Ten Thoughts on the Broncos' Latest Minicamp
The Broncos recently concluded their minicamp, and while there is still some uncertainty surrounding this team, a lot of positive came from it.
The first mandatory offseason camp of the offseason has been surrounded with a lot of hype given the huge turnover this team has seen the last two years. Without guys like Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall, those who follow and cover the Broncos are seeing a completely new brand of football, especially now that the roster is almost entirely made up of players who fit the criteria required by the Broncos front office.
This camp concluded not really answering anybody's uncertainty, but it brought about a few new perspectives and some interesting developments.
Follow me for my thoughts on the Broncos' first mandatory minicamp of the 2010 offseason...
1. Elvis Dumervil bucks the trend, signs his RFA tender
This is by far the most exciting news to come from camp. Well, maybe not "by far", but it's pretty darn close. Dumervil led the NFL in sacks in 2009 as we all know, and he has shown nothing but class this offseason. He is due for a contract extension, and if he doesn't receive one by the time the regular season starts, I'll be quite surprised.
I say he "bucks the trend" because restricted free agents all around the NFL are seemingly having trouble doing what Dumervil did. He showed--in my opinion--a great faith gesture in not only his agent but the Broncos front office to get a long-term deal done. It's not often the NFL's sack champion is willing to sign a one-year contract for just over three million dollars, and not many players in general are willing to do it in the midst of a potential lockout in 2011.
Dumervil has shown me something this offseason simply by showing up to all of these practices, and he obviously wants to be a Bronco long term. Git 'er done, fellas.
2. Jarvis Moss finding a way?
I love this kind of stuff. Regardless of whether or not you even care about the guy anymore, it's encouraging to read the words "Jarvis Moss working with first team defense" after all he has been through with this team. Two injury plagued seasons, struggling to make the roster, rumored retirement--this guy's three years in Denver have been nothing short of disappointing.
It's refreshing to see some positive news coming from Jarvis' camp. He has reportedly been whipping his butt into shape this offseason, is attending three times as many meetings and OTA's as he has in his entire career, and the hard work has paid off. Though Moss is a slender 6'7" 245 pounds, I really hope the guy makes some strides when the pads get strapped on.
After all, some have been talking of how the depth at OLB on this team is questionable, and a healthy, focused, and determined Jarvis Moss would be just what the doctor ordered. He didn't suddenly become a bad football player, he's just never been able to put it all together.
Regardless of your optimism or pessimism, this news is encouraging.
3. The Wide Receiver Corps is as Balanced as I've Seen it in a While
No Brandon Marshall? No problem.
Andrew Mason indicated that first round pick Demaryius Thomas showed "great" work on running routes, and while it's still very early, the reports indicate that Thomas is a beast.
And this one has speed.
Walter Football's analysis that Thomas is a receiver who "can't run routes or catch" is astounding to me. The guy had over 1,200 yards receiving on a team that passed the ball maybe 80 times last season. Okay, so I'm exaggerating a bit, but nothing more than that. Thomas has breakaway speed, huge hands, is a deep threat, and he is smart. This guy will be a stud for a while in the league.
Matthew Willis continually made headlines on the Denver Broncos Blog daily reports. He is also a factor on special teams, so when you are projecting rosters, it might be wise to reserve a spot for Matthew Willis.
Kenny McKinley had positive reports. Eddie Royal had positive reports, and apparently is the new and improved Wes Welker. Jabar Gaffney could be a "breakout" player according to nearly every magazine I have read. Brandon Lloyd is making more and more circus catches. Eric Decker is nearly ready to get on the field.
Like it was discussed on Max Denver, the receivers are very balanced and that will be tough for opposing teams to plan for. Andrew Mason compared our group's style to that of the New Orleans Saints. I am excited for this to develop.
4. People Picking of Passes
Perrish "Doctor" Cox--and yes, I am now giving him the nickname Dr.--was repeatedly mentioned as making plays for the defense and picking off passes. Alphonso Smith reportedly had an interception every day. Word is, he just caught another one.
The list goes on, but one thing that McD and company set out to do when they arrived in Denver was upgrade and continually add quality depth to our defensive backfield. He has done just that. We have what I believe to be the NFL's best mix of veterans and young guys, and essentially the best secondary in the league.
I think with the new and improved defensive line, this group only becomes stronger.
5. Robert Ayers in and out of the Kennel
For a while, nothing could touch Robert Ayers. He was on the good graces of everyone on the coaching staff and in the media. The positive press was flowing like the salmon of Capastrano.
And then all of a sudden he was gone, and Josh McDaniels wouldn't discuss it.
Then he was back, and everything was peaches and cream. Whatever the case, it's good to know that Kevin Alexander (no offense, dude) will no longer be taking first team reps. I know that McDaniels' motto is "the best player will play," and if Alexander winds up playing, I'll defer to his knowledge, but if that happens we could be in some serious trouble.
Ayers is a guy I loathed entering the 2009 draft. I didn't like the idea of a project player converting from end to linebacker, and I didn't like the idea that he was a one year wonder. I also didn't like that he had work ethic problems, and I personally thought he played his senior season for a big paycheck.
Ayers' first season is being called a disappointment, but he wasn't on the field enough for me or anyone else to make that assumption, and to my knowledge, he wasn't held away from action last year due to lack of talent.
