Throwing the "Challenge Flag" on Broncos Perceptions
by TJ Johnson on May 5, 2010 11:43 AM MDT
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PrintIn the NFL in 2009, coaches were only successful using instant replay for challenges 32% of the time. While throwing those red (or sometimes pink) flags are good exercise for the rotator cuff, they don't often result in overturning a call on the field.
Perhaps if they struck a Raiders fan they would be of more use.
Given the long odds of overturning a call, I thought I would throw my own challenge flag on six comments I've heard in the media over the last week. While the odds of me changing your mind might be long, someone's got to try it. And I've only to convince you on two of these challenges to beat the league average.
So let's hit the jump, and don't let these flags put your eye out.
1. Jarvis Green joined the Broncos because he likes the way Josh McDaniels fist pumps.
Green made quite the splash when he signed with the Broncos on March 9th and had this to say:
"The last thing I remember was him giving the fist pumps after the game, and I saw that and saw the energy and saw the players playing for him. Everyone wants to play for a coach like that," Green said. "For me, I was in New England for all that time, and I was ready to move on, period. Just watching Josh on the sideline, I was like, I want to feel that too."
If this sort of quote doesn't get you pumped, you could be named JaMarcus Russell. And I'm sure Green is sincere about his feelings for McDaniels. However, let's get real. Green is most excited because his deal is worth $20 million over four years, with a $2.5 million signing bonus and $7.5 million guaranteed over the first two years. For a 31-year old end with 3 sacks in his last 26 games, that's a good haul--good enough for a fist pump.
Still, I appreciate a guy who sounds more like a fan than the actual fans. Mr. Green, you can stand right behind Mr. Dawkins and I won't mind one bit. We need more of these guys--sincere or otherwise.
2. The future of Alphonso Smith is in jeopardy.
If you define your future the way Rod Smith did during his Broncos career, then yeah, Alphonso's job is on the line. However, Josh McDaniels recently had this to say about his former 2nd-round draft pick after the Broncos picked up nickel corner Nathan Jones from Miami:
"Doesn't change a thing. We have high expectations for all of our young players. Nathan Jones is a player we felt could come in and improve our competition and depth...I don't think you can have enough competition at any spot and I think Nathan is going to come in with a great attitude and Alphonso is working hard. It is year two for a lot of our players and we expect definite improvement in a lot of areas."
The Broncos have already paid Smith the biggest portion of his salary under his 4-year deal ($2.15 signing bonus), so keeping him around from a monetary standpoint isn't that difficult. And despite the signing of Ty Law in 2009 and Jones in the most recent free agent period, and despite the drafting of Perrish Cox and Syd'Quan Thompson in this year's draft, the Broncos aren't giving up on Smith. They're just not taking Smith's development as a given. Jones, who signed a four-year contract worth $4.2 million, with a $1 million signing bonus, is of particular note. His base salary over the next several years is larger than Smith's as well, so the money is a good indication of how the Broncos view their nickel situation.
But let's not get too carried away. Thompson was drafted primarily as a return guy, and the Broncos starting corner backs are a combined 62 years old. They are one Vincent Jackson dig-route away from injury. And in a league in which team's winning percentage correlates highest statistically to yards-per-pass, you simply can never have enough corner backs. Never ever? Yes, never ever...ever. If Tim Tebow can play cornerback, I say put him on the depth chart, too.
3. Eddie Royal has to pick up Brandon Marshall's slack.
While Royal needs to play better, he doesn't have to play out of his mind for the Broncos to be successful. Royal is likely going to be used in the slot in 2010 and taken off return duty. As McDaniels indicated in recent conversations, Royal played exclusively at the X-receiver spot (think split-end) in 2009, and in 2010, he plans on moving Royal more often to the Z and Y spots (flanker and slot). So Royal is going to have more space which with to work at the line of scrimmage. Even though Mike Shanahan told us in 2008 that Royal was the best WR in the draft at beating press coverage, we know different from 2009. Royal is a guy that needs to get the ball in space. Moving him to the flanker and slot should accomplish just that. Thus, Royal is headed for a 60-to-70 catch season. Not amazing, but decent.
I'm more concerned with Jabar Gaffney. Until Bay-Bay Thomas and Eric Decker truly heal, and Thomas learns to run routes, Gaffney is going to be on display. This will force Gaffney to prove that last year's performance against team's like the Chiefs wasn't just a demonstration of his ability to dominate 3rd-string corner backs. Gaffney's early-season performance could go a long way in determining the Broncos success.
4. Kyle Orton is going to end the season as Denver's starting QB.
I become more convinced each day that Orton's days will last until about mid-season. Call it a gut instinct. Call it a man-crush on Brady Quinn. Or simply judge McDaniels by his actions. McDaniels simply doesn't trade for Brady Quinn and amortize draft picks on Tim Tebow in the 1st round if he's feeling comfortable with Orton at the helm.
As I said last week, McDaniels has three years left on his contract, and there are people out there saying Tim Tebow is a 2-3 year project. If this logic is true, McDaniels just drafted a guy, who, if the Broncos are not successful in the next two years, McDaniels won't even be able to get on the field to coach.
The truth is that McDaniels knows he's probably got 2 more years to prove to Broncos fans and Pat Bowlen that he's the real deal. That's 32 games. You think that a guy who pulled the trigger on the Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall trades is going to hesitate to start Quinn or Tebow at quarterback if Orton struggles in the least?
Unfortunately, Orton is in a tough situation and he's not reading a choose-your-own-adventure book. He almost has to impersonate Drew Brees if he wants to come out of this on the other side. If he struggles early in the year, the fanbase will immediately jump ship for Quinn, or more likely, for Tebow, and we'll all be riding our hover boards back to the future (2006).
Doubt this? See Phillips, Wade. Guy went 16-16 in 2 years and Bowlen pulled the trigger. Are you thinking he's going to give McDaniels 4 years of .500 football? In the words of former Bronco Brandon Marshall, "it's a business." And in Pat Bowlen's business, breaking even doesn't cut it.
5. The Broncos are in trouble because they didn't draft a nose tackle.
Yes, I wanted the Broncos to draft Dan Williams, I'm not going to lie. But just because they didn't, it doesn't mean they are going to struggle this year. As many have pointed out, including here in a piece I wrote called Every Rose Has It's Thorn...Life After Mike Nolan in January, the weakness in Denver's line last year was the left side (think Kenny Peterson). Here's what I wrote back then:
After six games, however, the novelty wore off and the run defense crumbled. In the last third of the season, if you really wanted to gash the Broncos, you ran to the left side of the line. Here you would find the worst three run defenders on the Broncos defense: Kenny Peterson, Elvis Dumervil, and D.J. Williams. Once teams figured this out, they worked the left side like a nervous tick. Even the Chiefs and the always-combustible Oakland Raiders figured this formula out. In the last two divisional games, K.C. and Oakland ran the ball over the left guard-center on 42% of their rush attempts, averaging almost 9 yards per carry. Without beating a dead Bronco, there is a reason Brian Dawkins led the team in solo tackles this year aside from the fact that he is immortal. As any coach can tell you, if you are running a 5-2 defense and a defensive back is leading the team in solo tackles, you've got some big-time problems.
The Broncos have since let Peterson go. And with the additions of Justin Bannan and Jamal Williams, there is a lot of reason for hope. Also, since the Broncos didn't draft a nose tackle, one has to believe that Chris "Shake 'N Bake" Baker is getting into the lineup this year and causing problems for the opposition.
So the concern isn't at nose tackle. For me it's at the right defensive end. Specifically, I'm concerned about Jarvis Green's run-stop abilities. He was pulled out of the Patriots game last year for his failure to stop the run against the Ravens. If you were running against the Broncos on first down, who would you attack in a front consisting of Justin Bannan, Jamal Williams, and Jarvis Green? I'm sure Raiders fans will choose Jamal Williams, so at least we've narrowed down the choices.
