A Penny for Your Thoughts: Trading Kyle Orton
by Troy Hufford on May 12, 2010 11:30 AM MDT
in 2010 Denver Broncos Offseason
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PrintThe biggest debate of the Denver Broncos off-season, to this point, has been about the quarterback position. It all started when we shipped out Chris Simms and traded a few picks and Peyton Hillis for Brady Quinn. Then, the Broncos went a step further and drafted Tim Tebow.
Now, all of a sudden, there is a full blown war on Kyle Orton. In fact, many are calling for Orton's head, right now, even though Josh McDaniels has said that he wants to have a competition at every position in training camp, including the quarterback position. Why shouldn't Kyle be able to compete for the starting role? He played well, last season, and McDaniels thinks that players will improve if they have competition around them.=
I don't know any better way than to create competition at a spot to create that ascension in terms of every player's level of play. -Josh McDaniels
Despite Josh McDaniels' simple and deliberate explanation of his training camp strategy, Broncos Country and NFL pundits, alike, seem to have their own opinions about what the future holds for Kyle Orton. While the opinions are often varied, sometimes a single idea takes off, becomes either widely accepted or debated and seems to create a story all it's own. Let's start off with an example and explore how speculation can coincide with facts and reason. Shall we?
For the development of Brady Quinn, Tim Tebow and Tom Brandstater, for fairness to Kyle Orton, for the benefit of the other Broncos, for the future of the franchise, for the fans in Bronco Country, for goodness' sake, Orton must be traded.
Orton is not a short-term fix or a long-range fit for the Broncos. A deal should be sought, in my opinion, before the team's voluntary minicamp May 17-19 — so the Broncos and Orton can move on now.-Woody Paige
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Woody Paige, specifically, said, "in my opinion" and his comment still caused hundreds of comments on MHR and probably elsewhere, as well. Instead of thinking about the quote, itself, I found myself wondering if Woody even gave his comment a second thought. Did he choose to ignore McDaniels' comments about wanting competition at every position or did he just forget? Why even discuss an opinion that flies in the face of the coach's intentions?
There are a few reasons that Woody, or any other writer for that matter, would have this opinion, regarding Kyle Orton. First of all, it's his job to have an opinion. Some writers are paid to write stories and, oftentimes, the overall audience can be increased if you rock the boat, a bit. I'm not going to sit here and say that greed is the only motivating factor to write a mailbag feature, because we have a Dude on the MHR staff that does it for free. Obviously, there has to be another reason.
Providing other people with knowledge from a different point of view should be the primary reason for giving your opinion. Some people hold to the belief that opinions are like vacuums. Most everybody has one and they all suck. Some of you may have heard a different version of that adage, but this was the cleanest version that I could come up with. That was a double joke, if you paid close attention.
Anyways, opinions are only as valuable as the person providing it. A solid opinion from a great source, presented in a clear and helpful way, is often invaluable in providing knowledge to anyone who comes across it. In order for a story or report to take on a life of it's own and become of real value, useful opinions that teach are absolutely necessary to put the rest of the story into context.
Speculating and debating is good wholesome fun that often makes for some quality conversation, but we need to be mindful and make sure that we don't rely on speculation and opinion, alone. A delicate balance of fact and opinion must be maintained or we will speculate our way into nonsense.
Facts and Speculation Can Coexist
With that said, are the opinions or speculations, surrounding Kyle Orton, relevant to the actual course of action that the Broncos may take in the coming weeks or months? Many people, not only Woody Paige, are speculating about whether or not Kyle Orton will be traded or released. That's all fine and dandy, but whether or not there is any legitimacy behind those opinions, remains to be seen.
For a moment, let's go over some facts. Kyle Orton, last year, threw 3802 yards for 21 TDs and 12 INTs. Get ready for an opinion of mine… That's not too shabby, for a quarterback in his first year of the Josh McDaniels system, battling a finger injury and ankle injury at various times, during the year...
We can also add that the Broncos got rid of Chris Simms while picking up Brady Quinn and Tim Tebow. Those are facts. However, off-season acquisitions, in and of themselves, don't tell us very much about where players will end up on the depth chart. If a team were to pick up a player because they didn't have a quality starter at that position, then you could reasonably assume that whoever is picked up will be first on the depth chart. The Broncos aren't that team. We had a pretty good starter in 2009, according to stats, and our coach has spoken highly of Orton during the off-season, as well.
(from Potent Quotables, April 24th 2010)Kyle Orton remains the Bronco's starting quarterback
"Still, no question. There is somebody that is going to start at every position. Certainly (Orton) earned the respect of his teammates and coaches last year from what he did and it's a competitive group now - that's what it is. We think that competition is going to make everyone better. We talked about the need for that position to be a leader on our team - one of our better players, if not our best player...
Quotes from off-season interviews can be taken as facts. Although, when two people look at one interview, they can infer two different things, so interview quotes are not always a universal fact for every person. Words like "coach-speak" and "smokescreen" creep into the picture, when we talk about interviews, so it can be quite difficult to turn a quote into a concrete fact, universally accepted by all readers.
So, now what? We've got some basic stats, off-season moves and some interview quotes, none of which can constitute a concrete, universally held opinion, by themselves. With all of this said, how did someone arrive at the opinion "Orton will be traded before training camp"? Honestly, I have no idea.
...for fairness to Kyle Orton, for the benefit of the other Broncos...-Woody Paige
If we knew for a fact that Orton won't start on opening day and we decided to trade Orton right away, it would benefit Orton because he would get a chance to digest the new offense of whatever team lands him. That's a valid idea and it makes a bunch of sense. However, that doesn't benefit the Broncos because, right now, we don't know that Orton won't start on opening day and, until we do, Orton will compete for the starting job, as promised by Josh McDaniels.
For all we know, Orton could dominate the QB competition in training camp and if we trade him now, it could be a major mistake, possibly costing Denver the playoffs, next season. Wouldn't it be a bummer to trade him in May, deciding not giving him a fair chance to compete for the starting job, and watch him have an outstanding year in 2010 and take a different team to the playoffs?
The best approach would be to let the quarterback competition play out and evaluate the situation from there. Right? Well, sure, but it wouldn't be nearly as fun. Let's speculate. There are three other quarterbacks on the roster that can be traded or released. It is pretty safe to say that Tim Tebow is fairly safe. McDaniels loves what he brings to the table, in terms of talent and work ethic, and it's very rare to watch a first round QB get cut in his first training camp.
However, Brandstater could be cut in training camp, if his development isn't as good as McDaniels thought it would be, at this point. Granted, Brandstater is a very small investment and it wouldn't kill us on the payroll if we kept him around. However, if it came down to roster math and Brandstater wasn't cutting the mustard, he could be a goner.
Then, there's Brady Quinn. He has struggled in the NFL, but it might not be entirely his fault. Cleveland has been a poor place for quarterbacks over the last few years. Although, they had a promising young group to catch the football, they decided to trade Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow, leaving only a converted kick returner (Josh Cribbs) to catch passes for them. Just ask Jay Cutler if he knows the difference between throwing to real receivers and throwing to converted kick returners.
Anyways, Brady Quinn is as much a mystery as Tim Tebow, in my opinion, since he was a Cleveland quarterback, in his past life. Maybe, after he is given ample time to work out and show his stuff, he isn't as good as McDaniels thought? Perhaps Brady Quinn could be leaving Denver, instead of Kyle Orton. I'm not saying that will be the case, but it's certainly within the realm of possibility and has as much credibility as the Orton speculation does.
3 is the Magic Number, or is it?
You could make a case for any one of our quarterbacks (minus Tebow, in all likelihood) to be leaving Denver, but do any of them really have to go? Roster math tells us that we won't keep 4 quarterbacks. Somebody will get cut or traded before we head to Jacksonville for week 1. Right?
Roster math is not a very straight forward process. One of the quarterbacks will probably be cut or traded, but it isn't required by the NFL Roster Rules. Having 3 quarterbacks on the roster is pretty common in the NFL, but if Josh McDaniels and Brian Xanders decide to keep 4 on the roster, that option is still available. Brandstater would probably have to go back to the practice squad and the Broncos would lack a bit of depth at another position, but it's a possibility.
If that were to happen, it only adds more questions to be pondered. Could we put Tebow on the roster as a quarterback but use him as a goal line bruiser to score some touchdowns? What if the Broncos kept 4 quarterbacks and cut some wide receivers, instead? What if we traded Orton for a linebacker? Could we trade Jacksonville, later, if we change our mind about Quinn?
The speculation rolls on. It can be an interesting mental exercise that provides us something to talk about, in an otherwise mundane portion of the calendar. While there is no way for us to know the answers to all of the off-season questions, giving an educated guess will not be discouraged, so long as you have a legitimate amount of facts or reasoning.
