Reaching Out

by spock on Jun 27, 2010 11:27 AM MDT

I just read a Woody Paige article, Elway back in Broncos' grace, which I notice Gr3yStreet has submitted as a FanShot. It's a feel-good read. John is golfing with Josh, John recently attended a mini-camp workout, John wants to be involved with the Broncos. It always puzzled me that John, the greatest Bronco ever, was so disinterested in getting involved with the team. It puzzled me that Rod Smith, one of the classiest acts ever, who bleeds for the Broncos and is loyalty personified, was "too busy" to be involved. Now we see Smith tutoring Demaryius Thomas after previously trying to work with Marshall. Is McDaniels really as hard to get along with as reputed? Does he really drive away talented players? Or does he simply lack patience for guys whose brilliant me-first stats somehow don't translate into team wins? The quality free agents he's managed to attract suggest that good players do want to play for McDaniels, and it's equally clear that he's managed to make Bronco greats Elway and Smith feel wanted and valued.

Why were they so estranged? I can't speak for Smith but Paige's article suggests it was Shanahan who kept Elway at arm's length.

Elway said: "I told Mike I understood the relationship between head coach and player. My father (Jack) was a coach. I told him I wouldn't cross the line, but he made sure I didn't. . . . However, even after Shanahan and Elway won two Super Bowls (after losing three together) and John retired, the abyss widened, because Bowlen had shouted "this one's for John" after the first title, Shanahan didn't want Elway in an executive role, and if the coach won without Elway, that one would be for Shanahan."

I'm not trying to pick on Shanahan — two super bowls speaks for itself — but the reluctance of former players to get involved with the Shanahan-led Broncos was not a mirage. Neither is it a mirage that two of the most beloved Broncos greats, Elway and Smith, are now happily giving time to the franchise that they never, in their hearts, abandoned. McDaniels, dismissed by some as an egotist, apparently has no problem sharing the stage with past Broncos greats. He has clearly reached out and struck a chord:

McDaniels said: "I've really enjoyed being around John. He means so much to the Broncos, Denver and the NFL. We've had fun, and I look forward to John having a relationship with the Broncos, Pat Bowlen and me well into the future."

Elway said: "I've gotten to know Josh, and I'd like to get to know him even better and assist him and the Broncos whatever way I can. Josh knows what he wants and how to get there."

Where before Elway was so alienated that he passed on an opportunity to become part owner of the Broncos . . .

At the end of Elway's career, Bowlen offered to sell him up to 20 percent of the ownership, and Elway eventually would become COO. Elway declined; he didn't want then to be a minority shareholder.

. . . he's now not at all averse to the idea:

Elway would be willing if Bowlen made the offer again. They were owners (with Stan Kroenke) of the defunct Colorado Crush arena football team. "I did that because I wanted to be in football again," Elway said. "I got the experience on the ownership and personnel side, and I was ready for the NFL . . . Would I like to be part owner of the Broncos? Yes."

Whether or not that works out the Broncos and Elway are actively pursuing a closer, more cooperative relationship:

The Broncos and Elway have agreed that the Hall of Fame quarterback will be an asset with the team's business operations in "marketing initiatives," particularly in advance of the team's game in London, and will observe practices and consult with McDaniels on football matters. . . .

"It's easier to be involved now. I don't need a job title. I don't want to call shots. It's not necessarily day-to-day, but if I can help Josh, Pat and Joe get this franchise back on track, that's important. It's just a matter of being the guy there who if you wanted a different point of view, I can give it."

Would he want to coach? "Oh, yeah. Being off to the side and working it that way . . . spending time with the quarterbacks and the offense."

McDaniels, without his ego being threatened, has made Elway and Smith and no doubt other Broncos greats feel welcome at Dove Valley. This can only benefit, can only inspire the young players who will be representing the Broncos on the field in years to come. McDaniels knows this, and evidently is more interested in winning than in being raised up on a pedestal which, come to think of it, is exactly the kinds of players he wants playing for him. Does reading an article like this make me feel not only warm inside but hopeful for the future? Hell yes!

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

Tweet Comment 61 comments | 22 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Almost my exact sentiments

I don’t know what kind of ‘falling out’ Elway and Shanahan had, but there obviously was one.

I can’t wait to see how this all turns out…. Without a ‘job title’ that leaves it wide open as far as how much and in how many ways Elway (and Rod Smith for that matter) can contribute. Hopefully one day I’ll be able to know how it feels to be part owner. If not me, at least Elway. ( ;

That's quite a long handle there, G Funk. - That's what she said.

