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Around SBN: Penn State Recruiting Roundup Is Set For A Big Junior Day

2010 Training Camp Battles

Every year, during the lull between the appetizer or OTAs and the 'meat' of training camp, articles start to filter through the blogosphere suggesting various combinations of players for the 53 man final active roster. This year, many positions are fairly set (or appear to be so), while others are obvious battles that may go down to the last two or three roster slots. This year, the players at OL, WR, CB, and OLB seem to be looking at the most competitive fights. While judicious use of the PUP option may smooth out some things in the short run, finalizing a 53 man roster looks to be a tough set of choices.

That's a very good thing if you're a Broncos fan and want to see an increasingly competitive team each year until Denver makes it (and stays) back into the upper ionosphere of the playoffs. At the same time, it will usually mean that some personal player favorites will fail to make the team, a yearly sense of loss experienced by many serious (and not so serious) fans. There is always the route of the practice squad for some of these players, but the bad news is that to get a player there you have to expose them to waivers first. The good news is that while you're trying to protect your (hopefully) future guys, the other teams around the league have the same set of problems. Unless the player is just too good to pass up and a perfect fit (remember - PS players who don't clear waivers have to be added to the 53 man roster immediately, so you can't just raid and fill up the PS on other teams' best 54-57 players), most teams are busy defending their own choices as much as looking at yours.

Star-divide

Recently, Ivan was kind enough to have posted a group of players who he felt were locks to make the team, and a list of those who would have to fight for positions. It was depressing if you like a lot of new talent from the draft - after his (very accurate) groupings, even though I'd argue a few points, you had this situation. The comments added are my own - please forgive any obvious foolishness:

The players on the bubble: 8 spots, from this talent pool:
1. Tebow - QB - personally, I feel sure that this is a lock
2. McKinley - WR - OK, can you defeat press, or can a stiff wind knock you over?
3. Arrington - RB - How good is that knee, JJ?
4. Jones - CB - lock. They brought him in for his versatility, and Wink wants his CB blitz skills.
5. Barrett - S - bubble. His ST work is good, but 2 tackles and one asist in 2009? He's vulnerable.
6. Kirlew - OLB - bubble. I think that he's got a very good puncher's chance at OLB - see his Tales in a week or two.
7. Willis - WR - PS or gone. If he could have moved to football a couple of years earlier he'd be great. Might have a year left on the PS
8. Olsen, E - OG
9. McBean - DL
10. Stokley - WR
11. Fry
12. Thompson
13. Greisen
14. Alexander
15. Geer
16. McCarthy
17. Smith, Kolby
18. Hall
19. Davis
20. Ayodele
21. Batiste
22. Daniels
23. Duncan
24. Marinelli
25. Arnett
26. Lyons
27. Williams, Landis
28. Ball
29. Overbay
30. Garland
31. Bishop
32. Stehle

I consider Tebow, McKinley (some will argue) and McBean to be locks. That doesn't bode well for those who remain, but keep in mind that some will be injured in camp and even lost for the season. There may be more - or less - slots available, depending on that factor. To cover the entire roster is not my purpose here - I'd like to take a look at the battles that I think will be the most competitive and the most interesting to watch. Whoever is left will be practice squaded (which requires putting the player on waivers first) or just let go. As a historical note, this was the time of year that Bill Walsh considered to be when the best of the best fill out their own rosters with talent that just didn't fit with the systems of certain other teams, but who will fit your own very well. Leaving that end of the experience to McXanders for now as unknowable, the first sets of battles I'll discuss will be on offense.

Offense

The OL

The first and in some ways the most problematic positions are the offensive line and the wide receivers. I'm going to talk about the offensive line first, since it's always been my own belief that this is where you want to start to build, rebuild, reload or maximize a team. Generally, teams carry 9 to 10 OL players. That can be fudged a bit with backups who have multiple talents or who can play multiple positions, but sometimes, as I have felt about Russ Hochstein, you lose some level of skill at one position as you back up multiple slots.

As several folks have noted, with more and more teams moving to a 3-4 defense in some degree or variant thereof (We're currently at about 1/2 the league using that approach, with Mike Shanahan and the Washington Redskins also moving to that defensive approach this offseason), the center and guard positions are of ever-increasing importance. The left tackle position suddenly became both essential and expensive, back in the early days of the 1990's, when Pat Bowlen decided to change the league by opening his wallet simultaneously for Brian Habib at guard and Don Maggs at left tackle, for the simple reason that in general he protected the so-called 'blind' side of most QBs. Perhaps just as important, he's the pivotal blocker on the weakside. While the entire issue of the left tackle's true value is open for some level of discussion, I think that it's worth noticing that Bowlen started the pay escalation into the general area of 1.5 million per year for offensive linemen with guard Brian Habib as much as he did with LT Don Maggs. Centers apparently didn't benefit as much from this move, probably since most pass rushers come (or came) from the outside. Modern schemes, twists and stunts are changing that, and changing the necessary role of the center as they do. As the 3-4 defense is doing the same, I tend to expect centers to be more valued over time, but that's just a personal opinion. Many centers come from being converted veteran linemen, and how that might affect value and scarcity I could not say.

This past situation with the left tackle being substantially more valued is perhaps being brought full circle by the increasing use of the 3-4 defense. More and more teams are also going to some form of a short passing offense, and in balance to that, it's been common in the past to attack the 3-4 defense with a power running game up the middle, which in turn requires a powerful and/or talented team of guards and center. This may lead to an increase in wages for guards and particularly centers - however the money works out, though, the importance of the C/G positions becomes unquestionable when considering how to attack the 3-4 defenses that Denver will apparently see in every divisional game (recent rumors have the raiders going to the 3-4 as well).

Denver showed how much importance they recognized needed to be ascribed to the offensive line by drafting OT/OG Zane Beadles in the second round (pick 45), center JD Walton in the 3rd (pick 80) and Eric Olsen in the 6th (pick 183). Already on the team were hopeful starters Ryan Clady at LT and Ryan Harris at RT, with Chris Kuper at RG and 2009 4th round pick Seth Olsen out of Iowa perhaps at LG. Backups already on the team included D'Anthony Baptiste (6'4" 314 lb, OT) and possibly Dustin Fry (326 lb, C). Nor did the Broncos choices end there.

