Trade Orton? Here's Why I Believe It's Ridiculous
by the new Bradfather on May 10, 2010 4:04 PM MDT
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Kyle Orton has always been overlooked.
For whatever reason, a signal-caller who was given all the props in the world at Purdue and was a legitimate Heisman candidate, was overshadowed as soon as he entered the NFL.
Perhaps it was because he was drafted by the Bears in 2005, a team notoriously known for shoddy quarterback play whose fans glorify their linebackers more than their signal-callers, and had zero talent around him at receiver, that this ignominy struck him.
Nevertheless, a 2009 season where he tossed 21 touchdowns against just 12 interceptions and almost amassed 4,000 passing yards, showed that he could excel when playing in an offense that's quarterback-friendly.
My post is not anti-Chicago Bear in any way, but let me say this much: the system that they've brought Mike Martz in to rejuvenate, is still anything but quarterback-friendly. Once Jay Cutler was stripped of the likes of Brandon Marshall and even Mike Shanahan, he retained his interception total, but saw his touchdown numbers plummet precipitiously.
While the Broncos, who drafted marvelously in April, will contend for a division title, Chicago is in serious danger of being eclipsed by Detroit in the NFC North. That is not a shot at the Lions, who have done quite well for themselves these past couple of months, but rather an assessment of how far Chicago will probably fall.
The Bears now realize that Orton wasn't the problem, as he excelled in greener pastures. Perhaps now, more than ever, blame must rest on the heads of Jerry Angelo and Lovie Smith for not giving Orton enough weapons to excel while in the Windy City.
As for Orton's future here, I see it as the en vogue thing to trade him and see what can be gleaned in return. Even Pro Football Talk's Gregg Rosenthal deems this to be foolish, as evidenced in his column this morning and was partially the impetus for my post today.
Orton will give you all he has to give every week and while Tebow should be the impetus of a bright future in Denver, let's not be presumptuous and shut ourselves out of a magnificent present.
Yes, this team is good enough to go on a playoff run with Orton at the helm and yes, Tebow will be great one day, but that day is not today. If Tebow is as studious and willing to improve as everyone believes he is, he will benefit greatly from watching a proficient, albeit "unsexy" Orton at the reins.
As always, feel free to share your opinions on my post and I express apologies to Broncos draft pick J.D. Walton for screwing his name up in a previous post, as well as to the great Emmett Smith for integrating religious paraphernalia in this aforementioned post.
Thanks again for having me, MHR Brethren (and Broncos Priestess!)
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Nice Post
Orton may start the season as #1 but he will not finish under center. 2 reasons…. Always gets hurt and he is average at best. I dont know how many times I yelled at my TV last year when someone got close to him and he fell down. Seriously!!! He doesnt extend plays which is what we need. Tebow will be starting by the end of the year. Mark my words!!!
Yes, but
This debate seems to turn on what people think of Orton. I carefully re-watched all the 2009 games. What I seen from Orton didn’t convince me that he was better than very average. His fans should go back and watch the games from last year. They should take note of the issues his immobility caused, how many passes were off line and required a extraordinary effort from the receiver for a completion.
I watched them . . .
I saw two different Ortons: one playing with injury, and one without.
Playing without injury, Orton stacked up several 100+ QBR games and had a perfect winning record. Playing with injury, he still did well, although not quite as well . . . but what would you expect? If Orton is “average” (whatever that is) playing with injury – which means he is being compared to QBs who are playing without injury, then I would say that is outstanding on his part.
I don’t know why so many people seem to think Orton should have been HOF material while playing with high ankle sprains and a compound dislocation of his index finger on his throwing hand. Probably because they have never been on the field . . .
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BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
He shouldn't have been playing at all...
But McD had no choice than to play him, since Simms was terrible, and they obviously lacked faith in Brandstater.
Hopefully, our backup situation will be much improved this year. Though if Tebow gets the nod for #2 and steps in because of (another) Orton injury, I doubt he’ll relinquish the job.
In every season where Orton has been injured
He has been rushed into play too early. As in Chicago and now here, he hasn’t had the time to ever fully recover, but due to poor back-up play, he is forced onto the field, which can lengthen recovery time.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
100% agree man......