First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! ( =

by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jun 27, 2010 11:57 AM MDT reply actions

I agree

This article makes me feel good I always wondered why Elway didn’t play bigger role. I think this is smart by Josh and is great for us. John has already had contact with Tebow and both seem to have started a good relationship, and Smith with Thomas as well. Bright future for this team!

"stand for something ... live with passion ... finish strong," --number 15

by GJBroncofan19 on Jun 27, 2010 1:17 PM MDT reply actions

Rod Smith and Sharpe have been working with Royal and Marshall the last few years. I think you are not noticing some things that are plainly there for you to see.

I'm rooting for Team USA at the World Cup!

by McGeorge on Jun 27, 2010 2:31 PM MDT reply actions

Clearly

Woody and Elway must have been not seeing too.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jun 27, 2010 3:16 PM MDT up reply actions

Yes, but......

They were there a week or two and then gone until Shanny needed them again. John was always kept at arms length by Shanny.

Make those miracles happen - Jon Keyworth

by IgorBStrange on Jun 27, 2010 6:29 PM MDT up reply actions

Awww McGeorge

you say such nice things!

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Jun 27, 2010 8:01 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs

Elway

I like him, great player, Hall of Famer, one of the best, the face of the franchise as a whole, you think Broncos, you think Elway, but I really don’t care if he is involved with McD or not, it really doesn’t make much difference outside of how the public views McD and the Broncos organization right now. By getting closer to McD, Elway is helping give some credibility to McD with the old-school Denver fans, something that is needed, but really, it doesn’t do much to improve our team, unless he actually joins the team as a coach, but with two very proud guys, with very different game styles, I don’t Elway would actually work under McD. There is also the fact that a lot of great quarterbacks, or players in general, don’t pay a lot of attention to their old teams. But this is a great feel good article.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jun 27, 2010 2:42 PM MDT reply actions

I think you are mistaken on that

One intangible element of great teams is their sense of identity. Do they see themselves as a tricky, finesse, team or a tough hard-nosed, not to be denied team. Connecting with the players of the past helps the current players connect with, and identify with, the legacy of the past. Elway’s presence helps the current players to feel like the are not just 53 guys who happen to be wearing Bronco uniforms; it helps them to feel like they are heirs of a Bronco legacy. And that can translate directly to wins on Sunday.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jun 27, 2010 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions 4 recs

Thanks

SlowWhiteGuy. That’s exactly what I was thinking when I wrote, “This can only benefit, can only inspire the young players who will be representing the Broncos on the field in years to come,” only you said it with more elegance and clarity
than I did.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Jun 27, 2010 4:27 PM MDT up reply actions

Identity is important

But I question how far it can translate. That sense of legacy is a kind of partiotism for members of sports teams, but in this day with free agency, there are very few players who spend their careers with one team. Players like Joe Montana, Warren Moon, Emmitt Smith, and other great players who played in both the pre-FA and post FA eras have said FA is the single worst things for a teams unity and identity, because every off-season you have 10+ new guys on the team, and you can lose that many or more from the previous season. Montana said that after 1993, when big names like Deion Sanders were moving around the league, that on that day, no team would ever have that same sense of identity unless they stayed away from FA. I think that applies even more, and while most players like FA, as do many teams, it totally tears apart that legacy teams build. Players can be picked up by divisional rivals, teams can lose their iconic player, who could then go play against them somewhere else. Imagine the identity crisis in San Fran in when Joe Montana played against his old team. While he was traded rather then going through FA, players move around the NFL a lot more then they used to.

No, most players on our team have either played for another team, or don’t have any connection to the Broncos, so that legacy of Elway doesn’t mean a whole lot to veterans like Dawkins, Williams, or other experienced players who spent a lot of seasons with other teams. Jamal Williams is a great example, as Broncos fans, we rip the Chargers a lot, it’s our job and all, but as soon as we pick up Williams from our hated rival, he is named the key stone of our defensive line, so how’s that for maintaining team loyalty. Deion Sanders once said that he had no loyalty to any team, but to the sport and himself, and I feel now that is generally the way most players feel. When Josh McDaniels leaves Denver, I not saying anytime soon, but almost no coaches have stuck with the same team for their whole careers, but when he does leave, he will bond with past players from his new teams, he is still good friends with a lot of retired Patriots.

