SI Article on Broncos
by afeather on Jun 8, 2010 4:41 PM MDT
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Peter King's article on the Broncos this off season. Some great insight into the development of Tebow as well as the complexity of the Broncos offense. Football at this level is definitely not for the weak minded. The players who master these skills are really something special.
After reading this, I just can't imagine anyone thinking Tebow will be starting this year. There's just too much for him to learn to get it down before the start of the season. He's going through so much, it must be overwhelming.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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NICE FIND!!!!!
Thanks for posting!!
I like Josh. But I need Ws.
by broncosmontana on Jun 8, 2010 12:06 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
such a good read i had to read it twice
Fantastic work by Peter King. A taste:
“Look at this,” McDaniels said in his office, cuing up digital video from a rookie minicamp less than four weeks earlier. A close-up camera had recorded throw after throw by Tebow on his first day as a Bronco, and on each one his torso rotated more than 90 degrees as he released the ball. “Spinning like a top,” McDaniels said. “Imagine you’re throwing darts and your body is spinning like this. You can’t have the control you want. How’s your release point going to stay the same?” McDaniels stopped the tape, then put on video from the previous day. Here was Tebow, a hand towel stuffed in his right armpit to force his right arm to stay tight to his rib cage as he threw. The motion was more compact, faster, and he appeared to have lost no velocity from the first day’s throws. “Now that looks like a quarterback,” McDaniels said.
I like Josh. But I need Ws.
by broncosmontana on Jun 8, 2010 1:03 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
+ 1
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
Yeah
But he sure is going to look silly with that towel still stuck there, during a game, oh and also, how will they keep it from falling out? Maybe they could just have the fullback follow him around holding it in.
by CPT.Caveman on Jun 10, 2010 12:04 AM MDT up reply actions
that's what
athletic tape is for! ; ) But I like the fullback idea, too. Maybe that’s the real reason we’re gearing up to field one this year!
I like Josh. But I need Ws.
by broncosmontana on Jun 10, 2010 6:06 PM MDT up reply actions
OMG. This is the best non-MHR article i've ever read! +1 just for the find!!
Great read, lots of mechanics, meeting room, and behind the scenes perspectives! AMAZING! A must read!!
"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery
by Alexander Wall on Jun 8, 2010 12:40 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
This is the kind of Article that would come out of MHR if we had backstage passes during the offseason. Freaking awesome.
"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery
by Alexander Wall on Jun 8, 2010 12:40 PM MDT up reply actions
I especially loved the quote on Tebow's bedroom poster:
HARD WORK BEATS TALENT WHEN TALENT ISN’T WORKING HARD. Boom, magnificent!
"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery
by Alexander Wall on Jun 8, 2010 12:41 PM MDT up reply actions
HT has quoted that several times
I’ve always like it.
I think it’s insider football jargon. :D
It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?
aka Solace
AFeather!
My old name for halo was A Leaf
by Warren Todd on Jun 8, 2010 12:45 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Very good read.
If this doesn’t excite you… You need to drink more.
Quit drinking the Kool-Aid and start drinking the good stuff, and everything is always alright.
by Chuck "DeadDrunk" Breedlove on Jun 8, 2010 12:50 PM MDT reply actions
Awesome find! Man this explains a lot in the way of play calling last year too. It must have been so frutstrating
for McD to be calling plays that he knew worked only to have someone mess it up. Man, we as fans can be pretty hard on this team and coach from the outside looking in when we don’t know what is going on. I loved this piece. Rec’d for sure. I hope we shock the world this year.
by BroncoMath101 on Jun 8, 2010 12:53 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Completely agree
All those times I screamed “Not another bubble screen!!”. Now I feel like had one player not made a mistake, who knows how successful those bubble screens would have been.
"I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Stay Puft!"
I know who knows...
Wes Welker! Lol.
"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery
by Alexander Wall on Jun 8, 2010 1:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Imagine that.
It isn’t just a matter of the coach being a “McDumbass”
Who’d have thought there was more to things than meets the eye? Amazing.
Why hate on your OWN team when you've got the Raiders?
by TheMastermind on Jun 9, 2010 9:22 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe tells us why Marshall and Scheffler were not seen as irreplaceable by McD!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
That was my thought as well
Smart intelligent dedicated and flexible players with talent can add to an offense. While players that don’t do there part in the scheme can restrict everyone. It certainly is looking like everyone is going to get more reps in the offense.
Even the running backs getting a full off season and training camp series will have a better chance to execute the schemes. .
Great article by Peter King
Great find, afeather!
I love all the behind the scenes stuff, especially that tranining session with Ben and Tim making 175 throws in 53 minutes. I never knew you could accomplish so much in so little time.
It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?
aka Solace
Orton is doing a good job!
For all you fans that think Orton is an idiot you should go put yourself in his shoes during a QB session. Playing QB is the hardest position on any NFL team. From OTA’s, to preseason to regular season you are under the gun. Think of this-Once the QB call the play in the huddle and get the team to the line you have to
(1) make sure your team is in the proper position (alignment)
(2) read the defense in order to:
figure out where is the FS, SS, are playing
what coverage is the defense in (man to man or zone)
who may blitz? blitz pickup?
your hot receiver(s) and routes
then decide, based on your called play is it the right play (pass vs run) and decide
to go with it or change it.
do this before time expires!!!
THEN!!, once the ball is snapped hope your called play is correct, hope the bitz is picked up, blocks are executed, your reads are correct and luck is on your side. Considering how Orton played last year cut him some slack. Orton had a career year and he did well. This year he should do good (better) again. Yes, Marshall is gone but Lloyd, Gaffney, Thomas, Royal and Decker will step up.