6. Without Ryan Clady, the Broncos are doomed.
If Clady doesn't make it back for the first quarter of the season, the Broncos will be fine. Sure, Clady made the Pro-Bowl last year, but let's look ourselves in the mirror. First, the left tackle position is slightly overrated. Second, at times Clady struggled just as mightily with the power-blocking scheme as the rest of the line. The tape doesn't lie, and neither do the numbers. I've put this table up before, but since there are so many new readers to MHR each week, it's worth putting up again. These are the expected points the Broncos "received" when they ran behind each lineman in 2009:
| Play | Lineman | Count | Avg. EPV Value | Play | Lineman | Count | Avg. EPV Value |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Run | Ryan Clady | 54 | 0.072740741 | Run | Tyler Polumbus | 32 | -0.1238125 |
| Run | Ben Hamilton | 26 | 0.209423077 | Run | Russ Hochstein | 12 | 0.242083333 |
| Run | Casey Weigmann | 131 | -0.10829771 | Run | |||
| Run | Chris Kuper | 42 | 0.16252381 | Run | |||
| Run | Ryan Harris | 19 | 0.415368421 |
Yes, Clady is one of the best left tackles in the game today--specifically against the pass. But let's not act as if he's Anthony Muñoz just yet. He wasn't as devastating as you've red in the running game, and his EPV value demosntrates this. Denver will compensate for him until he gets back, and with all of the new "carne" they´ve drafted up front, I would expect a commitment to the running game early in the year.
So there you have it. Have a great Wednesday. Now that I've used up all of my challenge flags, move out of the way so I can get a clean shot at that Raiders fan sitting in the South Stands.
Go Broncos!
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Great points
Concerning not drafting Dan Williams (or passing on a guy like Cam Thomas all the way to the 5th round), hopefully it just means that he thinks Baker can really make a big impact next year and in the future. We’ll see.
by black_knight101 on May 5, 2010 11:48 AM MDT reply actions
Thanks, BK , for the points. I am still down a tad for not grabbing Williams
but I roll with the Orange and Blue.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Yeah I thought we wanted Williams too
but it could just be that we already have our NT of the future
by black_knight101 on May 5, 2010 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions
let's hope. I have to come to grips with the Thomas pick!!!
Although the MHR faithful have been kind enough to try and convince me the guy can be Marshall and more…
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
just remember that correlation causation thing though :)
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on May 5, 2010 4:27 PM MDT up reply actions
I found this on Rotoworld
This can’t be true:
Broncos traded up with the Patriots to select Georgia Tech WR Demaryius “Bay Bay” Thomas with the No. 22 overall pick.
New England moves down two spots to No. 24 and picks up an extra fourth-round pick (No. 122) as the Dez Bryant slide continues. A game-breaking playmaker and destructive, bone-crushing crack-back blocker, Thomas gives Josh McDaniels his new Randy Moss. At 6-foot-3, 230 pounds with sub-4.4 speed and a 25.1 yards per catch average as a fourth-year junior, Thomas projects as immediate vertical help. Assuming quick development and good health, he’ll be a threat to lead Denver in receiving yardage this year.
230lb WITH 4.4 speed AND a great blocker?
Dude.
Just dude.
Why does Madden suck at ranking the Broncos so much?
Didn't Dallas select at 23?
The move might have been made (2 spots up) if they felt Dallas was going to select Thomas over Bryant. Other than that there was no reason for the Broncos to move and lose the 4th rd pick. That is an interesting point and with Jerry Jones on the phone acting all happy and everything…And then when the camera was off he probably was cussing and throwing things around the room! Priceless!
The only way I see how McDX knew is if they have a spy in Dallas...Unless a team called McDX and told them.
Of course there is the logical solution that the media threw out there…Belichick juked his young pupil…
I don't think he was juked
I figure one of two things happened:
1. McX were high on Bay Bay and whilst moving back moved behind a team that could have taken him so they coughed up the 4th to go get their guy and not risk it.
2. Spais
Why does Madden suck at ranking the Broncos so much?
I will try to find the article/source, it said that Baltimore had intentions of moving up to draft Thomas. Once Denver picked Thomas, Baltimore decided to move back into the 2nd round.
by Auz on May 5, 2010 5:59 PM MDT up reply actions
No Juke
New England probably came to Denver and said that they weren’t going to pick there and either Denver can give a 4th rounder to move up and lock in the guy they want or NE is going to trade with some other potential partners who may take the guy Denver wants.
Easy call really.
How do you keep the Broncos Humble?
"Just show them the film. Show them the film." - Josh McDaniels
Christian, good stuff. I'm coming to grips with this pick with stuff like this.
Just keep repeating!
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Oh man if this guy works out...
I’ll be SO happy.
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 5, 2010 7:02 PM MDT up reply actions
holding my breath here too
really wanted williams. This is one area that could make McX’s draft look better right off. …If we can stop the run, I’ll feel better about drafting WR/QB …a little bit.
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 5, 2010 2:07 PM MDT up reply actions
CHRIS BAKER is going to suprise a lot of experts this year!
McD spoke highly of this guy last year as an UFA. After 1 year, I am expecting additional improvement, and Jamal Williams (even though I am very excited to see him play for the blue and orange) is prone to injury and will most likely only play 60-70% of the snaps anyway. Baker and Fields will alternate as 2nd string backing up Williams at first, with Baker taking full control of the 2nd string slot by mid season.
Defensive end
I seem to remember reading reports that both Marcus Thomas and Chris Baker were moving to the DE position this year. If so, then Jarvis Green might be more of a backup, and our defensive line will have some serious “carne” on the outside.
Good point, IT. I would love to see if Baker can play end.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Thomas is definitely moving to end.
There’s been a lot of speculation that Baker could play end, and McD may have mentioned something about it in one of his pressers.
by black_knight101 on May 5, 2010 12:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Thomas as DE but Baker should be a NT!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
by boydy2669 on May 5, 2010 2:16 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree, but...
…one report stated that Baker was slimming down to around 300 lbs because they had asked him to move to DE. I can’t corroborate that, though. I do remember when he was drafted that he had played DE some in college, and he certainly is athletic enough.
I think it was Thomas
I heard he is slimming down to play DE.
by OrangeBroncos on May 5, 2010 2:51 PM MDT up reply actions
That was Thomas I believe.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
I think it was Thomas also, but heck, if Baker can get to 295, he would be excellent
against the running game.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Defensive End Contd.
I heard Marcus Thomas talked to McD about conveting to DE to stay on the team and see more playing time. I don’t remember seeing anything about Baker though.
What if you had a 3-4 defense, and used 3 DT on the line? This would certainly require a couple of double teams, leaving the LBs free to make plays, tackle against the run and 1-2 could pretty consistently have an uncontested blitz if it’s a pass.
Think about it, a rotation of Jamal Williams, Chris Baker, Ronald Fields, Marcus Thomas, and lets say Justin Bannan. (In this scenario, having a guy like Dan Williams would be really nice!)
That was reported on this site, but when I requested a source, none was available
McDaniels was clear that Baker is going to play NT this year. Marcus Thomas has lost weight and is trying to start at DE – probably right DE.
Gnothi Seauton
ROFL
TJ….You never cease to amaze this displaced Bronco fan with your writing. seriously….Does Bena pay you enough? Oh….you do this for free because you love MHR and the Denver Broncos? AMAZED AGAIN!!!
With your clever pop-culture references and keene eye for stats…..you are one wise dude.
Stay cool.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
by DenBronx on May 5, 2010 12:00 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
DenBrox, where are you at again. I hope not too far away!
Pop Culter….that creep can roll, man.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
DC Brotha!
The good old NoVa.
I get to see our boys every once in a while….though my gramps gets season tickets…..I CAN"T EVEN USE THEM!!! lol
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
I'll have to remember this when I get out your way.
In the last two weeks I have been in Vegas and Seattle. I should make sure I figure out where all the MHR readers are.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Most Def!
If you are out this way during the season I know a great Bronco Bar
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
Whidbey is Puget sound.... missed ya dude.