That's not to say that everyone will always agree with your opinion, either, and I'm sure that there are many of you that don't agree with mine. No big deal. Keep in mind that if your opinion encounters opposition, it isn't necessarily a personal attack. Don't feel bad, just think of a better opinion or back up your thoughts with some concrete stats, quotes or threats reasons.
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Dang! I thought we had a full-blown post and thread on this already
with hundreds of comments. ??? What more can we say that hasn’t already been discussed into the ground…
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
by BroncTastic on May 12, 2010 11:42 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
You comment will be commentated on as well
If you would like to comment on my comment, please commentate below.
Thanks!
I commented too quick, I think
I wasn’t trying to denigrate kentuckybronco’s efforts, which I applaud. It was a knee-jerk reaction to seeing almost solid Tebow coverage day in and day out and I usually withhold from those. Should have so here, as well. My bad.
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
by BroncTastic on May 12, 2010 12:09 PM MDT up reply actions
I know that, really
but I still felt bad about my too-hasty post. Thanks for the ribbing, though! It makes it feel somewhat better…
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
by BroncTastic on May 12, 2010 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Freud says:
“Anyone who has allowed the truth to slip out in an unguarded moment is in fact glad to be free of the pretense.”
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
No worries, BT.
I didn’t take it that way, at all. Tebow coverage every day would be interesting, but it would get stale, after a while (and it already has, for many of you). I tried to maintain balance and talk about all the quarterbacks a bit and not focus only on Tebow.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on May 12, 2010 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions
and you did a great job
seriously, it was a knee-jerk reaction on my part of seeing the topic and had NOTHING to do with the quality of the post, which was excellent.
I honestly try to never type and post something that quick, and this is a Grade A example of why. It was a real error on my part. I always enjoy your posts and comments, KB. Can I pleeeeeaaaaase have a mulligan?
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
by BroncTastic on May 12, 2010 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions
You can't have a mulligan, but I take bribes. :)
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on May 12, 2010 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions
I said the same thing to an ex girlfriend once
she wasnt my ex girlfriend but I’m sure she was someone’s! lol
LOL That's great...
Thanks man. The bribe is in the mail…
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
by BroncTastic on May 12, 2010 12:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Good Read Kentucky!
I think Orton is done after this season as he will be looking for a bigger contract than what the Broncos want to give him. So I think the Broncos will be raising his stock early in the season. Watch for them to put Brandstater on the PS until about week 6 – then trade Orton, start Tebow and Brandstater will be up on the depth chart again.
Just my opinion, but things like this have happened before, have they not?
Quinn might be able to unseat Orton this year but I'd be shocked if Tebow can.
Brandstater seems like the odd man out to me.
Some people got nothing to be angry about so they're angry about nothing.
Look, if Brady Quinn unseats Orton then Orton should NEVER have been our starter.....Brady Quinn has been DREADFUL in his NFL career...
No average…DREADFUL.
He can not improve enough to unseat Orton unless Orton does not show up.
Its either Orton or Tebow…..god help our team if its Brady Quinn.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Since Brady Quinn has four years NFL experience, is he not better
Than Tebow? Of course the answer is yes! NAH, I can see Brady beating out Kyle.
I dont believe that AT ALL.....4 years of BAD experience, and ingraining BAD habits actually probably puts Brady Quinn behind where he should be....
I dont subscribe to that.
BAD EXPERIENCE IS WORTH LESS THAN NO EXPERIENCE.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
And 4 years of bad habits in college
Doesn’t make Tebow underqualified? You’re making an argument where there is none. Quinn deserves a fair shake in minicamp just as much as the other QBs on the roster. It doesn’t matter where he’s been; he’s a Bronco right now with great coaching and competition to better his game.
by Rob4Braves on May 12, 2010 1:09 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not bad habits at all Rob.....
he had 4 years of winning, 4 years of excellent….Quinn got WORSE in the NFL….thats not a good comparison….as Quinn had bad habits coming out and they have got worse!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
you cant make that judgement....
look at quinn’s situation. no coaching. no line. hardly a running game. and a reciever (that ultimatly got traded) that had more drops then marshall(in previous years… mr. edwards) and last year… some guy named massaquoi… no kellen winslow… quinn is pretty decent and would lead and do probably just a good job as a system QB as Orton.. id rather get value for orton (who signed his 1 year tender this year, and obviously will be a FA if he stays with us this year) now .. then just lose him for nothing. theres teams out there (probably buffalo for 1) that would welcome in a kyle orton and i say, lets at least get something for him while the getting is good rather then losing him in FA next year for nothing.
I think what he was implying is
Quinn’s confidence may be shot. He will 2nd guessing himself and when you do that, you tend to make bad choices with the ball.
Tebow came from a winning environment where he was smart with the ball, whether he tucked it away or threw it – he always seemed to know what exactly to do with it. The only flaw was a mechanical problem, which has already been fixed, McD said so himself!
It doesn’t take long to relearn muscle memory when you practice something 500 times a day!
What is the real benefit of having 4 QBs
on the active roster. I can’t think of any. Brandstater, while he may end up being a good QB, is probably the odd man out. If you keep 4 QBs that means another position takes a hit on the active roster. Considering the risk of injury at the other postions I just don’t see it being a wise choice. I truely believe KO will be the starter at the beginning of the season, it’s his job until someone takes if from by their play and ability to perform. Next year I think it’s becomes a different sceanrio, if we don’t have a lock out anyway.
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
Good Points BCHIPER...but look at this way...
We mostly all agree Orton is gone next year. Why get rid of a developmental QB that has already been in the system and have to go draft one NEXT year and start over again,
Thats not McD’s MO…..makes no sense to me.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
I agree
Brandstater is probably the 2nd safest QB behind Tebow. I dont see any real reason to move him at this moment. He isnt costing the team much and he presents no controversy.
Plus, I would be peeved if Denver traded a 5th to move up and get him only to decide a year later to drop him.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on May 12, 2010 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions
He costs us a roster spot
and it is not such a cheap thing
Can't you practice squad him?
Thats what I was getting at.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
This has been discussed at length in other posts
According to the research that Kirk Davis did, under current NFL rules, Brandstater is not eligible for the practice squad.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on May 12, 2010 5:33 PM MDT up reply actions
SOrry.. I dont read every article
I just saw an article where it said he was eligble. Either way, if he isnt he gets dropped.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
I believe he was on the 53 roster for too many games (9)...Could be wrong though...
They would either have to keep him and trade Orton/Quinn, run a 4 QB roster or cut him.
cool
thanks for clarify that for me.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
We traded "up" to get Brandstater as the first pick in the 7th round?
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on May 12, 2010 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions
oops, I mean the 6th
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on May 12, 2010 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions
Never mind, I just found the info
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on May 12, 2010 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions
Wasn't Brandstater picked up
because all we had on the roster at the time was Orton & Simms?
Now we have Orton, Quinn & Tebow.
It may well be that Brandstater will become superfluous.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on May 12, 2010 1:53 PM MDT up reply actions
The problem I see with a 4th QB
is it becomes basically a dead spot on the roster during the season. I’m not saying it wouldn’t happen, but, personnally it’s not a choice I’d make. I can see having 4 thru camp, but after that I’m just not so sure. Could Orton be the odd man out, I guess, he’d have good value on the market. We’ll have to wait and see what happens….we might just be surprised.
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
Good point boydy
but what position slot would we sacrafice to keep a 4th QB? Maybe a line position? I guess overall it depends on what confidence McDaniels has in Brandstater.
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
Might depend on
who we can stick on the PS and not worry about losing. Start the season with 4, then work a trade when a team needs a QB through injury, etc…
I bet Josh gets all the info he needs through camp to make a smart decision. I agree it makes no sense to keep 4, but if they are all looking good, I think you have to try to get something in return, you can’t just cut ’em…
So I see you rolled your way into the semis?
by OutOfYourElement on May 12, 2010 8:14 PM MDT up reply actions
think about the injury history that both orton and quinn have...
…it can’t hur tot have more QBs
Contracts or injury insurance, I guess.
Since the Broncos don’t appear to be offering Orton a long term deal, he’ll probably be playing on a 1 year contract. Quinn is also on a 1 year deal, if I remember correctly (correct me if I’m wrong). Tebow is a rookie, so he’ll probably get a 3 or 4 year deal to start out with and Brandstater has 2 years left on his deal.
So, if Orton is our starting QB, we would keep him on the roster. If Quinn is number 2, we’ll keep him. Obviously we won’t exile Tebow, right now. Brandstater stays if McD thinks he might work out in the long term, plus he isn’t a large investment, monetarily.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on May 12, 2010 11:59 AM MDT up reply actions
You're right, iSavant.
