Come on and Rock Me, Trent Dilfer!

It’s hard to compare it to others, like a pitcher compared with position players in baseball. In that respect I agree somewhat with Rogers. I would like to see more informed analysts breaking down the finer points of QB mechanics and play. There’s a difference between stating the obvious by looking at stats and tape, and projecting a college QBs future at the next level. Even if the guy is fully wrong, it is helpful if it at least seems like they know what they are talking about

A guy like Warren Sapp was a great player for a long time in this league. That doesn’t make his football analysis good. We all need to be careful when generalizing about the MSM. There are guys that have played the game that are good analysts and there are guys that aren’t. There are guys that didn’t play the game and are good and some that aren’t. The key is to try to understand what that particular person’s purpose is. A guy like Sapp or Dukes isn’t on TV to tell us about the finer point of a spread offense or the mechanics of a QB. They’re there for entertainment and to stir the pot. They’re on TV to attract ratings. WHo wants to watch some brilliant stats guy with no personallity or who doesn’t have a big mouth. This may make people mad but why is a guy like Shannon Sharp on TV? Half the time nobody can understand what he’s saying. He’s there for entertainment not insight.

So before we critisize the MSM and lump everyone together, it’s important to understand what that persons jub truly is.

How intelligent they are in their analysis of it, period. There are people who know far more than former players, who weren’t players themselves. There are also idiotic non-players. There are non player analysts who are sometimes astute, but just as often don’t know what they’re talking about (coughJohnClaytoncough). Steve Young was one of the great QBs, and sometimes his QB analysis is dead on, but just as often his own ego gets in the way and he is dead wrong. As TDot says we shouldn’t lump everyone together. And Josh McDaniels, ahemBrandon, did experience playing football at least, enough to get a feel for many aspects of the game. But then it’s what someone’s brain is like as far as how they use that knowledge, analyze it and then articulate it. The ability to do all that is unfortunately rare and especially rare among commentators, whether former players or not.

You can bet Marshall’s comment was in response to McD calling him out publically on the injury. Marshall comment was a counterpunch, just like Aaron Rodgers. I think it’s A-okay to rip on a guy that ripped on you first. Professional, not really, but understandable and enjoyable…. Absolutely. That Marshall quote was all about setting up his offseason plan. He wasn’t going to let the Broncos hold a major injury (that caused him to miss zero games) over his head for a 2nd offseason.

Marshall had much better counsel during 2009 than he did in 2008 because he played the obtaining of a new contract beautifully after his preseason hissy fit woke him up to the fact he’d been killing his own cause. At this point, I’m sure Vincent Jackson, Miles Austin and Andre Johnson are like “WTF” when they see how much Marshall is getting in Miami as a guy entering this offseason as a RFA.

Marshall is the very best reason why Elvis will have a long term deal in Denver before the 2010 season. No way can Bowlen let two big talents like Cutler and Marshall leave Denver and walk into massive new deals elsewhere and not pay up for the one big fish that didn’t get away/escape/get traded/whatever. If Marshall and Cutler gun their way out of town into mega deals and Elvis doesn’t get paid, every good to great Bronco on the roster will know what they need to do to get the deal they desire/deserve. Clady, Ryan Harris and Elvis are very keen to see how this plays out.

but I think it might just be that I’m feeling disagreeable.

You’ve written a whole article on Rodgers being ‘dead wrong’ on his views of analysts that he respects, and why he respects them, which is something entirely subjective. You can 100% disagree with his position, but at some level there has to be some grain of truth to what he is saying, and here is why.

After busting your behind to reach the top 10 in your position in life, be it sports, politics, rocket science or romance languages, at some point you are going to dismiss the pundits & entertainers who don’t completely understand exactly what it is that you do, and who are (mostly) just paid to entertain, and simply look for validation from your peers.

Eddie Vedder & Sean Penn may have opinions on how Brandon Marshall should run his routes, on whether Albert Haynesworth should show up for OTAs, or if Jamarcus Russell is fat.

Truthfully, however, Brandon and Albert aren’t going to care if Spicoli and the guy who is famous because Andrew Wood overdosed have opinions on their game, nor should they. And anyone can see just by looking that we should use Jamarcus to plug that leaking hole in the Gulf of Mexico.

I really enjoyed his (Rodgers) honesty, personally. After listening to the interview he gave, in which he was expressing his opinion that Tony Kornheiser was worse than Dennis Miller on MNF (and why) I couldn’t find anything controversial about what he said or why he said it. In fact, Rodgers was really mostly just being entertaining and having some fun.

I guess the only point I want to make is that when smart people are saying smart things, smart people listen. The rest of the time ?

