The Fan Bases Of The AFC West
This is the most confusing time of year. On one hand, it's the time for optimism. It starts with the NFL Draft. On Draft day, millions of football fans wait to see what new toys are going to be on their teams. Every year, there are players who spark lingo such as "franchise player" or "game changer". During OTA's and Training Camp, there is nothing but positive vibes. "Progression", "potential", and "improving" are very common words during this time of year. However, there is a dark side to this time of the year.
Since there are a lot of positive vibes going out, it's easy to get overly optimistic. When there are reports of wide receivers making one handed catches in double coverage during OTA's, it's hard not to picture them doing that during the season. It's good to be positive. Being positive only makes Training Camp and the Pre-Season that much more enjoyable. However, being overly positive/unrealistic is just setting yourself up for failure and makes you look dumb on blogs like this.
So I decided to do an experiment. I wanted to see how each AFC West fan base was feeling going into Training Camp and Pre-Season. So I did posts on the SB Nation blogs: Bolts From The Blue and Silver And Black Pride. I got the opinion of several Chiefs fans in the comment section of a couple of their posts. I wanted to know their opinions on the questions that were being asked about their teams. I wanted to know what they felt positive about, and what they were nervous about in the near future. It was a fun experiment. So without further ado, here is the state of the AFC West through the eyes of the fans
To be honest, I was not looking forward to going over to Silver and Black Pride. I went over there a couple of times before, and they weren't pleasant experiences. I was cursed at for defending a fellow MHRer. I was called a troll and many other things that made xbox live look like heaven. So when I posted my article, I expected much of the same.
I got the exact opposite. My article ended up with almost 30 comments of in depth analysis of the Raiders through the eyes of their fans. There was one person who didn't accept me (that's putting it nicely) but the majority of them gave some great responses. After reading all of the comments, here is what I have concluded:
Things Raider Nation Is Optimistic About
Jason Campbell- This was on almost every single comment. Raider fans are thrilled to be rid of Jabba-the-Russel. Can anyone blame them? After 3 years of horrendous play, the Raider fans were done with Russel and were ready for someone new. They were prepared to go forward with Gradkowski but many acknowledged he wasn't that good. He only seemed good last year because Jamarcus was so bad. When Campbell was picked up on the 3rd day of the draft, the Raider fans rejoiced. They see Campbell as the first real signal caller on the team in 3 years. He undoubtedly makes the offense better. A few were particularly happy that the Raiders got Campbell since he utilized his tight ends very effectively in Washington. They hope that Campbell will make Zach Miller a pro bowl TE.
Defense as a whole- Especially the D-Line. They are thrilled with the additions of Lamar Houston and Mario Henderson. Add on Richard Seymour's pass rush abilities and they believe their d-line will be pretty effective. They have some pass rush depth in Groves, Shaughnessy, and Richardson. Many feel that Rolando McClain is going to be the next great linebacker. They are happy with their safeties Branch, Mitchell, and Huff. Overall, they are most excited about their defense. They are very happy with the additions to the front 7. Only real questions are with the OLB's. With speculation they are going to throw some 3-4 looks, there is some confusion on how the OLB's will perform. Raider Nation thinks there defense is going to be drastically improved.
Michael Bush- Raider fans believe Bush is about to be unleashed and he is going to wreak havoc all over the AFC West. There is a lot of excitement about Bush in the Black Hole.
Bush has been badly under/mis-used by Cable, but has been productive, although he sometimes has trouble with the handle. -Silver and Black Pride user "signcut"
Almost everyone on S&BP think that Bush is going to have a huge season. The only thing stopping him is the thing they are most pessimistic about. Speaking of which...
Things Raider Nation Is Pessimistic About
Offensive Line- This is by far the thing they are most pessimistic about. They like the additions of Bruce Campbell and Jared Veldheer. However, they are not expecting much from them in their rookie seasons. In fact, they aren't expecting much from the whole line. They aren't really happy with any player on their o-line.
Too many questions here, this is still by far our biggest area of concern until I am proven otherwise but on field production. Simply put this unit will determine if we have another 10 loss season. Silver and Black Pride user "RAIDERSNOMERCY"
This is the key to their season. The line is bad. Most Raider fans just hope that the line doesn't digress. They hope they play just as good as last year and pray they improve in any aspect.
2nd Cornerback
Nmandi is arguably the best corner in the AFC West. The whole AFC West knows he is a force to be reckoned with. The problem is that there is almost nothing after him. They know that if Nmandi goes down, their pass defense is going to be terrible. Their second cornerback is Chris Johnson. He played okay last year, but they need him to step up if the defense is going to be great. After Chris is pretty much nothing. They are hoping that Nmandi continues to be healthy and great and that Chris steps up.
Wide Receivers
Raider Nation is not happy with DHB. They acknowledge that he was terrible last year. Plain terrible. With that being said, they are encouraged by the reports from OTA's. However, many of them are taking the "I'll believe it when I see it" approach. They are optimistic about Schilens' potential, but they need him to stay healthy. Everyone who commented on him talked about his problems with staying healthy. They like Higgins, but acknowledge he has stuff to improve on(route running, drops). The general consensus is that their wide receivers are young. They need time to hone their skills. They hope that they can be effective enough to make the playoffs.
General Raider Nation Consensus: The Raiders are going to be much improved. A few of the people believe that Raiders' defense could be a top 10 unit. The thing that is stopping the Raiders from a playoff appearance is the offensive line. It is pretty bad. If the offensive line can keep it together then most see them as an 8-8/9-7 team. If not, well the Pats will be thankful.
Sadly, there weren't that many replies from BFTB. They are a relatively new blog, but I was hoping for more responses. Of the responses I did get, I was pretty surprised by the responses.
Things Bolt Fans Are Most About
Phillip Rivers- Why is Phillip Rivers on here? There isn't anything new about him. Well the reason he is on here is because the fans are so confident in him that they don't care about Vincent Jackson's likely 10 game leave. In Rivers they trust, and they trust in him a lot. They know Vincent is talented, but they believe Rivers, the scheming, and the other receivers are enough to still be dominant. I could not find one person who was significantly worried about Vincent Jackson's situation.
Ryan Matthews- Charger fans were clearly tired of LT. Don't get me wrong, they love him and wished he could have been a Charger for life. However, they are so relieved to finally get a new, young running back who is full of potential. Every Charger fan I talk to believes Matthews is easily going to be OROY. They are a little worried about his ability to stay healthy, but there excitement over his potential overshadows their small fear.
Cam Thomas- The Chargers aren't going to be missing Jamal Williams. They are very excited about Cam Thomas being their new nose tackle. Cam is entering his rookie year with high expectations from pretty much every Charger fan. He is going to be the center of their d-line. There is plenty of uncertainty among their d-line, but Cam is their bright spot.
Things Bolt Fans Are Pessimistic About
Marcus McNeil- Of the 2 potential holdouts, McNeil is the one that Charger fans are scared of most. But they aren't terribly scared of losing him either. McNeil is a pretty good left tackle. They are a little afraid that losing him will result in a drop off in the passing game. They believe their offense won't suffer tremendously, but losing McNeil makes some of them nervous.
D-Line- This is arguably their biggest question.
Huge question-mark. It could be anything from weak to dominant, depending on how the young guys turn out. We have a lot of guys we know to be just-barely-good-enough: Cesaire, Boone, Bingham and Garay. We have one bona-fide starter (Castillo), with injury concerns. But there are a few guys with as-yet untapped potential on the roster: Nwagbuo, Thomas, Martin, Johnson. - Bolts From The Blue user "Neoplatonist Bolthead"
I think this is a fair assessment. Their d-line is full of questions. Castillo is the only good player, but he has injury issues. The rest of the guys are well mediocre enough to allow them to win.
Antonio Gates injury- Antonio Gates is one of the primary reasons why Bolt fans aren't scared of losing Jackson. Gates is a huge threat and a prolific part of their offense. As long as they have Gates to wreak havoc, they aren't that scared of losing Vincent. However, the problem is that Gates has foot problems. If they lose him, they are in for a rough ride. If he stays healthy, they should be good.
General Bolt Fan Consensus
All is good in Charger land. The losses of Vincent Jackson and Marcus McNeil won't be bad enough to keep them from winning the AFC West. Record? 11-5
Let me start off by saying I am not a Chiefs fan. I am a die hard Bronco fan and will never ever root for the Chiefs over the Broncos. With that being said, I really like Arrowhead Pride. I like the people, I like the tone, and I like the constant information. I had some really good, intellectual conversations with some of the guys over there. AP is a good place with some really good people. Anyway, I didn't make a fanpost on AP like I did on the other SB Nation blogs. If I had, I probably would have gotten around 80 responses. Instead, I posted a couple comments and plenty of people responded. So here is what I have found out
Things Chiefs Fans Are Most Optimistic About
Dexter McCluster- This is arguably the one thing they are most excited about going into 2010. Many believe Dexter is going to bring a whole new dimension to the Kansas City offense. They see him as a "Percy Harvin" type of player. They see him having a similar impact. His speed, elusiveness, and promising reports from OTA's have Chiefs fans watering from the mouth. They don't care about his size (5 ft 8, 165 lbs). They point to DeSean Jackson and Steve Smith of the Panthers. It's not just his Special Teams potential that they are excited about. They believe that McCluster is going to be a real force as a slot receiver. They see a real game changer in this kid.
Jamaal Charles- Jamaal Charles is the man in Kansas City and everyone knows it. After having a fantastic 4 game stretch to end the season, fans are ready to see what he can do with a whole season. While the offensive line didn't get drastically better, they added some depth and Chiefs fans are ready to let Charles loose. With the help of Thomas Jones, the Chiefs have a very solid running back core.
Secondary- What do you get when you combine Brandon Flowers, Brandon Carr, and Eric Berry? A secondary that Chiefs fans think is one of the best in the league. Everyone believes that Flowers is a shut down corner who will be a pro bowler in the near future. Carr is a solid # 2 and Berry is well Berry. They believe they are one of the best and the only thing that could derail their pass defense is injuries.
Things Chiefs Fans Are Most Pessimistic About
D-Line- This is the one thing that fans are most pessimistic about by far. It's really not even close. Many Chiefs fans believe their team is a 8-8 team at least. If the D-line steps it up, they could make the playoffs. The Chiefs D-line is headlined by 2 1st round draft picks who haven't performed well yet. Those players are Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey. The D-line is going to be a big problem for KC if they don't perform better.
The defensive front seven is the weakest link. I’m not sure what anyone expects there but I think the realists here on AP will just be holding our breath and praying it works. They should be better with Crennel and another year under their belt and its way too early to write off dorsey or jackson yet but its a wait and see for the defense. Arrowhead Pride user "GenericBrand"
Wide Receivers- This isn't an area of concern, it's an area of question marks according to KC fans. Dwayne Bowe and Chris Chambers are arguably the only good receivers on the team.
Bowe has the physical tools to turn it around its just more of a mental thing for him. Arrowhead Pride user "GenericBrand"
They hope Chris Chambers keeps up his production from last season. However, he is turning 32 in August. In the last 6 years, the most passes he has caught was 45 in 09. KC likes McCluster and TE Tony Moeaki, but both are rookies and there is no guarantee they will be able to produce any significant amount.
O-Line- KC fans won't like this up here. Many of them insisted the o-line is much better then last season, but I can't help but question that. This off season, they have signed Ryan Lilja and Casey Weigmann. They also drafted Jon Asamoah. They believe that those 3 are enough to improve their offensive line. A couple of other Chiefs fans not on AP told me they are still worried about the o-line. They are taking the wait and see approach.
General Chiefs Fan Consensus- The Chiefs are a much improved team. Bringing in Charlie Weis will bolster the offense. The Chief's great secondary will overshadow the porous defensive line. The Chiefs aren't quite ready to make the playoffs, but they could very well finish 2nd. Record? 8-8
I saved the best for last. What is there to say about the Denver Broncos? I don't know that much about them, but I've talked to 2 or 3 people about them and this is what I have found.
Things Bronco Country Is Optimistic About
D-Line- Last year, the D-Line was terrible. They were the main reason our defense collapsed in the later parts of the year. So on the first day of free agency, Josh McD began talking with and eventually signed Justin Bannan, Jamal Williams, and Jarvis Green. These 3 players are all solid veterans who will drastically improve our d-line. Jamal Williams is arguably the most important of them all. Jamal will be tasked with playing the nose position. Despite being 34, Jamal is still one of the best 3-4 nose tackles in the league. If he stays healthy, his impact against the run will be seen in HD all season long.
Wide Receivers- We lose Brandon Marshall. We gain Demayrius Thomas, Eric Decker, and are beginning to see Matthew Willis, Brandon Lloyd, and Kenny McKinley break out of their shells. Denver fans aren't mourning the loss of Marshall at all. Instead, Bronco Country is looking its chops waiting for all of these to put on some pads and play in TC. Marshall was a beast for us the past 3 years, but he was undeniably forced the ball consistently. Josh is looking to make his offense New Orleans Saintesque. Solid receivers all around, but no # 1. It seemed to work for the Saints last year, and I would bet that it will work for Denver too.
Perrish Cox- In a couple of years, people will look back and say, "I can't believe Denver picked up Perrish Cox in the 5th round. That guy is a beast." Cox is just a rookie, but he is already progressing up the depth chart and taking 1st team reps. He has lock down corner potential. Bronco fans were beginning to worry who would take over for Champ, but their minds seem to be a little bit more at ease.
Things Bronco Country Is Pessimistic About
Offensive Line- Thanks a lot Ryan Clady. Broncoholics were having a nice, relaxing summer when you decided to tear your patellar tendon. Now, the Bronco fans are worried about how the o-line is going to do. With RT Ryan Harris coming back from an injury, Clady was the one bright spot for our o-line this summer. Ryan ruined it. Now there are a whole bunch of questions going into TC.
Linebacker Depth- Denver has the reigning sack champion: Elvis Dumervil. Behind him...well a bunch of questions. Robert Ayers was receiving rave reviews headed into OTA's, but a behind the scene incident caused Ayers to miss 2 OTA practices. Ayers is supposed to be the opposite starting LB. Behind both of them are a bunch of unproven players who can't be relied on for a permanent position. So Please Elvis stay healthy!
Coaches Play Calling- This ones for you McGeorge. This has been brought up a couple times around MHR. It is something that MHRers aren't pessimistic about, but they do have questions. Last season, I was about to toss my size 13 shoe if I saw another bubble screen. With Marshall out of the picture, will McD be able to call more efficient plays with the personnel that he has selected? We shall see.
General Bronco Fan Consensus- Last season, the defense was great in the first 6 games. They faded towards the end of the season. This off season, Denver was able to bolster their defense even more by improving their defensive line. The offense looks to be more well rounded and they have a real chance at making the playoffs and winning the AFC West. Record? 9-7.
My Opinion On The Whole AFC West
The AFC West should be interesting. There are a lot of questions that need answering before the season starts. Will San Diego have two crucial holdouts? Will Ryan Clady and Ryan Harris return to the Denver o-line? Will the Chiefs have enough talent in their d-line? Will Oakland's offense become more complete with Jason Campbell? These are all questions that need answering and there are a ton more. I think the final records look something like this: Raiders: 6-10 Kansas City: 7-9 Denver: 8-8 San Diego: 10-6.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Thanks MakeCents!
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Great post. Really nice work, thank you!
by RalphW on Jul 1, 2010 6:56 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
Thanks I appreciate it!
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
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Good Stuff
When things are slow here on MHR, I like to read through the other SB Nation sites and I agree with your assessment of the other AFC West blogs. I especially agree with your thoughts on Arrowhead Pride. There are some good people over there. It’s to bad for them that they have such a terrible team and will always aspire to be more like Denver. :)
I’m not sure that everyone here thinks McDaniels’ play calling is something to be pessimistic about. From everything I hear, McD’s got a thick play book that requires both intelligent players and more than one year in the system to fully understand. I think Josh was doing what he could, with what he had. I also think that Josh was not showing all his cards in his first year. He knew he wasn’t Super Bowl bound, so why pull out all the stops? I’m optimistic that we’ll see more variety this year.
by troycdunn on Jul 1, 2010 7:17 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Agreed to an extent
But I expended a lot of energy screaming at the tv when yet ANOTHER run up the gut got stuffed during the fade last season. At some point, it was maddening seeing more runs up the middle, when we all knew it was NOT working. However, it’s been stated (well and often) that part of the problem was just not having the right personnel to run the plays correctly. But for me, that begs the question….why keep getting Knowshon killed up the gut when we knew the interior O-line could not protect him? That’s the only thing about the play-calling that really baffled me…..
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
by ncm42 on Jul 1, 2010 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Sometimes...
Sometimes you have to stick to the run, even if it’s not working, to make the defense commit to the run.
I believe it was Jeremy that mentioned a similar thing recently.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 1, 2010 7:21 PM MDT up reply actions
There's sticking to the run
And there’s beating your head against a brick wall. If you’re getting killed up the middle every time, there’s nothing wrong with trying the outside, misdirections, etc. If for no other reason, just to not get your young first round back killed while the O-line is still adjusting to the new scheme.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
Agree..McD made comments last year as to what he saw possible.
BTW I think we may see MANY bubble screens with DMT and Royal.
Nice post.
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
thanks boydy
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Good post BTID... er... Kyle... er, um... I mean Nick.
I couldn’t agree more. AP is a great site. My first stop when I get online is MHR and my second (9 times out of 10) is AP. They are running like 7 or 8 stories a day over there and I don’t know how they do it. If j-man gives it a thumbs up then I guess that’s all the proof I need.
Anyways, I really love how you approached this post. I noticed your questions on the other sites and thought it was really cool how you polled the contributors at the different AFC West sites. Good stuff, man.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
haha thanks troy
I like a lot of the people over there on AP, but there is definitely some kool aid drinking going on over there. But there is also kool aid drinking going on over here too. Anyway, I’m glad you liked the post!
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Respectable and respectFUL stuff
I appreciate the efforts Nick, this is a great idea. It would be nice to do something like this on a regular basis…. I suppose expecting such thorough and objective responses once the season starts would be asking too much.
But it is very reassuring to see the responses you got, and the attitudes portrayed by many of Our opposition’s fan bases. I think I’ll join Arrowhead Pride just to be able to Rec stuff that deserves it, because I’ve seen a lot over there that is more than worthy.
That's quite a long handle there, G Funk. - That's what she said.
First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Jul 1, 2010 7:34 AM MDT reply actions
Thanks Pearl
There is definitely some really good stuff over there. The people over there are pretty cool. They are welcoming as long as you don’t try to start anything aka be a troll.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Really enjoyed reading your post, thank you
I am not just optimistic about Perrish Cox i am really optimistic about the defence as a whole, there is a great secondary and a much improved D line with a year older Ayers to contribute. I am also looking forward to see how agressive the D will be under Wink.
The one thing that struck me is that the Chargers, for a team that has been close to the big one for a few seasons, seem to be relying on big roles from two rookies (Matthews and Thomas) and that maybe my assessment that they are odds on to win the AFC West may well have to be reconsidered.
I think this year the division is as open as it has been for a long time and we could well be looking at playing an extra fixture or two this season.
Next stop for me though is to pop over to Arrowhead Pride and have a look around and possibly lay off the kool aid for a while!
"The Holy Writ of Gloucester Rugby Club demands: first, that the forwards shall win the ball; second, that the forwards shall keep the ball; and third, the backs shall buy the beer." - Doug Ibbotson
Remember, the Chargers already have big money to only a few players.
I think AJ is value aware right now. No money to RFA’s and they signed no FA’s.
The one thing that struck me is that the Chargers, for a team that has been close to the big one for a few seasons, seem to be relying on big roles from two rookies (Matthews and Thomas)
Optimistic? Yes. Reliant? No.
The thing with Mathews is, he doesn’t really have much to live up to as of late. I mean is there really all THAT much pressure on him to average a poultry 3.3 YPC this year, or run for say, 750 yards? Not really. I think he’s feeling pretty confident that he will be able have as productive a year as LT had in 2009, if not better. Charger fan’s aren’t relying on him to be spectacular. River’s on the other hand is an entirely different story.
With Cam Thomas, Charger fan’s are very optimistic that he might just be the big space eater we need to fill the void that was missing last year after Jamaal went down. But if he doesn’t pan out we should be able to make some adjustments on the D-line like we did last year. Last year we had to bring in a few extra FA D-lineman (Boone, Johnson, Scott, Nwagbuo), and implement a platoon system (rotation of guys) on the D-line. We also showed a lot of 4-3 looks to compensate for not having a prototypical 3-4 NT. From what I’ve seen, most Charger fans are really hopeful that Cam will pan out, but not reliant.
Please don't read my signature.
by SoCalBoltFan on Jul 1, 2010 12:59 PM MDT up reply actions
good points
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 1, 2010 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions
very fair points SoCalBoltFan thank you for your response
I suppose i was just surprised to see two rookies on the list (and this is a response to Trinidad Jack as well). The Broncos are rebuilding and I expect them to be more excited about draft picks than a team who has been thereabouts for a while.
