Horse Tracks - 5/9/10 -- Happy Mother's Day!
Pat Bowlen Training Center Opens at DU " DenverBroncos.com
This morning, the University of Denver’s 17 varsity athletic programs gained a 10,000-square foot strength and conditioning complex, thanks to Broncos President and CEO Pat Bowlen.
Elway Hoping to "Get More Connected" " DenverBroncos.com
In the meantime, the Hall-of-Fame quarterback is hoping to be seen a little more often around Dove Valley, helping out the Broncos any way he can while "on the outside looking in."
Paige: Broncos need to pull trigger on Orton trade - The Denver Post
For the development of Brady Quinn, Tim Tebow and Tom Brandstater, for fairness to Kyle Orton, for the benefit of the other Broncos, for the future of the franchise, for the fans in Bronco Country, for goodness' sake, Orton must be traded.
Kiszla: Orton should run away from circus - The Denver Post
Unless deaf, dumb and blind, Orton must be aware of his impending status as sacrificial scapegoat. At best, McDaniels deludes himself if he thinks Orton has the stuff to hold off challenges from Brady Quinn and Tebow. And the 75,000 Broncomaniacs itching to boo Orton the next time he throws an interception just want to get on with the rest of this team's life.
Broncos a win-first team with shiny Tim's help - The Denver Post
"I seldom agree with your columns, Mr. Kiszla, but I must agree with your assessment of Broncos first-round draft pick Tim Tebow. He's way overrated and, in my opinion, won't make it as an NFL quarterback. He should switch to linebacker. I hope coach Josh McDaniels has the good sense (although that's questionable) to make Brady Quinn the starter and put Kyle Orton in the No. 2 spot."
Tim Tebow's mom reaps fruit of labor of love - The Denver Post
In the months leading up to the NFL draft, Tebow jetted around the country making friends and influencing strangers. No, not Tim Tebow, the Broncos' rookie quarterback and Denver's newest celebrity athlete.
Broncos' Fields arrested in Houston - The Denver Post
Broncos nose tackle Ronald Fields was arrested early Saturday morning on a misdemeanor gun charge in Houston, according to multiple television reports.
Saints' Payton acknowledges pending suit - The Denver Post
Sean Payton calmly took questions Saturday about a lawsuit against the Saints, saying he "appreciated" the interest in a case that alleges an attempt to cover up prescription drug thefts at club headquarters.
Making sense of what they’re saying | National Football Post
The NFL is still busy as ever this first week of May, so another edition of "What They Say and What They Mean" is on tap.
Cushing should be judged moving forward | National Football Post
What do you think of Texans’ linebacker Brian Cushing now? Did your opinion change on the 2009 NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year? Probably, right?
Will these rookie free agents make your team? | National Football Post
Every year, there are always one or two rookie free agents who come out of the blue, make good impressions in training camp and end up nailing down a spot on your favorite team’s roster. Here’s a look at this year’s top rookie free agents and a breakdown of players we think could end up sticking on each NFL team:
What Lawrence Taylor is facing | National Football Post
Police told the news media that Taylor is being charged with rape in the third degree, a Class E felony, punishable by one to four years in prison. According to police accounts, Taylor allegedly paid $300 for sex with a girl who was forced into prostitution by a relative who is a convicted felon. The charge is New York’s version of statutory rape and involves an individual under the age of 17 not having the legal capacity to consent to sexual intercourse. Sex with such a person is legally treated as rape.
Lane Kiffin on JaMarcus Russell: 'He's a great kid' | National Football Post
"We had a difference of opinion, myself and Mr. Davis," Kiffin told the Los Angeles Times. "But, you know, like I've always said, 'Everybody has a boss,' and he was the boss. I truly wish it would have worked out different for JaMarcus because he's a great kid. But this could be the best thing for him."
Patriots got a sixth-rounder in David Thomas trade | National Football Post
Because tight end David Thomas caught 35 passes for 356 yards last season for the Super Bowl champion New Orleans Saints, the New England Patriots will receive an extra sixth-round pick in next year's draft.
Brohm gets his audition | National Football Post
After a prolific career at Louisville, quarterback Brian Brohm was drafted in the second round by the Green Bay Packers.
Terrence Cody off to fast start | National Football Post
Rising out of his stance, massive nose guard Terrence Cody shot his big hands into the midsection of veteran center Matt Birk and charged forward.
Shanahan wants McIntosh around moving forward | National Football Post
Rocky McIntosh didn’t offer much of a glimpse into the future when he discussed his situation on Saturday at the Washington Redskins minicamp, but coach Mike Shanahan made it clear he expects the veteran linebacker to be around from here moving forward.
Matt Katula back to 100 percent | National Football Post
Baltimore Ravens long snapper Matt Katula proclaimed that he’s 100 percent recovered from tendinitis in his snapping elbow that plagued him last season.
Source: C.C. Brown to visit the Detroit Lions | National Football Post
Former Houston Texans and New York Giants safety C.C. Brown is scheduled to visit the Detroit Lions on Monday and is expected to be signed, according to a league source.
Brian Cushing: 'I did not take a steroid' | National Football Post
Houston Texans linebacker Brian Cushing, the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year last season, was suspended Friday for four games for violating the NFL steroid policy.
Myron Rolle to be in Oxford during minicamp | National Football Post
Because of a scheduling conflict, Tennessee Titans rookie safety Myron Rolle won't be attending one of the team's minicamps.
Impressions from Falcons minicamp: Turner practicing with purpose
I swung through the morning session of the Falcons' first full squad minicamp Friday morning and here are some thoughts and observations -- and I will preface all of this by saying they didn't have pads on. I'm not a believer in much until these guys actually start playing football. There have been thousands of training camp All Pros who wither to the waiver wire once they actually have to run through a tackle or block somebody.
Five teams face pivotal decisions surrounding passers
With that thought in mind, let's take a look at some intriguing quarterback battles that are taking place during the summer:
Sans Haynesworth, Shanahan eyes those who 'work here every day'
Although the Redskins are holding their second voluntary minicamp under new coach Mike Shanahan, the only player staying away is defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth, whose ongoing absence from all offseason activities has become a soap opera.
Ravens move Oher to left tackle, send veteran Gaither to right side
The Baltimore Ravens moved second-year pro Michael Oher to left tackle and Jared Gaither to right tackle at Friday's minicamp practice and envision it as a permanent move for the 2010 season, according to a team source.
Wang embraces role as first Chinese-American to be drafted
Ed Wang wants to make it big in China. To do so, the Buffalo Bills rookie offensive tackle knows he first has to make his mark in the NFL.
Roger Goodell winning public battle vs. NFLPA's DeMaurice Smith - ESPN
There was a time not too long ago when the most dynamic person in the NFL was a player, whether it was the electric Michael Vick, Dante Hall, Devin Hester, Tom Brady or, going completely old school, Deion Sanders.
