2010 Denver Broncos Positional Preview -- Defensive Line
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 24, 2010 11:30 AM MDT
in 2010 Denver Broncos Season Preview
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Print"Yeah, who's the man, now? You like that beef up front?"
Those were the words "Wink" Martindale had for his linebackers after the Broncos nabbed Bannan, Green and Williams during 2010 free agency, and it is what you have to love about Wink, outside of his aggressive attitude and the swagger he is instilling in his guys.
You see, Wink gets it.
Defense is in the Denver DNA. History will look back at the defensive decay of the late 2000's as one of the worst aberrations in Broncos history. 32nd ranked defense in the league? 31st? Say it ain't so. Dead Broncos rolled over in their graves. Living Broncos would have preferred death to that unholy apparition. Offensive glory was a sorry substitute for the principles of sound defense that had first dragged the Broncos out of mediocrity. A return to those principles was no longer a luxury. It was a necessity.
2009 did a great job of putting the brains and attitude back into the defense, but the timing wasn't right to overhaul the trenches, and so only a few key moves were executed, out of need. But in 2010 they really turned the heat up on the defensive line, delivering DL coach Wayne Nunnelly a big batch of help.
Yeah, Wink, you're the man.
We love that beef.
Justin Bannan
#99 / Defensive Linesman / Denver Broncos
6-3
310
Apr 08, 1979
Colorado
Contract: 2010: $755,000; 2011: $3.5 million; 2012: $4 million; 2013: $3.5 million; 2014: $3.5 million; 2015: Free Agent
Acquired: Free Agency 2010
9th year in the league, 113 games played, 27 starts, including 2 starts in 5 post season appearances.
Justin Bannan
#99 / Defensive Linesman / Denver Broncos
6-3
310
Apr 08, 1979
Colorado
Contract: 2010: $755,000; 2011: $3.5 million; 2012: $4 million; 2013: $3.5 million; 2014: $3.5 million; 2015: Free Agent
Acquired: Free Agency 2010
Bannan has spent most of his career trying to find his own way around big guys on the DL, specifically the ones who always seemed to be ahead of him on the roster. In Buffalo he backed up Sam Adams and leapt at the chance to go to the Baltimore defense, where he found himself backing up pro-bowler Haloti Ngata. But that puts him in an interesting position now that he has come back home to Denver, as he has a lot of experience, but relatively low miles, which could be a great combination.
Injuries marked his early, inconsistent years with Buffalo, including a wrist injury that bothered him for some time, and it wasn't until 2005, 3 years into his career, that he was healthy enough to play all season, and it marked his first season playing in all 16 games. Soon after joining the Ravens he was hurting again, and he would eventually go to IR with a toe injury. He returned in force, playing in 15 contests with one start in 2007, and replacing an injured Gregg Kelly in 2008 to log a career high 15 starts. Last year he returned to his rotational role with Ngata, subbing infrequently for injuries and logging 2 starts in 16 games.
His versatility allows him to line up at RDE, LDE, NG, NT, DT, and even OG (where Buffalo used him on occasion in goalline and short yardage situations), but by far his greatest impact comes on 1st and 2nd downs as a LDE, though he often split time evenly on the ends. He has good timing getting off the line, and was one of the quicker Ravens players to engage, but it is mostly due to his veteran savvy, as his burst is average. He adds push and anchor vs. the runs, and was part of the Ravens DL that held opponents to 2.8ypc in 2007, and he holds up well when he needs to get upfield against the pass. He can handle double teams well enough, which allowed him to anchor the line as a NG/NT, and his hand technique is effective even against good guards and tackles like our own Kuper and Harris. He excels at onfield recognition, being patient with developing plays and pursuit and always seems to be in position during the play, with great hustle to stay involved. He does seem to wear down even as a rotational player, but as recently as 2008 he started almost every game, so there is reason to be optimistic. He doesn't play in 3rd down nickel or 2-minute packages.
Ronald Fields
#91 / Defensive Linesman / Denver Broncos
6-2
314
Sep 13, 1981
Mississippi State
Contract: 2010: year 2 of a $5mil 2-year contract; 2011: Free Agent
Acquired: Free Agency 2009
6th year in the league, 65 games played with 25 starts
Fields is a talented and powerful big body who came on quickly as a young player, starting 9 games in his sophomore season only to go to IR with a broken arm. On his return an on again off again relationship with a 4-3 defense shuttled Fields mercilessly (and quietly) between a 0- and 5-technique, where he struggled to string together consistent play. Most everyone agreed that NT/NG suited him the best, however, and when he came to Denver he was lined up almost exclusively as a NT/NG, in the starting defensive line.
Over the past three years Fields has been durable and dependable, and it shouldn't be lost on anyone that 2010 will be a contract year for him. He has played in every game for the past 3 years, starting all 16 for Denver last year, and even with the increased depth, should see plenty of playing time this year to keep the trend going. His impact comes on 1st and 2nd down, and he shows the anchor and upfield push necessary for stout run defense.
