatically a bad guy. Then add in his young age and determination to do it his way, with his players and coaches, and people get upset.
by MichaelCushman on May 1, 2010 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions
mulligan
Also, shannahan is rarely held responsible for his first head coaching job with the raiders, simply because he worked for Al Davis. Those years were learning experiences as well. I think McD deserves extra leniency, brash as he is, for being a new head coach. 4 years, mimimum. Otherwise the fans in Denver will watch him win titles somewhere else. Mcdaniels was faced with turning the page
Peace Begins with me,
Dave
by kawikadave on May 1, 2010 9:04 AM MDT via mobile reply actions 10 recs
Sad
It’s this type of comment that shows that fans are leading with there hearts and not with there heads. The comparison in the OP has some truth in it. But the key to it is the fact that Shanny went 13-3 the second year. Will McD do that? That’s the critical question. I do not think that he has to go 13-3 to keep going. But he has to make a winning team. This is his team now, not Shannahan’s team. The staff, the players, are all McD’s. There are no excuses left on the table. Four years is just unrealistic.
So long as he continues to show improvement he gets to buy some time. But if Denver goes 8-8 again you can put a fork in him, he’s done. Maybe he will go win championships somewhere else. Life is tough all over.
by Tuttifrutti on May 1, 2010 11:34 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Brian Habib? Allen Aldridge?
Wow, that’s a stroll down memory lane! : )
Nice write-up and the point is well articulated. Bowlen didn’t hire McD to keep Shanny’s vaunted offense in place and simply fix the D. Nothing less than a complete adoption of the New England system was the mandate, and no one fit the bill better than McDaniels (except maybe BB himself). Pat clearly liked Josh’s youth, energy, enthusiasm, smarts, and toughness — the traits he had once admired in Shanny.
Shanahan’s implementation of the zone blocking scheme, the 4-3, and the west coast offense were shifts in team consciousness, shifts in team culture, shifts in team chemistry, and shifts in the expectations of the fan base. When you blow stuff up, you are given the opportunity to reset fundamental cornerstones of your franchise, to lay new foundations. This is stuff that can’t be done by merely fixing the old paradigm — if that’s what Bowlen had wanted, to merely rejuvenate the team he had, firing Shanahan would have been illogical.
I voted three years NOT because I’d fire Josh after three if he has yet to win a championship, but because by then we should see clear progress, a clear trajectory. And I’m with you, Tim, in believing that it all starts with winning your division. If a team is not engineered well enough to do that, it simply needs better leadership. But getting traction from so many moving parts borne of a new philosophy, that takes a few years.
Woody’s mailbag this week put my feelings in pretty sharp relief. With Josh, and with Tim Tebow, we’re on the cusp of another big adventure. When I think back over the years of highs and lows that was the career of John Elway, and the thrill of finally overcoming all the odds and winning those championships, there’s no way I’d rather do it than boldly, adventurously, with a little nervousness in my stomach and a little ballast in my head. Those are the greatest victories — the ones that put everything on the line in the face of the harshest adversity. In Denver, with our history, we should know a thing or two about that.
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on May 1, 2010 9:07 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
One point Montana
Elway took 3 seasons to be the Elway people want to remember. Tebow(I’m an agnostic on him) is going to take at least 2 years to really show what he is going to be. That isn’t going to be quick enough for the people who think 3 minute eggs take too long. Everytime KO throws an interception or THE TEAM loses a game, we’re going to hear the “Tebow needs to start now!”, stuff. Do you remember the way Steve DeBerg was treated during the ‘83 season. Every mistake was flamed in the newspapers and radio call in shows. Poor KO will have to endure the same. Regardless, the instant gradification crowd won’t be satisfied, and it doesn’t matter what McD does, it will be the wrong thing.
by RichardC on May 1, 2010 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
I tend to be a little more bullish on Tebow's prospects in the near term
although I’m willing to admit it’s mostly because I love the kind of player he is. However, I think there is a valid point to be made that Tebow should start when he’s ready, not before, not after. Unless you believe that Kyle is the future or that he is capable of taking us to the promised land (which I personally do not discount), starting him ahead of a properly prepared and ready Tebow is a disservice to the team. KO is a great guy and I want to see him rock it this season, but I do feel he should be The Guy only as long as his arc supercedes Tebow. I knew next to nothing about Tebow a few weeks ago, but what I’ve learned in a short time is enough to convince me KO’s days are numbered unless he wins the division for us this year — possibly earlier. McDaniels will make the right call for his system, though, I’m confident.
But to your point, Elway took three seasons to show us miracles, but even he slogged through some forgettable seasons after the 9ers loss. It took an undaunted, masterful head coach to surround him with the right tools and the right system. Do we have those elements in place with Tebow and Josh? We don’t know right now. But we didn’t really know back then either.
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on May 1, 2010 10:55 AM MDT up reply actions
Also, weren't there a couple times
during the Elway era that fans were getting very impatient with him, and had decided he wasn’t capable of winning a Superbowl for Denver? Didn’t fans at one time want Elway traded to Miami for Dan Marino, and other time it was trade him to Dallas for Troy Aikman? These were times when Marino and Aikman were also slumping and everyone had decided a trade would be good for both teams. Maybe I’m wrong about that, but I don’t think so.
No, you're right
There was a very vocal element of the fan base (esp. after the Jacksonville loss) that thought he “couldn’t ever win the big one” and wanted him gone.