But if there are guys that you draft and you are excited about them I suppose it doesnt make any difference if you are the defending champs or you finished dead last.
"The Holy Writ of Gloucester Rugby Club demands: first, that the forwards shall win the ball; second, that the forwards shall keep the ball; and third, the backs shall buy the beer." - Doug Ibbotson
A poultry amount?
I mean is there really all THAT much pressure on him to average a poultry 3.3 YPC this year, or run for say, 750 yards?
What’s the matter with that team – chicken? (jk, of course)
Gnothi Seauton
by Doc Bear on Jul 2, 2010 10:44 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hahaha.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 3, 2010 2:57 PM MDT up reply actions
I think we're going to be relying heavily on some rookies too.
Aren’t we going to need them to come through at guard and especially center. I’m not saying they can’t do it. I’m just saying when I think about the Denver Broncos aand the center position always think about all those wiley vetrans who’ve seen every trick in the book that we’ve usually had snapping the ball.
If this be Hell, let us make the most of it!
by Trinidad Jack on Jul 1, 2010 3:11 PM MDT up reply actions
thanks steve
I’m optimistic about our defense too. I just hope Ayers works out. I really like how our defense is getting excited for TC. Wink’s attacking philosophy seems exciting. I’m just afraid the defense will kill our offense during TC!
Chargers definitely are rolling the dice with Matthews and Thomas. If Matthews busts, there offense is going to struggle.
You can visit AP, but don’t forget where home is :)
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Excellent preseason pulse analysis!
From the analysis you posted about the Chargers, I have to say they are the drinkers of said kool-aid…..doesn’t matter if Jackson is gone? Yeah right. Mathews can instantly replace a perennial Pro Bowler? Yeah right. River’s blindside protection doesn’t matter? Yeah right.
It seems as though they believe that Rivers can win the AFC West single-handedly. I think that’s bunk. He’s good (as much as it pains me to say that), but not that good.
Anyhow. Great work and I’m glad you posted it for us!
Future 2010 MHR Fantasy Football Champion! ;)
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
+1 They're in denial
It’s like us saying Marshall and Clady being out for ten games don’t matter. They do. Lucky for us, though, we’ll have clady back, and we were able to draft a couple replacements for Marshall. They didn’t get that opportunity.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
thanks Broncotodd
yeah Chargers are good, but I don’t think they are good enough to play through all those things you mentioned. Matthews is still a rookie and they need to remember that. If he gets hurt early, they are in trouble. We could win the division, but I put Chargers as 1st because until we beat them, they are # 1.
Glad you liked the post! It’s my pleasure.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
As a Bronco fan living in KC
Many Chief fan’s are great people, but the team that gets under their skin the most is our beloved Broncos.
It has been fascinating to watch both teams make the transition to a New England type system. The mantra’s have been the same, but last year they were behind the curve a bit. They hired front office and coaching staff late, fired their OC just before the season started, but then finished well down the last few games of the season.
Just like in Denver the feeling is that in the second year everyone is settled into the system and the right type of player are in place.
There is another area of Chief concern that is clouded by the cool-aid is at QB. There is a nervousness that Matt Cassel may just be an average at best QB and Brodie Croyle is an injury prone backup.
Nice work. Looking forward to being at TC August 2.
by DBinKC on Jul 1, 2010 7:54 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Chiefs fans really don't like the Broncos
more so then anyone else. It will be interesting to see how they pull all there stuff together.
Chiefs definitely have some question marks.
I can’t wait till TC!
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Dolts Fans are Drinking Something Way More Potent Than Kool-Aid
Let me get this straight. Their biggest concern is (rightly) the D-line. And their #3 reason for optimism is a rookie fifth-round nose tackle with motivation issues. Maybe I missed an awesome YouTube video of the guy juggling blocking sleds or something.
by Chibronx on Jul 1, 2010 7:56 AM MDT reply actions 5 recs
I agree
The Bolts fans assume that the division is theirs for the taking. All they have to do is show up to win it. Their lack of real concern about anything places them in denial of the fact that they are gettng old, and that they do not dominate teams the way they once did.
It is the Broncos who have managed to give them something they did not deserve the last two seasons. I think they have some major concerns that they have not addressed and this division is much closer competetively than they are willing to admit.
That makes them the least realistic in their approach to this season. The rest of the team’s fan bases are optomistic and at the same time aware of what can derail that optimism. At least as I see it.
"My team's on the floor"
Gene Hackman - Hoosiers
by AlanC11 on Jul 1, 2010 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
Even
when the DOLTS dominated teams, it’s important to remember that they always underachieved, they’re out of chances FINALLY. How can this season not be a decline for San Diego?
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jul 6, 2010 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions
Both the Chiefs and Broncos need a young nose tackle
and both teams passed on Cam Thomas through 5 rounds. That says a lot about Cam’s prospects as a guy with an NFL future.
Predictions:
This year will be better
by jmcgoblue on Jul 1, 2010 12:37 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
+1
Exactemundo.
I like Josh. But I need Ws.
by broncosmontana on Jul 5, 2010 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions
Nice avatar.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 1, 2010 7:24 PM MDT up reply actions
haha very nicely put.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
I kinda agree
However I also kinda remember the same theme of the Bolts demise being said for the past two seasons.
I’ll believe it when I see it. This won’t be until the end of the 2010 season when they haven’t finished strong and we haven’t collapsed late.
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams
by orange&blue_aussie on Jul 6, 2010 1:06 AM MDT up reply actions
Interesting
Good digging Kyle! Haha just kidding Nick, nice job man
A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.
haha thanks sayre!
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Here's an idea..
Good research and a cool concept.
I think an equally cool idea might be to poll the other SBN pages about their opinions about the other teams.
Like- What are the AFC West teams’ weakest links? What are their strengths? What part of each team scares you the most? What players are most overhyped by their own fan base?
I guess we’d just have to ask ourselves how much Orton-bashing we were ready to hear.
I have my freedom, but I don't have much time.
you sir just gave me a new idea
Look for that article in the future!
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
I’m not sure. I think we can and do learn from a post like this. We learn who and what to watch for, personnel and points that may have slipped under our radar. We learn about other teams fan favorite’s, their weaknesses and their worries. I’m not sure what we could really learn, though, from listening to a Raiders fan talk about the Chargers, the Chiefs talk about the Raiders, etc…
Do we really care if Chargers fans think DHB will be improved, or if Raiders fans think Dexter McCluster is the bees knees? And I certainly wouldn’t learn anything from another teams fan telling us Ayers and Moreno won’t improve, that they don’t fear Orton’s arm, Thomas’ legs, etc..
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
Elvis has left the building.
Sorry. I couldn’t resist.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
It was a messy divorce. Thanks to Nick for pointing me in the right direction to make the name split official :)
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
Geez.
I wouldn’t be able to go by Bryan on here. It would seem so unnatural….
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
I agree
Honestly I couldn’t care less what fans of other teams think- don’t care. In this thread, we see that mostly, fans of other teams repeat what the MSM tells them about teams other than their own- “Ayers/Moreno were busts, Orton has a noodle arm…” and all that other nonsense.
Most fans don’t know jack about their own team (members here are an obvious exception) much less about other teams. Seems like a flame-fest waiting to happen.
by AllBroncsallday on Jul 8, 2010 4:13 PM MDT up reply actions
There is always one ! some times more .
That raider fan was inmature for the profane replys. Shake that one off . The guys probably like 15 yrs old or something !
And reading some stuff over the AP blog , There seems to be a some dislike for LB
Robert Ayers for something he did to There RB jamal Charels ?. Something to keep
an eye on. That could grow into a hopefully a 2 game annual tourture fest for them.,
esp if Ayers turns into the beast we all hope he will be !
And chargers fans really seem nervous that the window might be closing !
by broncosfaninphilly on Jul 1, 2010 8:38 AM MDT reply actions
haha Raider fans can be really classy, or absolutely classless
Robert body slammed Charles last season. It was pretty awesome, but they felt it was dirty. That is why they hate him.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
It was dirty...
but the Broncos got plenty dirty when trying to tackle Charles but land in the dirt that game. What was it? 256 yards? Something like that…Wow.
Jamaal Charles...Enough said.
A lot less dirtier than back in the day when Marty told his defense to go out and hurt Elway...
Quitter's People United Member #396
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions *for the purpose of learning* trolls. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one.
by Drizzt396 on Jul 2, 2010 10:41 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd like to see some proof of that.
That wouldn’t be very typical of Marty. Not his style at all.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 3, 2010 12:09 AM MDT up reply actions
We Let
Chiefs fans roam free here, but I’ve been locked out of AP forever because I had the audacity to say I hate the Chiefs GO BRONCOS. That’s all, seriously. Grow some thicker skin!
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jul 6, 2010 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions
Wow what great look at the AFC West
I agree with you, the folks over at AP are pretty cool and will hold a great conversation on many topics without slander.
But, of all the teams in the West, the SD fans are the ones drinking the most koolaid IMO. If Jackson and McNeil aren’t playing I believe it will have a bigger impact than they believe. Rivers needs more than one target to throw to. In games where his receivers are shut down he struggles and gets frustrated. Oh what a thing of beauty to see.
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
Agreed
Charger fans are going to be mighty disappointed if they’re expecting 11 and 5 this year. RIvers is very good but he’s not THAT good.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Thanks BChiper
SD is definitely drinking some kool aid. They are in for a shock, and not a good one IMO
I will be so happy if we spank them this year.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
A double spanking would be great!
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
I just wonder if you really
got the people over in the Black Armpit to speak in complete sentences, or if you had to dissect their words to form something that looked legit???
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
Speaking of which
(From Adam Schefter)
Filed to ESPN: The NFL suspended SD Pro Bowl WR Vincent Jackson three games for violating the league’s personal conduct policy.
(Btw, thanks for this, really fun idea to check in with all the fans - one could argue we’re all equally delusionally optimistic. Or just delusional. ;) )
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
oops, stupid cross out...
one could argue we’re all equally delusionally optimistic. Or just delusional. ;) )
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
i think chief fans are drinking to much kool-aid
They really believe they are super bowl contenders
Tebow + Moreno = #1 rushing attack
by Pmoreno95 on Jul 1, 2010 9:41 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
What Chiefs fan believes that? Maybe a couple, but that could be said for fans from every team every year. The majority think they’re going to be right around .500 and perhaps a game or two better if few players finally have breakout seasons.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
at arrowhead pride
There are already talks about a dynasty which imo they are no where close to being a dynasty
Tebow + Moreno = #1 rushing attack
by Pmoreno95 on Jul 1, 2010 1:13 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
The talks about dynasty are what could possibly be using comparisons to how other dynasties were built. All of the Chiefs fans realize that its a long process and that the team is still being built. I’m not sure where you are coming up with how we think the Chiefs are Super Bowl contenders this year.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
ok i might have exagerated the super bowl thing but
You guys are way to high on eric berry
Tebow + Moreno = #1 rushing attack
by Pmoreno95 on Jul 1, 2010 1:53 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
ok i might have exagerated the super bowl thing but
You guys are way to high on eric berry
Tebow + Moreno = #1 rushing attack
by Pmoreno95 on Jul 1, 2010 1:53 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
ok i might have exagerated the super bowl thing but
You guys are way to high on eric berry
Tebow + Moreno = #1 rushing attack
by Pmoreno95 on Jul 1, 2010 1:53 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Yea you really exagerated there
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jul 1, 2010 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Really? About as much as I’ve read (which is the majority of what’s been on AP) is that he is a potential ROY and has great play-making ability. Not sure he’s been looked at as a savior or some kind of god. Once again, you’re exaggerating what you’ve read.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
isn't every Rookie a potential ROY?
theres a 50% chance of it I believe
(not mocking you McG – making a point)
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
Yes, technically every rookie is a potential ROY; it’s not 50% though.
But you get my point. Chiefs fans haven’t annointed Berry a Hall of Famer or treated him like an almighty savior. We look at him as a damn good safety with playmaking ability that drastically improves the secondary, specifically the safety postiion, which had some major breakdowns last year.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
see exactly as im saying u guys are looking at him as a damn good safety
What has he done so far? Nothing.
Tebow + Moreno = #1 rushing attack
by Pmoreno95 on Jul 1, 2010 10:03 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
He was a damn good safety in college. It’s the same as you looking at your first round draft picks as good players. I’m not sure what’s wrong with having high expectations for your first round draft pick, as long as they’re not too high.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
Same thing could be said about Tebow or Thomas
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jul 2, 2010 11:23 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
except that we don't expect either to come in and immediately "drastically improve" our receiving corps or quarterback position...
Quitter's People United Member #396
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions *for the purpose of learning* trolls. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one.
Well I think most of us expect Thomas to improve our recieving corp
Plus the fact that players like Thomas and Berry have the option to start day 1, making an immediate impact, especially if the coaches take advantage of their specific skill set.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
i didnt say hes being looked at as a savior or god
I dont see him being roy. Mcclain has a better chance
Tebow + Moreno = #1 rushing attack
by Pmoreno95 on Jul 1, 2010 10:01 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree about the fan perspective on Berry. It's been blown way out of proportion.
I’m not drinking the Berry flavored Kool aid until he at least starts playing some games. I DO think he was a smart pick though.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 1, 2010 10:21 PM MDT up reply actions
thanks for agreeing with me i knew i wasnt over exagerating about berry
Tebow + Moreno = #1 rushing attack
by Pmoreno95 on Jul 2, 2010 12:34 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Nevermind, I could just cite your signature line. That’s pretty hypocritical.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
show me some qoutes
Tebow + Moreno = #1 rushing attack
by Pmoreno95 on Jul 2, 2010 10:42 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Don't get me wrong.
I think Berry is the best Safety prospect to come along in a long time but, it will take a while to come to fruition.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 10:47 AM MDT up reply actions
agree
Fans of all stripes know that potential is one thing but making good on it is another. So many factors at work, from contracts to scheme fit to injury to playing up to your opportunities, there are so many pitfalls for young players.
I do think Berry is on the right road to stardom, though. I was hoping we would nab him for our own secondary, and I’m more than a little sad to see him in KC. But it’s good for the rivalry to have good players in the division, so bring it on!
I like Josh. But I need Ws.
by broncosmontana on Jul 5, 2010 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions
Quotes about what? You’re the one saying we’re making too big a deal about our top draft choice and yet you’re sig line is about how good Tebow’s going to be.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
by JComp11 on Jul 2, 2010 11:13 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
Berry is NFL ready. Tebow is a developmental guy.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 11:59 AM MDT up reply actions
latter today ill get on the computer and copy and paste some stuff
Tebow + Moreno = #1 rushing attack
by Pmoreno95 on Jul 2, 2010 1:16 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
It’s fine I don’t really care. My point is that you can find a small sample that have way too high of expectations for Berry, but you could do the same for Thomas and Tebow. Once again, your signature alone proves my case as you seem to be one of those that have high expectations. Most Chiefs fans have realistic expectations for him as a first round draft pick.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
my expectation is relistic for tebow
I have high expectations for moreno :)
Tebow + Moreno = #1 rushing attack
by Pmoreno95 on Jul 2, 2010 3:08 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
i know you are going to insult me about this some how lol
but a member of arrowhead pride has this as his signature. 2/3 of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Eric Berry.
Tebow + Moreno = #1 rushing attack
I have one word for that sig line.
Awesomesauce!
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 10:47 PM MDT up reply actions
And, we've been using it for Champ Bailey for years
You might as well come in second on that too ;-)
Gnothi Seauton
by Doc Bear on Jul 2, 2010 10:49 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
There is a facebook group for it
and I have been a member since 2006
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Jul 3, 2010 12:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Nothing "low" about it
It’s simply the fact of the matter.
by AllBroncsallday on Jul 4, 2010 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions
Yep
Just changed my profile pic- think it’s circa 2005.
Nope, nothing new about this. Of course, Champ’s actually proven it, while Berry has yet to play one second in the NFL.
Seems a bit premature to say that a safety will be the next best corner in the NFL.
by AllBroncsallday on Jul 7, 2010 9:34 AM MDT up reply actions
Check my profile pic- that's circa 2005
Check out the Chefs biting our rhymes…
by AllBroncsallday on Jul 7, 2010 9:35 AM MDT up reply actions
A lot of us think Chiefs can be playoff contenders
pretty much based on the expectations that most of the gaping holes on the roster were filled in the draft and the team faces a much, much easier schedule this season. Continuity should help as well. I’m a Chiefs fan though, so of course I’m biased here ;)
San Diego seems to be on the wrong side of a dynasty (relatively speaking). Rivers is one of the best, but as far as I can see every other position group, other than RB, is declining with that team. They benefited last season with having an easy schedule, with all three of their division mates being in transition.
Oakland is getting WAY too much love in the media this year. Al Davis didn’t completely screw up the draft for once & he finally gave up on JRuss, so suddenly they are a playoff contender? They still have terrible coaching and an offense in disarray….I give them 6-7 wins at best.
Denver…I don’t really know what to think about Denver. Orton was much better than I expected him to be (I literally laughed when you guys brought him in) last season. Losing Marshall is going to be tough, but if he was as much a distraction as it appears it may be a case of addition through subtraction. I’m not sold on Tebow at all, but he could still help out the team in a limited role this season. I think KC will beat you guys 2x, but I also have a nagging feeling that I’m underestimating the Broncos, just like last year.
Predictions:
This year will be better
I like your pick at TE, and I even like McCluster. But what holes do you think you filled? Pioli’s answer to having a grand total of 22 sacks last year was to sit pat. The answer to Cassel getting sacked like 200 times was to do nothing – no new QB, no new tackle. Your answer to a 31st ranked run defense was to do nothing. What holes do you think were filled?
I think your offense can be better by using McCluster as a quick option for Cassel to go to… IF he’s up for it and ready for it. I think one of these days Bowe might get it together, too. I just don’t see how you guys think you can stop the score board from blowing up just by adding help to the secondary when you still can’t get to the QB or stop the run.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
Allow me...
Pioli’s answer to the grand total of 22 sacks was filling the secondary with talent both in coverage and blitz. Javier Arenas was picked in the second round largely for his ability to blitz off the edge in nickel packages, and I expect to see a lot of nickel packages in use since the modern NFL is a very pass-oriented league these days. The answer to Cassel getting sacked a bunch was two fold: improve the OL and improve the running game.
You’ll notice the sacks surrendered per game dropped dramatically in the second half of the season as the OL became familiar with zone blocking scheme (a tough transition considering some of the lineman had to learn how to play at a lighter weight thus emphasizing technique a lot more than sheer size) and the emergence of Jamaal Charles. It was a lot easier to pin your ears back and rush when 2.7 was running into his center’s ass and falling down. Also, we brought in a guy who started in 2 super bowls to play G and we brought in a C that went to a probowl with your Broncos (not to mention a highly regarded G prospect drafted to wait in the wings). The T position was never the glaring weakness on our line, it was interior line play and we have made good efforts to address that.
The run D wasn’t addressed so much w personnel as it was with coaching and a level of patience. Last year was a transition to 3-4 and thats always going to be tough, especially w a fairly poor DC in Pendergast last year. This year, Romeo Crennel was brought in, and he’s a guy who has had a fairly proven record of success as a DC, with a handful of rings and all that. If you’re gonna make the transition to a new defense, it really helps to have the right DC. Also, the run D specifically became a problem in part because of the youth on the DLine. T-Jax and Dorsey will both be significantly better this season (eventhough Dorsey was fairly stout against the run last year). Also, we have some ILBs that hadn’t seen much playing time in the NFL until last yuear that I think will progress quie nicely this season. Run D is still the biggest concern, but its a passing game these days and if we can stop the pass, and click offensively, teams’ ability to run w some success on us won’t destroy us.
...And as the roar of 80,000 red-clad great plains warriors fills the hallowed halls of Arrowhead, it will strike fear into the hearts of lesser men. For on that field, individual men toil for something greater than individual honors. They toil as brothers-in-arms, as 53 spirits striving towards a single purpose and driven by a single goal: The glory that comes with vanquishing your foes. They will achieve their birthright, they will be champions.
by Sudden on Jul 1, 2010 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
nice response
:)
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
however,
i still think you guys are a couple seasons from being a legitimate contender in the west – Rookies gotta get their legs wet first along with a few more pickups, the Cheifs. I forsee the west getting a lot tougher in a couple years!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
Yes, u didn’t bring in new players to address the 31st ranked run defense. Are you really trying to me that your personnel fix for the pathetic 22 sacks u had last year was to bring in two db’s? DB’s are your solution to ranking next to last in the league in sacks?
Nice try on the offensive line getting better late. I’m on my mobile so while I can’t give u exact numbers, I can tell you that cassel was getting rid of the ball quicker cuz he was getting scared of getting hit – he took less sacks but he got worse. I believe ten of his 16 int’s came in the last six games. He also had only one rating of over 75 in that span. I looked at t nmbers this morning, so hopefully memory serves, but I believe he had ratings of 14 and 38 during those 6 games, too.
