MHR University - Defensive Line Substitutions

Informative and Concise. Thanks.

If I have all my facts straight, Rich Tuten’s system for getting our players in shape was more geared towards endurance. For example, a group of guys went to Red Rocks last off-season and ran the stairs for a while.

This year, I believe Tuten is focusing the training more on power, strength, and explosion. At least that’s why I think I remember hearing somewhere, I’m sure someone else will either correct my thoughts or elaborate on them. This focus on strength and power makes more sense to me from a football standpoint than putting the focus on pure endurance. Endurance is certainly important, and never to be ignored, but there are different kinds of endurance, in my mind.

I was a competitive soccer player. Obviously, in that sport, training to get in shape involves running, running some more, and more running. Very little attention is paid to power and explosion. Why? Because that’s how the game flows. You sprint often in soccer, but you are also moving fairly constantly while on the field, you go from sprint, to jog, to jog, to sprint, to sprint, to stand, to jog, to sprint. You need to be capable of moving constantly, hence that type of endurance training.

In football, things are more start and stop. The flow of the game dictates the type of training. You can spend 15 minutes at a time on the sideline while the other position groups are on the field. When you are playing, it’s start, go 100% for likely under 10 seconds, stop. And then do it again a couple times, with breaks between. This type of game needs to be trained for differently than a more pure endurance sport. This is why I am excited about the new training regimen Tuten is bringing. You train the way the game is played, in my opinion. Football players should be trained to be able to start, go hard, stop, and then do it over and over again. That’s not to say some long distance type endurance training shouldn’t be implemented, but I do think it should be done differently.

I got to rambling there, but those are just my uneducated thoughts on the matter.

I always appreciate your kind words

…I think it was about nickel formations. Stand by…

The offense may try to snap too quick (to catch the defense), but not be set themselves. For example, the OL may not be down in their stances, there may not be the right number of offensive players on the field, or there may not be the required number of players on the line.

There is an odd exception though. I once saw a pro play where the offense tried to snap the ball before a defensive lineman could get back to his position from the end of the last play. The DLman tried to jump through the OL to get back to his position. The officials ruled (if my memory is correct) that the QB was responsible for unsportsman like conduct. I don’t recall if it was because he couldn’t get through the OL quick enough, or if it was because the defensive player has to have a reasonable amount of time to run to his position. There was no substitution on the play however.

The problem comes down to four areas.

1. Is the endurance training good enough?
2. Are the players being properly rotated?
3. Are the players comfortable enough in their system that they aren’t losing a lot of energy to wasted movement (players waste a lot of muscle power when they are confused)?
4. Are the players staying “warmed up”?
5. Is the system being used vulnerable to no huddles?

The coaching staff should be aware that we were gassed last year many times, even with the altitude advantage. It is reasonable to assume that this will be addressed in training this year.

My thoughts on your study…

At work, if a bad guy throws a punch at me he throws that punch at a given speed. Because I am hyped up to block that punch, I imagine that I exert even more of an effort to be fast. I have more to lose getting punched than the other guy has to gain by throwing his fastest punch. I believe that “fear” motivates the reaction movement to be slightly faster (otherwise, nobody would ever be able to block blows). That’s only my guess though. I’m not a police defensive tactics expert, nor a gunslinger.

I have heard that when NFL coaches calculate DL and OL reaction time, they use .02 seconds routinely as a constant. Nice to see a study where that info is corroborated!

Good to hear from ya!

…can afford to sub WRs for different play packages. The defense can’t afford to put a lesser player on any play. It is like the saying about counter terrorism – The bad guys can make mistakes, but we can’t make afford even one. If the offense misses a first down, its really not a big deal in the scheme of an entire game. But if a defense gives up a big play, it is po9ints on the board.

A worn down opponent can’t beat you, regardless of his talent.

All the best to you!

creates a lot of competition and gives us more options, as well as a better rotation.

Pre-season looks at individuals (not wins and losses) will tell us a lot.

for many years. It’s astounding how much the science of endurance training has changed. Would love to see your post.

Em was just talking in another thread about WRs needing endurance over burst in their routes.

So many applications for the idea!

Two gap schemes typicaly wear down a DL quicker than one gap. This may be because 2 gappers are bigger guys.

It may be counter-intuitive, but attacking LB schemes wear down LBs at a lesser rate than schemes where the LBs play man or zone. I recall learning this, and am unsure as to why that is. I can only guess that it requires more energy to cover a zone or man an opponent (because of direction changes and concentration) than it does to just bull ahead in a blitz. Hoenestly I don’t know why.

