2010 Denver Broncos Positional Previews - Tight Ends
The Denver Broncos parted ways with Tight End Tony Scheffler during the off-season. During Training Camp in 2009, Josh McDaniels assured Tony he would be a part of the offense. When his involvement in the offense lessened, Scheffler developed an attitude problem. It was enough to get him benched for the last game of the season, and subsequently traded to the Detroit Lions. Tony didn't fit the versatility requirements for the offense that Josh McDaniels installed as the Broncos new Head Coach before the 2009 season. McDaniels requires the Tight End position to be primarily run blockers first and pass catchers second. This isn't to say that he wants blockers with stone hands. In the "Amoeba" approach, every player that handles the ball is required to be a "complete" player. If they are one dimensional, the defense can key on the play. For example, Scheffler was known as a pass catching Tight End. When he was in the game, the defense could key on him and know there was a pass play coming when it wasn't otherwise obvious, i.e., 3rd and long.
The Receiving productivity of Broncos tight ends has declined a bit since the retirement of future Hall of Famer Shannon Sharpe. The catch and yardage averages have gone down slightly, but the Touchdown production of the tight ends has dwindled by half.
The demands of the tight end are different in Josh McDaniels’ offense than they were in Mike Shanahan’s. Due to the nature of the amoeba, playing-to-the-strengths of the players, the production results can vary. In 2006, the Patriots’ tight ends (which included current Bronco Daniel Graham) accounted for 1,037 yards on 81 receptions; two years later, the tight ends’ yardage production dropped by 70.9 percent, to 302 yards on 31 catches.
The strengths of the Broncos’ tight ends now rest in their blocking abilities; Graham has one 30-catch season since 2005 while Quinn was a devastating blocker in college at North Carolina but didn’t have a catch last year. So this year the receiving achievements at the tight end position could be closer to McDaniels’ 2008 offense than his 2006 one. Or it could be somewhere in between like last year (59 for 705 yards).
The Bronco tight ends are in good shape in the meticulous hands of Coach Bob Ligashesky.
Says Marquez Branson:
"He wants you to do everything right. That's how it's supposed to be. He's always coaching you up on the little things -- footwork, steps, make sure you get your leverage, width on routes, coming back to the ball, being quarterback friendly -- stuff like."
#89 Daniel Graham (6-3, 257)
| Season | Team | Gm | Rec | Yards | Yds/G | Avg. | Long | YAC | 1stD | TD | Fum | Fum L |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2002-03 | New England | 12 | 15 | 150 | 12.5 | 10 | 31 | 7.8 | 7 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
| 2003-04 | New England | 14 | 38 | 409 | 29.2 | 10.8 | 38 | 4.5 | 21 | 4 | 0 | 0 |
| 2004-05 | New England | 14 | 30 | 364 | 26 | 12.1 | 48 | 4.7 | 20 | 7 | 0 | 0 |
| 2005-06 | New England | 11 | 16 | 235 | 21.4 | 14.7 | 45 | 11.4 | 9 | 3 | 1 | 0 |
| 2006-07 | New England | 12 | 21 | 235 | 19.6 | 11.2 | 29 | 4.9 | 12 | 2 | 1 | 1 |
| 2007-08 | Denver | 15 | 24 | 246 | 16.4 | 10.3 | 28 | 4.4 | 12 | 2 | 0 | 0 |
| 2008-09 | Denver | 16 | 32 | 389 | 21.3 | 12.2 | 28 | 6.3 | 20 | 4 | 0 | 0 |
| 2009-10 | Denver | 16 | 28 | 289 | 18.1 | 10.3 | 24 | 6.9 | 14 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
| Career | 110 | 204 | 2317 | 21.1 | 11.4 | 48 | 5.9 | 115 | 24 | 2 | 1 |
Daniel Graham joined the Broncos as an unrestricted free agent on March 9, 2007. He grew up in Denver, attending Thomas Jefferson High School and completed his education at the University of Colorado. A nine-year veteran tight end, Daniel enters his 4th year with the Broncos after spending his first five seasons in New England, where he earned 2 Super Bowl rings (2003 and 2004). He has established himself as one of the NFL’s best blocking tight ends. Those two assets have earned him the respect of his teammates. Graham was named the Patriots offensive team captain for the 2006 season and has also served as an offensive co-captain for all three seasons he's been a Bronco.
Graham is a Pro Bowl caliber player who has 11 games of playoff experience (6 starts), including three AFC Championship Games and two Super Bowls.
He has started 45-of-47 games he's played in a Broncos uniform, totaling 84 catches for 924 yards (11.0 avg.) with seven touchdowns while blocking for an offense that ranked fourth in the NFL (1st in AFC) in yards per rush (4.5) during that period.
Daniel played in all 16 games (14 starts) for the Broncos and tied for third on the club with two receiving scores, became one of just three tight ends (Tony Gonzalez/Todd Heap) to post at least one touchdown reception in each of the last eight seasons.
Averaging 23 Reception, 277 yds. and 3 TD's a year and would love to get the ball more often. With Tony Scheffler's departure, perhaps Graham will get more looks in the red-zone. And even though he turns 32 in November, there is no doubt that he is the incumbent and current starting tight end for the Denver Broncos.