His playing time progressed as the year progressed, and as he became more comfortable. Now, Ayers' coverage skills have improved and he is ready for the big dance. A lot has been said about the Broncos' 2009 draft class being horriffic, but it's far too early to make that judgement.
6. Knowshon ain't no Shonn, but he might be better
Shonn Greene has taken the NFL by storm--without doing anything (except once donning the black and gold of Iowa). Greene had a nice post-season for the New York Jets, and all of a sudden he is being rumored as a Fantasy must-have.
I'm buying, but there's another second year back that I might just take before Greene, and that's Knowshon Moreno. Word out of camp is that Moreno is catching the ball better than he has before, he's more comfortable in the offense, he's hitting the hole harder (yes, I know--that's what she said), and those were all things we could tell hindered him in 2009.
Moreno isn't the fastest back, but he's powerful, smart, and a very high effort player with superb versatility. Some are predicting a 1,300 yard season with double digit scores. Not considering his receiving numbers could be quite nice.
7. Tight Ends dropping balls?
There seems to be a sudden craze surrounding our tight end position, in particular a concern with them catching passes. This is possibly something to read into, but I'm going to make my judgement when I see it at training camp. Daniel Graham has had some previous problems with his hands in Denver, Richard Quinn caught 12 balls in college, but both Riar Geer and Marquez Branson were pass receiving machines in college.
This could potentially be something to watch, but at least we know the blocking will be fantastic.
8. I heart the offensive line
There is uncertainty here, to be sure. Ryan Clady is--at least reportedly--a couple of months from full recovery. Based on the time of the injury and recovery time predicted by a surgeon I play basketball with, Clady should be able to work out by the mid-late portions of August. Even if he's not ready for the start of the season, I think the Broncos will have him by sometime early this season.
I'm no doctor, nor do I claim to know more than them, I am simply just passing along information I've been given.
Ryan Harris made a return to the practice field, which is encouraging. His toe injury could flare up, but let's hope that he takes it nice and easy and the medical staff doesn't let him push anything he's not ready for.
I really like the Zane Beadles pick. I know he's missed some blocks, but crap happens, and he's new to the game. He was dominant in college, and he will be a good left guard in the pros.
Oh, by the way, we signed right guard Chris Kuper to a five year extension and paid him some nice coin. Kuper struggled last year, but the front office and coaching staff have incredible faith in him.
J.D. Walton all but locked up the starting center position, which is good. Reports were that he was making calls already and familiar with everything centers have to do.
9. The Quarterbacks
Need I say more?
Apparently, Kyle Orton has been not only a class act throughout this whole quarterback ordeal, he has really stepped up his game. Perhaps that could be because he has a nice new crew of receivers to distribute the ball to. Whatever it is, this is an exciting development.
Brady Quinn apparently has a rocket launcher for an arm, but he has a little trouble controlling it. I still think he was a fine pickup this offseason.
Tebow's leadership, enthusiasm, work ethic, and arm strength have been nothing short of fantastic. He made a nice throw at the end of a two minute drill into triple coverage, which is good stuff. He's still having trouble reverting to his old mechanics, but that will come with repetition and time. I love that he is spending time after practice, after weight lifting to throw a hundred passes (give or take) with "Hands" and Ben McDaniels.
10. Colquitt wins punter job
To be honest, I thought this is what should have been last offseason. I thought Colquitt outplayed Brett Kern, and the punter position was extremely out of sorts last year.
Sometimes the punting position is overlooked on a football team, but Colquitt's efforts should not. If he can be an effective punter this season, the Broncos will be far better off. The game of chess that is football is won in THREE phases of the game, and special teams are absolutely critical.
Colquitt will have a chance to better a part of a Denver team that was absolutely abysmal in 2009.
Bonus: We're that much closer to training camp
That's pretty self explanatory.
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Great breakdown, Sayre
Rec’d & thanks
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
Thanks Brian
I appreciate it, man!
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jun 18, 2010 8:40 AM MDT up reply actions
Thanks Sayre...
…I’ve missed your articles lately! :) Good read, man. Happy Friday!!
There is only One Moment—this moment—the Eternal Moment of Now
Happy Friday!
Thanks for reading, I’ve missed writing them!
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jun 18, 2010 8:40 AM MDT up reply actions
IMO, The Season Rises Or Falls On The Offensive Line
Based on whats been reported, I’m encouraged by the news coming out about the Broncos, But, I’m very concerned about the offensive line. Not to sound too much like Walter Football but…
Ryan Harris – There is a real chance his toe will get reinjured his first year back. I hope not, but…
Chris Kuper – I was a bit disappointed by his performance last year. I don’t know if he’ll be better this year.
J.D. Walton – He’s a rookie and responsible for making line calls. He may be a stud, but there is no way he’ll reach his full potential in his first season.
Zane Beadles – Another rookie. He may become a stud but I’ve heard nothing to make me believe he’s a prodigy who’ll kick butt his first season on the line.
Ryan Clady – He may make it back on the field in August or early September but there is no way his leg will be at full strength for a long time.
Tyler Polumbus – I’m not impressed with what I’ve seen so far.
Eric Olsen – I don’t believe he’ll make an impact this year
Seth Olson – Has been progressing slowly and may end up being a bust.
