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One More For The Defensive Line?

 If I were to ask you what was our worst group on the field last year, what would you say? Offensive line? Quarterbacks? Linebackers? I am willing to bet that the majority of MHR would say that the Defensive line was the worst group on the field last year. They started off fine, but took a huge nose dive towards the end of the season. Fixing the d-line was 1 of the top priorities headed into the off season.

On the first day of free agency, Denver got on the jump and eventually signed defensive lineman Justin Bannan, Jamal Williams, and Jarvis Green. The D-line looked much better with the addition of those 3 veterans. However, what if I said we could get 1 more quality veteran?

Intrigued? More after the jump

Star-divide

Our current roster has about 80 players. Of those players, here are the defensive lineman:

 

Chris Baker, 2 years experience, age: 22

Justin Bannan, 9 years experience, age: 31

Ronald Fields, 6 years experience, age: 28

Ben Garland, Rookie, age: 22

Jarvis Green, 9 years experience, age: 31

Ryan McBean, 3 years experience, age: 26

LeKevin Smith, 5 years experience, age: 27

Jeff Stehle, Rookie, age: 23

Marcus Thomas, 4 years experience, age: 24

Jamal Williams, 13 years experience, age: 34

 

So here is a little breakdown. As of right now, we have 10 defensive lineman on the team, or approximately 1/8th of the roster. Of those 10 players, I would guess that Garland and Stehle are going to be part of the roster cuts. That puts our team down to 8. On a side note, I hope that we put one if not both of them on our practice squad. Particularly Stehle because he is 6 ft 6, 310 pounds. Anyway, our depth looks like this

 

Defensive End

Justin Bannan

Jarvis Green

Ryan McBean

Le Kevis Smith

Marcus Thomas

Defensive Tackle

Jamal Williams

Ronald Fields

Chris Baker

 

Several of these players are versatile enough to play both Defensive End and Defensive Tackle (Ronald Fields, Justin Bannan, Marcus Thomas, etc) With that being said, one of our biggest problems last season was the nose tackle position. This year we have Jamal Williams. However, I am not comfortable with the depth behind him. At 34 years of age, his health is a reasonable concern.

Therefore, I propose we go get another player to back him up. You might be asking "who are we going to get this late into the off season that is any good?" Just so happens that the Chargers gave us a big, backup gift today.

Today, the Chargers released DT Ian Scott. He is 28 years old. He stands at 6 ft 3, 315 lbs. After spending 4 years in Chicago, Ian has been the backup for Jamal Williams for two years in San Diego. Last year, Ian got plenty of time after Jamal went down. Here are his stats:

 

Year Team G Comb Total Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int TDs Yds Avg Lng
2009 San Diego Chargers 12 16 14 2 1.0 -- 2 -- -- -- 0.0 --
2008 San Diego Chargers 4 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 0.0 --
2006 Chicago Bears 15 22 15 7 0.0 -- 6 -- -- -- 0.0 --
2005 Chicago Bears 14 27 17 10 0.0 -- 4 1 0 3 3.0 3
2004 Chicago Bears 14 44 34 10 2.0 -- 3 -- -- -- 0.0 --
2003 Chicago Bears 6 2 2 0 0.0 -- 0 -- -- -- 0.0 --

 

TOTAL                        65 111      82      29   3.0      0     15       1    0       3      --     3

 

As you can see, Ian is not a heavy impact guy. He isn't going to cause fear in the hearts of his opponents. His stats reflect that of a backup nose tackle. Although, the number of pass deflections are impressive. He is experienced, he has a good rapport with Jamal Williams, and most importantly, he came from the Chargers. I don't know about you, but when I got cut from my 7th grade basketball team, I worked twice as hard and made the team in 8th grade and gave a little "HA-HA" to the coach that cut me. Williams and Ian would give us solid depth at the nose tackle position. I think it would be well worth it for Denver to look into signing Ian.