Daniel Graham at Minicamp talking about this season compared to last season:
"It's a lot better out there. The young guys are coming along, you know. Some guys feel more comfortable in the whole system and what coach is trying to do with this camp.
It's a lot more comfortable feeling. Guys understand more than we did last year. We are comfortable on both offense and defense. You know, we are just having a lot of fun out here right now."
#81 Richard Quinn (6-4, 255)
Richard Quinn developed into one of the best blockers in the nation at the tight end position during his three seasons playing for the University of North Carolina. The Broncos started looking toward the future when they selected him in the 2nd round (64th overall) of the 2009 NFL Draft. Expected to be utilized in the 2 tight end set and groomed as Daniel Graham's eventual successor, Richard appeared in 15 games his first year. He made his regular-season NFL debut in Week 1 at Cincinnati and his lone missed game was when he was listed Inactive vs. Pittsburgh in Week 9. Quinn deflected a pass to break up a fake punt attempt at Kansas City in Week 13. Contributed two tackles and a 19-yard kickoff return while playing special teams.
Richard is a naturally large man with a powerful upper and lower body (225 Bench: 24 Times). He is an outstanding blocker who is stout at the point of attack and gets a good push in the run game. Quinn has the tools to be a solid possession receiver (Vertical Jump: 32.5"). He lacks great timed speed (40 Time: 4.88), so he won't get much separation in his routes. He's not a vertical threat who will stretch the field and is raw as a pass route runner.
Injury history: he missed his entire 2006 College Football season after fracturing his right shoulder blade in August 2006.
In his 2nd year, the Broncos will expect Quinn to show improvement as a receiver and be an impact player in the running game. He should see more playing time in short yardage situations and when the Broncos enter their opponents’ red-zone.
#86 Marquez Branson (6-3, 248)
Marquez Branson was an undrafted College Free Agent the Broncos signed in 2009 after playing College ball at Central Arkansas. He was one of the last cuts in the pre-season after making an impression in Training Camp. The Broncos re-signed him and he was placed on the practice squad last year .
Emmett Smith did a Tales from the SunnySide article on Marquez back in January.
He isn't the best of blockers, although he's been steadily improving in that area (is any of this starting to sound familiar?). However - while this player, who was the Senior Bowl quarterback Nathan Brown's favorite target at Central Arkansas in 2008, he has the frame to add an estimated 10 to 15 pounds of muscle without sacrificing speed. That's good, because his Combine average was only about 4.7 (He did a run a few timed 4.55's between preparations, Combine and Pro Day). Branson has an arm span of 34.25 inches and a hand span of 10 inches, which gives him an edge in a lot of situations. He lead the All-Southland Conference First Team with an impressive 16.4 yards per catch at Central Arkansas, after doing two years at East Mississippi Community College and he managed 18 TDs in his last two years. Oh, and he managed a 35 inch vertical leap at Combine, third in that year at TE.
Spending the season on the practice squad, Marquez soaked up all he could while serving on the scout team. Learning techniques and doing his part to help the defense prepare for each week's opponent, he did a fair job imitating the likes of Antonio Gates and Jason Witten.
Considered a "Receiving" tight end, Branson is 3 inches smaller than Tony Scheffler, the man he's replacing. That doesn't bother Marquez one bit.
"I'm pretty sure I can handle it. If I couldn't, I don't think I would be here getting the opportunity. I'm going to keep working my hardest and see what happens."
Marquez has added 7 lbs. of muscle with the ministrations of Strength and Conditioning coach Rich Tuten. This season, he will likely play an H-back role similar to what Clark and Chris Cooley play. He has also been practicing at fullback along with Spencer Larsen. Either way Branson has been addressing any deficiencies in his blocking ability and becoming versatile enough to earn a spot on the 53-man roster this year.
"I improved my blocking a whole lot. That was a lot of dedication just getting in the weight room. Passing and catching the ball is what I've done my whole life, so that comes kind of naturally to me. I'm just trying to work and improve the best I can."
Head Coach Josh McDaniels has high hopes for Branson in 2010:
"You didn't see him last year, but we have very high expectations for him," McDaniels said. "He's a guy that has matured and is doing great in our off-season program right now. He did a great job last year and we were fortunate to get him after the draft last year. There were some teams that were even interested in getting him off our practice squad as the season went on, and we were fortunate to keep him. We're excited about his progress.
Marquez Branson should make the real squad this season.
The Broncos didn't select any Tight Ends in the 2010 Draft, but they fortified the competition with two Undrafted College Free Agents, Nathan Overbay and Riar Greer.
Nathan Overbay joined the Broncos as a college free agent on April 26, 2010 fresh out of Eastern Washington University. He played 43 career games for the Eagles, totaling 93 receptions for 1,189 yards (12.8 avg.) and 19 touchdowns. Nathan set an EWU record for tight ends as a senior in 2009 with 51 receptions for 588 yards (11.5 avg.) with 13 touchdowns, averaging a touchdown every 3.9 catches. He is the nephew of Toronto Blue Jays player Lyle Overbay. Nathan Majored in interdisciplinary studies at Eastern Washington. He was born on Jan. 4, 1987.