Your line didn’t get solid, Cassel got scared of the hits and started making rushed decisions.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
by Alex on Jul 1, 2010 4:58 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Addressed this in our other debate, actually
7 of those 10 INTs came while DBowe was suspended, as did those QB ratings. It’s not all on that — there were still plenty of miscommunication going on with the offense.
Losing Bowe certainly complicated all aspects of the passing game. The same way losing Marshall will.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
I doubt very much that losing Marshall will increase Orton’s interceptions. As I said over there, I just don’t see a correlation. How does a WR prevent a QB from throwing interceptions, as you suggest Bowe does for Cassel?
There’s plenty of QB’s out there without a Bowe and without a Marshall that don’t make rushed decisions that lead to interceptions. Ten interceptions in six games coincides with the same six games (the last six of the season) when Cassel started taking way less sacks. That seems like a real cause and effect relationship to me. Cassel not wanting to take so many hits caused him to rush the ball out faster and the effect was bad decisions and interceptions.
I don’t see losing a #1 WR to suspension as excuse to throw the ball to the other team so often. Especially for a QB that’s considered safe.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
by Alex on Jul 3, 2010 1:09 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
When you're #1 WR isn't on the field...
I believe it really limits your options. Especially for a QB and WRs that do not know a playbook very well. You most certainly know where your #1 receiver is on most plays. When that easy read isn’t there, and you aren’t sure of the other progressions, then yes, you ARE going to make hurried decisions.
There are other ways that not having your best talent on the field hurts your QB. There are routes that are cut short that lead to interceptions (see Peyton to Wayne in the SB). There are plenty of instances that occur where the QB throws a bad ball and the WR has to do everything he can for it not to get picked — screen the DB, make a tackle to knock it out.. whatever. I can’t just automatically make the connection that more ints + less sacks + worse rating indicates that he’s skittish and scared to take a shot.
Especially when those two low ratings and 6 INTs came from the #2 and #3 pass defenses in Buffalo and Denver, respectively. Bowe was out for both of those games. Are those not valid correlations?
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Well, I’m listening. But I still think it’s a major reach to suggest a WR’s suspension caused a QB to toss more interceptions.
Pretend for a moment that it’s not KC we’re talking about, and it’s not the Chiefs… A guy throws 12 TD’s to only six interceptions in the first nine games of ‘09; his passer rating is 79.46, but he’s averaging 3.78 sacks per game.
Then, for the final six games, he takes only 1.33 sacks per game, but his passer rating drops all the way to 58. Where he once had a very solid 2:1 TD to interception ratio, he’s now goes way under water with a 2.5:1 Interception to TD ratio (10 Int’s to 4 TD’s).
Think about that. He was throwing twice as manyTD’s and Int’s in the first nine games and had a respectable passer rating, then all the sudden he’s throwing 2.5 times more interceptions than touchdowns and has a laughable passer rating. What changed, you ask? He started taking about 2.5 less sacks per game.
Either way you chop it, Matt digressed over those last six games pretty badly and that’s never a good sign of progress. You contend that the reason Cassel took less sacks is because the line got better. You then argue that the reason Cassel played worse is because Bowe was gone.
But Bowe didn’t play in game three, the early part of the season where Cassel was doing well. Yet, Matt had his best passer rating of of the season, 124.5, and tossed two TD’s… without Bowe. So the one constant that remains, regardless of whether Bowe played, Cassel was decent through nine games when he was taking sacks, then terrible through the last six when he stopped taking sacks.
And for the record, Matt’s passer rating averaged only two points difference with Bowe in (71.35) and with him out (69.86).
Cassel got worse because the line never got better, IMO. Cassel got tired of taking the hits and started rushing the ball out quicker than he was safely capable of doing so.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
by Alex on Jul 4, 2010 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
There you go with those damn numbers again.
Nicely put.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Thanks. And thanks for the thought provoking convo. One las thought. Cassel took more sacks behind Boson’s line in ‘08 than behind your line ’09. That does suggest that your line may not be as bad as portrayed, that maybe Cassel’s just a sack magnet. Either way, though, that many sacks is a problem needing fixing, IMO. Either the QB must change or the line must change. Since the bookends remain, let’s hope for your sake that Cassel improves his internal clock for 14 games out of the year. I’ll certainly be cheering for him twice against the Bolts =)
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
Seriously...you gotta be kidding
upgrading the secondary is your answer for more sacks? you gotta be kidding nickel blitzes are used sparingly you cant just have the nickel guy blitz every time you need some pressure. If you think Javier Arenas is the answer to blitzing then us broncos fans should have the best blitzing defense with our addition of Nate Jones who is a PROVEN nickel blitzer…definitively not the case. Javier Arenas will help your return game if Mcluster gets involved heavily with the offense, but using him as an answer for your poor production on defense is VERY delusional. If you want a solid improvement it will be the addition of Romeo Crennel, him coupled with Charlie Weis are your two best off season pick ups hands down. Romeo will probably create some pressure by mixing things up in the front 7, he’s a proven D-coordinator. As for O-line, Lilja will help but he’s OK not amazing, Weigman ok but old, and Asamoah will help your run game but not pass protection until maybe next season. You guys got better but you cant tell me theirs no concern i mean Albert is all you had last season and even he struggled.
If you ask most Chiefs fans, most will tell you we are still concerned about our pass rush.
Although Hali is a vastly underrated player, he can’t do it all by himself. We need our LBs to step it up BIG TIME this year.
Not nabbing a NT in the draft still blows me away although, I have faith that Crennell has a good idea of what he is doing. This is where some blind faith comes into play.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 3, 2010 12:04 AM MDT up reply actions
great
Hali is definitely underrated but even if you say he’s Dumervil (which he is not), the front 7 needs work. Anyways I think that Romeo will help you a guys a lot but just don’t set up high expectations i guess. I think you’ll see different guys step up under Crennel maybe no stars but an improvement across the board…definitely makes it harder to beat you guys next year
As
delusional as they are, I don’t think it’s Kool-Aid, unless they spike it with Dos Equis.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jul 6, 2010 10:08 AM MDT up reply actions
Play Calling
The thing some people forget is that last year, Josh McDaniels was a rookie too. He’s been a coach for a long time but being the Head Coach is a different animal that involves more than just calling the offensive plays. Not only that, it’s come to light that many of the players last year were not comfortable enough with the system for the playbook to open up to the extent that we – and no doubt the coaches – would have liked. I have a feeling that a combination of player familiarity with the system and a year of maturity under the belt of the coach might see an improvement in that area.
These things don’t happen overnight – unless you’re used to Madden, and then maybe they do.
Why hate on your OWN team when you've got the Raiders?
by TheMastermind on Jul 1, 2010 10:10 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
I hope that things change for the better
Brandon is gone. We need more skillful scheming if we are going to be an offensive force. I think many of us forget McD was a rookie also. Hopefully he progresses more in his 2nd year. We expect a lot more our of our 2nd year people :)
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
In that excellent SI piece a few weeks ago,
McDaniels expressed his frustration at not being able to open the playbook up…. or even to run simple, repetitive, sure-fire plays successfully because the blockers were missing assignments (read: bubble screens). I think his mind schemes just fine. The players don’t yet understand how to execute the scheme. We’ll get there, though. This year will be much better.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
The Raiders are the most improved other than us, IMO. Rolando McClain should go a long way to immediately shore up their run defense. I’m not sold on their pass defense, and think it was more a product of teams not passing when they’re ahead. But the defensive line has seen some major upgrades and Seymour finally signed. The offense should get immediately better with Campbell, but not immediately great. The offense in Oakland doesn’t have much more in the way of playmakers than Campbell had the last couple of years. If DHB shows up this year, and/or if their running game gets going, I could see them fighting for 8, maybe even 9 wins.
Charger fans are in denial. Cam Thomas, a 5th round rookie, is their “bright spot”? Jamal Williams won’t be missed? BS. The Chargers didn’t get tested last year in run defense because the Chargers run defense is to score so many points on offense that teams get behind and stop running the ball on you. Let’s see how well that works without McNeil there to buy time for Rivers to find his biggest playmaker. Let’s see how Floyd does without Jackson there to take the double teams.
AP is a nice site with great fans, I agree. They’ve got my vote for the biggest koolaid drinkers, though. This team was pretty bad last year, and they’ve made no real changes in getting after opposing QB’s (31st in the league – five more total sacks than Dumervil alone), they never looked to protect their QB by drafting an OT after having Cassel sacked 4th most in the NFL, and they didn’t do anything to stop the run (where they ranked 31st). The Chiefs might be able to run the ball, but I’m not sure how a new slot receiver and rookie TE is going to keep Cassel from getting punch-drunk on sacks, pressure opposing QB’s, or stop the run – you know, the important things in football.
The Chiefs’ bright spot is that they’ll not be changing offensive schemes and OC two weeks before camp, and that they’ve got everybody attending camp. Their problem is that they don’t have enough talent on the team and didn’t hit up free agency to get it. The Raiders bright spot is Tom Cable, a coach that finally got the ear of Al Davis, that they had a good draft and continuity. Their problems are a suspect secondary and a complete lack of offensive weapons. The Chargers’ bright spot is that Ryan Mathews isn’t LT. Their problem is a locker room in disaray, a three-game suspension for their biggest playmaker, a nagging injury for their next biggest playmaker (Gates), and likely holdouts from two of their best offensive players. The Chargers will be the only team in the AFC West to have digresssed this year, IMO.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
by Alex on Jul 1, 2010 10:39 AM MDT reply actions 3 recs
I think this fact is grossly underestimated...
The Chiefs’ bright spot is that they’ll not be changing offensive schemes and OC two weeks before camp, and that they’ve got everybody attending camp.
Having to learn a new blocking scheme, OLine shifts, audibles, hot reads, blitz reads, an entire playbook of plays, and the terminology for all of it DURING the grind of the regular season where you’re scheming and gameplanning for the next opponent, looking at film, working on some weak areas from the previous week…
I honestly don’t know, but I suspect these things would take a huge toll on an offense. As for your other points, we’ve been back and forth about before. I’ll just say that the overall attitude between last season and this season around this time is like night and day. It’s not the summer camp that Herm has been running the past few years. It’s professionalism, hard work, dedication (as indicated by having full participation in OTAs and minicamp)… And it all leads to progress.
And, unlike last season, all the hard work put into the 3 or 4 months of offseason work won’t be undone by jettisoning the entire offensive scheme a week before the regular season.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Idk about the Raiders
I’m not sold on them. There defense as a whole is not spectacular. Nmadi is the lone star. Everyone else is decent to mediocre to bad. Their dline got some upgrades, but there are certainly some questions. Their offense as a whole is a question mark. I think Raider fans are getting their hopes up because Jason Campbell is their QB now.
Charger fans are in denial. Period.
Chief didn’t do a couple of things that they should have done. Who is going to protect Cassel? Who is going to rush the QB? Their receiving options aren’t that pretty. They are way kool aid drunk when it comes to McCluster IMO.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Great write up
Sometimes I forget that we are not the only fans who drink the cool aid and think their draft picks will instantly become perenial pro-bowlers. That said, the re-loading season is the silly season where every team and its fans still believes that they are going to win the SB.
thanks cockneybronco
we are definitely not alone in drinking kool aid.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
thanks alex appreciate it.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Great work, rec'd
This is a cool idea, and it’s nice to see what other AFC West fans think of their teams. I think to varying degrees, most, if not all, fans drink some Kool-Aid, though they won’t necessarily admit it. I know I’m always really optimistic about the Broncos, so there’s probably so Kool-Aid involved there.
But that being said, all of the optimism for any team has a root based in some solid reasoning that could have been overblown (we’ll see once the regular season gets going), and each fanbase has some good points.
"Mr. President, call in the National Guard! Send as many men as you can spare! Because we are killing the Patriots! They need emergency help!" - Shannon Sharpe
and yet again... the small percentage of fans who are usually the loudest
are drinking Malt Liquor…. as they are sick with every move the team makes!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
Thanks BMan
A lot of us are optimistic about our teams. It’s important that we don’t get overly optimistic. Everyone has their points, but some points are more ludicrous then ludacris.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Nice work
And congrats on the name change.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
thanks max for both things haha
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Those Chef fans are in for another big disappointment when their team is drafting in the Top 5 in 2011.
When your fans are excited about Jason Campbell, you are also setting yourself up for disappointment. Faiders will also be assume the position around #7 overall in the 2011 draft.
The Dolts should be pretty good again. I sense another 6th place finish for them this season. Without McNeil and Jackson, that will be more like a 10th place finish and playoff loss in the wild card round. Me thinks their D will be bottom 10 in the NFL.
Bring on TC. I’m ready…
World Cup officiating reminds me of with Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
I agree
I think we have only improved. It will be because of the Bolt’s Defense and their lack of their studs who are holding out that their offense won’t be as dominant in the past. Their offense will still be very good, however.
Because of this, I think that Denver will prevail in the west!!!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
That depends on better coaching and better play from the QB. We need to score many more points in 2010 vs 2009 if we want to win the AFC West. Our D should be the best D in the West (Oak = 2 and KC/SD = sucky Defense). It’s our O that needs to step it up.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
If statistics tell you anything
its that with good coaching and good players around you, you can only get better after the 1st year in the league. I think it all lays on our offensive lines hands.
I do like the pickups we have on the line, but missing Clady hurts. And the rookies are unproven in the NFL. If the rookies can play like Clady did his first year, and Clady comes back….. watch out! Either way, it’s going to be a ride.
I expect an 8-8 season, with as high as a 10-6. Either way, I think we have a chance at clinching a playoff spot, even if it happens to be a wild card!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
I'm reminded of something that you always hear on investment bank commercials.
You know, the disclaimer about past performance not being a indication of future results. Yes, my mighty Chiefs have fallen over three years due to inept coaching, and aging roster, and poor understanding of the modern NFL. But last year, we took the corrective measures. It was an ambitious endeavor from day 1, and we all knew that it would take time. Heck, I actually met Pioli in Philly during week 3 and he told everyone at the bar he met us at (he visited this place called Big Charlie’s on 11th and McKean in So Philly) to be patient, and that this season was going to be rough, but they were building a team that would compete for years to come and that took time. He was remarkably candid and accessible (honestly, that was a class move and showed he is a genuine man).
But we finished the season on a strong note and things began to click. We’ve had a full offseason with returning starters, the same terminology, and the players in condition (the players were severely out of shape last season because they were so used to Herm’s half-assed approach). We have added SB winning coordinators. I’ll just remind you, since both our teams are being built on the Patriot model, that the Pats went 5-11 the year before going 11-5 and winning their first SB. Do I think the Chiefs will win the SB this year? No (although anything is possible in theory), but do I expect that this team will be greatly improved and finish no less than second in the AFC West. Yes.
...And as the roar of 80,000 red-clad great plains warriors fills the hallowed halls of Arrowhead, it will strike fear into the hearts of lesser men. For on that field, individual men toil for something greater than individual honors. They toil as brothers-in-arms, as 53 spirits striving towards a single purpose and driven by a single goal: The glory that comes with vanquishing your foes. They will achieve their birthright, they will be champions.
I should also add that one of the reason I think you lean too heavily on past performance is the Chargers
I really think that team is on the decline. The last two years they were an illusion based largely on how weak our division was as a whole. I see them really returning to earth this season, especially with questions on their #1 WR and LT.
...And as the roar of 80,000 red-clad great plains warriors fills the hallowed halls of Arrowhead, it will strike fear into the hearts of lesser men. For on that field, individual men toil for something greater than individual honors. They toil as brothers-in-arms, as 53 spirits striving towards a single purpose and driven by a single goal: The glory that comes with vanquishing your foes. They will achieve their birthright, they will be champions.
I said before draft I thought the Sparklers were on the decline
while the Broncos, faiders and chefs were on the rise. The Sparklers might win the division again this year, but thats a MIGHT. I see them slipping next year, if they don’t this!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
Let's keep it real and honest.
Boy… It’s hard to say anyone in the AFC West is on the rise.
It’s not something to get excited about going from 2-14 to 4-12. Your team sucks either way and you’re drafting in the Top 5 or so. Not one team in the AFC West took a step forward in 2009. Just a lot of inept and sideways shuffling.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
I'd say the Raiders took a big step forward
Campbell is enough to give them at least one more win on his own, plus both the offensive and defensive line additions, while the they won’t be huge, I’d say going from 5-11 to 8-8 is taking a step forward.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
The Raiders won’t sniff 8-8. Campbell is not a Top 20 NFL QB. Never has been, never will be. Is he better than Russell (hell, I’m better than Russell)…
Their O-line is blah, their WRs are blah, their RBs are blah, the D is decent, but nothing special, Cable is their coach, Davis is their owner, they have 30,000 no shows every week and they win 5 or so games a year. It’s like death, taxes and Raiders drafting in the Top 10.
It’s the Cable factor that makes me the most happy. That dude is hands down the least talented HC in the NFL. I’m not the biggest McD fan or Norv Turner fan, but their football minds runs circles around Cable.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
agreed
but in the next couple years, IF they keep making decisions like they did this past offseason, it will reflect on the field. But of course, as long as the Broncos keep an upper hand on them, it wont matter when they play us :D
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
Making Jason Cambell your starting QB and over-drafting an ILB does not make for an awesome offseason.
It’s just looks better by default vs years past. I’m not fooled.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
Actually their D is pretty good
Not that you’d admit that, and Campbell isn’t a top tier QB, he will make a difference considering how many games were lost last season by their quarterback. Also I could easily see them around 8-8 or 7-9, they have some very easy games against teams like the Rams, and a number of games that are toss ups against the Seahawks, Chiefs, Arizona and Jacksonville, plus if you look at who they beat last season, I think they will pull some upsets. So while it’s fun to just make vague attacks, most of which I agree with, I don’t think they will struggle as much as you say.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jul 1, 2010 2:33 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
They will be 6-10ish.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
Their team as a whole looks better than it did this time last year
so they should improve. They won’t be contenders in the west just yet, but they will improve.
However as for their QB situation goes… they coulda stuck a Pop Warner QB in there and it would have been better than Russell!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
I know… But Jason Campbell has proven to be a 6-10ish QB on better teams than the one they have in Oakland.
Going from terrible to a little less terrible is not something worthy of a pat on the back. It’s not really improvement.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
I don't think Campbell will win them any games either
but he’ll find the endzone a little more often. Any improvement at all is improvement.
It may not show up at the end of the games, but its still going in the right direction.
Whether you are going due east at 60mph or 2mph, you are still going east!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
But if you are only going 2 mhp east, your coach gets fired after 2010 and your QB gets replaced.
That will be the next offseason in Oakland.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
I agree...when Jason Campbell is a savior.....thats NOT awesome...
And I like Campbell, but really…how much better is he than Gradkowski???
The Raiders MIGHT win 6……but if they think adding McClain and Campbell suddenly makes them an above .500 team is ridiculous.
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
Dunno about that
Raiders won 5 games last year, 3 against playoff teams. They’ve had a huge albatross around their necks for a long time (JaFatso) and it looks like Al has finally decided to let the coaches do the coaching. I see a team that is sick and tired of losing, and will play real hard this year. I can easily see them finishing above .500.
It is of perhaps interest that our human genetic code is constructed by the exact same four nucleotides as every other form of life on the planet.
My Stroke Of Insight, by Jill Bolte Taylor, Ph.D.
Agree to disagree....
Jamarcus led them to a victory against us.
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
Even a broken clock
is right twice a day. JaFatso could always throw the ball, and he got lucky that day. But the Raiders are going to benefit greatly by not having him around – he had to be spreading a huge miasmic cloud all over that team. He blamed the rest of the offense for his pathetic play.
It is of perhaps interest that our human genetic code is constructed by the exact same four nucleotides as every other form of life on the planet.
My Stroke Of Insight, by Jill Bolte Taylor, Ph.D.
Are you sure?
Wasn’t it more like a mammoth with an identity crisis?
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
by Horsepower on Jul 3, 2010 1:32 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I heard that the Raiders
stuck a cheeseburger at the end of a long maze and stuck JaMarcus the Hutt in after it thinking he’d be lost in the maze for a decade or so looking for it.
Unfortunately he sniffed out the cheeseburger right away and they had to just let him go
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
See???
That’s how dumb the raiders are. They came up with the genius plan of putting a cheeseburger at the end of a maze, but they are too stupid to put one in the endzone during a regular season game. Heck, he would have gone after a doughnut or a twinkie, I betcha.
Amateurs…
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
Well...
maybe not my burritos. One of his own, sure… but I don’t see why we have to put my burritos into the equation, here.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
by Troy Hufford on Jul 1, 2010 11:32 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
McG
I don’t believe they are on the rise due to their wins. I am looking at personnel changes, both in the FO and on the field. I think we (the Broncos), the faiders and chefs are making good decisions which will propel them forward and should start to reflect if not this season, then next. Meanwhile, I feel the Dolts aren’t doing anything more than trying to keep afloat in a tsunami, eventually their arms will tire and they will drown.
Just my opinion, take it for what its worth :)
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
I don’t buy it with any team.