Good thing Bowlen didn’t bow to pressure from those loudmouths, eh? I’ll bet no one will, at this point, ever admit they were in that camp.
by AllBroncsallday on May 2, 2010 7:52 AM MDT up reply actions
There was also a segment
that thought he was over the hill, and actually clamored for Tommy Maddox to take his job. Insanity.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
Yeah, Turnover Tommy instead of Elway. BRILLIANT!!
by AllBroncsallday on May 3, 2010 9:32 AM MDT up reply actions
But
you can’t say that “poor KO will have to endure the same”
Not if we’re wiinnnniiiiiing! ( ;
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on May 1, 2010 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions
One point Montana
Elway took 3 seasons to be the Elway people want to remember. Tebow(I’m an agnostic on him) is going to take at least 2 years to really show what he is going to be. That isn’t going to be quick enough for the people who think 3 minute eggs take too long. Everytime KO throws an interception or THE TEAM loses a game, we’re going to hear the “Tebow needs to start now!”, stuff. Do you remember the way Steve DeBerg was treated during the ‘83 season. Every mistake was flamed in the newspapers and radio call in shows. Poor KO will have to endure the same. Regardless, the instant gradification crowd won’t be satisfied, and it doesn’t matter what McD does, it will be the wrong thing.
by RichardC on May 1, 2010 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Cool
I got to rec a good comment twice! LoL ( ;
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on May 1, 2010 1:18 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree. this whole story line with all of the drama and critics will make this really special for us when we win again and McD does it his way (which is really now our way – fat least for us supporters).
good comment, broncosmontana. rec’d
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. - Benjamin Franklin
by Orange and Blue on May 1, 2010 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions
Let the Adventure Continue
When I think back over the years of highs and lows that was the career of John Elway, and the thrill of finally overcoming all the odds and winning those championships, there’s no way I’d rather do it than boldly, adventurously, with a little nervousness in my stomach and a little ballast in my head. Those are the greatest victories — the ones that put everything on the line in the face of the harshest adversity.
Everyone says they are all for change…Until they have to live through it!!
But the thrill of living life to the fullest is embracing the process of change and staying out of “the comfort zone” of mediocrity.
I am more excited now by the Future for the Broncos then I have been in many years.
McDaniels has a passion and a vision for the success of the Broncos that is contagious.
Tebow Time has Started.
I love what TT brings to this franchise. Is he the solution to the question? Only time will tell — but “Buckle up Boys and Girls” it is going to be wild ride.
To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also DREAM; not only plan, but also BELIEVE.
right there with you bh
especially your comments in bold. Acquiring TT has put McDaniels’ plan in sharp focus for us, in a way I don’t think many of us would have predicted last year. and I’m ready to live or die by it!
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on May 1, 2010 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Me too! I leaning towards 'live' if I have a choice... lol
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 1, 2010 11:50 AM MDT up reply actions
Nice job Tim....McD will be a GREAT coach....he looks at the game differently, and thinks outside the box....
Some people at MHR get that, most dont and try and judge him based on their opinions of a TIRED and SLOW MOVING NFL.
The NFL has not changed much in the last 10-20 years. Coaches are still using the same schemes, have the same attitude and use the same coaching methods. They bring back schemes like the 3-4 front, throw some new paint on it and call it revolutionary.
I was discussing this with Doc Smith yesterday, and here was a comment I said to him:
“…….It takes a young man with conviction AND confidence to get SO panned yet stay strong to a direction.
……..McD thinks outside the box…the problem with the NFL is that it is VERY staid in its schemes and patterns. You RARELY see new co-ordinators or coaches …they are retreads from college or other teams.
There is not much progression of scheme or coaching going on in the league.
I have a feeling McD will turn this on its head.”
We all need to at least let McD have his turn. He is trying to implement NEW schemes and ideas the NFL has not seen….and people need to sit back and see the BIG picture and not be brought down by their pre-conceived ideas of what NFL football is about.
Just my 2 cents.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
by boydy2669 on May 1, 2010 9:18 AM MDT reply actions 7 recs
The 24/7/365 media doesn't help matters either.
It used to be assumed that 3-4 years was a fair shake for a new coach….that is still the case today, but many are unwilling to be patient.
I firmly believe Mr. B will give Josh his fair chance….and I think that some heads (of the talking variety) will be turned once HIS system starts to thrive!
Mitch Berger for the Hall of Fame....at least I hope so after this year.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
Great piece tim
I didn’t realize how much turnover there was when shanny came back. It’s great that you take a look back here to put the present in a little bit of perspective.
Am I getting old or wasn’t rod smith drafted by Phillips and carried over to shannys squad?
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on May 1, 2010 9:49 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
Rod Smith was signed
by Wade. Rod was undrafted, of course…..