Overbay is a big passing target and at 270 lbs., he definitely has the bulk to be a force as a blocker. However, his combine metrics show why he went undrafted. His 40 Time of 4.72 - 4.85 while not stellar, isn't too shabby for as big as he is (Former Bronco Tony Scheffler was in the 4.5 - 4.55 range). He had a Vertical jump of 30.5" and Bench Pressed 225 lbs. 19 Times. According to nfldraftscout, Overbay will catch nearly everything thrown his way but he is very slow coming out of the 3-point stance. Perhaps a year working with Coach Tuten on strength and agility would be helpful for Nathan.
Asked about his favorite aspect of football, Overbay replied:
"I just love the hitting and being part of a huge family with the players and coaches. I just love the game."
Overbay, was not Invited To The Combine, but here is a scouting report on him:
The Sporting News War Room
Overbay is a tall, long-armed target who possesses good size and carries his weight well. He showcases decent bend in his stance but struggles when asked to fire off the ball. He isn't sudden when asked to slip the bump, and it takes him a while to get into his routes. He's at his best when he's asked to stand up off the line. He isn't a gifted vertical athlete and lacks the speed to consistently get down the seam. But he possesses strider speed that allows him to pick up speed the farther downfield he goes when he tracks the ball. Nathan has good body control and coordination when asked to go up and get the ball. He's a natural plucker who catches the ball well in traffic and does a nice job maintaining concentration through the play. He isn't sudden as a route runner. He's more of a glider and doesn't exhibit much acceleration out of his breaks. But he has a feel for the pass game, finds soft spots in zone coverage and gives quarterbacks a big target to throw to. He isn't a physical run blocker and struggles to drive defenders off the ball. But he possesses a long set of arms and has the initial athleticism to get into defenders off the snap and seal them from the ball. He does a nice job of initially controlling blocks on contact but lacks the overall power to consistently lock out through the play. Overall, Overbay is a nice-looking tight end prospect who has the ability to catch the ball in traffic and earn a No. 2 or 3 roster spot for an NFL team.
Wes Bunting scouting the East/West Shrine game
Speaking of productive first days for tight ends, Eastern Washington’s Nathan Overbay had a solid initial practice. Overbay is a big kid who displayed a good feel for coverage, hauling in three tough grabs in practice and being the most productive target in the West passing game. He isn’t an explosive downfield athlete, but he’s a smooth/coordinated route runner who adjusts well to the football and knows how to extend and pluck away from his frame.
Nathan Overbay seems destined to the Practice Squad for a year of seasoning if he can get the coaches to notice him in Training Camp.
Riar Geer is a rookie tight end from the University of Colorado who joined the Broncos as a college free agent on April 26, 2010. In 46 career games (37 starts) for the Buffaloes, he totaled 87 receptions for 974 (11.2 avg.) yards and 11 touchdowns, ranking fourth, fifth and second, respectively, all-time among tight ends in Colorado history. Earned first-team All-Big 12 Conference honors from the Associated Press and The Sporting News as a senior in 2009 when he recorded 36 receptions for 402 (11.2 avg.) yards and four touchdowns. He is a local boy who played ball at Fruita-Monument High School in Fruita, Colo.
Playing in the Colorado offense, he is also accustomed to being used as a blocker.
Perusing the scouting reports on Riar, I found the usual double talk.
He was a Combine invite but didn't get drafted. Geer weighed in at 256 lbs. and coming off a knee injury, ran the 40 yd Dash in 5.00 seconds. His low time was 4.87. His 20 yd time was 2.86 and he ran a 4.28 in the 20 yard shuttle. He had a vertical Jump 33" and he did the 225 lb. Bench 13 times. His other measurables: 33" arm length, 10 1/8" hand, and a Broad jump of 8'10".
His slow 40 Time is understandable and Geer will likely have a better number with a healthy knee. The 13 Bench reps is startling though for a tight end, and Riar will need major improvement in that area if he is going to play in the Pros.
There are some injury concerns though. In 2009, he sat out of all contact drills during the spring while completing rehabilitation from winter shoulder surgery. However, that didn't prevent him from having his best year in college.
In 2008, his junior year, Riar missed the first two games after undergoing arthroscopic knee surgery in August, but played in the remaining 10 games of the season, including eight starts.
In 2007 he got off to a slow start after dinging a knee early on. Geer didn't return to his old self until late in the season. That affected his production for the year.
In 2006, as a Redshirt Freshman, Rian was the first tight end to lead the Buffaloes in receiving since Daniel Graham did so in 2001, and just the 10th to do so since 1963. In playing in all 12 games, including nine starts, he caught at least one pass in 10 games, with his top game in receptions and yards coming at Georgia, when he hauled in seven for 71 yards. It is important to note that he added about 12 pounds of muscle to his frame while redshirting.
Riar Geer is not much of a big-play threat and he doesn’t have the ideal size for a blocking tight end. Still he’s worth taking a closer look at because he’s tougher than his size suggests and he catches the ball well. His earlier (college) career had been marked by injuries and legal woes. But Geer rebounded to lead all Big 12 tight ends in his senior year.