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
poke that bear!..poke it! - -
shocking amount of support for Orton’s play around here. You and I see the same things.
I don’t even think he needs to be traded. I’m just not convinced he can keep his starter status.
When people on this website bring up Ortons numbers
They dont take into account that he took a ridiculous amount of pass attempts, ones that bloated his yards. With that many passes thrown, he shouldve had at least 25-30 TDs. And he threw 11 INTS down the stretch in 9 final games.
He is nothing more than a stop gap QB, and if u havent seen the writing on the wall (bringing in 2 QBs) than u r delusional. Ortons not bad, but I think McD’s vision will require something better than an average-above average QB, depending on the amount of koolaid u drink
thats makes absolutely no sense . What is a non ridiculous amount then ? Im sure its the number by whoever is not named Kyle Orton
Maybe you check the attempts of all the Qbs with at least 3000 yards what would be acceptable in a haters eyes ? He threw 6 picks in two games in that 9 game stretch again another slanted stat as he still ended up with TWELVE TOTAL.
by Hoopforia on May 10, 2010 9:16 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Imporvement
Is what I see when I look at Orton’s number. Steady improvement year after year. While Cutler showed skills early in his career, he just keep getting worse. 11 Int in 9 games for Orton?!? Cutler had 26 in 16 games!!! and 63 Ints in 53 games over is career. That is a similar average as Orton worse 9 games streak.
Give Orton a chance. He is a winner (win-loss of 29-18 vs Cutler’s 24-29) and he gives us a steady offence. If our defence stops the run this year (an area where we made many changes, let’s hope they pay off), Orton will take us to the playoff.
PS: I’m not a Cutler-hater, just a “I wish Cutler was still here”-fan-hater…We got the best deal hands down in that trade!
by macklure on May 11, 2010 8:33 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
While I like the moves the team made this offseason
Realistically I dont think this is a team set to go on a playoff run. I have no problem saying in 2-3 years this team could be dangerous, however at this point I dont think its this year. That being said I would love to be wrong.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
A little mentioned reason to keep Orton
Once Orton signs his tender he will be on one of the most reasonable contracts a potential starting QB will play under next year, so the cost to keep him for the season is attractive. If injuries happen to Quinn and/or Tebow, I’d rather have Orton under center than the Bradster…
But THE reason why we should keep Orton is that his value as a free agent likely exceeds his trade value today. When he leaves as a free agent (assuming the new CBA contains compensatory picks similar to the current CBA), he should net us a 4th or even a 3rd round pick. Thought these picks can’t be traded and are at the end of the round, they provide flexibility, something that can free up our regular pick for wheeling and dealing. If Orton is worth a first or second, and McD is confident that Quinn has picked up the offense and can actually win in the NFL, or Tebow is superhuman and can start out of the gate without damaging his confidence, then pull the trigger. But Orton leaving as a free agent might net us a higher pick than a trade would today.
Food for thought….
by icewest on May 10, 2010 7:56 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
good point
defintely food for thought.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Food for thought
Excellent point. I am sure McD and co. know this as well. Or at least are hoping for it.
Proud Colorado native.
Bronco fan since 1973..
Future father of 2 NFL stars.
by timmaybronco on May 10, 2010 8:48 PM MDT up reply actions
great perspective
rec’d
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on May 11, 2010 7:17 AM MDT up reply actions
Research would serve you well
Cutler’s TD numbers didn’t drop drastically – they increased. He had 25 his last season in Denver, and 27 his first season in Chicago – 6 better than Orton’s career high of 21 that he set last season. For all the bluster about his interceptions (and yes, he threw a lot of them) Cutler arguably had a more productive season than Orton, and FAR surpassed anything Orton ever managed in Chicago.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
come on!
Orton is far superior to Cutler. Cutler played great only after the team was eliminated from the playoffs. He was the reason the Bears didn’t make the playoffs. Turnovers are everything in the NFL. Cutler is on par with Grossman in the redzone. TERRIBLE!