However, his greatest trait may be his athletic power, true DL explosiveness and speed that make him a tough customer for offensive lines. When San Francisco coaches measured line speed off the snap, in hopes of rearranging the line to address some of their defensive woes, they found that Fields was consistently the quickest player off the ball. His 2 year contract is of interest in that a young player entering his prime is generally locked up long term. If he plays as well as he did in 2009 he will be a target in free agency, and perhaps difficult to retain. If Denver manages to keep him, it will be at a higher price tag than his 2.5 mil approximately that he will have made here. Add in his recent off season problem where he was accused of "waving a gun at a nightclub" (and summarily having the gun found in his car...) and demand may be low.
Jamal Williams
#76 / Defensive Linesman / Denver Broncos
6-3
348
Apr 28, 1976
Oklahoma State
Contract: 2010: $855,000; 2011: $4 million; 2012: $5 million; 2013: Free Agent
Acquired: Free Agency 2010
13th year in the league, 148 games played, 122 starts, including 7 starts in 7 postseason appearances
A classic big body, weighing in between 335-350 lbs in any given season, though he is expected to be in the lighter end of the spectrum in his first year with the Broncos, after sitting out the entire 2009 season with a triceps injury.
Probably the biggest concern for many is William's age, but his 2010 teammates are dismissing the idea with a shrug. Mario Haggan said, "With a guy like Jamal (Williams), people say he's old, but I don't look at that. I look at what he can do for me on the field. I don't look at age." And, at least for 2010, he may have a point. A full year of rest may have helped Williams more than most realize, and he was still playing at a probowl level in 2008, helping San Diego post a top ten ranking vs the run, and that was while battling a (different) triceps injury. Acclimating to and training in the Denver altitude, playing lighter, and coming off a year of rest (not to mention being dismissed by his former team) all spell "invigorating," even if it isn't a long term solution.
Another concern when talking about Williams has been his injury history, though it doesn't seem quite as bad when considered in the whole body of a 13 year career. Outside of a dislocated ankle that sent him to IR in 2002, the major flags were repeated knee injuries and problems, including going to IR in 2001, battling the knee in 2003 and 2004, and missing the end of the 2007 season.
One of the greatest defensive players San Diego has ever fielded, and an instant upgrade at NT for Denver, Williams will likely need to see limited snaps, which may mean that he will line up with the rotational DL crew, rather than the starting crew. That particular logistic will be interesting to see develop under Nunnelly and Wink, since under Nolan, typically the rotations stuck together as a unit, barring injuries.
Jarvis Green
#93 / Defensive Linesman / Denver Broncos
6-3
285
Jan 12, 1979
L-S-U
Contract: 2010: $800,000; 2011: $3 million; 2012: $2.5 million; 2013: $3.5 million; 2014: Free Agent
Acquired: Free Agency 2010
9th year in the league, 121 games played, 25 started, including 4 starts in 15 postseason appearances
A durable, elite specialist, with a profound ability to impact the game with limited opportunity perhaps describes Green the best. New England saw clearly just what kind of player Green was best suited to be, and utilized him perfectly in that role, playing him in almost every game, and starting him situationally anywhere from 3-5 times a season. The result is a defensive end who has played in more games over the last eight years than any other DE in the league.
His specialty, not coincidentally, happens to be third down pressure and sacks, an area where Denver saw limited impact, primarily from one player (DOOM). Targeting Jarvis Green was 'all about the thirds.' Throughout his career, especially in big games, and against tough competition, he has been able to bring it when it counts. He is primarily a RDE, but can move between the ends fluently, and as needed.
But just because the guy is money on 3rd down, doesn't mean we should discount his role as a starting DE on the Broncos. In 2006, filling in for an injured Richard Seymour, he would set a career high with 7.5 sacks. When Seymour struggled again in 2007 with injury, Green once again stepped up, recording 6.5 sacks and a career high 39 tackles. However, he struggled to maintain that momentum into 2008, fighting an ankle injury, (but still recording 2 sacks in limited action), and in 2009 suffered a knee injury in week four, struggling through it for four weeks before having surgery during the bye, missing 3 games and returning at the end of the season as a rotational walking wounded.
The Broncos may be able to get starting reps out of the speedy pass rushing end. Of course, even if they don't, his 3rd down reps are worth the price of admission.
Ryan McBean
#98 / Defensive Linesman / Denver Broncos
6-5
297
Apr 23, 1984
Oklahoma State
Contract: Unknown
Acquired: 2008 off waivers from Pittsburgh
3rd year in the league, 15 games played, 14 games started
McBean came into the league as an exceptionally raw talent, with only 2 years of college work to prepare him for the NFL. He got a year of solid tutelage in Pittsburgh on their practice squad, but no game action, and then spent a year on Denver's practice squad (thankfully he never got moved to the roster...). He became one of the few defensive players that survived the purge when McX began to rebuild the team and managed to start in 14 games in 2009.