Hochstein – I’m glad we got him, but he’s a backup not a starter.
I wouldn’t be surprise if we grabbed someone off the wire before the season start to provide experience and depth to the offensive line.
I’m very bullish on the Broncos Offensive line circa 2011, but I’m very concerned about it this year. Injuries and youth may be its downfall this season. I’m hoping for the best, but…
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..."
I have the daunting task of tackling the offensive line this year
Thankfully not literally. Make sure you tune in for my offensive line preview on June 21st. I’m not as pessimistic as some, but I have my own concerns.
PS, Seth Olsen—I wouldn’t say he’s a bust just yet. In the 4th-7th rounds, you want to draft quality depth and special teams guys, and you hope for a gem. I don’t know that he was expected to be a super-stud (though he did go to Iowa), and at the very least I think he will provide this team with solid depth for the future.
I agree totally on your assessments of Polumbus and Hochstein.
As for Harris, I’m not going to assume he’s going to get injured.
I think Kuper struggled, but is underrated.
If Walton reaches his full potential this season, he was a bad pick.
Beadles is not a prodigy, he’s just tough and smart, and dominated at Utah.
Clady may not be full strength, but I trust the medical staff not to rush him into action.
Eric Olsen—again, good quality depth.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jun 18, 2010 9:05 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm not sure I totally agree on Polumbus
I do agree on Hochstien.. Polumbus was LT at Colorado and that it probably a natural position for him. No he isn’t Clady, but he is an adequate fill in. Remember he was undrafted and has good raw skills. Beadles could also end up at LT if Clady can’t go, he’s also spent time there in the OTAs.
Main thing is McDaniels isn’t going to put an OL out there that he doesn’t feel good with and I’m good with that.
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
I thought Polumbus did a pretty good good coming in off of the bench in Harris' place...
He was no standout for sure and if he was Harris wouldn’t be playing, but Tyler is still young and developing and now he pretty well knows he’ll be taking Clady’s spot until he heals so he should be more prepared. What is this his third season and I felt he protected Kyle pretty good knowing Kyle’s pocket scrambling ability.
bfree
that is my take as well. Considering Tyler was an CFA coming out of college he’s actually done pretty well. He isn’t a dominate player, but given time and experience he just might me more than adequate.
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
I'm sure it'll be a good read
I’m sure I’ll enjoy your write up on the O-line and am eagerly looking forward to it. I’m not saying the offensive line won’t be good…but injuries and youth could weaken it this season.
As I said, I’m hoping for the best.
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..."
by Alan_Smithee on Jun 18, 2010 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Nice piece
and I look forward to your offensive line preview. I think the line will start slowly but will jell as Clady and Ryan get back in the groove and the younger players get more experienced. Maybe for once we’ll finish stronger than we started. I, too, think Kuper is underrated, and wonder how much his struggles were related not only to a shift away from Shanahan’s system but also to being on an island between Weigmann and Polumbus, who simply weren’t up to the job. If Walton starts at center as a rookie it means our depth there is thin, but since he’ll presumably continue to get better it would also suggest that we have the longterm answer at that position if he’s already the best player at that position. It’ll be interesting to see how that works out.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Very true
Our O-line is 2 rookies + 2 injuries + 1 veteran. So out of 5 players, we have 4 question marks. If I was our rivals fan, I’d be stoked about what their team has to face when they play Broncos.
Haha, funny you should say
Cause the D-lines we face inter-division are absolutely horrific.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jun 18, 2010 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions
"IMO, The Season Rises Or Falls On The Offensive Line "
Mostly agree. But: Kuper’s resigning surely means McD thinks he’s a good one. Polumbus struggled last year, but remember it was just his second year, and he rode the pine his first. Also, he was a LT in college and had to replace Harris at RT. Plus, the whole O line was struggling. Seth Olsen – progressing slowly? This will be his second year in the league, and it’s a good thing for rookie OL’s to sit for a year. Jury is still out on Seth.
It is of perhaps interest that our human genetic code is constructed by the exact same four nucleotides as every other form of life on the planet.
My Stroke Of Insight, by Jill Bolte Taylor, Ph.D.
Very nice post, Sayre. Thanks for all your work.
ivanthenotsobad said it very well when he mentioned that some of us don’t have the time to do posts like this – so we appreciate what you are doing. I echo that.
I liked your comments about D Thomas – especially after reading WF’s stuff yesterday.
My sense about Kuper is that he will be his old self with Harris to his right again. I think that Walton will be a stud – beating out Fry – but won’t peak until yr 3 or so. Maybe that is just a hope – but it feels right. The guy does a lot of the right things.
McJedi talks about Polumbus as being the guy for now at LT. My guess is that Beadles takes it away from him. He played a pretty good LT at Utah. I would love to see Beadles eventually take over LG. He may have to unseat Fry (he has played OG) or S Olsen to do so.
If we had Clady – Beadles – Walton – Kuper – Harris, I would feel much better. I would like to see enough development among the young guys to retire guys like Hochstein. Should Harris go down, UFA Marinelli played RT at Stanford – he is in the Toby Gerhart videos leading the blocking.
Thanks, Sayre.
Here's why I say Seth Olsen is progressing slowly...
During the mandatory minicamp rookie Beadles was working with the first team and 2nd-year Seth Olsen was working predominately with the second team.