Ridiculous assessment
The only people who would use a statement like “Orton is far superior to Cutler” are the Orton homers here on MHR. If he was superior, he would be legitimately wanted by a team – any team. Chicago threw him in as an afterthought, and the Broncos are doing everything they can to find an upgrade. The guy is an average NFL talent with average skills.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
I agree with you here.
I knew this would happen a year ago and it did.
The same excuses that were not good enough for Cutler and Shanny after going 8-8 in 2008 and falling apart at the end of the season are the same or similar excuses that are suddenly sensible after Orton and McD lead us to 8-8 with another epic late season melt down at the end of 2009.
While I think Orton is underrated by the MSM (and Cutler is overrated), Orton is vastly overrated by several at MHR. There are several MHR folks that think he already is or is very near an elite NFL QB. It’s absurd. Drinking Kool-aid gives you cavities, but smoking orange crack is bad for one’s health and brain function.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
dont you mean after several years they led us to 8-8 . You have this way of stretching the most obvious facts right out of the discussion
To compare Shanny and Cutler in there 3rd year together to Orton Josh and Orton in there first is absurd . To suggest that we are making excuses after one year is absurd as we shouldnt have to defend anyone’s tenure after there first year of taking over a team that was not a playoff team before they took it over .
Its amazing that common sense is now bashed as kool aid drinkers and supporting the team is seen as being bad for your health.
by Hoopforia on May 11, 2010 8:19 AM MDT up reply actions 7 recs
^^^ THIS ^^^
I just wonder why this perspective is not brought up more, or even acknowledged. Ever.
Ha HA – brilliant Hoop, thank you.
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on May 11, 2010 1:43 PM MDT up reply actions
There are tons of excuses for why 2009 ended the way it did. And a lot of them sound like the ones we heard in 2008 (lack of talent and depth, hard schedule, jerks on the team, bad coaching, etc).
The 2006 to 2008 Broncos were 24-24. Not good, not bad, but very average. Same with the 2009 team. I have no earthly idea why one gets a pass and the other gets a #### storm.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
In Regard To This
McGeorge, I must agree with you deep-down. Orton is not an elite signal-caller, but he is a really good one. He is not a complainer, and Cutler really pissed me off under the table the more and more I saw his true colors unfold. That’s that . I’ve got to go.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on May 11, 2010 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions
You didn’t have to reach deep down. You know Orton is not nor will be an elite QB in the NFL. He’s got a great attitude, but not you, nor I want him as Denver’s long term QB.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
Absolutely
If Orton wins for us, great, but let’s do the best we can. If that’s Timmy Tebow, so be it.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on May 12, 2010 12:13 AM MDT up reply actions
Improv 88
should remember that statistics, in and of themselves, are worthless. If Cutler fails to make teams he’s on better, then he can have all the gaudy stats he wants, but it’s not worth a hill of beans
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on May 10, 2010 11:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Nice double standard
It’s funny how Orton can have middle of the pack stats, have several people refer to him as having a great season (which it wasn’t), and it was the defense and the running game that failed him and are the reason for the losses. Meanwhile, Cutler accounts for more TDs, has even less of a running game behind him and an equally porous defense, and yet somehow it’s his fault for the losses. The Cutler hatred on this site is reaching ludicrous. No, Cutler didn’t have a great season, but the guy is still a better QB than Orton.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
After seeing Cutler fail to cut down the ints, I’m don’t think he’ll ever become an elite NFL QB.
After seeing Orton play, his many physical limitations and lack of improvement in 2009, I know he’ll never becoem an elite NFL QB. I think McD feels this way too after seeing him obtain Tebow and Quinn.
I don’t miss Cutler like I thought I would, but Orton is not the long term answer here. I’m vexed by the support to keep him around like he is a long term viability for the QB spot. I understand screwing him on the tender in 2010, because it’s good for us even if it’s unfair to him.
But Orton very likely won’t be a Bronco at this time next year so it puts Bronco fans in a strange spot to invest hopes in him for such a short term assignment.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
I'm not sold on Cutler as "elite" either
He still has the capabilities, but you’re right, the INT #s have to come down.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
not to back Cutler
But look at the team defenses Cutler played and look where the majority of the INTS came from. Off hand I believe he played against 6 out of the top 10 defenses in the league. I dont remember but it wasnt great.