The question is, if he signs, who gets cut? My bet is Le Kevin Smith. He is coming off injury and he didn't have that much of an impact last season. I would seriously consider swapping Ian for Le Kevin. Then again, that's is up to the FO to decide. But, I pose this question to you MHR. Do you think we should sign Ian Scott?

On a final, side note, the Chargers are betting an awful lot on rookie Cam Thomas. Releasing Ian makes little sense to me. From what I have read, he has been taking first team reps all off season. He would be a solid back up at the least. I don't understand the move, but I hope that Denver capitalizes on it.

Poll
Should We Sign Ian Scott?
Yes, He is good NT depth
85 votes
No, We are Good As Is
104 votes

189 votes | Poll has closed

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

Comment 53 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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i have a questio

Tebow + Moreno = #1 rushing attack

by Pmoreno95 on Jun 21, 2010 11:31 PM MDT via mobile reply actions  

question (sorry about that)

Does he fit the Mcd mold?

Tebow + Moreno = #1 rushing attack

by Pmoreno95 on Jun 21, 2010 11:32 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

I couldn't find anything that would suggest he isn't a McD guy

BroncoTillIDie = Nick Castillo
October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
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by Nick Cast on Jun 21, 2010 11:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

then sure

And let the d-line fight for there spot on the 53 man roster

Tebow + Moreno = #1 rushing attack

by Pmoreno95 on Jun 21, 2010 11:53 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Nope, I don’t get what you mean… I’ve never been cut or fired from anything :)

Seems logical. I haven’t learned enough about the guy to make a real statement. I’d say Williams, Fields and Bannan make a nice group. I’m not sure we need another guy. We could use this guy for competition, and as you said (and I’m a firm believer), most times a guy moving to a different team is more motivated (especially against his old team).

The man played last year, and even started. I don’t see his price tag as a reasonable expense. He’ll want I guess what we might call “backup money”, even though we only need him to be a backup’s backup. For that reason, and for that reason alone, I’ve got to vote no. Not that we don’t want him, but that it’s not a likely pickup.

It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)

by Alex on Jun 21, 2010 11:38 PM MDT reply actions  

haha then I guess your just good at everything!

I think he could be a good backup for Williams. At his age, Williams is more likely to go down with an injury this year. If that happens then we really don’t have a strong backup. I think Scott could be that strong back up. I think he could beat someone like Fields for the back up role. If nothing else, sign him and bring him in for a try out. If he beats out Fields then keep all 3 and cut someone like Le Kevin Smith. That way we have Williams (the vet), and Scott/Fields (the backup). I don’t think he would fetch that big of a price.

BroncoTillIDie = Nick Castillo
October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Last Name: Ever First Name: Greatest

by Nick Cast on Jun 21, 2010 11:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hmm.

I just don’t see him bringing much more into play than Ronald Fields does… granted, I’m a bit higher on Fields than you seem to be, but I still think he (Fields) showed real potential last year. And as we’ve seen with Jamal Williams, 6 years is still young for an off and on used DT. I hope that another year in the 3-4 and under Jamal will help him grow even more.

by Mcbeth149 on Jun 21, 2010 11:47 PM MDT reply actions  

I'm not down on Fields

but I wouldn’t exactly be comfortable if he were asked to be our starting nose. I think rotating Jamal with Fields/Scott would preserve Jamal for the whole season and give Fields/Scott more experience. Again, I think the possibility of signing Scott is intriguing. You can never have enough big, strong DT’s in a 3-4 system.

BroncoTillIDie = Nick Castillo
October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Last Name: Ever First Name: Greatest

by Nick Cast on Jun 21, 2010 11:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

Fields was not the problem last year...

You need to look at Kenny Peterson, and McBean was not all he was cracked up to be. Fields was a solid contributor, and with him and Chris Baker why would we go after Ian Scott who brings nothing more to the table?

You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!

by boydy2669 on Jun 22, 2010 6:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

"McBean was not all he was cracked up to be" ?