Just because you draft Glenn Dorsey, T Jackson, Ayers, Run DMC, Hey Bey Bey, Tebow with early picks doesn’t mean your team is getting better.
These guys and other young players need to prove out on the field and it hasn’t happened. Sure there is time, but will there be results? After seeing Dorsey, DMC and Bey Bey… wow… not promising is an understatement. You can say that about a lot of the young players in the AFC West (Phonz, Cason, English, Fat Alberts, Cottam, Rich Quinn, J Hester, Buster Davis, maybe Eddie Royal (I hope not), D Bowe, Haward Bey, DMC, Mitchell).
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
I don't expect all of these guys to be a bust
wasn’t there a statistic posted about how 62% (I think) of all first and 2nd round draft picks make significant impacts for their team by year 3?
The top picks usually work out, whereas the bottom picks usually don’t. Not saying they will all work out, but considering we’ve given ourselves the opportunity, I’m all for it!
I wouldn’t undermine Tebow’s determination. If there is any player who has the will to succeed, it’s Tim. I am a Tebow fan, and could place a bet he will be successful. Not saying he will be another Elway, but he will be successful!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
There was not a statistic like that. The real stat that gets quoted a lot is that 50% of 1st round picks bust. The rate on 2nd round picks is even lower.
I have no feeling on Tebow’s NFL success. Unless you take Hey Bey Bey in the Top 10, even I won’t judge a rookie before he plays a single game. All the other guys on my list have already disappointed in the NFL.
Tebow wasn’t on that list. I just said drafting a Tebow doesn’t = improvement. Not until he proves out.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
I can't recall where I read the stat
it was on MHR, however when they were talking about J. Moss a few weeks back. Found it interesting, but cant really quote it or tell you the article. I’m sure someone can tho!
Anywho, I agree Tebow doesn’t = improvement this year. But we won’t even worry about this year anymore IF Tebow becomes successful down the road!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
That 62% stat is not accurate. Draft pick success is quite a bit lower.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
I know its not accurate
I was throwing it out there cause I didn’t remember the exact stat. But I remember the first couple rounds (or at least the first round) having a better than 50% margin of success.
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
don't you know that
73.6% of all percentages are fictional? geesh. lol
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
50% is what you will hear Kiper, Mayock, Tom Jackson, Scheffer and Co often throwing around.
It’s not better than 50% or less than 50%. It’s just 50%.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
well, I can see that point
even if statistics show one thing, there is always a 50% shot with everything.
Heck, there’s a 50% chance its going to snow tomorrow in Florida. It either is or it isn’t.
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
No. There is not a 50% chance of snow in FL tomorrow.
But years of tracking 1st round draft picks proves that 50% do well and 50% bust. It’s the math, it plays not favorites and it’s not random.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
I've never bet on a player making it in the NFL before
but I’m betting on Tebow.
I usually have your take as a “wait and see” with rookies, and I give them 3-4 years to see. Tebow is the first I’m putting money on.
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
I’m much rather have my money on Sam Bradford. He is a better talent for the QB position.
Tebow is a big ?
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
I beg to differ
Bradford I believe is better polished at this point in his career, but I think Tebow has a much higher ceiling.
Time will tell, that’s for sure!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
You are a homer.
There is a very good reason why Bradford went #1 overall and will sign the biggest rookie contract in NFL history and why Tebow was a controversal pick at #25.
Only certain Bronco and Tebow fans think he has a higher NFL ceiling then Bradford. The proof is in the NFL draft pudding and the dollars NFL owners are willing to spend on their players.
I’m a fan that follows his head, not his heart.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
by McGeorge on Jul 1, 2010 3:20 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Part of drafting is grading out “NFL Readiness”. The more ready they are to make impact, the earlier they’re drafted, in most cases. There are plenty of reasons tebow lasted till 25, but a big reason is that he was seen as a project, not nfl ready. Whereas bradford is expected to start.
I think if you polled nfl coaches on which of the will have a better nfl career, tebow might just win. But he didn’t go as high because he’s not ready like bradford. Well, and its high risk/high reward with him.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
by Alex on Jul 1, 2010 5:21 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
thank you Alex!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
You are dreamin like B55. If you asked NFL coaches, 100% of them would have taken Bradford over Tebow with the #1 pick.
A lot of teams don’t even see Tebow as an NFL QB prospect. Bradford was univerally regarded as a good franchise QB prospect. I hate Oklahoma football and I’m not a fan of Bradford in any way, but he went #1 overall not because he will be good as a rookie, but because he projects as a franchise QB better than most QBs that have entered the NFL draft over the last 40 years.
Tebow doesn’t. If he did grade out as a franchise QB, he’d have gone in the Top 5.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
It was news all over that everyone thought Tebow would be successful in the NFL
is was also news that Tebow was a project QB that no one wanted to work on except for maybe a few coaches in the NFL.
I don’t believe everything the MSM feeds me, in fact very little. But I do believe this.
McD has a history of working on project QB’s and he’s done very well. This is why I think he was so inclined to take Tebow… along with other traits.
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
If Bradford had been availible
I’m sure McD would have taken him over Tebow.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
NOT A CHANCE...NO WAY does McD take Bradford.....thats like drafting Kyle Orton to take over from Kyle Orton!
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
Hey now
If you had to pick a quarterback, he would choose Bradford over Tebow. Bradford is a different player then Orton is, he has a stronger arm, and could have more upside then Orton. not sure what you are talking about really.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Really? We disagree again. He does not have a stronger arm and played in a very basic system in college. Very over rated player.
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
Yep I do. Dont need the attitude Max....agree to disagree and leave it at that, eh?
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
Sorry didn't mean to come off that way
Sometimes saying something that is blunt can come off sarcastic, which is it wasn’t.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
No worries man. Happy 4th!
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
If you asked NFL coaches, 100% of them would have taken Bradford over Tebow with the #1 pick.
I don’t disagree in any way shape or form. My comment said he was ready, Tebow wasn’t. Tebow at #1 would have been asinine, I agree. The poll I suggested was who would have the better overall career. I think Tebow would get plenty of votes.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
The Tebow pick was asinine where you guys took him anyway.
He could have been had in the 3rd round easy. Hell, McCoy didn’t get picked until the 4th right? McCoy is a WAY better QB than Tebow (as far as the NFL is concerned that is) Every other coach not named McDaniel would have taken McCoy over Tebow. Believe that.
Possibly the biggest reach in the history of the NFL draft.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 10:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Well maybe not
I think Alualu, who was taken much higher, but they both were expected to go in the 2nd round. And that’s just this draft, in retrospect, I think Leaf and Russell may have been the biggest reaches, but other players like Gholston, DHB and Carriker all were reaches. Tebow was a reach I agree, I didn’t like it, I still don’t. I’m glad we got him, I just think we could have gotten him lower, but to call him the biggest reach in NFL history isn’t even remotely true.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Okay. I'll give you that one.
Def right about Russel and Leaf.
Is it just me or does it really suck that all those picks happened in the AFC West.
BTW: You can’t forget about the Chiefs taking Todd Blackledge over D Marino in the 83 draft. Could also be construed as the biggest reach in history as well.
As a Chiefs fan, I don’t mind pointing that out. Keeps me humble. :)
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 11:55 PM MDT up reply actions
That is the dumbest comment I have heard from a Chief's fan.....Tebow would have gone in 1st or early 2nd.....
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
That's tough to see
The only team even rumored of thinking of picking him was the Patriots. The Bills just came out and said that they thought it was funny how McD jumped up that far to get him, cause they didn’t want him that high. I think most teams might have picked him in the 2nd, but looking at how far McCoy and Clausen fell, it’s hard to see anyone who wasn’t completely in love with Tebow taking him before the 2nd.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Who cares who was rumored to take him? Were we? Were the Cowboys rumored to take Bryant? Was Ryan Mathews rumored to go to SD all the way up at 12? What if San Diego waited?
But speaking of rumor, Tebow wasn’t rumored to last until round three. That’s a reach to suggest that he would have “easily lasted” until round three.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
Yes we were
Tebow was very rumored to come here, lots of mock drafts had us taking him, so yes we were very likely to take him. San Diego was rumored to take Ryan Mathews because he was a more balanced back then Spiller. Mathews was a top prospect for a lot of teams in the early to mid first round, he was projected to go anywhere from 15-25. So yes, lots of teams wanted Mathews, but outside of Denver, I didn’t see many sites that had anyone other then Denver take Tebow. No one followed Tebow more closely then McD, no one talked up Tebow more then Denver, we were the top choice to take him.
By the way who said he would last to round three, cause I think you are putting words in my mouth.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
It was Chiefsfan1970 that I was refering to about round-three. Sorry for the confusion.
I could debate whether or not Tebow was really that rumored to come here, but that’s not the point, is it? And yes, I know Mathews was rumored to go to SD (not anywhere near #12, though, and he was projected later than even you suggest). But again, not the point.
I could name a few more example, but I’m afraid you would debate those too. And again, that wouldn’t be the point. This was the base point of your original comment that I replied to:
The only team even rumored of thinking of picking him (Tebow) was the Patriots.
My point in reply was, “who cares?” It doesn’t even matter a little whether a team was rumored to take a guy. Guys are taken all the time in all kinds of positions that were never rumored to happen. Trades happen. Jax could have swept in. Minny could have used a QB behind Farve. Any team with an aged QB could have moved to take Tebow as a two year project to groom. Anybody, regardless of whether they were “rumored” to be interested, could have moved at Tebow early in the 2nd.
25 may have been a reach. thirty-something might have been too late. And rumors have nothing to do with any of that.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
he Bills just came out and said that they thought it was funny how McD jumped up that far to get him,
The funny thing about this is how quickly the Bills’ owner was to denounce the pick… it was downright vitriolic. Reminds me of over-compensation.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 3, 2010 3:13 PM MDT up reply actions
Pardon the bluntness, but that was a dumb comment. You have no idea how long Tebow would have lasted. I mean obviously you think he would have been there in the third. But easily? You’re so sure that you put it out in the world as fact? Most professionals and pretty much all mocks had Tebow going before that.
Most importantly, who cares where he was drafted? If Tebow is a good starting QB in three years nobody will care.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
Incorrect.
Gailey was looking to take Tebow .
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 3, 2010 3:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Thats not what Alex or 55 said.....I think 31 or 32 coaches would not have taken ANY of the QB's with the 1st pick. Bradford is a HOAX....a HUGE hoax and was less NFL ready than both Clausen and Tebow...
He played in very vanilla offense, had minimal reads and NEVER called plays himself from the line of scrimmage. He was the most SCRIPTED QB in the NFL Draft this year, with HUGE injury concerns. People speak of his accuracy…..but Tebow was better.
The lack of research on Bradford boggled my mind.
He has good accuracy and above average arm…..and thats about it. Thats a LOT to pin a #1 pick on!
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
You are a homer.
There is a very good reason why Bradford went #1 overall and will sign the biggest rookie contract in NFL history and why Tebow was a controversal pick at #25.
Only certain Bronco and Tebow fans think he has a higher NFL ceiling then Bradford. The proof is in the NFL draft pudding and the dollars NFL owners are willing to spend on their players.
I’m a fan that follows his head, not his heart.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
yeah, I'm a bit of a homer
but I don’t pound the koolaid like a lot of people. My cousin is Rick Dennison, so I was kinda born into the family and support my team through thick and thin.
I tend to see the upside of things more than the down, but thats not so bad.
I do feel we have some big ???’s on our team, mostly on the offensive line.
The team usually makes the QB. Look at Aikman before he had a team around him…. he sucked. Same goes for any QB.
Cutler can put up some awesome numbers with a team around him. In Chicago, he sucks.
Tebow HAS a team around him. No, not the greatest, but we are making improvements. Hopefully those transitions and players we bring in will work out. If not, as I stated, Tebow will suck and McD will be canned. But I don’t see it happening right at this point.
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
Are we making improvements? That remains to be seen. Our O got substantially worse in 2009 and losing our best play maker (by far) and our pass catching TE doesn’t scream improvements.
I don’t focus on upside or downside. I tend to look at reality vs fantasy. In fantasy land, Tebow is a franchise QB prospect that projects as a better player than Bradford. In reality, Tebow is a long term project player that will need a ton of makeover work before he is ready to play NFL football.
I disagree about QBs. I haven’t seen an awesome QB on a bad team in decades. Guys like Payton Manning, Brees and Brady make lesser teams look better than they are. When I look at the Colts, they don’t even have a very good offense. Their line is average at best, their RBs are decent but nothing special, the WRs are decent, but overrated and their TE is awesome. What makes the Colts so freaking good is the QB. In the NFL, an awesome QB > any other single factor. Aikman was a pretty awesome QB. Once he learned how to play NFL ball, he was HOF good.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
Being a "homer", a "hater", an agnostic, or any other label does little exept
put the argument into context as to your own philosophy. Regarding Tebow, there is something about the kid that makes even non-Bronco fans pull for him, and believe he has a high ceiling. Yes, and just as many or more that feel the opposite. As you (McG) referred to above, there are “Bronco and Tebow fans”, but as I browse through other sites and read comments tagged to articles on other sites, it seems to me that the addition of the phrase “only certain” is a bit misleading. There are a lot of supporters/believers, and the Venn diagrams (for Bronco fan and Tebow fans) are not anywhere near congruent.
As far as following the “head” rather than “heart”, is there not innate selection for all of us regarding which evidence we consider most credible, regardless of what we are evaluating? In this case, how else does one exclude his very high college production when evaluating Tebow? All I am saying is that as hard as we try to be totally objective, and no matter how many facts we can find to bolster a particular view, it is our underlying view of the world that ends up interpreting the picture. It seems to me that neither “head” nor “heart” has a lock on objectivity, but only one doesn’t give us the illusion that it does.
As for Tebow, the only proof of this pudding will be time; but until then my own view of the world has a firm grip on my interpretations, and I find myself with Bronco 55- I just don’t find myself betting against Tebow in spite of the oft-cited negatives.
Too verbose, but anything less would make it seem like an attack, and I don’t mean it that way at all.
by idahobronc on Jul 1, 2010 4:53 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
great post Idaho
thanks for the support :)
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
not to mention
Denver has a much better team built around Tebow than the Rams have built around Bradford. Not to mention from the sounds of it, the front office in St. Louis has some serious issues, which is never good for the rest of the team!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
If the Rams or 24 other teams thought as highly about Tebow as you do, he would have been picked higher.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
by McGeorge on Jul 1, 2010 3:23 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
if I recall
he wasn’t picked as high because very few teams didn’t want to work on his mechanics, they wanted a more polished QB, or had a more polished QB.
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
You are correct. They wanted a better QB prospect than Tebow. I’m afraid of his poor mechanics too… He mastered some bad habits at Florida. That is not a good thing.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
There’s numerous HOF QB’s who were knocked for their mechanics. I’m much more curious – and concerned – about decision-making ability.
But, with that said, I’m high on Tebow overall and, in fairness, am a big Gator fan. So I’m tainted. But Tebow is just the kind of kid who I wouldn’t bet against.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
I wouldn't bet against Tebow either but...
I truly think he was a HUGE reach and I think Colt McCoy is a MUCH better NFL prospect…at least as far as being ready for the NFL is concerned.
Tebow will become a fine QB but, it will take a couple years. I hope you guys aren’t expecting him to start right away.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions
no sir
we are aware he’s a project. But I wouldn’t be suprised if he starts next year. Or if Quinn starts next year with Tebow #2
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
Quinn?
Seriously?
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
As I have said...if Brady Quinn is the answer, then whats the bloody question....
We are in BIG trouble is Quinn is starter…say hello to 4-12~
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
Orton is better than Quinn.
Our pass D struggled last year and Quinn was able to do absolutely NOTHING against our D.
Quinn will be your #3 IMO.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 10:34 AM MDT up reply actions
You’ll never find me choosing Quinn over Orton. Orton is flat out better than Quinn. Orton is very underrated, even by our own fanbase. He’ll continue to surprise people.
But, either Quinn or Tebow will be an upgrade over Simms. Good guy but it was painful to watch.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
by SSMT on Jul 2, 2010 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Speaking of Simms....
WTF was last night all about? Busted with weed in his car?
I learned long ago. You have to keep your stash at home. :)
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 10:51 AM MDT up reply actions
I had to convince some Donk fans in the office...
…that Orton would be solid for you guys. What a great trade.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Orton, contrary to what a lot of people believe
is a good quarterback. Elite? No. Good? Yes.
He is no Elway, Montana, Manning or Aikman – but he is solid and will have a long career. He gives his team a chance to win, he doesn’t do anything to negate that.
If he plays awesome this year, it will be hard for the Broncos to let him go into FA. Which will be fine for the development of Tebow to continue, but by year 3 I don’t see Orton starting, more trade bait than anything. Either way I think we’ll prosper.
Although I don’t see Orton sticking around as Orton doesn’t have the same skill set as Tebow, and Orton is not our future.
I like Orton, watched him in Chicago. They should have kept Grossman out and played Orton. They might actually have beat Manning’s Colts back in 2006 as I said before, Orton doesn’t do anything to lose games, only gives his team a chance. Sometimes thats all you need!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
I agree
I just dont see us keeping Orton next season. He’s only got a 1 year deal right now.
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
Don't be afraid
As Elway was recently quoted:
“He texted me when he got to Denver,” Elway said. "I watched him practice. I’ve talked to him. I like him a whole lot. People say he doesn’t have the perfect release, but I didn’t have a perfect release. You can fix that. Those complete passes in college are incompletions and interceptions in the NFL.
“You don’t get better at accuracy in the weight room. You throw thousands of passes. He’s got the natural talent and the smarts. But he’s got to throw, throw, throw.”
I bet Tebow’s thrown 25 passes since I decided to reply to your post.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
by Horsepower on Jul 4, 2010 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I bet Tebow’s thrown 25 passes since I decided to reply to your post.
Haha I love it!
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
Hi 5 ea
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
To all of the Tebow talk, I’m a little late and not necessarily invited to the debate =)
But I just want to make the quick statement that I’m a believer. I don’t think Tebow could have asked for a better coach, with a better resume of working with QB’s than McDaniels. To me, Tebow has the X-Factor. He works too hard, he’s too humble, and he’s got too many other qualities to let something like fundamental mechanics stand in his way, IMO.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
I tend to agree
I’m not sure I want to be facing this guy in a couple years.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
In a couple years?
Yup. I’ll buy that.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 10:53 PM MDT up reply actions
You are right
But I could think of a few guys I’d rather have coaching him, like Holmgren or Walsh wouldn’t hurt.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Just a general addition to the discussion...
Y’all need to factor in Tebow’s leadership skills. McX values this more than certain other teams.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 3, 2010 3:18 PM MDT up reply actions
He’ll be picking his talent up off the turf at the Edward Jones Dome behind that O-line. If I was Bradford, I’d cash that check right away.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
He will cash that check.. They said the same thing about pretty much all NFL 1st round picks, like Payton Manning, Tim Couch, Matt Satfford and Carson Palmer.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
It took Manning how many years to get to and win the super bowl?
9 I think?
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
I will take Tebow over Bradford and Clausen all day, twice on SUndays etc etc.....but thats just me!
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
Good point about Tebow. McD is all in with him.
If Tebow is a success… AWESOME. If Tebow flops, McD will very likely go with him. Brady Quinn is the only wild card here. We need much better QB play in 2010 to be a playoff team that has success. Orton is not the guy to take us there. Maybe Tebow and Quinn are.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
Agreed
I gave McD 5 years when he came in to turn this team around.
Tebow is a big part of it. If Tebow does well, that means McD’s team has done well as a whole. If Tebow doesn’t do well, then Tebow never made the transition, or the team fell apart, either way, that says a lot about McD.
I don’t expect whom I see as the NFL’s top QB Coach to let the world’s greatest college QB to flop. I expect to see a wonderful transition and a miraculous future.
As I said, time will tell, however.
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
McD has three years to prove out. He will either get fired or extended after the 2011 season. Bowlen is not dumb enough to pull a Chicago Bears and let their HC go into the final year of his contract without a clue as to his future.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
McG...that makes no sense...
Pat Kirwan summed it up well. No way McD pulls the trigger on Tebow with out a LONG discussion with Bowlen. SO…there is NO way that Bowlen only gives him 3 years when the 3rd year might only be when Tebow is starting.
You are going to have to get over your vehement dislike for McDaniels. He is going to be here 5 years minimum…..Bowlen sees a great coach in the making and will let McD give Tebow at least 2 seasons as a starter.
It makes no sense to get rid of McD after 3 years….and thats not how Bowlen rolls anyway.
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
I think what mcgeorge is saying
is that McD is on a 4 year contract, so expect an extension or a firing after year 3. I agree about the extension part, but unless the team is in utter disarray, I can’t imagine firing him, but rather letting his contract come up.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 3, 2010 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions
Which is what Mr. Bowlen did..
…with Dan Reeves. I.e. let Reeves’ contract expire.
It is of perhaps interest that our human genetic code is constructed by the exact same four nucleotides as every other form of life on the planet.