Still, he needs to cut down the INTS. The difference with Cutler is he is the future in Chicago for good or bad and the coach in Denver has already deemed Orton not to be the future here.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Better HOW though? On TD’s yes. But, on other categories not so much.
We’ve beat this issue to death. A QB is judged on his wins. In that matter Orton was a slightly better QB in ‘09. Does that mean he’s more talented than Cutler? Probably not. They both bring different sets of talents, aptitudes and abilities. Pick your poison.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
Who cares?
What is getting beyond asinine is the constant comparison and debate between Orton and Cutler. Cutler is gone, folks! You know, it doesn’t matter how long you ride a dead horse, it isn’t going to get up.
What is getting ludicrous is the Orton hatred on this site and others. Orton is the Denver Bronco. Cutler is not. If you just have to hate anybody, hate Cutler, not Orton!
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BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
by AZDynamics on May 11, 2010 9:39 AM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
Yeah AZ.....NICE...and I totally agree....Cutler is gone and not even a division or conference opponent so who gives a crap!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
How about not hate either?
I don’t hate Orton, I hate the imaginary version of Orton that is created by people desperate to make him out to be a top-tier QB. He never has been, nor has he shown the propensity to be. Not once have I ever seen Orton do anything that makes me think “Wow. He does that really, really well.”
I’m also not nearly the Cutler-worshiper I’m made out to be, but the guy has shown me things that make me absolutely salivate to see if he can harness the abilities and potential he shows and become what is POSSIBLE, not guaranteed.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
While I disagree with you on Orton, I'm on your side
about not hating either athlete. Actually, I’m a fan of both, have been from the start. For that matter, I was a fan of both Plumer and Cutler way back when.
However, I’m now pulling for Orton because he is now the Denver Bronco. If he keeps Tebow and Quinn on the bench, good. That means he’s the best option. If either Tebow or Quinn displaces him, good. In any case, it will mean the best QB is on the field. In the end, that is what I want as a Broncos fan . . .
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BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
by AZDynamics on May 11, 2010 10:04 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
nice response
I feel the same way
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
The he77 he is better
Cutler makes his team worse and is a loser. End of story. Look no further.
If you want to look at stats that matter, look at W-L records. That’s the most important stat of them all.
Orton = Winner
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
A winner? Really?
Orton’s career record (I believe) is 29-20. Eight of those nine wins above .500 came in 2005 when he was asked to do nothing, and is almost universally agreed to have had nothing to do with the success of the team that year. The rest of his career? .500 ball. Real winner.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
All Right
Improv88, I will confess Cutler has superior skills in terms of throwing a football than Orton. Who cares? He doesn’t win and he never will. He makes Jake Plummer sans 2005 seem like a prolific signal-caller. Of course, let us all bow down and worship the right arm of Cutler which bewitches entire fan bases.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on May 11, 2010 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions
ya Orton looked great that season
er….wait a minute.
The Bears’ defense was the ass kicker on that team!
Orton barely had to play to squeeze out 10-6 final scores. And Chicago decided to start Grossman in the Superbowl!! How’s that for a lack of confidence in a QB that is on a ten game winning streak!
He was a 4th round rookie
I’m not saying Orton is the best ever, but giving him flak for being a rookie who know thought would ever start isn’t fair. He has started 3 out of his 5 seasons, not bad for a 4th round pick. If we look at him as a late round pick, he is actually pretty good value.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Let's be fair here
Chicago had a great defense.
Grossman was a 1st round draft pick who was supposed to start until a pre-season injury sidelined him.
The only reason Orton was thrown into the starter’s role was because the #2 QB played so poorly in the preseason that he failed to make the 53 man roster for that year.
The plan from what I’ve read was always to replace Orton with Grossman as soon as Grossman was deemed physically ready to play.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on May 11, 2010 3:53 PM MDT up reply actions
"Orton barely had to play to squeeze out 10-6 final scores"
In order not to lose 10-6 he had to refrain from throwing interceptions. Not all quarterbacks can manage that.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on May 11, 2010 8:45 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sean in PA got all pissed about saying Orton was 8-8 in 2009. He said Denver was 8-8 in 2009, not Orton.
