Horse Tracks - 6/28/10 - Elway's Re-Emergence With Broncos Telling
by John Bena on Jun 28, 2010 5:44 AM MDT
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Thanks to Spock for posting his thoughts on Woody Paige's column from yesterday's Denver Post. It was a telling article for many, and a reminder for the rest of us of just how powerful Mike Shanahan had become. It was no secret that there was a divide between Shanahan and Elway when John retired. Why? Depends on who you ask. It was my belief that Shanahan was jealous that Elway was receiving all the credit for back-to-back Super Bowl wins. I always believed that secretly, Shanahan had hoped Elway would retire in 1999, when he did, so that Shanahan could go about establishing his OWN legacy sans #7. It was that selfish quest that led Shanahan to rush Brian Griese into the starting lineup on a veteran-heavy roster instead of going forward with Bubby Brister. Shanahan wanted the fan, and the players in the locker room to know that it was now Mike Shanahan's team, not John Elway's or any other player.
We all know the rest, the Broncos did get back to the Playoffs, eventually one step away from the Super Bowl in 2005, but each and every year the leaders inside the locker room dwindled, replaced by hand-picked Shanahan loyalists. The quest to find the quarterback that could firmly cement Shanahan's brilliance went from Griese to Plummer to Cutler. The losses started to mount. Anytime you lose a legend, there are going to be tough times. Unfortunately, Mike Shanahan chose to ignore the past instead of embracing it and using it to his advantage. Can you imagine Jay Cutler being mentored by Elway? Not anymore, but how about Tim Tebow? Josh McDaniels will make that happen, by not being intimidated or threatened by Elway's greatness. Good for him.
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Some thoughts before golf,
The farther we get from the Shanahan era, the more stories like this we keep hearing.
I know he and Bowlen were (are) great friends but I’m a little surprised he let Shanny run his little “Sultanate of Dove Valley” the way he did for so long.
I think we also have a little different perspective on Cutler, not that I want to restart that “conversation” but think about it…Shanny seems to of been driven to win W/O John Elway, and I think he finally realized he couldn’t do it without his choice QB so he went out, got his golden boy and proceeded to treat him like his golden boy. Then, all of the sudden Shanny is gone and there’s a new coach who gasp is going to make Cutler work hard and compete.
Finally, I wish Denver would just shamelessly rip off Philly already and build a giant statue of John Elway somewhere. I would vote the Capitol building.
Dancin' in the streets of Hyannis.
魏 多福
Is it still a rip off
if our statue is of a true living sports hero not a movie character?
also, given Shanny’s gift of gab, and manipulative qualities (I don’t consider these in a negative conotation) its no wonder to me that he had such a long run, and is even surprising to me that he couldn’t talk his way out of being let go when he did.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
I’m out at lone tree…playing alone, which is both slow and strange.
Dancin' in the streets of Hyannis.
魏 多福
by Gr3yStreet on Jun 28, 2010 8:44 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
watch out for the rattlers
fader nation is a conquered nation
Jerry Jones is Al Davis with a smile!
CHICAGO...Where Quaterbacks' careers go to die!
Thanks, John
Those are excellent points. Ordinarily, I am agnostic towards claims about the character of people we only know via the media, and of speculations about what happens behind closed doors. They’re like clutch-hitting in baseball: wide-open theories that give us carte blanche to speculate.
The case you make is pretty compelling. The whole thing has the look and feel of the fall of Rome, with the rationalizations and the failures slowly and surely being ratcheted up. The one thingI would add is that the maturation of the free-agent market really hurt Shanny. He signed boatloads of good players after the ‘95 and ’96 seasons, nd he was able to do so because a lot of those guys had not been locked up to team-friendly, longterm contracts by their previous employers. Rolling the dice, and having the Duke, and listening to Bobby Turner an Alex Gibbs…. it worked. But the world is unstable and the same strategy can’t work repeatedly. It just can’t.
Your argument is particularly compelling because it gives credence to the idea that McD needed to “change the culture.” As you can see by the fact I put it in quotes, I’m skeptical of statemnts like that. Normally, I’d say: change the talent, and you’re good. But if you walk into somebody else’s fiefdom, you do have to rearrange loyalties quickly.
by Chibronx on Jun 28, 2010 7:46 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
That's an excellent point.