We have a good coach who knows how to run the offense! a good O-Line!, a good RB! and good WR’s. We have a good defense to boot. We may not win the SB this year but we will give San Diego a run for their money. IMO San Diego will have problems this year stopping the run, and with V-Jax looking to get suspended who will take his place during those games? Furthermore, who is their #2 receiver going to be? Yes, Rivers is good but the O-line, D-line and WR’s will be their achille’s heel. With some luck and barring injuries Denver should either win the AFC-WEST or again take second. As i have said before, this year I am not expecting the playoffs (to get in would be the icing on the cake). Next year though is a different story. If we don’t win the AFC-West then changes should be considered. Enough said on the that!!! Bring on the 2010 season and GO BRONCOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good points
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
QB is not the hardest position on an nfl team even in the slightest. Trying playing center, commanding a whole line, reading both offense and defense, while at the same time remembering a count and getting off the line quick enough to block a 300lb tackle.
"To all the critiques, thank you for the motivation… because it has been an edge for me and will continue to be an edge for me" - Tim 'the Mile High Messiah' Tebow
by David G. Little on Jun 9, 2010 8:20 AM MDT up reply actions
According to the article
At Florida, Tebow was accustomed to the center identifying the middle linebacker and calling out the blocking assignments. In Denver he’ll have to spell out both the play and the protection in the huddle, then make adjustments at the line. For instance, he might see a safety coming down to act as the middle ‘backer. In Broncos practice, even though Brian Dawkins, number 20, isn’t a middle linebacker (the Mike, in football parlance), quarterbacks might go to the line, identify Dawkins as the pivot for the defense and call out, “20’s the Mike!”
Sounds like the AB, at least in Denver, is responsible for much of what you just described as the center’s job.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Kudos on the article
And to Peter King, AND to Brady Quinn. So much to love about this article, but I loved Quinn saying basically, “I want to beat him by being better than him, but he’s still my teammate and I still want to help him succeed.” That’s the kind of attitude we should all be proud to see!
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
by ncm42 on Jun 8, 2010 2:35 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
In OTAs Quinn often was by Tebow’s side, clarifying points. “I feel like Tim and I have a lot in common,” says Quinn, a first-round pick in 2007 who never got a firm grip on the starting job in Cleveland. “My attitude is, I’m here to win the job—we all feel that way—but I’m also here to help him. I’ve been in his shoes. You don’t get a lot of reps when you’re not the starter, but you’ve got to be out there taking mental reps, going through the play like you’re running it.”
LOVE IT!
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
Agree. Brady Quinn is growing on me. Another high quality guy!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
I'd love to see what Quinn can do as a starter
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Jun 8, 2010 4:22 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
boydy, kudos to you too, sir!
I may be getting you mixed up with someone else, but I seem to recall you being pretty much NOT a fan of BQ. In that case, I say good on ya for keeping an open mind about the kid, and acknowleding the good stuff he’s bringing! Tip of the cap to the classy fandom you’re bringing, sir!
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
by ncm42 on Jun 8, 2010 4:50 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks man...yep.... was not a fan....like him as a kid but doubtful of him as a player but now I am routing for him to do well.....I am really liking our young team!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Me too.
I know the talent has to be there, but I am also a big believer that character does make a difference, especially at the QB position. Other players will see KO, BQ, and TT helping each other while competing for the same spots. To me, that will go a long way toward earning respect and the mantle of ‘natural leader’ from everyone else.
Not saying we need a team full of choir boys, but I love having a bunch of guys that represent the organization and the city in such a proud way. Now crossing my fingers that Ben Garland makes the roster….
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
I feel the same way!!!
I think our team is doing a great job both on and off the field. I haven’t been this proud to be a Bronco fan in a long time.
I can’t wait to play the underdog role this year!!
Go Broncos!!
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
Martin Luther King Jr.
by sbsbroncofan on Jun 8, 2010 9:35 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
At the risk of getting too mutually congratulatory,
Tip of the cap to you too, NCM, for acknowledging classy fandom when you see it, and, for that matter, for even noticing it in the first place. Just the kind of community-building comment that sets this site apart.
The opinion below is true.
The opinion above is false.
Great article Peter
This is exactly the reason I hate the bashing of MSM.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
I was surprised
This article was great because it was mostly objective reporting. Peter didn’t chime in about any opinion he has about the current state of the Broncos. Like Alexander Wall pointed out earlier, this article seems like it could have been writing by someone from MHR who had the kind of access Peter did for this.
"I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Stay Puft!"
Thats the problem though
No one at MHR could ever get as close to behind the scenes that Peter King could. Heck, half of the professional writers themselves don’t have the sources that Peter King does.
MHR is a great place for all things Broncos. The best on the net. But too many members here want yes man reporters – they dont want to read anything negative about their Broncos and instantly discredited anything that a member of the MSM writes that is negative. Even Peter King was ridiculed when he said Denver would draft a QB in the top 45 during this years draft. Turns out he was correct.
I agree though. What makes this article so great is how objective it is.
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
King's a great reporter...
The problem comes when he’s asked to share his opinion and analysis (and when he volunteers his political views). If you read his SI articles (the ones from the magazine, like this one) and about the first half of MMQB, he’s really pretty excellent.
And that’s really not even his fault. Being an analyst and a reporter are two different objectives, and to a certain extent they’re mutually exclusive (becuase an analyst is going to piss off too many people to maintain the connections a reporter needs to get inside access like that reflected in this linked article). Si.com would (IMO) be better off not asking King to do as much of the opinion stuff as he does.
