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Broncos Surrounded By Questions Heading Into Training Camp

I wrote this for Denver.SBNation.com, but wanted to cross post over here.  We'll be talking more about Training Camp later today....Guru

There really is nothing quite like it.  That first morning of Training Camp in the NFL.  Every team has hope.  Sure, Spring Training in baseball is fun for prosperity's sake, but does anyone really think the Kansas City Royals can compete with the New York Yankees?  No way.  In the NFL, everyone has hope - teams and fans alike.  That is why each year the fresh cut grass calls me back to Denver when the Broncos start camp.

That doesn't mean all is well, or there aren't issues to be addressed while the Broncos are getting down to business.  Far from it.  In fact, picking the Top 5 was rather difficult since there are so many questions surrounding the Broncos.  With August 1st fast approaching, let's take a look at the 5 biggest questions surrounding and Orange and Blue as the 2010 NFL Season rushes at us.

5. Change On Defense 

The Broncos stormed out of the gates in 2009, starting 6-0, raising expectations to unrealistic levels.  The resulting slide - the Broncos finished 2-8 - resulted in a further shake-up, both on the roster and coaching staff.  Mike Nolan left the team, heading to Miami to become the defensive coordinator of the Dolphins.  The Broncos decided to replace Nolan - a veteran of the coaching ranks - with Don 'Wink' Martindale.  With just 7 years of coaching experience in the NFL, Martindale has taken the fast track to a coordinators job in the NFL.  The players respect him, and more importantly, seem to respond to him as well.  How quickly Martindale can get up to speed as a DC, however, will go a long way with how well the Broncos defense performs.

Martindale will have plenty of veteran leadership at his disposal, however.  With short-yardage shortcomings befalling the Broncos once again, the team went out and revamped the defensive line.  Jamal Williams comes over the San Diego to provide the Broncos with a proven anchor in the middle.  The Broncos also poached from other successful 3-4 schemes, grabbing DE Justin Bannan from Baltimore and Jarvis Green from New England.  While neither player was a full-time starter on their former teams, both come from programs that have become synonymous with winning.  Their knowledge in the locker room could be just as valuable as their impact on the field.

It is about time the Broncos put the 'D' back in the Denver.  2010 seems to be the start.

Star-divide

4.  Quarterback Quandary 

I could make 5 questions just about the quarterback position.  Perhaps another Top 5 for another time.  For now, let's focus on the 50,000 foot view.  The Broncos, on paper at least, have depth at the position they haven't had for years.  The question is, can any of these guys step up and become solid NFL starting quarterbacks?  Kyle Orton will go into camp as the top guy.  He should.  Orton was having his best season as a pro before injuring an ankle against Washington.  He never was really the same after that.  Unfortunately for Orton, injuries have been an issue his entire pro career.  Each time he seems to be finding a rhythm, something happens.   One has to wonder too, as Orton heads into his late 20's, if we haven't already seen the ceiling of Orton's potential. 

Perhaps we got the answer to that question when the Broncos acquired Brady Quinn from the Browns for Peyton Hillis and a 6-pack of Orange Crush.  Like Orton, Quinn has yet to firmly grab a hold of any opportunity he's been given.  Unlike Orton, Quinn comes to Denver to play in an offense very similar to the one he starred in at Notre Dame.  Questions about Quinn remain, however, the same questions that existed when he came out of college - can he make all the throws, is he accurate enough down-field, can he read a defense, is he a good leader in the huddle.  All those still need answered.  There is little doubt to me, however, that Quinn will be given every opportunity to unseat Orton. 

Of course, how can I talk quarterbacks without talking about Tim Tebow.  All eyes will be on Tebow when camp opens and that in and of itself could be another question on this list.  Tebow has said and done all the right things since high school it seems and I doubt that changes now.  Tebow possesses every intangible you could want from a quarterback, now he needs to translate all that to the field.  It was enough in high school, it was enough in college.  My guess is it isn't if Tebow can do the job, it is when, or, how soon. 

3.  Who Will Catch the Ball?

Some might say that having the quarterback question all the way at #4 is a bit low.  Perhaps, but starting with #3, these questions will have a direct impact on whoever is taking snaps under center in games for the Broncos.  It starts with the receiving corp.  Brandon Marshall and his 300+ catches the past 3 seasons were sent to Miami.  That is a lot of production to replace - even if there will be fewer headaches.  The Broncos addressed the position in the Draft, starting with top pick Demaryius Thomas.  Thomas is as talented as any receiver to come out the past few years but he is rough around the edges.  Thomas is also coming off a foot injury.  The other rookie wide receiver has some injury concerns of his own.  Eric Decker, from Minnesota, is a far-more refined receiver than Thomas, while not as gifted.  I hate to make the 'white-receiver' comparison, but Decker will remind a lot of people of another WR to wear #87 for the Broncos - Ed McCaffrey.  Like Easy Ed, Decker won't blow anyone away with his speed, but Decker knows how to read a defense, knows how to get open, and catches just about everything he gets his fingers on. 