I don’t recall McBean being cracked up to being anything. He’d spent a little time on the Steelers PS, then ours. Last year was his first to get any playing time.

It is of perhaps interest that our human genetic code is constructed by the exact same four nucleotides as every other form of life on the planet.
My Stroke Of Insight, by Jill Bolte Taylor, Ph.D.

by bradley on Jun 22, 2010 9:05 AM MDT up reply actions  

We lost when McBean went down

Could be coincidence, might not be. He played well for the most part – an unexpected nice player.

I’m not hearing much about Chris Baker backing up Jamal W., but I think that’s the scenario that we’ll see. Fields could go anywhere – probably in the NT rotation, but he has DE skills as well. Frankly, half our guys could play NT or DE, and you have to love that. Talk about versatile….

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jun 22, 2010 9:35 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

He developed quickly

Maybe he has a ceiling looming, but you can’t say enough about how quickly he has developed. we aren’t talking a football lifer here, he has very little experience playing football, and even less doing what Denver is asking him to do on the DL.

Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?

by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 22, 2010 2:53 PM MDT up reply actions  

I saw yesterday that they are using him on RDE

They are rotating him with Green, was the upshot of the article. I liked hearing that – He’s a little light for LDE, but given the personnel that were available last year, he was a very good choice at LDE at that time. I suspect that he’ll be even better at his more natural position in terms of physical size.

I’m starting to wonder if the word ‘starter’ even has any meaning in the DL rotations that we have available. Bannan can go anywhere – he’s the proverbial 600 lb gorilla (Where does he sit on the bus? Anywhere he wants to….) – LDE, which is probably his most natural position, NT, which he played very well and RDE if for some reason they want//need him there. J. Williams will only play NT, and probably only 2 downs, but that’s plenty. Fields has played DE and NT and will probably back up J. Williams, but if they choose to put in Chris Baker to back up Jamal, that would be just fine, given Baker’s size. Baker, too, has experience at DE as well as NT. Ditto M. Thomas.

Since Denver went with a 4-3 on certain plays and in certain situations, the idea of any 4 of those fellows out on the field with Ayers, Haggan and Doom doesn’t exactly sound bad either. It seems worth noting that Denver has gone, in two offseasons and one only a partial, from a team of overly light players who were fairly speedy and who didn’t really have a defensive philosophy or system to a team of some serious beef with an actual defensive scheme and a killer secondary. While it’s perfectly fair to argue about this player or that, this deal or that, taking a moment to look at the overall changes and personnel leaves me pleasantly surprised (nearly shocked) at how complete the changeover is. I’d love to see a new ILB (preferably on DJ Williams’ side, as things stand now) and I look forward to seeing if Baraka Atkins or Jammie Kirlew are going to pan out, as both are changing positions as well as Kirlew stepping into the NFL, I still am very impressed with the ‘makeover’ that has taken place.

Some of our ‘unknowns’ will be interesting to watch – I don’t expect miracles, but as an example, we haven’t even mentioned David Bruce. At 6’3 and 252, he was a first-team All-Pacific-10 selection as a senior at UCLA, Davis finished his Bruins career ranked second in school history with 29 sacks. He was drafted in the third round by Pittsburgh and got in 5 games for them before working in New England off of their practice squad. Sometimes you just need the right situation, as McBean showed. We also have Kevin Alexander fighting for a LB slot, a UDFA out of Clemson (is it just me, or are we getting a lot of looks at Clemson players?) who is 6’4 and 265, who started during his final two years at Clemson and did not miss a game during his collegiate career to injury.There’s also Devin Bishop, whose brother plays for Green Bay and whose father played for the USFL, back in the day. He’s small and light at 6’1 and 239, but may have some coverage skills. Either way – it’s going to be a great training camp.