I tend to agree with Sean in PA on this one. Orton didn’t outproduce Cutler in the W-L column. The Bears of 2005 out produced the Bears of 2009.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
Chicago is in serious danger of being eclipsed by Detroit in the NFC North.
And what a glorious day that will be. Especially if it’s sooner rather than later. It’s almost un-American for each of us Bronco fans not to wish disaster on whatshisname and the Bears (exaggeration of course). Their downfall lends credibility to the McX decision making and gives us a battle cry and a permanent “comeback” every time MSM or enemy friends/fans try to bag on the next “terrible” move we make.
Example: It’s very likely we would be even more of a MSM punching bag for drafting Tebow and ditching Brandon if it hadn’t been for Orton outperforming whatshisname. So far, the outcome of that trade has, at least in some ways, taught the talking-heads to watch they MF mouth when they talkin’ bout us! So I say die Chicago, die!
OK. Now that I got that out there in the world… -)
I’m in full agreement that we keep Kyle Orton at least until he’s no longer our best option. Today, he is that. But barring injury or suspensions to key player(s) or an act of God or war, I see no way that Mr. Orton remains a Bronco for the 2011 season.
I think Kyle’s a smart guy and knows he’s best served by turning in a stellar performance with a smile. I believe McX will take care of him and have likely already told him that should he remain the starter this year and traded next year, he’ll be given much say in where he goes.
We have the future in Tebow, a backup in Quinn (for more time than Orton), and a project in Brandstater. We’re moving to a spread offense, and that doesn’t suit Kyle’s strengths. The key is to show him respect and keep him happy both during the season and at our relationships end.
Eric Decker is the immediate upgrade, not Thomas. Bay Bay and The Tebow are the future. The Spread Offense is coming to the NFL, and our red-zone offense will already be unrecognizably awesome from last year. Coach McDaniels is a Rock Star and the Broncos will have a winning season. I know this all to be true because MSM says it ain't.
Hey come on now
Some of us, maybe just me, are Bears fans too. While I don’t like the heavy pass direction they are going, still got to root for them ya know. While I agree their future is murky, I can’t see them being worse then the Lions this season, that’s like saying Cleveland will beat our Pittsburgh this season, highly unlikely, but might happen.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on May 10, 2010 10:06 PM MDT up reply actions
The Bears are my enemy. Whatshisname is my enemy, too. I’ve got a couple good friends who are Bears fans, so when I say “die”, it’s all in good spirit -)
I truly think the Lions will surprise many people this year. It’s tough to expect a lot of wins fighting it out up north against A-Rog and Farve, but they’ve been stocking talent drafting so high for so many years. Even though their record wouldn’t indicate it, I saw some real signs of life with them last year and think they’re finally on their way to really pulling it all together.
Eric Decker is the immediate upgrade, not Thomas. Bay Bay and The Tebow are the future. The Spread Offense is coming to the NFL, and our red-zone offense will already be unrecognizably awesome from last year. Coach McDaniels is a Rock Star and the Broncos will have a winning season. I know this all to be true because MSM says it ain't.
It's true about the Lions
Their offense is looking pretty good, but without a solid defense, I don’t think they are up to .500 yet, but they may win some surprising games next season. Kind of like the Raiders last season, beating a whole bunch of good teams.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on May 10, 2010 10:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Yep, the Raiders had a surprisingly conventional and sensible draft this year. I’m not sold on Cable yet, but the Raiders’ seemingly solid draft seems to point to the idea that he’s got Davis’ ear, at least more so than his predecessors did. And that’s probably half the battle.
As for the Lions’ D, I agree that they’ll need to get some focus shifted to that side of the ball before they can become a legitimate contender. But they’re not the team they used to be. I think they’ve at least got a puncher’s shot in most of their games. I would be worried in Chi-Town -)
Eric Decker is the immediate upgrade, not Thomas. Bay Bay and The Tebow are the future. The Spread Offense is coming to the NFL, and our red-zone offense will already be unrecognizably awesome from last year. Coach McDaniels is a Rock Star and the Broncos will have a winning season. I know this all to be true because MSM says it ain't.