Cowboys' James finds mission in mom's death - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
This Sunday, Dallas Cowboys linebacker Bradie James(notes) and his family would have celebrated not only Mother’s Day, but his mother’s 63rd birthday.
Brian Cushing: Substance that led to failed drug test is not a steroid - NFL News - FOX Sports on MSN
"I did not take a steroid," Cushing said. "I'm very disappointed because I thought we would've won the appeal. I'm still stunned by the decision. It'll be tough not being with my teammates."
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Interesting points with the trade Orton articles...
as much as I would love to have Orton starting this year, he does look every part to be a lame-duck quarterback. That probably doesn’t inspire the most confidence in his teammates to follow his lead. Sounds like the rumor mill may start back up again with trade talk.
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
Can you imagine how excited Orton will be in his contract year to come out of the game every time it’s … and goal for the Broncos.
For a guy that doesn’t throw the deep ball very well, Orton will get about 3 TD passes in 2010 while Tebow gets the red zone glory.
It’s bad mojo waiting to happen.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
Um....I could be wrong,
but I just saw something that said Tebow was one of the best long ball passers……yes this is at the college level….but thats gotta count for something
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
More more reason why I think Orton is not long for Denver and why it’s not a ideal situation to have him in Denver in 2010.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
HAH
this is why I shouldn’t answer posts right when I wake up….I totally thought you meant Tebow didn’t have a deep ball, but you meant Orton…..
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
Actually Orton is pretty well respected in the locker room
Being voted a Captain as well as a strong, yet silent leader.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
starting QB = captain by default
by lolcopter on May 9, 2010 11:49 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Not true
Many teams have offensive captains that aren’t their quarterback. There is no rule stating the starting quarterback becomes a captain. In Arizona, Warner wasn’t a captain, as well as the 49ers, Bills, Chiefs, and Jets all didn’t choose a quarterback as a captain.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Woody wants to do what?
Last year Woody was pounding the table and caling for McD to start Chris Simms over Kyle Orton. Trade Orton and the Broncos will be lucky to win 4 games in 2010.
by rocko1 on May 9, 2010 5:27 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
that was last year
Orton’s work from last year is less than admirable. I mean 3800+ yards, 21 TDs and 12 int, are respectable numbers but what does jump out are the ‘leadership’ tangibles that are brought up in Woody’s article. It does make sense to me the argument but I don’t think it hurts Denver at all to keep Orton.
I think last year people were pulling for Orton after the Cutler fallout and last year’s body of work for both QBs speaks for itself. Quinn and Tebow have an advantage over Orton which is one was traded for (without controversy) and the other drafted (with much controversy).
Orton is clearly a stand up guy but some how that saying pops up in my head – “Nice guys finish last!”
Say hello to my fast...
Funny, don’t believe many have questioned Orton’s leadership abilities before. Team captain, played 7 games hurt, first in/last out every day, respect in the locker room, etc.. Plays seven games while hurt and ends up the with a career year. Orton is trending towards the top ten of NFL QBs and will do great things if McD can improve the overall football team. One saying pops up in my head – “a bird in hand is worth two in the bush”. Willing to put all your eggs in the Quinn/Tebow basket?
by rocko1 on May 9, 2010 6:38 AM MDT up reply actions 4 recs
I'm sure no judge as to mcD's thinking of late but
Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 9, 2010 6:41 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm thinking it's crazy to consider dumping KO right now.
Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 9, 2010 6:42 AM MDT up reply actions
Are you willing to waste an entire season of snaps on a QB (Orton) that won’t be in Denver in 2011? What’s the point of that? Another 8-8 season? Orton is NOT a super bowl QB. If he was, Brady Quinn and Tebow would be on other rosters.
I’m not sure what we do with Orton and if he stays in 2010 and signs elsewhere for the 2011 season, we will (perhaps) receive a 3rd or 4th round compensatory pick. That said, there are some real problems keeping Orton around as a lame duck, one year QB on a crappy below market tender. I’m 110% sure he’d be happier elsewhere making more money and on a team that views him as more than a stop gap for Tebow.
If you think Orton has a long term future in Denver as our starting QB, your Kool Aid was spiked with everclear.
Woody has his thinking cap on today. Orton in Denver in 2010 playing on a tender is less than ideal.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
so who starts this year while our rookie line learns? A Rookie QB? Really?
Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself.
by Whidbey Bronco on May 9, 2010 7:03 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree McG....Woody is pointing out what has been brought up here as well...
I LOVE Kyle Orton…my style of player.
But we would be doing the best thing by Kyle to let him go, get a pick, and he can start somewhere else.
If Tebow is the future….and we all know he is, and he is as far a long as McD says, then we are better getting on with it now. BE PREPARED THOUGH FOR THE POSSIBILITY OF A TOUGH SEASON……but at least it gets Tebow and the rookies in playing and helps the development speed of the team.
Sometimes, in the coaching world, you have to take a step back, to be able to take several forward.
What say you Bronco Fans? Long term success while perhaps sacrificing this season.
Me….I will take long term success.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
That way 2009 ended was the worst way possible. The team was playing poorly and it showed ZERO improvement during the year (in fact, we regressed). Worst still, the young guys showed zero improvement as the year went on. That goes against common sense for a young team getting more familiar with the playbook.
If 2010 ends the same way with stop gap guys like Orton, Goodman, Davis and playing worse towards the end than they did in the beginning of the year, that is THE sign of another wasted season.
If you’re going to suck, play the young guys and coach them up so THEY are playing better in December. Going into the next season with noticeable improvements late in the season prior and the subsequent momentum generated is what counts. If you are going to suck, then suck the right way.
The way we sucked at the end of 2009 was the wrong way.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
by McGeorge on May 9, 2010 7:17 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Good points McG....I have said all along I want from this season for our young guys to take leadership roles and the MAIN roles on the team....
WHile guys like Stokley, for example, mentor and take on bit roles…..if they can step up and do that and, as you say, IMPROVE as the year goes on, we will be in a great place….
I love it……WE NEED TO START SUCKING IN THE RIGHT WAY…..totally classic!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Thank you
Going from Tebow hater to supporter came pretty easily for me (A lot easier than I would have expected before the draft). But I was still having problems letting go of my support for Orton and his work ethic. After reading the articles above though, and now your posts, I feel I finally have my blinders off. It’s time to move on.
by Poster_Formerly_Known_As_Royal_Fan on May 9, 2010 11:03 AM MDT up reply actions
How many busts have we seen?
Tebow was not a pick anyone here wanted and suddenly he is the annointed one? I don’t get it. He may not make it and KO has sure shown he is willing and able. KEEP KYLE ORTON untill you KNOW better.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
by Sean in Pa. on May 9, 2010 7:23 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
From a team point I see this...
But McD has treated all the players that he traded really well…Marshall back to Miami, Scheffler to Detroit, Cutler to Chicago…..they all went where they wanted.