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..."
by Alan_Smithee on Jun 18, 2010 5:57 PM MDT up reply actions
Okay
But it doesn’t mean much at this point. Just checking out Beadles for now. I hope all these guys are so good that we can maybe trade one.
It is of perhaps interest that our human genetic code is constructed by the exact same four nucleotides as every other form of life on the planet.
My Stroke Of Insight, by Jill Bolte Taylor, Ph.D.
Good work Sayre!
I agree mostly with the fact that the Oline will start slowly.
The thing is that with the complex blocking schemes that are used in the NFL the Oline is such a team within a team. So even if individuals are maybe not the greatest players they can with the right coaching form a unit that performs well above their own abilities combines.
Synergy right?
"The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game." - Derek Robinson
"You've got to get your first tackle in early, even if it's late." - Ray Gravell
Awesome
Thanks Sayre, I needed that article during this dull time of sports.
2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!
THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!
Funny how Bena is strategic like that
Position previews come out next week…go figure!
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jun 18, 2010 9:06 AM MDT up reply actions
Good work.
I like how you tend to qualify your statements, it shows you put a lot of thought into what you’re saying and are not just shooting from the hip.
I know the Haters get on you for being generally positive but there is a lot of stuff to feel good about this year, and it looks like the roster truly belongs to McDaniels now. the division will be more competitive this year so it’s not a moment too soon.
Every team has areas where improvement is needed but the question should be, are they getting addressed in some way and is the team as a whole moving forward or backward? In my opinion we’re moving forward.
Lets hope the good trends continue into training camp.
Why hate on your OWN team when you've got the Raiders?
Thanks Mastermind
My view is, if there’s nothing to be positive about, why bother? I’m not going to get my boxerbriefs in a bundle over football. It’s just not worth it anymore. I like to have fun with it and keep it optimistic. Some people hate it though, you’re right :)
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jun 18, 2010 9:08 AM MDT up reply actions
Good attitude
It’s not worth being a fan if you make yourself miserable with gloom and doom expectations and a negative spin on everything that happens. We’re fans, not scientists, and that means that every year hope springs anew. If you can’t be positive this time of year (as opposed to, say, December), when can you be? Right now as far as most of their fans are concerned we have a league made up of 32 teams that are above average.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
I thought Colquitt
won the punting job hands down in Camp last year too. I’m glad he came back for another shot. I expect Josh to make more mistakes, but I’m glad he can get over it and fix them.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Jun 18, 2010 9:18 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Great way to look at it Kirk
Couldn’t agree more… Except the part about more mistakes…. Wha? You must have meant make more mended fences… Y’know, getting over them and fixing them? Alright, the wit-well’s runnin’ dry apparently, that sounded better in my head. ( ;
But that is an excellent perspective, that I’ll have to adopt.
That's quite a long handle there, G Funk. - That's what she said.
First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jun 18, 2010 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions
Hi perspective
You can call me daddy now.
That's quite a long handle there, G Funk. - That's what she said.
First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jun 18, 2010 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree Kirk
Josh is far from perfect, but his mettle has been tested, and he’s had a year to learn how to correct mistakes.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jun 18, 2010 5:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Great write up Sayre
Thanks for the updates. Loved the insight into the WR’s.
Also, Is Andrew Mason back working for the Bronco’s?
I used to love his blogs and was gutted when the Bronco’s let him go. They were informative and put some thought and personality into what he was reporting.
On the plus side, if they hadn’t made him redundant I wouldn’t have searched the internet for a replacement and found MHR. Every cloud has a silver lining etc
Thanks CockneyBronco!
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jun 18, 2010 5:02 PM MDT up reply actions
well, it looks like Tebows mechanics are pretty much fixed
Isn’t he throwing like that on every play now? I would imagine after throwing the ball probably 10,000 times since the off season, his muscle memory has resolved itself!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
sadly, its not that easy
yes he’s thrown it hundreds/thousadnds of times the new way… but how many times did he throw it the “wrong” way before that? He has a decade-plus of “bad” habit to correct, and any reversion won’t happen in practice… unfortunately, as soon as his brain is busy checking the safety and looking for a dropping d-lineman on a zone-blitz, he could revert back to the old motion. And sadly, even the first time he accidently goes back to the old form, it probably erases 100s of times he does it right.
I’m guessing it is at least a year or 2 before the new motion is so ingrained that its 2nd nature… and that is assuming we’re not forcing him into situations where he must continue to use his old motion/reverts to form because his brain is doing other things.
by cjfarls on Jun 18, 2010 10:13 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Repeat what I said on other post on this point
Much has been said about changing his motion, but not enough said about what is really important—Tebow learning the system, and reading defenses. Someone who should know, and the qb that Tebow has often been compared to, Steve Young said that Tebow’s motion shouldn’t be a big deal. The most important thing according to him is anticipation—and that you get from throwing thousands of passes to your receivers, and being able to read defenses. Frankly, I don’t think it matters if Tebow gains some milliseconds in delivering the ball—there have been plenty of great qb’s that didn’t have model deliveries—and bad ones that did. What he brings to the position—mobility, extending the play, throwing on the run, and his leadership—are things you can’t teach or “acquire.” Look for JM to keep him under wraps until he has shown that he can anticipate where the “window” will be in the defense and get the ball there. Would it be “easier” to deliver the ball there if he modifies his delivery? Perhaps, but if he uses his natural motion, and can get the ball into the receiver’s hands, does it matter? I think Steve Young has a good point.