Another report says:
Strengths: Geer is a Complete player who can both contribute in the passing game and as a blocker. He possesses Solid hands, decent quickness and is very tough to jam at the line. Riar is more of a possession receiver, but gets off the ball quickly and can be dangerous down the seam. Decent athlete who uses his body well to shield defenders from the ball. Turns and gets upfield quickly. Excellent blocker. Strong base, strong hands and overall core strength more reminiscent of an offensive lineman. Gets Good push in the run game and sticks to blocks. Almost an extra tackle in pass protection. Plays some H-back.
Weaknesses: Riar lacks explosion and deep speed. He doesn't have the agility or leaping ability of the elite pass-catching TE's. Sometimes goes games without a catch. Despite his blocking prowess, is not the very large for the position.
Projection: Mid-round pick with very low risk. Not flashy and may not start, but with the abundance of two and three man TE sets, he's almost a lock to play on Sundays.
Geer is being looked at as both a tight end and fullback by teams and could be picked in the later rounds. He is a good receiver and a decent blocker, but lacks the speed and athletic ability of some of the elite tight ends in the NFL. He projects as an H-back, FB, TE type player, which is probably where he'll play in the NFL.
It will take a strong Training camp for Riar Geer to get an invitation to the Practice Squad. The injury bug has slowed his development and he may never have the strength to make it as a blocking tight end. He projects better to the Fullback position where speed isn't as much of a factor.
My Depth Chart
Though the Broncos used a 2nd round pick last year on Quinn, Daniel Graham will remain the starter. The team will keep three tight ends on the roster. Richard Quinn has the #2 spot locked up and really needs to emerge this year. He also has a role on the Special Teams Unit. Marquez Branson is penciled in at 3rd string, will play Special Teams this year, and has been doubling up at Fullback. Overbay may challenge Branson, but he is probably destined to the Practice Squad. Geer will be fighting for a possible place on the Practice Squad. It will all depend on how the pieces fall and whether Josh McDaniels sees a need for the 3rd Tight End to have better receiving skills than blocking skills. Graham and Quinn have been dropping passes this spring, and Branson missed some OTA practices with an undisclosed injury. I will be keeping an eye on the battle for the 3rd Tight End between Marquez Branson and Nathan Overbay in Training Camp. And you never know when a Pre-season injury will factor in to the equation.
Go Broncos!
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Good starter but the others have a lot to prove
another good article KK thanks.
"The Holy Writ of Gloucester Rugby Club demands: first, that the forwards shall win the ball; second, that the forwards shall keep the ball; and third, the backs shall buy the beer." - Doug Ibbotson
very true Steve
but I firmly believe the upside of the rook’s and 2nd year players is off the charts! This is group is one that I am excited about and think its going to be one of the best group of TE’s for years to come :)
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
@KaptainK..Nice points.
It has always been stated that this offense does not use a TE very much. BUT last year I believe Graham had more screens than Knowshon. This offense (at least last year) spent a LOT of time trying to move the ball by using scrimmage line passes or screens.
I do understand that if the TE’s have stone hands then you do not use them that way. Graham in 2007-2008 had good stats for receiving. And Quinn showed decent hands at the combine. But now we hear that they are dropping everything in OTA’s.
I hope that camp turns this around or just use TE’s as extra tackles.
I may seem down on the TE situation but am very high about the WR’s. Yes I know OTA’s are shorts instead of pads but preciseness in routes looked 110% better than last year.
OH and Marquez Branson was very active before the injury.
Graham's always had stone hands
he came to Denver in part becuase he wasn’t used up to his full route-running potential in NE. and he does have outstanding speed and agility for a TE. The problem is, he doesn’t catch the ball enough when he gets open.
Don’t get me wrong, I like the guy, I think he’s an asset to the O. It’s just that his contribution to the O is likely to be as a blocker. IMO.
Belief is accepting something because you’ve been convinced to do so, whether you like it or not. Faith is accepting something because you want to accept it.
by Hercules Rockefeller on Jun 28, 2010 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions
True
But did he drop any more passes than Scheffler?
Now that that is over.....
by 3nS on Jun 28, 2010 1:08 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
no, but
His ability to get open or stretch the field was more limited than scheffler’s. IMO they were both limited TEs from a pass catching perspective, for different reasons. the advatage to Graham is that he’s also a top-notch blocker. so it stands to reason that if you use Graham as a blocker, where he excels, then you’ve got one more WR on the field instead to stretch the D or work the middle of the field. (presumably there will be few 2 tight end sets this year, although that also depends on the O-line’s health).
Belief is accepting something because you’ve been convinced to do so, whether you like it or not. Faith is accepting something because you want to accept it.
by Hercules Rockefeller on Jun 28, 2010 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions
I have to remind myself to forget about the old pass-catching TE role from Shanny's offense.