Belief is accepting something because you’ve been convinced to do so, whether you like it or not. Faith is accepting something because you want to accept it.
by Hercules Rockefeller on Jun 9, 2010 7:39 AM MDT up reply actions
MMQB
I read his book and he mentions how he was specifically asked to interject his personal stories/opinions into his articles when MMQB was first created. I find some of it okay, but the problem is that he really gets to know certain players on a personal level and that forms a bias in his writing (cough…Favre…cough).
"I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Stay Puft!"
Does this sound like a guy with a Napoleon complex?
McDaniels thinks there are times when a coach has to be firm, and times when he needs to bend. “Bill [Belichick] taught me that ideas should be innocent until proven guilty,” McDaniels said of his former boss in New England. “Some people think ideas are guilty until proven innocent. You might suggest a play or an idea to a coach, and it gets shot down right away—like, Your idea is no good because I didn’t think of it. But if you do that too often, people stop coming up with ideas. And then you might be shutting off the flow of pretty good thoughts, and you’re stunting everyone’s development. I don’t want to be dictating. I want to be having conversations.”
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
I wonder if this has anything to do with how Orton's passes to the back of the endzone were always 20 feet high...
Then they worked on touch throws, followed by back-of-the-end-zone passes. “Throw ’em high, remember,” Ben McDaniels said.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
"I like when they push me," he said. "When they stop coaching me, that's when I'll be worried
Great quote
You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?
You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen
by johnnystarr on Jun 8, 2010 2:49 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
This article was a great find, thank you!
Great inside stuff, loved it.
by Gristle McThornbody on Jun 8, 2010 2:54 PM MDT reply actions
So jacked from this article...
I just pulled a Gus Ferotte and head-bumped the wall…
Going to the doctors now.
by ChicagoGene on Jun 8, 2010 3:01 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Hahaha!
"The never-ending search for a truth never told."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jun 8, 2010 10:24 PM MDT up reply actions
This was a great article.. defintely worthy of the front page.
So much good stuff in here, this article alone should silence anyone that doubts that Josh can get Tebow to pass like an NFL QB. Josh is way to smart to let that happen and Tim is way to committed to not succeed. I loved that Josh and Ben are spending extra time with him, you really get the sense that they are training (moulding) this guy to be the future QB of the Denver Broncos.
Loved all the little insights about the intricacies of the QB position and the info on our play calling, King mixed it in with some biography stuff perfectly.
Rec’d for posting, if i could Rec P.King i would as well.
This was one of my fav bits..
During the offense’s morning meeting veteran guard Russ Hochstein, who was with the Patriots for seven seasons when McDaniels was a New England assistant and an offensive coordinator, suggested that the coach set up blocking assignments in a more advanced manner, rather than relying on the quarterback to identify where the middle linebacker was and shift blockers accordingly. McDaniels said, in essence: Let’s get the basics down first, then move on to a more sophisticated scheme. Hochstein persisted. “Look,” McDaniels said, his blood pressure appearing to rise, “that’s Calculus 5, what you’re talking about. We’re in pre-algebra right now. Just do what the quarterback tells you to do. Block your man.”
Just knowing that all last year the Broncos Offense was in pre-algebra and this year with a second year QB, a few vets on the O-Line, receivers that know what they are doing and Knowshon in his second year.. we will see some calculus, and by next year we will be getting onto Chaos Theory (Tebow at QB)!
by HorseStance on Jun 8, 2010 3:46 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Chaos theory...
Will be the thing you see on the DEFENSIVE side of the ball! .
"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery
by Alexander Wall on Jun 8, 2010 10:02 PM MDT up reply actions
+1 Bazillion!
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
Agreed
I loved that too. A little insight into the nuts and bolts stuff. Also…it seems there is an atmosphere where the players really can have a back and forth with the boss man to a certain extent. The marketplace of ideas and all that jazz?
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
Yes.
but it also seems like there is a line between his “community forum” and his commitment to the way he wants to run his team. McD listens, but he has a vision and a direction, and he won’t be bulldozed. He listened to and considered Hochstein, but then shut him down. But he explained why he wasn’t going with Hochstein’s suggestions (the whole pre-algebra vs. calculus thing). He did, however, accommodate Orton’s request to run the pattern to the inside, as opposed to the outside. There seems to be a good balance of give and take. I like it!
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
by HarvJNep2n on Jun 9, 2010 8:38 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah.....all the inside stuff.... is now free for the PEOPLE!
like our top secret playcalls, what we’ll do on 3rd and short…. the plan of attack for each team throughout the season…. LOL.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
I loved how in depth that article was
It’s great to get an insiders look at the Broncos!
"Mr. President, call in the National Guard! Send as many men as you can spare! Because we are killing the Patriots! They need emergency help!" - Shannon Sharpe
Great find. The more I read an d listen to Peter King the more I like him.RECD!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Best article of the year, regarding our Broncos.
bar none. Great work Mr. King!
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 8, 2010 4:48 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Peter King is pure class
and it should serve no surprise to anyone here how good he is at what he does. He’s got the sources and resources to put together a damn fine article. Anyone that reads his Monday Morning Quarterback would agree to that. He and Michael Lombardi are two of the finest football writers in the business. I’ll stand by that until either of them proves otherwise (which they won’t.)
Comparing Michael Lombardi to Bill Williamson is like comparing an In-N-Out Cheeseburger to a sh## sandwich.
Williamson would probably eat both – no questions asked.
by Joe Medina on Jun 8, 2010 4:53 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
BEST ARTICLE ON TEBOW YET! GREEEEEAAAAAAAT FIND!
So many points to consider!
1) agree afeather, hard to see TT starting right away.
2) Hard not to see KO and the offence doing better this year just by having everybody on the same page.
3) This is a coach/student complex that has no ceiling of their potential
3A- and that means KO, Quinn, and TT!!