Only in one way
You’re absolutely right that the change in the motion only saves fractions of a second. There are still two problems, and one involves physics. According the the equations that Timothy Joy came up with, which the NFL uses, you have a .2 second window, on average, into which to get the pass accurately within the grasp of the receiver, so those fractions can be surprisingly important.
The second reason is that when he uses the bigger windup, the ball is more exposed than is safe in the NFL, increasing the likelihood that it can be stripped and he’s likely to have an increased number of fumbles as a result. Since both of those are fixed by the new motion, it’s a better option for him.
Gnothi Seauton
None of that was the real issue
and dweebs like Kiper who kept harping on his windup where just demonstrating their ignorance of QB mechanics.
Tebow’s real problems where that he arched his back, raising the front should and dropping the rear, he over-rotated his front shoulder, and he whipped his front arm around. Those mechanical flaws cost velocity and accuracy. In comparison the windup is trivial.
Roger Staubach and Ken Stabler both had big windups, as did a certain #7. Sure held them back.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Jun 18, 2010 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree with both Emmett and Slow
Yes, the tighter the motion, the less exposure, and also JM has been working on the rotation issue with Tebow, as there is no substitute for accuracy. But let’s put things in perspective. Can’t recall that Tebow got stripped much in a pretty good defensive conference, and was still No. 1 in the country for passing efficiency in 2009. He also tied Bradford for his career, with 88 TD’s and only 16 Interceptions—-evidently, he was getting the ball where it needed to go. Yes, in the NFL, the DL’s and LB’s are faster in rushing the passer, and the DB’s are quicker to the ball, but the OL’s are better too, and the WR’s run better routes, so it’s all relative. My point is that those that say that he will never be an NFL qb “because” of his motion, are both selling short his passing statistics in college (better than 5 former no. 1 qb draft picks), and have the short memory that SlowWhiteGuy remarks on.
"better than 5 former no. 1 qb draft picks"
Good information, but… do those 5 include Jamarcus Russel, et. al.? If you want your comment to have substance, you might name the 5.
It is of perhaps interest that our human genetic code is constructed by the exact same four nucleotides as every other form of life on the planet.
My Stroke Of Insight, by Jill Bolte Taylor, Ph.D.
Yes, it does and here are the five
Peyton Manning, Tim Couch, Eli Manning, JaMarcus Russell, and Matt Stafford. I think this is a perfect example of how having excellent mechanics (Tim Couch) is no guarantee that you will make it in the NFL. The point is that Tebow was far and away a better “passer” in college than any of these, and those that continue to harp on his mechanics as being the sole reason he won’t make it are devaluing is “body of work” in the toughest conference. Here is the complete article on this point:
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3171_A_tale_of_six_quarterbacks.html
In that respect his mechanics
are reminiscent of Jimmy Conners’ serve. I always thought the reason his service was the weakest part of his game was the way he arched his back, reaching back for the ball as he hit it, in effect pulling it forward rather than striking it out front. I noticed the big servers caught the ball further forward, so that they were falling into
it with the racket just having come over the top and starting down. But I never heard anybody else mention it, though, so I don’t know if that was a valid impression or not.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
I'm not sure if a tennis swing meets the basic requirements
but generally angular momentum is at its highest at the apex (antapex? nadir?) of the swing. In theory that would be top dead center, but the spin of a tennis ball would affect the calculations (and possibly the mechanics of the swing and racket…for example, when calculating angular momentum on a golf swing, club flex is absolutely essential to calculate or you will be orders of magnitude off.)
The football throw is very interesting to break down in terms of angular momentum, and the physics of the football itself, with multiple axis along which spinning forces can be calculated, and looking at different grips and general launch points… it can get complicated fast. But the long and short of it, is to watch for follow through. Without good follow through, precession (ducks) won’t be far behind…
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 20, 2010 12:00 AM MDT up reply actions
I've always thought
albeit due to my experience as a bowler rather than football thrower, that a poor follow-through is a symptom, not a cause. That is, if you’re throwing it right a good follow-through happens automatically, and if you’re not, consciously adding a follow-through won’t fix it. It’s a tip-off that your mechanics are good or bad, not per se the means to correct them. Or is that not the case with football?
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
Good question
I think you are right, personally, but I am not a coach. I think Steve or Slow could probably give you a better answer on that point.
I was only referring to viewing and analyzing the swing(throw). I will add that proper follow through (i.e. full extension of the throwing motion) indicates that the ball leaves the hand at the right point, in particular, it rotates off the hand, fingers, finally fingertips. This extra torque provided by the hand going through the whole throwing motion gives the ball enough spin to stay straight and fight precession forces. Without it you get long-axis wobble, i.e. ducks . As a viewer, the quickest way to make that analysis is to watch the follow through and work backwards.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 21, 2010 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions
note
this is only true of our wonderfully unique prolate spheroid. The round ball sports are much easier to constrain.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 21, 2010 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions
OK....ex tennis coach speaking here....but this brings up a good point...