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
Thanks
Drafted? Greatest undrafted WR ever. Ok maybe I am getting old to write that he was drafted. :)
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on May 1, 2010 12:34 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Hahahahahahh
I wasn’t gonna say anything….. ;)
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
feel free to say what's obvious
Or you could say “Drafted? Drafted? You’re talking about Drafted?!?!?” in your best Mora “playoffs” impression. :)
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on May 2, 2010 9:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Well said tim
The NFL is entertainment and we are going to get our money’s worth. I am more than on board. Go McD
by highplainsdrift'r on May 1, 2010 9:51 AM MDT reply actions
Great work
Putting things in perspective. BShrout did a great article about rookie head coaches, just wanted to toss the link out:
http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/3/18/1378887/a-little-coaching-perspective
And here are two other pretty good articles:
http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/3/18/1379577/rising-and-falling-of-the-coach
http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/3/8/1363157/deserving-dynasties
In the poll for Deserving Dynasties, 78% said they should get 3-4 seasons, interesting that the numbers are almost the same.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Thanks Tim
Excellent post. Great job in putting all this in perspective, and reminding us all as fans to not take ourselves and our opinions too seriously. I think many had either forgotten, or weren’t aware that yes, Shanahan too cleaned house in much the same manner that McD has, and changed things that were considered to be untouchable (the 3-4). Let the man do the job he was hired to do.
I voted 3 years, but like broncosmontana, want to see what the trajectory looks like. So far, I like it.
by AllBroncsallday on May 1, 2010 10:23 AM MDT reply actions
Great post
I would have liked to see 4 years as a choice though on the poll for consistent playoff and Superbowl contender status.
Thats saying that we should see some additional consistency this year in 2010 and clear progress by 2011.
Pretty much my goal for the Broncos ever year is to be competitive and to be playing meaningful games in the last two games of the season. Even it we got there in 2009, the collapse and the 2:8 finish after the 6:0 mirage of a start was disheartening to say the least.
What I like most of McD is his obvious steady progress in fixing obvious problem areas (need bigger defensive front 3 via free agency) need big tall WRs (via draft) need bigger versatile OL (via draft) depth at ILB (FA)….that will produce immediate results and consistency, and an ability to move toward the future and take some risk for large rewards, Brady Quinn Tim Tebow.
Steady progress with an addition of some high reward potentials things (at a cost of a 2nd round pick for TT and a min veteran salary for Brady Quinn) seems to be a pretty good balance.
Plus you have a priority of smart versatile team first players that can do a lot of things and provide a lot of injury depth in a violent sport and spread your salary cap over a lot of bodies makes a lot of sense as well.
As long as I see progress and start to see competitive teams week to week, I like it a lot.
Well we certainly were competitive through the first 6 games last year LOL and superior depth and body mass on the DL and OL is going to get us a real chance at some more consistency.
I also just like the fact that better depth and mass in the trenches just make everyone playing behind them on both the offensive and defensive sides better as you have a better chance of dictating things instead of just reacting to your opponent.
So better battles in the trenches make the rest of the team better as well.
I thought we were competitive
most of the year. The first 4 game losing streak was close, a lot of those were VERY competitive. The second four game losing streak was….different. When we lost that SD game, something in this team snapped. It was an uncompetitive blowout, riddled with self doubt. THey clawed their way to two ugly wins against KC and NYG, but that second losing streak reeked of a team that had gone to the mat and couldn’t…or wouldn’t…get back up.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on May 1, 2010 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions
unfortunately once Tebow gets in we're looking at another two or three years before we can expect much... So these next two years of coaches contract need to be filled with building a team around whoever our QB is.... If McD wants an extension.
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 1, 2010 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions
Have the Broncos done enough?
You indicated you expect a division title and a playoff berth this season….I sure hope you are right, but there are a few things in the way…notably San Diego who has tweaked their roster, but is coming off a pretty good season, and though perhaps getting older, still has a high quality (if ornery) quarterback,a fleet of big strong receivers and (they hope) an energized running game…in fact, I have heard San Diego as a preseason candidate to finally get over the playoff hump and contend for the title.
In addtion, there are signs in tRaider-land that they intend to mix in a few sound decisions to go along with the goofy ones…they might win closer to half their games this year…sad to say it, but there are some good athletes in the mix and as they say, even a blind squirrel….
Finally, KC seems to have had a reasonable postseason, and may not be the doormat they have been of late…
What I am getting at is that our division may be a little more challenging,
So…with division games perhaps a bit tougher, and the reigning top dog still well assembled, I look to the Broncos to see how they have countered….
At QB, assuming Orton is the starter, we have a smart dedicated player who lacks mobility and may have to do without an important offensive lineman for some part of the season. We have infused the OL with youth, but it may take a game or two (or maybe a season) to find their way in the NFL…last season, Orton was given a pass basically since he was new to the “McD” system…won’t that also apply to all the new blood (rookies and free agents) that have joined the team in the last 4 months…we have shipped out the malcontent WR who nevertheless was the favorite target of Orton…our running game is largely dependent on that same offensive line….
Defensively, we have replaced the defensive coordinator, and some of our high skill players have added a year, which in the case of Dawkins, Bailey, etc might not be what they need….We have strengthened ourselves through free agency, we hope, but it takes a while for a defense to gel, and it seems with all the new blood and new coordinator, we are sort of starting from scratch.