His primary position was as a DT/DE alongside Fields in the starting rotation, and his effectiveness is probably best described as "developing". While he held his own well enough, and made an impact as a special teams contributor, he could often be taken out of passing plays. His run stopping ability was adequate, and getting better as the season progressed. His style of play is still instinctual, but he is smart and can absorb and execute complicated schemes and assignments. He should be able to learn a lot behind the likes of Green and Bannan.
He is a strong player, but part of his development needs to be increasing his lower body staying power. His interior work is laudable, and he sniffs out the ball carrier well, staying on the move and keeping his legs generally clean, though he goes right to the ground when cut. But his struggles to disengage in 2009 can only be addressed by sound technique, something he is still struggling with. His awareness was also an issue in 2009, and with experience, that too should get better.
All in all he is still quite raw, but determined, with good athletic potential who should make strides in a deep DE rotation, and can start in an emergency.
Le Kevin Smith
#97 / Defensive Linesman / Denver Broncos
6-3
308
Jul 21, 1982
Nebraska
Contract: 2010: $630,000; 2011: Free Agent
Acquired: Originally acquired via trade: Denver 2009 5th round pick to New England
5th year in the league, 44 games played, 2 games started, 2 post season appearances
Smith is a natural athlete, a powerful, big guy, with a great attitude towards the game and an impressive intellect. His ability to fit the McDaniel's scheme on defense is a perfect fit, and his versatility and ability to absorb and execute complicated schemes are his greatest traits.
He came to the Broncos in a trade after backing up Ty Warren in New England, but according to Bronco sources he struggled along quietly with a knee injury that moved him to IR eventually, something he has had a problem with dating all the way back to his college days at Nebraska. The Broncos had acquired him in the final year of his contract, and to retain him re-signed him again to a one year contract. He is currently recovering from offseason knee surgery, and the expectation is that he will be a candidate for the PUP, almost certainly in the preseason, if not later.
Though still young, his experience and knowledge working with the system are great assets to have in the DL rotation. However, training camp participation will be very important for him this year, to get over the hurdle of missed time. And that is just considering his own development. When the team is looked at as a whole, his contribution in camp is even more important, in terms of providing the well rounded competition needed to bolster the DL.
Marcus Thomas
#79 / Defensive Linesman / Denver Broncos
6-3
316
Sep 23, 1985
Florida
Contract: 2010: $550,000; 2011: Free Agent
Acquired: 2007 Draft, 4th Round
4th year player, 48 games played, 2 games started
Thomas is another contract year player, and he is starting off his 2010 campaign in enigmatic fashion. A former penetrating DT, early reports this offseason were that he was going to slim down a little and try to move out to DE in the 3-4, a place where a lot of his natural abilities would be capitalized on, most believed. Then, inexplicably he told reporter Josina Anderson on her show that he wanted to keep adding bulk to be able to better make an impact at NT/NG, where he had spent the previous season. To date, no one really knows which it is going to be. His agent was confirmed as saying he was working with a personal trainer to drop weight, but it should be noted he had gained a lot of 'bad' weight (he ballooned to 340) while rehabbing a shoulder injury sustained last November.
DE is certainly where most of his experience in the NFL and college would put him, and for good reason. His burst off the snap has always been elite, and his ability to push and bend the pocket would be an asset on the edge, freeing up Denver's pass rushers to make noise, and possibly letting him make a little noise of his own.
On the other hand, reviewing his performance from 2009 showed me something important: he was good NG. His speed off the line is as much, if not more, of an asset inside as it is outside, and that extra time can buy a defensive lineman a whole lot of initiative in his battles. His quick reaction time is by far his best asset (he has nabbed himself 2 INTs, making him 2nd all time in Broncos history...for a DL) so continuing his development cycle as a NG/NT is certainly not bereft of opportunity.
And with so many questions around him, it is easy to imagine him as a bubble player, an unknown. But we shouldn't lose sight of just how much he contributes on game day. Beside the versatility to play inside and out, he also is a key member of the special teams unit, having blocked his first extra point in 2009, and anchoring one half of the recently foreshortened 'wedge' on kickoff returns, a task that few big men have the athleticism and speed to do as well as he does.
Chris Baker
#75 / Defensive Linesman / Denver Broncos
6-2
329
Oct 08, 1987
Hampton
Contract: 2010: $395,000; 2011: $480,000; 2012: ERFA
Acquired: 2009 CFA
2nd year in league, 1 game played
The second biggest guy on the team, he has an opportunity to become one of the biggest defensive impact players, but patience is a must. With the acquisition of Williams ahead of him, he will at once get that goading prompt to perform, while possibly gaining even more time to develop without undue pressure. If it sounds like an odd mix, that shouldn't be surprising, as development at NT may be one of the least forgiving developmental positions on the roster.