When looking at Connor’s serve, you could determine that it was the “weakness” of his game, when looking at parts of his game in singular parts. But the fact is, when looking at Connor’s game as a whole, his serve was a good fit. He relied on slice and top spins serves because it provided him with great placement and consistency from which he would control the tempo of rallies with a great groundstroke game and under rated volley game. This was the reason he was such a GREAT player…he had a game that worked on all surfaces, that was relentless and that could be adjusted to suit.
When comparing this to Tebow, people look at his action and have conniption fits, but this is looking at one part of his game, and not how it fits in with the overall package he brings to the table. There are people EVERYWHERE looking at reasons to bring the kids game down, but look at this from persepctive. He is mobile, big, tough, mentally tough, good arm strength. So, already, he has a very good all round game, with MANY characteristics less than 10% of current QB’s have. Like Connos’s serve, Tebows arm and mechanics work great for his overall game, and yet, he is still trying to improve it even more.
Am I just seeing things different, because I am trying to understand it.
Connor’s was questioned on his serve, yet it always served him well. For many lower ranked players, they would have LOVED to own that serve. When all parts of your game are great, are we maybe crucifying a player for a part of his game that is merely very good????
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
I don't believe that to be true
Here is why:
I’m a desk jockey. Meaning at work I sit at a desk and type. When I go home, I type or play games. My fingers have years upon years of doing one particular motion. However, when I was learning to play guitar, my fingers had to move in a way that they had never moved before. It took roughly 3 months of practicing for my fingers to begin to move properly without me thinking about it, practicing for nearly an hour and a half each day.
Muscle memory is retained easier than you think, and Tebow is younger than me, which makes that muscle memory even easier. Just because you have years and even possibly more than a decade worth of doing a motion a wrong way, does not mean that it is hard to relearn a new way of doing things so that it is embedded into your muscles.
I believe Coach McD already stated that Tebows mechanics have been fixed already, he is just working on little things now.
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
It all depends...
… on how consistently he stays out of the old form… particularly in the OTAs and TC when his brain is doing other things.
We already know that Tebow at times in OTAs was criticized for reverting to his bad mechanics (I believe there was a case in a recent article where he threw a TD pass, but in film review got reamed for bad mechanics). This shows that when under pressure, he still reverts to form.
Can Tebow succeed without perfect mechanics? YES. Will it be easier for him to do so when the good mechanics are 2nd nature? YES. Is it possible that rushing him into doing to much could make it more difficult for him to change his mechanics? Yes again… and that is my only point.
I’d actually guess that Tebow’s mechanics are already better than they were… its not an on/off switch in all cases. Can they be better yet with more work… almost certainly.
difference between an amateur and a pro!
There used to be a saying (I think used in a variation on some commercial) that the difference between an amateur and a professional is that an amateur practices until he can do it right – a professional practices until he can’t do it wrong.
Tebow is now a professional. Should be able to work out the kinks. But agree with you, it could take a while. And lack of pressure is best.
by ivanthenotsobad on Jun 18, 2010 4:53 PM MDT up reply actions
"Muscle memory is retained easier than you think"
That’s the problem. When you learned playing the guitar you weren’t unlearning a previous way of playing it. Your muscle memory for typing and playing games is unrelated so doesn’t have to be unlearned in order to play the guitar. When the muscle memory you’re trying to learn is competing with a pre-existing muscle memory doing the same thing, it’s much harder and it’s easy to revert to the earlier pattern of movement.
I speak from experience. When I left the Henderson, Kentucky area in 1967 I had been bowling less than a year and was averaging 186 in one league and 193 in another. But I hadn’t been bowling long enough for that pattern of movement to be locked in. The lane conditions at the bowling alley I started bowling at in Oregon were different, I was too new to bowling to realize that and that it was affecting the way my ball broke, and I tried to compensate and ruined my mechanics. By the time I realized what had happened my muscle memory for the new (far less effective) pattern of movement was locked in and to this day I haven’t been able to get back to my earlier timing and mechanics. It’s not a matter of not being able to consistently throw with the earlier timing. I can’t do it at all. When I try my body compensates during the approach to get back to the timing it’s used to. And if I’m partially successful while concentrating solely on my mechanics and then start keeping score it all goes to hell. It’s maddening.
I think Tebow will be okay, because unlike me he has guys who are really good watching him, tutoring him, correcting him whenever he does it wrong and reinforcing him when he does it right, staying on top of him the whole time. But I take seriously the notion that he needs to do it over and over until the new muscle memory is ingrained and second nature in place of the previous pattern of movement before he has to do it in game conditions, where he could otherwise very easily backslide.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
I don't think so
From what McDaniels has said, he has quite a bit to work out. Nothing to worry about, I don’t think.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jun 18, 2010 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions
thanks amigo
i have to say that your articles are in general the best on MHR over the last few months….and i pretty much read them all.
thanks for all the time im sure you put into it.
go broncos!
Wow, thanks chancie
I really appreciate that!
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jun 18, 2010 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Woohoo!
Go Broncos
First off! Good job on “Salmon of Capistrano” reference. This should be used once every ten or so articles.
Second, the team is really taking shape. A lot of people stated how a lot of the Broncos needed to make a huge leap either in their 2nd year in the NFL or 2nd year in the system. I believe Knowshon, Ayers, Alphonso Smith, and Jarvis Moss are making this leap we needed.