From a total player first point of view, it is UNFAIR to KO to keep him as a stop gap…..that clearly sucks.
And remember, he was voted the most under rated player by peers and coaches last year.
There will be teams that WANT him, not only as a back up, but I think some would like him as a starter.
He would start in Buffalo and Arizona, and thats just off the top of my head!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
boydy
I agree and disagree. I see the high side for Orton and the one year contract is a result of the contract between the NFL and players assoc. Not a result of what the Broncos want.
And remember, he was voted the most under rated player by peers and coaches last year.
My Point!
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
Yep....he is one of my favorite players...so I would rather see him start for someone else.....and they will be my other team!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
regarding the contract between the NFL and NFLPA
Denver still signed a bunch of free agents to deals that last beyond 2011. If MCD truly believed in Orton long term every effort wouldve been made.
My assumption is Dumervil will be signed to a new long term deal soon enough and that theory regarding the lack of a deal because of CBA issues will be blown out of the water.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
true
still, Orton would be a fool to sign anything beyond one year in the current envirionment. I applaud him for biding his time. KO is very smart and will make his money. I hope it is here.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
Orton would be a fool to sign anything beyond a one year deal?
What?
I’m 110% certain he’d fall all over himself to sign a multi year deal with signing bonus befitting a medicore starting QB. Probably a $5-7MM per year deal.
Without a 2011 season, he most certainly would want some LT security today.
-1 to your inaccuracy.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
You don't
sign a deal when it could be better in one year. The NFLPA has hoglegged all the players by not signing with the NFL. What player would sign a multi-year deal under such circumstances when they almost certainly will improve?
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
All I see is guys like Marshall, Willis, Ryans and Evans signing HUGE deals today with HUGE smiles on their faces.
Then I read about unhappy guys like Ligaments Out, V Jackson, Rocky MacIntosh threatening hold outs because they don’t want to play on one year deals.
Dude, the NFL is dangerous. NO PLAYER wants to play on a one year deal. Those deals are uber team friendly and very player unfriendly. Players want LT financial security that come with long term deals with big signing bonuses.
I don’t think you have a clue about what you’re trying to say.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
considering the freakness of Orton’s injuries last year, I think he would jump at the chance for anything multi-year
Collective bargaining
Really, I would not commit to anything in such an unknown environment. Would you? Really??
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
I believe it would behove Orton to sign a multi year deal as McGeorge states...
I am not totally sure players will be paid if there is a lockout next and someone with accurate CBA clauses might help out there. The Broncos can sign him and trade him next year without much problem, that seems like the best way to go for both sides. Orton clearly is the odd man out in Denver and he should get as much as he can going forward.
Yes
Because nothing is set in stone past this year. You could suffer a career-ending concussion or knee injury in week 3. Then your 1 year deal kinda hurts.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
+1000
A crazy situation with Wooy Paige, of all people, as the voice of reason. What a joke! Reminds me of the internet bubble.
Keeping Kyle Orton on a one year tender is in Kyle’s worst interests. It is very Patriot like though.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
Not necessarily, staying another year in our system might give him the chance to put up good numbers (since he will likely be the starter). Increasing his numbers will increase his value and garner him a good contract with us or someone else.
by swg777 on May 9, 2010 7:44 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
He won’t increase the numbers that count (TDs) if Tebwo comes in when we reach the red zone.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
I don't think Tebow will be a red zone QB
I think he will often be a short yardage QB early this year and ultimately start later in the year. Either way, you make a good point for why Orton’s numbers might decrease.
If Tebow proves out in short yardage (and I think he will), he most certainly will get his shots in the red zone with much more at stake than a 1st down.
Tebow was a TD machine in the SEC, why not give him a shot in the pros. It’s not like Orton was awesome in the red zone in 2009 and without BM (10 TDs last season) you see him getting better in the RZ?
Again, I’m just connecting the logical dots as I see them.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
But Orton certainly didnt have a problem in the redzone before hooking up with McD
No one remembers in the preseason after the left handed pass that Orton said he would hope when we get into the redzone that they wouldnt passing from shotgun
I think people are giving Josh just a bit too much leeway here . hes a great QB coach but his playcalling in the redzone was suspect PERIOD.
Orton was much better in the redzone with Olsen,Clark,Hester and Forte than he was with all the weapons he had for us .
How many time did you see us fake a run and then hit Scheff or even Graham ? I would be very much interested to see what Orton would call in the redzone as opposed to what McD would call on 1st and goal at the 9 .
As for tebow spelling Orton inside the 10 I dont think so it just wont work in the pros with a starting QB. because if you take him out after a 70 yard drive and tebow fails to get into the endzone not only will Orton be ticked but the entire offense will resent McD trotting Tebow out there in the first place .
People are coming up with some kooky reasons and everyone is claiming McD is hitching his wagon to Tebow or Quinn well lets see if he has the stones to really do it because I doubt he does .
by Hoopforia on May 9, 2010 8:29 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
god point
Thought I was the only one who noticed what went on in the red zone last year. The play design and play calling stunk. Orton was better in the red zone in Chicago. This is one area where McD needs to improve big time! Also, pulling Orton out inside the 10 will be every defensive coordinators dream in 2010. As John Madden stated many times when Kyle was playing for the Bears, “the closer Orton gets to the endzone, the better he gets”. Not the case last year.
I totally agree Rocko...a lot of Ortons failing was play design, and not Qb inefficiencies
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
I think Tebow will be any defensive coordinators dream. He sure wasn’t in college. He was many a defensive coordinators nightmare as a red zone QB.
I can’t think of many reasons why we made him a 1st round pick based on how far he has to go as a passer, but his ability to score TDs in college is one very good reason to use a 1st round pick on the guy.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
Orton was better in the redzone
in Chicago because they just handed the ball off to Matt Forte.
by gnarlybroncodude on May 9, 2010 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree with McGeorge on this one
Tebow will be more effective in the redzone then Orton. If the play breaks down when Orton is it it is most likely a sack. Tebow can extend plays with his legs and he could run it in for the TD. Those are two things Orton cannot do.
by gnarlybroncodude on May 9, 2010 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions
I should clarify. What I shold say is goal to go inside the 5 yard line plays. I think Tebow will see a lot of action there in 2010.
That won’t make Orton happy.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
what makes Tebow
better in short yardage than Orton? It is not the QB that makes that play.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
so
you are saying the QB sneak is the answer? A handoff to a fullback does not require a lot of mobility and any short yardage pass is going to be too quick to require a lot of movement
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
The prospect of a QB running can help keep a D honest.
It just adds more options to the playcalling.
"People who live in glass houses...shouldn't."
The option of a RB running is but one option, and a predictable one at that.
"People who live in glass houses...shouldn't."
Which is the same for every team including the final 4 qbs in the playoffs
None of those guys were an option to run but they still got the job done . How many running Qbs even made the playoffs ?