I’ve always liked that aspect of the Bronco’s offense. just look at all of the good TE’s we’ve had come through here in the last 10-15 years – Sharpe, Jeb Putzier, Byron Chamberlain, Desmond Clark, etc. (and I’m missing one, the guy who went to Minnesota). even our cast-off’s tended to be starters on other teams (Putzier and Clark, who’s one of the Bear’s most long-term starter nowadays). I think, as fans, it’s fun to watch how some of the second-tier offensive players can have an impact becuase they’re guys we follow and get to know, but the opposition and the commentators don’t know that much about them. So when Derrick Loville releives TD in the 1997 wild card game agains the Jags, and then runs for more than 100 yards in the second half, that’s pretty sweet. Or when Byron Chamberlain catches two TD passes in one quarter (also against the Jags IIRC) years later, that’s pretty sweet too. I always enjoyed the fact that our O got some pretty great production out of the TE, with more consistency than perhaps any other team over the course of the last 10-15 years.
This crop of TE’s isn’t nearly as exciting. Graham’s a great blocker, and a great guy, but he’s got rock-hard hands. the other guys are relative uknowns. That said, I’m still psyched about this group, becuase they seem to fit the plan McD has in place. and our go-to guys as dedicated fans will still be there, it just won’t be the TE like it always has been. Maybe our “Secret Weapon” will be a back up RB catching the ball in the flat, or a 3rd or 4th WR (or a certain amazingly athletic back up QB) There’ll be someone who’ll emerge as that fan favorite, It’s just going to take some time getting used to the fact that it’s not a TE.
Belief is accepting something because you’ve been convinced to do so, whether you like it or not. Faith is accepting something because you want to accept it.
by Hercules Rockefeller on Jun 28, 2010 12:13 PM MDT reply actions
Nice TE breakdown Kaptain
Although I have high hopes for this group, alas, I can only give them a C at this point. While there is no question that Graham and Quinn do well blocking, the question remains as to which TE will give the offense a consistent target downfield. Branson is getting lots of good press, but, until we actually see the production on the field his value remains a question mark. I agree Overbay may come in and push Branson for the 3rd spot. Time will tell on this group. The running game should be effective with the blocking ability of Graham and Quinn.
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
I agree with you bc
A solid C
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Jun 28, 2010 12:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Yep - graham is solid but everyone else....
Quinn has to prove he can at least threaten to catch the ball… otherwise we may-as-well put in Hochstein in as a 6th lineman.
Branson has been getting good press, but is otherwise a total unknown.
Overbay/Greer are limited athletes that could be solid backups (with some seasoning), but offer no real upside.
Gotta say I love Overbay’s soft hands and how he used his body to shield defenders, etc. in the passing game in college however… from the EWU highlight film someone posted a few months back, he looks like a gamer… but who knows how that translates to NFL competition/defenders, and if he can’t get off the blocks, it could be totally moot as then he’s just a slow version of Scheff….
…. C is my vote, and thats probably a touch generous because we go 4-wide so often….
the question remains as to which TE will give the offense a consistent target downfield
Damariyus Thomas.
I cam see Thomas lining up at TE from time to time. If that happen they might just carry 2 TE’s and add a player at another position.
Now that that is over.....
by 3nS on Jun 28, 2010 1:14 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very interesting. A TE who runs a 4.3 or 4.4 40 time. That is an interesting thought and now my imagination is just running wild with possibilities.
It makes a lot of sense because the scouting reports of Thomas say that he can block. Being at GT certainly had a lot to do with it. However, I wonder if he would be able to take on a linebacker at the TE position instead of just coming into the box to blow up a safety or stay outside and man up on a corner like he is used to doing at WR.
Oh, how I wish I could come to training camp…
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Jun 28, 2010 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions
Its a good idea
But blocking CB’s and Safeties with an occasional crack-back block (if you don’t know what that is, look it up on youtube, its a cheap shot WR’s are allowed to put on LB’s, Hines Ward is the best at this block) Is much different than down blocking DE’s and working up to the next level on some LBs. Maybe he could occasionally line up that close and still release, but then the D could just as easily put a CB on him or jam him with an LB.
TE is the biggest weakness of the entire team. Not a single passing catching TE on the roster right now. Lots of question marks and questionable talent.
Quinn proved nothing in 2009 except that he can jump offside’s on 4th and 4th and sniff out a fake punt (one great and one terrible play is about all I remember). But we used a 2nd round pick on this TE, so that is his role 1st and foremost. His ST exploits don’t do anything for me. I didn’t see a great blocker in 2009 and I really didn’t see a pass catcher. If this guy is our future at TE, I’m worried. Beyond the Phonz, if you ask me which high 2009 draft pick looks like a wasted one, Quinn is the obvious answer. That we purposefully traded up for this guy and the Phonz… That looks like terrible scouting to this fan. One of many reasons I’m not even close to jumping on the McX bandwagon.
I was never a fan of Scheff so his departure doesn’t make me feel one way or another, but McX really should have done better in the 2009 or 2010 draft to address this position. Quinn was a reach and a risk for a blocking TE with so little pass catching production. Hearing how poorly he played in the recent OTAs was discouraging, but not surprising.
Graham had a very average season for such a well paid TE. I think he is on the downside of his career.
I vote D for TE position, depth and starter quality. This spot is a weakness for Denver.
I'm rooting for Team USA at the World Cup!