Tebow will make the adjustment on the mechanics, even if it takes til half way through the season.
oops- got to go. Patient to see!
simple math
By saying Orton and Quinn are far ahead of where Tebow is, while saying that Tebow is basically where Orton and Simms were last year…
that makes me rather impressed with Brady Quinn. And it shows that no matter what, we have a vastly improved quarterback stable over last season.
by tunesmith on Jun 8, 2010 5:07 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
VASTLY.
I agree. I’d love to keep all three of these guys for years to come. But a QB machine spits out starting-calibur QB’s. If they do well here, they shouldn’t settle for second or third string.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Very informative. Thanks afeather
Last season McDaniels installed a misdirection screen that Matt Cassel had completed 29 out of 30 times with the Patriots in ’08. The play drove McDaniels crazy in Denver. The back would run the wrong way, or the tackle would take a bad angle to the screen point and be late. Not until Week 13, against the Chiefs, did the Broncos run it perfectly; the result was a seven-yard touchdown from Orton to receiver Brandon Marshall.
I bet that is why Josh was hugging Marshall. They finally got the play right.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
It really gives one pause
to imagine how many plays look like horrible calls, and the casual (or even educated) observer has little inkling of what simple cog in the machine spun the wrong way. That article suggests Cassel was so successful in 2008 because the people around him knew what to do. McD called plays that he knew Cassel could execute, but didn’t have to question whether the rest of the offense could execute them or not!
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
by HarvJNep2n on Jun 8, 2010 5:57 PM MDT up reply actions 6 recs
I used to collect Marvel Comics,,,,back in the 60's and 70's
Had 2 copies of Fantastic Four #1
Wish I had had the forsite to keep them.
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Gonsoulin, Taylor, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
I hear ya Mike! My mom threw away a 3'x3'x2' box of comics!! Some were #1s & in some cases, the first couple years of "Hulk", "Daredevil", "Thor",etc!
Came home from the army & almost cried! LOL!!! GO BRONCOS!!!
She probably sold them for a boatload of cash and pretended she threw them away on accident.
And you were wondering where that new car came from. LOL! j/k… but really…. twighlight music plays
"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery
by Alexander Wall on Jun 8, 2010 10:06 PM MDT up reply actions
My father-in-law had
a box full of mint baseball card binders, including a Mickey Mantle rookie, along with several other high-value cards. His mom threw them away while he was in the Air Force.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
I got your back, Mike.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
My wife.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Thanks for the posting!!!
Really great article!!!
Guardian of the Gate to La La Land!
Gonsoulin, Taylor, Wright, Gradishar, Atwater, Davis, and Sharpe...
Why are they not in the Hall...I just don't understand.
This is the best MSM article
I have ever read. It is extremely encouraging to read that last year’s offense was pre-algebra and Hochstein’s trying to play the more complex schemes. That alone proves we haven’t seen anything yet!
Highly rec’d post!
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
by Horsepower on Jun 8, 2010 6:31 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
McDaniels'.dad
Didn’t realize how much of a guru Josh and Ben’s dad was with quarterbacks. Nice to hear how Tebow is improving in a short time.
"stand for something ... live with passion ... finish strong," --number 15
Both Josh and Ben
Owe a lot of their coaching style to their dad.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Their father
and especially what he passed on to his sons is very impressive. I have an article in the upcoming annual that talks about that link between them.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 8, 2010 8:41 PM MDT up reply actions
yes...father. Powerful Jedi was he.
POWerful Jedi.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
He is often referred to as a "coaching legend"
…at least in the state of Ohio, according to other stuff I’ve read.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
His dad was pretty well connected
Getting McD his first real coaching job with Saban at Michigan State.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Saban used to scout players in Thom's neck of the woods
when Saban was working for Ohio State. And in an example of “Its a small world,” Saban worked for Belicheck in Cleveland….
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 13, 2010 9:21 AM MDT up reply actions
afeather nice article thanks for posting...
Everything is on schedule…on plan….just need to be patient and let time do the rest…
oc60
"Peace of mind which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming."
God Bless the late John R. Wooden
Best Article I've Ever Read On the Inner Workings of what is happening with the Broncos
Excellent, Peter King. Simply excellent.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Hey hey now!
No more comments from you TJ until we see another sack! You’re slacking! You know what happens when this Marine misses his weekly fix of interesting questions loaded with raider-bashing sidecomments??
I start posting crazy images of photoshopped cats that at first appear to have some relevance to my comment but are totally ridiculous, lame, and waste large quantities of space on the computer screen that could otherwise be devoted to TJ’s Sack articles!!
"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery
by Alexander Wall on Jun 8, 2010 10:12 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
AW, Well if the Marines are calling, I feel like it is my patriotic duty.
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
I knew a violent pu- er.... cat once.
Dude, what are the stats on sniper kittens and their accuracy?
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
This article proved one thing to me
that we were nowhere near where we needed/wanted to be last year/ The team was not ready to contend or win. We’re begining to see reasons for why the offense was the way it was. And we still finished 8-8. Year 2 based on knowledge of the system alone should be a vast improvement.
I also realize now that we should expect to see a lot of verterans and little rookie play on the Oline this year. If last years faults could be partly blamed on unfamiliarity with the scheme then inserting rookies now would not advance the cause. The vets will start this year and we’ll see the rookies sparingly and maybe they’ll be ready to start next year.
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
by T.Dot_Bronco on Jun 8, 2010 10:03 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Very valid point. I think you just filled up my koolaid glass... yet in doing so I think you cracked the glass ... **sadface**
I also realize now that we should expect to see a lot of verterans and little rookie play on the Oline this year. If last years faults could be partly blamed on unfamiliarity with the scheme then inserting rookies now would not advance the cause. The vets will start this year and we’ll see the rookies sparingly and maybe they’ll be ready to start next year.