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 5, 2010 4:12 PM MDT up reply actions
The same thought occurred to me
TJ isn’t gettin’ paid enough.
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on May 5, 2010 10:15 PM MDT up reply actions
left side weakness
I spent over 30 years in the coaching profession and love direct TV’s DVR and so I recorded each game and graded DJ Williams, when teams figured out if you run right at DJ and don’t bother blocking him, he might make the tackle but it was always for a big game or a first down. Especially in the red zone he would be unblocked and ended up in the endzone on his back as the RB ran over him. He is indeed a weak side LB in all sense of the word. Study him and you will be as frustrated as I am. DJ Williams is the most overrated LB in the NFL.
by kimo526 on May 5, 2010 12:06 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Kimo, I agree with that actually. If you look at the quote from my previous stuff
you can see the implication of DJ. That’s not a popular topic, but it’s true. He’s not a tackle-shedding MLB. He’s got to be freed up to run from side to side.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
lets give him a chance
maybe now that he’ll be playing the same position for the 2nd year in a row for the first time in his career, he’ll do better.
by black_knight101 on May 5, 2010 12:13 PM MDT up reply actions
agree with blacknight.
it didn’t help that peterson gave him not protection up front and Doom sucked against the run. Hopefully dumervil will get better and Bannan is definitely an upgrade over peterson. let’s watch him with some protection from a decent line before we declare that he’s awful.
by bailey disciple on May 5, 2010 3:23 PM MDT up reply actions
I saw much the same thing
Add to that his problems in pass coverage and he’s been a liability. An expensive one, too.
Gnothi Seauton
I disagree
I think DJ williams has done more than you could have possibly asked of him. He has played every LB spot you could think of and has done well. Against the Colts he was the only one playing in the first half. Last year was once again his first year at the position which means he was still thinking and not reacting. In 2010 DJ will have his best year!
by CaliBroncos55 on May 5, 2010 1:18 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
DJ cost us the Philly game last year when he let D. Mcnabb scramble for like 30 yards on 3rd and 18.
His tackle numbers are skewed. A whole lot of his tackles are from behind.
Average Raider Fan's IQ = 89
Bill Williamson's IQ = 75
Find yours by clicking here.
by kwool79 on May 5, 2010 2:05 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
And
He is continually taking horrible pursuit angles at ballcarriers, leading to missed tackles and big plays. I love DJ, but that is fundamental stuff!
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
by ncm42 on May 5, 2010 2:08 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
YES. He seems so good but constantly frustrates........
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 5, 2010 3:45 PM MDT up reply actions
You're right
DJ leaned in the wrong direction, didn’t stay in his gap, couldn’t recover in time and McNabb ran right past him for the 1st that probably cost Denver the game. I know – everyone plays, everyone wins or loses togther, but your odds of losing go up when your RILB floats left following the play and is toasted by a QB run for a 1st after 3rd and very long. Philly scored on that drive, too.
Gnothi Seauton
by Doc Bear on May 5, 2010 7:32 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
DJ received a very healthy raise last year right?
DC/LB coaches have to see more than we do on reruns.
I do know that McD has spoke of Woody getting crucial time.
Let’s put it this way, Andra Davis had a better year than DJ last year.
Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.
by aLuffabo on May 5, 2010 2:48 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
its fundimental...
When you are in unfamiliar territory all the time some of those fundimentals go out the door. DJ had a decent year and Davis had a decent half of a season. DJ is doing what a lot of other linebackers don’t do and that’s change positions in the LB corp and still be productive. Give him 2010 before u throw him under the bus
by CaliBroncos55 on May 5, 2010 3:33 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Cali, I agree that switching positions each year hasn't been good for his play.
So that’s a good reason behind why he might not have been as good as I might have liked last year.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Haven’t made it all the way through yet TJ, but you might want to add “isn’t” into the header of #4. Just a heads up partnah!
Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.
lol, can't say that I meant to add it. He won't end the season at the starter, my friend
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Oh, wait, I’ve confused myself. I forgot that your header’s were “media misconceptions” that you were throwing the challenge flag on. :)
Forgive me, I slip into “Raider-fan-mode” every once in a while, and can’t function efficiently.
Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.
aluffabo, you'll never be that dumb! haha Raiders fans, you have to love them
I would run out of materials otherwise…
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
And THEN where would this site be?
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
The Broncos without the Raiders....like Superman sans Lex Luthor
like Batman sans Joker
We need those guys
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Like Unbreakable without Mr. Glass
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 5, 2010 7:03 PM MDT up reply actions
The minute we stop losing to them at home with the playoffs still on the line, I’ll stop feeling like we need them. :)
Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.
Dangit!
I FAIL, again. Just switch the meaning on my statement somehow, and that might make sense. The moral: I hate black and silver.
Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.
I really hate it when people talk to themselves. What is that about?
Fix the line, Moreno will be fine.
Even in the silence, MHR is with you...haha
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
1 hour of it left here... crank that blender back up
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 6, 2010 12:01 AM MDT up reply actions
Great Post TJ (the Dude),
I really think not drafting a NT is mute point. J Williams was brought in the fill the NT position and teach Baker how to play the NT position. Baker has another year in the system and now has a great leader to learn how to play it right from. Is Jamal the best NT ever, nah, but, he is very good and Baker gets the added benefit.
"A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Gagenot
"Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible."
by bchiper on May 5, 2010 12:11 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Respect, Bchiper! It's too bad we didn't get the Jamal Williams of 5 or 6 years ago.
Now that WAS the best NT in the league.
I hope he’s got enough fuel left in the tank. Given our draft, I suspect our medical staff told McDaniels, “affirmative.”
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
by TJ Johnson on May 5, 2010 3:46 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
He tore a tricep, there is nothing out there that says he is declining.
In 2008 he played all 16 games, had 56 tackles [2nd highest total of his career], 3 PD’s [3rd highest total of career], and 1.5 sacks [4th highest total of career].
The year off may have done him a world of good
After suffering injuries in 2 or 3 years running, he got a good, long chance to heal it all up. Ggiven his obsession with training and staying in shape, which a lot of young men can learn from, he has as good a shot this yaer as any in the last 5.
Green has in the past been fairly good against the run. He prefers to come off the bench and tends (on his good side0 to bring a lot of energy and enthusiasm when teams are getting worn down, later in the half or game. Th quote below is a good one, but he’s more than just that. Bannan is a stud anywhere across the line, Fields may make a very good LDE and I have hopes for Thomas at RDE. With Baker and J. Williams in the middle, they put together a very different group. McBean may struggle for PT. I still haven’t heard anything on LK Smith, other than his knee is supposed to be doing well.
Gnothi Seauton
by Doc Bear on May 5, 2010 7:39 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
thanks Emmett, always good
to get your perspective on these matters.
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
Except age, my friend. Everything except age. I hope he is everything we've seen.
Not that I care much for the football outsiders declining age articles, nor do I want him to slow down.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
I know they paid Green a lot of cash but i'm not sure he will be starting at RDE..
Not sure if the Broncos agree with him but this is how Green saw his role in a new team before signing here..
Free agent defensive end Jarvis Green and his agent, Albert Elias, sat back during the first few days of free agency, making phone calls and focusing on how teams would use him instead of taking visits. Tomorrow, expect the veteran Patriot to either begin taking trips to prospective employers or begin to finalize a deal to stay in New England. Either way, Green hopes to land with a team who will use him as an inside, nickel rusher in the 3-4 scheme and Elias believes Green, at 6-foot-3, 285-pounds, is the only available player who can fill that role. “We are in a unique, unique position to be a free agent,” Elias said yesterday. “We believe he was the only person in free agency in his role, a down lineman who can rush and have sacks in the 3-4 scheme. Numbers prove it. We weren’t worried Friday, because we knew there was nobody (like him). We’ve studied the market. It was our job to interview teams, talk numbers, and determine how teams are really going to use him and if he’ll be able to be successful,” Elias said. “I like players finishing contracts. That’s why we’re still in the process of fielding calls. If he’s used in the way he wants to be, he can play as long as he wants.”