Did you watch Tebow in college?
It’s important to understand so that I can try to see your POV.
If you didn’t watch Tebow in college, there is no way I can answer the question for you.
I saw Tebow play a ton of ball and I KNOW what makes him better than Orton in short/goal line plays. I could write a book about it, but his film and stats say enough.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
Well
I guess my point is that KO can be good with a good team around him. I think a year in the system and a better O-line will make a difference. I have not seen any reason to doubt that Kyle Orton can make plays in a good system with good players. I am not saying TT can’t.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
A good team around him made Trent Dilfer...almost look good.
"People who live in glass houses...shouldn't."
I hope Orton’s agent is as convinced that he is a star in waiting as you do.
Orton deserves to make a lot more than he does and I hope he finds those dollars someday.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
Not a star
But good, real good. He has shown us that and he deserves our respect.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
I agree.
Orton is far and away better than Dilfer was. The only point I made, above, is that a great team around him could bring most NFL QBs to the playoffs and beyond.
"People who live in glass houses...shouldn't."
This comment
“Tebow was not a pick anyone here wanted and suddenly he is the annointed one”
Is completely false. There was plenty of people around here that wanted Tebow.
by gnarlybroncodude on May 9, 2010 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions
To early to
jump to conclusions on Orton’s potential McGeorge. Orton is trending to the top 10 and would have made it in 2009, if not for the injuries. Top 10 QB plus a good team equals playoffs in my book.
All I will say is this…
If McX sees a Top 10 QB when they look at Orton, there is NO CHANCE that Tebow or Brady Quinn would be on the roster.
Kyle Orton is only at Top 10 QB in the minds of several at MHR. In the world of reality, he is not, nor will he ever be.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
No. Did you see the way the 2009 season ended. I did. It was pitiful and our young guys were sucking left and right.
McD has shown me no ability to coach up HIS players. McD needs to show me he can coach on game day AND coax improvements out of the young guys.
I don’t want to see more Royals, Hillis’s, Phonz’s getting worse.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
just maybe
McD can’t see clearly because his ego is in the way.
LIke you know
rocko, what do you know about Mcd’s ego? A head coach in the NFL better have a big ego and HUGE balls to go with it.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
It has nothing to do with ego....it has to do with who McD thinks he can build his team around....
And as a caution to everyone….McD has said nothing about trading Orton and has not said once that Orton is still not the starter/
Lets not get too caught up emotionally on speculation!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
It has every thing to do with ego
And I agree with you boydy. nonetheless Orton is the MAN
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
Trying the strawman arguement again. You won’t bait me into this nonsense. I’m sure you can do better than this.
-1.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
this isn’t a debate McG. Maybe to you it is. i respect your opinion, but don’t agree with you in many areas. I see a 33 year old that is running the show. Nothing more nothing less. Nothing Patriot like about this situation.
Nice points McGeorge
No way Orton is a top 10 QB.
McD actions have spoken. You dont need a crystal ball to see there is absolutely no way Orton stays with this team past this year.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
yeah
And Simms was the savior last year. That worked out well didn’t it?
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
Maybe Woody just likes left handers!!!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
I have no trouble believing he likes left handed cigarettes.
"People who live in glass houses...shouldn't."
McGeorge....
The market for a QB like Orton would be relatively low. In my mind, his value would be equal to Jason Campbell, who only got a fifth (I think). My belief is we should wait till the market improves (possibly several games into the season). There is also the possibility that Orton improves so much that he beats Quinn out and becomes a very solid backup. We can’t trade Orton or Quinn until the competition results are clear.
There's MY DREAM SCENARIO.....Orton as back up behind Tebow...trade QUinn for something and keep Brandy....
I betcha thats McD’s dream scenario as well!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
I doubt Orton would go for that
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
No way Orton goes for that. He is easily one of the best 32 QBs on the planet.
Orton will want starter dollars and some team will be willing to give him that (Buffalo, Jags, Browns, 49ers, Seahawks, Panthers, Eagels, Bucs) immediately jump to mind of teams that could be in need of a better QB in the near future if their current guys don’t pan out.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
Kolb played two games in 2009, not 10. He may not be as good as everyone in Philly hopes he will be.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
Or a starting QB goes down in preseason somewhere and Orton’s value goes up real high.
I agree. We wouldn’t trade him now, but playing him all of 2010 to let him leave doesn’t make sense for Denver in the long run. It would be a wasted season of snaps.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
I thought the Rams wouldve been a great fit
Short term mentor to Bradford. Alas, it didnt happen.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Really?
I am amazed you would put Orton and Campbell together. Campbell did nothing, Orton showed heart and ability.
You Sir, are wrong,!
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
Sean, if you are telling me that Orton would currently demand much more in trade value than Campbell, I will gladly debate that.
Jason Campbell is out
He is not loved by the Redskins fanbase and has no real value that I can see. I will be glad to do some research and debate the issue if you like. My Stepson is a skins fan and is happy he is gone. How many Broncos fans feel that way about Orton?
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
In short,
McNabb was only worth a 2nd rounder and Campbell was worth a fifth rounder. The best I see is Orton being worth a fourth rounder. I think we are being delusional homers if we value him much higher.
4th or 5th and another player.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Teams like the Jags and Bills whiffed on gettiing a QB in the draft.
He would have more value to a team that’s desperate.
"People who live in glass houses...shouldn't."
OK
I will even give you that. I have a much higher value for him staying in Denver and leading the Broncos.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
no one will give us anything for someone that we have HAVE TO MOVE
The Skins had to move Campbell and the eagles had to move Mcnabb.
Most of us
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
I've made this arguement many times on MHR
In actual regards to geting rid of Orton. My arguement was they basically put up the same stats yet Campbell did it without the weapons Orton had.
You would never trade for Campbell because you know he isnt a great player. Outside of MHR the fans view Orton in the same boat. I tell my friends how much the MHR crowd loves Orton and they laugh at me. Orton doesnt hold much sway outside of MHR.
Here are the stats. They’re basically equal in every aspect. Campbell did it playing on a terrible team with a lame duck Coach.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Its funny....I have a couple of friends that have played college ball, tried out for NFL....
And their opinion is that Orton one of the most under rated and toughest SOB’s out there.
I believe this is what TRUE NFL evaluators and players think. Orton’s value is more than us dumb ass fans think, including mine and your friends Johnny!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
possibly
But the only evaluator that we fans need to be concerned with his MCD. And I firmly believe that his actions have spoken. And what they’re telling us is Orton isnt the answer.
I personally have never liked him. Tough, hard worker yes. But I dont believe he has the talent to lead an average team. Woodies comments about him having to play his absolute best game in order to succeed is exactly how I feel.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Yep, but he starter quality....and he is better than at least 10 starters out there....so as pre season comes closer there will be a BIGGER market than we all think .