"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery
by Alexander Wall on Jun 8, 2010 10:14 PM MDT up reply actions
LOL
sorry dude. That’s what I do. I bring em up and crash em down. If it’s any help we’ll win 9 or 10 games this year.
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
by T.Dot_Bronco on Jun 8, 2010 10:16 PM MDT up reply actions
It's so refreshing
to read an article that is written without the gratuitous “pull it out your @#$” opinions. I understand why the networks tell their analysts to be opinionated. However, they come off much smarter when they do some research, write an article, then let the reader decide. It is like they were educated or something. I think ESPN and other outlets should have NO OPINION day at least once a week, just pure factual analysis and see how the ratings do. C’mon billionaires give it a shot.
Notice that this article neither patted McD’ on the back nor condemned him to hell. Was just a very well written factual analysis piece. AAAAaaaahhhh. A San Diego fan could read this and decide that based on what he read the Bronco’s still won’t be good this year. Denver fans see posible prove that McGenius exists. The objective folk can say; We Bronco fans learned something about the inner workings of the off-season. We can all feel smarter today.
Sometimes men wear stretchy pants...just for fun.
Pay no attention to rhetoric, especially in headlines...it would just make you dumber
by Welcome2Boise on Jun 9, 2010 12:25 AM MDT reply actions 7 recs
proof* that McGenius exists...
my proof-reading skills are diminishing. Must go to grad-school, get edge back.
Sometimes men wear stretchy pants...just for fun.
Pay no attention to rhetoric, especially in headlines...it would just make you dumber
by Welcome2Boise on Jun 9, 2010 12:27 AM MDT up reply actions
GREAT stuff!
Rec’d W2B
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
Thanks for this article link, afeather. Excellent article.
The comment as to how long it took the Broncos to run that reverse screen properly (against KC in week 13) says a lot as to how difficult the offense is and how long it takes everyone to be on the same page. Just think where we will be when that happens.
TT has a lot of reps ahead of him before he is ready to do this automatically.
It also MIGHT say alot about why some guy are not with the team anymore.
Recall, Marshall didn’t really bother to learn the playbook, according to himself, in TC last year. He was playing catchup all year. He was too focused on kicking footballs than doing his job last season.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
by HarvJNep2n on Jun 9, 2010 8:45 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
+1
A great read!
There's lots of ways to lose your life. All at once............or one day at a time.
Good Stuff
Good Stuff… Haven’t been given as detailed picture of what goes on in the Broncos practices ever…. It’s nice reading something and feeling like your standing right there watching.
by Jeremy Foster on Jun 9, 2010 5:44 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
This is my favorite article in a long time
Reminds me of Fatsis book, that is the last time I got such a real perspective of the day to day life of a Broncos player. We are lucky that Tebow is so popular it drove Peter King to Denver to write the article.
+1 = 50th Rec
That article was so good, I read it 3 TIMES!!!
Good find afeather!! Thanks alot! Rec’d!
Looking forward to the second year in McDaniels system!
The depth of King's article is unprecedented...
…yep, I’m with everyone here…this is an amazing glimpse into our teaining facility. King gave us the ability to enter the film room, meeting room, and closed practice…sans camera and MSM “opinions”. As a…um…fanatical sports fan (Broncos/Lakers/Rockies), I feel like I’ve been given the keys to Dove Valley. Fascinating read!! All three times!!!
King gave us the ability to glimpse the inner workings of training and practice, see our coaching staff as they really are, and get an honest portrayal of our men at work…particularly our spectacular group of young QB’s.
Vinny Gambini: "Ms. Vito, Can you tell the court what this is a picture of?"
Ms. Vito: "Ya know what it's of"
***********************************************************************************************
Excellent article!
I felt as if I was in the Broncos facility for awhile! :)
Future 2010 MHR Fantasy Football Champion! ;)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
OMG actual sports journalism and not just another op/ed piece from some windbag.
I loved this article!
Some people got nothing to be angry about so they're angry about nothing.
This ishat PK does best
King is a great reporter when he uses his access to report on “human interest” type stories or behind the scenes accounts.
His analysis is often suspect, as he follows too many “common knowledge” truisms that have been proven false… but no one really compares on articles like this.
Great article!
The best thing about this is...
I keep trying to tell the haters, you really have absolutely no idea what these guys go through every day, how hard it is and the amount of preparation and coordination that goes into putting even a BAD team together, let alone a champion.
Its easy to sit on the couch and bitch but what’s not easy is even being average in the NFL. And being great is a whole different level of preparation. And I think that’s what we’re seeing here.
At least, I sure hope so.
Why hate on your OWN team when you've got the Raiders?
by TheMastermind on Jun 9, 2010 9:25 AM MDT reply actions 3 recs
Smart players
You really can’t be “dumb” and play in the NFL. It just requires too much thinking and you won’t survive if you can’t handle that and excel at it. The average player must have a very high “football” IQ to even compete. So for McD to say he is looking for smart players, he probably means he is looking for smarter players. I love football teams like that.
"I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Stay Puft!"
Exactly
That’s why I try not to be overly critical and always roll my eyes and cringe whenever someone complains about play-calling, or call players out, especially rookies (i.e., the constant criticism of Alphonso Smith and to a lesser, but still great, extent Robert Ayers). After reading Fastis’ book and articles like this, you realize how complicated the game is and how daunting it must be mentally.
Won't bow. Don't know how.