Stanley Daniels was brought in on May 14, 2010 as a free agent, a 6'4" 320 OL player who has not found a clear home as he spent time on the PS of the St. Louis Rams, Green Bay Packers and new York Jets practice squads, rookie Paul Duncan, a tall, 6'7", 315 lb OT who started all 12 games for the Notre Dame Fighting Irish last year. The team also brought on Chris Martinelli, who some observers consider the best of the undrafted OL: standing 6'7" and 300 lb, Martinelli started all 13 games for Stanford last season, mostly at right tackle. Martinelli is certainly one of the most intelligent of the candidates - he majored in both classics and in economics while at Stanford. Those are not the majors (nor the school) of a player who requires basket-weaving 101 to graduate, but it matches what Josh McDaniels wants perfectly.

Guesses as to which of those 15 players OL players will make the final roster of 53 are little more than that - guesses. I won't go that far at this point - to me, that's what the excitement of training camp is for. Every year some players rise up from nowhere while others who were considered locks will founder and fail. Injuries will play their own role. I will simply make a few notes.

Tyler Polumbus may have a leg up (the pun was unintentional) backing up Ryan Clady at left tackle, but he'll have plenty of competition with Beadles, if not also Baptiste. No one really knows what to expect from Seth Olsen - in the offseason, Josh McDaniels gave one of his Coaching 101 classic textbook cliche's regarding Olsen's improvement over the past year and how the team expects to see good things and useful production from him in 2010, but he's done that the day before cutting a player who was equally praised, so it's not necessarily helpful or meaningful. Clady, Kuper, and Harris are locks if they are healthy, and the news this week was that Harris seems to be doing well so far. It's unlikely that Denver brought in T/G Zane Beadles or C/G JD Walton just to cut them, and hopefully the same goes for Eric Olsen at C/G (I have to admit that of all our draft picks, he is the one that I understand the least) who just signed. Since the team tends to keep between 9 and 10 OL, that leaves an outright donnybrook for the 3-4 remaining slots among the candidates listed above.

Wide Receiver

Another scrum on the offensive side will be the result of the difficult task of winnowing down the wide receiver group to a final 5-6 players. The odds are very good that Eddie Royal, Jabar Gaffney, Demaryius Thomas and Eric Decker are locks for the team. Kenny McKinley looked good in OTAs and has had an important year working under the cruel-to-be-kind eyes of Rich Tuten. For a player who last summer looked like a stiff wind might blow him farther off course than it would the ball, he needed that kind of hard training. Brandon Lloyd has developed a reputation around the league for lapses in concentration and a tendency to avoid hard contact, but his ball skills and his connection with probable starter Kyle Orton could make him the 6th player. Opinions will differ, of course, but those are likely to be the first group players. Eric Decker and even Demaryius Thomas could be on the PUP to start the year, and that could leave slots for two more receivers. In a pinch, Denver could milk Brandon Stokley's shoulder into another PUP designation, but sooner or later, there will be cuts that will end the time in Denver for some fan favorites.

There is no shortage of total candidates: Denver has 13+ receivers in camp, fighting for those 5-6 jobs. A fortunate few could see the practice squad and later, usually through injury to an active player, make the field. Here are some names that may stay or may simply be passing through: Matthew Willis, the former UCLA track star and Alric Arnett, the 6'2" 190 lb rookie from West Virginia who also competed in track and field while in community college, before transferring to the Mountaineers and dedicating his work to football. Former Kentucky WR Dicky Lyons joined the Broncos on May 3, 2010 after spending a brief time on the Atlanta Falcons practice squad last summer, but he has already been released as of Tuesday, July 6. Josh McDaniels has put players on notice that if they want to make the roster and aren't starters, they'd be best off having something good to offer on special teams. UDFA Patrick Honeycutt came out of Middle Tennessee State University as a former 3 year starter, and he finished his career fourth in school history in receptions with 116 and ninth in receiving yards with 1,261. He's the smallest of the candidates, at only 5'9" and 172 lb. Dicky Lyons doesn't have a roster slot at this point, according to denverbroncos.com.

Most recently, ESPN announced that Josh McDaniels wants to move Demaryius Thomas and Eric Decker to the outsides and keep Eddie Royal at the slot. While Royal's move to the slot has been a matter of record since mid-spring, the idea of starting the two rookies on the outside this quickly is relatively new. While I believe that Thomas will be on the outside, and Decker certainly can be, I'd be surprised if they took over starting duties from Gaffney (and either McKinley or Lloyd) this quickly. If it is true, to would show a combined lack of faith in the veterans and/or a lot of belief in the rookies. I'd bet on some use of the rookies with more use of the veterans until the rookis who what they can do. It would be great if it was that fast, but that's putting a lot of weight on very young shoulders.


Defense

OLB

There are two areas on defense - cornerback and outside linebacker - that are also overflowing with possible starters and specialists. While I feel comfortable designating Robert Ayers and Elvis 'Doom' Dumervil as locks for their individual positions (and congrats to Doom for his new contract), there are 13 other players who are trying to make their mark as linebackers for the Broncos. Given the importance of the linebacking position for the form of the Bullough 3-4/5-2 defense, this is no surprise.

Special teams stand-out Darrell Reid is still rehabbing a knee injury, and it may take a while yet (I have not heard anything specific, and I'd be surprised if I hear much to be trusted prior to camp). Former OLB Mario Haggan is being moved to ILB to replace Andra Davis, who has moved on to Buffalo. Mario Haggan has done nothing but put out 110% effort on every down they let him on the field, and he even asked to stay on special teams last season to increase his benefit for the team, something that few veterans will do. He'll be matched back there with DJ Williams, a player who keeps flirting with excellence without actually closing the deal, struggling in coverage and failing at times to make key tackles. Akin Ayodele is yet another player drawn from the Miami Dolphins that Denver feels has potential - I admit that I have some concerns with him, however. His league-leading 17 missed tackles in 2009 and his weak skills in coverage are a pair of areas that leave me wondering exactly why Denver has brought him on, but I'm willing to eat those words should his skillset prove to outplay his reputation. It's likely that Nick Greisen will complete the 4 ILB players that Denver keeps, and I'm going to look at the rest of the players as if they are candidates for OLB, due to a simple lack of other information.

I'll add one codicil - There are players, even if they are few, who make the movement from DE to OLB and, usually from there, move to ILB. On example is Cleveland Browns LB David Veikune. While I'll grant that he's more the exception than the rule, it's always possible that when Darrell Reid returns, for example, his skills might fit better at ILB than OLB. He's not the only one, and it would take a far more thorough knowledge of an individual player's skills during practice than I have to make any kind of prediction, but it's an option that can be explored. It would take him some time to make the changeover, due to the nature of his recovery from his knee surgery, but it's a possibility that I haven't heard much from Broncos fans and one that may end up being a good option for one or more of the Denver players over time.

Much as I've liked and supported DJ Williams over the years, it's possible that he's just played too many positions that didn't suit him to maximize his talents - he seems to keep under-playing his potential. I'll still hope for a good and improved 2010 for him, but at this point in his career, he has to bring the level of his game up. His position is just too important for him to play the way he did much of last year. He's a locker room leader, from what I've heard and read, and he's also a leader on the field, and I give him full credit for both, but he has to stop the run and work well in coverage. Even if they only place one of the OLBs as a backup ILB, since Haggan will only infrequently leave the field right now (his nickel position is also SILB), that might be a solution in the making the to the problem (if what we as fans are seeing here is the level of problem that we believe it to be) of what to do with the RILB slot. There remains the chance the DJ's best role is and always was a 4-3 Will LB. Jarvis Moss seems to be making some inroads on putting his game on the Sunday field, instead of just the scout team. I have some doubts, but I'd love to see him finally making it over the hump and showing that he can have an impact.

One player who came in and immediately made an impact in passing camp is Kevin Alexander. The undrafted rookie out of Clemson brings a perfect record for playing through his college years without missing a single game to injury. He stands 6'4 and 265 lb, which is nearly perfect for the Denver scheme. He was a two year starter at Clemson and is unusually strong, with a college senior bench press of 470 lb. During his senior year he won two team awards - the first as the Rock Solid player at his position (defensive end). The award is given to the player who best exhibits solid, consistent and dependable play over the course of the year. Considering his achievements in strength, it's probably no surprise that he also won one of the team slots as a 'weight room All-American.' Many power lifting players tend to be a bit slow on the field, but Alexander was out there in Dove Valley during OTAs showing that he can blow across the field on STs like the solar winds off the mountains at an autumn dusk.

As even the most casual fans usually know, for a borderline player making the team at all often means making the special teams better, and Alexander had been granted some special teams reps with the first team. Determined to make the most of it, he worked every drill as if it were the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl. Wesley Woodyard tells the rest of the story

As Woodyard recalls, Alexander had earned time with the first team kick-off coverage unit early into the voluntary workout. As some players bowed out of the drill, the Clemson product kept hustling.

Soon, Alexander was taking every rep, sprinting downfield with game-like intensity during the non-contact drill. After reaching the other end of the field, the linebacker readied to do it all again.For Woodyard, a former college free agent who rose to become a captain in his second season as a Bronco, it was a refreshing sight. Here, he thought, was a youngster who understands what it takes to be a pro.

"You have to admire a guy like him -- any guy in our situation that comes in and continues to fight every day," Woodyard said. "The thing about him, he was really smart. That caught a lot of players' eyes."
By all accounts, Alexander kept that attitude and only continued that hard work through OTAs. Recently, the 6-foot-4, 265-pound linebacker started reaping the rewards.
Alexander saw extensive action with the first-team defense during the team's recently completed mandatory minicamp. With more than a month to wait before his first training camp, Alexander hopes he can parlay his early impact into a spot on the 53-man roster.

Nor is Alexander the only player who feels that his hard work could create his own position on the team. Long-time struggling LB player Jarvis Moss earned himself some reps with the 1st team during passing camp, a big step up from the award as MVP of the scout team that he earned last year. It's possible that the combination of the right position in the NFL world for him (OLB) has combined with time in relatively good health and constant effort under the tutelage of Rich Tuten to have gotten a career that was clearly headed south (and I'm not talking about Houston here) and gotten it back on track. The Broncos need more push toward the QB in order for their 5-2 defense to work at maximum efficiency, so seeing if Moss can show some pass rushing technique to go with his speed, that might finally give the 6'7, 257 lb rusher a place out on the field on Sundays.

Woodyard himself, in addition to earning a team captain position in only his second year, has also been active under Tuten and is currently up to at least 228 lb, with a goal of 236 lb by the end of training camp. Woodyard often struggled in coverage last season, particularly with larger receivers. Since he was often in on the nickel package, that frequently meant the opposing TEs, who might have as much as 40 lb on him. Whatever his final weight, he has to develop the strength and the technique to handle those players in order to hold on to his slot from last year. Another smaller LB is Devin Bishop, a 239 lb UDFA out of California. Bishop comes from a football family: his brother plays for the Green Bay Packers and his father, Dennis, used to play in the new-defunct USFL. 

A player who is working against the odds, but who quickly showed that he may have some newly developed skills to offer is Baraka Atkins. Like Elvis Dumervil and Darrell Reid, Atkins was a defensive lineman who played both defensive tackle and end while at the University of Miami. He has been in the NFL for 3 seasons with San Francisco in 2007 and Seattle in 2008 and 2009 and had made few inroads towards developing playing time when Josh McDaniels and Brian Xanders placed him under a futures contract and began helping him make the switch from DL to OLB. He's even earned some first team reps during OTAs and it will be well worth seeing how that pans out in training camp.

Some fans are already mentally moving Jammie Kirlew to the practice squad in their minds and in their posts, but that may be premature. Granting that in a crowded class at his position - and he is a classic 'tweener, built for the 3-4 OLB - Kirlew fell to the 7th round, he still came into the draft with a 5th round grade by Denver, and he has the kind of background that might fit in well with Denver's needs as much as its scheme. Jammie (pronounced as JAY-mee) is a 6'3", 260 lb player, one whom the denverbroncos.com website described as : "A linebacker who twice received All-Big Ten Conference recognition at Indiana University, where as a defensive end he tied for third on the school's all-time sacks list (23) and tied for second on its all-time tackles for loss list (52.5)." A player who can get to the backfield that well, and who will not be matched up against offensive tackles once he's learned his new position, might be able to push a higher-drafted or more experienced player right out of his way. Denver is looking at running an aggressive defense, and Kirlew may be a solid fit for Martindale's go-get-them schematic approach. Also a very bright student, Kirlew brings a degree in public finance and the ability to learn well along with his football skills.

A third round pick in 2008 by Pittsburgh, who spent 2009 on New England's practice squad is 2nd year player Bruce Davis. Davis is a long-shot at 6'3 and 252 lb, but stranger things have happened. He came out of UCLA where he ended his career tied for second on the school's all-time sack list with 29, again reflecting the damage that Denver could do with a minor version of Doom on the other side when defending passing downs.

And finally, while still listed as a LB/FB, Spencer Larsen really looks like he's embedded into the fullback slot with ST play at this point. He didn't take a single defensive rep during OTAs, and FB Kyle Eckel has already come and gone to a medical-injured waiver/settlement. Marquez Branson is listed as a TE, and in theory he may share the occasional FB rep with Larsen. In practice, I've found that McDaniels tends to go with experience, so I expect Larsen to be the FB and Branson to step in only if there's an injury, but that's just my opinion.

Cornerback

There are currently 8 players working for the 5-6 slots alloted for cornerback, and this competition may be one of the hottest of the camp. I think that most folks accept that Champ Bailey will make the roster, and his work last year convinced me (even if I wish that he'd learn to tackle better) that Andre' Goodman will be joining him. Nate Jones was brought in to handle (or fight for) the nickel slot and to use his unusual skill at CB blitzes to make Wink Martindale a happy man. Beyond those three, though, the choices get far more difficult.

There's no question that Alphonso Smith will be under a training camp microscope by both those who do and don't hope that he turns his career around this year. He is said to have worked hard in the off-season and is approaching this camp as a professional does, blaming only himself for his lack of performance last year. He's going to be likely to be pushed by rookie Perrish Cox, who has made waves in passing camp, but who has yet to meet his fellow teammates, much less Denver's opponents, with pads on. Cox fell a long way on character issues, but he's a 6'0" 198 lb player who is more quick than fast, but who intercepted 10 passes and broke up 36 during his time at Oklahoma State University. He only had a 32.5 inch vertical leap, but he times it nicely. He has the strength to be a press cornerback, but only timed at 4.6 at Combine although he seemed to lay faster, at least at the college level. Cox was a three year starter who, in his senior year, earned first-team All-Big 12 Conference honors on defense and garnered All-America recognition for his ability on special teams, where he scored six touchdowns (4 kickoff, 2 punt) during his collegiate career. That special teams skill is something that we know that the McDaniels team is looking for. He's a decent tackler, but not a 'big hitter' - his play won't scare anyone on that end. However, he might be pushing to mitigate that by the intensity of his ST play.

The next three are probably the ones fighting the most uphill battles. Tony Carter came in last year and did well at nickel in limited play - he'll have the potential advantage of being a known quantity. He's up against another 7th round pick with a 5th round grade in Syd'Quan Thompson, the 5'9", 191 lb player out of California who was taken just before Jammie Kirlew. Thompson is a cypher, but a unique player who set a record by starting all 52 games of his career. He broke up a school-record 36 career passes in addition to posting seven interceptions, 257 tackles (166 solo) and 20 tackles for a loss during his career. He has some special teams experience, but did not impress in that area during passing camp.

Finally, a rookie UDFA out of the University of Mississippi named Cassius Vaughn, was just behind him in experience and started 50 games in his time there. He managed an exceptional 152 tackles (107 solo), five interceptions, 20 pass breakups and two forced fumbles during that time. He's taller, at 5'11 and 195 lb and has unusual speed with a low time of 4.36 and a high time of 4.49 at Combine. He had a 10 foot, 8 inch broad jump and a 38.5 inch vertical leap, so he has a powerful explosion and is athletic as well. I don't know if he can play at the higher level of competition that is found in the NFL, but he was unquestionably a very effective player at the college level.

One factor in the competition at CB may not rest with the candidates at all, but with the safety position. As SlowWhiteGuy recently pointed out, to play a dime package at all, Denver will need at least 4 active CBs and one more to cover them in case of an injury during a game. Similarly, they need to have 3 safeties on hand to play the 'big nickel', and again, another to cover in case of injury. There alone, you have 9 defensive backs, and Denver also has the question of Josh Barrett - he did so little other than special teams last season, notching only 2 tackles and one assist, that I see him as vulnerable if someone can outplay him in the nickel or outplay him on special teams. The question Denver faces here is whether to hold on to only 9 DBs (Denver is fortunate in that there are some already on the team, like Saf Renaldo Hill and CB Nate Jones, who can cover either CB or safety, or they choose to hold on to 10). Generally the issue of quality of special teams play will play a heavy role in making such a decision, as Josh McDaniels has pointed out. Once in a great while, an additional special teams player of great skill will change these numbers but such cases are relatively rare.

Conclusion

As far as I'm concerned, the Denver Broncos have the most interesting, competitive and toughest camp coming up that I can recall. There really isn't a position that doesn't have a competition, whether it's for quarterback, tight end, or any of the positions listed above, with the sole exceptions of the kickers and long snapper. If you're going to change the quality of the players and the culture in the locker room, there will be cuts that you didn't want to have to make and players that you didn't want to lose. The offseason provided opportunities to deal with those situations, as Brandon Marshall and Toney Scheffler each went to teams of their choice.

This year, Josh McDaniels is no longer cleaning house from the teams that vaulted to mediocrity under Mike Shanahan. The defensive line has once again been helped though free agency. The draft once more confounded and perplexed as much as it illuminated, but by the time OTAs had ended, Denver could see enough of a change in the players on the field to give the fans plenty to cheer about. Veterans and rookies alike are going to be fighting for a chance to play on the 2010 Broncos. It's time to watch the players carefully, because there will be some changes that weren't expected, some stars in the making who will, and a chance to watch a new team take place right in front of our thermoses, ground cloths and cheering sections. It's time for the ones who will take Denver through this season to step up and be counted, and the count runs up to 53 (plus 8 for the practice squad).

Go, Broncos!

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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Once again great read Doc!

Oh and the “blow across the field like the solar winds off the mountains of an autumn dusk” line was classic. I had to go back and say it in my best John Facenda voice.

What a drag it is getting old. - Mick

by orangeblood on Jul 26, 2010 12:37 PM MDT reply actions  

There is not enough NFL caliber competition at TE and ILB and I believe we will suffer for it.

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 26, 2010 1:41 PM MDT reply actions  

You may well be right

Last season, despite the fact that R. Quinn had trouble picking up the schemes, one of the things that was being criticized by some of the fans was that he was essentially a blocking TE. The perfect object is to find someone who is both, but in this case, within 8 weeks, there were a half dozen NFL teams looking for a blocking TE. That supports exactly what you’re saying McG (Yes, I know you don’t like Quinn, but let’s stick to the question that you brought up first if that’s OK) – more quality TEs are needed – of each type, receiving, blocking and dual-purpose.

ILB is a very interesting problem, since the needs of different teams are so substantially diverse. The days of the monster, Dick Butkus-type MLB, plowing through the middle of the line, are increasingly rare, and there are fewer and fewer teams that run a true MLB anyway. The biggest issue as far as I can see (particularly for Denver) is the simple number of effective 3-4 ILB, of which the NFL now requires two to four per team that runs that system. To do the job well, the player needs the size required by that team (and we know that McX wants them in the 255-268 range), the speed to handle twists, stunts and coverage as well as pulling down RBs from behind. The coverage issue is often Cover 2, which has a large zone that one of the two ILB will be expected to handle. The ILB also has to have an excellent grasp of the offensive strategy and tendencies and top flight run-stopping skills.

There aren’t a lot of players like that out there. Generally, you’re giving up one skill or more to accept a higher level of play in certain other skills and matching one ILB to another, hoping that they balance out. They don’t always manage that, and it’s likely to be a problem for a long time.

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jul 26, 2010 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

disagree and agree. Graham, Quinn, Branson is the depth chart at TE, right?

I would say McD’s system is not TE reliant. Hey, I wanted them to draft Gronkowski or the Oregon TE, but I McD does not place the receiving skills of a TE. Altho you now see NE seeing changin that philosophy with this past draft. I hope McD isnt late to the party about that.

Now, your ILB point is spot on. I would say DJ is a slightly above avg ILB. Haggan will be an avg ILB too. That will be a main priority in 2011 draft, I assume.

Here’s hoping our DL plays out of there mind so that our avg ILBs can make plays.

"You are worthress, Arec Barrwin!" - Kim Jong II

by Orange and Blue on Jul 26, 2010 3:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

What do Rich Quinn and Branson and McGeorge have in common. None of us has made an NFl catch. Color me unimpressed by those two. They may be young, but they are also undistinguished and unproven. So no, I don’t just assume we have depth here. You shouldn’t either unless you standards of depth are very very low.

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 26, 2010 9:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

What do we know about our TE position:
a) Graham started all the games
b) Graham is an occassional pass-catcher but normally an extra lineman
c) Graham is probably one of the highest paid TEs in the league
d) Quinn was the best blocking TE in the 2009 draft
e) Quinn was Graham’s backup last yr (on team, not PS) so he learned from one of the best blocking TEs in the league

Now if I told you Tom Santi was Dallas Clark’s backup, would that impress you? How about Kris Wilson as Antonio Gates backup?

I just dont see the depth being a huge issue based on the type of TE we use.

"You are worthress, Arec Barrwin!" - Kim Jong II

by Orange and Blue on Jul 27, 2010 9:12 AM MDT up reply actions  

Your backups

substantiates McG’s original statement.

"Ben Roethlisburger is screwed up, he uses bathrooms for sex and golf courses for bathrooms." Unknown

by 3nS on Jul 27, 2010 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

Depth at TE is relative. My point is that the “depth” issue is relevant for the ILB position but irrelevant to the TE position – IF you have a solid TE that starts.

"You are worthress, Arec Barrwin!" - Kim Jong II

by Orange and Blue on Jul 27, 2010 5:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

blasphemy! I thought you were a Branson supporter:) jk

"You are worthress, Arec Barrwin!" - Kim Jong II

by Orange and Blue on Jul 27, 2010 10:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

I am

I just haven’t seen him block yet. Hearing that it’s better is great – seeing him level one is priceless!

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jul 27, 2010 10:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

And DL needs to be as high a priority in the next draft

Our DL is all nearing retirement age. The anchor, NT Jamal Williams is so old one can not expect him to last through next year.

by si_ice on Jul 27, 2010 9:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

Quinn had rough transition ...

But that does not mean he is a right off!

by isaiahkyler on Jul 26, 2010 7:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

It also doesn’t mean we have our TE of the future or good depth at TE.

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 26, 2010 9:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks, Doc!

Another great read. I think that there will be more competition all around than last year, with some difficult, but necessary cuts. There will be few “cut proof” players.

Man, I’m glad we only have another week before the competition begins.

Rec’d as always, Emmett!

'The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.'
-- Albert Einstein

by hairybear on Jul 26, 2010 2:38 PM MDT reply actions  

Rookies and FAs on Wed!

A small taste is better than starvation. I tend to think of this week as ‘tapas’, with the buffet being set up this weekend ;-)

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jul 26, 2010 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

Great, great read Doc, Rec'd

I know that the initial list may not have been yours, but I was surprised to see Stokley behind Willis on the list as well as no mention of Toney Baker up there. I also found it interesting that you only see 5-6 possible WR spots open on the team, where most people ‘round these parts see 6-7. If there are really only 5-6 spots, then that really makes it one of the most interesting battles to follow in TC, especially considering that number of spots would leave Stokley off the roster. With our talented, young receiving corps, and young offense in general, I believe keeping Stokley on the team is imperative. Concerning the linebackers, you’ve got me pretty excited to see what Kevin Alexander can bring to the table in TC. Concerning the corners, you had Champ as a lock, which I agree with, but was your comment about wishing he would be able to tackle better directed at Andre or Champ? In my mind, Champ is one of the most sure open field tacklers I have seen.

DON'T TELL AL GORE WHERE I AM!!!

by manbearpig5000000 on Jul 26, 2010 2:48 PM MDT reply actions  

My gut

tells me the PUP plays into keeping Stokley on the roster to start the season, and we see him retire or move on somewhere around the middle of the season. Which is a little disappointing, because I can remember quite a few clutch plays last season. Responsible for atleast two of the Broncos victories. Maybe I should change my diet so my guy has better news for Stokley!

So I see you rolled your way into the semis?

by OutOfYourElement on Jul 26, 2010 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

Possible is such an interesting word ;-)

6-7 WRs is possible, but 7 is generally a stretch. It can be done, though, if there’s enough reason and enough talented veterans at other positions to take up the slack, and that’s where I have concerns. We have several positions in which we need rookies or very young players to step into a role quickly, and that can get pretty dicey. Potentially, OL, RB (T. Baker, Hall or Ball), WR (obviously), TE (Branson, Quinn, Geer or Overbay. Then we have D and a little relief, but not enough: I love the DL so far as we stay ahead of the injury bug, but we need to see at least one young OLB step in (unless Doom fills his gaps on runs, and that could happen), at least 1-2 (Dime player and injury backup) at CB and thankfully, we look good at safety.

So, that’s 5 positions on the team where we need youngsters to step in in some degree, and that’s a lot. It may limit how many young players we can handle at WR. My comment on tackling? Goodman – I love the guy, but at his point in his career, he’s not likely to change his ways and his tackling has cost his dearly last year. Champ is a Master Lock when he tackles – swung on a big, heavyweight chain ;-)

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jul 26, 2010 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

I see what you’re saying about the wide receiver position. In everyone’s mock depth chart I have seen with 7 WR’s, they are leaving other areas of the team pretty thin, particularly the linebacker position.
Sorry for the confusion on the tackling. :-) I’m glad you were referring to Goodman, I guess the wording threw me off because I literally gasped as I read that for the first time. ha ha

DON'T TELL AL GORE WHERE I AM!!!

by manbearpig5000000 on Jul 26, 2010 5:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

Great article Doc,

It should be an interesting TC this year. And although you really didn’t address the TE positon, I’d say there may be more competition there than some think. Not as strong as I’d like to see, but it could give a surprise. I think Overbay may be more of a gamer than he’s given credit for, but, we’ll have to what and see.

"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."

by bchiper on Jul 26, 2010 3:23 PM MDT reply actions  

You're right

I chose only the top 4 battles to give a little more time to each, but there will be battles at nearly every position this year, and TE is no different. Graham, Quinn and Branson are the most likely, but Quinn has to learn the playbook and handle his routes, while we need to see Branson block in real games. Geer or Overbay could sneak in, no question.

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jul 26, 2010 5:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

whole-heartedly agree that Barrett is on bubble…I’ll go farther to say he’s likely out.

One thing I dont quite get, is why Larsen hasnt been given a shot at ILB (no OTA time on D as you stated). He is a ball hawk. I hope he gets a chance.

"You are worthress, Arec Barrwin!" - Kim Jong II

by Orange and Blue on Jul 26, 2010 3:45 PM MDT reply actions  

work yourself into a job

Larsen worked himself into a job he probably did not prefer. He has shown the coaches the willingness to “do what it takes” and with that he has become a decent of not good FB.

by kimbertr on Jul 26, 2010 4:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

Larsen: ILB or FB?

I had been slow to warm to the idea of Larsen as a FB but it seems to be the position where he can best help us. Larsen was never really considered to be more than a backup quality ILB but he has the chance to be something special as a FB. I suppose that you, like I, have wished that the ILB position could be filled and that tends to bias us slightly towards using him there. It’s the Webster legacy.

I think we have to realize that Shanahan was on to something when he moved Larsen there initially. I also can’t emphasize enough how important it is to have a highly skilled and intelligent blocker at FB. My feeling at this point is that FB combines very well with assignments on all the STs. ILB — on the other hand — does not combine with a full load of STs assignments. It may be best to look at Larsen as a STs star who we’d like to find time for on either offense or defense.

Finally — the more I think about it, the more I like the idea. Larsen brings the physicality that we haven’t seen a long time and his role in a RZ offense could quickly make us forget our desires to finally add to ILB — which we can still do in the next draft. My hope is that he finds a special role on offense, and that’s clearly a better outcome than him becoming a backup ILB.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jul 26, 2010 6:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

Another thing to add here

it was a thought I had last year:

if we can develop Larsen’s blocking ability as a FB and his vision in that area we can use more of the TED Blocking system for our linebackers and have Larsen gunning for the Center every play filling that 5th man and opening the blitz up more

Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!

"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown

by Jon Tollerud on Jul 26, 2010 6:53 PM MDT up reply actions  

uses for Larsen

I recall reading about the Ted blocking scheme so I know what you mean.

My perspective is somewhat less grounded in the ‘Xs and Os.’ I see Larsen as the type of player McDaniels wants for an important position on offense. It’s a perspective that’s less about certain physical traits than about certain mental and character traits. I recall describing these traits as defensive player’s attitude on offense, which is another way of summing up the “tough, smart and versatile” characteristics that McDaniels is looking for. And considering how ineffective we’ve been in our goal line offense in recent years, it’s easy to see why McDaniels may be looking for a certain kind of player for the FB position. Some problems in football are not solved through ‘Xs and Os.’ The formula for fixing our problems relies on intangibles that are — by definition — not measured in mere metrics.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jul 26, 2010 8:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

agreed

as a guy who looks into the x’s and o’s as well as the intangibles.

I like what McDaniels is doing with some players. The tenacity that Larsen has shown (limited) in his play speaks volumes about his playing abilities. His grasp of the game being both an offensive and defensive player can help on the sidelines and on the field as well.

Davis and Sharpe to the Hall!

"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown

by Jon Tollerud on Jul 28, 2010 1:31 AM MDT up reply actions  

Larsen at FB

Trouble with Larsen at FB is that he is a blocker and not a ball catcher. Last year he mentioned he is not comfortable with the ball and he does not get the ball. For the opposing D see Larsen at FB = know the ball is not coming that way. That is his limitation and it will impact scheming.

by si_ice on Jul 27, 2010 9:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

re: Larsen

That’s true but there aren’t many FBs who do catch the ball (much). I try to stay clear of ‘Xs and Os’ issues because I’m likely to embarrass myself but there’s enough options without the FB becoming a receiver. The fact that Larsen isn’t a good receiver isn’t much of a deficit since he wouldn’t be called upon to catch many passes anyways.

The RB could still become the outlet receiver and Larsen the pass protector, and having a smart pass protector is fairly important. I see it as a way of selling play action more effectively. And it probably can’t hurt to have another blocker whose efforts are directed at shoring up a porous interior OL, although this was last year’s problem. I see it as a way of easing the transition to the NFL for our inexperienced OLs.

Finally — what was true of Larsen last year may not hold to the same degree this year. Larsen doesn’t need to do much more than catch a rare outlet pass (which is a touch pass) to keep the defense honest, and that’s not asking much.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jul 27, 2010 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

kimbertr, he was asked before he was drafted if he'd be OK at FB and said yes

I thought that last year, when he wasn’t injured, he blocked like a tank. I love the ‘do what it takes’ part, but I think that he’s turning into a traditional blocking FB. The picture that came out of OTAs with Larsen toting the ball also got me excited – they could turn him into a full FB with blocking and even a little receiving skill and he could be truly good.

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jul 26, 2010 5:07 PM MDT reply actions  

I saw Larsen up and close and personal in college (U of A) and he was the heart and soul of the team. You make a good point that made me remember when he picked up a fumble (which seemed often) he was incredibly difficult to bring down. Maybe it’s all for the best.

"You are worthress, Arec Barrwin!" - Kim Jong II

by Orange and Blue on Jul 26, 2010 8:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

Boy did this whet my appetite for camp!

I think you picked the really interesting battles quite nicely Doc. My favorites are going to be ILB and WR. Pretty hard to say right now who’s going to be the right stuff and who’s going to hit the road. By the way I totally agree with wondering about the Eric Olsen pick. Was this really the best player we could come up with there? OL seems to have numerous story lines given how many different positions the players have been in previously. Looks like Harris will be OK at RT, Clady is going to be a while coming back and I can’t say I’m confident with Polumbus at LT just yet.

Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein

by Ponderosa on Jul 26, 2010 5:28 PM MDT reply actions  

yes, I had several guys that I thought would do us more good than Eric

Weird pick, but I guess most teams have one or two a year. This year, he’s ours, at least to me. I’m not comfortable at all with Polumbus, but I’m willing to have my mind changed (it’s now an outpatient procedure :D). And, this is what makes training camp so much fun!

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jul 27, 2010 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

I was surprised too

Just at the shear numbers of interior linemen drafted. Denver for sure has Kuper then you have S Olsen, Walton, and Beadles as well as other vets. Draft another rookie to be the backup of other rookies?
Last year they didn’t play Olsen which seemed smart not to throw the rookie in there but then to draft 3 rookies, I don’t get it. If Olsen makes the team, he will redshirt like Baker did last year. Why draft a guy if that is how he will be used?

"Ben Roethlisburger is screwed up, he uses bathrooms for sex and golf courses for bathrooms." Unknown

by 3nS on Jul 27, 2010 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yes, it seems strange

Perhaps the season will show us a good reason. Otherwise, it may be one of those things that someone felt was important, but didn’t pan out. Seems to be one with most teams every year or two.

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jul 27, 2010 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

re: Olsen

I’m not a big fan of “flooding” but the Olsen pick makes sense if you don’t consider our other picks.

My philosophy concerning the draft (and McX’s, too, apparently) is that the 6th and 7th round picks are essentially throw away picks. If you fill a need anywhere on your team then it’s a wise pick, but if you don’t then it’s no big deal. Olsen’s training at N.D. made him a more attractive prospect for us, so there was a justification for his selection even if the numbers don’t make sense. My sense of it is that he rated higher in our scouting than most had him rated, so he was a bargain even though he’s a redundant pick.

BTW — I had some indication that he might be able to cover OT, which would increase his utility. I’ve yet to see further confirmation, though.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jul 27, 2010 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm still not thrilled, but here's what I found
Pick Analysis

: The Broncos add a smart and instinctive pivot in Eric Olsen. The former Notre Dame standout processes information quickly, and has the ability to make quick reads on the move. Given Josh McDaniels’ desire to rebuild the Broncos into a team full of competitive high character guys with outstanding intelligence, the selection of Olsen is sensible at this point. Did 35 Reps on the 25 Bench press – extremely strong, needs to develop technique and stay lower. Pad level is a problem at times. May need to develop the lower body – he had a short broad jump and tends to ge high – is this showing a lower body that needs to be strengthened? Given his bench, a couple of years with Tuten should solve that. Tuten will also work on explosion – he isn’t fast enough off the line yet. Hopefully, both are curable. Vertical jump of 29.5 – not awful, not great. 7.50 in the 3 cone drill, when 7.40 was the best time. Not bad at all – he’s fairly agile.

Link – Olsen is a good college center with excellent size, strength and technique. He works his blocks hard and will fight from snap to whistle to get the job done. He does a good job of getting a fit with his hands to control and steer opponents but does not always bring his feet with him when reacting to movement. He is not real nimble or quick getting to the second level when on the back side and is not real effective when blocking in space. He is not a natural knee-bender and struggles to keep his pad level down to leverage his blocks. He has a chance on size, competitiveness and intelligence but lacks the physical tools to be a front-line player.
Tall interior lineman with great bulk. Gets his hands inside defenders’ pads and has the strength to generate a good push. Has a bit of a mean streak and fights to the end of the whistle every snap. Heady player who knows his blocking assignments and takes good angles
Keeps his pads too high and loses leverage, because he is not a natural knee-bender. Lacks initial quickness to shock defenders and does not have the agility to be effective in space. Has inconsistent balance and forgets to move his feet underneath him at times.

So, clearly an interior guy, Weis recommended him to McD and I expect EO to spend a year on the PS – at least. But I did finally get to read the notes on him up on denverbroncos.com, and they explained their reasoning pretty well:

2009: Olsen moved to center following spring drills and went on to start all 12 games for the Fighting Irish at that position as a senior, earning third-team All-America honors from The Sporting News… Received the Guardian of the Year Award as Notre Dame’s top offensive lineman… Allowed one sack in 450 pass attempts… One of four team captains… Graded out as the team’s best lineman and registered more snaps (848) than any offensive player… Posted 84 knockdown blocks… Penalized just once for the year… Helped Notre Dame average 451.8 yards per game on offense for the ninth-best output in the nation… Graded 85 percent or better for his blocking consistency in seven games… Did not allow his blocking assignments to post a tackle in three consecutive games.
2008: Olsen started all 13 games for Notre Dame at left guard as a junior… Allowed three sacks in 447 pass attempts..
.
OK, one penalty in a year of 848 snaps is very good, three sacks in 447 pass attempts and zero tackles in three consecutive games, plus rating at 85 or better in 7 games are all pretty good. Team captain…yep, him too. I still don’t care for the pick, but hopefully he’s going to prove me utterly wrong.

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jul 27, 2010 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

a little more

I could never figure the pick out so I won’t defend it. The justification for a “flood” is pretty obvious though, you take more than one to ensure that you’ll find at least one (or more). The trade for the Kirlew and Thompson picks made the Olsen pick feel less problematic but the rationale for the pick still seems questionable.

Again, it looks like a flood strategy,

Again, we may have rated him higher so it was hard to pass up on a prospect whose eventual likelihood of contributing is high (once he made the roster, perhaps after a year on the PS). I’ve read all of what you posted above previously and he sounds somewhat better than his ratings on CBS, DS, etc.

I could get myself worked up (in a negative sense) about the pick if it wasn’t for the fact that they seem to do a wonderful job selling UDFAs on the idea of coming here. And I think there’s a reasonably good chance that Eric beats out Seth so the pick is defensible under the ‘reasonably good chance of making your roster’ criterion, although I mentally cut EO long ago.

no goats, no glory.

by Colinski on Jul 27, 2010 5:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

Good Points Colinski and Doc

Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein

by Ponderosa on Jul 27, 2010 4:28 PM MDT up reply actions  

Olsen

Its only strange if you thought Walton is/was a lock to pan out… but since ~50%+ of draft picks wash out, that may not have been a sure thing.

Now, it sounds from OTAs like Walton was progressing quite well (or at least being given the opportunity to sink or swim with the 1st team)… so by the end of TC Olsen may be expendable. But thats not something McX could know at draft time. That or he has to beat out S. Olsen, Fry and/or Hoch for a roster spot (and if he does, great… we improved).

Think of Olsen as insurance… you hope you don’t ever use him, but you’re glad to have him if you do. Thats not a bad deal for 6th round pick.

by cjfarls on Jul 29, 2010 9:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

Kevin Alexander;

your outline really got me pulling for him to make it. (Good for the team as well if he proves out as 24k gold, we could use the help here.)
Thanks again for an excellent article Doc. I really appreciate the steady, professional tone of your position posts while still giving insight into the personal stories and skills that really flesh out our players. Rec’ed, of course.

by idahobronc on Jul 26, 2010 5:40 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

That's alot of things to watch at Camp

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.

by KaptainKirk on Jul 27, 2010 12:16 AM MDT reply actions  

Excellent read Doc

As I have said to you before I am really interested to see what happens at LB during training camp and you have really got me thinking about some of these battles.
How many LBs do you think will be on the 53 man roster?
Do you think Kirlew and Alexander are competing for one spot?
With regards to ILB does it come down to Grieson, Ayodele and Woodyard for 2 spots?

"The Holy Writ of Gloucester Rugby Club demands: first, that the forwards shall win the ball; second, that the forwards shall keep the ball; and third, the backs shall buy the beer." - Doug Ibbotson

by SteveUK on Jul 27, 2010 1:54 AM MDT reply actions  

Steve:

1. I don’t know, based in great part on the issue that also affects WR – you’ve got to make room for a guy by dropping someone else, and then there’s this cascade of who goes where so that he can go here and….lol. I’d guess 7, but could be off by one (or two?), since the ST specialist factor can come in. Which brought up your next question:
2. I think that Kirlew and Alexander could both make it. It wouldn’t be easy, but Alexander has it right – he’s immediately decided to make a name for himself on STs, and that’s the route for him. Kirlew might be able to be a second rush linebacker, and that has some serious advantages if he can also set the edge (and I think that he can, based on what I’ve read. Didn’t get to see anything but highlight film on him and that means almost nothing).
3. I think that it does, and from what I’ve read and seen of Ayodele, I hope it’s not him. On the other hand, I haven’t gotten to see Greisen due to the injury, so it’s open. I think that Woodyard would hvae to really do poorly to mnot make it, so it’s Nick vs. Akin

All fine guesses, and about as good as most – we’ll know soon enough!

Best,

Doc

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jul 27, 2010 11:21 AM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks Doc

"The Holy Writ of Gloucester Rugby Club demands: first, that the forwards shall win the ball; second, that the forwards shall keep the ball; and third, the backs shall buy the beer." - Doug Ibbotson

by SteveUK on Jul 28, 2010 1:18 AM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the read! Wish we had video coverage of camp so we could...

see this competition play out!

Future 2010 MHR Fantasy Football Champion! ;)

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams

by Broncotodd on Jul 27, 2010 7:38 AM MDT reply actions  

Doc, Great read

well thought out – gives you a lot to think about and hope for! Personally I’m a fan of Kirlew and Willis, so I’ll be pulling for them during camp, but time will tell!

Larsen should be fun to watch this year, I think FB is his natural position myself!

daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed

by Broncs55 on Jul 27, 2010 8:00 AM MDT reply actions  

great read doc...

we’re gonna have fun this next couple of weeks…

by wisco on Jul 27, 2010 9:48 AM MDT reply actions  

I don't think anyone hopes Alphonso Smith will fail...

Some Broncos fans may have already written him off as a bust, but they’d still be thrilled if he started producing results commensurate with his first-round price tag.

by Velveeta on Jul 27, 2010 11:01 AM MDT reply actions  

We've had a couple of folks mention that they did recently, V.

I couldn’t tell you why, but it happened enough to make it worth tossing in ;-)

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jul 27, 2010 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions  

Wow...

I can understand expecting him to fail…

Maybe they hope he will fail because they had previously said they expect him to fail and if he does fail then that will prove that they were right about him failing and therefore they have a big e-peen for being right on the internet.

Sigh

by Velveeta on Jul 27, 2010 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

Nice job EM!

You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!

"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"

Harv Neptune.

by boydy2669 on Jul 27, 2010 12:15 PM MDT reply actions  

IF ST is a huge Key for WR sticking

Nice write Doc. Kinda seems like either Bay Bay or Decker may end up on the PUP. Can’t imagine risking serious injury on ST, short term, for either of these guys. McKinley, LLoyd, Willis and Arnett better find a way to make a tackle on ST. Although McKinley has shown some potential and can back up PR. At WR we can’t expect Gaffney, Royal, Stokely or Lloyd to be gunning down on either PR or KR. McD plan needs some WR playings some MF ST.

by HippoJohn on Jul 28, 2010 1:33 PM MDT reply actions  

McKinley would be a returner

He couldn’t tackle to save his life. I don’t think that we’ll expect Lloyd, Stokes or Gaff to do so either – Royal needs to stop returning. Generally, off the top of my head, most of the returners that I think of are WR of a certain body type (Eddie is closest, but not exact) – otherwise, CBs, RBs, specialists (Cribbs, for example; perhaps Hester should have been left theres, etc). It’s a tough year to try to make Denver at CB or WR.

Gnothi Seauton

by Doc Bear on Jul 28, 2010 2:21 PM MDT reply actions  

I concur with your McKinley assessment.

There aren’t many openings in the NFL for ultra slender WRs. I like his speed but I guess I am still stuck on hard blocking WRs like Rod and Ed.

I agree, Larsen shouldn’t get any bigger. I am getting tired of his bone crushing hits knocking the pixels off my TV, once they fall to the floor they are very hard to find.

by Arctic Bronco on Jul 30, 2010 9:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

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