My Stroke Of Insight, by Jill Bolte Taylor, Ph.D.
great point
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 3, 2010 4:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Although I agree with your premise about high draft pick =/= sure fire improvement
I would hasten to add that there are complex variables in play there. To start, its generally recognized that DL has the longest time frame until pan out. The first season or two in the NFL for any DL is generally pedestrian at best. Improvement and gaining confidence at the NFL level is a process for the guys in the trenches, and I think this is part of the reason that Dorsey and Jackson haven’t reached the level of play to justify their selections yet…. and they might not (time will tell, but it will take time to tell). As for Albert, he regressed at the start of last season because he played 30 lbs lighter than the previous season and we moved to a ZB scheme, which is significantly different than power blocking and requires quite a bit of adjustment. He seemed much improved over the last stretch of the season (and when I say I see improvement, I refer only to individual players’ skills and overall team cohesion, records and stats are meaningless to me in analyzing a player’s or team’s trajectory). I think this season he will emerge as a solid LT (maybe not a premiere one, but solid nonetheless).
...And as the roar of 80,000 red-clad great plains warriors fills the hallowed halls of Arrowhead, it will strike fear into the hearts of lesser men. For on that field, individual men toil for something greater than individual honors. They toil as brothers-in-arms, as 53 spirits striving towards a single purpose and driven by a single goal: The glory that comes with vanquishing your foes. They will achieve their birthright, they will be champions.
Simple rule of thumb. Rookies that play well in year 1 and 2 usually have productive and long NFL careers (not always, but most of the time).
Rookies that play poorly in years 1 and 2 usually bust or disappoint (like a Ryan Sims). Not always, but usually.
The Chef D-line youngsters are on the wrong side of this equation. The odds of NFL success are stacked against them. Just like the odds favor B Flowers being a good NFL player for a long time.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
MIGHT be a valid generalization
but modern D-linemen always and without exception struggle their first year and take a while to develop. Glenn Dorsey actually had more tackles his rookie year than any other rookie first round d-lineman since at least 2006. Check out the stats. This is what makes any San Diego fan counting on 5th round pick Cam Thomas to step in and upgrade their D-line right away the biggest kool-aid drinkers of all.
by asdqqq on Jul 1, 2010 4:56 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
This is what I was talking about above. DL is a different animal when it comes to first and second year production.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
Dorsey isn’t promising? If you expect DLinemen to come into the league and put up huge numbers in there first two years you really don’t understand the changes they deal with. Dorsey has been among the best young DLinemen after going through a position change and not having much help next to him.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
You feel free to hold out hope for Dorsey… But I watch him a lot and he flashed very very infrequently in his 32ish NFL games. Even worse, he didn’t look any better in year 2 vs year 1.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
I guess you can just ignore his rookie and 2nd year stats then.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
Exactly...
His stats from the first 2 years compare favorably against some of the best to ever play the game.
But, it doesn’t matter. If the media claims he is a bust then, it must be true… right?
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 10:08 AM MDT up reply actions
A Chiefs
fan with a great take! It is possible!
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jul 6, 2010 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Put down the Chef crack-rock. You guys finished the season 1-5 with home losses to Buffalo and the Browns (blackouts in the KC TV market). It’s always the fans that know the most about their team and you Chef fans knew not to come to those games.
You beat a very sucky playing 2-8 or 0-4 Denver team that played a horrible football game that day.
KC finished the 2009 season like crap.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
Funny how you Chef fans avoided this post… I know why..
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
It's okay. I'll address it.
First, the Browns game. Not much to say about that. Our top D-lineman was out in that game which made us rely on Alex Magee who may turn out to be a decent player, is very young and not nearly as good as Dorsey. We gave up 2 ST TDs against Cleveland that day. I don’t know if you watched that game or not but, even through all of that the Chiefs really should have won that game. Had it not been for Jerome Harrison having a record day that day, there is no way we should have lost. Our offense was clicking on all cylinders. It was a very unfortunate loss.
The Bills game, well, I don’t know about that one. It was a close game and we got beat plain and simple. I really thought our Chiefs should have done much better against that squad. Any given Sunday?
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions
Why don't you go read some more Yahoo sports or something.
Sounds like the same uninformed crap that gets spewed by the National media. You probably still think the Chiefs should have drafted Okung, right?
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 1, 2010 9:27 PM MDT up reply actions
I remember how you guys were so high on you 2008 draft… Two years later…. Not so much… Looks like a pretty average collection of players considering you gave away a supestar pass rusher entering his prime to obtain so many good picks.
World Cup officiating reminds me of Bob Slowik's coaching. It’s embarrassing when people in the spot light get promoted well beyond their level of competence.
Not high on the 2008 draft?
We got a starting LT, a budding young RB who potentially could lead the league in yardage this season, a starting cornerback that we snagged in the 5th round who has been solid and a very talented TE who came on strong before the end of last season. Not to mention we still believe that Dorsey will be an upper tier DE in the 3-4. He played very well last year despite learning a new position. (Remember the DEs in the 3-4 are there for stopping the run and tying up blockers as opposed to getting sacks)
I’d say that’s a decent haul for one draft.
Most Chiefs fans would still say that was one of the best drafts we’ve had in many years.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 9:32 AM MDT up reply actions
I think that their play speaks for itself
you dont have to defend those who can put up. It’s why we don’t have to defend Clady. If Charles leads the league in rushing this year I will gladly apologize but guess what…teams no him now they know how he plays and when he cuts. Just like Chris Johnson, teams now have film on him and know how he will be used.
I can make bland homer statements like Moreno will lead the league in rushing too but I don’t because I honestly don’t know!
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
Teams had a season worth of film on this guy from his rookie season
And look what he done did. Murdered em.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Regarding Clady...
He struggles mightily against Tamba Hali so, although I think Clady is a complete stud, it doesn’t seem to matter against our top pass rusher. Hali OWNS Clady. Gave him fits in both games last year.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions
It'll be nice to see Hali and Dorsey abuse that side of the line
What with the 6’6" 325 monster of a man bouncing around on that newly-repaired ruptured patellar tendon. He could very well reinjure himself if he’s placed into action too soon.
Could be trouble.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
how many sacks hurries or tackles do your defensive players have against clady?
considering how many he has given up it cant be too many!
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Jul 2, 2010 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions
I think Hali had 4 against him last year.
“He’s had a lot of almost-sacks and a lot of pressures,” Clady said. “I think he’s one of the best in the game right now.”
-Ryan Clady on Tamba Hali
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
I'll grab the stats later today but
if memory serves me right clady has only given up 6 sacks. If Hali is credited with four of them I will admit defeat there!
There is no doubt that Hali is a good player
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Jul 2, 2010 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions
He had four total sacks against Denver last season — 3 in game one and 1 in game two. I’m not sure if they all came “against” Clady, but I would assume so.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
my problem with things like that
is in our cleveland game outsiders “assumed” Dumervil’s Sacks all came against Joe Thomas when in fact only one of his three did!
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
Went back and watched the play highlights on NFL.Com. In the first game two of the sacks and a forced fumble came against Clady. On the fumble, Clady was actually flagged for holding. In the second game his sack was against Clady as well. That makes three of the four and one of the forced fumbles.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
this reminds me of one of the
“my dad could beat up your dad” arguments lol
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
The game and the stat line may not be the same.
it depends on who they say was supposed to defend him vs. what we actually saw.
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
If you go to NFL.com and look up the stats, underneath the actual play it says “Watch Highlight” and shows the video of the play. That’s what I looked at.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
works
I will take your word for it!
Always liked Hali he is a decent player
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
You can add 5 pressures to his sack in game two
On Clady, that is.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
don't forget the best player we got in the 08 draft
Brandon Flowers
Dear Alex Gordon:
I still think you will be awesome, but for the love of God, please stop getting hurt.
Sincerely,
RF
No shit!
I totally failed to mention Flowers.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 10:55 PM MDT up reply actions
This is an awesome post
Thank you for this. I had the same thought about how each year, every team feels like they could have a great season. But the great thing about the NFL, is that it is possible each year for a bad team last year to be much better this year. Any given Sunday…
"I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Stay Puft!"
Just look at how the Titans flopped a couple seasons ago
1 year they’re great, the next year they stink!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
thanks afeather. It was my pleasure
Any Given Sunday. Good saying, great movie.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
My name is Willie
My name is Willie (Willie Beamen)
I keep the ladies (cream in)
And all my fans (are screamin)
You gonna defeat me? (you dreamin)
"I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Stay Puft!"
Whoa, whoa, whoa... timeout. That's not a limerick. lol
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
PS3 ID: broncomaniac6
Limerick's dont have (asldfjkasdf)
lol
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
The thing that the Raiders fans need to worry about
is what trickles down Al’s leg. It doesn’t matter who they draft or sign, or how much they pay them.They have spent the last ten years finding new ways to suck, why should 2010 be any different? They are one of ‘those teams,’ the guys who consistently make bad decisions on the field, on gameday, in practice, etc.
Leadership is a trickle down phenomenon, and with Davis and knock-out artist Cable at the top, the Raiders haven’t had a good trickle for a while.
I do think the offseason decisions will get them a game, maybe two in 2010, since players can take over the leadership roles to some extent, but unless they wrest the team identity away from Al and Cable, they are just going to keep livin’ the lie.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 1, 2010 2:52 PM MDT reply actions 4 recs
all i can say is wow
way to be classy
if we are one of “those” teams who make bad decisions, why do we have more superbowl wins?
by raiderfan4life on Jul 1, 2010 3:50 PM MDT up reply actions
you are just wreaking with class with that picture you have
lol
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
Here's one of mine :)
http://www.bdougsports.com/bd/Deep_Thoughts_files/jamarcus%20offseason.jpg
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
lol im actually being serious right now
i love that photo, do you actually think i like jamarcus russell lol
by raiderfan4life on Jul 1, 2010 3:57 PM MDT up reply actions
no, no Raider fan does now
but they did! A year ago you would have taken offense to that lol
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
probly lol
how about me posting a picture of john elway getting butt raped by a donkey?? or is that to far? haha
by raiderfan4life on Jul 1, 2010 4:01 PM MDT up reply actions
once again... wreaking with class!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
Very True on all levels
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
with regard to your sig, I just read a book on the Liver-Eatin Crow Killer
and his name is John Johnson (or Johnston, depending on where you look). Don’t believe anything that Robert Redford tells you. However, John Johnson is one of the coolest Americans of all time.
Dear Alex Gordon:
I still think you will be awesome, but for the love of God, please stop getting hurt.
Sincerely,
RF
thanks, I'll look that up
I don’t doubt that the movie has more than its share of artistic license, which is fine by me. His relationship with his world was the main character in my eyes, and you know what ol’ Bill had to say about that… “A rose by any other name…” and all that.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 2, 2010 1:09 PM MDT up reply actions
Nice work, Nick! rec'd
To be honest, the entire AFC West is full of it.
No team got exceptionally better. These are my predictions.
KC may win 5 games (19th offense, 25th defense)
Oak may win 6 games (26th offense, 19th defense)
Denver may win 9 games (14th offense, 9th defense)
SD may win 9 games (9th offense, 10th defense)
Before any other teams fans cry, each team improved their offense ranking (except SD dropped 5 spots) and each team improved or stayed equal on defense. These rankings are based on points scored or points allowed. No jump was more than 6 spots from 2009 rankings.
Stay real, Chef/Faiders/Sparklers.
"You are worthress, Arec Barrwin!" - Kim Jong II
You need less kool aid and more Jaegermeister.
Okay, I’m going to be the douchebag Chiefs fan who’s going to bring this Bronco thread back to reality.
Remember week 17? That was a taste of what’s in store for the Chiefs in the near and distant future. Do you really think the Chiefs are a 5 win team after the way we shellacked (sp?) you guys at home? I mean, you were fighting for your playoff lives and we ( a small market 4 win team with a 31st ranked defense) stomped your guts out on your home field. Our RB (who most of you seem to overlook) could have EASILY broken the NFL single game rushing record in that game even after the no class Robert Ayers (dirty SOB) body slammed him on the field. And you guys were the 6th ranked D in the league at the time. The thing is that he is such a class individual that he chose to give some of the carries to the other guys instead. He will do it to you guys again this season too.
I’m sorry but the Broncos are by far in the toughest spot in this division. Your stud LT is hurt and trust me, he won’t be completely healthy all season. You cut your biggest playmaker and traded away your franchise QB as well as a damn solid receiving TE…seemingly just because they asked. It’s as if the inmates are the ones running the asylum. The best player on your defense is Dawkins who is already collecting his social security and Champ Bailey who is the 2nd best player on your D, is pissed about not getting an extension and has lost a couple of steps himself. All this and you still think your team is going to win 9 games? Seriously? You guys are in FULL REBUILD MODE. Believe that. If I were a Bronco fan, I would be storming the offices with torches and calling for McDaniels’ head.
You guys had a good team built here and Bowlen chose to bring in an inexperienced tool of a HC to replace Shanny (who IMO is one of the best coaches in the league) The Broncos were merely a couple of draft picks and maybe a FA or 2 away from SB contention and your HC has turned your team into… well, the 2007 era Chiefs.
I’m not one to say that the Chiefs are going to win the West or even sneak into the playoffs but, to say we are a 5 win team is a blatant insult and pisses me off. It also shows me that you are not paying close enough attention to what’s going on in your home division. Don’t sleep on us. Our team is going to be quite dangerous this year.
Sorry. I don’t mean to be a prick. It’s just that Orange and Blues comment came off as being pretty damn ignorant to me and I felt the need to correct him.
BTW: Philip Rivers is a pole smoker.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 1, 2010 10:04 PM MDT up reply actions
ok hold on
we got stomped there is no denying that.
We were fighting for a playoff berth because we lacked the depth and ability to win other games.
Those players we got rid of in Marshall and Scheffler were benched by their teammates because of poor attitudes. They may be good players but their headaches were not worth it. As for Mr. “Franchise” in Chicago, He might have talent but he was spoiled by Coach Shannahan telling him he could do no wrong. That wasn’t the way to handle him
If you can tell Dawkins he is old to his face and not crap your pants I might believe you.
I want proof Champ is PISSED. Everything from his camp says he knows we have other priorities and he will wait his turn but wants his turn as well(add to that he is making $13 million this season).
The term tool refers to something you use to get the job done right? a Hammer is a tool for driving nails right? So if Bowlen hired a tool of a coach he must have hired a hammer in McDaniels. And if McDaniels is a tool in the negative conotation than what does that make Haley? Piloi’s Puppet?
To say we were one or two FA’s a draft picks away from SB contention says you didn’t watch us strike out on FA after FA and draft after draft. There is a set of posts here on MHR that detailed how many of our draft picks are still even in the league! Mike was a great coach and a horrible GM and that was his undoing.
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Jul 2, 2010 1:17 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Okay Hold It Right There
In week 17, we were running on the last bit of juice and everyone knew it. Our d-line was largely responsible for Charles’ huge game. Charles did a good job running, I’m not saying he didn’t, but to make it sound like “he ran over the # 6 ranked defense” is totally inaccurate. We were running on fumes and everyone knew it. Chiefs fans are quick to point out Charles’ big game in week 17, but can any of them explain his performance in week 13? He ran 18 times for 56 yards. Not quite the huge blow out game he had in week 17.
We added several good, quality guys to the d-line since the end of last season. Our D-line is arguably the best in the AFC West. The chances of him having that sort of game again are slim.
The Broncos are in the toughest spot in the division? Disagree completely.
Clady is hurt but is recovering on schedule. He should be ready to go by the season start, but most believe he will be 100% by half way through the season, when we start playing division opponents.
We traded our whinny QB who is an interception machine. Our greatest playmaker was traded away, but we gained two very solid receivers. Our offense looks to be much more complete. The ball should be evenly spread this year. That “solid receiving TE” you talk about, yeah we didn’t use him so it’s no big loss. That guy “who is collecting social security” managed 116 tackles and was on the Pro Bowl last year. Much better then any Chief player can say. Bailey has stated he understands that he is not 1st in the pecking order. He knows it’s a business and young, talented players like Dumervil come first.
How exactly are we in full rebuild mode? Because we got rid of a qb, wide receiver, and tight end? Well we got a starting qb, 2 young, talented wide receivers, and our offense doesn’t call for a stud tight end, just a solid overall one. There is no rebuild. Denver is going to compete for the playoffs this year.
That “inexperienced tool” managed to overturn pretty much the whole roster, switch defensive schemes, and implement a whole new philosophy and still win 8 games.
You can get pissed that he said the Chiefs are a 5 win team, but he not the first and certainly won’t be the last to project that sort of ranking. I’m baffled you think Denver is in the toughest spot in the division. KC has just as many questions as Denver, and arguably more. Offensive Line has not improved significantly, D-line is a mess, and you don’t have reliable receiving options. Not to mention the fact that KC firmly believes that McCluster is going to change the whole dynamic of the offense. Fact is that he is a rookie slot receiver who is going to be playing against much tougher competition then he is used to.
I have stated I thought KC will be better this year. I projected 7-9, but it could be much worse. A lot needs to happen for KC to have as good of a season as many on AP believe. I don’t see them making the playoffs. Compare off seasons and you will see that Denver has gotten more talent overall then KC has. That is why pretty much all Denver fans believe that we will be better then KC. I have looked at the KC offense from left to right and there is not one thing that scares me or sticks out as “dangerous”. I’m not saying KC is going to suck, but I think many KC fans are drinking way too much kool aid when it relates to the offense. ESPECIALLY when it relates to McCluster.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
by Nick Cast on Jul 2, 2010 3:43 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
...
McCluster will be solid. Will be be a pro-bowler his first year or even put up big numbers? Unlikely but it’s not about him. It’s about another weapon that we needed. So what happened last season? Our O-line got rushed through and people double covered Chambers and Bowe…well because we didn’t have anyone else.
So now this coming season what happens? We have 2 wide: Bowe, Chambers, McCluster. We have two in the backfield Charles, Jones….You can’t double cover anyone. Too much speed and talent on the field all at once. The Defense will have to respect the pass now without cramming the box making our run more effective in turn making play action better. We have speed and talent. We aren’t just one dimensional anymore. Our O-line did get better only giving up 15 sacks the last 8 games which was a major improvement from the first 8 games. The O-line needs a lot more but they will hold their own unless injuries we don’t have much depth.
Last season what did the defense have to worry about? Charles(8 games), Bowe (12 games), and Chambers (I forgot but not the whole season)…we didn’t have anyone else. All they had to do with put a double cover on Bowe and cramp the box. It also didn’t help we had Larry Johnson the first half. So, like I said it’s not just about McCluster its about having more weapons on the field not making us turn to just one guy in Charles and a double covered Bowe. We are more dynamic. How will the Broncos cover McCluster, Charles, Jones, Bowe, and Chambers? How would you cover and get legimate pressure. Your speed on defense don’t match up with our speed on offense.
Jamaal Charles...Enough said.
Well
The talk on AP is primarily about how McCluster is going to set the league on fire and so on and so forth. I think APers have drank way too much Kool aid when it relates to McCluster. Bowe is still Bowe. Chambers was decent, but not terribly impressive last year. We have a ton of weapons on defense. Champ at 33 is still better then almost 85 percent of cornerbacks. His game against Dallas shows he still has his stuff. Goodman was solid last year. Perrish Cox looks good so far and could be our starting nickel back. Jones and Charles aren’t going to be on the field at the same time. It’s a 2 headed attack, but Charles will get quite a few more carries. Our defense is solid from top to bottom. The key problem for KC is that you did nothing in the off season to stop Doom from sacking Cassel just like he did last year. Our pass rush is going to be better then last year with our improved d-line and KC hasn’t done anything to prepare itself.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
I agree..
On your secondary. Oldies but goodies. Just another year past 30 is never good regardless. That’s what I’m pretty worried about our vets like Chambers and Jones. More so on Chambers though. I don’t agree about Charles and Jones though. There will be packages where they are both in the backfield. Maybe not all the time but it will happen. Doom is a beast but when he played against us last year only 7 tackles and 1 sack in two games. Maybe you are thinking about the Browns game where he had 4 sacks. We’ll just have to agree to disagree :)
Jamaal Charles...Enough said.
So, you're saying the Chiefs won that game because Denver sucks, not because the Chiefs started to improve?
Okay, that makes a lot more sense to me…pretty typical.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 9:44 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm saying
Denver sucked and Chiefs probably improved. But to say Denver didn’t wear down, and Chiefs just drastically improved is incorrect. Both probably happened, but Denver was losing consistently down the stretch because of poor play from the d-line. It killed us. We got a lot more talent and depth this year. Charles’ 200+ yard game is in the past. It’s not going to happen this year.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
We'll win game 1 through the air
Elvis will need to put up another 15+ sacks this season for your secondary to be as good as it was — for them not to show their age.
THAT’s not going to happen this year.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
We’ll do better this year in sack totals than last year even if Dumervil has less, IMO. Ayers has progressed and he’s the 2nd year guy that I look to as having made game changing strides this year. We also have Bannan and Green that will likely have add more in the sack and pressures department than last year’s counterparts.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
Wasn't Ayers in the doghouse in OTAs and TC?