Shanahan struck gold bringing in second-tier free agents and finding diamonds in the rough like Romo and McCaffery. Even before Shanahan got here, the Broncos were hitting home runs in free agency along the O-line (not just zim, but guys like Brian Habib). Later he tried that strategy (for example guys like Lional Dalton), and it had run out of steam. You can only stay ahead of the NFL for a few years… these days it’s much, much harder to re-build a team through free agency.
Belief is accepting something because you’ve been convinced to do so, whether you like it or not. Faith is accepting something because you want to accept it.
by Hercules Rockefeller on Jun 28, 2010 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions
I think you can say the same thing about his preference for smaller, athletic players, too. That was genius in the late 1990s. You still had some good finds like Ben Hamilton in the 2000s. And by the time he was done, you had a team stocked with 4-3 DEs who really should have been 3-4 OLBs. Athletic, penetrating DTs who didn’t take up all that much room. Interior offensive linemen who got pushed around badly in the red zone. In this case, it’s not that the copied Shanahan’s tendencies. It’s just that th eplayers got so much bigger.
Good point about FA
Shanny’s problem as a GM was always his ability to draft defensive talent… so I can totally see how the decrease in available FA talent after ~2003 hurt his ability to make up for this talent deficiency through FA.
You could possibly say the same thing about NE… their dominant defense of the early 2000s was largely built on 2nd tier FAs, supplemented by a few 1st round dominant players (Seymour, Wilfork, etc.). For all Belicheck’s genius DEF schemes, the NE DEF has largely been supplanted as the cream of the NFL by good drafting teams like Pitt and Balt….
Bill Simmons had some good stuff to say aobut the last-days-of-empire aspects of recent New England. A huge part of it is the increasingly frequent draft misses — they’ve taken, what 4 CBs in the first 2 rounds in the last 3 years, and their pass defense is still stinky. Jarod Mayo looked great his rookie year, now not so much. And it does seem like Belichick’s beloved defensive scheme is getting bsted routinely by folks from the attacking school of defense. I think it’s pretty telling that McD ignored Dean Pees in favor of somebody from the Ryan coaching tree. Attack, attack, attack.
You’re right about the Patriots’ FAs, of course. They spent big once — on Adalius Thomas — and that one still hurts. Shawn Springs didn’t work out. Junior Seau didn’t work out. Then again, maybe it’s more about the Patriots’ eye for talent than the talent pool itself, since the Broncos did very, very well last year with less-than-famous FA pick-ups.
yes, we did well
… but it probably isn’t sustainable. Almost all the guys we grabbed have been short-timers (30+ years old), so if we don’t draft/develop young talent behind them, we probably won’t maintain it.
E.g. Seau was great for 1 year for NE… and then the wheels fell off, etc.
What gives me great hope about Denver is that we have the young guys (McBath, Ayers, McBean, Baker, Cox, Smith, Bruton) in addition to/behind the vets. We’re not completely reliant on the FA guys, rather they are a bridge to homegrown folks behind them….
If we miss(ed) on those DEF draft picks… well lets just say I wouldn’t bet on McD collecting paychecks from Mr. Bowlen 3 years from now….
Thanks, John.
"The never-ending search for a truth never told."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jun 28, 2010 8:12 AM MDT reply actions
Not here to bash shannahan .Nor paint him in a negative light for some of his shortcomings which are history now.
Who really cares about what happened then ? I am proud of of shannahans days with
the broncos his his ways were his ways period . and they won us 2 superbowls !
Now that time is long over . To debate articles from bad sports writers from the denver post means squat to the current 2010 broncos team . IMHO ! And for the people who
like to read stories like these enjoy …
by broncosfaninphilly on Jun 28, 2010 8:16 AM MDT reply actions
About BMarsh predicting his biggest season yet....
Anyone else realizing more and more how selfish he really is? He has no concern for his team winning anything unless they work around his goals. That really sucks.
Comparing Michael Lombardi to Bill Williamson is like comparing an In-N-Out Cheeseburger to a sh## sandwich.
Williamson would probably eat both – no questions asked.
by Joe Medina on Jun 28, 2010 8:37 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
It will be very interesting to see how well that works out with how Miami has been running their offense. I think if they move away from their powerful running game, it would be a big mistake.
"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV
I don't think its as selfish as it comes off
I’ve found that sometimes really talented players don’t seem to recognize the distinction between their success and the teams success. The believe that if they are successful they have contributed to the teams success. It genuinely never occurs to them that the two are not identical.
by SlowWhiteGuy on Jun 28, 2010 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions
While I agree with you on this
I still think it’s funny that I’d almost guarantee BM’s favorite game last season was the LOSS to the Colts. If he’d only take a second and look at the obvious.