So…as a Bronco fan. I want to believe…I want that 6-0 start to look like the truer measure of the team than the 2-8 finish…and I surely want them to leapfrog the Chargers…but just saying “13-3 until they ain’t” does not make it so….in fact, I see this team struggling to improve on 8-8 and so 9-7 would be cause for celebration and 10-6 woud be euphoria…but are we really close to that? Shanahan, when he took over had one piece of the puzzle that the current Broncos do not have (at least not apparently)…and that is a hall of fame QB playing at the top of his game. John Elway took the Broncos to at least a couple of Super Bowls where he was pretty much a one man team in a sport where such things are almost unthinkable….I think if McDaniels had that type of resource then I agree his turnaround could rival Shanahan’s….but…
I have admittedly run hot and cold on Orton…but when his lack of mobility was exposed by his deteriorating OL, it made me wary of putting too much faith in his strengths….there is optimism that he will have had a full year in the system, and now apparently he will be playing not only for his “payday” contract. but quite likely trying out for his next team… do you think his improved play will be enough to elevate this squad? Orton has a lot of really strong supporters on MHR (though perhaps a few less, since many of whom have been drawn to the Tebow mistique)…but to some degree, this affection is because as Bronco fans we all tend to want to love our QB, and as long as it is Orton, there will be love, and when it is Tebow, he will be deified, and if it was Quinn, he would be loved as well…but the hard facts are until one of them truly plays the QB positon in the top 10% by league standards, I am not sure I can see the Broncos at the top of the AFC West…and of course, in writing this I hope I am wrong…
What if you don't know Jack....but Jack knows you?
by Hugo Norton on May 1, 2010 10:43 AM MDT reply actions 7 recs
rec'd
Seems pretty unlikely we pass up the Chargers this year but it’s surely possible and will be fun to watch.
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 1, 2010 11:13 AM MDT up reply actions
Norv Turner has put off the inevitable too long…his failure. I think this is the year the Chargers implode. Their D will be weak and their offense will become and issue. His late game screw ups time-management screw ups will also show up more. I say Chargers go 8-8 or 7-9 this yr and Norv gets fired. I can hope.
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. - Benjamin Franklin
by Orange and Blue on May 1, 2010 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Norvs Oline is also aging
That and the fact that they are better pass blockers won’t help Ryan Mathews as much as some MSM types think. I believe theay are a 10-6 team this year, unless there are some major injuries.
No way
People say our schedule is soft, look at the Chargers, there is no way they sink that fast, that far. They are still an elite team, and have done better with less. I’m no fan of the Chargers, but they have a lot of good players. Turner may get fired, but not for a poor record, see Schottenhimer, Marty. To say the Chargers are a screw up organization is like saying the Pats run an ok team, or that cause the Colts only have Manning they will suck next season. I love bashing stupid mistakes the Chargers make, but that’s not to often.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Um, what does that have to do
With my comment? The Chargers didn’t change QB’s.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
One or two guys can make a big difference.
But that Broncos team lost Elway and TD after the 4th game. I feel sick to my stomach even saying this, but as long as the Chargers have Rivers, Gates, V. Jackson, I don’t see them imploding completely.
I do agree with you, that they will not have a cakewalk in the West. However, I think Hugo’s point is well-stated. When even the Raiders appear to be making legitimate improvements….well, I think the West is rising as a whole again….
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
I can't seem to complete a thought lately...
My point in saying that team lost Elway and TD was that I think losing the GOAT QB and a (should be in the) HOF RB, who just happens to be the greatest offensive weapon in the game at that point, is much more than typically losing ‘one or two guys.’
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
The Chargers will be lucky....they will lose Jackson for 4 games but there first 4 games are cake..
Jags, Chiefs, Seahawks and Cardinals…..you cant get any luckier and should be 4-0 with out Jackson!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Forgot he should be getting suspended.
You’re right though…they should win all those games without him. Of course, if they keep up their recent pattern, they might lose 2 or 3 of those regardless….
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
AFC west twice... NFC west? Cushy.
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 1, 2010 4:40 PM MDT up reply actions
They didn't lose
Any of their main contributors, and their offense is still very, very good, not sure your point, they still have Rivers.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
yep, the Chargers are pretty damn good. I hope they have their ususal poor start!
did you look up the Marty spelling? lol that’s why he’s last name 1st?
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 1, 2010 12:11 PM MDT up reply actions
With you 100%
I see some potential huge morale issues as well with that team. Not that that’s the main reason I think they’ll fail, but another part of it (Us sweeping ’em this year will have a bigger part to do with it, heh heh heh). I had visions of sweeping the division last year, and after Week 6, it almost seemed they could come to fruition.
Can’t wait until it does happen.
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on May 1, 2010 1:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Which can't you wait for
The huge letdown or the false expectations?
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
You excel at optimism I can see.
It seems from here on out, we’ll always have to wait until the end of the season to know if any team sweeps their division.
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on May 1, 2010 10:27 PM MDT up reply actions
Haha
No I look forward to this next season, just the way you phrased you comment, sorry, but I am afraid of false expectations, fans are easily lead to high hopes.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
I am certainly one at times
Especially when I’ve imbibed a bit too much Fat Tire. Which can happen on Game day, from time to time.
Hope for the best but be prepared for the worst – seems to fit better than;
Expect the worst, because then all the surprises are good ones.
Either one is totally logical, but it seems my brain opts for the former instinctually. Regarding football anyway…. Other things it’s much better to expect the worst and never be let down, but I get it either way.
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on May 1, 2010 11:11 PM MDT up reply actions
A challenging division
may be just what the doctor ordered. Remember, even the weak teams aren’t pushovers in the NFL, and our division rivalries actually seem to give the advantage to the underdog more often than not.
I would love to see the fans and media taking our division games a lot more seriously, outside of the Den-SD game, and I think that energy would translate directly to the teams on the field.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on May 1, 2010 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions
Right.
Recall the Broncs-chiefs rivalries of the 90’s. KC were no pushovers in the 90’s.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Regardless of how much the raiders and chiefs improve,
don’t forget we still split all our division games last season. We will improve, too. As for the chargers, they are anointed the team to “Get over the hump,” every year. They have been proclaimed pre-season champions for the last 4 years, at least. McGeorge’s sig says it best: “pre-season champs, post-season chumps.” The Broncos, in their last year of a lame-duck regime, and the first year of a tough transition after an abysmally conflicted offseason, managed to hand sd the division. Had the Broncos played up to scratch in either of those closers, sd misses the playoffs for the past 2 years.
We have the chargers in the last regular season game AGAIN this year. Time to put this tradition of losing the end of the season to bed forever.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
by HarvJNep2n on May 1, 2010 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
hell yes on that last line!
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 1, 2010 4:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Unfortunately
we here at MHR are in the minority when it comes to the coaching situation. If the results don’t improve this year there will be tremendous external pressure on Bowlen to rethink his decision. Not saying if we fail this year McD will be fired but there will be calls for his head and Bowlen will have to stay true and continue the path without popular support from the masses. What’s required is a complete mental shift by a large part of the fanbase.
Any smart fan would settle for ANOTHER 8-8 so long as some positions become solidified with youth and 'the arrow points up'
Bowlen will give McD a fair chance, you can trust to that.
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 1, 2010 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions
"If the results don't improve there will be tremendous external pressure on Bowlen to rethink his decision"
I think we already have that situation and to those people I say say get on board and enjoy the ride!
The QB position is set. Oops....maybe not!!
by broncofaninIL on May 1, 2010 1:37 PM MDT up reply actions
MCD and Mr Pat are pretty much immune to hype
As long as Broncos sell seats and are competitive I doubt the owner feels any great pressure.
Tebow's Jersey Sales
Are the envy of EVERY team.
I think thats enough to keep Bowlen happy for a few seasons.
/jokes
Why does Madden suck at ranking the Broncos so much?
Well said......well said.
Things take time and you just can’t change a team so-so to awesome in one season. I know it is a “win right now” type of league. However I want a “be consistant contenders yearly” team if you ask me. The media doesn’t see it and I personally don’t care either.
Look at the bright side, we aren’t a 2-14 rebuilding team.
Floyd Little: HOF Class of 2010.
2009 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
I am behind him!
Look, Shanny had been mediocre for ten years after the two Super Bowls. Josh comes in and decides to do things his way. I don’t have a problem with it. Shanny’s way was headed nowhere, good luck Washington as your team is one of the oldest in football now. I like the moves he has made and I love this last draft. So I say stand behind him . I don’t get all the criticism but it all has to do with him being a hated New England guy. I say give him two more years to see what he can do with this team!
I agree
you’re the first one to mention it but him being a NE guy has a lot to do with the hatred towards him.
Well said
These things take time, and it is a more difficult job than the majority of us can possibly imagine. McD is making great strides, clearly has a plan and is working to implement it at every opportunity.
I strongly believe he will be a success – and it is because of what I see, and not just my gut.
That feeling in my gut is just the enchiladas I had last night.
Got Tebow?
Counterpoint
Tim, I respect your opinion, but totally disagree with your conclusion. Although I do not have enough time to write a full-blown analysis, I will write enough to get me into trouble with those who hold a countering view.
When Josh McDaniels got here, the part which was primarily broken in Denver was the defense. Had he merely corrected what was broken there, I think the Broncs could have gone very far into the playoffs last Fall. For an example of how to do it correctly, at least in the short run, compare Mike Smith in Atlanta and John Harbaugh in Baltimore. They went after what was broke and did well.
One controversy you can check up to and blame Cutler, if you want, but not constant turmoil and the complete drop-off at the end of last season. I think throwing the offensive line under the bus was a mistake as was the way he handled the last game. I know that others differ.
The good part now is that this is Josh McDaniels’ team from now forward. Responsibility and blame fall squarely on his shoulders from now on. This is another transition year, and next year will be the real test. I voted with the 3 year try-out.
No one would have given Mike Shanahan 3 more years to right the ship. Denver fans were spoiled, people forgot that you have to retool things, and Shanahan was reduced to desperate tinkering to placate at least the fans, if not the ownership.
Everyone is now happy, McDaniels has his players in Denver, Shanahan is in Washington, Cutler is in Chicago, Marshall in Miami, HIllis in Cleveland and Sheffler in Detroit. Let’s see how things play out.
In fact, let the games begin!
by Baltimore Bronco on May 1, 2010 11:15 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Except Brandon Marshall was one evening temper tantrum and police contact away from a multi game suspension and maybe even season ending one.
so you're saying you agree with the rest?
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 1, 2010 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions
Had he merely corrected what was broken there, I think the Broncs could have gone very far into the playoffs last Fall.
Perhaps, but McDaniels wasn’t hired to run Shanahan’s system. He was hired to run NE’s system. Since he apparently gave Pat a full presentation illustrating what his plans were, it’s hard to fault anyone but Bowlen for pulling the trigger on that process. It’s simply what the guy was hired to do.
I give him credit for trying to hold onto the zone blocking scheme to the extent he did, but we may have been better served getting these big OLers last season instead. (He probably would have been lionized for it if he hadn’t tried it, though).
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on May 1, 2010 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions
The offense was broken as well.
They could move the ball between the twenties, and some players (Cutler and Marshall mostly) put up pretty impressive personal stats, but the offense couldn’t get in the end zone. How is that not broken?
by CompUser on May 1, 2010 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
It irritates me when people forget that. Cutler had a lot of those issues in Chicago as well in interceptions and unforced errors on the goal line or not protecting a lead by throwing an risky throw that was not needed.
Moving between the 20s is one thing, red zone conversions and winning games is another thing no matter what the stats are.
by Kosty on May 1, 2010 12:11 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Nonsense. The offense WAS NOT broken... 7 freaking running backs (& poor defensive support!) were broken.
Plus it was very, VERY young and growing!
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 1, 2010 12:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Well stated BB
for me the most obvious difference between the Shannahan early years and the McDaniels era thus far is impusiveness. Coach Shannahan was always very calculating. McD seems impulsive. I cite the shedding of Mike Leach. This was change for change’s sake. He is a god locker room guy and meets all of McD’s criteria for being versitile, smart, and tough. The same thing can be said of the zone blocking scheme/players. To me the shift to gap blocking mid year with players designed for zone was an impussive error. That being said, I really like most of the decisions McD has made and I feel this conversation will be moot as we will all be in Mke Clark land by 2011.
GO BRONCOS!!!
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
by firstfan on May 1, 2010 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I see things exactly the opposite.
Shanny during the end was quite impulsive, while McD appears, to me, to be very calculated.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
by Tim Lynch on May 1, 2010 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I TOTALLY agree...nothing impulsive about McD at all.....hes hard to get a handle on but EVERYTHING is planned!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
They are both VERY calculated. Shanny didn't know when to go back to the drawing board but he had a plan always.
I was very impressed when i heard McX talking about how we got just the guys we wanted… Gives me hope when a guy sticks to his plan when EVERYBODY else thinks he’s wrong.
…The brilliant ideas of the masses rarely pan out.
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 1, 2010 5:05 PM MDT up reply actions
Agree- Jarvis Moss was a perfect example
by AllBroncsallday on May 2, 2010 8:13 AM MDT up reply actions
Travis Henry
Simeon Rice, Sam Adams, the 3-4 in midseason, the Cutler/Plummer fiasco….I love Shanny, but I think Tim is right on this…Shanny always seemed to be chasing the home run toward the end…
BTW Tim, GREAT write-up! Meant to say it yesterday, but it just dawned on me again that I never said it. Look at the discussions you sparked! HIGHLY Rec’d!
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
Thanks man!
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
Yep. While he sure gave a lot of Bowlen’s money to 9×9, at least he didn’t trade up (over the objections of everyone else on the staff, as I understand the story goes) to grab any of those chumps. And man, that mid-season experiment with the 3-4…. aye yai yai yai yai. Really?!?
Moss to me will always represent Shanahan’s ill-advised tendency to fall into looooove with certain players to the point where he wouldn’t listen to other opinions.
by AllBroncsallday on May 3, 2010 9:44 AM MDT up reply actions
I find McD to be quite calculated
I can’t comment on Shanny because I don’t know enough about those days.
Oh, btw
excellent, excellent post Zappa. Thanks.
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
thanks buddy
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
BB...if you dont think the offense was broken you are drinking too much peyote...
We were a fantasy football offense…not an NFL scoring offense. After week 3 we were the 4th WORST scoring offense in the NFL.
I am SICK of hearing we had a good offense. That just does not stand up to investigation…..our offense SUCKED……
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
by boydy2669 on May 1, 2010 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
due to injury, youth and a poor-ass defense!
NOT due to poor schemes or problem players!
OK …I have eaten peyote a I will quit this old argument now…
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 1, 2010 5:13 PM MDT up reply actions
Amen!
A double AMEN to that.
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
I think that one “shake” is fair….more than that and you’re just playing with yourself.
"All we're trying to do is win a mf'ing game!!!"
by PosterNutbag on May 1, 2010 11:20 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
Someone will have that as their new sig.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
I voted 3 years...We should have significant improvement in team and wins by then...
I did very same research Tim and wasgoing to do a post on it and thought I might get blasted by the Shanny faithful…Heh! Better you than me and besides when I get mad I blow up and don’t write reasonably…
so after we win the SB this year
how many extra years does that give McD?
"Have you ever heard of the emancipation proclamation?"
- "I don't listen to hip-hop"
I will predict that McDaniels is in Denver longer than Cutler is in Chicago.
I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.
-- Duffy Daugherty
by discgolfin' on May 1, 2010 12:41 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
I agree golfin'
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
No argument here golfin
The QB position is set. Oops....maybe not!!
by broncofaninIL on May 1, 2010 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions
We're all supposed to be friends here.
So please no politics unless it’s Bronco politics.
I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.
-- Duffy Daugherty
by discgolfin' on May 1, 2010 12:55 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Tim
We’re gonna have to put you in the penalty box! You mentioned the hat-less one, N.W!
=) Nice article.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
Say...
who does your memory wipes?
I went to Rekall, but I keeps seeing an empty, rolling helmet. Everywhere…
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on May 1, 2010 10:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Great post Zappa!
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
"He took over a team that had finished 8-8"
Actually, he took over a team that had finished 7-9, and in 1995, his first season, they finished 8-8. Then over the next three seasons they went 39-9 and won two Super Bowls. McDaniels, too, went 8-8 his first year. Hope he follows the same pattern.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
No way our team is 13-3 this year.....all I am looking for is for the rookies to step up and start taking key roles in this team and I will be stoked....8-8 to 10-6 will make me happy!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
And the 3 years after that
He went 25-23 and only made the playoffs once, losing in the wild card.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Shanahan?