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
It’s easy to think he was from the surface, but no, not really. He’s been getting rave reviews. By all accounts, he’s progressed very well. Then there was some sort of punishment for a couple days. Coach wouldn’t talk about it and neither did Ayers. They said it’s over and that the situation has been resolved. It didn’t have to do with his play. He’s young, he probably missed curfew or something. He’s been a fixture at camp and is said to have improved in coverage and general knowledge of his new position.
Most Bronco fans expect Moreno to be the biggest improvement from the ’09 draft class. I fully expect it to be Ayers.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
Charles’ 200+ yard game is in the past. It’s not going to happen this year.
Count on it.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 3, 2010 3:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Hey Nick, imagine if they extend the season... you guys won't make it then huh? This is the downside of having such an old Defense like yours.
Worn out and tired they get.
The RaiderLaker
The Oakland Raiders, where NFL careers go to die.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
Used to be so. But times change, now Denver has the oldest players on average in the AFC West
source: ESPN 2009
Oakland was 22nd (from the oldest (skins)) and now, after parting ways with Cornhole Green, Justin Fargas, Greg Ellis, Gerald Warren, Javon Walker, et al. and adding more youth – we challenge KC and the other two youngest teams in the NFL.
Having said that, the Saint’s had the 2nd highest average age…
If you’re going to wallow in stereotypes, how bout Raiders dominate Donks (56 wins to 41 losses since 1960.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Jul 3, 2010 10:09 AM MDT up reply actions
What's the stat of w-l
between the Broncos and Raiders from 1975 to the present?
It is of perhaps interest that our human genetic code is constructed by the exact same four nucleotides as every other form of life on the planet.
My Stroke Of Insight, by Jill Bolte Taylor, Ph.D.
What's the signigance of "1975"
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, AL DAVIS! The Nation loves you and the Dolts from the Zoo fear you.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Jul 4, 2010 9:55 AM MDT up reply actions
The Donkeys also will learn from their betters this season
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Jul 4, 2010 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Be sure to check in to discuss the game, then.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 4, 2010 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions
That I can promise, with pleasure
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Jul 4, 2010 2:43 PM MDT up reply actions
See you there, my man!
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 4, 2010 4:43 PM MDT up reply actions
"1975"
Just the approximate year that the Broncos started owning the Raiders.
It is of perhaps interest that our human genetic code is constructed by the exact same four nucleotides as every other form of life on the planet.
My Stroke Of Insight, by Jill Bolte Taylor, Ph.D.
Hehe.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 4, 2010 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions
It’s not a remark to age – it’s a remark to the last five years of ‘talent’ you’ve picked up. Some careers can be resurrected with new teams. With Oakland, it’s where they go to die..
Your organization – hands down – has been THE laughing stock of the NFL the last five years. THAT’S not a stereotype. It’s a fact.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
and getting rid of a great coach, QB, reciever, and drafting tim tebow in the 1st
yep that definatley why were the laughing stock and not the broncos
by raiderfan4life on Jul 10, 2010 3:28 AM MDT up reply actions
Shhh, they don't want to hear that
It’s better to just let it go.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
they deserve to hear it, i thought they were better than chief fans
but im starting to doubt my judgement
by raiderfan4life on Jul 10, 2010 3:38 AM MDT up reply actions
Shhh, you are making it worse
How about this:
Rich Gannon
Jim Otto
Ken Stabler
Fred Biletnikoff
Tim Brown
Marcus Allen
Howie Long
Willie Brown
John Madden
Not to mention the Jerry Rice guy
The Raiders have struggle the past 5 seasons, you can’t argue that, but it isn’t true that the Raiders is where players go to die.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
shhh, the bronco fans dont wana hear that
by raiderfan4life on Jul 11, 2010 1:03 AM MDT up reply actions
Haha yep it's true, but a little logic and fact never hurt
So the next time you wonder over here, make sure to bring a little, never hurts.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Here’s the problem: You look at past decisions as indicator of future success. Those men are gone. You, me, my grandma… doesn’t matter if we like them, those decisions, laugh at them or hate them. Today… week-one those men play for different teams. The question, the challenge is to look at the Denver Broncos with an open eye and decide whether they’re good, great or in between… regardless of what happened already.
Before our new QB outperformed our old QB in nearly every major category people said we were doomed. They’ve mostly shut up now. People now say that we’re doomed without Marshall. My guess is that they’ll shutup soon.
It’s easy one-liners to say that the Broncos are imploding. Lucky you, though, to come here and get more in depth insight. We’re not drunk on koolaid, our team is going to be very good. We will be in the playoffs. You heard it here first :)
Prediction1010
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
Right you are
But I might argue that a number of the Denver fans here are drunk on the kool-aid.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Whether it’s kool aid or not is very subjective. But, sshhhh … some people don’t want to hear that.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
Haha stop taking my shushing!
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jul 12, 2010 11:37 AM MDT up reply actions
hey i didnt say the broncos are imploding
i was just stating a fact.
because of the choking in recent years, im not going to believe you will make the playoffs, but i will say you will have a better record than the raiders, and get your ass kicked at mile high like usual…really you guys lost to jamarcus russell, i know i wouldnt want that happening to me.
by raiderfan4life on Jul 12, 2010 4:22 PM MDT up reply actions
I’ll give you that. Losing to you guys at home was demoralizing enough. To have it happen at the hands of The Hut was the stuff of nightmares.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
By my count, there are only three offensive starters (Kuper, Harris and Graham) that have played more than two seasons in Denver. Same with defense. Champ, DJ and Doom are the only three projected starters on that side of the ball to have played more than two seasons in Denver. So with only six out of 22 starters having played more than two years here, it seems like quite a reach to suggest choking in the past, even last season, points toward choking again.
Yeah, imploding was my word. I didn’t mean to put it in your mouth. Talking about “choking in recent years”, though, is right along those same lines that I was referring to with players who are gone. The same concept applies. It’s true that the Broncos have had historic collapses in recent years, but there’s no cause and effect relationship to suggest it will be a continued trend going forward. It’s not the same players. The coaches are different. The schemes are different. Everything is different.
In many cases, perhaps most cases even, it’s normal and even prudent to compare a team to its previous versions. The Broncos have changed so much so quickly, though, that it just seems silly to make those comparisons, IMO.
Yes, the Broncos choked late in the season last year. It was ugly. But it wasn’t part of any trend. It was done with new schemes, new players, new coaches, etc… You just can’t make an average out of one.
Changes were made to address last year’s collapse. And I would bet the moon that when those changes were being kicked around in Dove Valley, the shot-callers didn’t care even a little bit about anything at all that happened in 2008.
As for losing to J-Russ, well, whatevs. I don’t even care a little :) I read a good question in SI the other day. It was something like, how was Jason Campbell considered the problem in Washington but the solution in Oakland. Hmmm. Campbell does scream mediority by pretty much all accounts. I get that Russel was a problem, I’m just not sure Campbell should be considered a solution. So good luck with that…
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
well shit i recall people saying the same thing about kyle orton
he turned out to have a decent season for you last year
thats pretty much all im shooting for.
everyone around the league has made changes to their team.
by raiderfan4life on Jul 13, 2010 12:54 AM MDT up reply actions
Shanny was a great coach. Over the last 10 years not so much. Great QB? Who would that be? Great receiver – true. Marshall has all the physical tools and right now is one of the Top 5 WR in the NFL. Can he stay out of trouble long enough to be the number one? Is he worth the kind of money Miami forked out? Me says no. I won’t respond to the Tebow jab because he hasn’t played a down yet. I try to wait at least two years for your #1 picks to prove themselves busts.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
That comment was suppose to be up higher … sorry.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
Marshall and LeBron will both
be unable to get a ring.
LOCK IT!
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
why is your name kaptain kirk
im just interested because thats what we called kirk morrison
when he plaed hear, or is it just cause you like star trek. idk im just curious
by raiderfan4life on Jul 12, 2010 4:19 PM MDT up reply actions
He's a Trekkie!
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 12, 2010 5:26 PM MDT up reply actions
we really aren't all that old
Dawkins, Hill, Champ, Goodman are the only real old players. McBath and Bruton are STUDS on special teams and played very well in their limited action last year at safety. They project to be the eventual starters at safety. Perrish Cox looks very good. He could be our starting CB soon. We need one more young corner and we are going to be set. None of our linebackers are really that old. Our D-line got some veteran people this off season, but we still have the young guys we had last year who are 25-28. We have a lot of youth on our team. On the surface, i just appears we are old, but we really aren’t.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
relax, 1970
I expect for KC to win up to 6-7 games in 2011 and I think you’re golf coach will learn the game over time.
"You are worthress, Arec Barrwin!" - Kim Jong II
by Orange and Blue on Jul 2, 2010 7:33 AM MDT up reply actions
Boy, stop.
Haley’s been around the game longer than McDaniels has been alive.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
funny cause McDaniels grew up in a pretty respected football home!so thats what 33-34 years?
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
Oh there's no doubt he comes from good pedigree
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
And the Belicheck pedigree sure isn't help anyone
Look at everyone else who came from it, not really winners. Guess it’s a good thing McD has a little Saban in him, well actually that means he might leave us unexpectedly next week.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
the difference between McD and the others is
Belicheck took McD under his wing and molded him to be a head coach. The other coaches who came from the Belicheck regime weren’t molded, they just left when the opportunity arose.
Only time will tell if McD becomes a good coach or a lousy one. I’m not betting against McD though as he hasn’t done anything to soil my thoughts like whats his face did when he was with us for only 1 year. Cant remember the coaches name now.
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
Well that's not true
McD has said that while he respects Belicheck, his foundation in coaching isn’t from Belicheck, it’s from Saban and his dad. I would also not that while Saban spent some time under Belicheck, he is a very different type of coach. And actually Mangini was molded to be a head coach, spent more time with Belicheck then McD did, a lot more, and had impressed Belicheck from the beginning. Crennel is a similar story, him and Parcells and Belicheck are very close. Both were very high on him, and his ability and football knowledge. These two were probably considered Belicheck’s best “students” and both are very good at what they do, being coordinators, not head coaches. We have yet to see if the same applies to McD, but to say
Belicheck took McD under his wing and molded him to be a head coach. The other coaches who came from the Belicheck regime weren’t molded, they just left when the opportunity arose.Isn’t correct, in both of these cases, Belicheck gave both men standing endorsements. McD hardly spent the time that these two did with him, and while Belicheck respected McD and wished him well, he has done the same with others he was closer to.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
I'm not talking about how he was molded as a coach
I’m talking about his molding as a head coach. Belicheck, after losing their SuperBowl, went to McD and told him not to leave. He knew McD would have head coaching opportunities if he left but asked that he would stay as the OC. When McD stayed, Belicheck agreed to work with McD in detail on head coaching. What can be expected. Philosophies, player development and some things that you just dont know and don’t anticipate as a head coach. How to deal with those types of things… etc. They spent countless hours at night working side by side on just this.
Below is from an article. I believe this same thing was once posted on MHR as well
And, he had Bill Belichick’s assistance at getting ready to be a head coach, according to Jim Trotter at SI.com:
“I had been talking to Bill for a few years about being a head coach, and after I didn’t do any interviews during the bye week in the ‘07 playoffs he said, ’I will help you in any way I can to get you ready for all the other things that go into the job,’” McDaniels said. "Just being around him every day was going to help me from a football standpoint because I could see what he did and how he did it. But he was saying he would help me with some of the things that you won’t really get a chance to witness or understand or become knowledgeable about until you’re in that position.
“I remember when we first came back after our break, that very first day, that very first morning, he brought me into his office and he gave me five pages, typed, of all the topics and things that he felt like I needed to be educated about to become an effective head coach. I’m thinking to myself, here he’s got 10 or 12 days where he can do whatever in the hell he wants to do — we’ve just come off a season where we were 16-0 and lost in the Super Bowl — and the very first day back he gives me this? That was kind of like my bible.”
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
for what it is worth
I am pretty sure BillB gave a similar list to Mangini.
But we are still talking apples and oranges. McD isn’t defined by working under Belicheck. Peterson said it best: “Belicheck was Josh’s teacher, but Thom (Josh’s father) is his foundation.”
Fundamentals are the difference between McD and other Belicheck disciples, because Josh has different fundamentals, instilled in him from his father, a legendary high school coach. Mangini didn’t have Thom for a father, Crennel didn’t have Thom for a father. (Of note is that Bill had Steve Belicheck for a father, who is the source for modern day football scouting methods (studying opponents).)
Belicheck has ‘taught’ a lot of students, and helped many of them as much as he could. But Josh benefitted from it more than most. The idea isn’t that if Josh succeeds that Bill must have helped him more than the others, it is that Josh has a better foundation, and so the help is better integrated and utilized.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 2, 2010 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
touche
very true. I guess Bill Billecheck could have given Mangina and Romeo the same information and worked with them as well. But I don’t recall anything proclaiming it happened… not that it didn’t – it very well could have.
OR
after seeing those two flop and being a product of Billecheck… maybe he didn’t want to see another coach flop linked to his name, thus spent numerous hours and teaching Josh-by-gosh how to suceed as a head coach.
You are correct on the fundamentals, which is a credit to his father as a coach. And you may be correct on everything else, although I don’t have any knowledge and it is speculation at this point. I googled it but couldn’t find anything either, but again, could have happened as you say it may have.
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
We all like to think our coach is "special"
And I think McD may be able to do great things, but we can’t assume everything that has happened to him is unique. Also, it should be noted, that some great, great football minds, like Crennel, Mangini and Nolan, just aren’t cut out to be head coaches. Their first years, they were given some slack for average play, like McD, but over time it became evident that they just weren’t cut out to be HC’s. That is completely fine, if it turns out McD just isn’t cut out to be a head coach, I’m sure he’ll get a great job as an offensive coordinator somewhere, and he’ll make that team an offensive power house. But as has been shown by other great coordinators, they are great in one area, but when they head coach, sometimes they can’t even get their strong points up to par. I think I feel a post coming on…
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
we should also factor in the quality of the teams and ownership they went to
although that says something about them as well…
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: You've come far pilgrim.
Jeremiah Johnson: Feels like far.
Bear Claw Chris Lapp: Were it worth the trouble?
Jeremiah Johnson: What trouble?
by Jeremy Bolander on Jul 2, 2010 11:56 PM MDT up reply actions
it’s convenient to place a genius tag on someone who is a piece of a good or great team. Genius is taking your ability and getting similar results in different situations with diffferent personnel.
I say Mangini, Crennel and Weiss have not proven their genius. We shall see if they are able…I dont see it.
In a similar vein, McD still needs to prove his.
"You are worthress, Arec Barrwin!" - Kim Jong II
by Orange and Blue on Jul 3, 2010 7:01 AM MDT up reply actions
Mangini, Crennel and Weis all changed their teams
As coordinators, just the same way McD did. They sucked as coaches, but in their specialty, they rock. Your thought is a two edged sword by the way, would McD have succeed without Brady, Moss, Welker and a number of other very talented players on that team? Not as likely. Like you said McD needs to prove it, but they have all proven that as coordinators, they are geniuses, but just because they struggle as head coaches doesn’t make them not geniuses.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
MD, you are an odd duck. Your try at “balanced views” seems to over reach at times.
1) I did say McD has to prove his “genius” label for a HC (and BTW, he has obviously changed teams too)
2) Romeo and Weiss have not proven they “rock” as coordinators yet…on another team. This year and next yr will determine if they are geniuses. They haven’t had one year of being a coordinator somewhere besides the Pats.
My feeling is they were products of a system and geniuses; McD has still a chance to prove he is his “own” genius.
"You are worthress, Arec Barrwin!" - Kim Jong II
by Orange and Blue on Jul 4, 2010 8:38 AM MDT up reply actions
I would agree with you there
And I try to be an odd duck sometimes, it’s kind of fun. I just try to not ignore the success others have experienced. Mangini had success as the defensive backs coach of the Ravens in the early 2000’s, you know, that time when their defense was even better. Once again, he was with Belicheck though, so it’s possible his success was relient on him.
Crennel also say a lot of success both with Parcells and alone, working with a number of good defenses in NY, both the Giants and the Jets, as well as the work he did in NE.
So you are correct that they both sucked when they became head coaches, and sorry when I said they “changed their teams” I didn’t mean going from one team to another, I meant left an impact on them as coordinators.
But it should be noted that Mangini actually had a better first season then McD did, but his team struggled the following years. But I agree McD does have the chance to be the best of the bunch though.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
see LJ.
"You are worthress, Arec Barrwin!" - Kim Jong II
by Orange and Blue on Jul 2, 2010 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions
You really want to talk about our coaching staff?
Our coaches have a combined 8 Super bowl appearances under their belt. How many do yours have?
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions
no player (on current roster or jettisoned off by McD) has spoken ill of McD. I believe you had a RB that said the golf thing. I didnt even know about it until he enlightened me:)
BTW, start bragging about SB appearances when it’s your own team that’s been there. Otherwise, it looks quite silly.
"You are worthress, Arec Barrwin!" - Kim Jong II
by Orange and Blue on Jul 2, 2010 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions
You were talking about our coaching staff weren't you? I mean since we are led by a Golfer and all.
I thought it necessary to point out that our coaching staff has 8 SB appearances. We weren’t talking about our team, we were talking about the coaches. Therefore what I said is QUITE relevent.
Sooo, how many do your guys have again?
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 11:02 PM MDT up reply actions
find hope in whatever comforts you.
"You are worthress, Arec Barrwin!" - Kim Jong II
by Orange and Blue on Jul 3, 2010 6:56 AM MDT up reply actions
It's okay.
Turns out we have more.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 3, 2010 4:11 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol
TB, thanks for checking that out. A ridiculous argument is defeated.
"You are worthress, Arec Barrwin!" - Kim Jong II
by Orange and Blue on Jul 4, 2010 8:30 AM MDT up reply actions
Yea, the 8-ring argument is a terrible one
15, on the other hand…
Weis — 3, Patriots – all won
Crennel – 3, Patriots, 2, Giants – all won
Steve Hoffman – 3, Dallas – all won
Bill Muir – 1, Tampa Bay – won
Emmitt Thomas – 2, Redskins – won
Haley – 1, Cardnials – lost
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
8-appearance, rather
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
No problem.
I really don’t see the value in such an argument, to be honest. I want the guys that have new ideas and are excellent teachers. So what if they didn’t luck out and manage to find a marginal role on a winning team – bad teams have good coaches, too. Just like they have good players that aren’t being used properly; Ryan McBean and Mario Haggan being perfect examples.
If we really want to hire based on Super Bowl appearances, we might as well get Dan Reeves to be our offensive coordinator and see how far that gets us.
That said, the only reason I replied to the question is because he asked for it twice and in a fairly aggressive manner, and I felt like obliging.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 4, 2010 9:56 AM MDT up reply actions
Understood
Orange and Blue comment led me to look it up, is all. More of a pissing contest than anything.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
It's precisely that.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 4, 2010 4:45 PM MDT up reply actions
11.
Well, I may be wrong here, but I believe it to be 11…
Josh has 4, 3 wins; Roman had 3 with the Patriots, as well; Keith Burns, who was a Bronco for much of his career, had 2 with them; Mike McCoy lost 1 to Josh and Roman, I’m sure; and Ligashesky, the TE coach, won 1 with the Steelers, I think… he was with them from 2007-09, and they won it in 2008, so yeah, that’s right. Don’t know if I’m missing anyone… but for now…
11. With a 10-1 record. Not bad!
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 3, 2010 4:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks O and B!
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
I heip
the oakland fanbase accept us more in a way
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider
thanks supersport
Appreciate it
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
thanks! Welcome to MHR haha
Doesn’t everyone??
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Like the summary
Don’t think the raiders are going to luck into a couple upsets like against Pitt last year. I don’t know how to read the Chefs think they need a year to get their systems in place. Think the chargers window is closing most of their team is getting up in age. The broncos are a team with many questions but am hopeful that players like ayers and Thomas pan out and that guy that wears 15.
"stand for something ... live with passion ... finish strong," --number 15
I think Raiders have more problems then they realize
Chargers are stupidly optimistic and Chiefs have plenty of questions. Should be an interesting year for sure!
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
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Good job Nick
You’re representing MHR very well on other SB Nation sites. And to do a post like this was original and made it a refreshing read.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
by Horsepower on Jul 1, 2010 11:48 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Thanks Horsepower!
I really appreciate it. I always try to stay classy on other blogs since MHR represents intelligent, poised people. Got to represent! I’m glad you liked it.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
I agree about that Nick. This was a great post.
Makes for a nice lively conversation. I promise you guys I don’t mean any disrespect.
You have a great blog here and your fans are very faithful. If I come over here and it seems I am trolling, I don’t mean for it to be that way. Just like you guys love your Broncos, we love our Chiefs and will defend them to the death.