He signed a 5 year deal in 2007 with the Browns. Thanks for correcting me. Obviously, I didn’t remember correctly.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on May 12, 2010 1:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Here's my opinion...
If Tebow outperforms Orton in camp and pre-season Orton gets traded.
If Orton is our best QB, we keep all 4. I have a feeling Quinn is back up regardless of who starts. McD sees upside in Brandy and sees him as his MATT CASSELL Project.
Tebow, Quinn and Quinn will remain in either scenario.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
agree with most of that, boydy
except this:
I have a feeling Quinn is back up regardless of who starts.
If Tebow doesn’t start, he’s needs to be 2nd string so that he can be used in short yardage / red zone situations. (I don’t think you are allowed to do that with a 3rd stringer, are you?)
So if that’s the case, whichever QB between Orton or Quinn doesn’t start will be traded for value by the final reduction down to 53. (At least that will be the case if McD believes in Brandstater at all. If not, Tom will be gone and the three will be KO, BQ, and TT.)
My main point is this. As much as McD loves these guys — and if he didn’t, they wouldn’t be here — i just don’t see him sacrificing depth at other positions just to keep all four of them.
So that’s my hunch, and I’m sticking with it. ; )
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on May 12, 2010 12:40 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
If TB can play and KO or BQ are both viable, then KO or BQ needs to be traded for value.
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on May 12, 2010 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions
before the final cut down, that is. I wouldn’t do it until I had to from a depth perspective.
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on May 12, 2010 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions
The Patriots
never had a big name behind Brady. Nor did they have a big name behind Bledsoe. Brady wasn’t a big name until he made one for himself.
I would imagine HCMcD will run his show similar.
McD did say
that they saw something in Tom Brady before he had his shot that made them feel he had potential. I’d wager he’ll hang on to a guy if he sees a future in him. But right now, clearly, TT has his heart. So anything’s possible I guess! lol
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on May 12, 2010 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions
true
for all we know, McD may not plan to start Tebow until next season. However if Orton gets injured again, Tebow will be in for good.
Orton’s ankles have been injured the last 2 seasons, so even a minor injury he may be apt to yank Orton to give Tebow an opportunity. If Tebow does well, Orton never plays in Denver again and the fans love McD – if Tebow doesn’t do well, well then Orton will finish out the season at least after he recovers.
SImms
McD tried the no name- Simms – last year and got Torched. I think he has learned better.
Last year no quality back-ups. This year too many!! Sometimes the best you can do is just laugh at the irony.
To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also DREAM; not only plan, but also BELIEVE.
Brandstater to Practice Squad
or, Orton or Quinn will be cut at end of training camp.
From everything I have read BRANDSTATER is NOT eligible for Practice Squad. Am I wrong?
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
if this is true
I say Brandstater is gone or Quinn or Orton are traded. I highly doubt we will keep 4 QB’s on the roster as we need all the depth we can get at the lines!
I think he's eligible.
It’s kind of complicated.
You get an accrued season if you are on the 53 man roster for more than 6 games in a season.
As relevant here, you are not eligible to be on a practice squad if you have an accrued season UNLESS (and here is the tricky part) you have less than 9 games on the active list (45 man) roster during your accrued season(s).
Source: the CBA, p. 171
I doubt Brandstater had 9 games on the Active List last year, so I’m sure he’s PS eligible.
would be a nice option if it were possible
I do like Tommy B.
But I’d still question the wisdom of keeping a QB on the practice squad when we’ve had two straight years of positional decimation at RB and OL.
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on May 12, 2010 12:53 PM MDT up reply actions
Why would we get rid of our only QB with a winning record in the NFL?
I mean, that’s like betting everything you have on double sixes. Twelve the hard way baby!
303
魏 多福
exactly my thought!
I didn’t like the Tebow draft but we are stuck with him and i hope he does exceedingly and abundantly more than everyone’s expectations but seriously? I cant see this guy starting after one year. I remember last year after we traded Cutler how everyone loved Orton’s work ethic, blue color attitude, and overall intelligence of the game…And he didn’t let us down. Orton is a winning Quarterback….winner, not wiener or whiner.
Orton knows the system now so i dont see how he cant improve and i can see this guy as our qb for at least 2 more years UNLESS we cant/wont pay him what he wants or worth…but hey what do i know i just love to watch the drama! ;)
"Iron sharpens Iron."
Tommy B., we hardly knew ye
Orton will start as he has the best knowledge of the offense and has done well in it. Should he show improvement over last year, he’ll make it through the year. (barring injury of course). Quinn will be a backup this year and probably next as I think Tebow would take the reigns next year. So for now, Tommy B. is the odd man out, but could be brought back after this season as Orton will be a RFA and will need a 3rd developmental QB.
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
not necissarily (sp?) ...
tebow is already showing mcd his intelligence and is heads and shoulders above any normal rookie QB in learning the system (and lets not forget that mcd is implementing quite a few of urban meyers philosophies and plays into his amoeba “spread” offense that mcd wants to run) … he could possibly.. POSSIBLY enter the season as the # 1 .. but imho, with orton (coming off his greatest season preformance wise) his trade value is at its highest and should be utilized. Quinn could do.. (if tebow isnt exactly READY at the start of the season) and probably would do, the same things Orton did last year, except Quinn is more mobile and can make plays with his legs.
I don't see us trading ANY of the QB's early
While it would certainly benefit Orton to be traded now as opposed to later on in the season…It ALSO makes sense to let Tebow and Quinn (who knows ANYTHING about Brandy) duke it out for number 2 slot. This will give them BOTH the option of having the same amount of time inside the playbook, and watching the offense from afar.
Orton’s trade value is certainly up right now compared to where it was a few years ago…but he’s still not a top dollar QB. But if he puts in another better year, and improves on the level that he has been, then after this year he will fetch a pretty penny for some trade fodder.
Of course its possible he becomes the most amazing QB to ever play the game….but odds are he is not the long term solution….
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
I know of him
at least a handful.. im from Hawaii, so ive seen the guy play at Fresno on 5 or 6 occasions.. and although he was considered one ofthe better QBs in the WAC i dont recall him doing much at all.. In fact i think i remember him looking quite average against Hawaii (whose secondary hasn’t exactly been scary).. and the rest of the WAC too.. Im not one to say he cant be a good QB, but from what i’ve seen from him, its nothing to get excited over..
by Broncos808 on May 12, 2010 2:55 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
LOL
isn’t being “one of the better” in the WAC like being a servicable #2 in the SEC? HAHA JK I really have no clue what I’m talking about, I don’t even watch college ball lol.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
Brandstater to Practice Squad
Orton starts, Quinn backs him up and Tebow holds a clipboard and learns by following McD around like a lost puppy the whole season.
Next year even if Orton leads us to the Super Bowl (hey, why not?) it is an open competition between Tebow, Quinn, and Brandstater for the starting spot. Best QB wins it. This fits what McD seems to like more than anything else.
User name pronounced Air-Ah-Miss Originally from my days in the SCA, became a gamer and forum tag because it is odd and it is a name I like
Only Brandstater is not eligible for the practice squad
according to all of the research I’ve seen.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on May 12, 2010 5:34 PM MDT up reply actions
lol @ 2 idiots that think Tebow will be cut/traded
Comparing Michael Lombardi to Bill Williamson is like comparing an In-N-Out Cheeseburger to a sh## sandwich.
Williamson would probably eat both – no questions asked.
We are trading Tebow to Oakland for Kyle Boller...cant have too many Kyles!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Quinn will be traded
IMHO and it is just an opinion for sure, I am not paid to evaluate talent in the NFL or any other football capacity. I just think Tom Brandstater threw the ball exceptionally well when he played most of the 3rd or 4th preseason game last year with Orton and Simms both out with minor injuries. To me Brandstater is very similar to Brady especially the physical measurables but I think he has a slightly stronger arm. I don’t know if he has all the intangibles to be a great quarterback but I honestly expected him to push Orton for the starting job this year. With that said the “powers that be” inside Broncos head quarters must not feel the same way about Brandstater since they drafted Tebow. So if Brandstater is 2 on the depth chart that means Quinn is gone and may also have the most trade value at this point. Sorry if I got carried away and long winded but you asked me to explain my answer so I did.
by golfsnow on May 12, 2010 12:00 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
haha, it's like deja vu.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on May 12, 2010 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Just hypothetically ...