So year with McBean and maybe every Fields/Thomas/Baker helping out at RDE i wouldn’t say it is now weaker than left..
Hoping like hell that Jamal Williams turns on beast mode when he is on the field, if he can aspire to have a D-Line version of the season Dawk had in the secondary our D will be dangerous.
Fair Point, HS, but, as you pointed out, the cash that tells the story for me.
I share your hopes and “hope” also that Green won’t be a run liability and that Williams is the beast he’s been against Denver all these years.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Just catching up with some long posts..
HS, I too read about Green being a situational pass rusher in a 3-4. HUM if NE replaced him at RDE last year against Balt, I really do wonder where he fits here. Would he be that big of improvement over Peterson?
yes
even as a situational passrusher he’d be a huge improvement.
Green isn’t a stud against the run, but he’s not a huge liability either. Just because he doesn’t match up well against a brawler team like Balt means nothing except NE had a guy who was better against the run situationally. Green is also borderline pro-bowl quality against the pass.
Peterson was below avaerage as a run defender, and below average against the pass. Green is a huge improvement, even if we may still use someone like McBean, Fields or Thomas on run downs.
Great read
Very interesting points though I disagree about Clady. He’s not Anthony Munoz but he’s the best we’ve got and just looking at how much the Harris injury torched us we could be in trouble. If its only a few games we’ll be fine but all season could be rough. Does anyone know about how the PUP list works?
"Cheering for the Lakers, Cowboys or Yankees is like going to Vegas, standing behind the dealer and cheering for the house."
Bill, if it was all season and Clady and Harris are not in there, then we are in agreement, my friend.
I think we can get through 4 games, specifically with respect to our schedule because we could emerge 2-2 before we play the Ravens and Jets back to back (scary).
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Clady out or even < 100% for any length of time hurts us really badly. Maybe even DOOMED.
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 5, 2010 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Great stuff, Dude!
So easy for us to turn qualified, nuanced observations into broadly accepted “truths”. It’s great to have a nice little mythbusting session every now and then!
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
Thanks, MT, although I am sure many disagree with point 4.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Not me. : )
If (Orton lights it up)
{yippee!}
else if (Brady brings it)
{wahoo!}
else
{Tebow time!};
Exciting any way you look at it.
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on May 5, 2010 4:32 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd. I love me some code jokes
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on May 5, 2010 4:33 PM MDT up reply actions
except wait
did I negate my statements by including a ! ?? lol
"All we're trying to do is win the *********** game!" -- Josh MF McDaniels tearing into his offensive line after three false starts in the red zone. The tirade turned the tide of the game, and the Broncos dominated from that point on.
by broncosmontana on May 5, 2010 4:53 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah I think we need to enclose that in quotes. :)
and I’m going to HAVE to stop here because I don’t want to be a thread jacker. :)
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on May 6, 2010 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions
Good Read
Thanks Dude
Still got your Creedence...
by OutOfYourElement on May 5, 2010 12:28 PM MDT reply actions
You can roll, man. You can roll. Thanks for the read!
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Over the line!!!
Mark it a zero!
Still got your Creedence...
by OutOfYourElement on May 5, 2010 9:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Very Nice.
I think the leash may be “shorter” on A Smith if he doesnt step up this TC and prove he’s better than what was brought in to compete. I agree Orton is not likely to finish the year (or maybe even start the yr). Traning camp will be nuts.
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. - Benjamin Franklin
by Orange and Blue on May 5, 2010 12:34 PM MDT reply actions
O&B, great point.
I should have mentioned Carter. Very good point. That’s why MHR is great. The readers are smarter than the staff….and I am serious.
The Broncos = Most Interesting Team in America
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
I know, right? we, Broncos, have never been the MOST interesting. Surprisingly, the whole Cutler and Marshall thing may seem trivial compared to what might transpire over the next 6 months.
I’m duly excited and makes MHR a must read for all football fans. Dont get “lured” away from here by the money from the likes of Gang Green:)
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. - Benjamin Franklin
by Orange and Blue on May 5, 2010 3:21 PM MDT up reply actions
FWIW, we were hearing a lot of good things about Smith during TC last year.
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on May 5, 2010 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions
very true, and he showed up last yr until he got hurt (ankle, right?). I think if he can recover from that injury, then he can show what he’s all about and earn a spot. But if he lays a stinker this TC, I dont see McD tolerating him – durability issue.
Smith got the message in his end of season meeting with McD that he needs to step it up, and I hope he tears it up at TC AND during the season. I want him to be a stud. The future possibility of Cox and Smith locking down WRs would be awesome.
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. - Benjamin Franklin
by Orange and Blue on May 5, 2010 3:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Nice article, TJ!
I’m not sure I disagree with anything you opined on. I really didn’t consider Orton being displaced this year, but after thinking about it it may come to pass.
Methinks that Green will be better against the run, though. He may have been pulled against the Ravens, but that was only one game. Got my fingers crossed!
Thanks again for a great post and rec’d.
'The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.'
-- Albert Einstein
You have to feel for Orton.
Bear, look at the first 6 games. That is a tough stretch. Unless we go 4-2, can you imagine Orton getting a lot of love. Heck, we went 6-0 last year and people were calling for Simms!
Imagine if we get out of the gate 2-4? Orton is going to be the scapegoat.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
It wouldn't surpise me to see Orton traded for 3rd or 4th round pick before the regular season starts...
It wouldn’t surprise me to see Tebo, Quinn, and Brandstater as our QBs.
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Gonsoulin, Taylor, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
Clark,
You still haven’t given up on Brandy, have you!
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
I wouldn't give up on Tiffany either, although she's not nearly as hot as she used to be:-)
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
HA!
there is a reason Brian Dawkins led the team in solo tackles this year aside from the fact that he is immortal.
Love it. LOL
Got Tebow?
Thanks, man! I appreciate.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Short Memories?
Wow…I have been firmly in the camp of “Orton Skeptics” since his arrival in Denver, and I have felt genuinely guilty about not seeing his value so clearly as many others on this site….I mean, at times, it bordered on zealotry…I would watch games, and think “he is not the answer” and then go to MHR and find post after post with statistics backing up how much he was improving, or how one more year in the McD system would solve everything, and so I took a deep breath and parsed my words carefully while considering commenting on his play…
But I gotta say, I am surprised at the speed in which he went from “the man” to “the after thought”….I am now sort of forced to take his side in this…In some sense, much of what was written last year about Orton could be summed up in one word….“Patience”. There were signs, mostly statistical, but clearly present, that he was an efficient QB on the rise…his mobility caused me concern…he was injured I was reminded….his tendency to give up on plays and lack of ability to stretch the field was always countered with the complexity of the “system” and how much better he would be after a year under his belt…he was always described as an intelligent player, loyal team mate, with good leadership skills, and i have no reason not to believe that, though I have no first hand evidence…and now, as we enter year two…the year that he is supposed to put it all together, suddenly it seems he is tossed out in the cold…traded before training camp, benched by mid season,or at the very least, not offered a contract extension and allowed to finds his own deal elsewhere next season…
Well, which is it? Is he the next great Bronco QB, or the next forgettable journeyman who wore the orange and blue for a period while we sifted through candidates to take their place as the next great Bronco QB….and really, is our loyalty to him so fleeting?…I at least would like to see if the hard work of last year will pay any sort of dividend…Like I said, I felt guilty last year for doubting him, and now I feel sort of foolish for not airing those doubts more strenuously…in some way, all the arguments made in his favor won me over I suppose, and I want to see him succeed, and now it appears he will never really have that opportunity…I am reminded, once again, that statistics can be twisted to support almost any point of view….and they won me over despite the fact that each Sunday I would watch and leave thinking that our QB was holding us back…and then swallow hard as I realized, after reading so much in support of him, that I apparently did not understand the game of football and that I was wrong…
I promise this, going forward…I will parse no more words…when I think our QB sucks, I intend to tell you why…
What if you don't know Jack....but Jack knows you?
by Hugo Norton on May 5, 2010 1:43 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Hey, Hugo. I always appreciate your point of view.