Shut up and sing : )

• Disclaimer *
  I love the music of Pearl Jam and really enjoyed Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

Players Aaron Rodgers and former-Bronco Brandon Marshall need to come back to reality.

Agreed. And so do fans. It’s first and foremost an entertainment business, and — large flashing sign — No Talking Head Cares Enough to Hate Your Team. I had to learn this as a child, watching Howard Cosell. I honestly thought he had it out for the Broncos and couldn’t stand him for it. Now looking back, I know he was much too busy drinking in the booth and fighting with Roone Arledge (Roone!) to care to hate the Broncos. He was just highly opinionated and the best ever. I miss him and his crazy toupee. In fact, come to think of it, I started liking him while reading his book, “I Never Played the Game”. I guess this topic goes back a ways…

Paige is very dismissive of bloggers and the same logic goes to him. I find the analysis here and at Broncotalk (and at Denver Stiffs and Purple Row for that matter) as legit as the opinion writer’s take on the Denver Post. The only difference in quality derives from the access the Post gets to the coaches, players and execs.

Just might as well go on to the next article that feeds me information or facts to really digest. Lashing back is a sign of weakness and insecurity and should be overlooked as such? I feel bad when somebody says something good about me and have to search for their motives, maybe Aaron Rodgers should show these critics on the field of play, because for the life of me, I haven’t seen him win a SB yet…Neither has Marshall as far as that is concerned and he sure as hell didn’t help the Broncos cause last year with HIS own agenda and distractions…

Rodgers, like you said, is a top 5 quarterback, and while he did drop a bit in the draft, he was still a high pick. But like a lot of great players, who need a reason to stay motivated, he’s trying to find a reason to prove everyone wrong. Jerry Rice is quoted as saying in 1994 “Everyone is saying that I’m slipping, and my mission is to prove them wrong. People are saying Michael Irvin is now the best receiver in football, or Sterling Sharpe, or Andre Rison.” Obviously no body was saying that, but he made himself think that so he could remain motivated. While I do think Rodger’s maybe isn’t going about it the right way, but really, this isn’t that big a deal.

And like TJ came away less then impressed with Aaron Rodgers. He crossed me as standoffish on every comment that was made of him.

The crazy thing is as a QB you would expect him to have thicker skin and not get caught up in who said what scenarios.

Here, Here!

But in the meantime…I agree with your article, but maybe this is just the kind of thing that drives guys like Rodgers (not being a pro athlete myself, I don’t know). But when you reach the top of your profession, like he has, it might be hard at times to find that intense (Did you hear about the FIRE at the circus? It was IN-Tents…get it, intense…wah wah wah…) burning desire to beat everyone around you. The guy that said “he’s not THAT good” becomes fuel to keep the fire burning when everyone around you is praising your success. I don’t know that it is anything more than that…

Not sure how we got here, but I really like PJ’s latest album “Backspacer” – I had read that it was the first ablum Eddie had written since VS. (or was it Vitalogy?).

I am looking forward to pre-season “Stat’s don’t lie” – or even Training camp “stats”…I need ‘em man, ya know….bad…stats…stats…stats!…need football stats…please help…methadone won’t work for this and neither will the World Cup from South Aftrica……

In that spirit, I wish to add: Only those who have actually served as president of the United States truly knows and understands what the job entails. Consequently, the next presidential election should be limited to 5 voters i.e. Carter, Busch I, Clinton, Busch II and Obama

I suspect Rodgers was essentially trying to say ‘If you’re gonna talk, know what you’re talking about."

And if you don’t know what you’re talking about, well then perhaps the reason is because you don’t know the position or don’t know the game well enough.

But that’s just my interpretation. Maybe he did mean to say that only QB’s should talk about QB’s, but he didn’t specifically say that. There’s a possibility Rodgers’ emotions about the topic kept him from clearly delineating his meaning. That happens to everyone.

People can rip on Kiper because they don’t agree with him but he has pretty decent insight into things most of the time, whether he’s played or not. But there are people out there who talk a good game and are way off base every time they open their mouths.

Some have played the game and some haven’t. God knows just because you played the game doesn’t mean your observations on the sport are going to be helpful to anyone (Jamie Dukes).

But unfortunately, getting an analyst gig on television tends to have as much to do with your cachet or personality as it does with your ability to communicate. I guess it just comes with the package.

But I know that if I were a QB and heard someone ripping on my technique in a way that suggested they had no idea what they were talking about, I’d be ticked off too.

After I’ve put in thousands of hours of practice and dedication, you better know what you’re talking about before you tell me how to do my job.

and for prompting a great discussion.

Appreciated it, TJ

I am not saying this is exactly what Rodgers was getting at but what you have highlighted TJ is an interesting point which transcends all sports.