On the roster, outside of Williams, Baker by far is the 'truest' somatotype of the modern NT, which allows a team to run the 3-4 without compromise, to its fullest abilities. But his development, while reportedly on track, has the stride of a snail, and like all NT projects, rushing it just isn't in the cards.
Not that he didn't try.
He managed to be the only member of the 2009 class of college free agents who made the Broncos active list, and by the regular season opener had grabbed the backup NT spot behind Fields, all while battling a 'bad boy' image unfairly foisted upon him by circumstance and his own misguided trust. However, when it actually came to gameday, a backup NT who couldn't play on STs was a low priority, and except for the Pittsburgh game -- where he saw action on point-after units -- Marcus Thomas was activated ahead of him. Still, Coach Nunnely made a point of including Baker specifically when talking about his charges, and Baker had caught McDaniel's eye, who noted only that, "Chris has shown the ability to knock people back."
In the near term, Baker needs to push himself, and in the process, Fields, and perhaps even Thomas. If he doesn't, the Broncos will address the issue with even more bodies, creating an asphyxiating environment for Baker. Now is his chance to walk away with the backup NT position, and with it, a great shot at starter when Williams moves on. He has the talent and the ability, as well as a handful of elite tools, most notably his incredible strength. The opportunity likely won't get any better than this.
Ben Garland
#90 / Defensive Linesman / Denver Broncos
6-5
275
Apr 06, 1981
Air Force
Contract: 2010: $320,000; 2011: $405,000; 2012: $490,000; 2013: Free Agent
Acquired: 2010 CFA
College Free Agent
Garland is eminently suited to the defense that Denver ran last year, having played NG in a 5-2 at Air Force, and the test will be if he can show enough versatility to enamor Denver of their future scheme plans, including being able to anchor the interior of a true 3-4. In the NG role at Air Force he was a beast, leading the team in sacks and tackles for a loss, and helping the defense stand out nationally.
His role with Denver isn't as clear, but there is no doubting his determination. After breaking his hand in 2009, he continued to play, and his performance never suffered. "Nothing was going to take me off of that field," he would later acknowledge. The Broncos know they would be lucky to land a teammate like that.
However, his greatest challenge might be the decision he now faces. He has been recently invited to take an open spot at the pilot training program at Laughlin Air Force Base in Texas. If he takes it, his NFL career, for all intents and purposes, will be over before it begins. Add in that the time spent in the program counts towards his commitment requirements (which he has to find some way of satisfying -- because it is doubtful he will try to obtain the commitment waiver) and it becomes even more attractive. But, he is still seriously considering the NFL, and finding other means of meeting his obligations.
If he does choose the Broncos, they will be getting a space eating attacker, with a nose for the ball and adequate technical polish. His size is rare, and while listed at 275, he is closer to 300, and has played recently at 292. (another crimp in his plans is that 245 is a strictly observed weight parameter for the program.) His 60-day leave should see him through most of July, and by then the Broncos will probably have something to say that should help him with his decision. He could end up being quite an asset if both parties can come to terms.
Jeff Stehle
#65 / Defensive Linesman / Denver Broncos
6-6
310
Apr 04, 1987
Wisconsin
Contract: Unknown
Acquired: 2010 CFA
College Free Agent
Stehle is huge and can get bigger, which is a scary thought.
What is also scary with him is how much more work he needs to do to be anything other than a practice squad consideration. His playing time at Wisconsin was spotty, and only in his Senior year did he see any starts, though he did start the entire season. Right now he is pretty much a hold the line type of player, though he sheds and can make the tackle at the line with his long arms. He isn't a terror in the backfield or anything like that, but if he breaks through, he has good awareness and can bring down the ball carrier, just don't expect him to be blasting through any lines.
His size put him on the cusp of a draftable grade, but the long and short of it is that he lacks both quantity and quality: his limited starting time on a poor Wisconsin DL that struggled to bottle up its opponents will have him on the outside looking in.
Developmentally, however, there is a lot to like. He is a smart player, and that translates to awareness on the field (he was good at getting his arms up into throwing lanes, and he could be an asset on STs for blocking kicks). It also translates to leaps and bounds in the classroom, and so one area where he could make an impact is in getting the playbook under his belt. But his enemy right now is the first roster cut-down in preseason. Making it past that cut is going to take all he's got.
Outlook
After adding Fields, Baker and L.Smith last season, we watched attrition devastate the DL, until only McBean and Thomas survived from the past. 2010 brought with it an opportunity to really flesh out that group, and in fine fashion Denver managed to not only increase the competition and depth, but will likely have created an entirely new starting lineup.
Jamal Williams is the starting NT, hands down, but his reps will likely be kept in the 15-20 range, slightly less than half the reps in any given game. This will leave an opening for Fields to make an impact rotating in with the first teamers on 1st and 2nd down, while anchoring the second team DL. Bannan should be the first unit LDE, and Jarvis Green will end up as the starting RDE, which would mean an entirely new starting unit. But something to watch for will be the managing of Green's reps to allow him to contribute on passing downs. He would be perfect for the nickel package with McBean or Thomas at NT, Reid at LDE and Green at RDE, so expect that lineup.