I spent last year defending Orton as you know. I still believe in him. I just don’t think McDaniels does—at least in the near term. Remember, my stuff now isn’t about how bad Orton sucks, but rather, drawing conclusions based on the actions of the Broncos, so there is a difference.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
I actually don't believe Orton sucks at all...
I was being hyperbolic…I thought your analysis was right on…I just found it amazing how quickly we all, as fans, tend to move on to the flavor of the month (I have seen it in a lot of MHR posts, and just happened to respond to yours which obviously was a much “bigger picture” piece than just about the QB)…
…as always, whatever the Broncos do, I hope it leads to great success on the field…Orton, Tebow, Quinn, Brandstater…I have no “horse” in the race as long as we get better…
What if you don't know Jack....but Jack knows you?
He actually sucks...
Mostly from a perspective that you’re never going to complete a 3rd and 10 in an obvious passing situation where he has to make a play. Also, from the perspective that he rarely looks at certain routes or makes certain throws and the offense becomes predictable from a game theory perspective.
Obviously part of this is we didn’t have the type of receiver to run a deep go route last year, but a lot of it was also Kyle Orton’s inability to throw a deep ball or even a deep route.
Also, a lot of Eddie Royal’s production drop wasn’t his inability to beat press coverage, the position he played in our offense, catching less balls over the middle. It had more to do with the fact that Cutler made a lot of guys seem open when they weren’t actually open. Both because of the windows he was able to fit the ball in and the places he was able to put the ball. Peyton Manning does this all the time with his placement of the ball. You rarely saw Kyle Orton do this last year.
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
The Kyle cant thorw the deep ball is absolute BS...aprt from that your post is good....and I DONT want to get in explaining the premise again!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
kyle's accuracy hurt him more than his lack of the deep ball...(which Boydy's NOT going to explain again)
Ask Eddie how accurate Orton is… I like your point on Manning & he who shall not be named ‘seem’ more open. That’ll be argued strongly against too but it’s true. KO likes em big & OPEN…
That being said, I hope TJ’s #4 is wrong and that KO gets this season to continue his improvement… he earned it.
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 5, 2010 3:22 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think that your trend
that you speak of, is mostly related to the drafting of the Kid! Orton was the man with Quinn around. Orton was the man with TB in the gates…..but with TT now in the picture….all bets are off!
so its not so much everyone turning on Orton, but more everyone looking to TT.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
by DenBronx on May 5, 2010 3:24 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I would say this is accurate
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
Not sure it has to be love v. hate...
I like Orton, think all his weakness (save mobility) are exaggerated by his detractors. I’m a big fan of the man. At the same time, its hard to interpret the activity this off season as a glowing endorsement by McD. Depth is one thing, adding two legitimate contenders to the mix is entirely another. It tells me that my opinion of Orton has been a wee bit optimistic, but it doesn’t make me into an Orton detractor.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on May 5, 2010 5:23 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm not rooting for or against Orton...
…I want the best guy to win the job. I just have a hard time believing at this point that Orton’s star shines as bright inside Dove Valley as it does with the majority of the MHR community.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on May 6, 2010 4:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Hugo.. don't lump
us all together. KO is the starter, and anybody, Tebow included, that wants that job better out-play him. Its nice to have TWO players with the work ethic of these two; I find myself in the situation of not betting against either one. I also have noted the comments that suggest KO is not going to last…not betting against it yet. AND, if KO plays well enough, it just doesn’t matter what Tebow does as far as McD’s future, so I am not in the camp of feeling that the mere selection of Tebow means KO is out. BTW, Quinn and TB may have that same work ethic, but I am not in a position to have seen enough of them to give any opinion.
by idahobronc on May 5, 2010 8:58 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well there is no convincing you then.
http://www.touchdownblue.com/big-blue-nfl-talk-f2/why-the-left-tackle-is-overrated-t192.htm
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Heh, good point there.
Average O-line with no weaknesses > O-line with elite tackles but poor interior.
All good having a Ryan Clady, but if they’re just going to send the pressure through the middle and sack the QB anyway, it’s kind of moot.
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on May 5, 2010 2:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Let me add to TJ's point.
In an upcoming MHR University article (Thu, May 6) I break down the responsibilities of each lineman.
Looking at pure pass blocking, the LT is important. But there is so much more to the game on the OL. I make the case that the center (who has to snap perfectly on every down with big monsters coming after him, and also has to pass and run block, AND has to read the defensive line) has an argument to made for being the anchor of the OL. The RG is the most often (and crucial) element in run blocking on most plays. Any of these three positions have good arguments to be made for importance.
Having any player hurt is a loss. But I’d rather lose my LT than my long snapper, my OC, and perhaps my RG. Just my own opinion.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on May 5, 2010 3:22 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
When HT weighs in, do I really need to say much more?
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Aw shucks.
I’m only adding a little bit of pepper. The main course was served by the chef when you rolled out the article my man.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on May 5, 2010 5:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Looking forward to it coach...thats info that I need!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
I'll agree with the 'slightly' over-rated but no more.
Tempest’s “Average O-line with no weaknesses > O-line with elite tackles but poor interior” is absolutely true but three stats I’d like to see included in the above article and this discussion are :
- how often the LT is left on an island alone due to his superior skill, enabling interior double teams.
- how often blind side sacks lead to turn-overs.
- how often blind side pressures lead to ‘happy feet’, poor throws and turn-overs.
I’m sure there are folks with the time and patience to better examine this topic.
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 5, 2010 3:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Sorry that post doesnt do it for me
It tracks sacks, but it doesnt even mention the strip sack which outside of a INT for a TD, is the most devastating play a defense can make.
Nicely done, TJ.
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on May 5, 2010 1:49 PM MDT reply actions
Thanks, TB, always appreciate your comments in either side of the argument.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Dude!
(Do you watch Human Target? If so, every time Guerrerro utters “Dude,” I think of TJ!)
I have a confession to make. Since Emmett is not a ‘regular contributor’ anymore, I look forward to TJ posts more than anyone else. And you never disappoint!
One point you make that I disagree with ever so slightly is the Wade Phillips / Josh McDaniels comparison. When Wade got the job, everyone knew that Pat REALLY wanted an offensive coordinator from San Francisco by the name of Mike Shanahan. When Shanny turned him down, Wade came in and was almost immediately a lame-duck/stopgap kind of coach. We all knew that when Shanny decided it was time, Wade would be hitting the bricks. Now if Wade had gone 32-0 with 2 Lombardis, I’m sure things would have changed…
With McD, I think Bowlen is sold on the fact that McD has a long-term plan and philosophy. Not saying Wade didn’t, but I am guessing Bowlen wasn’t thinking of Wade as the long-term solution. By no means do I think McD will be given limitless time to right the ship. However, I think part of what makes Bowlen the best owner in the league is his patience and the fact that he believes in ‘long-term’ plans. I could see McD getting a little more time to prove himself than he would with another franchise, because Mr. B seems to believe in McD’s ‘vision.’
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
by ncm42 on May 5, 2010 2:14 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
McD's not Wade
by a long stretch. No offense to Wade – one of the best 3-4 D coaches in the business – but he’s not really cut out for head coaching. He still has obvious clock management problems and never seems comfortable in his skin as a head coach.
I’d guess McDaniels gets an extension if we show further improvement this year (I’m thinking 9-7 minimum with a decent shot at 10-11 wins given the Chargers’ somewhat downshifted talent and the Chiefs and Raiders remaining mediocre)
.
A Bronco fan in San Diego - where history begins in 2004.
by BroncFanInChargerLand on May 5, 2010 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh yes. Now you have me laughing.
The point on Wade is correct. Absolutely.