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jun 22, 2010 9:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

Indeed

I wonder about ‘starter’ as well. Specifically, it seemed like the DL rotations last year were kept together, that is, the ‘starting’ unit (the ones who began the game) were kept together throughout, usually as a 1st down, 2nd down group, followed by a nickle group, and then after maybe two-three series, the second 1st-2nd down DL rotation would come in. The groupings were pretty much kept the same, and looking at the need to limit Williams reps and possibly involve Green more on 3rd down has me doing all sorts of squirrely rotation projections.

Does Martindale stick to the philosophy of keeping groups together (thus getting a “starting unit” and a backup unit), or does he swoop and swap at will? I could see a strange dynamic where Baker was a #3 NG/NT, but actually played as more of a #2.5 if that makes sense, with Williams as a #.5 rather than the #1. It is even weirder at RDE where McBean could be a #1.5, with Jarvis as not only the #.5, but the #2.5 as well. Are you confused? :) I am.

Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?

by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 23, 2010 3:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

All good points Em, Jeremy and Bradley. Thanks!

You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!

by boydy2669 on Jun 23, 2010 6:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

re: OLB, Bruce Davis, etc.

OLB is probably the most interesting position to follow right now, despite the seemingly almost casual attention given to it by the Broncos in the offseason acquisitions/draft.

It’s an interesting group: Davis, Kirlew, Moss, Atkins & Alexander. And I’m leaving out Dumervil, Ayers and Reid, although Reid isn’t a lock.

Most of my thoughts go to the attributes of the group as a whole, since I specifically eschew thinking primarily in a platoon schema for this position. Davis strikes me as in the Moss mold, based on my own superficial impression. And I’d like to see them add to their pass rushing ability while concomitantly improving upon Dumervil’s run defense deficiency. There’s a lot of interesting attributes in the group — such as Alexander’s strength — so there’s a lot of interesting ways we could ‘fill out’ the attributes of the group.

I didn’t have a long post here but your post prompted me. There are certain positions that are more readily ‘discussible," and OLB is one of them. A possible post on ’roster hot spots’ occurred to me. I’d add the total DBs question, the OL total number question, the total number of WRs, and the RB question (numbers & attributes) as possible ‘hot spots’ worthy of discussion.

BTW – one of the ideas I’ve had is ‘avoiding half solutions.’ OLB is clearly an impact position in the 3-4 and thus an important position but the roster presence of Dumervil and Ayers means that we wouldn’t want to spend excessively for backups — especially with Dumervil’s situation unsettled. A high pick may be in the offing down the road but there’s no sense in crowding our starters at this point. Moss’ situation is also a consideration for this year. All I can say right now is that its an interesting group. And next year’s draft offers some interesting possibilities — as in yet another Quinn, and others. I see a hole at OLB that provides an opportunity for many solutions.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jun 24, 2010 8:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

Total numbers

when you do the math, there isn’t as much felxibility in the number of payers at various positions as it might initially seem.

Look at DB – the Broncos want to be able to play dime packages so they need a minimum of 4 active CBs. Likewise they need a minimum of 3 active safeties so they can play big nickle. That’s seven active DBs. Add one more at each position in case of injury and you get a minimum of 9 DBs. Roster demands for other positions make it impractical to carry more than 10 DBs. So it really becomes a question of 9 or 10 DBs.

You can run a similar analysis of WRs and find that they really can only afford to carry 5 or 6 WRs.

The only thing that would alter these numbers is if you had a really dynamic STs player in which case the team is really opting to dedicate a roster spot to a STs player more than increasing the numbers at the player’s nominal position.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jun 25, 2010 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

you're right

I think the problem that some people run into is in assuming that our numbers were balanced last year. Larsen was listed (and played) on both the offense and defense, so we had an extra RB because of his use on offense.

I believe that I was even tripped up on this at one point, but I also use an easy schematic representation to prevent this from happening. I also use a RB + WR = 10 heuristic, which I invented to solve the problem.

The reason that RBs + WRs (tend to) add up to ten is because QB = 3, TEs = 3 (usually), and OLs = 9 (often). That leaves 10 for the RBs and WRs. It’s not unusual to see teams go with more of less OLs but the ‘backup problem’ becomes an issue if there isn’t an OL versatile enough to handle more than one position. Hochstein’s presence on the roster is probably due to this.