+ 1
"The never-ending search for a truth never told."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jun 10, 2010 7:52 AM MDT up reply actions
The other side of the coin
is that no matter how informed someone is about the game, even a child could realize the difference between one team being able to execute while another doesn’t. or one rookie performing admirably, while another struggles.
That comparison is what motivates a lot of critical thinking about teams and players, as it should. Outright condemnation is one thing, but disappointment, pessimism and doubt are all pretty reasonable responses to the spectacle of one player doing well while another one struggles.
As long as people get their butts to MHR to find out the “why,” and have some fun, everything should shake out alright…
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 10, 2010 8:22 AM MDT up reply actions
There is a lot more than meets the eye when it comes to preparation.
Right down to the chow they eat to the cleats on their feet…
that was fantastic! rec'd
thanks afeather.
a) so pumped at how much work Tebow is actually getting
b) love the descriptions of how things didnt go particularly right last yr (and not all Orton’s doings)
c) I can only imagine Cassel reading that and crying himself to sleep.
d) how great is it to have your dad/teacher there
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. - Benjamin Franklin
Whoa there...Did you just say what I think you said?
My prescription: two happy pills, (since they’re best taken with food, enjoy a nice medium rare Tebown steak), chase the whole thing with a glass half full of the orange koolaid (Orange Crush will do in a pinch), get a good night’s sleep and try that comment again…. - Broncs Cheer
What everyone else said! ;-)
I read it online and yet will read it again when I get the print issue in hand.
And yeah, anyone who thinks Tebow will start at some point next year needs to read that article and then think again.
Also shows how with more time together for the receivers it will benefit the QB play greatly. Some confusion on WR’s part many times last year.
Anyway, great great stuff.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Loved it!
Sheds new light on the frustration that provided me with my favorite moment from last year— “All we’re trying to do is win a MF’n game!”
I could see how reading this article could get a guy excited for 2010. I mean, what did the article say, we have 9 of 11 starters returning? If the offense was clicking like an old four calendar engine last year, we should be up to a decent V6 in 2010 at the very least, no? Hell, with our new and improved defensive line in place, we should be able to handle the Michal Bush’s and Jamal Charles’ of the world. With these defensive improvements, we should have a big enough offensive engine to get over the playoff hump that’s been so tough the past few years. However, this article actually terrified me. Why you might ask? Well, it’s the offensive line.
Ideally, we’ll travel to hot and humid Jacksonville, FL in early September with a starting O-Line consisting Clady, Harris, Hochstein, Kuper, and the best of the young guys (Walton, Beadles, or one of the Olsens). The scary thing is that it’s just as likely we’ll open the season with Kuper, Polumbous, Beadles, Walton, and one of the Olsens. Those are the two extremes, but the fact remains that Clady, Harris, and Hochstein are far from sure things. We already know we’ll have at least one guy out there with a spinning head. That should be manageable, but two guys? Three?!? Yikes. If that’s the case, we’ll be hearing a lot more of this.
Won't bow. Don't know how.
More from Peter via Twitter
This is the second time I’ve been behind the curtain in my 26 years covering the NFL. Fascinating stuff.
"I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Stay Puft!"
Let's Not Get Carried Away
I enjoyed that article a lot, and it sure gives me hope that things will just work…. better in year 2. But the PK love is overboard.
He did exactly what the bad, unimaginative journalists who cover anything of importance in this country do. He took access, and milked it. Some of you have been saying how his objective reporting is better than his opinion writing. I agree, because that man’s opinions are so dull, they’re not worth having. (Ooh, the Sopranos is good and coffee keeps me awake. Put it in 50-point type!). I certainly like getting details about the Broncos, rather than assertions. But that’s what any reporter, even in high school is supposed to do. These details happened to be good. And why? Because the McD regime played the access card smartly, all but guaranteeing that the guy would write something favorable to the Broncos.
Don’t get me wrong — I enjoyed the piece. But it wasn’t good reporting. It was exactly the kind of reporting you get from any journalist who’s been captured by his/her source. He conveyed the source’s point of view in precise and minute detail. Since I liked the source, I liked the details. But this is the kind of journalism that’s a net harm, not a net good.
I mean, it’s hard to call this “objective.” The only points of view related were from Broncos mgmt and quarterbacks. The only reason this story even existed is b/c SI wants to sell magazines, and Tebow sells. Every news story, even if you’re writing a church picnic, is subjective, because the reporter bring the unique experiences of her life to the analysis and necessarily prioritizes some details over others. And Peter King gave lots of details on the upside, without any on the downside. Good, fine, I’m all for it since I’m a Broncos fan. But it’s not high-grade journalism.
Thanks for posting the article. I did not mean to be the house contrarian today — that’s not a role I enjoy — but this subject moves me. And I think it’s sad that coverage of the NFL is so sad that the guy who actually talks about throwing mechanics looks like Ben Bradlee. That just shouldn’t be the case.
by Chibronx on Jun 9, 2010 3:45 PM MDT reply actions 5 recs
I believe he reported what he saw.
I see that you are right on most of your points, but can’t a journalist go into a situation, report what he sees, not opine about it, and do a good job? Sure the access slants it. Hell, the subject slants it. Who’s GONNA say anything bad about Tebow? Not many people with facts.
I see what you’re saying, but I don’t see how it applies here, necessarily. This is a type of puff-piece, but it’s informative.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
I guess a John Clayton article would be a better read...
Not everyone can be satisfied all of the time..
Ouch — you got me good on that one. Let me try putting it another way. I loved the article — absolutely loved it. It made me giddy and hopeful, and I read it twice in line at the airport this morning. I’m just quibbling with the idea that it’s particularly excellent journalism. It’s not. It’s the kind of thing a pro like King should be able to do in his sleep. And as a former member, it makes me sad that the state of the profession is such that this article counts as a major coup.