I would say however, and wouldn’t you agree, that Bowlen isn’t going to accept .500 football for more than 3 seasons?
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Depends.
I think Bowlen is enough of a ‘big picture’ guy that, if he sees what he feels is improvement of the culture, attitude, way of doing business, etc, he’s more likely to give McD an extra amount of time, particularly if certain players (Tebow) are showing strides in development.
But, I guess I do agree with you. I think 3 years would probably be the most he would accept of any ‘development’ not translating into wins, no matter how much he likes McD. So, I see McD getting more time, even if McD ends up 16-16 after this year, but he would likely have to follow that up with a 10 win season.
And I just talked in a complete circle. Again.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
Hey Dude, nice points on many of the misperceptions floating out there in the ether.
There are going to be several positional competitions in camp that will tell us a lot about the master plan and some players had better bring something special or they won’t be wearing orange and blue. Orton has to show the work ethic and ability to improve in the system at year two that is expected of him. Alphonso Smith is going to be better or be gone. The D-line has been strengthened and the rotation will be interesting depending on down and distance. My major concern remains in the linebacking corp, but the fact they let A. Davis go means they are confident with who they have.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein
Spencer and Mario must have impressed them sufficiently. I'm thinking Larsen just makes plays
when he is out there.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Your statement about our QB situation...
I actually wouldn’t be surprised to see Tebow progress enough to be the starter at the beginning of the season. He can’t be more of a project than Matt Cassel was.
Have you seen Quinn play? He’s not good and his completion percentage would indicate this. I used to watch tons of Notre Dame games and a Brady Quinn game would involve Quinn throwing the ball up to Samardzija and Stovall and them going up and getting the ball. He couldn’t throw an out route to a wide open receiver for the life of him. The guy isn’t very good. However, he is better than Orton. I don’t think everyone understands how horrible Kyle Orton is and how great of a coaching job we did just to get him to perform at the level he did last year.
Now, go back and watch Tebow tape and watch where he puts the ball and how he makes plays when plays aren’t there to be made…both with his arm and his feet.
In my opinion, Quinn is slightly better than Orton, although still horrible, Orton just isn’t very good, and Tebow is probably better than both those guys in talent level. Where he lacks is in experience running the system, understanding the playbook, and playing at the NFL level / progressions. He’s not far behind Quinn in this regard because Quinn is learning a new system, didn’t play that many games, and wasn’t very good in the games he played. He’s pretty far behind Orton in regards to experience in the system, but with how hard the guy works, I expect a lot of that gap to be closed by the end of the preseason. If your lone advantage is more time in the system, that’s not a long term sustaining advantage…especially against someone who’s way more talented and works as hard as Tebow does.
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
I do believe Quinn is more mobile than Orton, but Orton makes betteer throws IMO.
Watching the 1986 Denver Broncos season today I saw remnants of Tebow and how he would take off if the receivers were covered. Not saying that Tebow can or will be like Elway, but the similarities were there no doubt about it. That has me wondering, did Tebow immulate Elway and his style in college? I loved the way Elway would keep defenses off balance.
By the way TJ...
Do you have PBP data from last season?
AdvancedNFLStats just released data from 2002-2008. It’d be nice to have PBP data from the last couple years without having to go through and parse the plays off ESPN.com.
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
Yeah, chan. Brian Burker is a total Bad MF. I love that guy's stuff.
That database is the greatest thing that I’ve ever seen. It is so awesome.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Jarvis Green is more of an off the bench typw player and he'll admit that.
Probably the reason to trim down Marcus Thomas, he will be the run stop man and Green will be the pass rush man. There is a reason behind all of McDX’s madness and it will project on the fireld this year. You might say McD and Nolan had a miff or a tiff, and rightly so if we are getting run over like Mack trucks vs beetles…Wink is in charge now and he stated there will be more agression on defense and I for one believe him. Not saying Nolan didn’t do a great job of installing a whole system, but there was times even I a novice airchair football coach was urging him to rush and he didn’t. Blame the players or blame the play caller, one or both of them were the blame and it’s “UNACCEPTABLE” by McDs standards and my standards as a Bronco fan.
We saw more fans on here grasping for straws on here regarding Dan Williams.
When we already have the guy in house (C Baker) who rates out close or near as he does. Why would we draft Williams? I personally would of had a bigger fit if Williams was selected than Tebow. Baker will IMO be our NT of the future.
That's true, b ut we seem to undermine and examine what they are thinking on a regular basis around here...
If so and so says it it’s all fine and dandy, if i say it because i believe it then it’s shit. I don’t get it? You don’t think Chris baker is the future NT then fine, I do. I see no reason to doubt that in any way and as I have expressed the position befroe the draft, if the position wasn’t clear then McDX would have addressed it, right? Where is the clear not clear? That seems like a logical explaination to me, since Marcus Thomas is losing weight to play the edge and that leaves us R Fields and injury prone Jamal Williams as the only other alternatives, wouldn’t that make it pretty clear that C Baker (the youngster is the heir) of the position? Give me reason to doubt it then I’ll slide out from under you.
That's all well and good to say in hindsight
but there’s no need to rip on the people who wanted Williams when the best info we had was one old guy, one guy who isn’t the best fit, and one CFA. Now I would say that Baker rates well, because after the draft the coaches said that. Before the draft I was all for Williams.
I want to apologize if I sounded too astute, as I didn't mean to.
I have actually done some research on Baker as well as Emmett has and I have found that some draft gurus and scouts actually had him rated as a 2nd rounder. It was his Penn St. troubles and transfer to Hampton that caused him to slide and our good fortune, then same might be said about Perrish Cox our draftee this year…
This one isn't about beliefs
Other than the idea that I believe Josh McD when he said that Baker had made excellent progress and was expected to contibute substantially this coming year. You’re right regarding the number of available NTs and our draft position, too, but that was (we now know) based on the expectation of Baker becoming an impact NT. Since Bannan and Fields can back up Williams and Baker, we’re in unusually good shape at NT.
Speaking of NTs, San Diego has a project in former Canadian Vaughn Martin, who may play DE and has lost quite a lot of weight, and a young guy in Cam Thomas. I like Cam, but I didn’t want him for Denver – he’s talked about as having problems with his motor and weight, the two things that I worry about most with men who weigh over 325. We’ll get to see him regularly and find out. Another good Q is whether Ryan Matthews is as good as AJ Smith believes – he’s clearly not the receiving threat that LDT was, but the Bolts apparently expect Sproles to handle that aaspect. It should be interesting.
Gnothi Seauton
Ryan Mathews is a question to me too...
He had a great college career at Fresno St but that being a smaller college do you think that might show him as a better prospect than he actually is?
Fresno State has a good program
And it’s made up of McD type players: Tough and Team first.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
+1...And Coach Pat Hill runs a Pro-Style (if not Ready?) offense...
Ryan Mathews starts his NFL career with a solid football foundation that will give him a great opportunity to succeed…Hopefully, with the exception of two games per year!!!
- Whatever "it" was that got you to where you are today, "it" will certainly not be enough to enable you to stay there going forward! -
by BroncoSense72 on May 6, 2010 8:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Oh no Rich...Your not against me too!?! LOL
Will they beat Boise St. this year? I hope not and they haven’t for a few years. But, even with the outstanding record that Boise has they have only put 4 players in the NFL in the last 3 years. Small school conferences struggle to promote their prospects. I was actually surprised that Iupati went where he did even after all of the fan fair for him. I figured he would go in late first or early 2nd…Goes to show what we think someimes matters not what a team thinks. Look at Jacksonville, they fell head over heels for Tyson Alualu so go figure…
To myth #5.
I’m going to predict right now that Ryan McBean keeps his starting job and that Jarvis Green plays a situational role on passing downs.
McBean actually played very well last year as he and Haggan pretty much shut down runs to their side of the D.
You heard it here first.
this would mean
the starters up front are Bannan, Williams and McBean.