As for young players, with a roster turnover of an average roster turnover in the NFL at .794, and even worse here in Denver at .729, most NFL rookies now should expect to play on more then one team in their career. No one on our offense has been here longer then 5 seasons, and on defense, only D.J. Williams has stay with us after being draft and after 6 seasons. If our longest serving Bronco has only been here 6 season, that’s not a great sign for Bronco spirit. With most players averaging at least two teams a career, it’s hard to imagine that more then one or two players from this last draft will be here after 5 seasons. So while it is great to see a past legend, from a person whose job it is to study how people respond to certain influences, there is little lasting effect one person once they have reach a status where they know the legend better. Elway will motivate for a short time, but once the players start seeing him all the time, his aura will fade, him being at practice won’t mean as much. The 49ers players were all very excited when the great Singletary was named their head coach, but after a short time, the players just say him, not his legacy, the same will happen with Elway, everyone will be really excited the first few times they meet him, but after seeing him all the time, his presence won’t mean anything any more. He’s still Elway, but it’s like watching the best movie 10 times, after the 5th or 6th time, it’s just not the same. Now this might be hard to accept, but just take my professional word for it, which might not be enough, but believe me, this is one of the very few topics I actually do know something about.

Now I want to say it’s great that Elway is getting involved, don’t misrepresent what I am say, I think it’s a neat deal for the players, but I think if Joe Montana or Dan Marino showed up, it would have the same effect.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jun 27, 2010 5:47 PM MDT up reply actions

You make many interesting points, MD

I guess I would respond simply that the churn produced by FA is exactly what makes Elway valuable to us right now. It represents a form of continuity… not a sustained one perhaps, since he’s been away… but he brings a perspective to the game that is actually uniquely Bronco. Sure Marino or Montana could contribute something similar, but they’re not. And they weren’t Broncos. There is something unique to the brand of football Elway represents, just as there was to the brands Dan and Joe played. And as for the aura, I would expect that he would actually be more valuable once the aura does fade, once the young players develop a relationship with him. One thing that will not change is the experience he represents, and I don’t think that kind of wisdom can best be shared from a pedestal. If that wisdom leads to success, they’ll seek it out and they’ll grow as players.

I agree with much of what you said, and absolutely feel that this news must be digested with a little ballast for our heads. This is not some magical or mystical recipe for Lombardis. He is what he is — a very experienced player who has earned respect and is willing to share his wisdom. If the Broncos are the beneficiaries of that wisdom, so much the better.

I like Josh. But I need Ws.

by broncosmontana on Jun 27, 2010 6:32 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs

"uniquely Bronco"

Please read this as “uniquely Elway”.

I like Josh. But I need Ws.

by broncosmontana on Jun 27, 2010 6:38 PM MDT up reply actions

Thanks for your thoughts

But one things that just doesn’t seem to be going to work is the situation of retired players who want back into the game, but don’t want the commitment of actually being an assistant coach or coordinator. Elway was a great quarterback, and him giving tips to the young guys is fine, but there will be a point where he will either have to be hired or just back off, because no matter how you look at it, Elway isn’t the type of quarterback that would fit McD’s system, not a bad thing, but like you said each quarterback has a different “brand” and Elways is pretty conflicting with how McD runs his ship, Elway was a pretty self-centered guy till towards the end of his career, he was a big risk taker, and he was incredible stubborn, all things McD is against. Now if he just gives pointers, that’s fine, but if he gets hired at a quarterback coach for example, he may struggle to keep his style and experience away from how McD wants to run this team. If a power struggle happens, what would the fans do if they saw McD and Elway yelling it out on the field. So I have no problem with Elway giving pointers, and throwing the ball around a bit, but he seems to be doing this with who he wants, not really caring about who needs it. If Elway throws too much support to Tebow rather then Orton, who he seems to be ignoring, that undermines team unity, causes drama, which is something McD seems to be against. So with Elway, I’d rather he showed his face every once in a while, but I’d prefer he stay off the field during games, cause no matter how good he was, he doesn’t run the game the same way McD would.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jun 27, 2010 6:44 PM MDT up reply actions

valid concerns certainly

And all reasons I was surprised that McD would look to give him some official, even if untitled, role. And the same reasons I would have expected, whatever their personal issues, Shanahan to ask for a little distance. All perfectly reasonable concerns.