None of us go out and play for stats. You just do whatever you can to help the team out. -- Eddie Royal
good riddance!
may the fish falter
fader nation is a conquered nation
Jerry Jones is Al Davis with a smile!
CHICAGO...Where Quaterbacks' careers go to die!
by mdierk on Jun 28, 2010 11:31 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
What's really telling...
…is that in another article, John Elway also let it be known that if a minority interest in the Broncos didn’t pan out, and if there was an opportunity with another NFL team, he would look at that, too.
“That’s always a possibility, but it really depends on what Pat’s going to do,” Elway told the Denver Post.“Would I like to be a part owner? Yes. I’d like for it to happen here. If not, and there is an opportunity somewhere else, I’d definitely look at that, too.”
From the Woody Paige article, we know that Pat Bowlen had once offered to sell 20% of the Broncos to Elway, but John had declined that offer. And we also know from that same article that Paige had stated, “Bowlen repeatedly has said he will not sell the franchise.”
Apparently, Elway felt the need to play a little hard-ball with Bowlen, but it does make me wonder what’s really going on with Bowlen now to make John do that.
Read the first article.
It’s because John didn’t want to get involved with the Broncos; i.e. the apparent rift with Shanny.
"The never-ending search for a truth never told."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jun 28, 2010 11:05 AM MDT up reply actions
The rift with Shanny has been fairly well documented, albeit via circumstantial evidence.
I don’t know what the future holds for Elway and Bowlen, but from what I understand his children aren’t interested in being NFL owners. And (purely speculating here) Bowlen’s estate might not be big enough to pay the inheritance tax on the Broncos anyhow. So it’s not out of the question that Elway’s role with the Bronco’s expands in coming years and he becomes a part owner with the hope of buying out more upon Bowlen’s death*. Where Elway would get that sort of money is a question though, I remember reading that he lost a good deal of the money he picked up from selling his car dealerships in a string of questionable business. and NFL franchises go for about a B these days.
I’m not trying to be grim here or anything, and I wish him many more happy years. just speculating.
Belief is accepting something because you’ve been convinced to do so, whether you like it or not. Faith is accepting something because you want to accept it.
by Hercules Rockefeller on Jun 28, 2010 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes, I'm aware that there was a rift...
…John Elway said as much in that article from the National Football Post, but that same article also said, “Elway declined to specify what happened” (between Mike and him). This told me that John wanted to be classy about this rift, and I have to respect that, which is not to say that you don’t or that others don’t. I’m just saying that this is why I’m not interested in that rift, and why I didn’t mention it.
ah, I see what you mean.
I’m not really that concerned with it either, beyond the soap-opera aspect of it. I’d love to know the whole juicy story, just to satisfy myown curiosity. But it’s really not that relevant to the Bronco’s play on the field. And whatever happened would probably end up being pretty boring once you hear the whole story anyway.
Belief is accepting something because you’ve been convinced to do so, whether you like it or not. Faith is accepting something because you want to accept it.
by Hercules Rockefeller on Jun 28, 2010 3:44 PM MDT up reply actions
…it does make me wonder what’s really going on with Bowlen…
Reaching.
"The never-ending search for a truth never told."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jun 28, 2010 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions
Not at all...
…since Pat Bowlen obviously thought a lot of John Elway, I can’t wonder why John would effectively tell Pat that if he couldn’t be a part owner in the Broncos, he’d look elsewhere?
More importantly
Happy Birthday Elway!
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
by KaptainKirk on Jun 28, 2010 11:12 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Here,Here!!
We held the Alaska party here yesterday complete with cake, ice cream, baloons and screeming kids.
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
+1
I think he’s the first fifty year old I’ve heard of, who wanted another 50th Birthday party.
That's quite a long handle there, G Funk. - That's what she said.
First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jun 28, 2010 12:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Gaffney article makes me think of blocking
A quote in the Gaffney article along the lines of “it’s all about making plays when the ball comes your way.” I would like to think that if I were a player, I would add to that statement, “and lay someone out with a block when the ball goes someone else’s way.” McCaffery and Smith had side bets about who could lay the toughest block. So, makes me wonder, how do we see the downfield blocking with the WRs we have now? Maybe something to include in the writeup on Receivers when it comes out?
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