What if, Kyle Orton were to be traded
Then, on the way out of town, Kyle declares that the Broncos better be prepared to be stomped every time he faces them in the future. ( This wouldn’t really occur, Kyle wouldn’t be that guy)
Time passes and we all look at the Bronco Schedule and see that Kyle’s team is next.
What is your reaction. Are we all concerned that Kyle will transcend to the level where he picks his team up and carries them to a huge victory?
Kyle is probably not a guy who would say that or think that… he’s a pro. Could he perform that way?
Would you want to have a QB with the fire in his belly to make such a statement. Would you want to have a QB who could strike fear in opponents?
WWTTD?
More importantly...What would Chuck Norris do?
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Chuck would hold the world on his shoulders
while doing one-handed push-ups, that’s what!
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
by BroncTastic on May 12, 2010 12:30 PM MDT up reply actions
He keeps a hand out, just in case
but he does the push-ups by blowing on the universe…
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
by BroncTastic on May 12, 2010 12:42 PM MDT up reply actions
holy moly!
now that is Impressive. Although I heard TT can do it just by levitating. While Chuck can run across water with his blazing speed, TT can walk on it, no?
Actually Chuck norris doesn't do push ups....
He pushes the world down
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
Suggesting trading Orton now is moronic
Of Denver’s four quarterbacks, only one has proven himself a capable NFL player. So which one do the Post dipsticks suggest should be traded sooner rather than later? That’s right. It makes aboslutely no sense. Even if McDaniels had never made his “Orton remains the starter” comment, there is absolutely no way he would consider trading him at this point.
by warmick on May 12, 2010 12:14 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
if this is the logic behind that
Then Quinn should be traded…. afterall TB has had not 1 losing or winning season where Quinn has had nothing but a losing season in Cleveland.
Obviously a QB who has had a clean slate is better than a QB who had a losing slate, yes?
In my opinion, a QB who fits the system, who is also intelligent and can perform better than the others is the one who should play, it should not be determined as to who has had a winning record, a losing one or none at all.
They all proved they can be a capable NFL player, they made it to the NFL did they not?
That's my best case scenario
Trading Quinn. McD couln’t have known we’d end up with Tebow when we traded for Quinn.
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
I dont think that ANYONE would subscribe to trading any of the QB's, especially Kyle Orton, now....
But I have seen some saying it which is, as warmick has said…MORONIC!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Yep...I cant see any point trading any of them NOW, do you 55....come TC...yep, I could buy in!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
agreed on that note
Thats why I thought Orton (or Quinn) would be gone by mid season. That gives our future a start in Tebow, and get what we can for one of those two QB’s before their eventual release!
Many teams think Quinn has great potential and can still flourish in today’s NFL, but Orton has been proven he can be a winner! Their stock will raise as the season starts to go under way!
Wasn't that word changed to AlDavisonic?
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
by BroncTastic on May 12, 2010 12:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Nothing
is decided until the end of training camp.. and could include the possibility of an injury, God forbid.
'The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.'
-- Albert Einstein
Interesting fanshot by CombatChuk...
the writer of the article written believes that Orton may have bought his own ticket out of town by angering Bowlen. Not sure I agree with him or not but he does present a cogent argument.
Off topic but I posted a new FanShot related to Brian Westbrook/Broncos rumors
if anyone’s interested…
LINK
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Its always intriguing how all controversy with the team begins with the Denver Post
With that aside, I think Orton will likely win the job this year. He knows the system (the same system Tom Brady said takes multiple seasons to truly learn) better than any of the other QB’s. It is really Orton’s job to lose. I have not seen any Credible evidence as of today that states Orton is going to get traded. Just trade rumors and speculation that is harder to read than the stars in the sky. I expect a good strong QB competition with Orton getting the nod and Brandstater going to the practice squad.
"If we cannot find a way, we will make one." -Hannibal
by AvalancheRescueDog on May 12, 2010 1:18 PM MDT reply actions
I couldn't agree more, ARD.
It’s important to decipher what is speculation based on opinion and what is speculation based on facts and reason. To be fair, Woody did say “in my opinion” which stipulated that he was saying simply what he thought. It wasn’t necessarily an opinion based on the evidence that has been presented in the offseason, but for whatever reason, that opinion took off and became a story of it’s own.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on May 12, 2010 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions
“Now, all of a sudden, there is a full blown war on Kyle Orton. In fact, many are calling for Orton’s head, right now”
Who said or called for this?
Orton cut? Again, who suggested that?
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
I made the poor decision to read the DP, again...
You’ve got Woody who says that the Broncos should trade him. Then, Kiszla wants Orton to just walk away from the situation and abstain from “wasting another year” in Denver. Add 70% of the DP poll and I think it’s fair to say that “many are calling for Orton’s head”.
I’m not saying that “many are calling” refers to MHR members. As we’ve shown in this comment thread, here, many agree that Orton will stick around, for a while. However, there are DP pundits that want Orton out, in one form or another, along with quite a few DP commenters…. I know. Shame on me for reading them….
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on May 12, 2010 2:13 PM MDT up reply actions
Step Away From the Keyboard KB
This is your sponsor. The first step is admitting that you have a problem. Sure, at first it’s just for thrills, you know? You hit the DP a few times, maybe get a username, it’s all very innocent. But pretty soon you’re spouting inaccurate stats, weird conclusions and conflicting theories by the same writer, Next, you’re starting to respond to comments. That’s when the trouble really starts. And then what does it get you? Angry. How’s that help? Sure, your grandmother used to read the DP, but who wants to know what you grandmother thinks? No one – not even your grandfather.
We can get you through this, but it’s going to take a lot of soul-searching, bad coffee and tons of telling other people idealized versions of your problems so often that you’ll actually believe them. And that’s just for how you feel about the raiders………..
Gnothi Seauton
by Doc Bear on May 12, 2010 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions 8 recs
It's under control, Doc...... I can stop whenever, I want.....
Really, I can…. It’s just casual viewing, every once in a while…. I’m not becoming a DP poster….
McDummy!!!
Oh, who am I kidding…. (sob)….. You’re right. I need professional help.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on May 12, 2010 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions
And rec'd to you, as well. hahaha
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on May 12, 2010 2:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Doc -
Thanks for the Levity – it is needed when we all suffer from the dreaded Bronco Off-Season Blues (BOSB). Too many thoughts about too litle football.
Is this what they meant by “Fantasy Football”?
To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also DREAM; not only plan, but also BELIEVE.
Well, for me that involves Beyonce and I playing 'touch' football
But it may have to do for the moment ;-)
Gnothi Seauton
No Holding Penalties called!!
In fact just throw the flags away :-)
To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also DREAM; not only plan, but also BELIEVE.
LOL
but who wants to know what you grandmother thinks? No one – not even your grandfather.
Seriously, I laughed out loud…
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
hahahahahaha
Future 2010 MHR Fantasy Football Champion! ;)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
Only time will tell.
Who knows what will happen in training camp, let alone the regular season. Will we be calling Tim Tebow “Tebench”, or “The Big Tebowski”?
I think we should keep Kyle Orton
by BroncosFaN88 on May 12, 2010 2:01 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
BTW, KB
Great photo of Orton at the top. For those of you who want to put Orton into retirement, take a close look. This happened in pre-season, and the man was a stud playing through the injury (dislocated bone sticking out through the skin). Anyone know of a QB on our roster that’s tougher than Mr. Orton?
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
Dark horse to the fore
My contrarian money says Tom Brandstater shocks everyone by showing himself the most capable quarterback before opening day.
Sure, you don’t bet your life savings on this proposition, but you don’t ignore nature, which says: expect the unexpected. I have not seen a thing to suggest Brandstater lacks ability. Meanwhile, he does lack the burden of high expectations, and he is trained in sports psychology. I like this player.
by oorange blood on May 12, 2010 2:32 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Definitely
I would not be surprised at all to see Brandstater win the starting job. IMO, it’s between him and Orton.
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
There you go, oorange blood. Putting money on the longshot will increase your winnings.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on May 12, 2010 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Lol
i see a new sig coming.
Some people hold to the belief that opinions are like vacuums. Most everybody has one and they all suck.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My signature has been around for a long time, but I think it's time to put Taylor Swift to bed...
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on May 12, 2010 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions
I'll volunteer
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
haha, get in line, my friend.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on May 12, 2010 2:55 PM MDT up reply actions
You might need to get it repaired by a licensed repairman, but after that, it should be able to suck like it was straight out of the box.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on May 12, 2010 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Rec'd for the "double joke". Nice.
In my opinion, it’d be crazy to get rid of Orton. He’s the only proven QB we have. Tebow is…controversial. Quinn = Simms = Ramsey (i.e. not quite competent) until proven otherwise. Brandstater is the dark horse.
I wouldn’t get rid of any of them.