I’ll say this about McD, though — we have learned he has gigantic steel ones. This is another example. Here’s hoping they have an understanding and are comfortable and confident enough in it to stick with it.

I like Josh. But I need Ws.

by broncosmontana on Jun 27, 2010 7:01 PM MDT up reply actions

Totally Agree

That is the main reason I don’t think they could work together, great friends, but not great co-workers. They are both very hard-headed and stubborn, which might lead to unity issues on the coaching staff and team, which we don’t need. So while I like Elway hanging around talking to the players, I trust McD to run this team better then Elway.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jun 27, 2010 7:08 PM MDT up reply actions

Note the last part of my response to Bear below

I don’t necessarily expect Elway to put in a lot of time coaching or to be that good at it….Being a superstar doesn’t necessarily translate into being a good coach. But it’s obvious that McD is willing to give him a role and that Elway is eager to embrace it.

What McDaniels shows in reaching out to John this way is confidence. He’s in charge and he’s not afraid of losing control or being diminished by the presence of the Broncos’ most famous player. And Elway, in turn, is going to be careful not to overstep his bounds. He wants to be involved. He’s not expecting to run the show and almost certainly won’t be a position coach. Any suggestion of him doing serious coaching is a polite fiction. A phrase from a Bob Seger song — “I used her and she used me, but we were both getting our share” — seems apropos.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Jun 27, 2010 7:53 PM MDT up reply actions

Great point spock

I agree, and thanks for clearing up your opinion on the subject.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jun 27, 2010 8:24 PM MDT up reply actions

Elway did make positive comments regarding Orton recently and in the past

I don’t know if he did today, but I don’t expect it every press conference. Elway is on record as saying that Orton can lead the team to a championship. I’m very glad that he’s also decided to be publicly behind McDaniels. I have no idea how old you are, but for those of us who are much past 50, we recall the lost SBs, the way that Elway, ego and all (as far as that goes, ego is often essential), pushed, pulled and drove his team right through the Green Bay Packers when they were 14 pint underdogs.

I don’t honestly know if he can give a taste of that spirit, what it takes to reach that pinnacle, to the members of the organization. If so, it will be extremely helpful. But as far as coaching, I’d like to make a note on that.

Elway isn’t going to be a coach. Coaches, position coaches, make relatively small money, are at the office at 5:30 in the morning and work 100 hours a week as a matter of course. John is absolutely unlikely to want to do that or to enter into such an agreement. He’s done too much, he’s worth too much, and that’s asking more than he’s likely – or needed – to give.

But starting to see players like Rod Smith, John Elway and hopefully others coming in and sharing what they’ve learned can have two big advantages – first, teaching things that took a career to really learn, and second, showing the younger players that there is a tradition to uphold when you call yourself a Denver Bronco. That is the thing that i think the team most lost for a while there, and it’s part of what SWG was talking about in the past couple of days with regard to identity. Once of the reasons that the Pats had such a good run was that you knew who you were when you were on NE. It’s also true in Pitt – they have those trophies in part because they have a team identity that has lasted for a long time. It can be done.

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jun 27, 2010 7:12 PM MDT up reply actions 3 recs

Thanks for the thoughts Doc

Sadly, or maybe not, but I’m only in my mid-20’s so I’m not quite old enough to remember the Super Bowls, and I agree that Elways pride and will power did drive that team, but he also struggled with correction and listening to coaches and teammates. This changed in the early to mid-1990’s, and he was a better player for it.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jun 27, 2010 8:27 PM MDT up reply actions

That's true - to a point ;-)

John always had to do things at least a little his way. It was just the way it/he was, although I’d cheerfully agree that he got better about it. He also learned to throw a touch pass, which saved a lot of nasty broken fingers and sprains of hand, digit and wrist.

And, when they finally got him a good line and a solid running game with a decent defense, he was wonderful to watch. That last year was absolutely amazing. I’d gotten to watch the Chicago defense’s 1985 work, which was astounding. I don’t know which team would win that one if the two played, but it would be a heck of a game. Different eras, different rules, different experiences.