Finally, your starting center for 2010 J.D. Walton. The guy is everything I thought he would be and more.
"No more my bad just make the play"-McJedi
by RockyMountainThunder on Jun 18, 2010 10:17 AM MDT reply actions
Thanks RMT
Gotta love Dumb and Dumber references!
I love how this team is taking shape. In my opinion, there is a TON to look forward to.
J.D. Walton sounds like a smart, tough dude. I am excited to see him play this year, open up some holes for our RB corps.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jun 18, 2010 5:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Alphonso picked off a pass every day!?
I didn’t hear that exactly, but if it’s true, that bodes well!
Moss is 6’ 7"!?!? I guess I missed that fact (or more likely have slept so many times since I learned it, that that file was overwritten)……
Great thoughts to put out there! Appreciate the post Sayre, it’s writing like this, that I will never get enough of.
That's quite a long handle there, G Funk. - That's what she said.
First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jun 18, 2010 10:27 AM MDT reply actions
Er something like that
Basically, I read that he was picking off passes left and right.
Moss, at least as far as I know, is listed at 6’7".
Thanks for your comment, I’m glad you enjoyed it!
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jun 18, 2010 5:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Great article Sayre and rec'd. Although you are very talented at it, I'm glad it wasn't mock draft related :).
I am also very optimistic about this team and can’t wait for the season to start. I am not optimistic that Royal will be the new and improved Wes Welker because I’m not really sure how you improve much on what Welker has done from the slot position but if it were to happen then I would think he would have exceeded everyones expectations. Personally if he can come close to 80-90 catches he would already have surpassed my expectations by about 20-30 catches. I do think it is a better fit for Royal but I don’t think he’ll produce quite as much as people think. Good stuff though.
Thanks BM
I think Royal will be “new and improved” because of his better speed and quickness. It’s no question Wes Welker is very athletic, but Royal seems to have a better spring in his step. He will be a force for us.
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jun 18, 2010 5:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks for the story, Sayer
I think the Offensive line will be our biggest problem this year. We are big and strong but we have the possibility of two rookies starting in the middle. That will be attacked each and every week until they prove they can handle it. I really think Beadles can handle them. I don’t know much about Walton but if the reports i am hearing out of camp are true he will make me forget my worries about the line.
The group that makes it easy to be a Broncos fan is the wide receivers. I honestly can not remember a time when I was this excited to see the Broncos wide outs play. From top to bottom this could be the most exciting, and talented, group we have ever had.
The group that gives me the most indigestion has to be the linebackers. I had all but written off Jarvis Moss as a training camp cut and then he gets all professional on us and grabs, perhaps temporarily, a starting spot. I had a prediction that the Stormin Mormon would grab the starting spot vacated by Davis. Proved wrong twice in one position group? I was hurting to admit that.
The group I find the most fun? The quarterbacks. Kyle Orton has been like the Uncle that stays at you house to long after Christmas is over. The writing was on the wall with the pick of Tebow. (I still think Quinn was just supposed to be the backup. A replacement for Simms) Orton has just put together a great preseason, much like Jake Plummer did the year that he was replaced.
Again, great article, Sayer and rec"ed
Floating on Ships is what the Navy did to pass the time while waiting for Naval Aviation to be born!
Great article and think that
what you said about 2011 is very true. The real question is what happens if the team is 8-8 again this year. I really think the powers that be see the team for what it is, in a building process, and will give JM through 2011 to produce— meaning into the play-offs at a minimum.
Your'e calling Perrish Cox
Dr. Cox? That sounds like a character in an Andy Sidaris “Lethal L.A.D.I.E.S” movie or something like that. I would rethink that nickname.
I do agree with Demaryius, though. The Sporting News had him rated as the #1 receiver in the draft this year. I am excited about him and Decker. That is going to be an awesome tandem.
I also have to commend Moss for his effort. Maybe he will fit somewhere on this team after all. If he can be a pass rush specialist and contribute several sacks a year, that would be good.
lol!
Dr. Cox is a character on Scrubs, my favorite TV show. Haha
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jun 18, 2010 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Perrish Cox
And Dr. Cox of Scrubs first name is…Perry! Great Nickname Sayer
"It's okay to eat fish, 'cause they don't have any feelings" - Kurt Kobain
by JChase8410 on Jun 18, 2010 4:28 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Orton's problem last year
was a high ankle sprain. If we take a look at his games before his injury in the Washington game, we will see a different Orton than the one we expected to be coming back this year, mainly because of his performance while playing through the injury.
The final game last season against KC should have been a harbinger of that to us. Yes, Orton threw three INTs, but only one was the result of a bad pass. Another was just a fantastic play by a Pro Bowl linebacker, and the third was where he had no choice but to force a pass in catch-up mode (garbage time, in other words). Meanwhile, however, he threw for 431 yards and should have had two TDs instead of one, had not the second one been prevented by defensive pass interference.
Something else Orton showed in that game was mobility – and he really was something else. Does anyone remember the play where the DE came in on him, as he was trying to pass, and he spun out of the DE’s grasp, right into the grasp of another defender, then spun the other way out of that grasp? Another time he did an “Elway,” spinning to his left and then 180 degrees back right, ran out to the right flank, and threw the ball 30 yards.