McG
I agree with it being our biggest weakness as of now. But I can also see this being a big plus for us in a couple years. I think these youngsters we have have more upside than down, even though they are relatively unknown. According to the scouting reports, these guys were studs on their teams in college though!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
I’m not sure we have any youngsters on the team with any upside at TE. We just have question marks, undrafted rookies and a 2009 2nd round pick getting a lot of bad press after the recent OTAs. Me thinks McX missed a chance to address TE in the past two drafts. After just a few weeks to scout, they got over excited about a marginal player like Quinn and missed out on some better and more productive players. McX usually says he likes to draft productive college players but I guess that didn’t apply to Quinn credit because he was pretty invisible at UNC. 12 total catches in four years.
He better have more than that by mid Oct this season. Will he?
I'm rooting for Team USA at the World Cup!
I'm with you
Pretty weak overall… Can’t rely on any of these guys for a catch at a key moment.
by Merlin Scott on Jun 28, 2010 9:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Weakness?
I mean, its kind of hard to call it a weakness when we hardly use it. To me, TE’s, especially pass catching ones, are a luxury, not a neccesity. Good TE’s are nice to have, but you can’t tell me that TE is as important as say the QB, DL, CB’s, OT’s, etc. Its nice to have good ones but again its mostly a luxury, not a neccesity.
Fair point. If you are going to have a big weakness, better at TE than D-line or OT. That said, we kind of suck at TE so I’m not thrilled, but your point stands.
I'm rooting for Team USA at the World Cup!
totally agree
Are we good there? No. But again if McD’s O’s biggest weakness is at TE, I won’t be too mad. Could we improve the position? Yes. Should we? Not yet, let’s see how Quinn and Branson turn out
by DBroncs1414 on Jun 28, 2010 10:59 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah
IIR, Quinn had at least two (and maybe three) of those offsides on 4th down. I think he was responsible for 3 ST penalties as well.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
Quinn didn’t show me much of anything in 2009. Hearing that he is playing poorly in the OTAs bums me out, but the guy is a long way away from stud status.
I'm rooting for Team USA at the World Cup!
I agree
You’ve made some great points that do need to be addressed. I have more confidence in this year’s draft than last year’s. I am hoping that the excuse of not being prepared (for the 2009 draft) is a valid one. We can only wait. That is why I stated that Quinn needs to emerge this season. Do something is more like it.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
yes, he is a long way from a stud
But how much of an impact can a blocking rookie TE make behind Scheff and Graham? This isn’t a make or break year, not by a long shot, but if he has potential to start we should see some glimpses of it this year
by DBroncs1414 on Jun 28, 2010 11:09 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Actually I think it is
Graham is one of the highest paid TEs in the league, if not the highest paid (thank you Shanny) and he is in no way one of the top five. Either this year or next is his contract year and the Broncos need to know whether Quinn can step in and fill Graham’s role or not. No way McD/X continue to pay Graham what Shanny did so either Quinn can replace Graham or we have to go find another replacement.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Jun 29, 2010 6:55 AM MDT up reply actions
I gave our TE's a D as well.
I’m hoping coach knows how to use the abilities he has. I doubt we’ll try passing to many TEs this season. Just coach them to block well, and let them be traditional tight ends.
Do you think having a catching TE is necessary in the modern NFL?
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
I'm really pulling for Geer to make the team...
I’m obviously biased, as I am a CU student, but he got a real bum deal in Boulder. He had a very good Freshman year and made some really good plays.
He was really lookin’ like the real deal and then of course he went through some injuries and of course….Coach Hawk arrived…..and no one shines in THAT offense….I had to re-read the stat that he had 36 receptions because honestly I didn’t think they even threw it to him that many times.
Dancin' in the streets of Hyannis.
魏 多福
Every CU Buff has a bum deal in Boulder as long as Dan Hawkins is ruining that team. That clown doesn’t know the 1st thing about football so you can’t expect CU players to actually improve while in college. With a coaching staff that bad, those boys get nothing but worse.
Love that Pac-10 move. Will be good timing for a new coach, recruiting territory.
I'm rooting for Team USA at the World Cup!
I gave it a C
I agree with McGeorge that Quinn hasn’t shown anything, but I’m very optimistic about M Branson. I Like Graham and we know what we have in him. I don’t see either FA TE contirbuting this year. KK I know this article is about the TE personnel, but I really don’t know anything about Bob Ligashesky? Any info on him?
I could do some research
on Ligashesky, but I believe the coaching position will be part of this Preview series. Please stay tuned. =)
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
I gave the group a C...
only because of Daniel Graham’s abililty, but there are questions about who will fill the other 2 spots.
Daniel Graham is 1 of the most underrated TE’s in the game. You put him on the line to block and he’ll take care of his man. You send him a pass and he’ll catch it a nd give the defender a nice stiff arm. I think given the chance to go out and stretch the middle of the field he wont be the best ,nor will he be the worst, about middle of the pack…efficient.
I don’t know how Graham can be underrated when he is one of the highest paid TEs in the NFL and a former Top 25 overall pick. Saying he is underrated sounds more like MHR trying to play some disrespect card vs the reality of Graham’s standing in the NFL.