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jun 27, 2010 9:02 PM MDT up reply actions

Haha of course a good team sure helps

But in 1993, when Elway changed his style of play, he still didn’t have TD, Sharpe still hadn’t reached his prime and the defense was still struggling. So when the players arrived in a few years, Elway had completed his change and was ready to actually lead a team, rather then carry it. So while the true results showed a few years later, but his changes personally saw him become more accurate, made smarter throws, and had a higher yards per attempt. So when he finally got the team he needed, he was ready. So once he became a team player, prior to getting the team of the late 1990’s, it helped him reach a new level of play, and the years from 1993 to 1995, years where the Broncos still lacked talent, Elway was able to play at a higher level, motivate his receivers and help his team, rather then just try and do it himself. So while the team eventually came in 1996 and 1997, Elway became a team player a few seasons before that.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jun 27, 2010 9:13 PM MDT up reply actions

Max, we agree to disagree...

Elway has always been a team player and one of his great traits was his communications skills & lead by example – a leader. He was always first in and last out type player. I’ll leave it at that this topic would take way too long. Peace…

oc60

"Adversity Is Your Asset" John Wooden

by oc60 on Jun 29, 2010 12:21 PM MDT up reply actions

Of course we can agree to disagree

And I was never, ever challenging his work ethic, not sure where that came from. But to wrap it up I guess I just want to make the point that even T.O. has that same work ethic, now I know that’s hard to accept, but while not many people like him, Garcia, McNabb and Romo have all mentioned how hard he works and his commitment to the game. Um peace I guess…

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jun 29, 2010 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions

+1

It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)

by Alex on Jun 28, 2010 4:12 PM MDT up reply actions

Elway is exactly the type of QB who would fit McD's power FB...

Max glad you approve lol.
‘Elway self-centered’ LOLROF thats funny.
‘Big Risk taker towards the end of his career’ lol
‘he was Incredible stubborn’ lol

Max you don’t know ‘jack’ about Elway nothing personal…

oc60

"Adversity Is Your Asset" John Wooden

by oc60 on Jun 28, 2010 8:54 AM MDT up reply actions

Ah thanks

But actually for the first 5-7 years of Elways career he was pretty self-centered guy, he was a big risk taker, in similar ways to Brett Favre, he won a lot of games with those risks, but near end of his career he chaged his play style, like Doc and I already discussed, but you actually mis-quote me there, so don’t do that. As for the stubborn part, that’s still true today, Elway was huge fan of doing things his way, and while he’s gotten better about it, he’s still pretty hard-headed. While this is just a short version, I actually did a lot of research on Elway, and he was quite the proud, stubborn, and hard-headed and it won him a lot of games, so it’s not a knock on him, like you might think, he just wouldn’t fit the system that McD is running. So calm down, don’t misquote and we’ll be fine.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jun 28, 2010 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions

Having Elway and Rod Smith around is a monumental deal!!

You could easily argue that Brandon Marshall would not be even close to the player he has become without Rod Smith. He would tell you himself. The little nuances of the game make a huge different on every play of a football game. Many games are won by less than 1touchdown. The small flinch of a shoulder for a pump fake or simply looking off the safety can make the difference between a touchdown and a interception. A 1st down and 4th down, a win and a loss. Having Elway and rod smith around Tebow and Thomas will make the difference between being stars or being busts! GO BRONCOS

My job is to separate the player from the ball - John Lynch

by 2010oc on Jun 29, 2010 3:48 PM MDT up reply actions

Nice Words but I think you're wrong;

It makes a huge difference to rookies and veterans that their coach believes in mentorship no matter who it is. Past leadership who’s philosphy of ‘do it my way or out the back door’ really doesn’t work anymore only have to look at the results from Shanahan’s leadership, in all the years MS coach in Denver he only had one coaching assistant promoted to HC [Gary Kubiak] the player who was John’s back up for 15+ years don’t get me wrong Mike was a great OC but truly proved he wasn’t a very good HC especially after he lost all the leadership of the coaches & players. Yes, leadership is one of the keys to success in sports guys like John Elway, Rod Smith, Champ Bailey, Brian Dawkins, Al Wilson to name a few, you can’t win without it you have to have support from the players & coaches said another way BALANCE.

Having Elway step forward after 11 years will help bring players closer and creates an atmosphere of unity & identity for the Franchise so it makes a difference. Kudos to McDaniels for having the insight to greatness and he will deliver what all Bronco Fans want another SB win.

I for one think how lucky we are to have someone like Elway fianlly come out to help because I know he bleeds Orange & Blue. The players excitement will be reflected on the field during the upcoming TC. I can see the senergy returning to Mile High. The fans, players, and organization coming back together [senergy] as ONE.