Here’s to a great 2010 season for both of our teams…even though I really do hate the Broncos. :)
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions
thanks Chief
I think this is a good post because it opens up for great conversation, great debate, and in the end we all learn something. Denver is going to have their opinions, Kansas City will have theirs and so on and so forth. In the end, we are going to know the opponent that much better. Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer :) I don’t think your a troll in any way. Your representing your Chiefs on a Broncos website. I have done the same on a number of different blogs. Here’s to one day, Denver vs Kansas City will be the predominant rivalry that decides the AFC West Championship each year.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Hey Nick..
Ya done good. Rec’d it!
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
thanks ArrowSpread
Appreciate you jumping to MHR and reading the article my friend :)
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Rookies and team expectations
I actually think the Chiefs are the biggest kool-aid drinkers, but qualify that for THIS year…. with details below.
Rookies are all about promise… none of them have proved any thing. In addition, their success is highly dependent on what they are asked to do. McGeorge always talks about whether rookies “flash”, and I think he’s right… so success for a rookie is much about whether you can put them in situations where they can do 1 or 2 things good, but limit their exposure to the huge number of mental errors and transition issues they all face.
As such, rookie QBs, CBs, safeties, and rookie 2-down+ lineman (both offensive and defensive) are likely to struggle unless they have good veterans around them that can hide their mistakes. The exceptions like Clady are exceedingly rare. Alternatively, rookie RBs tend show succcess running, and mainly improve by getting more opportunity
So listening to the views of the various fan bases, here is my take:
Denver:
Our oline is likely to be a big problem. As every-down starters, we’ll have 1 or 2 guys in there that likely will at times be befuddled and absolutely twisted in circles by defensive stunts/blitzes/schemes, veteran “dirty tricks”, etc. That said, Thomas is likely to do very well… my guess is he’s going to be asked to do 2 things 1) run really fast and challenge CBs/Safeties with his size and speed deep, opening up space underneath for Gaff/Royal/etc. and 2) If he can make the CBs backoff, use his size speed on bubble screens, etc. In such a limited role, he could be very successful. Decker is likely to struggle more, because his task is likely to be more complex.
For the non-rookies, Ayers “flashed” a good bull rush and decent strength at the point last year, so I hope to see continued development as he becomes a more everydown player. Orton, and the whole offense, is likely to show more complexity and a step forward as they have a year to digest everything. Royal is an interesting case… as a rookie he largely operated by moving in motion and the slot (avoiding the jam), and really had a fairly limited task of using his quickness to shake the short defenders and serving as an outlet to Cutler underneath… his low YPC reflects that (98 recep, but under 1000 yards)… when asked to do more as a sophmore he struggled. Going back to the slot, and a 2nd year with McDs playbook, is could bring him back closer to his rookie performance. I think remaining average (7-9 to 9-7) is the most likely outcome, and if the rookie oline surprises (possibile, not probable), 10-6/11-5 is a possibility.
raiders
Likely to be improved… but unlikely to be good. Campell is a average/below average QB (maybe ~40th percentile). He’s a big improvement for OAK, but not good. McClain looks as NFL-ready as any LB, but he’s still a rookie, and his speed/health flags didn’t go away. DHB sucked in even a limited role last year, though Murphy/Schilens could progress… but still that looks like mediocrity at best. Oline has big issues, and the rookies have the same problem as in Denver, with less quality vets around them. RB has some promise, but looks above-average at best. D-line looks decent to above-average, but not scary. Nmandi is great, but CJ is getting older and played over his head last year… and the rest is garbage. Basically, if lots of things go right they approach 8-8… if the 2nd year guys don’t progress or other thigns go wrong its another long year on the bay…
Chargers
Not a lot to add to what others have already said. Thomas is likely to do NOTHING this year. Matthews could be good however, because RB is an area where rookies can excel, and Sproles is around to hide his rookie confusion at times (as well as limit his touches). Rivers and Gates are great, but every other position on the team looks mediocre or has big question marks (D-line, O-line, WR issues in particular). In all, still likely to be solid and compete for the division crown (10-6/11-5), but they aren’t leagues ahead of the rest anymore. A few unlucky bounces/injuries and they are down in the 7-9/9-7 range.
Chiefs
I like many of their moves, and like Denver, they will likely benefit from a full year in the new scheme. That said, they are relying on the rookies to do way too much, so I look to them to challenge in 2011 vs this year. While I think TJax and Dorsey could possibly improve (its now or never), Berry is likely to be beffuddled and owned multiple times while he learns… a problem when he’s a key cog in you pass defense. Even with improved D-line play (a big ?), the pass rush is likely to be anemic which isn’t helpful when your secondary (besides Flowers) is young or mediocre at best. The oline doesn’t look good, which negates the strength of the team (RBs). While McCluster could thrive in an eddie royal/slot underneath role, the line isn’t good enough for him to actually get deep, and royal’s success was still unexpected for a rookie receiver… he’ll still be asked to do more than Thomas, and is a lesser prospect as well. Bowe is mediocre, and Chambers is a poor #2. The team looks to have some talent… so they could win a few and play competitive at times… but I question their ability to do so consistently and I have to think 7-9 would be a huge success… more likely they are in the 4-6 win range.
by cjfarls on Jul 2, 2010 9:44 AM MDT reply actions 3 recs
Kyle Orton was an average/below average QB, then he came to you guys and was Average.
Campbell can improve the same way and he is just as good as Orton. No way Orton was/is that much better than Campbell. Now Orton has rooks as weapons lets see if he is that good then. (No Marshall, Sheffler) The only dangerous weapon you guys have is Royal… and that’s it. (Raiders 8-8)
DHB/Murphy/Shilens could progress, wrong! they Will progress. That’s the main reason we see 8-8, Murphy was a rook and damn he did good for a rook, he will only get better this year especially with added chemestry with a competent QB that is not partying or lethargic.
You guys really underrate what big difference Campbell is to Jmarcus Russell. It’s the little things that make a difference. The paying attention and making suggestions in team meetings (not taking a nap in meetings like Russel) The getting familiar with the recievers by going out together (unlike Russell) Staying late watching film… etc. It’s those things that will inspire the team.
You guys are in for a surprise then if you thing we are totally gonna suck or be the same as last year.
The RaiderLaker
Plus finally there is stability with Coach Cable and fiery attitude by our newly hired OC Hue Jackson.
Keep on dreaming we will suck though…. if it makes you guys feel better…
The RaiderLaker
Don't think I ever said they would suck...
I think I said they’d be on the low end of mediocre… and that they’d be improved over last year. I also agree that some stability will help… but KC/DEN can also say that, so its kinda a wash for most the division, except that I think we’ll all catch up to SD somewhat.
6 wins is a practical look at things for you. 2nd yr WRs and a crappy O-line will make Campbell below avg in 2010. Sure there is room for improvement and better timing between QB and WR, but wont happen until at least 2011.
"You are worthress, Arec Barrwin!" - Kim Jong II
by Orange and Blue on Jul 2, 2010 2:49 PM MDT up reply actions
You forgot about Ryan Harris. He’s very good. The interior lineman are OK or question marks at this point.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
Why are we without Clady? Like your Governor, he'll be baaack
Things change, and I’m no Doctor, but projections are he’ll be back for game-one give or take a couple weeks.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a concern. The line is a concern. But it’s a concern with as many reasons to think positively as negatively. I think we’ll be fine. And even without Clady, I’d rather have our offensive line than yours any day of the week :)
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
That's give or take a couple weeks...
…before the 6’6" 325 lb behemoth tests his repaired tendons in live traffic. He’ll almost certainly be favoring that knee and touching down a little more gingerly.
Will it hurt his game?
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Yeah, they think he'll come back all cool 100%. BS!! He won't as I will be wishing against it!
Without Clady, our o-line is better. With Clady your O-line is better, much better. That’s all u got. You blow!! Plus if i were a player i’ll break his knee in 57 places. X marx the spot. (did Darren Sharper say that? I think he’ll jot it down on his hit list as will we)
;)
The RaiderLaker
Your o-line is plain bad
Ryan Harris alone is better then your o-line
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
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That might be the case
but then again they only pass block since your running game is just horrible.
Jamaal Charles...Enough said.
run game was top 20 wasnt it?
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Jul 3, 2010 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions
That's class.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 3, 2010 4:15 PM MDT up reply actions
As a Wash DC resident...
I can firmly say that Campbell never looked as good as Orton did in Chicago in 2007 pre-injury…. A healthy Orton was an average QB in Chicago, and an average QB for us. My hope is with an extra year in the system, Orton can become “above average”.
Campbell is what he is… a legimate NFL starter, but not a good one. Campbell’s a huge improvement over JRuss… but he’s not going to win you any games either. The question is, how many games did JRuss really lose you by himself last year… at most maybe 3 or 4 (which is a huge number)? Remember, by themselves Manning/Brady/etc. probably at best only “win” 2 or 3 games (see Cassel taking NE to 11-5) the team would not have otherwise, so I’m saying JRuss is ~2X worse in a bad way than those guys are in a good compared to the average QB. That puts you up in the 7-9/8-8 range, which I think is very possible… but having watched Campbell for a number of years, and the fact that he’s going into a new system… that means he’ll probably be a “-1” for at least this year… much better than a “-4”, but still not good… I fully realize that JRuss is bad… I’m saying Campbell is P.Manning compared to JRuss…. so I don’t think I’m underestimating that suckitude.
The the “WILL PROGRESS” is why we say that is Oakland kool-aid… I agree, its very possible… but its not a sure thing… same for the rooks and young guys all our teams are excited about.
sorry, that should be Orton in Chicago in 2008...
… I didn’t see any of Orton’s games in 2007.
Campbell is an upgrade no doubt. But, Stevie Wonder would have been an upgrade.
However, your guilty of assuming DHB will progress but that our players won’t (Orton)? DHB was a HUGE reach last year and you are now reaping those rewards. Al got his speedy wideout who couldn’t catch a cold in an ice box.
Listen, you guys are taking a few sensible steps now after nearly a decade of making baffling, team-destroying moves. They will likely start to pay off in a few years.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
However, your guilty of assuming DHB will progress but that our players won’t (Orton)?
Much like Denver fans thinking they’re DLine got much better but TJax and Dorsey haven’t made any progress.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
Are you saying Denver's D-line didn't get better?
Because it got much better and deeper compared to last year. It’s undeniable.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Don’t lump all Bronco fans into one boat based on a few comments about TJax and Dorsey.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
And I would spell “their” right. I promise I know the difference.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
And I’ll use you’re instead of your :-)
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
No concerns about quarterback???
I love me some orange and blue kool-aid as much as anyone – and have since the ‘76 season. I think you’re holding your breath or whistling while passing the graveyard if you aren’t taking a hard look at what could happen at QB this year. Orton was ok, but he just isn’t an inspiring leader. Quinn and Tebow are first year Broncos. We have new receivers and an OL that isn’t in tune with the QB. I know that the QB position gets too much focus, but if it is a position in transition, the results are average at best. McD went out and got a QB (Quinn) that I truly believe he hoped would be able to replace Orton. I honestly hope Tebow is the player to finally fill ole #7’s shoes, but it’s several seasons away before that will be known. If Orton isn’t significantly better this year, I doubt he will be starting at the end of the season. I have no idea of what to expect with Quinn. If Tebow is starting, it’s because the coaches are looking ahead to next year. I think the QB questions will be the cause of a poor showing this year, especially if Orton doesn’t show dramatic improvement.
I agree I dont like Orton
But when your QB throws for 3800 yards while missing a half in 2 consecutive games? Thats not much of a concern.
However, I do feel we need to improve more on scroing with the passing game. We need to increase that 21 total, especially if were gonna throw it over 500 times a year. Also, 12 INTs from a starter aint bad, but a lot of them came in the end, and Orton has got throw less picks, even when he is asked to throw more
I'd like to see how that plays out with Marshall and Scheffler not around...
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
We did not use Scheffler. I don't see why everyone is making trading Scheffler a big deal
We didn’t even use him.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
You're right... And up to this point I haven't even included Scheffler in any argument (I don't think...)
Marshall is the big deal.
Chicago is a decent indicator of how Orton performs without a true #1 receiver.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Chicago is great indicator of how any quarterback plays without an offense around him.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Well I HAVE heard quite a few complaints about Denver's run game around here...
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
That's true
But compared to Chicago’s offensive line and complete lack of quality wide receivers, I think that Chicago has a much worse offense overall.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Probably right about that
And I don’t know that they’ve any positive moves to bolster their OL either.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Nope they didn't
And for a team to run Martz’s system, they need that line to hold.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Actually
What you need is a QB that knows who he’s targeting prior to the snap and gets rid of the ball very quickly. That’s what made Kurt Warner such a valuable asset in Martz’s system while at St. Louis. Coming from the arena league (before he played for Amsterdam,) he developed a quick release because he had to. With such a small field to work with, there is little, if any time for checkdowns.
The problem with Cutler is, he doesn’t have the insane talent at WR that the Rams fielded at the end of the ‘90s. Sadly, they show little promise, which will allow defenses to key in on Johhny Knox and Greg Olsen to take them out of the game. With no one to throw to, Cutler will have more receptions from the water boy than his own receivers. And with a weak line to protect him, he’ll be set to own the season record for being sacked in 2010.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
Of all things Orton isn't...
…an inspiring leader…
This is one thing he is.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 3, 2010 4:18 PM MDT up reply actions
I think the biggest question for Denver is the run game
We can place blame for the collapse pretty much everywhere, but I place it on the running game more than anything. We need to run the ball better, which keeps our D fresh and top 10. It also will not force Orton to win games, which as shown the last 10 games he is not capable of. We saw what a good run game does for our team the first 6 weeks of the season.
Is it the RB’s or the OL? honestly its both. Moreno has to master the playbook and hit the hole like he did the first part of the season. Buck needs to be healthy. We need the interior to play bigger. And Harris and Clady need to recover or we need someone else to step up at those spots, whether they be on the team now or they are a FA.
IMO, if the run game improves, 9-7 will be easily achieved, and possibly a worst case scenario. If not, I will be praying for a bearable 8-8 season. I think this question will be answered in TC, as we will see how the RB’s look in the O and how healthy they are, and we will see how healthy the OL is and how the rookies are stepping up.
The biggest problem WAS stopping the run. The biggest question now is can we run the ball, in clutch situations, more effectively, much more effectively. I agree with you. I hope so. Signs, to me, point to yes.
My biggest compliment I could give Coach, comming from a guy who manages, would be to just say thanks for trying. We can’t expect every fix to work, but I absolutely see the big picture, and I see problems. And I saw him address every one of them. That point just can’t be overstated. Every problem we saw, well, every problem I saw, has been addressed. He worked to get better and made changes in every area that needed fixing. To me, that’s half the battle.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
P.S. I would add that I don’t want it sound as though I think every area is perfect. For example, I would prefer to have brought in additional depth at RB in case Moreno goes down, and I would like to see insurance at the tackle position in case one of the Ryan’s have a setback. I only meant every area has been weighed, measured, and tackled with a fair degree of force.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
I realize stopping the run was a big problem
But as I said, My opinion is our running game was the biggest problem. I dont want to get into a debate about it, but I think if we had a better run game, our D wouldnt have worn down as much as it did
Hey elvisalex, You'll have trouble stopping our pass thidsyear, not only ours, the whole league.
Chimp Bailey is on borrowed time. Dawkins too. Big exploitation places for DHB to basically blaze through his old ass. Chaz Shillens will basically catch over your other 5’11 CB as Chaz is 6’4 220. Our TE Miller will exploit your slow LB’s and be a nightmare. Campbell is way more mobile than Orton and will evade you Blitz or pressure. (Orton will have a nigtmare against us as we ranked 10th in sacks by a D-line or I think it was the whole D)
McClain will single-handedly with maybe a little help from Houston (who I believe is a Gerald McCoy clone= steal in the 2nd rnd.) stop the run. Former Pro Bowl NT/DT John Henderson will play a good role also.
John Henderson > Jamal Williams.
The RaiderLaker
I say clone because they both had identical stats and have the same physique, and combine numbers.
Sorry guys, We’re taking over! lol
;)
The RaiderLaker
that's funny
Every single year I hear the same thing.
“We’re taking over”
“We’re on the rise”
“The West is ours”
Prove it.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
I gotta roll with you on that one Nick.
If there’s a team in the West who is drinking WAY too much Kool aid, it’s the Raiders by far. They act like Jason Campbell is the new Peyton Manning or some shit. That dude is only a step or two better than J-Russ. I’ve seen him in several games with Washington (who has way more weapons than Oakland BTW.) He was way less than impressive. We picked him off 4 times last season when we played those guys and I am quite confident that he won’t be even as effective as he was before he went to Oakland, simply because that’s their MO. They bring in talented free agents and they disappear as soon as they don the Silver & Black.
Also, regarding their draft, they did a nice job of not fucking the team over for the next 4-5 years. (which is a HUGE step forward for that organization) But really, that’s the best thing I can say about it. They didn’t have an outstanding draft, they just didn’t screw the pooch like they usually do. I heard one Raider fan say that the Houston kid was going to set the world on fire in his rookie season. Everyone who knows anything about D-linemen knows that it takes 2-3 years for those guys to make an impact.
Congrats Al on not fucking your fanbase right in the poopchute.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jul 2, 2010 11:17 PM MDT up reply actions
If we had Peyton I would project 11-5. Even with our O-line. (that's how good Peyton is)
All we are saying is 8-8 with Campbell at the helm. so pleace don’t decieve yourself. Don’t try to hide the feeling of concern/fear.
The RaiderLaker
Rubbish
Do yourself a favor and mark your comment somehow so that you can search it at the end of the year so that you can learn from it.
Champ has many years left. Dawk led the team in tackles from the safety position while in a cast for part of the year. Have you seen something to believe they’re walking on a cane, or do you just jump on the echo chamber and shout they’re old, so they’re going to suck. Jamal too. He was elite the last time he played a snap. He had an injury to his arm and got a vacation. Now he’s worse than Henderson? You’re nuts.
You have an improved defense. It should be a good defense, perhaps very good. But you lack offensive weapons. We don’t fear Campbell. We expect him to do what he’s done in Washington.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
Bailey on borrowed time?
Just as a reference point, your Willie Brown played 16 years in the league (one of the worst things the Broncos ever did was to trade him to the Raiders, but enough of that.) By comparison, Champ is starting his 13th.
It is of perhaps interest that our human genetic code is constructed by the exact same four nucleotides as every other form of life on the planet.
My Stroke Of Insight, by Jill Bolte Taylor, Ph.D.
LOL.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 3, 2010 4:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Let me start with...AWESOME POST!!! (Rec'ed)
I will add my 2 copper on how I see the AFC West (Chiefs Fan btw)…
Chargers: The “window” for this team is closed. This was a team that ‘could have been’ great, but was coached into the ground (Letting go of Marty was a mistake IMO). They are still a good team (will compete for AFC West this year), but a “super bowl” team they are not. From this point on I see noting but bad times ahead for the Chargers. SD got my vote for “Drinking to much Kool-Aid”.
Raiders: This is a team on the rise and I expect their record this year will reflect that. A lot of people sleep on their Defense but it ‘could’ end up being the best in the AFC west this year. The new QB, while only “average”, is still 190% upgrade from Jamarcus-The-Hutt but other then his TE (which is is very good at using) he doesn’t have much to work with in Oakland. I downright HATE the Raiders, but somehow Al “The Crypt Keeper” Davis finds a way to make it to the Super Bowl once every decade (but this is NOT that year)
Broncos: Two seasons ago I would have said the Broncos were poised to not only take over the AFC West, but all of the NFL. However, the loss of a F-HoF Coach, franchise QB, game changing WR, and outstanding TE to me means the team has taken steps backward since then. I do like the new HC and think he is rebuilding this team “the right way”. I also belive that in the not so distant future Denver, along with the Chiefs, will be back in contention for the top spot in the AFC West.
Chiefs: Can Cassel be a “Franchise QB”? Did the Chiefs shore up their OL with Lilja, Wiegmann, Asamoah? Can JC/TJ run the ball this season? Will Bowe, Chambers, Moeaki, and McCluster start catching passes and stop dropping the ball? Will our young DL take that next step? Will our LB’s be able to put pressure on opposing QB’s? Is our secondary as good as most Chiefs fans think they are? Can a new OC/DC turn around a team that has won 10 games in 3 years? Most of the experts say NO and that makes me VERY happy. My message to SD, Denver, Oakland, and all the "NFL Experts…please, Please, PLEASE underestimate this team and what they can do!!!
by DivineGrace on Jul 3, 2010 3:39 AM MDT reply actions 4 recs
Some problems with this
However, the loss of a F-HoF Coach, franchise QB, game changing WR, and outstanding TE to me means the team has taken steps backward since then
Shanahan might make it to the HOF some day, but probably not. My guess is he’ll make a lot of bucks in Washington but leave a failure. Time passed him by. Marshall a game changing wide receiver? Not really. He had a huge play against Dallas last year that won the game, but for the rest – he was a lot of sound and fury that signified not much, at least in the w-l column. Just look at his 21 reception game against the Colts – a loss. Broncos won’t miss Marshall at all. And Sheffler? Meh.