"Remember, it's only a game."
Orton is gone
Broncos would have acquired Quinn in the Cutler trade had McDaniels been evil enough to bestow that douche on the team he grew up rooting for. He’s a nice guy, so it didn’t play out that way. Not to insinuate niceness allows one to walk all over him, though. Cutler crossed him so he traded him to Chicago where he knew he’d collapse under the pressure brought on by perennially bloodthirsty fans. Smart. Devious, even. Didn’t matter who was coming back in the trade.
Kyle Orton ended up being the throw-in to complete the deal, though picks were the real bounty. Orton maintained his gritty competitiveness last year but he’s not the athlete nor the student of the game McDaniels ever envisioned carrying out his vision on the field. Orton was simply the closest to average of three below-average QBs last season. Such is the predicaments of most first-year coaches.
Flash forward a year and McDaniels has the QB he originally wanted in Quinn plus the once-in-a-lifetime potential-oozing total package in Tim Tebow. Both are hyperathletic and knowledge sponges.
Not to paint Orton as a rube, he’s adequately intelligent. And while I think his reputation as a booze/bootyhound broham hayseed are exaggerated (his wife has obviously tamed him), he doesn’t strike me as a McDaniels Quarterback. Nor should he you.
People will point to Tom Brady. He was pudgy coming out of Michigan. But McDaniels inherited him. Brady is also remarkably more intelligent than Orton. McDaniels is a good enough coach to turn Orton into a more than serviceable pro, but when you have two kids who in their currently raw state are already a better jumping off point? You thank Orton for his service and cut ties. Let him compete somewhere else.
It’s a shame Orton views himself so staunchly as a starter. He could be a good DeBerg/Kubiak type to Quinn this year. And since I just played my hand.. to that end, I think Quinn is the starter this season and probably another after that with plenty of Tebow mixed in. Quinn is the perfect bridge. If the Broncos win a Super Bowl this upcoming season or in 2011 that will complicate things, but even if that happens I think the torch gets passed.
Keep TB as a 3rd stringer. I maintain McDaniels just threw a dart at a wall of prospects with that pick, but he has a good makeup and a year in the system. More importantly, he knows his role.
by ELGee on May 12, 2010 3:35 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
As far as the "Orton is our only proven pro" argument goes...
…that’s asinine. He’s played the most games but he hasn’t set the world on fire. His stellar W/L record was a fluke for the most part. That D in Chicago carried him, as did the Broncos’ early on.
This is a .500 team. The demand from some fans for instant gratification is baffling. Rather than the new guys learning on the fly and being better for it down the road, they want a ‘proven’ guy to go out there and keep us barely above water. A 9-7 (best-case) season guarantee is more gratifying to some of us than a potentially poor (6-10?) season with Quinn at the helm. That’s a scared though process. Thankfully our coach isn’t a coward.
This is not completely accurate:
That D in Chicago carried him
05 – Orton’s record 10-5; Chicago Defense was 1st in points, 2nd in yards
06 – Orton sat behind Grossman & Griese
07 – Orton replaced Grossman/Griese after they proved to be ineffective & he went 2-1; the Chi defense was 16th in points & 28th in yards
08 – Orton went 9-6; the defense 16th in points and 21st in yards.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
by Brian Shrout on May 12, 2010 5:44 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think thats pretty accurate
Care to make that argument for Rex Grossman, who actually has a better record than Orton?
IMO
Posted this on the other thread too, but think is relevant.
You seem to be saying Orton is a mediocre to bad NFL QB… and that is flat out WRONG.
Too many people underestimate how difficult it is to find and keep even a "mediocre" NFL-starting caliber QB.
There are far more "below average" QBs out there than there are elite or "mediocre".
Remember, because of injuries, incompetance benchings, etc. there are about 40-50 starting QBs in the NFL in a given season, with the bottom ~25 getting cycled and replaced consistently… Getting a QB who posts stats consistently in the top ~15-20 range (Orton) is NOT mediocre… it is actually VERY GOOD.
Replacing Orton, purely on statistics and probability, is more likely to result in WORSE performance than better, because he is ABOVE AVERAGE. Tebow and Quinn have some interesting upside… but the fact is they are more likely to be worse than Orton than they are to be better. That is the risk you take for the upside they provide.
I think a few points were off
- Orton is considered very smart, spending more time in the film room then a lot of his teammates, here’s a link. While no genius like Brady or Manning, he’s a pretty smart quarterback. His college experience changed him, and he has said himself, he isn’t the same person.
- Orton has never viewed himself as above other players, that he is insured the starting spot. Twice in his career he has been a back-up. While he may not like it, if he doesn’t get traded and is our 2nd stringer, he won’t complain.
- Quinn had some tough lumps in Cleveland, but he isn’t a rookie, we’ve seen him play, we’ve seen him compete, and it’s not like he’s an unknown. While the situation in Cleveland wasn’t ideal, we still saw he couldn’t beat out Anderson most seasons, let alone keep the starting job, something Orton was able to do. If he can’t prove himself at camp, why waste games on him.
- As for you comment on Orton not being a proven pro, out of Tebow and Quinn, Orton knows the system the best, is the most stable quarterback and stability on a team is what wins games. Very few teams win by changing their quarterback every season.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on May 12, 2010 3:59 PM MDT up reply actions 8 recs
Yep. Had to rec that, md
Yours too, Brian. Thanks, guys. Facts are useful things, even if they are for geeks :D
Gnothi Seauton
OMG where do you people come from ? Mcdaniels chose the bears because of Orton because he couldve gotten higher picks from washington
If the bears wouldnt have included Orton there wouldnt have been a deal as there was better picks available elsewhere . Josh knew exactly who was getting when he traded for Orton as he said in his February he does not have to worry about Orton being prepared because he knows Kyle will be ready to go .
Brandstater to the practice squad or cut if he’s not eligible.
Orton will start and finish next season, and will come back in 2011 if we make the playoffs. (Depending on his ankles)
Quinn needs remodeling before McDaniel’s flips him for better picks than we gave up. He might get a shot in a game that doesn’t matter to show his new value to the rest of the NFL.
Tebow will be waiting for Orton to mess up big in 2010, and mess up a little bit in 2011. He’ll be starting by 2012, unless Orton is getting to, (probably needs to win) AFC Championship.
"My job description is to win football games. I'm a hard worker. I'm not flashy by any means, but my job is to play football and win and I plan to do that." Kyle Orton
I read the poll incorrectly and thought it was asking who I thought would be starting Week 1...
I don’t really think Tim Tebow will be cut….my bad. :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
:O
Future 2010 MHR Fantasy Football Champion! ;)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
I voted Orton trade before season opener
Why I think a trade is in the air because Broncos will not carry 4-qb’s when they will need more depth at WR and RB to insure who ever the QB is will have the weapons needed to run the new offense. That said here’s my thinking why Quinn, Tebow, and Brandstater will be on the final 53 man roster.
First things first, Tim Tebow is major competition for OTA’s and TC to Orton & Quinn. Even though he is a rookie, a rookie who’s versatility makes him the best fit for McD’s offense. McD won’t rush Tebow to be the starter but rather let him adjust to the NFL along the side lines until he feels he’s ready or due to untimely inujury to the starting QB. [Mid-Season Starter]
The offense will be different than last season [prediction] and requiring QB’s with more mobility than what Orton has to offer its no secret Orton is a pocket / shot gun QB that required him to use way too many dink & dunk passes to avoid the heavy pass pressure. He wasn’t mobile enough to run the complete play book and pretty much limited to passing to Marshall, completely under ultilizing Eddie Royal [a major deficiency]. Both Tebow & Quinn have those physical traits that make them more versatile then Orton.
It was apparent to me that Orton was a short term gap filler after the trade that sent Cutler to the Bears. McDaniels needed a capable QB until he could eventually find his type of QB who could run his play book. It came sooner than expected in Tebow, I also believe this was a long range vison he saw and actualized.
Mr. Bowlen stated prior to the draft he looking for a QB and when Quinn was traded for many of the media and fans alike thought he meant Quinn. But, actually Quinn was Simms replacement and we all know why Simms had to go. The future vision Bowlen was talking about was in the draft that included drafting Tebow. This is pure speculation on my part just my gut instincts on this one.
McDaniels stated to the media after the Quinn trade Orton was the starter and Quinn will add depth and good competition. Orton #1 and Quinn #2 backup and BS #3.
On draft day all those plans changed when Tim Tebow was drafted by Broncos with the 25th pick. Instantly becoming the future face of the Broncos Franchise that Mr. Bowlen was dreaming for and became a reality on April 22nd. We won’t know if Tebow will be anointed as the 2nd coming of John Elway for a few years. But he will be given that opportunity that you can rest assured of for the next few years at least.