The mentorship of coach McDaniels and his staff along with Elway, Smith, and who knows maybe Sharpe from time to time, maybe Terrell Davis. The notch just when up 10 points for the coming TC. To know their coach is endorsed by one of the games greats, having Elway on the field can only help instill more support & confidence from the players who will make McD’s power football system work, it can only help create a better atmosphere in Dove Valley. BTW; I think players do pay attention to their former team(s) their fans just like the regular guys on the street.

Spock; Thanks for the post…

oc60

"Adversity Is Your Asset" John Wooden

by oc60 on Jun 28, 2010 8:33 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

What was between Elway and Shanny

is the same divide I think that separates Shanny from everyone: power and control. Shanny had it, and didn’t want to give it up. Sad, blasphemous? Sure. But probably true.

Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?

by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 27, 2010 3:05 PM MDT reply actions 3 recs

You know...You can't have a team first attitude if your preaching me first...

The last 10 years have been misable with thet guy and his ego…It’s get’s old after a while with the “Shanny was so great” when it was the players who actually played the game! He sure as hell didn’t…

by bfree2bronc on Jun 27, 2010 8:19 PM MDT up reply actions

Little Napoleon Syndrome

I laugh when I hear any McD hater refer to him as Little Napoleon. That name instead makes me think of Shanny, and my interest in seeing what he’ll do with the Redskins is very high, because of it.

"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche

by Horsepower on Jun 27, 2010 10:12 PM MDT up reply actions

I dont know what may or may not have transpired

Rod and Shannon both offered to help Marshall a bit but had to do it away from the facility.

It’s nice to see that our new FO has either asked or accepted the help of our greats! What a great thing it woudl be in mind to have some of our former greats (Elway Sharpe Smith McCafferey and Davis) involved to a big extent with this team (add atwater and others)

Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!

"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown

by Jon Tollerud on Jun 27, 2010 3:29 PM MDT reply actions

5th Recd

I was, as you’ll note in my post, unaware of the particulars of the estrangement between Elway and Shanahan. It shows a side of Mike that is unfortunate – the inability to share power and to trust the people around him. There is something of a Law of Reversed Effort there – the less you can trust those around you in an organization of that size, the worse your chances of achievement. It also seemed to lead to a slew of coordinators who were not the best he could find, and perhaps did not threaten him (that’s only my own take on it). Any way you slice it, it’s good to have Elway coming back into the organization and that attitude of a winner that still seems to surround him will be a welcome addition to Dove Valley. Welcome back, John!

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jun 27, 2010 4:07 PM MDT reply actions

That is why I am interested to see how Shananhan does in Washington.

It is good to see that McDaniels is reaching out to the former greats and get any insight they can give to help the Broncos get back to where we belong.

Floyd Little: HOF Class of 2010.

2010 NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2010 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant

by weazel on Jun 27, 2010 4:20 PM MDT up reply actions

Shanahan has proved his genius

on the offensive side of the ball and can afford to be his own offensive coordinator, but he can’t afford to be his own defensive coordinator. At first his defensive coordinators were pretty good and were able to field decent defenses, good enough to win with a high-powered offense. But as the Broncos descended into mediocrity and his control-freak tendencies got out of hand he arrogated more and more defensive control to himself. His last coordinator, what’s-his-name, was simply carrying out orders rather than running the defense. You can be brilliant at one facet of the game but you’ve got to be at least adequate at the other two, and Shanahan was a disaster when it came to defense and special teams. I’m not sure if McDaniels is as good offensively as Shanahan — I’m beginning to appreciate the brilliant job he did with Cutler following the brilliant job he did with Plummer — but I think McDaniels is way better defensively and better overall. And he’s far more willing to allow others to play in his sandbox. I don’t necessarily expect Elway to put in a lot of time coaching or to be that good at it (albeit
I could be mistaken). Being a superstar doesn’t necessarily translate into being a good coach. But it’s obvious that McD is willing to give him a role and that Elway is eager to embrace it.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Jun 27, 2010 5:15 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

I can't argue with any point that you make

I’ll always appreciate what Shanahan brought to Denver. He took on too much later – it’s a difficult, common mistake and in part, Pat Bowlen made that error as well by permitting it – but Shanahan’s early work was brilliant, especially offensively. Two SB victories says a lot, despite his later errors.