So we think we might be watching a different Orton this year? Nope, not a different one. Just a healthy one. I hope . . .
P.S. Enjoyed your post, Sayre!
-
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
Nice read Sayre,
Enjoyed the needed respit from my Friday work
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
Here's the question
If the Ryans are both healthy, and we start Beadles and Walton, is our O-line better than it was last year? Personally, I think so. The problem is, both Ryans will not be healthy, which makes me feel our O-line could potentially be equal or worse than last year. I am the most concerned about our O-line.
Did we do the best we could in the off-season to fix the problems from last year? I think aside from trying to sign a high profile free agent, yes we did the best we could. But the injury to Clady is such an enormous blow. I think that alone is a huge counter against any improvements made through the draft. Unless these rookies turn out to have an outstanding rookie year (like Clady), we will experience some O-line problems this year.
"I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Stay Puft!"
Thanks Sayre
I love your posts (even the mock drafts) for the wealth of information you provide. I, like many, don’t have the time, energy of ability to do it. So you do us a big favor.
I’m looking forward to your article on the OL. Like many posters, I regard it as one of the most important ingredients for success. And also, like many posters, I think the OL will be a work in progress, at least at the beginning of the year, because of the injuries and the inexperience. However, that said, I still regard it as an upgrade from last year’s OL which IMO had glaring weaknesses at OC and LG. Losing Harris didn’t help. IMO even the play of Kuper and Clady was affected by these other weaknesses. I look forward to your take.
BTW rec’d and keep the stuff coming.
by ivanthenotsobad on Jun 18, 2010 1:56 PM MDT reply actions
Sorry if this appears to be trollish...
but dude it is the “swallows of capitstrano.”
Sayeth the towns website: The miracle of the “Swallows” of Capistrano takes place each year at the Mission San Juan Capistano, on March 19th, St. Joseph’s Day."
That said, I am always going to refer to it as the salmon of Capistrano, because I love fractured expressions, as one who always gets my mords wixed up.
"Kool-Aid Kool Aid, Tastes Great, We Want Kool Aid, Can't Wait"
by littletinybroncos on Jun 18, 2010 3:06 PM MDT reply actions
Not on Dumb and Dumber it's not!
:D
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
by Sayre Bedinger on Jun 18, 2010 3:12 PM MDT up reply actions
weren't they the guys
with the rapist wit?
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 18, 2010 4:13 PM MDT up reply actions
You managed to make the Robert Ayers point a positive. It’s too early to be Kool-Aid drunk on Friday.
I am happy to report that there is much better mojo around Denver right now than a team like SD, the Jets or Jags. The Elvis thing speak to a locker room that is probably in the best shape it has been since McD came aboard. I would think that will pay off at some point.
Can’t wait for training camp.
Side note: I’d love to take that official from today’s USA soccer game out behind the shed and put him down for good. What a crook he is. After seeing the NBA finals (pathetic game 7 and finals) football has such a good thing going right now vs other professional sports.
I'm rooting for Team USA at the World Cup!
I'll join you, McGeorge.
One of the guys on the US side was in a headlock about 6 feet in front of him.
Tim Lynch could be right. Maybe things are fixed.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
I'm with you too, McG.
That final goal that was called back was ridiculous. Nobody on the pitch even knew what the call was because the ref never told anyone what he was calling. It’s one thing to make up a foul. It’s another thing all together to not tell someone what you made up. Either lie or take back the call. Don’t just clam up. Outrageous. If a ref can’t tell anybody what he is calling, then the foul is probably bogus.
Let’s not forget that “handball” where Findley was given a yellow card after the ball hit him in the face. Now, he can’t play in the final game of the round robin next week. The foul not only took away a corner kick opportunity from the US, it also affects next week’s game.
I’m raging right now. Frankly, I don’t know how you do it so often, McGeorge. Rage isn’t usually my default setting, but this is exhausting.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Jun 18, 2010 4:25 PM MDT up reply actions
TOTAL BS
I WAS READY TO THROW MY TV THROUGH THE WINDOW!
ABSOLUTE RUBBISH OFFICIATING!!!
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Jun 18, 2010 5:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Agreed McG...and the red card handed out to Harry Kewell was absolute BS...thats why I hate soccer...notoriously crappy calls and bad acting!
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
Props
Sayre, GREAT post. Very useful information given in an organized way. Superb way to get a Broncos fix in a slow part of the season. You deserve every Rec’d you got brotha.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
any word on running back
has anyone got any knowledge of how the running back, toney baker is doing so far? on tape, the closest i’ve seen to terrell davis. hope he’s doing well so far.
Jarvis Moss
He’s definitely got the goods, he jsut needs to as you have said “put it together”. I definitely saw some nice work by him in preseason last year. Remember he was a long shot to make the team but in the end he pulled it off. Here’s hoping he can continue to make strides.
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
Sorry I late to the dance Sayre, awesome piece of work.
Why do I have this great feeling that Kyle Orton and Brandon Lloyd are going to have a great hook up year? You mentioned Gaffney having such and I can agree with that because with a year of timing and getting used to one another they should get better. One who has me concerned some is Eddie Royal. I get this feeling he isn’t going to have the kind of year most think. I really don’t want him returning P/Ks this year, let one of the rookies do it or McKinley.

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