Tebow is the future and Quinn is the best option until McD decides Tebow is ready. Quinn is our gap filler – short / long term QB who will remain with Broncos at least two season at very low investment. Who knows he might surprise everyone. My opinion is that Orton won’t be around after this season because of the uncapped year. Orton’s market value during his tender validated his value to other teams who needed a QB during the early off-season.
Tebow & Quinn will both benefit the Broncos for the long hual. Both can help each other like Kubiak & Elway. If Broncos want compensation for Orton then they will trade him before season opener.
oc60
"Do not dwell in the past. Do not dream of the future.
Concentrate the mind on the present moment."
It's a mystery that will only give us closure at the beginning to the season.
Trading Orton would be set back imo and starting an unknown spells disaster. I’m sure McDX is smarter than that.
A competition for Backup QB
between Quinn, Bradstreeter, and Tebow. Orton is the starter. From Josh McDaniels:
"He is our starter. There is no question. Like I said, he started 15-16 games, he did a lot of things to help us win games last year, and again, I’m excited because this is going to be-once April 2 rolls around-this will be his second calendar year in our system. He hasn’t even been here a year. We are looking forward to his improvement and his progress. He is going to know the offense so much better this time around than he did last year. That’s going to give us more flexibility. It’s going to give him more comfort in terms of what he can do at the line of scrimmage, what he can do with his plays, what he can do with his players. I think anytime you have that feeling that you know the offense, you know the players, you know what they are going to do, you know what to expect-I think that’s obviously going to help your performance and I would look for that from Kyle. I would look for that in most of the players in the second year of our system."
Sorry Tebow fans it’s just not going to happen.
by rocko1 on May 12, 2010 7:28 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
I have an honest question for everybody.
I notice there tends to be a pattern where many people have great faith that McD can coach up Tebow, yet many of the same are already dismissing his ability make Quinn a better player. I’m wondering where logic of this is.
It seems to me that Quinn— who admittedly has some accuracy issues— is an obviously superior athlete to Orton. He is also reportedly bright, a hard worker, and competitive. If McD can hypothetically work magic on Orton and Tebow, then why wouldn’t this also apply to Quinn?
It seems that Quinn is being too easily dismissed.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on May 12, 2010 7:37 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
yes
Great points. Extending your arguement one step further dont forget Cassell.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
agreed
Quinn is not going anywhere, its not like anybody is going to pay any more for him than we did, or else they already would have.
by black_knight101 on May 12, 2010 7:51 PM MDT up reply actions
The McD magic
didn’t work so well on Simms. Orton played very good at Purdue and Chicago. The only real difference between the Broncos and Chicago…Orton had more pass attempts and his receivers were able to get open. I agree with you that BQ is a good athelete, but so far that hasn’t made a difference for him. I have only watched him play in a handful of games in the NFL, but he looked good at ND. I like the kid.
This is spot on!
There seems to be the perception that Quinn will not amount to much under McD’s wing. I think he has a much better set of natural tools than Orton and might just give him a good run in the pre-season.
Quinn told the media he planned on competing. McD says he wants good stiff competition. I don’t see how adding Tebow makes as big a difference as everybody thinks. The kid is going to have to sit,….for a while at least.
Should be a good competiton though! Looking forward to seeing if Quinn can get it together and push the ceiling a little higher than Orton has.
Well there in lies the problem PO every says that Josh worked magic on ORTon but what exactly did he do ?
Orton was essentially a 3000 yard 18 td low pick passer who was a heckuva team player and a film room addict when he showed up so what MAGIC did Josh work ? Orton came from a spread offense in college and was a able to work hard enough to convert himself to a 3000 yard passer when most teams felt Qbs from the spreads couldnt make it . Josh put him back in familiar territory and somehow he worked Magic ?
Josh is a great QB coach but wow you guys are giving him way too much credit for Orton last year.
I dont think anyone is saying Josh cant help Quinn become a better QB but I seriously doubt he can make Quinn a better QB than Orton in 8 weeks . The thought of Quinn improving is easily acceptable by pretty much everyone imo but the thought that simply because he is on the team that the same Qb whose offense went 10 straight quarters without an offensive td is immediately better than our own qb who actually had one of the best season in franchise history should be too much for anyone to stomach.
Just way too much hype floating around before he has even taken a snap .
I think the nature of Orton's improvement...
…is largely subjective. You can make solid arguments either way.
My point wasn’t to declare definitively that McD is a QB coaching genius. What I’m trying to understand is why some people apply his hypothetical abilities to their optimism about Tebow/Orton, but give it very little stock on Quinn.
At this point, I can’t say I have my heart set on anybody. I want the best guy to win, and I find it interesting that so many voices I respect seem to view Quinn as almost an after thought. I think looking at it totally objectively— from physical tools to NFL experience/similar system experience (Wiess’s system at ND) through an underwhelming organizational endorsement of Orton— that Quinn appears to have a legitimate chance at being the Broncos starter this year. However, I seem to be very rare in that conclusion.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on May 12, 2010 10:00 PM MDT up reply actions
I dont know how you can say you are looking at it objectively when Quinn has played a level far below our current starting QB in the NFL so far .
What physical tools ? hes been hurt more severely than Orton in his brief NFL career
His NFL experience is that of one of the worst performances of a first rd qb outside of Jamarcus Russell .
What underwhelming endorsement ? the fact that the coach names him a the starter
?
He is our starter. There is no question. Like I said, he started 15-16 games, he did a lot of things to help us win games last year, and again, I’m excited because this is going to be—once April 2 rolls around—this will be his second calendar year in our system. He hasn’t even been here a year. We are looking forward to his improvement and his progress. He is going to know the offense so much better this time around than he did last year. That’s going to give us more flexibility. It’s going to give him more comfort in terms of what he can do at the line of scrimmage, what he can do with his plays, what he can do with his players. I think anytime you have that feeling that you know the offense, you know the players, you know what they are going to do, you know what to expect—I think that’s obviously going to help your performance and I would look for that from Kyle. I would look for that in most of the players in the second year of our system."
Youve elevated Quinn to a level that he has done nothing to deserve . Right now he is no more proven in our ranks than TB is.
No matter how you try and spin it he has no advantage hes played in the NFL and bombed plenty of Qbs do well in college and bomb in the NFl and having nice physical tools doesnt mean anything as the raiders just cut a #1 overall pick .
Its like saying that just because the Bengals sign Russell that he will instantly have a chance of beating out Palmer when there is absolutely nothing to substantiate those claims except HOPE.
I like Brady and i expect him to be a much better QB than he was in Cleveland but right now there is absolutely nothing to substantiate these claims BEFORE HE EVEN HAS TAKEN A SNAP FOR US.
Brady has more to prove than anyone heck he has more to prove than Orton did when he was traded here last year.
Underwhelming endorsement?
How can you possibly conclude that the Broncos are convinced that Orton is the solution at QB after this off season?
You’re missing my whole point on Quinn, by the way. I’m not advocating him. I’m very aware of his struggles in Cleveland. I know some guys never make the transition. Yet around here, the vast majority seems to think that McD can turn Tim Tebow into a starter and discount the idea that he can wave the same magic wand over Quinn. The question is: if people are so confident he can fix Tebow, why are they so equally confident that he can’t fix Quinn? I’m not saying he can or can’t— I’m calling out the double standard— which might be considered a soft way of wondering aloud if some people are emotionally attached to their favorite.
If I didn’t think Orton was my long term QB, and if I thought Tim Tebow was my future QB, and if I wanted to bring Tebow along slowly, then I’d at least take a long hard look at Brady Quinn to warm the seat for a couple of years. Orton doesn’t have the hearts and minds of the fan base, he doesn’t appear to have the hearts and mind of the organization, Quinn at least has some live bullet NFL experience, so I tend to think he’s going to get a hard look. That’s all.
Beyond that, let the best man win.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on May 13, 2010 12:11 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tebow has WAY less problems than Quinn.....Quinn is like Russell....some of those things are going to be VERY hard to fix....
Tebow has way more upside, and his only “problem” are mecahnics, which have been way overblown anyway.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
I believe thats exactly what it is
Regardless of how much we fans like or dislike Orton the easiest conclusion to make is he doenst have the long term hearts and minds of this particular coaching staff. I mentioned earlier that I’ve never seen a team use three draft picks on a QB if they believed the incumbent to be top 10 QB. Can Orton turn in to one sure – i dont think so – but I dont think its going to be in Denver and it certainly isnt from what he showed last year
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
opps
Didnt meant to block quote the whole thing.. early morning jitters
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
On the...