I’d even say that Fields has just as good a shot as Green to crack the starting lineup on downs where runs are likely.
by bailey disciple on May 5, 2010 3:19 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree! McDX shook up the front 3 right away as soon as free agency opened,
clearly there was a lot of studying and evaluating at the seasons end and it was all they needed to decide that Peterson and davis had to go. That’s not saying Dumervil and DJ get a free ride. They will be watched very closely this year with how they have improved their run stopping game…Too.
ditto BD..my thought was McBean, Williams, Bannan with Fields, Baker, and Thomas
IMO Gren would be used in the 5-2 only.
I hope Eddie Royal get some love this year,
because last year he was treated like a red headed step child. I look for him to get 60-80 rec this year and contribute heavelly to the passing game.
Good job brother...
I too think Quinn will not be the starter by seasons end. I hope he is, with a playoff berth – so we can trade him to the Chiefs for an early 2nd rounder. :)
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The guy formerly known as ZAPPA
The Chiefs? They have their guy. Cassell will be fine now that their OL, run game and even receivers are improving.
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 5, 2010 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions
That LT really
tied the line together, did he not?
He did man; he totally did.
Seriously for developing QBs a solid LT is a great beginning and I think continuity matters on the line. Doomed clearly overstates it, but I think you are minimizing Clady’s loss a bit too much.
"Football is a physical sport, sometimes you have a disagreement on what's going on, and you have a discussion about it." Kris Dielman
Brian, that, my friend, got a good laugh from me.
Yeah, but the LT is not the issue here, dude!
haha
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
BTW Great points TJ!! Every one has me thinking. (Some when I 'thought' I already knew!)
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
Great post...
Many tidbits I had no idea about! Thanks for the work. Here are a few thoughts on some of your points.
2. I think the future of Alphonso Smith IS in jeopardy. He will certainly not be cut this year and I am hoping he shows great improvement, but he has a LONG ways to go to be “roster worthy” beyond this season. I’m crossing my fingers though.
3. Was the decline of Eddie Royal in 2009 really due to press coverage??? I have heard this countless times but has the issue ever been fully examined? It is hard for me to believe. There must be much more to it than that.
I agree with virtually everything else you said, so by definition, you are doing great! Keep it up. (:
I'm just a caveman lawyer (when it comes to football)...
…but I made a point of really paying attention to Royal to investigate the press coverage thing, and I have to say it is an issue. Some wise commenter on MHR— and I can’t remember who— speculated that Eddie really benefited from Cutler’s big arm and ability to fit the ball into tight quarters, and the more I watched, the more I had to agree. Eddie does not seem to get away from physical coverage well, and while Cutler was fearless in that regard, Orton either shied away or lost accuracy (he threw tight— or aimed the ball— so to speak) in those situations. To my layman eyes, that really seemed to effect the chemistry and timing between the two.
In otherwords, I think Eddie’s struggles with press combined with Orton’s caution really combined to create very poor chemistry and, together, the two factors contributed greatly to Royal’s drop off…IMO, of course.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on May 5, 2010 4:37 PM MDT up reply actions
dead on IMO2
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 5, 2010 5:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Not to be oversimplistic...
…(since there are many good points all around), but I’m eager to see how Royal does when the QB isn’t focused on Marshall so much. I’ve seen some pretty awesome stuff out of Royal (that opener against Oakland in his rookie year against Hall for example).
I think the jury may still be out, but I lean towards Royal being very good wherever he ends up on the chart.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on May 5, 2010 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Eddie Royal
is the man! I, for one, am proud to have him as my avatar!
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on May 5, 2010 5:34 PM MDT reply actions
Hail to the MHR rockstar!!!
Love your stuff, T.J.
I’m predicting Quinn as the opening day starter— don’t think it’ll take as long as midseason. I’m not hoping for that, per se, but my opinion of McD’s opinion of Orton changed in that last presser, when he said something to the effect of ‘Dawkins is the leader of our defense and Orton was the leader of the offense last year.’ Combine that with two new QB’s, and I see no vote of confidence for Orton.
Maybe I’m just seeing things in the tea leaves…but I doubt it.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on May 5, 2010 5:40 PM MDT reply actions
+1
Wouldn’t surprise me after hearing that one.
Got to say it caught me off guard a little bit.
by Matt In Canada on May 5, 2010 6:00 PM MDT up reply actions
agree, PO. i know it's sounds great to say that orton is a team player and all
but i just don’t see how anyone—no matter how great of a human being they are—can deal real well with being a lame duck QB at what should be the peak of your career. i can’t believe there’s not an effect there, and while orton will probably rise to the occasion, the gnawing idea that a couple of first round QBs were brought in has to be in his craw.
i think those kind of mental questions led plummer to some plain bad play and his eventual demise. can’t imagine orton not hearing the same footsteps.
wow. strong prediction. I'm still thinking KO for the greater part if not all of the year. I hope.
I’d rather KO bridge the Tebow gap but ANYTHING could happen at this point eh?
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 5, 2010 7:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Great job TJ...very cool article!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Thanks, Ben!
Keep ’em trained, my friend!
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Ryan Harris
Damn. Talk about a dropoff after he went down. I was wondering what happened to the broncos offense last season. Sucks to see a CU grad struggle tho.
Yeah, Snowbuff, he was pretty much a beast in the run, and it did affect the ground game, more than we know.
Tyler is decent and will do in a pinch, but not a long-term solution, to be sure.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Strongly disagree about Orton
As complicated as this offense is rumored to be, I would be stunned if Kyle Orton doesn’t keep his starting job (if he stays healthy). Orton has 1 full year jump on Quinn in this system (I don’t buy that running Weiss’s college version is equivalent…) and Quinn hasn’t proven to be the kind of qb to immediately dominate his way the top of the depth charts.
The perception out there that really seems off, is the one that says McDaniels keeping his job as coach rides on the play of Tebow; The reality is, McDaniels’s job security will be made on whether the Broncos become playoff contenders. Period. And it won’t matter whether his qb is a first rounder, or a CFL re-tread.
by wyrob on May 5, 2010 8:50 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Rob, it´s not my perception that McDaniels´ job security is based on Tebow.
My opinion is that given the actions he has taken, that Orton is not his guy, and as such, I don´t believe he´s going to be there by the end of the year.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
I know it's not your perception...
…that McDaniels job security is based on Tebow. That is a belief that I’ve been reading in the media quite a bit since the draft. I didn’t intend that paragraph as a response to anything written in your piece.
The Dude abides.
I wonder how comparable the EPV in college is to the EPV in the NFL. I wonder what the conversion factor would be, if the college EPV stats are available, at all. I’m wondering aloud, of course, because I got to thinking about a few of our rookies, Zane and Walton, and how they might affect our overall EPV along the line, now that Hamilton and Weigmann are gone. Not only are we going to be replacing two starters in our offensive line, we may have to fill a third, if Clady doesn’t heal as quickly as we hope.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
KB, I am not sure. If you can get the play by play, you can do the EPV numbers.
It would be an interesting project to be sure.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
EPV
Uhh. Can we get some confidence intervals here? Some standard errors? There’s a real problem of sample size going on w/ you just report a point estimate
Breaking News!!
The SUUUUNNNNNNNNS WIN!!!!!
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -D.A.
You're wrong about Orton
Quinn haters need to reign in the KO confidence. You’re going to look foolish come August.
Well, that´s like, um, you know, um, your opinion, man.
Opinions are either wrong or they are right. And no one is 100%. If you´d like, I can wait until an actual decision is made and then be assured 100% accuracy.
My job is to give an opinion, EL. That´s what I do. I gave you my opinion based on my perception of the actions of the team. It doesn´t I don´t want Orton to succeed, nor do I think he´s a bad QB.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
For once I was glad to be surrounded
by Chiefs fans, lest a couple flags directed at Radier fans might fly too near….
Thanks for the great read and genuine laughs.