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Which is why your hope that he accepts a backup job is fruitless. Orton is not a back up QB is he? Be honest with your answer.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
Hes not...but a guy can dream McGeorge.....
QB’s I rank below Orton:
- Cassell
- Campbell
- Hassellback
- Leinart
- Smith
- Bradrford
- Cutler
- Stafford
- Garrard
- Sanchez
- Edwards
- Delhomme
- Kolb
- Freeman
He is pretty even with Chad Henne.
This is based just off last year. There are guys on the list with more upside for sure…but still, Orton is still a good quality starter!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
are you sure?
you’re telling me you wouldn’t rather have
Bradford
Sanchez
Stafford
Kolb
Even Freeman?
screw it…I’ll throw in Cutler too. The Bears thought it was so lopsided they traded away their future to get rid of Orton.
IMO
Orton should be roughly valued with Garrard, Hassellback. Delhomme a year ago and Campbell on a decent team.
That leaves Edwards, Smith,Leinart, and Cassell. The way I see it, we are barely out of the bottom 5 in the leage at QB. And Quinn might be above that level if you included him on the list!
Am I wrong?
What?
you are saying KO is no better than the bottom five QB’s in the league? You do remember that his team went 8-8 in a rebuilding year right?
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
any specifics?
I looked at the list above and drew some easy comparisons.
And I definitely remember 8-8…I watched every gut wrenching game and Orton is so below average it hurts.
Who on my list do you take exception to?
Sanchez
would be good. We have better than your list on our roster.
Was the Washington game gut wrenching before Kyle got injured? Do you blame the QB for us going 8-8? I don’t! KO played well and deserves the chance to play on a complete team. I only hope we can have a year without controversy and allow a good solid QB to do his job. Do I think KO is a star? No. But I do think he is a top 15, maybe top 10 QB who needs a home. I would be more than happy to see Denver be his home and I would bet money that in years to come many of his detractors will lament his leaving.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
These are telling stats
from Woody’s article….Broncos
“lost eight of their final 10, and in those games Orton had 12 touchdown passes, 11 interceptions and 2,337 yards. In nine games last season, the Broncos’ offense didn’t score more than 20 points.”
The Broncos offense
NOT Kyle Orton. The Broncos as a team. Why does everyone insist on blaming ONE player?
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
when your QB
is throwing for 230 yds per game and throwing as many TD’s as interceptions over the last ten games of the season, it is really hard to get into the playoffs. On any team.
That is as much
to blame on a lack of running game, lack of defense as anything. You can keep saying Orton was ineffective but so was the rest of the team.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
Orton was 8-6
Orton played 15 games, and Simm’s lost that Washington game. Orton had a winning record last year.
Thats exactly what I'm saying
Orton is a journeyman backup. A good one at that.. But not a starter. If any of those teams had Orton on their team they would be drafting 1st round QB’s much like Denver just did 2 weeks ago.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
You are off your head if you think he is only better than 5 QB's in the NFL...seriously.....
Yes, I would take him ahead of all the people I mentioned NOW!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Barely out of bottom 5
is the line, and yes.
Maybe 7 or 8.
And you are off your head if you think Orton is a better QB option than Sanchez or Bradford or even sad faced Cutler.
Cutler
Is a BAD QB!! Period…. Prima donna that has no place in the NFL. Cutler sucks the frumunda cheez off my $#
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
But he is...until those guys are better than him....they aint.....I said some guys had better upside...but thats all it is upside...
Potential wins jack shit…doing the job does….and Orton has done the job…and those other guys have still failed to prove they can do that yet>
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
So they hand the keys to Brady Quinn for a full season as starter?
I don’t think they want to give up on the playoffs that quick. Tebow is arguably 2 to 3 years away from impact. Brandstater’s not a starter. Quinn may be a starter but they see him as a backup who can fill in for Orton and maybe pick up some things about the offense that could lead him to start down the road. Sorry, but I respectfully disagree with you and Paige that this will happen or should happen.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
by underdog on May 9, 2010 9:32 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
my tipping point has to do with other players
I want Champ (in his contract year) and Dawkins (he can opt out after this year) to have incentive and reason to believe they can win a ring HERE. I want those cornerstones to retire in Orange & Blue with bling by any means necessary. If you start Tebow this year, do those vets then go elsewhere to chase their ring? IThat’s the only part really that bothers me going forward.
I'm glad we had this talk. -- TJ Johnson
by BroncoInExile on May 9, 2010 3:54 PM MDT up reply actions
Uh?
Orton is clearly a stand up guy but some how that saying pops up in my head – "Nice guys finish last!"
Isn’t Tebow a nice guy? Quinn? Brandstater?
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
Woody is COMPLETELY full of Manure
Thats the spirit, start a controversy, throw the best QB we have under the bus for a rookie and or a failed QB from Cleveland. I’m not on a KO bandwagon, but why not let them compete? Whats the problem Woody? Haven’t you heard that people make their own role on this team? Hasn’t even been 1 minicamp, and the fools are yet again telling McX how to run his team. Unglaublich!
Hey Richard. See where you are coming from...
But Woody’s points are fair. I think this is a Tebow vs Orton argument, and the question is are we a r legitimate SB team. if so, we go with orton, if not, then we need to re-assess.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Yea, I'm really pissed at Paige
But, how well does TT read defenses? I don’t know, does woody? How do we know what to expect except of course rookie mistakes. I’m not pro or con on any of our QBs, I just am annoyed at the mans premature exclamation! We all have assumptions about who is what, and what they are capable of, but we don’t KNOW because the info we need hasn’t been generated yet.
Woody is a dolt about the Broncos.
His new BFF is Tebow, so of course he’s going to write pieces that advocate clearing Tebow’s path to starting. Kyle Orton deserves better treatment than this.
Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
Todd Helton - Time for his ring to come true
Daley for Closer!!
Quitter's People United Member #4
by SDcat09 on May 9, 2010 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
At a time when football news is usually scarce, there are some interesting things to ponder, today.
I didn’t expect the “trade Orton” noise to start so soon. Unfotunately, the volume will inevitably increase. At least it would appear that one of the writers (?) is trying to imply that he’s doing so with Kyle’s best interest in mind. I hadn’t previously considered it from that angle. It would be in the Broncos’ best interest for him to stay for at least this season. The question remains as to whether it would be better for this season to be an audition for his next team, or to move on, now, and be a starter somewhere else. I feel bad for him. He’s truly one of the “good guys”.
For a conspiracy theory, how’s this? Why didn’t Elway offer his services while “the man who wore Bubby Brister’s number” was in town. (funny stuff, Broncoman27) Was it “the player” who didn’t impress “the duke”. Was it the coach who felt it wasn’t necessary? Was John simply to busy? Inquiring minds want to know.
"People who live in glass houses...shouldn't."