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jun 27, 2010 5:20 PM MDT up reply actions

Very true

I got carried away analyzing his deficiencies, but without Shanahan Elway wouldn’t have had those two SB wins as a capstone for his career. He’d be like some of the other greats who were never quite in a position to win the big one, who insist, not very convincingly, that it doesn’t bother them.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Jun 27, 2010 7:38 PM MDT up reply actions

Mistake wasn't the half of it!

Giving Shanny that much power was a grave mistake that cost US and the Broncos several years of performance. All in the good name of a castle that was built in Shanny land…

by bfree2bronc on Jun 27, 2010 7:44 PM MDT up reply actions

Awesome Article...

Great breakdown; thanks for sharing!

MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!

by ejruiz on Jun 27, 2010 4:51 PM MDT reply actions

Thanks, Spock

You really made my Sunday. I read this before I read the article in question, as my RSS reader didn’t kick in today for some reason. But I share your sentiments — what harm can come from our greatest QB and greatest WR spending time with our young players? It’s not even necessarily about “this is how we won our Superbowls” — it’s about mindset, team, and tricks of the trade. That kind of wisdom is hard earned through difficult times. Sharing it is not necessarily a shortcut to success, but it lends perspective and ballast to the mind and heart. As much as I loved Shanahan, it was hard to escape the feeling that the best ambassador of Broncos football — the experience and mentality required to succeed at that level — was not being instilled in the players to the degree required to succeed. Shanny seemed to expect perfection sometimes without providing the tools to grow into it. Remember, late in his career, Rod vocalizing his concern that too many players in the locker room were not concerned about winning football games? IMO, Mike should have seen that coming and addressed it before his team captains had to. The culture of our SB winning teams was enforced by Shanahan, but it sprung natively from the hearts of Elway and his teammates, consummate pros who refused to count themselves out of any game, who expected perfection of themselves on every play, and carried their teammates’ aspirations with them every time they entered the huddle, and did their job every time they broke it. I am very excited to see our team valuing that perspective again. The coach is ultimately responsible for all aspects of the team, but the team defines its own culture. We have young men now who seem to value the rare access and insight they are getting, and that gives me confidence that they will carry on the tradition proudly, and win.

I like Josh. But I need Ws.

by broncosmontana on Jun 27, 2010 5:17 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs

urg

replace “ambassador” with “phenomenon” please. So much for editing myself on the fly. ; )

I like Josh. But I need Ws.

by broncosmontana on Jun 27, 2010 5:21 PM MDT up reply actions

I agree

A lot of the players on those SB teams were guys who “Refused” to lose. Guys like Elway, Smith, Davis, Romo, Jumpy, Williams, Atwater. I remember seeing those guys out on the fiels doing their version of Dawkins today. That is what, I believe McDaniels wants on this team.
Another thing is to bring out the “Pride” factor. Pride in being or having been a Bronco. Shanny did it in the beginning as did Reeves a little, but this team needs leadership like the “old days”. The tough guys, the identity. Kind of like (OMG I have to say it…) The Raiders who always have some of their old guys around. It gives them an identity to live for and a pride that many wish their teams had. Just not the losing they have gone through.

Make those miracles happen - Jon Keyworth

by IgorBStrange on Jun 27, 2010 6:38 PM MDT up reply actions

That's the thing though

Our “leader” by the definition of being on the team longest is D.J. Williams, and I would call him a leader. Our leaders come from other teams, don’t have that Bronco Pride, but they do have pride as players. Dawkins probably doesn’t care if he’s a Bronco, Eagle or Lion, as long as he gets to play, and he will put his heart into it. The player who has too much loyalty to a team, what happens if they get traded, will they pull a Moss in Oakland and just whine till they get traded to a good team, or will they man up, get over it and play for their new team. Players now a days don’t need that team loyalty as much as they need the pride to always play at their best level.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jun 27, 2010 6:48 PM MDT up reply actions

Not that it matters much

But hasn’t Champ been around at least as long as DJ Williams?

by BroncoRick69 on Jun 27, 2010 8:38 PM MDT up reply actions

You are correct

I suppose I was more focusing on those players who were “lifers” or had spent most of their careers here. Champ spent 5 seasons with Washington before a big trade sent him here.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jun 27, 2010 8:46 PM MDT up reply actions

True but

McD had to start with what he inherited – a leaderless team. He could wait 4 or 5 years for new leaders to emerge, or he could import leaders while he developed new ones.