Here’s last year’s roster configuration: QB – 3, WR = 6, TE – 3, RB – 4½*, OL – 9(OT – 4, OG – 4, OC – 1); DL – 7, LB – 8½*(OLB – 5, ILB – 3½), DB – 9(CB – 4, S – 5).

OFFENSE = 25½, DEFENSE = 24½, SPECIALISTS = 3

Curiously, my suggestion that we look at OT/OG hybrids in the draft was motivated by this numbers’ crunch. The objective was to keep the OL numbers down but also carry adequate OT backup while at the same time address our needs at OG. The choice of Beadles was an attempt to address the backup problem in this way, and McDaniels alludes to it at the conclusion of the draft.

PDF

On OL Zane Beadles’ Role

"We’re going to put him at tackle and he will also play guard. Ultimately, what we want to do is create competition at every spot that we can so that the best five players in September are the guys that are out there. That’s what the goal will be. So, if he happens to be one of the best five at guard and not one of the best five playing tackle, then he may have the opportunity to win a spot there, and we’ll have to worry about the third or fourth tackle position if we have to do something based on an injury. He’s played left tackle, but we feel that he could compete at both (right and left). Maybe a little more of a right tackle than a left tackle, but he has played a lot of football at the left side and he’s got the skills to be able to do both. We like his versatility."

On the offensive line


"Like I said, Olsen’s more of a guard to center. I know he played center last year, but in ’08 he played all guard. I think we’ll start him at guard. He’ll probably have an opportunity to come in and compete at both. J. D. Walton will certainly play center first and then move out to guard, as well. We want to be able to move those players in and out. With (OL) Russ Hochstein and (OC)Dustin Fry, it’s the same thing. We’re going to give everybody an opportunity to compete. I think what we did that’s really improved the competition at that spot is that we got bigger. I think that was a goal for us, both to assist us and protect us in the pocket, and then also being able to run the football."

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jun 26, 2010 3:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

"avoiding half solutions"

I think this is a wise angle, and something we have seen X and co. doing.

OLB is our biggest opportunity spot on the roster, in my mind. DOOM Ayers, that is it as far as long term commitments (fingers crossed). OT is another opportunity position, with Clady, maybe Harris. ILB also qualifies as an opportunity posiiton with DJ, maybe Haggan. DB most certainly is not, QB not even close, WR and RB no way, interior linemen on both sides, not really, though DL can be nudged over the line with a good push.

I think that OLB, ILB and OT can be played against each other, to our advantage, similar to how we handled the DL last year. If I am not mistaken, the temporary structure concept applies here. OLB had the TempStructure feeling to it last year, as did DL. I am unsure how to classify OL building last year, since we had some surprises to deal with. I honestly don’t think they had OL on the list of things to be addressing until the last weeks of TC. If I had to guess I would say Temp Structure for interior OL.

They are throwing a lot of bodies at OLB, and a lot of different skillsets, and they should come out of it with a fine tuning of their needs in the area, even if they don’t get any new players out of it. Projecting a Doom, Ayers, Moss, Reid OLB corp is the easy part, since Moss and Reid both play 3rd downs (Reid actually played inside as a DT in the nickel last year) and STs. Moss is obviously a bubble, but I am referring to his skillset. We can call him Jammie to. Denver’s work at OLB feels like reconnaissance to me. Hopefully there are targets worth acquiring going forward.

Meanwhile, OT seems like a sit tight position, yet we have little depth, especially with Beadles projected to start. Harris is a free agent next year, and there hasn’t been a glimmer of communications, which also feeds into the “wait and see” approach.

Bottom line I could see us going with one less OT or OLB, or both. ILB has already been the choice for early cutdown, and I think they have their TC group there.

Question: Projected numbers for our LB corp are 5OLB, 4ILB. What would you think about 4OLB, 4ILB? It suits them as opportunity positions, while allowing Denver to do unique things with the roster elsewhere.

Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?

by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 25, 2010 4:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

I could see

4-OLB and 3-ILB. It is becoming an increasingly pass oriented league and with more and more teams going 4 and even 5 wide the nickle is becoming almost a base formation against some teams. Given that, substituting a 3rd safety for an ILB just makes sense.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jun 25, 2010 5:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

options

I could see 4 OLBs, and the entire OLB competition could be boiled down to vying for Moss’ spot.

R-OLB is biggest impact position besides NT in the 3-4 but we haven’t gotten the production from the ‘situational reserves.’ It would be nice to find one good pass rusher out of the group.

Re: ILB numbers. Besides the fact that we carried 3 last year (although few noticed), the tendency to go with a DB instead makes it unnecessary to carry situational depth because the assignments aren’t there. This is the 2-down problem that has reduced the value of ILBs in the draft.

One of my pet ideas is the S/LB hybrid, which is essentially a Big Nickel (I didn’t know that when I thought of it). The point was to solve the ‘coverage problem’ for LBs by going in the opposite direction, i.e., by using big DBs who could handle LB tasks rather than trying to find LBs who can cover.

Besides the considerations related to coverage, it’s easier to give up the L-ILB position’s assignments entirely and give the roster spot to a DB. And this doesn’t necessarily mean adding a tenth DB since we can handle the duties with our existing personnel, e.g., Barrett, Bruton.

Positional considerations only take us so far in deciding the final roster spots. Thompson, Barrett and the Moss et al group offer different STs possibilities that might justify putting them on the roster. There’s probably two decisions to make in this area — one; between Barrett and Thompson on the last DB spot, whether that be for the 9th or 10th, and two; for the 4th and 5th OLB spots. The DL number seems stuck at 7, with Smith on the bubble, so it’s just a question of who can help us the most. I haven’t seen them play yet so I can’t offer a guess, and whether we’ll have 24½ or 25 is still an open question.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jun 26, 2010 7:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

STs considerations

While many posters look at the 53 as being approximately 25 offense, 25 defense, 3 special teams sometimes its more useful to view it as 24 offense, 24 defense, 5 special teams. This acknowledges that there are probably 2 players every year who make the roster not because of their play at a specific position. Rather they make the team because of their special team contribution.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jun 26, 2010 7:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

ST math

I don’t try to designate a roster spot but I increase the player’s value for their ST contribution. And we have a lot of STs aces, which I always pay close attention to.

BTW — the 10th DB spot (assuming 25 on defense w/ 7 DL & 8 LB is between Barrett (gunner) and Thompson (KR). Cox has probably nailed down the 9th DB spot (IMO) based on his college production as a KR. Nate Jones is another one who makes much more sense as an acquisition once you see his profile. Besides his ability to play S, he had 19 ST stops last year. He hasn’t been used much as a KR much since college but he was pretty prolific then. LINK

Returned 82 kickoffs for 1,902 yards (23.2 avg.) with three touchdowns and blocked three kicks… Named the Big East Conference co-Special Teams Player of the Year as a junior in 2002 when he had a pair of 100-yard kickoff returns… Ranked sixth in the nation in 2002 with a 28.3-yard average on 26 kickoff returns (736 yds.) while blocking two kicks

Some of the Broncos owe their roster spot — in part — to their STs ability. Their ability isn’t limited to STs and I wouldn’t give a roster spot to anyone based on STs alone unless they’re a star KR or Steve Tasker. A few notable ST aces: Larsen, Bruton, Woodyard, Reid, Haggan, McBath, Barrett. The KR question hasn’t been discussed much lately but it’s still an open question, too. I don’t relish overusing Royal as a returner and would love to see his role greatly reduced. We did quite well in our offseason UFA acquisitions and draft as far as STs but it didn’t seem to get any attention.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jun 27, 2010 1:23 AM MDT up reply actions  

temps

Re: rush backer. I thought Koa Misi might have been our choice if he’d lasted longer. It would have made sense if we took Butler in the 3rd, too. There really weren’t that many OLB34s that would have met with our approval this year, and we needed to wait till the Dumervil and Moss situations were resolved anyways. I don’t see any alternate choices in the range in which we drafted that look like superior choices to the selections we made.