Man, what do they say laughin once is like rowing a boat ten times? I rowed across Lake Granby! ( ;
One small note on one of the last sentences of item #1
Still, I appreciate a guy who sounds more like a fan than the actual fans.
should it say “… sounds more like a fan than some of the actual fans.”? – Cause, just… At least I’m housebroken. ;-J
Thanks again TJ – Far as I’m concerned any MHR staff is a more qualified ‘Broncos Beat Writer’ than… Well, I don’t need to name names.
First team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! and then some, right? I think four and someone else oughtta have a 'fair' shot ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on May 5, 2010 10:56 PM MDT reply actions
It's all about Brady Quinn this year.
Orton is going to flop, and I REALLY REALLY hope he puts in Quinn over Tebow. If he doesn’t you can pretty much kiss the passing game goodbye.
Drafting Tim Tebow with the #25 overall = Epic Fail
McDaniels just purchased his ticket out of town. Flight leaves January 1st, 2011.
by Tebow is a Bust on May 6, 2010 12:28 AM MDT reply actions
TJ nice article
Points 4 & 5 is where I see it a little differently. On #4 “Kyle Orton is going to end the season as Denver’s starting QB”.
My belief is that if OTA’s, TC, and Preseason goes without any injuries McD will do his best to trade Orton to give him his chance to be the starter on another team. I don’t think McD will let both BQuinn & Tebow sit on the pine this season and lose valueable game time experience to simply let Orton start knowing he’s going to be a UFA at the end of the season.
I do believe McD traded for Brady Quinn to replace Simms and as Orton’s back-up for next season. Just in case they didn’t land Tebow. What I remember Mr. Bowlen mentioning via the media, he’s going to get his QB and a week later McD traded for Brady and everyone figured it was Quinn that he was referring to, but I think it was Tebow from the start just my spectulation [huge smoke screen].
I think BradyQ will start the season and it will be his job to lose or keep while Tebow develops. I think if Brady falters anytime during the middle of the season Tebow will be given his chance. Long term Orton doesn’t fit the McD plan if he did McD would have extended his contract. To receive some value or if a team is desparate for a QB were in great position to trade. Orton is great insurance policy as I’ve mention before on another post.
#5. The Broncos are in trouble because they didn’t draft a nose tackle.
With the addition of Jamal Williams at NT to help teach the young Chris Baker & Fields were in pretty good shape. Fields & Baker had all last season to learn the position and now will have an All-Pro teaching them the ropes. Bannan & Green bring outstanding credentials to help improve the front line and again with youth as back up all of who have great game experience from last season. Said another way if we improve the offense and help keep the defense off the field it’s going to have a huge advantage for the D. The offense wore the defense out that is our defense because they had to play about 35 minutes per game and by season’s end our defense was dead. I think our defense will improve and if our offense stays on the field 35 minutes its a win-win.
Pretty much agree with most of all your post thanks for sharing.
oc60
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts, we make our path."
LOL at people thinking Brady Quinn is actually good...
I’d put money on the fact that Tebow will start before BQ.
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
don't say that out loud
you could hurt his trade stock. :) I tend to think he’s insurance for this year and an investment for trade next year.
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on May 6, 2010 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions
RE: point #4
I agree with you on the NT position.
However, regarding QB I don’t think it will play out that way. Orton had a year in the system, and I think McD wants him to get his 2nd full year in the system. In my fantasy alternate universe, if it weren’t for the ankle injury in the Washington game he most likely surpasses 4,000 yards, he is most likely selected as Pro-Bowl alternate (instead of VY or Garrard), and we make the playoffs. This year should be his career year, I would guess in the 4,200 – 4,300 yard range.
If that’s the case, we tag and trade him next offseason for a 2nd (see: Cassell, Matt) if we are confident in the 1 yr development of Brady and Tebow in the system. I think it’s then up to them to duke it out for a starting roll on the team.
In this scenario we get good production and hopefully make the playoffs while letting the new guys learn the system, and then get value at the end of the year. Worst case in this scenario we would get a 3rd round compensatory pick, and a very competitive QB situation next year with 3 guys who have a minimum of 1 year in this offense under their belt.
It seems to me in the 2 most difficult positions in our team (QB and CB) we are just stacked. I love what McD is doing with this team, and I can’t friggin wait until Training camp opens up.
agree
I think Orton starts this year as long as he’s healthy (not guarunteed given his history). Folks whine about him, but he threw for 3800 yards last year… while hurt and only 1 offseason into a very complex system.
Denver fans are completely spoiled when it comes to QB play… because we’ve consistently had top-10 quality QB play for 3 decades (even Griese and Plummer were top-10 guys playing for Shanny). Many folks here have no idea what “average” QB play is, so they see above average play from Orton and complain that he sucks… Or they watch the playoffs and see players like Peyton Manning and Drew Brees, and think that is “normal”.
As someone who has lived away from Denver for 15 years and been exposed to how the other half lives… let me tell you, Orton is no Elway, but he’s better than 15-20 other teams have to deal with. Tebow has the potential to be better than that… but I wouldn’t bet my house on it, and I wouldn’t bet $5 on Quinn, who hasn’t shown a thing at the NFL level.
I love #4.
Couldnt agree more.
Orton never was the answer. All the stats about him improving every year, being a top 15 QB blah, blah, blah. The proof was always in the pudding. Games against Pittsburg and Baltimore he looked outclassed. KC coaxed him into throwing two crucial pick 6’s.
Thank you TJ for settling the Orton issue.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Is it settled?
The only person “settling the Orton issue” is McD…
you dont think Mcd's actions have settled the Orton question?
Traded for a former 1st round QB
Traded 3 draft picks for a 1st round QB in this years draft
And prehaps most telling..
No long term deal has been offered to Orton that we know about.
I’d say TJ pretty much nailed it in his prediction of Orton
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
No.
Like I said in the above post, Orton was 1 game shy of 4,000+ yards in his 1st year in the system. Unless McD gets godfathered, I think he’s going to let Orton prove he deserves to take the field by the season opener, if for no other reason than the fact that he’s so far ahead on the learning curve.
I think getting Quinn was more of an indictment on Simms, because there is no way on earth Simms was creating any sort of competition at the QB spot. McX saw the opportunity to pick up a young 1st round QB for almost nothing, and in the process seriously upgrade competition. If there’s one thing we know by now, the FO highly values competition, and doesn’t believe anyone earns their spot by tenure or what they did last year.
I think Tebow was a special circumstance, and I don’t think we would have grabbed even Bradford had he fallen to #25. It wasn’t about the QB position, IMO, it was purely about Tebow. I truly believe their thought process was they had a chance to add arguably the best college football player ever to their squad without tying up the entire franchise into him. They in effect gave up the extra pick from the BMarsh trade and a few other picks they got from trading down solely to target Tebow. Relatively low risk with the potential for incredibly high upside – I think as a poker player I would take those odds with “house money” every single time all day long.
Regardless, the bar has been raised so much higher as far as competition at the QB spot than last year. The chance of all 4 guys busting out at that spot are slim to none, and the chance that one of them turns into a superstar is I think fairly high.
by capa on May 6, 2010 11:45 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Orton deserves the start imo from what he had to go through and learn last year.
So have forgotten the finger injury and how he played through that, if he was unable to play with it, there is no telling where we would of ended up with SImms. Seattle might of had 2 top 10 picks…Whew.
The risk of taking Tebow was a no-brainer when you think about it in terms of value.
I agree he takes the field for the opener
but as TJ mentioned I just dont see him holding onto that job.
Injuries and youth on the OL could have last years offensive line looking All Pro next to the early struggles this years line could face. The offseason MHR arguement regarding Orton was that MCD valued pocket QB’s because of his experience with Cassell and Brady. However, the last two QB’s brought are known to be QB’s that can make something happen with their feet. I could definitely seeing a move being made if the OL struggles.
Plus, as I mentioned in my last post. There is absolutely no salary committments to Orton long term. McD has nothing stopping him if he isnt producing. The lack of a long term contract should not be overlooked. Even the Pro Orton crowd knows his clock is ticking here in Denver.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
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