Most NFL fans know Graham. He is what he is, a great blocking TE that is quite limited in the passing game. Just look at his career stats. The guy is overpaid, not wildly overpaid, but somewhat overpaid for what he brings to the team.
I'm rooting for Team USA at the World Cup!
I gave a C too
(Nice write-up btw, though, really gave me more insight on the newbies like Overbay). I always think Graham is underrated and solid as a starter. Quinn I am optimistic about. After that there’s a severe drop off thus my grade about the depth. But I could see one of the free agents stepping in and improving. I worry if they get hit by injury to 1 of the top 2 guys though. But as noted above, TE is not one of the more important positions in a McDaniels led offense.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Tight End is easily our biggest area of concern as of right now.
Daniel Graham is fine. He is the only reason this group is a C in my book. He isn’t great, but he is an adequate starter who catches the passes we ask him too. He is a good fit for McD scheme. Behind Daniel Graham is a mess.
Richard Quinn is the person we need to step up, but he isn’t. All the reports have been bad coming out of OTA’s. He is expected to be the other starting tight end. Now, I haven’t read many reports on Quinn’s blocking, but it is probably the most important. He was drafted to be a blocker. If he is a good blocker then it doesn’t make everything terrible. As long as his blocking is fine then McD can use some 3 tight end sets and have Branson be the receiving tight end. But, if McD is planning on 2 tight end sets then Quinn needs to improve on his receiving.
Branson is not really a tight end. He is going to be our receiving fullback. From my understanding, He is taking all of his reps from the fullback position.
Overbay and Greer are undrafted college free agents who are largely unproven. I do have some hope that Greer can improve enough to make the roster in the future. He was a pretty good receiver at Colorado. Hopefully he could be a well balanced tight end. Quinn could be the blocker. Branson could be the receiver and Greer could be the balanced tight end…if only fairytales worked out that way.
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October 11, 2009: Remember the McD Fist Pump.
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With all the talk of Branson being the potential 'receiving TE',
it makes me wonder if the Broncs would even know how to use one if we had him. Gates isn’t much of a blocking TE, but he sure is a game changer. How much would a guy like Gates even see the field in Denver since he isn’t a “well-rounded player”?
That is a good point, IMO . . .
It was well discussed on MHR last year how the Broncos lacked a genuine deep threat. Yet Scheffler was a tremendous threat deep down the middle. How much did they use him in that capacity? Maybe I’m missing something, but my impression is, not much.
So now, McDaniels mentions Branson as the pass receiving element among the TEs. As you implied, will that really make a difference? It takes using them in that capacity . . .
-
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
they didn't use anyone in that capacity
let alone scheff. to the degree that they took shots downfield, Scheff was a target on abut a 1/4 of them, making him one of the team leaders in that category.
I think a lot of that comes down Orton’s confidence in letting it rip. he can do it, and with a full year under his belt, I think he will be confident that he is making the right choice when he sees something downfield. It would be a huge benefit if any of our TEs showed consistency in being able to beat coverage in the deep seam, since they are the only route runners who operate there.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 28, 2010 9:57 PM MDT up reply actions
I think a lot of people really doubt Graham without giving him his fair shake!
Shannahan brought him in and intended to use him as a passing threat and did. What I have always noticed about Graham (more in NE than here) was his ability to create a mis match inside the 10 yard line. I think that there is his strong suit, whether run or pass Daniel is a great asset to have inside the 10. Quinn resembles him (from college film). While not asked to catch much he did catch sparingly for his team in college and they were game changing catches! I think with Marshall gone the distribution down at the goal line is going to be much more even! Graham, Decker, Quinn, Moreno, Buckhalter, Thomas, Royal, and many others will get a fair shake down there.
I gave us a B as far as depth because of how I think they will be used and what they can do potentially as a group!
GO BRONCOS
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
Receiving TEs are over-rated
all this concern about whether the TEs can be receiving threats or not is much ado about nothing. As Lou Holtz once said, “you could send the Venus de Milo out; they still gotta cover her.”
Sure it would be great to have a Tony Gonzales or Gates, but that a luxury; not a necessity. You need a TE to run their routes and occupy their defenders. Often that involves freezing a safety. If they can do that, then catching the ball is a bonus. Otherwise they create openings for other receivers.
A TE at the head of a bunch or stack formation can blow up press man. A TE who can create a good rub will open up another receiver on a crosser. A TE who gets to the safety on a tunnel or bubble screen can be the difference between 2 yards and 10 yards.
Fantasy football is about sexy stats; real football is about making the other players around you better – improving the team as a whole instead of building individual stats.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Jun 28, 2010 8:13 PM MDT reply actions 3 recs
couldnt have said it better myself!
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Jun 28, 2010 8:32 PM MDT up reply actions
+1
- Become an unshakable optimist by thinking continually of the things you want to happen, and by refusing to think about the things you fear might happen!
by BroncoSense72 on Jun 29, 2010 7:33 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't think we have too many loose ends in the tight end department.
That’s the whole of the matter…
ROFL!
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Jun 28, 2010 10:42 PM MDT up reply actions
bazinga
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We've fallen for one of his classic practical jokes.