Re: LB numbers. I’ve yet to see any indication that our current group of ILBs contains anyone who would justify our adding one more ILB. It makes sense from an emergency depth point of view but it’s a question of talent, too. I can see the logic in keeping one more though (assuming the talent is there). We may need backup at ILB if there’s an injury. However, I still believe that whoever we use as the 4th ILB must be able to cover, or else we accomplished nothing by cutting Davis. If we can’t find that attribute then we need to go another route. And I haven’t given up on the idea of Larsen moving back on a semi-regular basis. The fact that he was stationed at FB in passing camp doesn’t mean he’s going to stay there exclusively. His time was far better spent at FB in a passing camp than moving back to ILB. That’s easy to understand.

The ILB numbers that we brought in are revealing. They look like T.C. fodder. I just don’t get the impression they’re trying to fill the position. You have to remember (or be aware) — the MSM was unaware for the most part that we moved Haggan over. The so-called experts had been predicting our need based on their lack of knowledge of our roster. I still like the idea of an added ILB who can double at OLB (like Butler) but it’s not a major need currently. I’d rather see them add and extra DL or DB in passing down situations. BTW — our DL depth makes adding a DL for certain situations attractive once again. Many fans may be reluctant to embrace this because we dropped the 4-3 but it’s the appropriate adjustment.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jun 27, 2010 12:09 AM MDT up reply actions  

my guess is 7 DL on the 53 man roster

which means we have 3 too many as it is. We would have to cut someone else to bring him in just to get into training camp, and that is with 4 other cuts needed to get the rest of our rookies signed.

Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?

by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 22, 2010 12:09 AM MDT reply actions  

I was thinking 8

but assuming we intend on carrying 7. Right now we have 10. Let’s say we cut both rookies. That’s 8. I think we are going to cut Marcus Thomas. We have been flipping him from DE to NT to DE again. I think he is the odd man out. That puts us at 7. Sign Ian and let him battle it out with the rest of the players. Best player gets on the team.

As far as the rookies, there are plenty of UFA at other positions that are going to get cut. I can think of 2 linebackers, a tight end, and a wide receiver who are all likely to get cut in the coming weeks to make room for the draft picks.

BroncoTillIDie = Nick Castillo
October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Last Name: Ever First Name: Greatest

by Nick Cast on Jun 22, 2010 12:18 AM MDT up reply actions  

Marcus Thomas has improved every year....and he is young.....he will stay.

You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!

by boydy2669 on Jun 22, 2010 6:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

I only say Marcus

because he seems to be flipped alot. I’ve said it before, First he was a DT. Then he was losing weight to be a DE, now he is a DT again. It just seems like nobody knows what to do with him.

BroncoTillIDie = Nick Castillo
October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Last Name: Ever First Name: Greatest

by Nick Cast on Jun 22, 2010 4:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think thats by design, so we are increasing depth at ALL positions along front 3.

You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!

by boydy2669 on Jun 23, 2010 6:28 AM MDT up reply actions  

Garland is intriguing as well

He may cut himself (take a spot at a pilot’s academy) but his 60-day leave takes him into July, and I’m betting people sit up and take notice when they watch him play…

Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?

by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 22, 2010 2:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm more intrigued by Bobby McCray

a DE that was released by New Orleans.

Now that that is over.....

by 3nS on Jun 22, 2010 12:10 AM MDT reply actions  

don't know enough about him.

BroncoTillIDie = Nick Castillo
October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Last Name: Ever First Name: Greatest

by Nick Cast on Jun 22, 2010 12:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

As a OLB?