They've spent so much money
And jetisoned so many starters, I think most Bears fans are pretty confused on what’s happening over there. I suppose there is reason I come to MHR more often, it makes more sense, which is pretty sad considering how confused I usually am.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on May 10, 2010 10:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Plummer wilted under the pressure
of having Cutler waiting in the wings. I think Orton, with Tebow waiting in the wings, will raise his game. He handles pressure better than Plummer or Cutler.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on May 11, 2010 8:50 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not dipping my toe into that Orton vs. Cutler obsession some people seem to have still
but I’ll say this.
There is no way we should trade anybody until the QB competition shakes out this summer. Count me among those who feel that Brandstater is not the odd man out. Tebow is most likely the future and will at minimum most likely be used in short yardage and goal line situations this year. That puts him no lower than second on the depth chart. That leaves Orton vs. Quinn vs. Brandstater vying for 1st/2nd string (whichever TT doesn’t play) or 3rd string. Barring a career-rejuvenating impressive offseason from Quinn, I feel like McDaniels will mostly likely put his most experienced (in the system) QB in that slot, namely Orton, and that Quinn will be traded before the end of camp. Orton is a good, not great, QB but I think his experience will inevitably trump Quinn in the battle. If Quinn can manage to outsling Orton this summer, then Orton will be gone. But we need to let the competition play out, and get the most value we can from whomever we cast off.
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
Trading Orton today (in May) would be a bad move for Denver.
Trading Orton today (or any time this offseason) would be most beneficial to Orton.
This is a zero sum game. While Denver benefits from having Kyle in 2010, he is hurt by having to play for a team that does not view him as a long term option and he misses out on a fair contract in 2010.
Marshall will be making $10MM this season instead of his tender amount. If Orton were an UFA this offseason, he’d be making much closer to $7MM on a long term contract than the $2.5MM he’ll make in 2010 on a one year deal.
I don’t blame Denver for keeping Orton around, but he certainly isn’t happy about it playing on the tender with Tebow and Quinn right behind him.
For all you Orton fans, your boy is getting screwed to the benefit of the Broncos.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
Yep
For all you Orton fans, your boy is getting screwed to the benefit of the Broncos.
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
Unfortunately, thats the nature of the beast....
It sucks for Kyle, but it is what it is….I am not going to hold that against the Broncos or Tebow.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
If Kyle responds to the challenge
by playing well in 2010 he’ll get a nice contract from whichever team is quarterback neediest, so I don’t think being here in 2010 will hurt him unless he plays badly. But I think he’ll play well and get the payday he deserves.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
LOL
DON'T TELL AL GORE WHERE I AM!!!
by manbearpig5000000 on May 12, 2010 10:10 PM MDT up reply actions
This is exactly what has been so idiotic about some posters:
Ridiculing those who like Orton.
It didn’t work. I like Orton. Okay, my having said that, resume ridiculing . . . 
-
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
+1
Arguments that rely on ridicule aren’t really arguments.
What always comes to mind is that it’s a technique that works if you operate at a junior high school level. Curiously, it’s still quite common to find people making ‘arguments’ here at MHR that rely on appeal to ridicule. I think it says something about how these authors view other people, as well as something about how their minds work.
Appeal to ridicule, also called appeal to mockery, the Horse Laugh,1 or reductio ad ridiculum (Latin: “reduction to the ridiculous”), is a logical fallacy which presents the opponent’s argument in a way that appears ridiculous, often to the extent of creating a straw man of the actual argument. For example:
* If Einstein’s theory of relativity is right, that would mean that when I drive my car it gets shorter and heavier the faster I go. That’s crazy! (This is, in fact, true, but the effect is so minuscule a human observer will not notice.)
* As the theory of evolution Is true, that would mean that all the apes wouldn’t be here any more, since they all would have evolved into humans! (This is not true as it is not implied by the theory of evolution.)
This is a rhetorical tactic which mocks an opponent’s argument, attempting to inspire an emotional reaction (making it a type of appeal to emotion) in the audience and to highlight the counter-intuitive aspects of that argument, making it appear foolish and contrary to common sense. This is typically done by demonstrating the argument’s logic in an extremely absurd way or by presenting the argument in an overly simplified way, and often involves an appeal to consequences.