It is of perhaps interest that our human genetic code is constructed by the exact same four nucleotides as every other form of life on the planet.
My Stroke Of Insight, by Jill Bolte Taylor, Ph.D.
I can buy a little of that
what really loses me is when people refer to Scheffler like he was something special. He looked good in a few matches but his GAME was off. For a TE he couldn’t block a puppy from getting to Orton. He really struggled running routes and had to play outside the numbers to make an impact in the receiving game. He was too fragile to go over the middle.
Scheffler was not a big loss to this team because he failed to learn the TE position better and complained a lot more than the team capatains wanted to hear!
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Jul 3, 2010 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
RE: Broncos
It was time for Shanny to move on. While he is one of the best Offensive minds in all of football he failed as a GM and the defenses he fielded were historically bad and ranked at the bottom of the league those final couple of seasons. There was no way Shanny was going to fix his defense and make them even slightly competitive enough to take over the entire NFL as you suggest.
That franchise QB sure hasn’t played like a franchise QB for any franchise yet. Sure he has all the tools physically but he lacks in the one area that matters the most, mentally. In order to be a franchise QB shouldn’t you at least have to win (ie: have some success for your franchise)? Cutler seems to only find ways to throw the game away throughout his career. And at his price tag? No thanks. Meanwhile that guy who was considered just a throw-in in the Cutler trade managed to outplay Cutler last year. Not to mention the two 1st round and a 3rd round pick (minus our 5th rnd) that we also collected. It’s very hard to argue that trading Cutler hurt this franchise. We also drafted a 1st round QB and have no need to rush him onto the field given Orton’s upward trending play.
Losing Marshall will have an impact, I admit that. But with his me first attitude (that whole quitting on your team once you reach 100 catches and 1000 yards during the last week of the season with a playoff spot still on the line thing) and the negative effect he had on the locker room combined with being one minor slip up away from being suspended for a year by the league, I’m glad we didn’t give him the type of money he was demanding. He’s a beast when he catches the ball for sure but he has other on the field problems that don’t warrant the highest paid WR in the NFL type of $. My main problem with BMarsh is that he’s really not that good at catching the ball over his shoulder on the run. He tries to turn, stop, and jump catch almost every pass. His 100 catch seasons are also overblown when you take a look at the amount of targets he has gotten. His catch rates stats are not elite, rather middle of the pack.
While his production will be missed, it will also be replaced. Gaffney has shown he can be a #1 for the time being at least (how many yards did he put up on Flowers that week where BMarsh quit on us? 200+) until our first of our 2 first round picks, D. Thomas is ready to take over the #1. This kid is big and tough just like Marshall but faster and can catch the ball in stride better than Marshall. Royal to the slot should help as well and hopefully his sophomore slump was just that and he returns more like his rookie year form. A year in the system under everyone’s belts should only help out as well. We also drafted Decker (3rd round) who dropped a grand total of 3 passes in his entire college career.
Bottom line, for the money Marshall was demanding combined with a close look at all of the other factors surrounding Marshall makes the decision to trade him for 2 2nd round picks a good one. We can now spread all that money around the entire roster.
The Scheffler comment is just laughable. He’s not outstanding as a TE by any means. He cannot block and therefore wasn’t really used last year. He’s shown flashes catching throughout his career but has never remained healthy and is much too fragile. His attitude in the locker room was also horrible and he was heard saying he wished the season was over while in the thick of a playoff race. Bottom line here, Scheffler will not be missed. If he could block and had a good attitude he’d still be here. But he can’t and he didn’t so good riddance. Getting any kind of value for him in a trade means this move was not a backwards step for the Broncos.
Really each of these moves that you cite as reason for the Broncos downward slide were actually all well thought out and correctly executed given all of the circumstances surrounding each move in regards to what was best for the Broncos. You are fooling yourself if you thought that Shanny’s 2008 Broncos that racked up tons of yards but not many points while giving up massive amounts of both yards and points on the defensive side of the ball were anywhere near poised for a Championship run.
We are actually much closer to a championship caliber team now than we were at the end of the Shannahan era. Don’t forget that in the last two drafts the Broncos have had a total of: four 1st round draft picks and four 2nd round draft picks (with 2 more second rounders in next years draft). McD & X’s ability to acquire such a surplus of high round draft picks is going to help the Broncos for years to come. IMO, right now the Broncos are in a much better spot to take over the AFC West (and the NFL for that matter) then they were 2 seasons ago.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by c_style on Jul 3, 2010 11:27 PM MDT up reply actions 4 recs
Cutler sure hasn’t played like a franchise QB for any franchise yet? Realy???
2008 numbers were 86% comp% – 4526 yards – 25 TDs – 18 Int, that my friend is “Franchise QB” numbers.
Last year I said that Orton would have a ‘career season’ and Cutler’s stats would suffer greatly and I was right. The difference was one team had Brandon Marshal and the other team didn’t and if you look at the talent surounding each QB you can see what I mean.
Cutler 2008: 86% comp% – 4526 yards – 25 TDs – 18 Int
Cutler 2009: 76% comp% – 3666 yards – 27 TDs – 26 Int
Orton 2008: 79% comp% – 2972 yards – 18 TDs – 12 Int
Orton 2009: 86% comp% – 3892 yards – 21 TDs – 12 Int
No matter how you look at it Cutler did better with what he had (talent surounding him) year in / year out, and Denver had more talent on Offense then Chicago. Take the talent away (Marshal) and you can expect Orton to go back to his 2008 numbers/stats.
I think Demaryius Thomas is going to be a stud for Denver for years to come, but not this year. The best case situation would be Royal rookie numbers (91 catches – 980 yards – 5 TDs) which is good but only half the TD’s that Marshal got for your team last year. The worst case would be him putting up Marshal rookie numbers (20 catches – 309 yards – 2 TDs).
Is Sheffler the level of TE like Gonzalez, Gates or Clerk…hell no. Is he better then Daniel Graham…you bet.
As for Jabar…he has never been, isn’t, or will ever be a number 1 WR. After nine seasons in the NFL last year he put up his ‘career numbers’ (54 catches – 732 yards – 2 TDs). He is still a great assest even if he dosen’t put up #1WR numbers because he is a “McD guy” that can really help Thomas understand how McD offense works. (much like Mike Vrabel has helped the Chiefs Defense make the transition to “Pioli/Hailey” system)
I think Royal wil be Denvers number one this season with Gaffney at number two and Thomas putting up respectable numbers for a rookie. I think Denver will put up 32-3700ish passing yards and 18-20 passing TD’s as a ‘best case’ sceniro (Still very respectable 12th – 17th place overall in the NFL).
I agree with you on some of your points…
…You did get excelent (trade) value for both Cutler and Marshal.
…McD is outstanding at acquireing draft picks, and I will take this point one step futher to state that he has made quality selections with each pick he had/acquired.
…Shanny’s Defense is what was holding back your team when he left.
HOWEVER, I would submitt that had Mike stayed in Denver he would have had 2 drafts were he could have focused on beefing up the Defense because the young Cutler, Marshal, Royal plus what ever URFA RB he tossed behind his crazy good run blocking scheme would have been more than good enough to put up top 5 stats then and now. In fact, as good as that Offense could have been… a top 15-20 Defense could have taken the Broncos to the Super Bowl THIS year.
That said, McD has done what he NEEDED to do in order for the team to be HIS team. In the long term Denver Ownership/Managment indeed made the right call cutting ties with Shanny to let McD do the damn deal becasue once all the cards are on the table the Chiefs and Broncos are going to be butting heads for top spot not just in the AFC West, but the AFC/NFL as a whole for the next decade! (Disclosure: As a Chiefs fan I think we are going to be on top more times then not during that span.)
I have NEVER in my life seen a QB end a season with an 86% completion percentage
That right there needs to be proven before I will play games with the rest of this post
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
That's horrible.
All of those completion percentages are wrong. I have no idea where he got them – but he needs to find a new source, his current one is lying to him.
For comparison, the NFL record for completion percentage is Drew Brees’ 09 season, 70.6%.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
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by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 4, 2010 10:08 AM MDT up reply actions
*supresses urge to make sarcastic joke*
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
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by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 4, 2010 10:09 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
HA HA HA HA
Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Jul 4, 2010 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions
But it's Jay "rocket arm" Cutler we're talking about here...
…his completion percentage has to be in the high 80’s right???
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
Here are the REAL numbers (Sorry for omitted info/formatting error)...
Cutler 2008: 86 QB rate – 62% comp% – 4526 yards – 25 TDs – 18 Int
Cutler 2009: 76 QB rate – 60% comp% – 3666 yards – 27 TDs – 26 Int
Orton 2008: 79 QB rate – 58% comp% – 2972 yards – 18 TDs – 12 Int
Orton 2009: 86 QB rate – 62% comp% – 3892 yards – 21 TDs – 12 Int
Thank you for catching that Jon Tollerud.
Even with the omitted info/formatting error its still clear (to me) that Cutler can do more given the same talent (a literal team swap) then Orton.
Where do you form this opinion from? Based on the numbers that clearly is not correct....its not fantasy football....and Orton went 9-7 with the same talent and was 5 secs from 10-6 and the play offs.
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
FWIW, in McD's offense, 58% would be unacceptable. 60% - Cutler's '08 - is okay.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
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by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 5, 2010 7:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Doh. What was I thinking...
Cutler’s ’09… that’s not bad. Still threw to many INT’s, but that completion percentage is okay.
Orton’s ‘08 season is what scares me about Orton – staying healthy. He isn’t Bob Sanders, but I feel like he’s a little frail sometimes.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
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by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 5, 2010 7:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Er, one more...
58-62. I like that improvement!
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
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by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 5, 2010 7:18 PM MDT up reply actions
DG - No offense, but you need to learn better math
Cutler – QB rate, down 10 pts. completions, down 2%, yards, down over 800 yards, TDs, plus two, INTs plus 8
You didn’t see the games we did, and Cutler throwing away a winning TD and making it into one of those INTs.
Orton – QB rate up 7, Completions up 4%, yards up over 900, TDs, up 3, INT steady.
How on earth does that come out to Cutler doing better with the ‘same’ (it wasn’t, but let’s leave that for another argument) talent? Don’t use the “it was the defense” excuse – while Orton had the 21st ranked D in 2008, Cutler had the 28th and that was his better year. You might also look at Cutler’s red zone numbers vs. Orton’s in his last year with Chicago – Orton’s QB rating was 96.0 and his 2 minute drill QB rating was 101.8. With a halfway decent defense, the Bears were in the playoffs. Despite Denver’s record, they played like a 6-10 team. You’re looking at yards – look at points scored and it’s a whole new world.
Basically, we’ve all watched Cutler. He has trouble keeping his head on straight, makes terrible decisions and always has.
Gnothi Seauton
by Doc Bear on Jul 6, 2010 2:48 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I believe the point he attempts to make is...
Cutler ’ 08 played better in Denver than Orton ’09.
Cutler ’09 played better in Chicago than Orton ’08.
Looking at the numbers, Orton ‘08 in Chicago was far better than Cutler ’09, imo. 27 TDs to 26 INTs isn’t conducive to winning much of anything.
I’d probably take Cutler ’08 in Denver over Orton ’09, though, going by the numbers.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Doc hit the nail on the head with his last sentence …
Basically, we’ve all watched Cutler. He has trouble keeping his head on straight, makes terrible decisions and always has.
Truer words have never been spoken …
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race" Calvin Coolidge
You won't see me argue against that.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Thanks -
I was serious confused by the way it was laid out. I guess that inadvertently, it looked like he was proving that Orton was a better QB. My own experience is that it is also true. After watching Orton in his first season, with all that goes into that kind of system change, and Cutler making his own changes (and both teams had struggles with receivers and OL, to be sure), I was glad to have Orton. The INTs give me hives.
Gnothi Seauton
All your Cutler love doesn't really matter to the Broncos b/c the bottom line is he refused to be a part of our team
You can’t go into battle with a guy that doesn’t want to be there. He forced his way off the team using the Cassell talks as an excuse and he made it damn clear that he didn’t want to be a Bronco taking it all the way to refusing to answer or return Bowlen’s phone calls. It’s not as if McD said I’m just going to trade Cutler for Orton straight up b/c I think Orton is a better QB. McD salvaged a very bad situation and ended up coming out on the better side of that trade. Orton, two 1sts and a 3rd > Cutler & a 5th.
That’s fine that you think Orton’s #‘s will drop now that Marshall is gone, many do. I however do not. KO will be spreading the ball around much more making it difficult for defenses to key in on one player. Orton and the entire passing game will also be improved from having a year together. It was the first year in a new system for everyone and Orton still put up career numbers. Orton’s numbers have also been consistently increasing each year he’s played. As long as he can stay healthy I think he’s poised for another career year in 2010.
I don’t think Thomas will be putting up Marshall numbers his rookie year but he won’t be targeted as much as Marshall was either. While he may take a couple of years to really turn into a stud that doesn’t mean he won’t be able to contribute to the passing attack his rookie year.
Scheffler is not a better TE than Graham. Is he a better receiver than Graham? When he’s healthy yes, but again you ignore the fact that he cannot block. A TE who cannot block is useless in McD’s offense. Add in that he couldn’t really stay healthy, his poor attitude, and the fact that we didn’t even use him last year and I don’t see how you think that losing Scheffler is any sort of loss for the Broncos.
Jabar did put up career numbers and that was as a #2 WR with Marshall getting tons of throws. You saw what he did against your Chiefs lined up as a #1. All I’m saying here is that he will be able to line up as a #1 and perform well in that role until Thomas is ready to take the #1 spot over.
I completely disagree with you on Shanny being able to shore up the D with 2 drafts and FA’s. He had been trying to do just that for years and was unable to. He was not good at drafting defensive players or bringing in defensive FA’s and he was much worse at running a D (he had yes men D Coordinators who didn’t really run the D, they just were the scapegoats when Shanny’s D completely failed again). If we were just a couple of defensive draft picks and FA’s away from a contender then Bowlen would not have fired him. As I said from the start, it was time for Shanny to move on.
I agree with you in that the Broncos and Chiefs will be the class of the AFC in the very near future, however I think you guys have a further road to travel to get there than we do. The Dolts are on the decline and will soon be battling with the faiders in the cellar. Broncos will soon be back on top of the division with the Chiefs in #2.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by c_style on Jul 4, 2010 10:22 AM MDT up reply actions 6 recs
It will take a couple more years before you can really tell who made out in the better end of the Cutler and Marshal trades...
As of right now (today) I would agree that in both cases Denver will turn out to be a “clear” winner in BOTH trades. I also agree that given the situation (Cutler-Marshal attitude/diva-like-mentality) tradeing both of them away was the right thing to do (In the long term). In the short term you team went from being a top 3-5 offense with Cutler – Marshal – Sheffler team, to a top 12-17 offense lead by Orton – Thomas – Graham.
Reguradless of who is #1 (I say Eddie you like Jabar), #2, or #3 I think this season Denver stat line would be something like 32-3700 passing yards and 18-20 TD’s. Do you think that is low? If so what is YOUR prediction for the Broncos passing attack this year?
If Al “The Crypt Keeper” Davis didn’t pull a one-year-wonder this off season and continues to make smart draft/FA picks then you ‘could’ add them into the compition for top spot in the AFC, although my heart of hearts tells me that will not be the case and they will continue to be 3rd in the division at best for years to come. In the mean time Kansas City and Denver will be dukeing it out for the top spot for the better part of the next decade.
As I Bronco fan, you SHOULD belive your team will be number 1 (and I wouldn’t have it any other way)…but as I Chiefs fan I really do think we will get that top spot first (and more often) over the course of this decade.
I look forward to the AFC becoming a “power division” again where the top team is the one that ‘squeeks’ past their division rivals becase all the teams are just that good. A division that what ever team wins it (the division) is the favorite to “take home all the chips”! Then again I am a homer who thinks with a “Home Team / Division Team (If home teams doesn’t make it) / Everyone Else” kinda mentality. (While I think most fans are “Home Team / Everyone Else / Division Team” types.)
I would also like to say again how AWESOME this post/tread is, as is all who have posted in it. ;-)
One thing: Denver was 16th with Cutler, etc.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
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by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 5, 2010 7:19 PM MDT up reply actions
20th, if I'm not mistaken, with Orton, etc.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
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by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 5, 2010 7:20 PM MDT up reply actions
I need to stop double-posting.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
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by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 5, 2010 7:20 PM MDT up reply actions
And triple-posting.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
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by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 5, 2010 7:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Etc.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 5, 2010 7:20 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec 4 and counting, c_style
Marshall was a great outlet receiver for Orton, much as Orton used Forte the year before. In both cases, the other WRs just weren’t on the same page with the QB and often weren’t open. I don’t worry about that much. It’s a new season, but more importantly, you now have the coach, QB and WRs on the same page, with some experience together. When McD said that players look totally different, it wasn’t just coach speak. These guys know what they are supposed to do in a much more instinctive way.
The two WRs that we drafted shouldn’t be pushed too quickly. It’s a tough jump to the NFL. Even so – they will be a part of things for years, and both look like solid to excellent picks. I love the way that they can stretch the field with Thomas and the way that Decker doesn’t drop balls on the lower routes (or any other). Royal may have his mojo back, Gaffney impressed a lot of folks last season. I’m excited about our receiving corp this year.
Gnothi Seauton
No matter how you look at it Cutler did better with what he had (talent surounding him) year in / year out, and Denver had more talent on Offense then Chicago.
No way. If you’re arguing that Cutler is a better QB than Orton that’s fine. But there are a lot of ways to “look at it” where Orton comes out on top. The first that jumps out at me is wins. Kyle wins and Culter doesn’t really seem to do that so much. His record indicates as much as he puts his team in bad spots by turning the ball over (especially in the red zone). Another example is throwing to the correct team. Orton threw less interceptions in the last two years combined than Cutler did last year alone. That goes a long way toward keeping your team in the game.
Now that I look at this, I’m not really sure why I chimed in. I’m not sure why we’re still debating Cutler v Orton a year later. Obviously Orton isn’t going to chuck the ball down field for as many yards (in the same offense) as Cutler would. Obviously Cutler is going to take more risks and throw a lot more interceptions. I’m just not sure any of it matters. We got what we could (a heck of a lot more than just Kyle Orton) for a player we couldn’t keep. Kyle’s a Bronco and Cutler isn’t.
Same with Marshall. We got what we could for a player we couldn’t keep. Thomas and Decker are Broncos now and Brandon isn’t. Will they step in and step up immediately? Good question. Will Orton crumble to his knees without Brandon if they don’t? Doubtful. Orton and a great defense will keep his in games while we buy a little time for Decker and/or Thomas to make impact and for the offensive line to start really gelling.
We were fine without Cutler even though everyone said we wouldn’t be, and we’ll be fine without Marshall, even though everyone says we won’t be.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
by Alex on Jul 5, 2010 8:16 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Kyle wins and Culter doesn’t really seem to do that so much.
This one always seems to go over their heads.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
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by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 5, 2010 7:21 PM MDT up reply actions
How much of Marshalls catch % is attributed to drops...
And how much can be attributed to bad balls and prayers thrown up by Cutler and Orton with expectations that their dominant #1WR could/would make a play on it?
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Here is a good article using advanced stats that shows just how much the Dolts will be missing V Jackson with side notes showing why Marshall is overrated. Link.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
Interesting stat of the week:
2204 votes, 376 comments, 33 rec’s.
Really a great job of creating some inter-division dialouge, Nick. I think we’ve all gotten a little bit smarter.
It's Alex, just Alex. But you can call me Alex=)
Seriously
I have enjoyed this article so much. It was great for all of us to come here and open up dialogue with division rivals. The turn out was amazing. Almost 400 comments on a fanpost is pretty amazing. Thanks to everyone who has been involved.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
I'm coming to the party late as usual
But all I can say is, WOW. The football in the AFC West may not be the best in the league right now, but the rivalries are as good as ever. Thanks everyone for one awesome thread. Can’t wait to knock heads in the West this year!!!
I like Josh. But I need Ws.
Yep...the other teams fans that have chimed in have been very classy...this has been a great post for sure!
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
Four hundred and fifty nineth!
I'm on a horse.
by craig in calgary on Jul 5, 2010 10:51 PM MDT reply actions
Great Article & Rec'd Nick!
I love this division. I am very excited to see what this season brings and start getting some answers to the many questions.
-Will Eric Berry be ROY?
-Will Tim Tebow develop into a NFL QB?
-Is Jason Campbell going to make a big enough difference in the black hole?
-Will the Chargers still be the best in the AFC West?
So much to look forward to…..
The short answer's....
Yes.
I tend to think “no”
If our o-line can hold then “yes”
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
"think of the solution not the problem"
Job well done....
i thought you hit oakland spot on.
lots of good info here, i’ll have to come back and read about the rest of the afc west..
thanks again….
"think of the solution not the problem"
Man, the Chargers blog is a deadzone.
"Everything is a lie. Except that last statement."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 12, 2010 5:23 PM MDT reply actions

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