Paige answered that yesterday (or day before)
Why didn’t Elway offer his services while "the man who wore Bubby Brister’s number" was in town. (funny stuff, Broncoman27) Was it "the player" who didn’t impress "the duke". Was it the coach who felt it wasn’t necessary? Was John simply to busy?
Paige quite bluntly stated that neither Cutler nor Orton wanted to have much to do with Elway. Notice he said “nor Orton”. Whether Elway had any interest or not, he doesn’t hold a position of any leadership on the team where he can say “you have to work with me”, so he just let it go. Good move on Elway’s part.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.
Why does Elway need to be around?
Let the man live his life and let the Broncos move on. El-dog is like 50 years old by now. He is not coming back to play on Sundays.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
He doesn't NEED to be around.
I just find it odd that, all of a sudden, he’s wanting to.
"People who live in glass houses...shouldn't."
Elway
has been making noises since the arena league folded that he would like to be more invovled.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
He's gotta make some money
Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
Todd Helton - Time for his ring to come true
Daley for Closer!!
Quitter's People United Member #4
Woody seems to be spot on with his assessments lately
Keeping Orton around doesnt do the franchise much good. Everyone knows there is no way Orton is here in two years. If they’re going to go young on offense they might as well bite the bullet and let this year be a learning curve to all.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Woody gets all his ideas from MHR...
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Orton hasn't been thrown under the bus?
you’re right…he’s been thrown under a fully loaded semi.
Very very true. Which is why I’m CERTAIN Orton doesn’t want to be in Denver in 2010 playing on a tender. Not the way the roster changed at his position this offseason.
Do you want another disgruntled QB starting in Denver next season? Woody asks some good questions today.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
I wanna win the Superbowl
I want the Broncos to win the Division, Conference and Superbowl next season and the only chance they have to do any of that is with Kyle Orton. Even if its a slim outside not very likely chance. Wait till this time next year to worry about next year’s team.
by mikebirty on May 9, 2010 6:52 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
This all about money!
Kyle Orton has a good year(you bet he will) and leads the team to the playoffs, then the Broncos will have to pay him. Imo, ownership will not take that risk.
by rocko1 on May 9, 2010 7:01 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
The only way Orton wins...
a Super Bowl is if Denvers Dee plays like Baltimore did in Super Bowl XXXV with Trent Dilfer.
Yes I have...
and Dilfer would not of be able to bring back Baltimore if it were behind in a game. Same goes for Orton. I’m not saying that Orton wont win a game or 2 for you but if you are down by 2 or more touchdowns…forget it, it’s over.
Orton did bring us back in several games . You watched the games but know these things ? what QB can always bring you back from down 2+ tds ? thats madden not reality .
If Peyton ,Brady or Brees are behind by 2 tds every game then they are probably not gonna make the postseason and even they will tell you that .
Trading Orton or Quinn is premature...
At the earliest, we should wait till the QB competition shakes up and we have a much clearer picture of where everybody stands.
In my mind, we will most likely wait till the next offseason before any moves are made.
Don’t take the bait from the mainstream media. They are trying to turn a healthy QB competition into a heated and hated rivalry.
by swg777 on May 9, 2010 7:38 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
This!
Future 2010 MHR Fantasy Football Champion! ;)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
Odds for DENVER LOOKING TO TRADE ORTON appearing on Profootballtalk and Rotoworld?????
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Paige's question is legit....but a year early in my opinion.
We really need to let the QB situation clear itself up in camp before winging off on a tangent. God forbid one of them gets hurt….what then?
Yes it would be in KO’s best interest to make him available now, but this is a team sport. At least he’s got the opportunity to show he’s still the best prepared to start this year. I don’t think he would be disgruntled, but there were also well made points above on how Tebow subbing in on short yardage plays could affect his stats, and thusly his value to other teams…..
It’s a tough situation. I love KO’s work ethic, and potential, but it’s not where this team is headed “long term”.
I don’t think we need to start a full fledged QB controversy, but it appears that’s what Paige is trying to do….
The pool results on the DP are exactly what I expected from the folks over there….
On a side note. I LOVE my new/first true smart phone. I can read this site and post without straining my eyes and thumbs!!!!
Future 2010 MHR Fantasy Football Champion! ;)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
It’s not a year early. Orton will be a UFA next season and we’ll have no leverage over what happens then. Best case is we get a 3rd round compensatory pick if he signs elsewhere.
If we don’t trade Orton this offseason, he’ll likely walk next season with nothing coming back to us in return.
Then the question is. Should we get one more year out of Orton and let him leave for free or get something today. There are valid points to both sides. And if all we can get is a low round pick, it is better for Denver (NOT ORTON) to keep him around.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
I'd agree with that if we wait until camp is completed.
At that point, we would be much better informed as to the QB position…. :)
I just think it’s premature to start a divisive controversy before camp even starts.
Future 2010 MHR Fantasy Football Champion! ;)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
I agree. Best time to trade a QB is at the end of of TC.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
Yes!
What if Quinn tweaks his shoulder halfway through camp…?
The opinion below is true.
The opinion above is false.
Agreed Todd!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Lost in all this
Is the fact that the OLine could be horrendous to begin the year. With all the injuries, new players, rookies, etc Denver may be better suited to have a Qb that can make things happen with his feet. Certainly we know that Orton isnt the must sleek looking Qb.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
I mentioned that too Johnny....we saw wat Cutler did withbhi mobility...and Tebow is more gifted as a runner than Jay Cutler is.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
like cutler with the bears ...yeah how did that mobility work out for them last year ?
Didnt he get sacked more than Orton ?
We have a FAR better O line than the Bears...even with the rookies playing.
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
well then he walks but if you dump him now youve basically announced that youve given up on the season
How do you think the new veteran nose tackle who signed here as well as Champ and Dawk will feel about that one ? You really think they want to sit through a rebuilding at there ages ?
by Hoopforia on May 9, 2010 8:39 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Quinn
Has every bit as much chance to be mediocre as Kyle Orton did last year. (or this year). Throwing away the season would be polishing the skills and stats of a QB you lack trading leverage over and do not want to sign to a long contract.
so you think Quinn is gonn throw for 3800 yards and 21 tds ?
Quinn was mediocre last year …Orton was not . Quinn by all intensive purposes is a failure in the pros so far
Quinn for want of a better term...SUCKED!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Who cares what Champ and Dawk feel. They feel about $13MM per season hit their bank account as expensive vets. Now we have to worry about their feelings on the team’s direction?
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
Does your paycheck
indicate your feelings toward your company and its rules?
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
Of course it does! Are you saying you don’t?
I don’t work for the pure joy of it. I like my job, but I wouldn’t like it very much if I was getting paid less than my worth and I’d like it a lot more if I was getting overpaid.
But my job doesn’t carry the risk of an NFL career. I don’t run the risk of sustaining a compound fracture on a daily basis. I should be able to walk just fine when I’m 50. My brain should work, unlike a Stokely type.