McBean is the first of the bubble players, but has an excellent chance to be the backup RDE. He will likely rotate in with the first unit to give Green more 3rd down opportunities, as well as competing to anchor the interior nickel package and playing RDE and LDE on the second unit. Behind him, Thomas will be trying to push Bannan at LDE, and he should be able to secure that spot, especially if his STs contributions continue. He could also anchor the nickel package and serve as a 3rd NT on the depth chart.
L.Smith may start the season on PUP, but if he is available at the start of the season, Thomas will likely be his main competition.
Stehle, Garland and Baker will all be fighting for the right to keep developing on the active roster, with Baker being the most likely to be kept. Garland could make an immediate impact on the roster if he manages to push the Thomas/Smith group, but Stehle should probably be projected no higher than the practice squad.
Depth Chart Projection
Ideally we won't have to carry more than 7 DL on the 53, but that #7 won't be an easy choice. Baker is unlikely to win the #2 NT position outright, which makes him a candidate for the #7. Thomas, McBean and Smith will all be competing for two DE positions, so the odd man out will also be in competition for the #7. Garland is a dark horse candidate for the #7, while Stehle is a longshot for the #7... Here is my best guess how it shakes out:
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Thanks Styg...great read! We have a lot of depth and hope all our guys dont hit the injury...and thats the only reason I gave a 'B' is injury history!
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
Great post Styg!
That is a very intriguing depth chart. What is exciting is that the backups are versatile, four or five of the seven can start at any position in a pinch. Thanks for “fleshing out” the beef! Sick pun dude!
"Kool-Aid Kool Aid, Tastes Great, We Want Kool Aid, Can't Wait"
by littletinybroncos on Jun 24, 2010 11:59 AM MDT reply actions
Nice work
I love bringing in Williams, he is such an anchor, both on and off the field. It’s hard to rate our line above a B though because as part of the 3-4 system, a good line will rarely see many sacks just because that’s not it’s real job, it’s meant to control the offensive lineman, so that the skilled linebackers can make plays. I’m a much bigger fan of the 4-3, but this seasons offensive line looks like it should be able to do a better job.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Is Garland's NFL career really over if he goes for the Pilot programme?
I take it the loss of several years playing & training camp time would put him too far behind the curve – is that your argument? That would make sense I guess. Seems a shame though.
Have other players come into the NFL later in life?
I don’t know much about the USAF training programme, but the USAF is a highly regarded elite military organisation. If its anything like the RAF here in Britain I imagine a lot of pilots don’t make the grade during training. Through no fault of their own of course. Just the difficulty of becoming the best of the best. As an aside my best friend went for fast jet fighter pilot in the RAF after he left university, but eventually had to divert to helicopter pilot after he found he could not cope with navigation at high speed. The point is, rather like the NFL, a lot of hopefuls in the airforce don’t always make it.
So could Ben go for pilot, give that 100% commitment, see how that pans out and if he fails come back to the Broncos?
Although I like the FA signings we have made on the DL, age is an issue, so ideally I want to see the youngsters coming through. We didn’t draft there this year so it would be great if one of these undrafted players could come good.
Anyway great write up – thank you.
by British Bronco on Jun 24, 2010 12:44 PM MDT reply actions
I made two assumptions with my statement
The first was that if he tried the pilot program he would succeed. The second was that success meant multiple years to meet his commitment—up to ten years likely. that is almost a career in and of itself.
But the NFL can be a powerful dream. Chad Hennings (Cowboys DL) had a similar choice, and chose the Air Force. The military ended up reducing the force and granting him time served, so he returned to the Cowboys at 27 years old, after about 5 years in the military, and ended up playing for 9 years, and got 3 superbowl rings.
One thing to note about Garland is that he 29 right now, which makes him the same age as fields, and older than everyone on the DL but Williams, Bannan and Green (and he is only 2 years younger than Green).
I think his mind will be int he right place in camp, due to his maturity, and I think, based on his comments, that he really wants to play in the NFL. I think it will come down to what the Broncos have to say about him after a month of training camp.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
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by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 24, 2010 1:16 PM MDT up reply actions
NFL Players and the US Military
I recall that we had a linebacker some years back who had an Air Force commitment. Trying to remember his name – Steve Russ maybe? Anyway, he came in for training camp and made the team, served as a backup LB and on ST, but still had his active service commitment to fulfill, the AF kept giving him deferments IIRC. He was good enough to make the team but not as a starter. I think he was here for a couple years. I don’t recall what happened to him after his career with the Broncos.