The Broncos will need the veterans on the unit to step up until the rookies are ready, however.  That starts with Jabar Gaffney, whose 14-catch performance in the season finale gave fans a sneak-peak at what he can do.  Gaffney is under-rated and can be effective in 2010.  Eddie Royal will be looking to bounce back after struggling in his sophomore campaign.  Expect Royal to lineup more inside where he can take advantage of slower defenders.  Brandon Lloyd will also get a look at camp.

All eyes that aren't on Tebow will be focused on this group.  For better or worse, the Broncos chose not to pay Brandon Marshall.  How well the guys left behind and added to the receiving corps perform will go a long way towards determining if it was a mistake.

2.  2009 Draft Class Needs To Perform

If there are any eyes left not watching Tebow or the receivers, they will likely be watching members of the 2009 Draft class.  While solid, the 2009 Draft for the Broncos needs to be more.  Whether or not it will be starts this season.  It starts at the top.  The Broncos drafted RB Knowshon Moreno with the 12th overall pick. Sure, he showed flashes, but Moreno seemed to get a bit lost as the season went on.  Some of that can likely be attributed to his holdout.  Moreno then got injured in his first pre-season game.  Now, in serious cram mode, Moreno never seemed to catch up.  With a full off-season, in a NFL program, look for Moreno to do more running, less thinking, and become a Top-10 running back.

The Broncos are also expecting big things from the 18th overall pick in the 2009 Draft, DE/OLB Robert Ayers.  The Broncos don't have the veteran protection on the other side of Elvis Dumervil they did last season.  It is up to Ayers - or Jarvis Moss - to step up and take pressure off Dumervil and put it directly on opposing quarterbacks.  Ayers seemed to get better as the season went along, but will have to take a big step in 2010.  If the Broncos cannot generate a pass rush - or defend the run for that matter - with their front 4 or 5, it could be a long season.

In many people's minds, the Broncos actually had three first round picks in 2009.  That's because they traded a first round pick in 2010 to move up in the 2nd Round for CB Alphonso Smith.  Smith, a gifted defender and return man, never seemed to take that first step as a rookie.  The game seemed too fast for him and the Broncos were forced to bring in veteran Ty Law.  The Broncos aren't going to make the same mistake this year, having already signed veteran nickle-man Nate Jones.  Smith is going to have to earn his way back on the field.  This is a huge season for Smith - was he getting a head start in 2009, or is he a bust?

1. Offensive Line 'If's'

The biggest question facing the Broncos heading into Training Camp 2010?  Who is going to play on the offensive line?!  Sure, we think we know.  IF Ryan Harris is fully healthy, he'll come back to play right tackle.  IF Ryan Clady comes back from off-season knee surgery, he'll be at left tackle.  IF rookie J.D. Walton can pick up the line calls and protections, he'll be the starting center.  You get my drift?

The Broncos have plenty of talent along the offensive line, but until the injured come back and prove their healthy, no one knows for sure.  Until the young guys come out and prove it on the field, no one knows for sure.  That is the question surrounding the line, and it is a HUGE question.  Let's face it, even if the answers to the previous 4 questions were answered with a best-case scenario answer, the entire season can get derailed fast if the Broncos don't get consistent play up front.

Think about it.  The Broncos downward spiral started in Baltimore.  That happens to be the game Ryan Harris was injured.  Coincidence?  Maybe, maybe not.  There is little doubt that it affected the Broncos the rest of the season.  Even the veteran depth, Russ Hochstein, is coming off knee surgery.  As it stands, the Broncos have one position that could be considered something close to a sure thing - Chris Kuper at right guard.  The rest is a complete toss-up.

That is, of course, what Training Camp is for.  The Broncos have plenty of questions.  Sure, it is fun for guys like me to try and answer them.  It passes the time until the real answers show themselves, starting this Sunday.  All we really know right now is we have hope.  Enjoy it, because reality, whatever it is, is rapidly approaching.

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Nice primer

Couldn’t agree more on the O-line observations. Knowshon’s problems went beyond those stated IMO. He did appear a little gun shy by the end of the season but given how many times he got creamed behind the line of scrimmage understandable. Personally, I thought he made some tremendous runs just to get back to the line of scrimmage.

If the O-line comes back healthy and the rooks prove out I think we can earn out way into the playoffs this year and, you know what, that’s what I’m predicting. And I’m sticking to it!