Of course I wouldn’t prefer John Clayton. He’s a case in point. When does the guy ever, ever go in-depth? He just does quick bullet hits on the league. They are by design unable to produce information like this.
Either way, when we’re doing summersaults because a full-time NFL journalist wrote about what it’s like to throw a football and be at practice, it’s a sad state of affairs. So, so sad. Apologies if the rant-y tone of my post got in the way of communicating that straightforward point.
Chibronx
I agree with your point about this being a Tebow article (which its title says it is going to be, so no surprise there), and it is interesting how many of us pulled out an appreciation for the details he conveyed. I was thinking about this last night and realized that while this is the best thing I have read about the Broncos all year, it isn’t written for Broncos fans, or at least, for MHR bronco fans, since most of them completely missed the point of the article! It is hard to say who his audience was, perhaps non-converted Tebow-news followers, and it is odd that it wasn’t us, but not surprising. What I find truly odd is that he took on a particular color when describing the process of the new Broncos organization, and it dominated the article far more than the part where it is about Tebow…
But you point out that he only tapped the Broncos side of the story, and thus wasn’t objective, but I have to ask, what of King’s objectivity? Didn’t he pick and choose what he would include or not? His theme seems to be that Tebow is facing a daunting challenge in which the draft hype and hysteria may end up only being a post-script at best. If he failed in anything it was trying to write a Tebow article when he had something else that he wanted to say. At worst he smuggled in the colorization of the organization. At best he perhaps has written to many MMQBs and simply wasn’t in total control of his faculties.
I suspect you have experience with this (writing non-fiction for publication, not losing control of your faculties), so I think you may be familiar with the following process… You get an idea for a mid-level article, i.e., something between a report on events and purely theoretical, you start to do your research. But when you actually go to write the article, its a jumbled mess, your ability to organize it seems lost, it is like you are fighting with yourself just to focus on it. How often is it because you actually have another article trying to write itself?
I recently completed an article on McDaniels that started just as I have outlined above. I had a vague idea for a mid-range piece, did some preliminary looking around and found that their certainly seemed to be some meat to the idea, so I dove headlong into the research, looking for anything that related to my theory. I scoured well over 100 articles,l had pages and pages of notes and quotes, and I was pissed because it felt like I had lost my filter at a certain point and had too much info that simply wasn’t related to my expected theme, just interesting ‘stuff.’ So I started my outline in hopes of filtering my notes. Painful. It was like a ship without a rudder, no matter how hard I tried to get her steered into the wind, the sou’easter had her. My theme was written at the head of the page clear as day. Why the hell couldn’t I stick to it? I think at this point, King may have forced his article out (or maybe he is more crafty than i give him credit for). Luckily, I had some housepainting that needed to be done, which was a whole lot easier. And then, somewhere between the upstairs window trim and the porch gables, it hit me. Soon I was inside, reworking the idea, with the theme scratched out, just outlining what I had, not what I wanted. I ended up with the exact same subject, totally different theme, and she sailed into port easily after that. I think if I had forced it at the point of struggling with the outline that I could have edited it until it was readable, maybe even flowing. Then an analogy would have hit me and I would have made a lofty comparison to Betelgeuse or something, stretched over the whole piece like a shroud, added a trite, somewhat meaningless title (c’mon Peter, how the hell am I going to find this article in five years???), and then cap it off by struggling to understand why I felt a twinge of shame every time someone brought the article up in the future…
Makes me wonder what King would write if he wasn’t trying to sell a Tebow article??
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 10, 2010 9:25 AM MDT up reply actions 5 recs
What would PK right if he weren’t ordered to pitch a Tebow article. It’s a good question. I don’t think we’ll ever know. And, well, why? It’s because he’s a professional facing regular deadlines for an old-media company trying to sell magazines. The kind of writing process you’re talking about — the kind I go through for everything from professional stuff to my fan posts — is the luxury of people who aren’t enslaved to a weekly publication schedule. As much as anything, I’m bemoaning the purging of the kind of institutional position that lets writers unwind.
Most newspapers used to have staff investigative reporters, or senior reporters at large. Deadlines? None, really. The job was to go and find something, dig, come up with something interesting, and take it from there. I am addicted to the New Yorker because it allows for that kind of writing. Alec Wilkinson could not have written that excellent profile of the hollywood accent coach on a short-term deadline. Sy Hersh wouldn’t be digging up the stuff he digs up for CNN — the 24-hour news cycle, and CNN’s need to stay cozy with the powerful militate against it. I have collections of mid-century sportswriting, and what’s amazing is that they DID contain journalism like what I’ve outlined above. Length, breadth, depth, finely tuned detail, full context and history. That kind of thing is gone. It just is.
I think this is the value of MHR, though. We’re not professionals. We (OK, you), write on our own timelines, and we go where the ideas, as opposed to the bottom line, take us. It is fascinating to think what Peter King would be like as a serious blogger of this sort. I suspect he’d still be one of the boringest guys in the room. But we’ll never know.
Shorter Chibronx: The best journalism and writing is built out from fine detail, and it’s a shame that the institutional purveyors of writing have gone against this.
by Chibronx on Jun 10, 2010 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions 4 recs
Are the writers stifled or have they stopped bringing something to the table?
You don’t have to answer. I don’t think I want to know.
That kind of thing is gone. It just is.
Now you are just trying to make me sad. What would sportswriting have to endure to see a shift back to what it was? Woody mentioned a name, Grantland Rice, a few weeks ago which led to some googling by me, and a thoroughly delightful nine to ten hour evening that sent me to bed with a wistful smile. What if we got that same feeling once a week or more, where you go to check up on your Broncos news, and the article you read makes you pause and really take a moment to just sort of soak everything in.