My point is that just because you were a good player in a certain position it does not mean that you automatically can offer analysis on that position or identify talent in that position.

If someone has spent enough time watching a sport and reasons their argument well their view should be accepted as a valid opinion because it is that, a well researched valid opinion.

I think Rodgers has the right to tell those people they were wrong as the opinion was made about him and he has a right to defend himself against that. Where I feel he is wrong, if this is what he was aiming at, was to criticise someone for offering an opinion on a different position to their own. If that opinion is based on research and comparison then that person is entitled to make that point. There maybe some DTs who can offer a more reasoned evaluation of talent and analyse better on a QB than some ex QBs.

My point is that just because you were a good player in a certain position it does not mean that you automatically can offer analysis on that position or identify talent in that position.

Case in point: I have always regarded Steve Young with a great deal of respect. That is until he became a commentater.

Interesting post and following comments. On one side I kind of agree with Rodgers, but, it is very subjective. Ex-players, regardless of position are just trying to make a buck at the end of the day. To do that I think they sometimes engage their mouth and sounding like they are clueless, before the brain actually dissects what they are truely seeing giving them a cleaner picture.

Personnally I think Steve Young should have stayed out of the commentator business and stuck to selling Toyota’s. Dilfer is hot and cold, but usually he at least attempts to use his head.

We are human beings with the ability to reason, imagine, and relate to one another. We don’t always have to walk a mile in somebody’s shoes to understand them. We evaluate the President of the United States every four years but how many of us have ever been President?

People who have experienced something can sometimes offer a unique perspective but not necessarily a better perspective.

It seems to follow that his mindset would be, if you were never an NFL QB, how could you ever coach one? McCarth? Shanahan? Walsh? McDaniels? McDaniels Sr? Bums, all of ya!

After the media circus last year, I started to pay attention to what the media says and differentiate it between entertainment, opinion, or fact. It has been surprising to find out that some of these people that I love to mute the TV on, can actually spout some truth every once in awhile. I’ve never had much of a problem with Kiper. He talks like he does the filmwork. I’ve never actually seen what his results are, but I do get a laugh at him on draft day when one of his prospects falls way down the board. That said, predicting the draft is virtually impossible as I have learned in the last 2 Draftivus.’ LOL. I do think that Kiper knows what he is talking about as far as the College kids, and he is helpful when a lot of us can’t do the film study. The big hair and the rest are all entertainment though.

Today I was driving in West Denver and I saw a Raiders fan who had bought the larger white clingy window sticker with the Raiders guy on it and above it another sticker that said “Oakland Raiders”. At first glance you dismiss it because you often don’t pay attention to window stickers, this fan was extra special as we have come to know and love from our time rooting against them. This person apparently not having any common sense at all decided to put the window sticker on the inner window so it reads backwards from the outside, this apparently was an above average Raiders fan as they allegedly have a driver’s license… Sorry the build up was so long but I was laughing my ass off when I saw this.

Here’s a video and audio bit of him talking about Orton: Video and audio.

I understand the frustration of the NFL players when people talk smack about them without a clue as to what they are doing or why. I don’t blame them at all. However – journalists often aren’t trained in football, often not trained in politics, in criminal justice, etc. It’s their job to do enough research to have their opinions match the situations that come up. Frankly, some of them do (Jaws) and many of them don’t. How much is this a problem?

We don’t ask our political journalists to hold public office. We don’t expect journalists who report on science to obtain a Ph.D in the field. In the same vein, we don’t expect all sports journalists to have played football. The fact is, a journalist is there to record, report, and (hopefully) to develop an understanding of the field they are in. Sadly, that last part has increasingly been ignored in favor of a media-based brand of ’Got ya". Never mind the facts – we have a 24 hour news cycle and we need to fill it somehow.

What I do see as a problem is the lack of interest that many sports journalists pay to learning and understanding the game. I tend to suspect that filling more than half of NFL Live each day with one story – usually Favre’s endless journey, sometimes some other player who is in the spotlight. It’s entertainment sports (well, for some people. I turn it off and spin through it, looking for something that I’m actually interested in). It’s not journalism. There’s no reason that a sports reporter can’t learn the game. No, it’s not the same as playing it, but there are plenty who did play it (Emmitt Smith – and please note, my name is spelled differently :D), Jamie Dukes, etc) who can’t analyze a zone blitz or finish a coherent sentence.

Mastermind said it best:

I suspect Rodgers was essentially trying to say ‘If you’re gonna talk, know what you’re talking about."

Being also a Knicks fan I use Isiah Thomas as a example, check this article if youve got a chance it makes a great read about a awsome basket ball player but a pretty average administrator.
ESPN

or maybe just the ones that say negative things about him.