Did his team not beat the almighty Patriots in a home playoff game? Only to lose to the (&^!*&! Steelers at home in the AFC Championship?
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
I am not a fan
I don’t particularly like what McDaniels is doing. He seems like a guy who thinks he’s the smartest guy in the NFL, and I’ve seen that destroy rosters before. Still, any coach should get 3 years, to get his staff and roster together, and install his system.
What dont you like man?
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
A lot of the roster moves
Just seems odd that you get rid of 2 all-pro’s in 2 consecutive years, you draft a lot of players considered projects high. I live in Detroit, I’ve seen how filling a team with projects looks, and it’s not pretty. I mean, maybe it all works out, and it very well could, I just think its a huge risk to trade established, young talent for unestablished young talent, especially when that talent in and of itself has a higher risk associated with it than most.
Hey man...get the concerns...
But Cutler and Marshall were not ALL PRO, they were pro Bowl players which is not even comparable.
We are nowhere in the Lions model…we have some very established players and some good talent….what we are missing is depth…
We had injuries last year and had no depth, and on defense, our rotation was shallow, so we got worn ddown badly as our rookies were not ready to play.
I think we are sitting in a pretty good place….by 2012 season we should be right in the hunt!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
cutler and marshall
IMO are unestablished talent… cutler especially while marshall is an undeniable beast he is also an undeniable goof ball sometimes
"Have you ever heard of the emancipation proclamation?"
- "I don't listen to hip-hop"
I have to disagree.
I WANT a coach who thinks he is the smartest hombre in the NFL. If he doesn’t think that, why would we want him?
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
Because most people who think that
can’t back it up.
The good news is...
…we have a coach that couldn’t care less what the media and fan base think about his ‘window’, and an owner who figures to be patient enough to let McD’s plan play out. I think its pretty amusing when people suggest that some force (fans or media) other than Pat Bowlen are going to run McD out of town. Last I heard, Denver still has a double-digit year waiting list for tickets, and the TV contract doesn’t give a rat’s hiney if Denver goes 0-16 the next three years. I’m confident that if Bowlen was just looking to tweak the Denver Broncos, he would have hired 4-3 guru(s) Spagnuolo or Frazier, Jay Cutler would still be leading the league in blowout losses by ‘franchise’ QB’s, and all the venom presently directed at McD would be spent on the current local tragic hero who now toils in Chicago. In otherwords, the same angry people are always ranting, it just depends on who the fashionable target is.
Bowlen didn’t hire a guy to simply extend the Shanahan era. He wanted a new vision, direction and philosophy. And even if the MSM can’t grasp that, I’m sure Bowlen can. It takes time. For better or worse, people ought to get use to J McD for at least another 4 years, which would be plenty fine with me.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on May 1, 2010 2:22 PM MDT reply actions 4 recs
That's the very thing that chaps so many people's backsides who don't like Coach McDaniels.
They do not control McDaniels employment. They can’t stand the fact that he is going to be here for at least 4 more years because there is nothing that they can do about it. I love it and all they will do is cry about what they can’t change.
Wauh, Wauh Wauh, lets call them a Wauhmbulence.
I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.
-- Duffy Daugherty
Crybaby Redux
Posts like this really advance the dialog, don’t they?
by Baltimore Bronco on May 1, 2010 4:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Just wanted to see who would "respond" first.
I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.
-- Duffy Daugherty
Why?
Why call people names and play games like this? Do you want a bunch of people here who agree with you? This isn’t a cable news channel, it’s supposed to be a discussion board. You don’t want to drive people away, you want constructive discussion.
People can differ with your opinion without being crybabies.
by Baltimore Bronco on May 1, 2010 4:59 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Then why take the bait
You don’t have to respond to every post you disagree with- I ignore lots of ’em.
by AllBroncsallday on May 2, 2010 8:22 AM MDT up reply actions
"I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to."
We should all take this advice to heart.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
Philip K. Dick
Amen
The older I get, the less I like to argue. Does that mean I’m getting boring?? ;)
by AllBroncsallday on May 2, 2010 9:40 AM MDT up reply actions
Yes
And isn’t it a lot more fun being boring? ; )
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on May 2, 2010 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions
I think so…but maybe I’m too old to remember what real fun is. :D Hell I sure hope not.
by AllBroncsallday on May 3, 2010 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions
Agreed
Part of what I love about MHR is how competing viewpoints are usually discussed in a grown-up fashion. I think it would be very boring to never have a point of view challenged, and to never be exposed to a differing point of view.
Isn’t that the point of having polls attached to some of the articles? Because there are likely to be differing opinions?
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
It's all on me.
For not making my original point clear in the first place. I was referring to the 90 percent of posters on the D.P. site who cannot write Josh McDaniels name without turning it into an insult. It is my fault for reading those posts and was just after reading some of them when I came back to this site and vented some steam, albeit misplaced. I won’t do it on the D.P. site because it would just lead to more insults about the Bronco’s brain trust. I guess in the future I will just have to stick to MHR for my Bronco fix. Once again I apologize if I insulted or offended anyone here especially .
I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.