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by Troy Hufford on Jun 29, 2010 8:01 AM MDT up reply actions
Yes, that's the short end of it...in a nutshell
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
The reason I am happy with our TE's at the moment
Has a lot to do with the Health of our OTs. I don’t see either of them playing at 100% right now, or maybe even being in. So having to great blocking TEs is fantastic in my book.
When Clady and Harris are healthier next year maybe I’ll want more, or maybe they’ll be catching better. But for now I don’t think we’ll have the option of just sending them out to catch too much.
A 2TE set comes to mind - good point
2TEs, 2WRs, and 1 RB. The QB in the shotgun. We may see more of this in the first half of the season, if McD’s worried about the OTs health.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
Considering the way McD uses TE's, I'm not all that worried.
I gave Graham a B. The rest are a question mark and we need to see how it turns out. But the fact that their blocking is much more important than their catching in this offense, leads me to not lose any sleep over the position.
If Quinn doesn’t show improvement this year, then we may need to look at other options. I believe he is being groomed as Grahams replacement. I’m willing to give him the same time that other rookies deserve….2-3 years to show if they got it or not.
Thanks for the article!
Future 2010 MHR Fantasy Football Champion! ;)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
My pleasure Todd
It is a luxury to have a Gonzales, Gates, or Witten on your team and if you have them, they should be used. But if Tony Scheffler wasn’t getting as many touches as those first three, then either Josh didn’t consider him in their league, or the WR’s are featured as the receiving options. The “Ole” (read O-lay) blocking that Tony repeatedly used on game day killed more than a few running plays for us last year. I believe McD is trying to fix the running game, so naturally the emphasis needs to be on blocking.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Jun 29, 2010 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Thanks KK
Another useful piece of information.
IMO impossible to grade the depth at this point. Quinn and Branson are in their second year and Overbay and Geer are rookies.
Since, McD values blocking TEs above receiving TE, comparing our group with TEs like Gonzalez, Gates or Witten is a little like comparing apples and oranges.
Graham has been known to be good as a blocker. With an improved OL in the power blocking scheme, I suspect both he and Quinn will noticeably impress this year, since blocking is only as good as its weakest link.
Since we’ll likely keep only 3 TEs, I like what I hear about Branson. And I don’t fret about the fact that neither Graham or Quinn will be able to stretch the field. In tight situations I expect both to be more than adequate.
I don’t regard this as the “weakest” position at all. It could only be considered “weak” if the TEs needed to be pass catching TEs because there was a weakness in the WR and RB core in this area, which I also do not anticipate this year.
The biggest weakness I see on Offense this year is its youth and its injuries. Consequently, it may take a little while to show its worth, which I expect will soon be quite satisfying. I expect to smirk a lot later this year.
Thanks again KK for the post. Rec’d
by ivanthenotsobad on Jun 29, 2010 11:19 AM MDT reply actions
thanks ivan
good points
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Jun 29, 2010 12:53 PM MDT up reply actions
re-framing the TE issue
I came to the conclusion previously while in the process of analyzing the TE issue that the position should require more blocking in our offense in order to take advantage of the scheme.
There’s nothing wrong with using (yet) another receiver but there’s obviously a point where extra receivers become superfluous because the lack of blockers means that the QB has less time to throw, although one of his targets is more likely to be open. This is the tradeoff between protection and targets.
Therefore, the focus on receptions for the TE misses the point, since the target for most plays in the 3-WR set is a WR,. Production for TEs in this scheme is measured indirectly by the total amount of receptions for the offense as a whole along with other effectiveness measures.
An added point that became apparent when I posted on TEs long ago (after the 2009 draft of Quinn) was that there was trend back to blocking TEs, which was explainable because of changes in the strategy of defenses. In particular, teams that regularly face 3-4 teams (such as Denver) have a special need for blocking TEs because of the OLB34 backer playing wide of the OT. SEE SCHEMES MATTER
With so many defenses switching to 3-4 schemes and aligning linebackers pit the offensive tackles, offenses must adjust by making sure their tight ends can pass protect. Zone-and-stretch blocking schemes also require good blocking tight ends who can control linebackers and "wash out" defenders on the back side of plays.
I don’t think that our TEs performed that well last year even though the metric for their performance would usually be success in blocking, which isn’t a metric we often see. There were many instances in which I witnessed less than stellar performances (as pass catchers) and it’s one area that needs to improve and probably will as the players become more familiar with the scheme.
What’s often apparent when reading posts on football sites such as MHR is a philosophical chasm that’s extraordinarily wide. I love blockers and especially the ones who do it well. The contribution of a great blocker is registered in team success — in the catches and runs of other players. The only statistical measure of catches that interests me is one that compares TEs from a similar scheme who are used in a similar fashion. Mostly, I trust my eyes for input, but it’s hard to get a good feel for the performances unless I watch and re-watch the games while focusing on the TE. I haven’t been doing that as much as I’d like with regard for the TEs.
Here’s my grade of our TEs:
Graham – Blocking: A -, catching: C -
Quinn – Blocking: good, haven’t studied him enough, Catching: D (but not targeted yet)
Branson: unknown, unknown
no goats, no glory.
That is a fair analogy
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks































