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I'm confused... no, wait, maybe I'm not!

I'm confused about some important Broncos issues, and hope maybe some of you can help clear the fog.

I'm confused about the character of our defense.  It seems that for the first six or so games the defense looked tough and physically imposing, kind of like Shaquille O'Neal, but for the last few games played old and slow, more like Ben Stein.  What happened?  What is the true nature of the Broncos' defense?

Star-divide

I'm confused about the stubborn insistence on calling so many screen plays.  Given the high state of preparation and athleticism in the NFL, no play can consistently succeed when the other team is expecting it.  I would think this would especially be true of a play that depends heavily on trickery and misdirection.  When the other team is not fooled, they are going to blow you up, and it would have been better if you had run straight ahead or punted on third down.  Maybe one of you guys that charts plays knows better, but it seems to me that the screen pass was the least effective play the Broncos ran last year.  And instead of learning from our mistakes, we tried to make up for it by calling more screen passes.  A screen play can be a great surprise weapon, but doesn't seem to work so well as a bread and butter play.  What is the value of calling more than three or four screen passes a game?

I'm confused by the people who issue a blanket statement that "the Broncos don't have a quarterback."  I'm even more confused by the fact that they don't want to debate the issue; they just expect you to see what must be blatantly obvious to them.  I grant that Kyle Orton doesn't throw pretty spirals like the guy in Chicago, or have a flair for the bootleg like Jake Plummer.  But the man proved himself head and shoulders above our backup last year, and he wins football games.  Doesn't that count for something?

I'm confused by the attitude that DJ Williams is a ring of honor linebacker.  He looks the part, and he is big, strong, and fast.  And he makes some good plays, but he doesn't seem to excel in blitzing, covering, or tackling.  Maybe one of you who is into fim study can clear things up, but to me he looks like a good player who tends to wear down or struggle with injuries late in the year.  Is DJ Williams going to go down as a great Bronco?

I'm really confused by the overall state of the Broncos.  I know the sky is blue and the sunsets are orange, but I keep hearing that the front office doesn't know what they are doing.  I hear that we are in the weakest division in football, but I also hear that the Chargers are going to the Super Bowl.  I hear that both lines are going to be better this year, then I hear that they're not.  I hear that we don't have a quarterback, and I hear that Tebow walks on water.  I hear that everything is different under Coach McDaniels, but we have a new defensive coordinator for the 73rd year in a row.  I really have no idea.  How good are the Broncos going to be?

I'm confused about the technical issues here at Mile High Report.  It seems like every time I have clicked by over the last few weeks, my computer has frozen up.  Was I doing something wrong?  Maybe, but I didn't seem to have the same problem at other sites.  Does my computer need some sort of new hyper-gizmo to make everything work OK?  I don't know.  In any event, the site seems to be working today, and I am glad to be back, if only for a little while.

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

Comment 78 comments  |  17 recs  | 

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Some interesting thoughts Priestess

But I think for answers we will have to wait till the season starts to find some answers, especially those about our defense and screen passes. I do agree about Williams, I am a big fan, think he’s a great linebacker, one of the rocks of our defense, but he hasn’t done enough yet to be in the discussion for ring of honor.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jul 24, 2010 1:57 PM MDT reply actions  

Agreed

Really we need to see Orton in his second season, and all of the other defensive players for that matter. Even though I haven’t been a big proponent of Orton I think your questions do need a second season. McDaniels was only in his first year. He now has had players with experience in his systems and a full offseason to evaluate and adjust the roster and schemes.

by agentj007 on Jul 26, 2010 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

Only time will tell.

And aren’t the Chargers going to run away with the division and win the SB every year? How has the last part worked out for them. I say forget what you hear. Use your own intuition.

The defense wore down last year, plain and simple. We didn’t have all the personnel in place to completely and effectively run the defense the way it could be. I think we have made improvements there.

I completely agree with the screen pass situation. A few times a game would be ideal, not every 5th play. It becomes so obvious. If I can sit at the local watering hole and figure out when it’s coming, I’m sure the defensive coordinators in the league are able to do the same. My only guess is that it is a high reward, low risk play. But only when the opponent is caught off guard.

The old saying might apply here. If you have three QB’s you probably don’t have one legitimate one. Although with that said, look at Cleveland for example. Whom would you rather have. Orton, Quinn and Tebow or Delhomme, Wallace and McCoy. I’ll take my chances with the prior.

I think part of the issue with DJ is that he has been moved around time after time. He is a solid player with the potential to be a ring of famer. I’d like to see what he could do playing the same position for a few years. He has over 600 tackles in his six years. Not too shabby i.m.o.

Good thoughts and a great discussion piece.

Take my advice, I'm not using it !!!

by grind_core on Jul 24, 2010 1:59 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

If the problem was that our defense wore down...

Isn’t the solution to get younger? Your analysis might be the plain and simple truth, but didn’t the Broncos get more experienced over the off-season? It seems they thought more than a plain, simple approach was needed.

I would still love to hear from someone who recorded an early game, say, vs. Cincinnati, and a later one, such as the home loss to KC, and has analyzed the difference. Was everyone worn down? One or two specific players? Was the defensive playcalling predictable?

Thank you for your thoughts.

"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi

by broncospriestess on Jul 24, 2010 3:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thank you for this...

But I’m afraid your comment is deservedly going to be recommended more than my post!

"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi

by broncospriestess on Jul 24, 2010 3:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

Agreed Doc.

@broncospriestess

Haggan generally looked good, but both Doom and DJ were out of position too often, and that’s both of your right/weak side LBs, so good luck stopping the run.

I think this has a lot to do with DJ’s continual position changes. Finally getting his second year in one location I think this should really be improved alot. Denver fans should expect a lot of of Williams this year. He’s definitely got the speed, size, and talent to make big plays… so now that he’s finally got some positional consistency, those mental errors should be drastically reduced. If not, than I’d expect we’re already seeing DJ’s career peak.

"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery

by Alexander Wall on Jul 24, 2010 4:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

Say what you want about DJ

But his shot on Roy Williams in the Cowboys game was legendary.

Williams himself said he was never hit that hard in his life.

by NYCBronx on Jul 24, 2010 6:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

Oh my, that was so awesome!

My buddy is a Cowboys fan. When it happened we were watching the game and he just looked at me and said “I think DJ just killed Roy.”

I couldn’t stop laughing. That hit rivals the Atwater – Okoye hit.

Take my advice, I'm not using it !!!

by grind_core on Jul 24, 2010 6:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

I dunno man

The William hit was a vulnerable guy in the air – who totally got pummeled.

The Okoye hit was two guys in their element going head to head and Atwater smashed him.

No contest. Atwater.

"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."

"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams

by orange&blue_aussie on Jul 25, 2010 7:12 PM MDT up reply actions   3 recs

Heck yeah!

I watch that before I go to sleep every night! Lol.

"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery

by Alexander Wall on Jul 24, 2010 11:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

You mean this one?

"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche

by Horsepower on Jul 25, 2010 8:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

Talk about lowering your shoulder..

I will never get tired of seeing that.

Take my advice, I'm not using it !!!

by grind_core on Jul 25, 2010 8:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

I still keep it on my HD. :D

"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."

"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.

Quitter's People United Member #18

by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 25, 2010 10:29 PM MDT up reply actions   3 recs

Vicious Hit

Now if he can only complete his game by sidelining a few RBs this season, I’ll be ecstatic.

Thanks for the video!

"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche

by Horsepower on Jul 25, 2010 11:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

If only he could do this to Philip Rivers...

"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi

by broncospriestess on Jul 26, 2010 8:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

Ooooooooooooooooooooooh...

Every time I watch this my stomach hurts. I keep coming back, though.

DJ folded up number 11 like a Walmart deck chair.

"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi

by broncospriestess on Jul 26, 2010 12:57 PM MDT up reply actions  

F'ing sweet

I can’t wait until Football starts!

BTW: No to Chris Paul :p

Quitter's People United member #35

by CombatChuk on Jul 27, 2010 12:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

BTW: No to Chris Paul :p

I man I can agree with! :p

"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."

"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.

Quitter's People United Member #18

by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 28, 2010 10:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

Man, that was a great hit

Folded the guy like damp cardboard.

I’m confused by the attitude that DJ Williams is a ring of honor linebacker. He looks the part, and he is big, strong, and fast. And he makes some good plays, but he doesn’t seem to excel in blitzing, covering, or tackling. Maybe one of you who is into fim study can clear things up, but to me he looks like a good player who tends to wear down or struggle with injuries late in the year. Is DJ Williams going to go down as a great Bronco?

I’m honestly still hoping against hope that he was just moved too often. DJ looks like he should play brilliantly; he had an incredible rookie year; he has most of the skills (although, again, his coverage may not be that good), but he leads the team in tackles yet whiffs on some simple run-tackling. I wish that I knew exactly what it is that DJ is missing on, or missing out on, or whatever. He does look the part, I’ve seen him do what needs doing, yet too many times Denver has needed a tackle or some solid coverage and he just hasn’t quite managed to get there.

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jul 29, 2010 11:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

One point of issue...

Doesn’t KM refer to Karl Mecklenburg?

 I’ll show myself out.

Indescision is the key to flexibility

by akbroncosfan on Jul 25, 2010 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

For some it does

I think the nickname thing is funny cause you get guys who earn them and guys who just get them

Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!

"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown

by Jon Tollerud on Jul 25, 2010 3:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

lol

I like Josh. But I need Ws.

by broncosmontana on Jul 29, 2010 8:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

No worries :)

Yes, the long term solution would be to get younger. And yes, they did get more experienced (read older) but they also got bigger. Also, I should have clarified. I believe it was more to do with the size of our players as to why we wore down more so than age. But when you put those two factors together, then you are clearly on to something. Again, great post BP.

Take my advice, I'm not using it !!!

by grind_core on Jul 24, 2010 4:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

Personally, I attribute the collapse most largely due to a lack of quality depth on the defensive line. That answer is too simple, obviously, as many things go wrong for that big of a breakdown. But I’ve broken down the statistics (don’t have them in front of me) on the secondary. We know they were third-ranked last year, but I wondered if they wore down. The short answer is they didn’t. Their age, IMO, didn’t factor in too greatly. They were consistently a top-ten unit (against the pass) no matter how I broke it down (games won, games lost, back half of the season, first half, etc). In fact, they only gave up a single 300 yard game all year long (Philly). And I didn’t see anything that stuck out in a negative way regarding tackles they made either. Quite the opposite, in fact.

IMO, the line wore down on the defensive side. We didn’t have enough quality depth to combat that issue. I believe that problem has been solved. I truly expect Jamal Williams to be elite this year (like he was last time he took the field), and I don’t expect Bannan to be far behind him. Most importantly, though, is that we kept starters from last year’s DL (like Fields and McBean) as this year’s backups basically. The quality of starters is improved amazingly. The backups are drastically improved as a result. Our depth is quality now. I really have a lot of faith that the issue of having teams run for 300 yards against us is long gone.

23-1. Determination. That which cannont be taught. The reult of finding yourself through adversity.

by Alex on Jul 24, 2010 9:41 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

To add to your post Alex

I also felt that the defense spent way too much time on the field. While thats not much of a factor early in the season, the effects accumulate as the season wears on. In fact, I tend to see that to be true for all the teams, even ones with great defense. I live in Baltimore, so I get to keep tabs on the Ravens and have found that to be true. I don’t have the necessary stats to verify or debunk this. Maybe, someone can make up for me being lazy :)

god created earth in 6 days....on the 7th day, he took a break and created elway

by Bronkos on Jul 25, 2010 2:10 PM MDT up reply actions  

re: "wearing down"

[sorry, slow response — internet problems]

It’s difficult to disentangle problems from the complex context in which they arise. I’m not a fan of using the “wore down” language unless there’s an attempt to provide explanation beyond the allusion to inadequate conditioning. Being wore down and being unsuccessful go together. Moreover, there’s a subtle difference between being unsuccessful because you’re wore down and being wore down because you’re unsuccessful.

I’ve settled on a basic scenario in which our depth on the DL was inadequate as the season progressed, and the last half of 2009 is where the weakness was noticeable. This is when teams learned (in part from our other opponents) that we were vulnerable if we they ran straight at us. Another aspect of the problem was that our own offense was unable to run on opponent’s defenses so we began to lose the Top-of-Possession (TOP) battle thus leading to an inadequate recovery period for the defense. This offseason’s moves pattern after this simple scenario — quality depth was added on the DL, changed were made at ILB, changes were made on the OL.

It’s misleading to think that “youth” is the solution just as being “wore down” in the sense of inadequate conditioning is not the problem. Conditioning issues rarely arise outside of contexts in which effectiveness is also an issue. Injuries are also part of the problem of being wore down and the solution to this is to find quality depth, which we did. Fixing the run defense is conceptually simple since it merely requires adding DLs of sufficient ability and size and then distributing the load more evenly through a rotation, and the greater effectiveness will presumably take care of the problem.

What’s probably been overlooked is how we’ve made changes to our scheme and playbook to address the problem. I’ve speculated that the 2-back sets that we’re expected to employ more frequently are an attempt to win the battle of TOP. And TOP is more a proxy in this case for the physical battles between our OL and the opposing defenses. And we also see this reflected in our running game statistics. Addressing our weaknesses in run defense through changes in our own running game may seem in-obvious but it extends the recuperation period for our DL besides shifting the burden to the opponent’s defense and creates a wearing down problem for them. The last schematic/play calling change that we’ll be implementing is to gamble more on defense. The virtue of this strategy is that it shortens the TOP regardless of whether the opponent’s offense is successful or not. If we’re successful at lengthening our own TOP through the aforementioned strategies then the recuperation period for our own defense should remain long, so both our offensive and defensive strategies are geared towards keeping the time our defense is on the field down, by both shortening the length of time they’re on the field and the lengthening the recuperation interval before they take the field again.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jul 25, 2010 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions   2 recs

I had the same computer issues

Glad they are now fixed!

I don’t think you are confused at all. I like this post.

Adelante, Broncos!

by Chapulin Colorado on Jul 24, 2010 2:09 PM MDT reply actions  

Quite a few folks had problems with the computer issue, regardless of which OS you are using

SB nation was informed and they’re working on it, with their apologies. Nice article, by the way, bp – rec’d! Given the variations of the screen, (Note – there are many kinds other than bubble screens, and all of the screens thrown by Denver were not, contrary to some beliefs, bubble screens) I don’t have a problem with it’s use, but I share your desire for lots of other options. Apparently, that’s unanimous – McDaniels commented during OTAs that they are looking to use much more of the vertical game when passing and become much more aggressive this year on both sides of the ball. I think that a lot of us will feel relieved!

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jul 24, 2010 2:34 PM MDT reply actions  

Think of D.J Willims as:

“A Jack of All Trades and Master of None” This makes him a very good candidate for a 3-4 linebacker, whos range of responsibilties are bigger than the LB roles in a 4-3. They’ve got to be able to cover multiple gaps, stuff the run, drop back in coverage, as well as inside blitz and do all these thing often. They need great range especially when the OLBs play up on the line and attack the QB or contain as Ends. 3-4 ILBs have to be extremely versitle in a 3-4 Defense; almost as versatile as their 3-4 OLB counterparts.

Thats the sacrifice you have to make when you run the 3-4. Because a 4-3 is more straightforward and positional roles are more focused, the positions require much more expertise at specific responsiblities while the 3-4 players have to have a vast knowledge of the defense in their entire area of the field as roles are quite-often interchanged (as is seen in a zone blitz). You get D-linemen dropping into coverage, while 3 of your linebackers attack the QB. It just takes a lot of knowledge and the ability to do a lot of things well.

I think DJ will really shine as a 3-4 ILB, and this second year in the system will really tell if he can translate that knack of being where the ball is to making plays on the field. The 3-4 by far gives each player the prime opportunity to make individual plays in the backfield. The D-Line gets the least opportunity in it because these guys are basically consuming as many blockers as possible so all of the skill positions behind them can not just do the normal responsiblities of attacking the ballcarrier and covering recievers but ALSO attack the QB unexpectedly – with many more options than a 4-3 would give you.

Last year left a lot of things unsaid about what this defense will be. We had hints of what it could be, but expect many of your questions about it’s character to be answered in this 2nd year with about 75% of the players returning with specific knowledge of this system and this D-coordinator.

"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery

by Alexander Wall on Jul 24, 2010 2:35 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

I don't have any problem at all in thinking of DJ this way...

I think he is a good, versatile player. My only issue is with those who see him as Spiderman and Ray Lewis rolled up into one, and I just don’t see it in the limited number of Broncos games I get to see.

"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi

by broncospriestess on Jul 24, 2010 2:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

I've never heard that about him before.

I think DJ has a lot of talent and potential, but with him we all have to remember that he hasn’t played the same position for two years in a row EVER in the with the Broncos. He has never had the opportunity to build upon his performance. He’s been moved to a new position every year because DC’s keep trying to find the best way to utilize his talent in their schemes. This will be the first year that DJ will return to the same position he played the year before and I would expect to see night and day performance from him.

If not than I would expect that we’ve already seen his cieling as a player. However, I doubt that to be the case. I think this year will be his time to shine, especially with his position coach being promoted to DC (a true LB coach who knows how to call blitzes and play aggressive). Martindale had a role in mind for DJ last year and he got to do a lot of things on the field. This year he will get to do even more and expand on his role as the playmaking mobile Mike Linebacker.

We’ve heard from coaches and players alike that this defense is going to get aggressive, so I would expect DJ’s playmaking talent to be on a showcase this year. I would expect them to use a lot of blitzpackages and play calls that give DJ the chance to finally use a years worth of experience to his advantage and follow his finely tuned nose to the ball. If he doesn’t perform like an allstart LB this year than I doubt he ever will. He’s in the prime position and perfect situation to be a game changer. We’ll see how it plays out.

I do agree however on your issue about Spiderman and Ray Lewis. That’s a bit premature, he has a lot of tackles and has shown a nose for the ball (a nose for making a play) and he’s obviously younger and more athletic than Lewis was in his Prime, but what we haven’t see is how good his “spider sense” is. Can he take what he learned last year and build on it and predict where to be and where to make the play? 2010 will tell us.

"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery

by Alexander Wall on Jul 24, 2010 3:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

Wow, lol. I get so into the writing I don't even realize how much it is.

I could do a whole post on the 2009-2010 D.J. Williams issue. Lol.

"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery

by Alexander Wall on Jul 24, 2010 4:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think maybe you should

"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi

by broncospriestess on Jul 24, 2010 4:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

If only I had the time. :D

Who knows, maybe I can free some up in the near future.

"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery

by Alexander Wall on Jul 24, 2010 11:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

Computer problems

I also was getting the page locked up EVERY SINGLE TIME I accessed the site. Then I went to Tools, Internet Options and Delete. Deleting your browsing history might help. Mine works just fine now. Hope it helps you.

If we're ever going to get out of here alive we're going to need some golf shoes.

by MGMarshall on Jul 24, 2010 3:16 PM MDT reply actions  

Yep.

If you put a “0” in days to keep history. Then your computer will automatically delete all of your browsing history evertime you close the window. It still lets you auto-login to websites, and you’ve still got your favorites list, so it’s a handy way to keep your browser performance smooth.

"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery

by Alexander Wall on Jul 24, 2010 4:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

That was got me too.

Floyd Little: HOF Class of 2010.

2009-10 back-to-back NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009-10 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant

by weazel on Jul 24, 2010 5:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don't know who Dwight Howard is...

But I was just talking about the visual contrast between Shaquille O’Neal and Ben Stein in the Comcast commercials. Shaq might be old and slow, but he at least looks like a professional athlete. Ben Stein doesn’t look like one, and I seriously doubt he could play like one, either.

Which is the identity of the defense, is the question I was trying to ask: the one that looks like Shaq (think of a young Shaq, games 1-6), or the one that plays like Ben (games 13-16). I can see that the comparison is less than perfect, so how about changing it to “physically imposing, kind of like Superman” and “mild-mannered and slow, more like Clark Kent.” Or: “physically imposing, kind of like Tarzan” and “gentle and refined, more like Jane.” You get the idea.

"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi

by broncospriestess on Jul 24, 2010 5:33 PM MDT up reply actions  

We get it

Kind of like Arnold Scharzenegger and Danny Devito. Darth Vader and C3PO. The Fantastic 4 and The PowerPuff Girls. Harrison “Indiana Jones” and Calista Flockhart.

Adelante, Broncos!

by Chapulin Colorado on Jul 24, 2010 7:41 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Denver Broncos and oakland raiders.

-Harvey J. Neptune

"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

by HarvJNep2n on Jul 25, 2010 7:47 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think the broncos caught a lot of teams off guard ...

during the first six games of the season, but once there flaw was exposed (run defense, no deep threat, Orton’s injury in Washington (he was never the same after that), and our short running game just to name a few), teams changes there game plan to exploit these weakness and our coaching staff did not do enough and the players did not do enough to compensate for these weaknesses.

This season will indicate how we are doing and where our progression is. Things look really good on paper, but what is on the paper and what happens in reality are two different things.

by isaiahkyler on Jul 24, 2010 7:40 PM MDT reply actions  

the screen

the deal with the screen is that it’s apparently an extremely well-designed play that is almost foolproof, but is also horrendously complicated in terms of assignments. apparently – and I can’t remember the source if where I read this – the Broncos didn’t run it correctly until late in the season, and then when they finally did, it worked great. I imagine it was always almost there and so McD just kept pounding it until they got it right.

by tunesmith on Jul 24, 2010 8:04 PM MDT reply actions  

It was a Woody Paige article at the DP

Sometimes men wear stretchy pants...just for fun.

Pay no attention to rhetoric, especially in headlines...it would just make you dumber

by Welcome2Boise on Jul 24, 2010 8:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

yup- it was woody

He quoted a stat , if I recall correctly, stating the play had worked 39 out of 40 times for the Patriots, but we apparently made a diferent mistake nearly every time we tried it.

by idahobronc on Jul 24, 2010 8:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think McD made a comment about that, too.

"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."

"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.

Quitter's People United Member #18

by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 24, 2010 9:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

Probably where woody got it.

I doubt he would research it himself :)

by idahobronc on Jul 25, 2010 12:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hahaha, so true.

"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."

"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.

Quitter's People United Member #18

by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 25, 2010 10:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

The Screen

I can’t find the quotes I’m looking for, but yes, McDaniels did make a comment about the screen. Summed up, McD said that the team wasn’t quite getting it down until Marshall took one in for a TD (against the Chiefs, I believe…here’s the video of what I believe is that TD…the one where Marshall and McD hug…I think…please help with confirmation!)


Marshall Screen TD

While trying to find the quote, I did find this quote from 2008 in a Q&A with McD after the New England/Denver game. I think it’s enlightening when considered in light of the (not sourced yet) McD quote this past offseason:

Q: Wide receiver Randy Moss joked after the Denver Broncos game about having to talk to the coaches about getting involved in the screen-pass plays. Did he have conversations with you about that?

JM: Sure, everybody wants to run them when they work and nobody wants to run them or have the ball in their hands when they don’t. We have used a lot of people in that role this year. Kevin Faulk has caught them. Wes [Welker] has caught them obviously. Jabar [Gaffney] and Randy [Moss] have caught them. We are not averse to throwing to anybody. Whatever we think is the best thing to do in that week’s game plan based on how we feel the defense will play us and it may change during the course of a game. The guys love them when they catch them and there are a bunch of big linemen out in front blocking a bunch of little guys. When it doesn’t look good and you get the ball in your hands, nobody really wants to have them. We have joked about it. He [Randy Moss] made a really good catch on that play. Wes made a great play on the linebacker [Denver’s D.J. Williams] that was going out there to try and get in the way of the screen. Logan [Mankins], Matt [Light] and the rest of the lineman are doing a great job going down field. It has been a productive play for us and hopefully it continues to do that.

Source

My unprofessional thought: the screen is effectively a run play that gets a receiver in limited space with an entourage of blockers…when run correctly. When the timing is off, it looks stupid and ineffective…much like Denver’s screen game looked most of last year. I think it’s worth running, but the only way to get the team in sync is to keep running it until everyone gets it.

by Disco_Stu on Jul 27, 2010 8:56 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Those are my thoughts, too.

I don’t think anyone complained about it on that play – because it worked. And, really, the same can be said for every other play… we don’t want long balls if they’re not going to work, and we don’t want inside/outside runs if they’re not going to work. People don’t really care what play it is, they just want the results.

"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."

"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.

Quitter's People United Member #18

by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 28, 2010 10:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

Practice makes perfect?

I feel that although McDaniels was sincerely trying to win every game last year he was also using every game as a sort of preseason for this year, working on plays until they worked.

by Dwhite on Jul 29, 2010 8:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

Excellent point. I firmly believe that McDaniels has his eyes set on a long-term goal...

…while at the same time focusing on winning now as well. It’s a delicate balancing act that even Shanny failed to maintain, and at least says something about McDaniels.

I had this nagging feeling in the back of my mind last year that McD didn’t want to show all his cards, and it’s a reaction to my greatest fear this year: familiarity. Not between Broncos, but between teams. The Broncos have been found out now, and the element of surprise that helped us early on is gone – the level of play we displayed last year will have to be raised this year, better execution is an absolute necessity.

As you say, perhaps McDaniels realised this already (I assume he realised it long before I did), and drilled this into the team with constant repetitions – eventually the team will “get it” and we’ll see that better execution. Additionally, I have a feeling (which he’s hinted) that he didn’t want to show his entire hand last year, to keep perhaps surprise teams again this year, which is in essence the basic tenet of the amoeba philosophy – teams don’t know exactly what to expect. This and perfect execution make a deadly combination – as the 2007 Patriots showed.

"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."

"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.

Quitter's People United Member #18

by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 29, 2010 9:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don't have all the answers, but

I do know that Tim Tebow definitely walks on water. Unfortunately the game of football is played on grass (or a facsimile thereof). TT’s water walking seems to have translated to NCAA grass but for reasons that are not fully understood, NCAA grass appears to be different than NFL grass. Maybe it’s the hash marks…maybe it’s Saturdays versus Sundays. At any rate it remains to be seen if TT can translate his water-walking skills to NFL grass.

by SlowWhiteGuy on Jul 24, 2010 8:10 PM MDT reply actions  

I always like to say that most of us come to MHR to learn more than to teach. Although, many times it seems quite the opposite (myself highly included in what might be perceived as a know-it-all attitude in some exchanges I like to get into). So kudos for your humbleness in this post. I could learn a thing or two and be reminded of a thing or two from that..

23-1. Determination. That which cannont be taught. The reult of finding yourself through adversity.

by Alex on Jul 24, 2010 9:30 PM MDT reply actions  

Chargers predictions

I haven’t read any predictions of the Chargers making it to the Super Bowl. I have read quite a few who belive that they will win the AFC West only because it’s a weak division…

But we’ll see how weak it turns out to be!

by Velveeta on Jul 24, 2010 9:53 PM MDT reply actions  

I don't remember where...

But I’ve seen a couple as I just randomly make my way through the internet one click at a time. I’m sure someone here can provide links. I personally am ready for the Chargers to take a fall, and would love to see the Broncos step up this year.

On an unrelated note, I also saw that Kaye Cowher passed away yesterday. That’s too bad. I always thought she was a graceful lady.

"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi

by broncospriestess on Jul 24, 2010 11:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

That's what I keep telling people!

Glad I’m not alone.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jul 25, 2010 1:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

Computer problem

I started experiencing the freeze up on July 10. At first I could read one or two posts before it happened, but then I’d have to reboot. After a few days of this, it froze as soon as I got to MHR. I contacted Bena and kentucky bronco at MHR. No response from Bena but kb tried to be helpful.
I contacted sbnation and described the problem, and got a response from a guy named Chris (cases@sbnation.fogbugz.com) who said they were aware of the problem and were working on it.
On July 16, my computer really froze – I had to shut down and re-start three times to be able to exit MHR. I stayed away from MHR until 7/22. I contacted Chris again in the meantime and was told again that they were working on it.
On 7/22, I tried MHR again and haven’t had any problems. I informed Chris of this and he replied that the problem seemed to be working itself out but that there were still sporadic problems.
There was some discussion about this in the Commenst section of the 7/12 edition of HorseTracks.

The prophet Elijah told Ahab that the dogs would lick his blood, and so it came to pass, as you would imagine, since only the successful prophets are remembered.

by bradley on Jul 25, 2010 4:49 AM MDT reply actions  

Good stuff, rec'd

I agree with your take on everything here except for the “sinking feeling”. I expect us to draft at least one defensive lineman in the first two rounds next year (along with a TE), but I think we have “stopped the gap” temporarily. I think most people by now understand my feelings on how good Jamal Williams will be at the nose, but Bannan is highly underrated too (IMO).

Bannan has been playing in Baltimore beside Kelly Gregg, Haloti Ngata and Trevor Pryce for years. Is easy to go unnoticed and under rated along that all-pro line. We should also note that even with those guys being the big names in Baltimore, Bannan was still no small part of their defense. In 2009, for example, he played more snaps than Pryce and only 30 less than Gregg. In 2008, Ngata was the only DLineman that took more snaps than Bannan.

With Jamal and Bannan in starter slots taking 400 snaps… Fields, McBean and company will all have less snaps this year. We no longer have to play guys like Fields and Peterson for 500 and 600 snaps.They’ll be more fresh during games and as the season progresses. The new starters are upgrades to say the least. Our new backups (McBean, Fields, etc..) are a year improved and won’t be over used or over needed.

That, in addition to replacing Andra Davis at ILB, IMO, has already fixed our problems of stopping the run.

I believe we’re a top-ten ranked defense this year. I think we’ll be good at both run-stopping and pass defense. I would be way more surprised if we don’t rank in the top 15 than if did rank in the top five.
Prediction2010

23-1. Determination. That which cannont be taught. The reult of finding yourself through adversity.

by Alex on Jul 25, 2010 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks Alex

The RDE position is the key to stopping the run. Who will the long term starter be? Marcus Thomas? Ron Fields? Will Ryan McBean move to this position or backup Justin Bannan on the left (strong) side?

There are some unknowns here; since they haven’t been addressed in the draft, it makes me wonder how things will play out in TC.

"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche

by Horsepower on Jul 25, 2010 9:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

Bannan will be the starter on the run-stopping side. Jarvis Green will take the major role on the other side as a pass rusher (although not likely as a starter…. and although pass-rusher for DE in a 3-4 seems like an overstatement).

Neither Fields nor McBean have shown much of a pass-rush specialty. So I think Fields will rotate at NT and RDE. But I’m just guessing there, well, and in all of this. But again, in answer, it’s Bannan that will be on the run-stopping side as starter. Guys like Smith and Green will play on 2nd and third downs on the other side, IMO.

23-1. Determination. That which cannont be taught. The reult of finding yourself through adversity.

by Alex on Jul 26, 2010 12:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

RDE

Our weakness in the 2nd half of the season was stopping the run on the weak side. Some of our opponents’ most successful runs were off of their left guard. The culprit? Kenny Peterson, who was immediately released at the end of the season.

With Bannan manning the LDE (strong side,) I have faith that we’ll hold up there. But who is to say that this year’s opponents won’t test our weak side, to see if we have been able to address it in the offseason?

If I’m Jacksonville and I’ve been watching film of the 2009 Broncos, I’m sending Jones-Drew off my LG all day against a Denver D that struggled to stop the run there last year.

That is why I believe RDE is the key. We know Green will be a pass-rusher coming off the bench, so the question becomes: who will start at that position?

"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche

by Horsepower on Jul 26, 2010 9:15 AM MDT up reply actions  

and Holliday

Both Peterson and Holliday are no longer here.

I liked Peterson’s performance in 2008 but it was one of the few bright spots in an otherwise horrible defensive showing. Still, he was more a DL tweener than a true DE34. Holliday could clearly rush the passer but his run stopping ability was apparently not up to snuff. Having both of them at R-DE made it a double liability in run defense.

It should also be pointed out that Dumervil is on the right side. Since he’s clearly sticking around, his run defense is an issue we should be aware of. It’s been a weakness for him but he’s new at the position and was playing behind DE34s who were also weak in that area.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jul 26, 2010 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'd bet on McBean

He played well at LDE, a position that he is not physically suited for, and when he went down, we started to lose. I’m not saying the relation between those two facts is causative, but it is interesting. With Green helping out and McBean starting, I think that they’d do well. There’s also the option of Marcus Thomas, who liked RDE back during the short ugly 3-4 experiment in 2008.

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jul 26, 2010 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

The question you ask is a great question

I’m not sure I could give a better answer than those two above me. To be honest, I’m undecided. I don’t have a firm opinion yet on who will start on that side.

As I said, I think Green will take the major role, although not from a “starting” position. I’ve been hard on McBean in the past, once calling him the most over rated player we had. I’m no game-tape analyst, but I’ve finally started re-watching games (sort of in slo-mo) and I can only say that I’m starting to change tune at least a little on him. I may have been wrong; He may be the guy. But I can’t give a firm commitment yet either way.

23-1. Determination. That which cannont be taught. The reult of finding yourself through adversity.

by Alex on Jul 26, 2010 1:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

I can always appreciate a definite maybe

I find them quite useful myself ;-)

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jul 26, 2010 2:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

Good questions priestess

although, I don’t agree in total on DJ, you just don’t get a 100 tackles in a year by being average. Did he miss some plays? Yup, but so did the majority of the front seven throuhout the year.

I am really hoping I see fewer screen plays this year, or that when I see them they are productive. I’m really anxious to see if we really have fixed our OL, which, I’m not completely convinced we have. There are just too many questions there to feel comfortable.

"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."

by bchiper on Jul 26, 2010 8:51 AM MDT reply actions  

The Quarterback

I’m sure many here at mhr will disagree (vehemently), but the reason that people think Denver is without a quarter back is two fold:

1. The organization has sent clear signals that they do not believe in Orton as a long term solution at QB. (the draft, the trades, the other needs on the team that were placed on the back burner in order to obtain QB’s). It’s easy to assume that McX is planning for a new route.

2. Settling on a middle-of-the-road QB is no way to get to the Super Bowl. Elite talent at that position is the beginning of most championship teams. Across the NFL, there are teams who either have “the guy”, or there are teams who are looking for “the guy”. Many folks who have actually watched Orton play, (rather than reading his stat sheet) have come to the conclusion that he cannot be “the guy” in Denver or anywhere else. Being better than Chris Simms, and having a winning record are not the makings of a champion in themselves.

This has been debated endlessly here and elsewhere, and most people have made a decision about how they feel on Orton. But you asked why people say Denver is without a QB, and I think I know why they feel that way. I was watching the games too.

by buckhammer on Jul 26, 2010 9:09 AM MDT reply actions  

I partly agree

I agree that Orton isn’t “the guy” but did you read the post I put up, he’s played better then half the guys who have either been to the Super Bowl or won it.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jul 26, 2010 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions  

I agree with you to a point

At the end of last season I did an article about this year…Here it is. Pretty interesting reading I think…it was my take on what we needed to do from January.

Anyhow, like I state in that article, he’s a low-end starting QB and a high-end back-up QB. That’s what Orton is. Does he have the potential to wow everyone and be a stud QB? I don’t really think so, but I’ll cheer for it to happen for sure because I definitely don’t think Tebow or Quinn can do anywhere near as decent of a job this year as Orton can. For me the big thing for labeling a “Great” QB is the ability to put the offense on your shoulders and pull out a win. Not necessarily every game, but just being able to do it every once in awhile. I just don’t see that from Orton at all.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Jul 26, 2010 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm confused too, except by DJ Williams being a ROFer.

The answer is no. DJ Williams is not a ROFer.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Jul 27, 2010 6:24 PM MDT reply actions  

Al Wilson is a ROFer.

Look at our D before and after his departure…..

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The guy formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Jul 27, 2010 6:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

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