For DBs, zoning is less strenuous than man coverage.

And yes, how tired the guys are getting plays a big factor in what schemes are run during long drives. You are right (as always).

: )

I like the players we’ve brought in, and I think we have some good, young guys to rotate in. But I agree with you that we really need to start seeing some more youth at DL and DB.

endurance is lost very quickly, like within 2 weeks. So even if you show up to spring training able to do 4 mi under 30 min you still have to keep working on it every week. Use it or lose it.

…I’m in the camp that firmly believes altitude DOES affect professional level performance. Perhaps there is no better proof than the US Olympic Training Center, which is purposefully based in Colorado Springs because of the altitude.

..it is beautiful to behold when done well, and causes jealousy from the opposing fans (us). But the simple truth is, a lot goes into whether it can be effective for a particular team. Take the Broncos; we ought to have a QB at the helm for more than a couple of years in a row to make it work well.

…Good to see you again old friend!

Steve

Thanks BB!

…that rattles the Indy offense. A team MUST get to Manning. Even if you shut down the run portion of Indy’s play action / timed passing program, Manning is just too dominant.

To be honest, I don’t think our program will match up well with Indy in terms of pass rush. I think our DBs are elite enough to cover any receivers, but I don’t see our line as being a “blitz from inside” dominant force. I think that outside guys (like Doom) have a shot at Manning, but we need to get Manning out of the pocket, not trapped inside it.

I think we need to bump and run to break up the timed patterns, and try to get some disruption on the interior of the line. I don’t think either of these approaches will be be Denver’s bread and butter approaches.

Note that I’m not saying we can’t beat Indy. I’m just saying that the stylistic match-up isn’t the best for us.

I would be interested to know if there is any connection. I mean this would make total sense because there is a part of me that is still baffled that we finished 8-8 after starting 6-0.

there’s in-game endurance and season long endurance. A player may be in shape to play a full game without getting gassed. But each game takes its toll. If you haven’t played in the trenches, at the HS level or above, you cannot believe how beat up you feel after a game. Hopefully you heal and recover completely before the next game, but frequently that doesn’t happen. Starters get injured; backups take their place putting a greater burden on the remaining starters. The wear and tear increases and a week just isn’t long enough to completely recover. By the end of the season they’re just worn out.

Marcus Thomas commented on how physically worn out he was by season end. That’s why quality depth, on both sides of the line, is so critical. Your team should ideally be constructed to survive a 19 or 20 game death death march with all the expected injuries. Otherwise you should expect to fade in the end.

…and it is ONLY an opinion, is that the players were mentaly fatigued. New coaches, new QB, new systems, an early up season then the collapse, the off field antics (and some on field) by Marshall and others (and some we probably didn’t hear about)… It was a lot for the team to go through. Add in a high energy young coach to the mix (not a bad thing) and the team just seemed to be tired.

I think that we have cleared out a lot of the problems from last year, and many of the key people on the team have a year under their belts. I look for our team to improve this year – nothing dramatic, but improvement.

The offense must line at least 7 players on the line of scrimmage. They could line up as many as 10 if they wanted though only the two on the ends of the line would be eligible receivers.

The defense can line up 11 or zero on the LOS. You will sometimes see teams line up with as few as two in a prevent situation, but zero, while legal, would be pointless.

The rule was originally instituted in the early 1900s. Prior to that offenses would line up half their team in the backfield and charge the line in a flying wedge. Rules were changed after several players died.

1) There is no rule about which stance must be used. A player on the DL may go 3 or 4.

3 pt Advantages – better for balance and gaining leverage over an opponent.
4 pt Advatnages – good for rushing / assists the rusher with getting his “hands over the pads”.

3 pt Disadvantages – Injury concerns (see here), and a little harder to adjust to offensive blockers coming from both sides.
4 pt Disadvantages – Slower stance to come out of.

2) The second I decided a substitution would be made (often the previous play), I toldl an assistant who I wanted. The call goes to that player(s), and they run to my side. I told them who to pull, and as soon as the play whistles, they hit the field to sub.

In most cases, the players on the field know who is coming off based on who is coming on. But in many cases, it is as simple as the player being “tagged” as the new player arrives to the group.

There should be enough time to sub, since defenses don’t try to sub during a no-huddle.

Also, if a player is running onto the field and sees the defense forming up, that is the signal to come back. The defense will form up if the offense switches into hurry up. We’d rather miss the substitution than take the penalty.

…make any time and effort on my part very, very worth the while. Thank you!

There’s no substitute for any of the great sections / writers / members of MHR. You rock!