But speaking to the age issue of NFL players who have served in the military, I think RB Mike Anderson is a great example of a player who brought in the toughness and smarts he learned in the Marine Corps. I think he was like, what, 27 or so when he was drafted? And proceeded to gain over 1400 yards and rookie of the year honors. He had some injuries as I recall after a few years; such is life in this brutal contact sport. But he was a great example of a player who brought toughness, leadership and maturity he learned serving in the military.
Jeff Zepp, Kittredge CO USA
good job remembering Mike Anderson's military time
He is a terrific example of the potential these young men have.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 26, 2010 2:41 AM MDT up reply actions
Great article and thanks for the opinions on the players. I gave it a B because
aside from Williams there really aren’t any true starters on this line. There is a lot of potential and very solid depth though so if everyone is able to do their job we should have success along the line this year.
Based on potential I graded the DL a solid B
And I would totally agree with your assesment on who will be on the 53 roster. I can also see Smith going on the PUP with Baker being the 7th lineman. This should be a very agressive unit regardless of who is in the game IMO.
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
I could have sworn pilots were not allowed to be that tall.
My dad flew C130’s for the AF after graduating from the academy, he always struggled making weight due to his build [short and stocky]. I remember him going to workout in a sauna many times.
He will have to lose weight no doubt about it.
I’m guessing if he makes that choice, he will need to drop around 30-40 lbs just to get through the doors of the academy, let alone in the plane.
The height requirement rule of the thumb maxes out around 6’5", but the strict measurement is your height sitting down, which maxes out at 40" (3’4"). Additionally they can grant a waiver based on the vehicle you intend to pilot.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 24, 2010 1:24 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree. I thought pilots couldn't be above 6'0" and 190 lbs ish.
I remember my grandfather telling me I was too tall to become a pilot (I’m 6’3"). He was the VP of engineering at Northrop in the 60’s when they developed the FA-18 hornet.
I didn’t know that cockpits were big enough to fit a man that big.
IDK
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Cargo pilots can be bigger
It’s the fighter pilots that need to generally be of smaller stature, as there is very little room in the cockpit. But in the large cargo planes, you have a bit more room, and taller / bigger guys are more likely to fly those.
I envy your grandfather – those were the golden years.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
Thank for clarifying bro.
Yeah he was a wealth of knowledge when it came to aeronautical engineering. I miss him all the time.
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What is your distinction between NG and NT?
typically they are the same position – lined up over the center (nose of the ball). In a 3-4 it’s referred to as NT While a 5-2 it’s referred to as NG to distinguish from the two DTs.
That was my distinction
NG means they had reps in the middle of the 5-2, NT reps in the 3-4. I went back and scanned the article to see if there was something in there misleading on that note—there is a typo under McBean, should be DT.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 24, 2010 5:02 PM MDT up reply actions
which is now fixed
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 24, 2010 5:10 PM MDT up reply actions
That was the source of my confusion
I was trying to figure out how a NG and NT would be in on the same play. And you clarified that.
Like some others here – I think McBean may actually start ahead of Green. The big question is whether the Broncos use platoon substitutions (rotating groups of linemen who play together) or situational substitutions. I haven’t got a clue yet.
I do expect to see a lot more big nickel this year: 4-2-5 and 3-3-5. It fits out personnel and it fits the pass happy league.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Jun 24, 2010 7:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Platoon vs substitutional
I’m hoping this will be answered in training camp. I lean towards platoon (no preference, it just seems more likely to me at this point), but I think there is more advantage for this particular roster to situational. Figure that Williams will have his reps (even in practice) closely monitored, and I think Green’s reps need to be very thoughtfully allocated as well, and already we have a formula for situational.
I would say we were at least 90% platoon last year, though I haven’t charted it fully, just smatterings here and there. Can’t wait to see just who this Wink character is. :)
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by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 24, 2010 7:55 PM MDT up reply actions
For that reason, we were very vulnerable to the hurry-up....
I hope that’s addressed this year :)
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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
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Steve Nichols on substitution patterns
It was worth reposting.
http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/5/21/1474622/mhr-university-defensive-line
My thought was that our versatility gives us the chance to mix it up and make it hard for the offense to take anticipate our patterns and take advantage of them.
The best approach is to use a combination of rotations and straight substitutions.
My gut feeling is that we’ll be unpredictable, and I expect we’ll use position switches as an alternative pattern along with a number of different looks.
no goats, no glory.
This would be excellent
thanks for digging that up!
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Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
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by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 24, 2010 10:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Superb article Jeremy
I think the improved d-line is going to help us in a big way this year. We are turning our weakest spot in 2009 into a solid spot in 2010.
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I don’t understand why everyone automatically assumes that Jarvis Green is immediately the starter. I thought McBean did a tremendous job last season and I would not be surprised in the least to see him starting and Green backing him up.
by isaac303h on Jun 24, 2010 3:23 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed, isaac - Especially since both he and his agent have talked publicly
about how using him in a rotation, on third downs and in certain specific situations, rather than as a starter, was his best use. While the player needs to fulfill whatever the coaches need him to do, Green has always tended to prefer coming in later rather than starting. McBean at RDE should be a good combination, with Green used as best serves the team.