NFL players play for money above all else and they should considering the very real health risks.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
My paycheck
pays for my work, not my soul. I work for money and If I disagree with the way the company is run then I will not work for them. So the answer is NO, my paycheck does not pay for loyalty. It pays for my work, nothing more.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
“my paycheck does not pay for loyalty. It pays for my work, nothing more.”
That is probaly the way your company feels about you and mine about me. So why give a crap about Bailey’s hopes for a SB in 2010 at the expense of the long term goals of the Broncos.
I saw you don’t. All Bailey’s salary pays for is his work. Nothing more. His feelings should mean jack squat compared to anyone else on the Broncos. Not Elvis, not Orton, not McD or Tom Bradstater.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
And Yet
If you feel your paycheck is worth your effort, then you try hard!!
I didn’t really understand your last paragraph……
“I saw you don’t” ??
If I pay you good money, you do a good job. If you don’t like the way I run my business then you won’t do a good job no matter what I pay you. You may work for me, but I won’t get your best work and I am wasting my money.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
just to add here
Champ has shown he loves football, he is very very well paid. To this point it is my opinion he has earned his money and I did not like the trade at the time. I am pleasantly wrong when it comes to Champ Bailey.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
“I say you don’t”. My bad.
You are now proving my point about not caring about any one players feelings.
You pay them well and expect them to prove an effort equal to their pay. Dawkins is in Denver because we paid him much more than the Eagels would. He didn’t come here for any other reason. If Philly, New England, Pitt or Indy had offered the same contract we did, Dawkins NEVER would have worn the Orange and Blue. His desires to be good in 2010 vs 2011 vs Elvis’s or Ayers hopes mean nothing to me. They are employees of the team.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
I am not really
concerned about one players feelings. I am a Bronco football team fan. I want the Broncos to win. I don’t really think all the talk about Mcd this and McX that is really going to solve anything and I don’t know all that much about the game of football except I have enjoyed watching it over the years. I was a bigtime John Elway fan and so the Broncos are my team. I think the team can be very good again given Josh McDaniels is here and I think Kyle Orton is a good QB that can be excellent in a good system. I think the players sign for good money and damn well better play hard for what they earn. I also think the team survives as a team and we can all complain about the parts but it is the whole that makes it work.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
The franchise tag for Orton is like $14MM per year. That is a bluff all 31 other teams would call.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
That would depend
On what kind of year Orton has in 2010
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
Well
It looks like mission accomplished for Woody and Kizla. divide and conquer the fanbase by making a conflict where none exists. They really fooled you guys.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on May 9, 2010 8:21 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
It certainly makes for lively and entertaining discussion.
"People who live in glass houses...shouldn't."
+10000000....really sad.
Future 2010 MHR Fantasy Football Champion! ;)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
I dont see it that way at all.
Woody brings up a valid point. I dont see nothing malicious in it at all.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
certainly makes their job easier. Plenty of material to write about. Orton is just too boring. All he does is win. Paige and Kizla will be first in line to jump off the Tebow Express if the team starts out 0-2.
by rocko1 on May 9, 2010 9:11 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Win and lose.
All Orton delivered in Denver was another 8-8 season and late season melt down.
I, for one, don’t care about his W-L record in Chicago since I don’t root for the Bears. It is what he does here that matters. Nothing else.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
NO
Orton did NOT deliver an 8-8 season. The Broncos did. One man does not make a team or a record. He did his part much better than some. McGeorge, you went on and on about McD and his group making bad play calls. Now it seems convenient for you to blame the QB for all the wrongs done by the team. Can you make up your mind or do you just go with the flow? I respect your ferver, your desire. but you seem to be vasilating a bit here.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
I hate that QBs have W-L records attached to their name when WRs, OLBs and Punters don’t. It doesn’t make sense to me.
Orton did better than many of his offensive teammates and the coaching staff. But I think our O sucked in 2009 and really let the D down. I don’t buy into the endless MHR bull crap about pointing at the run D as our down fall while conveniently sweeping under the rug just how bad our O was in 2009. The offense was (by FAR) the real problem in Denver losing 8 games and with why our season wasn’t better than it was. Since I think our O sucked so bad in 2009, that Orton sucked less than his teammates doesn’t mean I think he should be praised.
Orton could have proven he was the LT answer at QB. He didn’t. He fell short and now we have two guys that are very capable of taking his spot. McD did that by choice so I guess he feels even stronger about Orton’s lack of long term future in Denver than I do.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
I disagree Kaptain.
We can kick the can down the road until August, but there is bound to be some dark clouds with Orton on a one year deal with Tebow and Quinn behind him and possibly taking his regular season snaps in red zone or short yardage situations.
Kyle has himself, his family and his career to look after. Paige is right about that theme in his article today
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
thats not going to happen thats not how pro football works . If you think Orton is gonna be named starter and probably captain and then come off the field in the redzone its never gonna happen .
If Ortons the starter hes the starter and Tebow will sit there wont be any back and forth. I dont get where people get this notion that a coach is gonna pull a veteran NFL QB in the redzone after a 60-70 yard drive .
Orton goes 7-7 on the drive oh here comes the rookie Tebow to try and fool the defense in the redzone . Again will never happen its either Orton or Tebow it will never be both once McD said Tebow wont play anything but QB he seals that .
The thing I resent
Is Woody inciting a vigilante outburst to divide the fanbase. I don’t want to see another “shove Plummer under the bus and start the rookie” argument start. Bad enough the fans Booed Orton when he threw a pick during practice. This isn’t the Roman Colosseum, where the audience gets to decide whether a slave lives or dies.
woody plays all sides against the middle and doesn’t stand for anything but himself.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on May 9, 2010 5:36 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
You are absolutely right...
I quit reading the guy for this very reason.
My issue with the Orton trade is I'm not exactly sure how much we can get in return for him.
Who knows if McD has any interest in trading Orton. We’ll see what happens.
The debate about a trade...
is about who it benefits. It is ABSOLUTELY in the Broncos’ best interest if Orton is still here for the 2010 season…..unless the inevitable “QB” controversy raises it’s ugly head. That could make things dicey. The fair thing for Orton, on the other hand, is to be the starter – long term – for a team. With what’s hanging over Kyle’s shoulder can’t make him feel good. There’s been no long term contract offer, and TWO potential starters brought in. Keeping Kyle is better for the team. Trading him would be more fair to Kyle.
Unless I’m mistaken, that is the debate du jour.
"People who live in glass houses...shouldn't."
Why do people assume that in a fair competition KO loses? If he wins, we win.
He’s a year ahead of BQ in the system, and the same for TT. It’s premature to say get rid of our most experienced QB this year. It’s a different conversation entirely as to what we do in 2011.
by RichardC on May 9, 2010 11:26 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great point
What if Orton IS the best quarterback we have, and by trading him we make ourselves worse?
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Am i the only who thinks Quinn has a great chance of beating Orton out this season anyway?