He’s 6’6" but only weighs 260 lbs. I don’t think he really fits in the 3-4 system we have implemented.

by higgyhoops12 on Jun 22, 2010 12:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

Scott has had flashes

but has been in an out of rosters during his 6 year career. There are also some injuries over those years. I believe Williams, Baker and Fields will do just fine. So I say no we don’t need Scott.

"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."

by bchiper on Jun 22, 2010 9:27 AM MDT reply actions  

Re: Scott - He'd have to be an OLB for us

Our LB guys run in weight from DJ Williams, who McD has expressed concern with since he’s ‘only’ 245 lb, to Ayers at 272 and McD likes them bigger. 260 is about right, on that level; he could be a little bigger. I don’t know much about him, and have no idea if he’s someone who can make the move from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB. Some can, some can’t.

Your point, bchiper, about having enough guys is still well taken – we’ve got quite a batch this year at OLB and just LB going into training camp – 15 of them, if you count Larsen as a FB/OLB. The exception to the weight issue is Wes Woodyard, who is listed at 222 but who said recently that he’s gotten up to 228 and is shooting for 236 by the end of training camp (Tuten has him on a special diet and workout regime to increase muscle weight). Since he’s basically a nickel back, that’s not that bad, especially since he hits, wraps and tackles pretty well for such a light guy.

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jun 22, 2010 10:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure you are talking about McCray and not Scott

Ian Scott is o-line….

BroncoTillIDie = Nick Castillo
October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Last Name: Ever First Name: Greatest

by Nick Cast on Jun 22, 2010 11:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

Brain Malfunction

WOW

BroncoTillIDie = Nick Castillo
October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Last Name: Ever First Name: Greatest

by Nick Cast on Jun 23, 2010 12:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

wait

I know what I did. I put o-line and I meant to put d-line. I had the brain malfunction after when I couldn’t think of why I put o-line.

BroncoTillIDie = Nick Castillo
October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Last Name: Ever First Name: Greatest

by Nick Cast on Jun 23, 2010 12:53 AM MDT up reply actions  

Wait

You think Scott would play OLB??

BroncoTillIDie = Nick Castillo
October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Last Name: Ever First Name: Greatest

by Nick Cast on Jun 23, 2010 12:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

He'd have to

He’s 6’6 and 260 lbs. If he’s athletic enough, sure. I don’t know how he played Nose in SD.

by higgyhoops12 on Jun 23, 2010 9:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

Sounds more like your talking about McCray, Emmett

Scott runs around 315lbs.

"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."

by bchiper on Jun 23, 2010 8:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

Misses a change of subject from hh12

As a OLB?
He’s 6’6" but only weighs 260 lbs. I don’t think he really fits in the 3-4 system we have implemented.
We started talking about Scott and moved to McCray – I just didn’t keep up ;-)

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jun 23, 2010 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

No problem

although I found it quite fun to imagine a 300+ OLB rushing the QB. Nasty vision.

"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."

by bchiper on Jun 23, 2010 3:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

The MSM certainly would not know this about the Paper champs, but the Chargers D-line is not any good and hasn’t been for a few years now. If SD felt they could cut this guy based on their current group of 2-star talents, then we don’t need him.

I'm rooting for Team USA at the World Cup!

by McGeorge on Jun 23, 2010 5:17 AM MDT reply actions  

+1000

You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!

by boydy2669 on Jun 23, 2010 6:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

If I remember right

they started making plans and signing guys when JWill went to IR, and then they released him after the season amid statements about wanting to sign him back. Does anyone know what his San Diego contract was looking like heading into its final years?

Denver very well could have sniped him, though by the time AJ got done lowballing him, anyone probably could have sniped him, probably for less than we did.

Oh well the cost of being first I suppose.

Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?

by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 23, 2010 12:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

I believe

His salary was $5 mill plus a $1 mill roster bonus that was due the day after they cut him.

by asdqqq on Jun 24, 2010 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

not monumental

but not chump change either. Thanks.

Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?

by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 24, 2010 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

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