It has gone without notice in some circles – but most of the players McD/X have drafted were leaders of their college teams.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jun 27, 2010 10:39 PM MDT up reply actions

I agree with you there

I am a big supporter of FA, and McD has proven to be a master of it. A leader is a leader no matter where he has played, and that is what makes him great. Dawkins had no problem taking his intensity and putting out on the field here in Denver, he could do it anywhere, that is what sets him apart as a leader. McD has done an amazing job in FA, if I were to grade him so far, he’d be around a C or C+, but his FA grade would be an A, no question. I guess my point was that FA kind of destroys the team unity or legacy since rarely do players stick a team for an extended period of time, thus making it hard to find, teach, and keep true leaders. So I totally agree with you, McD inherited a leaderless team, especially on defense, with really on Champ as an experienced vet, and he’s not quite as vocal as some of the new leaders who have come to the team.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jun 27, 2010 11:17 PM MDT up reply actions

I've gone pieces on it

One is here. It’s been a consistent effort for as long as McX was finding them, and continued in this draft, even with some players with questions. he’s pointed out before that he’ll take a chance on a player if he and the other coaches decide that the player is a good guy who made a mistake(s) and takes responsibility for it. The number of leaders he’s brought in, though, has been impressive.

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jun 28, 2010 1:57 AM MDT up reply actions

Great comment, montana

Easily rec’d

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jun 27, 2010 5:21 PM MDT reply actions

I’m just happy you could decipher it ; ) but thanks!

I like Josh. But I need Ws.

by broncosmontana on Jun 27, 2010 5:22 PM MDT up reply actions

If this is an example of what John can give us

“When Tim came to my (birthday party), we had a long talk. What I told him is that in pro football, the window of accuracy is this small (he spreads his hands 18 inches), not this big (3 feet). Those complete passes in college are incompletions and interceptions in the NFL. You don’t get better at accuracy in the weight room. You throw thousands of passes. He’s got the natural talent and the smarts. But he’s got to throw, throw, throw.”

then I’m gonna LOVE this arrangement.

I like Josh. But I need Ws.

by broncosmontana on Jun 27, 2010 5:31 PM MDT reply actions

Fun article....Elway possibly on the Sidelines? Awesome!

Even if John is only on the sidelines at practices, any new player coming to Denver via draft or FA knows that the best Bronco player of all time was John Elway. These guys could immediately be in the presence of true Bronco’s tradition and also have the opportunity to not only meet the HOF player, but to work with John. Good move Josh. I’m raising my own hops & barley trophy right now and “this one’s for Spock”.

by StuntmanX on Jun 27, 2010 5:37 PM MDT reply actions

Two Sides To The Story

Woody Paige is very friendly with John Elway and the story he writes is John Elway’s version of events.

Some time ago I was told PART of the Shanahan side of the story in confidence and I can assure you that there is a another side to this story. A side I will never repeat and Mike will never publicly tell (at least all of it).

That’s pretty thin gruel so all I can offer as evidence is this…those who know the Shanahan’s will tell you that they are very kind and caring individuals. Woody wrote a very interesting article and lets leave it at that.

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..."

by Alan_Smithee on Jun 27, 2010 5:49 PM MDT reply actions

I think that comes through in the article

Paige writes

There was a breakdown between Elway and Mike Shana- han.

“Honestly, some things went on between Mike and me,” said Elway, who wouldn’t elaborate.

The rest is speculation on Paige’s part since Elway “wouldn’t elaborate.”

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jun 27, 2010 6:37 PM MDT up reply actions

yeah

mike is a good guy a intence guy he riemindes of bill walsh type

okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider

by j-man on Jun 27, 2010 6:00 PM MDT reply actions

Thanks Spock

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks

by KaptainKirk on Jun 27, 2010 8:12 PM MDT reply actions

I like this.....

but I have to say I am apprehensive. Everyone loves the idea of John Elway back in the picture in some way. I’m afraid that the legend will eclipse the man if he’s in a real leadership role again. It’s not that he’s not great. It’s that any return to football would likely be met with impossible expectations by Broncos fans. I am content that the last football image of John Elway was as Super Bowl MVP hoisting a Lombardi over his head. I’m not opposed to the idea of his return, but I think we should guard against ridiculous standards if he does come back in some capacity.

-Harvey J. Neptune

"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

by HarvJNep2n on Jun 27, 2010 11:15 PM MDT reply actions