-- Duffy Daugherty
The one thing I absolutely love about McD
is that he knows what kind of players to bring in. He brings in players who want to win and be a part of a team. He isn’t going to bring in guys who are only money-driven. He is going to bring in guys who are going to give their heart on every play of every game. Those are the kinds of guys that win championships. A team with a bunch of guys who genuinely love the game and give their all will have a better chance of winning then a bunch of guys who are apart of the team as long as they have their pockets filled.
Look at the kind of guys he has brought in: Dawkins, Hill, Goodman, Orton, Knowshon, Ayers, Tebow, etc. The list goes on and on. All of these guys are fun, hard working guys who all love being part of a good team. None of these guys has a “me before the team” attitude.
Look at the kind of guys he has gotten rid of: Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall etc. These guys may be the most skilled players on the field, but they put themselves before the team. They are team breakers.
I am buying into McD’s plan. He is bringing in the right kind of players. He is bringing in high character guys, but those same high character guys are winners and are very skilled. Look at the past 2 drafts!
Knowshon- best runner of the 2009 draft. Hard worker. High character.
Ayers- predicted to be the best 3-4 linebacker of the 2009 draft. Hard worker. High character.
Alphonso Smith- best ball hawk cornerback in the 2009 draft. Hard worker. High character.
Demayrius Thomas- Receiver with arguably the most potential in the 2010 draft. Hard worker. High character.
Tim Tebow- One of the best college quarterbacks ever. Hard worker. High character.
The list goes on and on. McDaniels has a plan with all of these guys. These guys are adding their skills to the team. We are getting very good players with very good attitudes. It is only a matter of time before all these hard working, skilled players get to their ultimate goal: The Super Bowl.
I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything - John Elway
October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
We Will See at Contract Time
Of course players coming in will sound the trumpet of being team players.
However, this is the pros, and we are not in a socialist economy, so players will seek to get the highest pay for their services.
The proof as to how this all goes down will be how these guys behave and are treated at contract time. Just another reason why three years is a good time frame for judging the progress of a coach and his regime.
by Baltimore Bronco on May 1, 2010 4:05 PM MDT up reply actions
By your exacting standards....
That would have been four times under Shanahan’s tenure and he wouldn’t have made the third cut.
I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.
-- Duffy Daugherty
What?
Again, why the sarcasm? Most of the voters here, me included, picked 3 years for a good tenure by which to judge a coach.
I agree that Shanahan made many mistakes during his tenure here.
So has McDaniels in his short tenure here.
To err is human.
by Baltimore Bronco on May 1, 2010 5:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Nice post Zappa
One other point worth mentioning is that Shanny took over in a period in which not all teams had figured out how to use free agency. More good players hit the market, and the opportunity to quickly infuse the team with a lot of talent was very real. By 2009, you had to step very carefully. You just can’t turn a team around that fast these days.
All of these things make Bowlen’s patience a real advantage. The Broncos are patient, and thus don’t play the same game as other teams.
Also: has any mediocre offense ever been as lionized as the 2008 Broncos’? I honestly think the answer is no. Nobody would have shrieked about breaking up the 2006 Jaguars’ O. Nobody. But have a guy who gets 100 catches (against 5 touchdowns) and ooh-la-la. What a team!
by Chibronx on May 1, 2010 2:23 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
I think this is a good point
Despite our results, I think the stability/patience that Bowlen provided is positive on balance. The coaching turnstile in Washington or St. Louis didn’t promote great results either. You could even argue that Shanahan’s staff instability after Kubiak left – or frankly post Super-Bowl on the D – contributed to our mixed results.
It does seem evident that McD has a strategy how to build a team in this day and age, which (as Chibronx said) is very different than in the mid-90’s. Not surprising, since the Pats are the most successfully “built” team in the last decade. I fully expect McDaniels to get his time, and expect the results to be good!
Nice write up, Tim
I voted 3 years. Give the man a chance to prove himself!
2 years
I believe the first year of a head coaching tenure is pretty much a mulligan unless you take over a super bowl level team like the Colts. You can get rid of the players you want to get rid off and build the core of your team. The 2nd year is when you have to show that what you are doing is working, you have to show that the team is improved over year 1.
I see that Shanahan’s records were not mentioned, he took the Broncos to the playoffs with a 13-3 record in his 2nd year, if Mcdaniels can do something similar then he is the real deal.
Mcdaniels has to show that his principles work now, he will survive another 8-8 year but if the team tanks he should be fired. Anything more than 9-7 should yield an extension.
nice post tim
agree 100 perent g love look i am sorry if i seem a basher of tebow McD i worry a lot about denver what i mean is we all want to win i dont understand why the media assues we will be 4-12 what do they think we will lay down no disrespet to any of our opp but other than INDY @ BALT and SD2 times and myebe HOU who our relly tough games i think 7-9 is our worst-case serio i do think we have a shot at 11-5 if we can go 7-1 at home and spit our road games
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider
Three years of rebuilding
is what I thought we needed before McD was even hired. The team lacked chemistry, depth and physicality across the board and it was going to take more than one offseason to move it in the right direction.
Regardless of how Tebow performs I like what we did with the draft this year – depth and size for the OLine and players who are known for blocking. It’s a follow-through on drafting Moreno last year. A commitment to running the ball will help protect the defense as well.
A Bronco fan in San Diego - where history begins in 2004.
by BroncFanInChargerLand on May 3, 2010 10:22 PM MDT reply actions
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