Maybe nothing can be done from the conglomerate standpoint, so the grassroots effort of blogs and such is the only avenue. You say that MHR has value in not having professionals, but I see that as a detraction as well, in the sense that we can be professional in our demeanor and how we handle our relations, but it doesn’t give us the elite training that could really be useful, the opportunities to apprentice (or whatever it might be called in journalism-dom) under craftsmen. heck, professional editing without an eye towards concepts like SEO is pretty much off the menu as well. If blogging is the future, it is far from being free of its own pitfalls, and I suspect that the speed at which blogging operates could send it into a downward spiral just as quickly as it rose. By far however, my worries for blogging as a bastion of writing and journalistic quality are exacerbated when I see how out of control it seems…unmanaged in so many ways. I think that could reasonably be called a lack of professionalism, and whenever I see that lack addressed, it is usually by bringing in professionals from fields such as money management, or the programming side of things… content still seems to be an undisciplined free for all.
There has to be some kind of hope for the conglomerates. Maybe voices like SI can staff being more localized geographically, as opposed to localized intellectually (such as someone who covers only baseball, etc). Details, as you say. Get to know your subjects, and their contexts, more intimately. That is certainly something that tech has made viable. Which brings us to the final point of your synopsis:
…it’s a shame that the institutional purveyors of writing have gone against this.
They are either pushing an idea, or being pulled along by something, either way, there are obviously obstacles beyond a lack of good ideas… and now I am back to feeling the pity again… fiddlesticks.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jun 10, 2010 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Excellent comment, Jeremy
You say that MHR has value in not having professionals, but I see that as a detraction as well, in the sense that we can be professional in our demeanor and how we handle our relations, but it doesn’t give us the elite training that could really be useful, the opportunities to apprentice (or whatever it might be called in journalism-dom) under craftsmen.
That’s true. There is, as always, an opportunity in this kind of dilemma, though. Right now, I’m mentoring a ew writers from various sites, in one degree or another. While I know that my own writing can improve and I don’t try to impart information that I don’t know, it seems to have been helpful to some folks. There are also several people on this site or who visit here who have professional credentials. While my own background is in technical/professional writing, there are still things that transfer over to this type of work and so I’m happy to share what I do know. Your own work, Jeremy, is also clearly excellent and you have a substantial background, as do some other folks here. Setting up an informal mentoring approach could benefit all, if that becomes of interest.
Gnothi Seauton
by Doc Bear on Jun 10, 2010 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Helped me Doc!
Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.
Well we all look like amateurs when compared to Grantland Rice.
Chibronx has very high expectations for writing as he should as a professional. Even in my field of medicine, writing was much better in the early 20th century than it is now. It has become stale, sterile and stultifying when before there was a sense of wonder and delight combined with the professionalism of science.
The writing in the blogosphere is indeed so disorganized and freeform that it has a sense of precarious danger – chaotic and profane and irresponsible. It could fall to the level of phonic tweeting which would be sad indeed. The written word can be so powerful and illuminating because of the precision of ideas. It seems strange that we are so hungry this time of year for Broncos news that we read King’s article multiple times, yet fail to recognize the relatively superficial observations for what they are.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein
Thanks for turning this into an excellent conversation. Sorry for disappearing — my travel schedule has been nuts.
I should have added that I think the blogger model has immense downsides. Professionalization counts. Getting facts straight is insanely difficult and it doesn’t come naturally, no matter how hard one tries. There is no substitute for taking one’s licks from the editor for something wrong. I honestly don’t see a good way to get around the lack of training there. I will also add that organizing information clearly, using the right blend of showing/telling, fitting the details just right…. that’s a hard process. The writers who do it well apprenticed for years or decades. It’s not a knock on folks in the blogger cohort to say that these skills just can’t be developed the same way outside of daily writing. You wouldn’t expect a quarterback to be excellent without an excruciating training regimen, and the same goes (to a lesser extent) for writers.
I hear why you say in principle about localized new media sites. But the economies of scale necessary to make those work favor large corporations, and large corporations are risk-adverse. ESPN has gone localized, and they instantly become the dullest, loudest presence in any market they’re in. The economics that supported long-form writing have never been good. First it was patronage. Then privilege (it was great to be a Fitzgerald). Then the post-war boom and state support. Now…. well, there’s luck. Or there’s doing what the people with the money to fund you ask. They ask that you be reliable and unthreatening. And thus I present Peter King.
Don’t know how much I’m adding here, but thanks for the thoughtful conversation. It is always enjoyable.
by Chibronx on Jun 11, 2010 5:22 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thank you for a wonderful in depth conversation on investigative reporting.
Where does one now look for the in depth vetted reporting and soul filled intimate writing that enriches us and educates us. I don’t really know.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein
For what it’s worth, Ponderosa, I go to the New Yorker, Harper’s and the New York Review. The latter is pretty academic-y and you should be forewarned that Harper’s often veers towards politics, and does so from the left. But they all have extensive long-form writing in way or another.
I am sure we will all revisit this theme in short time.
There's not much I can say here, Chibronx, but the comment is appreciated nonetheless.
You make some very good points.
"The never-ending search for a truth never told."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jun 10, 2010 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions
My favorite quote from the article
These quarterbacks have to know what McDaniels knows and to see what he sees. Too often last year, when Denver was 20th in scoring and finished 8—8, one or two players would be out of place or run the wrong route. So even if a smart quarterback like Orton knew exactly where he was supposed to throw the pass, he couldn’t complete it because of his teammates’ mistakes.
I have thought highly of Orton. This explains alot about the offense last year. Here’s to looking forward to a better year and finish
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