Gnothi Seauton
Contracts...
McBean is in the last year of his contract and Green is in his 1st year of a 4 year contract. Hopefully McBean gets his extension this season pending TC.
oc60
"Adversity Is Your Asset" John Wooden
I agree
that Jarvis is better suited to situational 3rd downs. But i am projecting starter right now based on the OTA work they were doing, with Moss getting most of the reps alongside Williams and Bannan.
I won’t rule anything out, and I like McBean. I don’t want to put too much weight on OTAs, but I do think that which players are working together, was relevant.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
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by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 24, 2010 5:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Jeremy..you meant Green not Moss. Right?
I too am a believer that it will be Bannan, Williams, McBean. With Thomas, Fields, Green.
Baker and Smith will fill out the 8 DL members.
yep.
just sort of seems to follow naturally from “Jarvis” for me.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
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by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 24, 2010 7:56 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree isaac
It’s also been mentioned by McD that the D-linemen are learning to play all of the positions, to make them all a valuable asset in any situation. In games, they will be put in rotation and be kept fresh as much as possible. (Hence the assumption that J-Will could be no more than a 2-down lineman.)
McBean has some improving to do as he is still a rotational player at best – but he is improving. Meanwhile, Green prefers to come off the bench to make an impact on passing downs primarily, but that doesn’t mean he would never start a game.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
Thanks
I hope Garland stays, you are right – space eating attacker – is a great way to put it, the Air Force and CU are my favorite College teams to follow, though I am far less ‘invested’ in either than the Broncos, and typically have less time to enjoy either as opposed to the Broncos.
But thanks – great view of Our beef!
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by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jun 24, 2010 3:34 PM MDT reply actions
@PJBGF..as Jeremy stated above, it takes time to develop D linemen.
We have real good youth in Baker, McBean, and Smith.
I give it a 'B'
As in “Better than last year”.
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That could work.
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by Tempestuous Binary on Jun 26, 2010 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions
Excellent post, Jeremy.
It looks as though we now have a DL that will be strong irregardless of who is playing in the rotation. Your depth charts looks good – I am guessing that Green wil be coming off the bench, however.
Thanks,
There's a ton to like about our D-line
But there doesn’t seem to be a lot to love. That’s the only thing that’s holding me back from giving it an A. I’m still hoping that next year’s draft we can start targeting a true stud for our D-line who can be here long term.
Some of that
is the nature of a 3-4/5-2 defense. The D-line becomes the Rodney Dangerfield of the defense.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Jun 24, 2010 7:16 PM MDT up reply actions
I get that tendency from a stat perspective
but I’m still thinking from a demanding a double team perspective. Except for Jamal who’s getting older. Most of them seem to be more of a could double team if the play calls for it but don’t necessarily do it kind of players. If that makes sense.
by Fan in Exile on Jun 24, 2010 7:33 PM MDT up reply actions
In 2008
Bannan started the last 15 games for the Ravens at NT after Ngata got hurt, and he did well in that role, which necessarily demanded double teams. But yea, he is no Williams.
Part of it could be that our starting line are all new, so it is hard to be as bought in as we will be in a year or so with most of them.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 24, 2010 7:51 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah Bannan’s exactly the type of guy I’m talking about. I really like him, don’t get me wrong but I’m still crushed that we didn’t get Ngata. When we moved up in that draft for Cutler I has convinced myself that we were getting Ngata, I was so crushed when it didn’t happen.
by Fan in Exile on Jun 24, 2010 7:56 PM MDT up reply actions
I have a special door in my heart
It is closed most of the time, and behind it are all the draft picks I wish we would have taken through the years.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 24, 2010 7:59 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah, I try to keep that door closed
most of the time, but in the off season it’s pretty hard.
by Fan in Exile on Jun 25, 2010 10:16 AM MDT up reply actions
Just a minor correction
The Ravens actually list Kelly Gregg as their starting NT, and it was Gregg that Bannan replaced in the starting lineup in 2008. Ngata didn’t miss a game that year.
fixed
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 25, 2010 4:25 PM MDT up reply actions
Everett Pedescleaux??
What happened to Pedescleaux? Last I saw he was put on IR in November. Was he ever waived?? Is he still injured?? Did he fall off of the face of the earth??
All the great men in the world are dying, I even feel a little ill myself.
He was released
to date no one has picked him up.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 24, 2010 7:49 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks for the info
I never saw anything in the transactions about him. I thought they had some hopes for him. Nice article on the remaining d-linemen
All the great men in the world are dying, I even feel a little ill myself.
Good post
I would like to point out that Bannon started 9 games last year for Baltimore at DE after Pryce was demoted.