…‘hearts and minds’ issue, one thing that has gotten lost in the wash, is that Denver’s final draft tour started in Austin, TX, with Colt McCoy. McD covers this in one of his draft PC’s. So it wasn’t just a matter of falling head over heals for Tebow. They fully intended to use a premium pick on a QB— either Tebow or McCoy— and Tebow simply won out.
I don’t know any other logical conclusion other than Kyle Orton isn’t nearly as popular inside Dove Valley as he is, on average, at MHR.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on May 13, 2010 7:37 AM MDT up reply actions
I didnt say they were convinced of anything
He is still the starting QB so thats about as strong of an endorsement as they can give him in this situation .
What I quoted was McDaniels comments from AFTER we traded for Quinn. Its so crazy to think that on a team that will have 53 players on it that bringing in one player somehow means he doesnt like another player that plays teh same position .
McDaniel can believe with all his heart that everything in the quote is true and still in the broncos best interest ….
have to bring in a young QB to possibly appease ownership who is very aware that the caps restrictions of this year will put them in a tough position in regards to keeping Orton next year
and that the failure to have a adequate backup which likely cost us a playoff position last year is one area we wanted strengthen.
At some point people need to realize that Ortons success would be just as big of a triumph for McDaniels as Tebow.
People need to stop with the long term long term long term I know what gonna happen in 2011. This is football and a year from now is like a lifetime away.
If you said last year that
Colt Mcoy and Clausen are not 1st rd picks
Delhomme will be in Cleveland
we could get Quinn for Hillis
Campbell would in oak
Jamarcus would be CUT
Mcnabb would be a Redskin
Saints were gonna win the SB(after not even making the playoffs the yer before )
those are drastic changes out of left from a year ago . Now we have everyone here saying that because we took Tebow in the 1st rd his future is somehow locked in while ignoring the fact that we have a coach who everytime the MSM and fans try and tell him what to do has shown he will do whatever he feels is best everyone else be damned.
When you hear Ortons comments about what he needs to work and Joshs expectations it obvious that they had a quite an in depth talk and while I dont think Josh is personally betting for or against Orton and the moves he made was about him doing his job and protecting the team.
I just dont get what kind of endorsement you would expect in this situation .
PO...I agree with you on most things but not on Quinn...
I would suggest everyone go and look at film…either from college or NFL and you will see why I cant buy into him being a starter….ever:
*Average arm.
- Poor pocket presence.
- Happy feet. Throws off back foot.
- Stares down WR’s.
- Very poor accuracy.
- Injury prone.
And NONE of these habits have got any better. When you cant beat out Derek Anderson for the starting job, there is something going on.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
A Quinn proponent...
…might point out that 3 of those are coaching issues, one can be attributed to substandard surrounding personnel, and two sound exactly like Kyle Orton (arm/injury (actually 3 if you throw in ‘poor pocket presence’)).
Just saying, not advocating. I wasn’t exactly dancing on rainbows when we acquired Quinn. He gets the laundry pass, but he is neither my favorite player or my favorite guy. I just think, in the big picture, if you think McD can work miracles— if he’s that good of coach— then you have to apply it across the board. And if you apply it across the board, then Quinn is as good of candidate to improve dramatically as the other two.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on May 13, 2010 7:26 AM MDT up reply actions
Agreed...Quinn is a back up.....he s not going to be HOF in 8 weeks....great post Hoop,
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Orton and Magic
Hoop, I agree that the word ‘magic’ is used far too much. However, how about the word ‘coaching’? Orton pointed out that he’d gotten more in 4 months with Denver than he did in 4 years in Chi. His numbers jumped, and the rest of the team had plenty of problems. There is no clear understanding of where his ceiling is because so far he’s improved a solid amount each year. I tend to expect that same improvement this season simply because he’s managed it each year, and this is the first full year that he’s had the benefit of proper coaching.
Don’t forget that Orton, on his predraft scouting reports, had it written that he should sit for 3-4 years before starting. That ended up being 1-2 games, and he still went 10-5 that year. This is bad? Give us more of that bad, mama. That kind of bad would have gotten us to the playoff each of the last two years.
Orton has been the recipient of a lot of loosely channeled hatred, often from people who either can’t let go of Cutler or who don’t know much about Orton’s history or football in general. You’re not going to change their minds, but facts still help. Nice posts.
Gnothi Seauton
You don't have to hate Orton...
,,,or be ignorant to be skeptical about his future with the Broncos.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on May 13, 2010 6:24 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree, PO
i see his future with Denver as nebulous and perhaps short. I just see that as different from the amount of anger that he’s been the recipient of. It’s often seemed out of line with how he’s played.
As an example, in one game last season he had a poor 1st quarter, but ended the game with a rating in the 100’s (or higher) and we won. From the posts, you’d have thought that he was and had played terrible. That’s more what I’m talking about. You don’t have to hate – or love – Orton to recognize that he’s up against a tough situation, professionally and probably won’t be around unless he’s offered very good money to back-up. . That’s more a matter of fact, I suspect.
I consider it unfortunate because he hasn’t reached his ceiling and may continue to improve, but I also see that his time is likely to be brief. .
Gnothi Seauton
to be fair...
… yes, Orton was HORRIBLE his rookie year, even though he went 10-5. He looked completely unprepared for NFL-level play, and he was a major anchor on that Chicago team from being even better than they were. There is a reason why they benched him absolutely as soon as they possibly could when Grossman got back fromn injury.
But as you said, that fit his scouting report. Everyone knew he was a mutli-year project (sort of like Tebow, who I expect also to suck if started before he’s ready).
Orton in 2008 was a completely different QB than the one I watched as a rookie. I remember turning on a Chicago game in I think ~week 5 expecting to watch some horrific QB play, and being blown away at how sharp Orton looked. He looked like he did for us much of last year, which is a quality, though not elite, NFL starter-caliber QB. That is pretty good, and given he was still just learning a new McD offense, I expect even better in the future.
Well put, cj
He was very different in 2008, very different from that in 2009 and has earned the right to start in 2010. What he does then should dictate his future. Part of my expects to lose him after that, and with the progress that he’s making in a new everything, that may be a shame.
Gnothi Seauton
My question for the people who voted for Orton:
Why not cut Brandstater and hope he clears waivers (which he probably will) and then put him on the PS? Since he was never active last year, he can go on the PS.
I can see the argument for trading Orton if someone overpays for him, but he’s realistically not going to bring in much since he is a FA next year. Unless McD is in love with BOTH Quinn and Tebow, we should keep him. Its not like he is expensive. He would be a pretty good starter and a very good backup for us next year.
by black_knight101 on May 12, 2010 7:45 PM MDT reply actions
Orton wants a big contract
I seriously doubt Orton will play back up to either Quinn or Tebow. I don’t see any good in having Quinn or Orton as the scout team quarterback. Very few 3rd string QB’s become starters.
oc60
"Do not dwell in the past. Do not dream of the future.
Concentrate the mind on the present moment."
It's likely that one of the three will stumble and underperform expections in TC/preseason, making the decision easy.
So the best thing is to wait and see how it plays out. Otherwise we risk having one of the guys we keep be the guy that stumbles and we’re stuck with him.
Also, I think if Brandstater is waived he will be claimed by another team trying to run a NE offense who is thinner at QB and needs a 2nd or 3rd QB.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=drink+the+kool-aid
Yup
Future 2010 MHR Fantasy Football Champion! ;)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
There is some truth to this, however,
I don’t know any better way than to create competition at a spot to create that ascension in terms of every player’s level of play. -Josh McDaniels
does this mean he keeps drafting #1 round qbs if Tebow doesn’t show is potential asap. NO. TT is his guy, Orton isn’t. These statements, although nessacary, are old news. Having four QBs means we don’t have one. Not yet. And McD is showed his face by drafting TT, saying Orton isn’t the answer.
In my humble opinion... just that an opinion....
I think that IF someone was going to be traded it would be Quinn… I think that Quinn still holds that “Well he played in Cleveland” thing you know where football players go to die. Everyone is still up on Quinn being able to do something… “he is young, smart, athletic. 1st round pick (and you never give up on those) etc.” and I think that he will be better trade bait than Orton… but in our complicated system Orton is a better option playbook wise in my opinion.
I think that Orton is gonna start all year and have the chance to play for someone else next year. I think that Quinn was insurance IF we didn’t get Tebow and TB was gonna be the back up to either one of them next year and beyond. But we GOT TT, like it or not, so Quinn is expnedable. Just my idea…
We are who we knew we were!
by bornorangenblue on May 12, 2010 10:16 PM MDT reply actions
I voted Quinn
The two best QBs on the team right now are Orton and Brandstater. They have knowledge of what McD expects to run the offense, and are looking to switch to a higher gear.