Appeal to Ridicule is often found in the form of challenging one’s credentials or maturity;
* Nobody believes in socialism after college! Grow up.
The argument is ridiculed on the basis that having a view commonly associated with youth is somehow invalid.
Although they appear very similar, this fallacy should not be confused with reductio ad absurdum, which is a valid type of logical argument.
no goats, no glory.
"For all you Orton fans"
I doubt he’ll ever be elite (albeit I think he’ll still get better) but as long as he’s quarterbacking the Broncos I’ll be an Orton fan rooting for him to play as well as possible.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on May 11, 2010 8:59 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Spock
THANKS. That is the heart of my thesis statement! While Orton is here, let him excel and do well for us. The Broncos will benefit from this and so will he. So long as Orton’s the best option for us, I want him here. However long that is, I don’t know. Jimmy the Greek (or Chrissy the Black, Everybody Hates Chris is so funny!) I’m not, so let the chips fall where they may.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on May 12, 2010 12:17 AM MDT up reply actions
At Least
we know Orton will make the most of this situation, while others, who are no longer here, would pout and whine like the petulant brats they are. I don’t want to mention names, but Tony Scheffler and Peyton Hillis come to mind
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on May 12, 2010 12:20 AM MDT up reply actions
Huge Gator fan. Huge Tebow fan. And an Orton fan.
I publicly proclaimed prior to the draft though, that we would NOT pick up Tebow. I proclaimed he was not a need. Obviously, I completely misread McD – and Orton’s abilities.
While I still think Orton could be a Top 10 QB with the right team – I think his best chances of that are with the Broncos. Since Orton is on his way out I don’t think he’ll likely reach my prediction.
Orton may start the season. Tebow will likely finish it. Interesting times (again) in Dove Valley. And yes, Orton is getting screwed. But, this is business. Right now, the Bronco’s best interest are served by having Orton around for a bargain price. As a Bronco fan – it’s a great move. As an Orton fan – I feel bad for the guy and wish him the best in 2011 when he’s somewhere else.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
Apples and Ortons
My opinion of Kyle Orton has not changed (not as glowing as his most ardent supporters around here, not nearly as critical as his detractors). Nor have I jumped on the Tebow bandwagon (love the intangibles, can’t easily discount the risks). Yet my opinion of the Broncos opinion of Kyle Orton has solidified. Their opinion does not seem to be optimistic.
I think this is an important distinction. There are some of us who have neither turned on Orton or fallen in love with Tebow. Instead, there seems to writing on the wall— so to speak— that makes one wonder why reps should be wasted or a circus invited for a guy (Orton)that doesn’t seem to have the full confidence of the organization.
If the coaching staff believes Quinn can be competent, let him warm the seat for a year or two. Then you remove the inevitable and hysterical QB controversy that is already bubbling, and which will erupt full scale the second Orton displays any fallibility.
I think people are being a wee bit idealistic about both the ‘competition’ factor and the potential team wide impact of a full blown media circus/controversy.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on May 11, 2010 10:43 AM MDT reply actions
PO...succinctly put.....thats a great way to sum up my feelings to.....
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Broncos' opinion
That’s an interesting and useful perspective, PO: what do the Broncos (i.e. McDaniels) think? Some people think they know more than the guys who are paid to coach, but I prefer to observe and try to learn something. Successful coaches and quarterbacks come in pairs: Noll and Bradshaw, Walsh and Montana, Holmgren and Favre, Belichick and Brady and, however briefly, Shanahan and Elway. Now McDaniels thinks he’s found his. I don’t think it was a matter of drafting a quarterback to replace Orton. I think it was a matter of grabbing the kind of player who doesn’t come along that often, who happened to be available this year. Maybe McDaniels initially thought Orton was “the” guy. Maybe he’s had his eye on Tebow all along but wanted the best quarterback play he could get in the interim. If Tebow was the one player he had to have in this year’s draft, he showed nerves of steel. What others saw as reaching I saw as flirting with the possibility that somebody else might get (what he sees as) this rare talent in order to get as much value as he could out of the draft. Is he really that rare a talent? If McDaniels, widely considered to be really good with quarterbacks is excited, I’m excited. I’d love to see a new pairing, McDaniels and Tebow, take its place in the pantheon of NFL icons. In the meantime I think Orton will have a good year and enhance his value to the Broncos or whoever else signs him.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
I want to see one thing and one thing only,
that the Broncos have the best on the field at any given time. Until camp happens and we see how each QB performs we will have nothing but speculation and conjecture on who is the best option. Is there an established pecking order, most certainly, but that’s just a starting point. So bascially I’m in a wait and see mode, it’s still to early to try and figure out who’s going to start and who isn’t. And the end of camp I start to worry, if then, about whether we should trade or release anyone………..