I saw on a article at denverbroncos.com that Thomas was playing DE with Fields the NT during OTAs. So that should clear up some of the Thomas NT/DE confusion.
Now that that is over.....
I'm pretty sure
that Dwan Edwards started for Pryce. I’m only seeing Bannon as starting 2 games.
Great article Jeremy
Most of these guys have not put together a run of seasons of starting so that is why i considered marking them as a C but what swayed me to mark it as a B is that the starting unit is likely to be an experienced and solid unit and that most of the guys in the squas can play multiple positions.
"The Holy Writ of Gloucester Rugby Club demands: first, that the forwards shall win the ball; second, that the forwards shall keep the ball; and third, the backs shall buy the beer." - Doug Ibbotson
Great analysis!
IMO, we got good, proven vets up front with young guys with potential behind them that could use the mentoring of the vets and also the limited PT they’ll receive.
To me, that is a great formula and we are seeing that happen at nearly every position on this team!
I have very high hopes for this group!
I rated it a solid B, with the depth being the biggest concern. If the competition that was brought in this year doesn’t make these guys push harder, then nothing will.
I like where we are on DL.
Thanks for another great post! Can’t wait until the next one!
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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
GREAT ARTICLE STYG!!!!!
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by kwool79 on Jun 25, 2010 9:04 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
In 2009 we came out of the cage roaring like a lion!
And entered into the 2nd half of the season bleating like a lamb…I hope that scenario doesn’t repeat it’s self. The immediate attention to the DLine in free agency has me believing that they set down, studied and evaluated Nolan’s defense and saw the flaws in it and addressed the situation as well as could be so they could focus on the OLine and offense in the draft. I loved the strategy of it and hope it works. We definintely look better on paper than we did last year…Thanks Jeremy for the great post and look forward to reading more..
Smoke and mirrors
Currently the defensive line is the unit I have the most questions about, of the 7 players who most likely will make the 53 man roster only 1 has significant starter experience at his position and that player is well into his 30s and coming off a serious injury.
I like the signings of Bannan, Green and Williams, they do definitely add some quality. The difficulty with signing people who have been backing up star players is that some times you get Matt Schaub and somes times you get Kooties.
A cup half-empty approach would be something like:
Justin Bannan – career backup run stopper with no true position
Jarvis Green – career backup pass rushing DE with 3rd down potential
Jamal Williams – Over the hill injury risk (a second coming of Sam Adams or Simeon Rice)
Marcus Thomas – misfit in the 3-4 with no true position
Ryan Mcbean – needs to continue developing
Chris Baker – long term developmental prospect
On the other hand, Jamal Williams is a two time all-pro every down player, Bannan is a very solid 2 down run stopper who could very nicely rotate with Green to form a perfect 2-headed monster, Marcus Thomas and Mcbean are both finding their true homes in the 3-4 and with a year under their belts will blosssom to new heights and Baker is unquestionably talented.
I find it difficult to determine where between those two extremes the truth lies, the realist, some would say pragmatist, in me would like to say it is closer to the cup half empty point of view, however the defense did improve noticibly last year and there is no reason to believe another improvement is impossible.
At the end of the day DL is the position I would most like to see addressed in the coming draft, because as it stands we look to have mostly rotational players and it would be nice to have one or two studs who could anchor on all downs.
I see what you are trying to say and it may hold water or not...
Definitely the defense is better than last year on paper and that is all at this point. What they will have to do is translate the paperwork onto the field and make it work. I have a feeling it will work with Wink’s new aggressive defense, but we’ll see. I know one thing, I’m getting anxious for the season to start…
by bfree2bronc on Jun 27, 2010 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions
the half empty cup perspective is interesting
I am usually overly optimistic so it was interesting to see the potential downside of our DL.
I agree, Larsen shouldn’t get any bigger. I am getting tired of his bone crushing hits knocking the pixels off my TV, once they fall to the floor they are very hard to find.
Interesting that you have Thomas backing up LDE
That’s where I like him, too. My grade for the line is B–, even though that seems optimistic when you look at individual players. After all, two of our three FA acquisitions are career back-ups, albeit behind good players, and the guys behind them are either development projects or players who’ve been back-ups on undistinguished defenses. Hard to grade above C on that, but I did anyway because, while we have no dominant players (since Williams’ reps will be carefully rationed) neither will we see a big drop-off when “reserves” come in. But more than that I think this line’s ability will be greater than the sum of its parts. We saw that in the first six games before the line wore down, lost confidence and became tentative. While Mike Nolan got a lot of credit for that, I think McDaniels (and Nunnely?) got far too little. The irony considering how bent out of shape fans got when Bowlen hired an offensive guru when defense was the problem, is that defense might actually be McDaniels’ strong suit. Not that he won’t eventually field a high-powered offense, but he seems to have a feel and almost a preference for the defensive side of the ball. What a refreshing change after Shanahan basically ran the defense into the ground. Love your player critiques. Keeps the off-season from being even longer.
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