Tebow is a rookie and has much to learn, so he’s a near automatic #3 on the depth chart – which makes Quinn the odd man out. While we can’t rule out the possibility of carrying 4 QBs on the roster this season, I believe if there is a QB that may get traded before the trade deadline, it’s Quinn.
He hasn’t shown much in the NFL unfortunately, he’s been away from the spread offense for over 3 years, and will be facing an uphill battle in TC. With teams already showing interest, there may be a market for him this summer. But even if McD is willing to trade him, I doubt he’ll do it any earlier than the conclusion of TC, since that’ll benefit the competition at the position.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
The Denver Tebows
I’ve been away from the news for a few minutes so I may have missed it. Has the team made the official announcement it was changing to the Denver Tebow’s yet? The unofficial rumor is the horse is out and the new symbol will be a pair of hands in prayer.
Fire up Tebows fire up!!
They say some people never go crazy.... what a boring life that must be!!
Play Makers Please
Orton is not a play maker, he is a play it safe kind of guy, which won’t lose you the game, but also won’t win you the game either….
while the jury is still out on Tebow and Quinn, we know they have potential to be play makers, unlike Orton. If I had to choose I would prefer to trade away Orton and keep Tebow and Quinn on potential alone.
That being said…. keep them all to boost the competition and make them all better for it. What are we going to get for any of these quarterbacks anyway?… Quinn we got for basically a 6th round pick, don’t think we are getting much more if that in return…. and maybe a 5th for Orton?… doubt it makes much sense to move up into the 1st round to get Tebow, giving up 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round choices, then only to trade him away… not even sure why he’s a choice, cause “in my opinion” it will never happen this year… maybe down the road if he does bust, but definetly not this year…
that being said i’d have to say Brandstater is probably the odd man out, probably not going to get compensation for him though… he’ll probably be released in training camp sometime, maybe signed to the practice squad.
Sorry Jeremy...anyone...and I repeat ANYONE that has Brady Quinn rated above Kyle Orton must not watch football....I am guess32 out of 32 Head coaches would take Orton over Quinn a 100% of the time.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Nice try...
…using that logic, 31 teams wouldn’t take Tebow, either. Does this mean that they’re right? Oh, please. Of course not. [And, BTW, that “32 out of 32” and “100%” guessing deal that you used here…it comes pretty close to being what’s known in debate circles as argumentum ad numerum, which research shows is nothing more than one of the fallacies of logic. It’s a good thing that you prefaced this as your guess; otherwise, you might have been called on it, I’m reasonably certain.]
Brandstater needs more time to develop,
isn’t going to be valuable to any team on an active roster. He will be cut and signed to the practice squad.
To answer your questions directly...
…my vote went to Tom Brandstater for being the quarterback to be either traded or cut before the season opener. After casting my vote, I saw from the current poll that most people actually agree with this assessment, but I’ll explain my reason anyway.
Of all four quarterbacks, Brandstater, quite frankly, has the least upside, and since most of you here are at least as knowledgeable about the football resumes of these four quarterbacks, you don’t need me to draw this out for you. It just goes without saying, and as the current poll shows, most of you already have a sixth-sense about this, anyway.
Can't vote in these polls...no offense intended, but
it’s just way too early. Not enough facts to base a pick on….this is crystal ball stuff at this point.
I understand that opinions either way can make for a fune back and forth, but it’s really pointless until the competition Josh wants actually begins…
OK with that said, Sgt. Hulka is telling me to lighten up so I’ll gaze into my crystal ball and make a prognostication….we keep them all.
Wasn’t that anti-climactic! LOL
Future 2010 MHR Fantasy Football Champion! ;)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
I disagree...
…there is more than enough information about each quarterback, including on the official Denver Broncos website, for anyone to be able to give a reasonably educated opinion or guess if they really wanted to. Besides, how many facts are needed before giving a basic opinion, anyway? ;-)
Brandstater
Brandstater was a little mini project for QB fixer upper guru McDaniels. He saw a few similar qualities of Tom Brady and Matt Cassel in him so he picked him up late in a weak draft. He now has 3 more talented quarterbacks and really has no need for another long term project as he already has a couple of those.
Quinn played in Cleveland…let me say that again “HE PLAYED IN CLEVELAND!”
-Throwing to butter fingers Braylon Edwards
-Throwing to ____________ (you name the rest of the receiving corps)
-Handing off to Jamal Lewis and _______
-Playing behind a spotty offensive line
-Playing for Mangini :S
-PLAYING FOR THE CLEVELAND BROWNS
In my opinion…gotta give the guy SOMEWHAT the benefit of the doubt. Not saying he is the answer at all, but surround anybody with good players and they can possibly blossom.
Played in Cleveland
True. He didn’t have the greatest supporting cast or coaching. Look at Steve Young, when he was with the Bucs he looked terrible. Goes to the Niner’s and he becomes a HOFer.
Think there is any hope for Jamarcus Russel?
by Manwhoknewtoolittle on May 15, 2010 10:49 PM MDT up reply actions
Kyle Orton
I am surpised everyone thought Brandstater would get traded from the results of the survey.Brandstater has no real trade value considering he really has not done anything on the field. Kyle Orton is far more trade value and can offered to a team as a solid back-up Quarterback. I would still keep Orton around as a solid back-up for the Broncos and try and develop one of these new young QB’S into a starter. The Cleveland Browns Failed Brady Quinn, Brady Quin did not fail the Cleveland Browns. The Browns did not supply this guy with any talent to work with on offense and that included the coaching staff.The Bronco’s future depends on one of these young guys developing into a solid starter.
Be careful because your words may become your character.
by believeandtrust on May 13, 2010 10:50 AM MDT reply actions
traded or cut...
I expect him to be cut… though if he clears waivers I could see him put on the PS.
Orton is a solid top-20 NFL QB… any team would love to have him as a backup, but they’d be doing so knowing after his 1 year contract is up, he’ll likely be moving on to a place where he can compete for a starting gig. Therefore his trade value is mitigated as a 1 year rental unless that team also expects him to compete for their starting gig.
If we are talking about a trade...
….then it would have to be Orton, would it not? We will obviously keep Tebow after the price we paid to get him, and who else has any trade value? I didn’t see any teams lined up to bid on BQ when the Browns were shopping him, and TB would certainly not generate any offers. KO, on the other hand, is a proven starter and a great team player, so I could see some interest there if he were made available.
Now is not the time, though, unless a team comes forward with a strong offer. Wait until training camp and see how things shape up, both for us and other teams. Give BQ, TB, and TT a chance to show their stuff, and give other teams, Buffalo or the Jags for example, time to realize that they don’t have a viable starter on their roster, or for someone to go down with an injury. By then, we will know if we can do without KO, and some team may be desperate enough to give us decent picks in exchange.
I just hope that IF this happens KO goes to a team where he can have a future as a starter. IMO, he has earned it.
OH LAWDY!
Now I might be mistaken but I don’t recall that while Kyle was at Chicago teams were knocking down the door at the Bears front office to deal for Kyle Orton. But that was not Kyle’s fault. The Bears organization has never really had success at the QB position, in fact, it is the “Black Hole” for QBs in the NFL. Name one Bears QB that any other NFL team ever coveted. And there in lies Orton’s dilemma.
He had a good record at Chicago but because Chicago is about defense and the running game he was never recognized for the contribution he made. The biggest favor the Bears did for him was to trade him to Denver. Here he got to showcase his ability and, as KB stated, his 1st year was “not too shabby”.
Now I will admit I have always been an Orton supporter ever since he made his NFL debut. And no matter what you think he was not responsible for the Broncos 2nd half ’09 collapse. In fact, except for a few instances when he pressed to try to put the team on his back to try to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat (ie, the Colts game, when he outperformed Manning), he played as steady and consistently well as any other Bronco on offense or defense.
IMHO, it would be a mistake to ever let Kyle get away. 1st, the Broncos would not get a lot for Kyle because he has not had the opportunity to really show what he can do with an offensive minded organization for any length of time. Although his stock may have risen as a result his ‘09 season I believe he is still perceived to be a back up albeit a good one. He has a great team player attitude and is coach-able. And he is a winner. I’m not saying he is the franchise but in the short term he gives the Broncos the best chance of winning now. But say Tebow or Quinn wins the QB competition for the starting spot I would still want Kyle in the wings in case of injury to the starter. Or, if Tebow or Quinn turned out to be a bust, Kyle could be counted on to step in to attempt to salvage what would be left of the season. Just saying.
by Manwhoknewtoolittle on May 14, 2010 9:21 PM MDT reply actions
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