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
This QB thing is just getting absurd . . .
A headline in the Bleacher Report email I got just a few minutes ago: “Is Brady Quinn Winning The QB Competition In Denver?” Wow. How could Quinn – or any of the others – be winning anything at this point? They’re not even into OTAs yet.
Just wow.
-
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
by AZDynamics on May 11, 2010 12:23 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Our other guys suck if he is!!! ........relax, just joking.....but not really!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
The Orton/Cutler debate is a no win situation...
The O’s and P’s both have the correct answer…How can anybody win? We are Broncos fans aren’t we? Then why in the world do we find it necessary argue over senseless debate? You guys are worse then a bunch of old men at a barber shop!
Joe Loius was a 168 years old when fought Rocky Marciano.....love that out of Coming to America!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
I would like to see the best leader of men as our QB.
I don’t care who that is either. I know Orton is a leader and a team guy. I believe that Tebow is the same. I don’t know about Quinn or Brandstater. I’m guessing the coaching staff will figure it out though!
I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.
-- Duffy Daugherty
Trust in McDaniels
From my point of view, I saw Orton begin last preseason with boo’s, he threw multiple interceptions. To his credit he did improve quickly, but it was a slow and steddy progress, he wasn’t spectacular by any stretch of the imagination, but he was somewhat effective, while the defense was dominant.
The question though is… will he make the big play for the team when the team needs it most…?
A miracle pass off the hands of Brandon Marshall into the lap of Brandon Stockley aside, the anwser to that question is a big fat NO. He won’t, he may continue to be somewhat effective, and not lose the game for the team, but it will be a rare occassion when he actually wins the game for the team….
And that is why we must trust McDaniels Decision to draft Tebow and bring in Brady Quinn, both are mobile quarterbacks, who can make plays with their feet, something that Orton will never do… Both have the potential to win games.
Good post...I am way more convinced on Tebow than in anythign Brady Quinn has shown since being in the league...
And thats more a reflection on Brady Quinn than on Tebow!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
it was slow and steady ?
Orton completed 124 of 194 passes 64% for 1,465 yds 7.6 ypa, 9 TDs and only 1 INT with a passer rating of 100 through the first 6 games .
He has also led several comebacks over his career. Saying Tebow and Quinn have potential to win games while you basically ignore the fact that Orton already has won games is baffling.
You say you trust McDaniels and yet Orton is still the starting QB as named by him .
I really wish some of you you would stop hiding behind McDaniel spouting this craziness
by Hoopforia on May 12, 2010 9:17 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Not entirely accurate
will he make the big play for the team when the team needs it most…?
A miracle pass off the hands of Brandon Marshall into the lap of Brandon Stockley aside, the anwser to that question is a big fat NO.
Orton led comebacks for wins:
2005 – Chi vs NO 20-17
2008 – Chi vs NO 27-24
2008 – Chi vs GB 20-17
2009 – Den vs Cin 12-7*
2009 – Den vs Dal 17-10
2009 – Den vs NE 20-17
*and don’t give me the “miracle catch” excuse. Stokley was quoted after the game as saying his role in that play was to be in position in case of a tip.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on May 12, 2010 8:24 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Great job Brian....Kyle Orton is WAY under rated on this board!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
I'd Like
to thank the studs of MHR for their numerous posts on this thread. I’ve never had such activity as this in a year and a half. God bless!
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on May 12, 2010 3:55 PM MDT reply actions
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