It looks to me like Orton and Quinn are pretty even in skill level, with Quinn getting the edge in mobility and upside potential.
Regardless, Orton appears to be in a can’t win situation. Starting will be one season at best, and becoming a backup to Quinn will probably only last a few weeks.
the only thing Quinn would be Orton out in is jersey sales. 29-18 vs 3-9, 14th rated vs 30th rated. Yes you could be the only one.
by rocko1 on May 9, 2010 9:21 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
I like Orton and hate to see him leave, but ...
I think he will begin the season as starter, then somewhere around mid season, Quinn will be promoted and Orton will become number two. (Possibly for the London game.) After two or three games with Quinn doing well, Orton will be traded to Minnesota.
I’m open for tarrot card readings Mon … wait, did I spell that right? I must not be very good at this. :-)
These are the drawbacks of what some people hinted at from the last “IT” article. This is what comes from him having said those things.
I think you’re putting too much stock in woody and Kizsla’ s articles. There was going to be a circus regardless come TC. Nothing should change in the plan McD has. Certainly not b/c of what those bozos wrote.
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. - Benjamin Franklin
by Orange and Blue on May 9, 2010 10:51 AM MDT up reply actions
Elway/McD
This is a very good way to endear yourself to a large part of the fanbase:
"John Elway is going to be a part of this organization forever," McDaniels said. "Anytime he wants to come around, he knows that he can. I have a relationship with John and I will continue to have a relationship with John. Any resource like that, you have to try to reach out and use it if you can."
"What he’s been able to accomplish in his career I think is a great influence for some of our younger players and even our veteran players that have been in the league for a long time," he continued. "Any guidance that he can give any of us or any of our players is well-received."
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
I just want to know
who in their right mind calls for brady quinn to start over kyle orton!?
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
agree. someone needs to revisit Quinn recent past.
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. - Benjamin Franklin
by Orange and Blue on May 9, 2010 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions
Totally agree...thats one argument I will NEVER buy into.....Quinn has SUCKED...and thats being kind!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
and to be fair o dont think that Tebow is gonna start either
this is Kyle’s year! I would love to give him a good deal for like five years and front load the majority of the contract so he gets his money and if something happens we arent paying him starter money as a back up
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on May 9, 2010 10:55 AM MDT up reply actions
WAIT!
We are paying Orton $2m+, if we send him off, and Quinn plays (which is likely) and plays 70% of the snaps, then he gets paid $5.9m. No way.
Tebow wont be ready (IMO) for 2010 full time starter status; therefore in order not jam oursleves financially we play Orton (he’s got the best grasp of the offense right now anyway – so he will have earned it).
Orton gives us the best chance to win at the outset. If after game 5 or so we are not doing well on offense, I see Quinn or Tebow moving in. It’s a money issue right now IMO.
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. - Benjamin Franklin
by Orange and Blue on May 9, 2010 10:48 AM MDT reply actions
Thats a good point....it between Orton and Tebow...Quinn is the back up in any scenario!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Huge difference between best interests.
It is in Denver’s best interest to pay Orton $2.5MM in 2010 on a one year deal (no signing bonus). That is a uber team friendly contract with no pending commitment past this season.
It is in Orton’s best interest to get a long term deal somewhere else where he has a chance to be the long term QB. Woody is pointing out that those two divergent interests will not benefit Denver in 2010 and he is right. Our starting QB won’t be playing for us, he will be playing for himself and his future elsewhere.
That my friend is tricky, whether you want to face that music or not.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
And yet
when BMarsh was playing for himself everyone seemed to think that benefitted the team as well and we took what we could get while we could get it.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
You are equating Orton with the normal mentality of today’s football player. I dont see him being that way IMO. From the way he has conducted himself he’s not about anything but the team. We’ll see.
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. - Benjamin Franklin
by Orange and Blue on May 9, 2010 1:34 PM MDT up reply actions
It sounds like Woody is grinding out the inevitable.
Whether we like it or not, McD made his choice of who he wants as signal caller (I’m not going to say under center because that might not happen very often). Drafting Tim Tebow in the first round was a clear and concise message that he is not and will not accept second best. The writing’s on the wall and it’s pretty plain what direction we going in and I would be surprised if Kyle Orton is still on the team by the end of training camp. McGeorge made a great point that should be at least taken for some truth, teams that suffer QB injuries during TC will be looking for a solution. Kyle may indeed fit one of those needs and a trade be made. And, if a trade is made it will be yet another oage off of Cutler and how much he cost the Bears. Isn’t life wonderful?
It's true injuries may play a role
but as of today, could he not start on a team like Buffalo?
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
by T.Dot_Bronco on May 9, 2010 12:00 PM MDT up reply actions
I think he could.
Guys like Trent Edwards, Alex Smith, Dave Garrard, Vince Young, Jake Del-Homme would have their hands full trying to be out Orton in a training camp battle.
What if Klob sucks in Philly or Leihart sucks in AZ or Carson Palmer gets hurt?
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
McD owes Bailey and Bdawk at least a chance to make something happen this year.
Orton is that chance ( not a very good one, but a chance). If we’re under.500 by the time the bye week rolls around, then fine, throw in Tebow. We could still get something to Orton.
Bailey makes $12+MM in 2010. I think he owes Denver one hell of a season for that amount of money. We don’t owe him anything beyond his huge deal. Ditto with Dawk.
It’s Elvis that McD owes. Football is a dangerous job before it is anything else.
Apparently this was the awesome, pre-injury Alphonso Smith.
I think
Bailey is gone after this year. Just a hunch.
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
Woody also stated that:
TT has “already absorbed the playbook” ? Like, by osmosis, maybe? It is statements like this that make me refrain from taking him seriously. But still I would not be surprised if KO gets traded, as it looks like McD has written on the wall. The thing that worries me most is that it will be another year where our QB is new to the system.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
Philip K. Dick
The vulcan mind meld, perhaps?
Given the complexity of an NFL playbook, I still find this one hard to believe.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
Philip K. Dick
Totally meaningless statement
McDaniels said that the only thing Tebow doesn’t know is what McDaniels hasn’t given him yet.
unless you know how much of the playbook Tebow has been given. But it’s a really great statement for all the Tebow worshippers.
All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow...and one day you’ll awake and find that you’ve never lived and never died, except in the dream.
William Blake
How exactly does Woody know this information?
Has he asked Tebow if he knows the entire playbook? Keep in mind its a huge and complicated one. He asked McD what does Tebow know of the playbook? McD said what we’ve told him. So apparently from that tidbit Woody has concluded that Tebow has indeed absorbed the playbook. Maybe we should call him Timmy “Bounty” Tebow. Maybe we should also used him to clean our spilled milk. Give me a break. Like you said, it’s lines like that, that lead me to believe the entire article is bullshit anyway.
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
by T.Dot_Bronco on May 9, 2010 6:46 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

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