"Peace, a journey without distance to a place we have never left."

by BroncoCUbuffs on Jul 27, 2010 5:54 AM MDT reply actions  

Good work!

To me, it all depends on the lines.

"To be honest, I will wear whatever number they want me to wear. If that's 15,
I'll wear 15. If that's 95, I'll wear 95. I don't really care, just as long as
I can wear a Denver Broncos jersey. That's my approach and my attitude."
TT 4/23/10

by Biffster on Jul 27, 2010 6:09 AM MDT reply actions  

Good one, John.

I guess I’d add 6 and 7:

Do we finally have a punter?

Is Royal going to return kicks, if not who?

"Kool-Aid Kool Aid, Tastes Great, We Want Kool Aid, Can't Wait"

by littletinybroncos on Jul 27, 2010 6:35 AM MDT reply actions  

Nice post

I agree the OL is the biggest question. IF Orton does win the QB job outright and the Oline sucks Orton is gonna get killed back there. Its so secret he isnt the most nimble of QB’s.

You probably get this a lot. This isn't the real Caesar's Palace is it?....Did Caesar live here?

You know where I wanna go? I'll tell you where. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talking about a little place called Aspen

by johnnystarr on Jul 27, 2010 7:07 AM MDT reply actions  

Kudos

This is a nice, honest assessment of the development of the team. I’ve read a lot of 5, 10, or whatever # of things to look out for, some of which I just stopped reading halfway through because they cited concerns that really weren’t concerns or were overrated. Yours are very realistic issues for the Broncos and for us Broncos fans. The only thing I might quarrel with is the order of the questions and, with a nod to littletinybroncos above, whether you should have included kicking and returning kicks. But if that’s the only quarrel, then kudos to you.

by opinion8r on Jul 27, 2010 7:25 AM MDT reply actions  

“Expect Royal to lineup more inside where he can take advantage of slower defenders”

I don’t get this. Aren’t most nickel and dime CBs small, but quick dudes? I thought most nickel CBs were not big enough to handle the responsibility of the one on one matchup with a WR on the outside. I certainly don’t know everything about football so maybe I’m wrong here?

Or did you mean LBs dropping into coverage? I don’t like the idea of little Royal taking shots from LBs and Orton did lay him out a few times too many last season. This is a reason why Orton’s election not to attempt many 10-15 yard passes bothers me. Our WRs were subjected to quite a few hits by front seven defenders in 2009 and that will always lead to more injuries.

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 27, 2010 7:51 AM MDT reply actions  

Only if....

Teams are in a constant nickle. If it is a base defense, it is going to be a LB or S.

That further brings WR into the spotlight, especially the guys outside. The Broncos will need to stretch the field in order to clear up the underneath. I expect D-Thomas to run a ton of fly routes early on – with the Broncos taking an inordinate amount of shots deep – to try and get the DB’s running backwards. That’s when Royal will be most effective.

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

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by John Bena on Jul 27, 2010 8:03 AM MDT up reply actions  

In our week 17 game...

Our ‘slot’ or nickel CB played 70% of the snaps. I believe Stokley played slot for you guys last season, yes? He played 70% of the snaps as well.

I’d be willing to wager that the offensive set, more often than not, dictates what set the defense comes out in. It would be foolish to willingly create a mismatch, imo, by not putting your nickel package on the field when the offense comes out in a 3WR set.

Glad we got one of those small, quick dudes McGeorge mentions above.

The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.

by ArrowSpread on Jul 27, 2010 8:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

yes

and in a year or two when they have real NFL experience, they will be a real asset to your team.

by RichardC on Jul 27, 2010 9:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

Don’t most teams send in their nickel package if the offense has a 3rd WR in the huddle?

I’m having a hard time seeing when Royal gets lined up in the slot with a S or LB in coverage (unless we are playing the Raiders and their coaches have no idea what is going on – which does happen).

Orton throwing bombs to Thomas sounds like great fun, but is that what Orton likes or is good at doing? Will he have that kind of protection now that we are going with a slower and more powerful run blocking O-line. I love the concept and appreciate your feedback, but I’m having trouble seeing how Orton fits into this kind of offense. Do we need a more mobile and strong armed QB to run these kind of plays?

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 27, 2010 8:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

Answer to your last question

IF the o-line can protect, no we don’t need a more mobile QB (becasue God and all of us know Orton sucks at being mobile).

Orton’s arm is strong enough to throw big passes (see last year vs Washington)…it isn’t always pretty but he can do it.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Jul 27, 2010 8:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

We need much better run blocking on short yardage plays, but doesn’t that come at the expense of a little less time for the QB on passing downs? I can’t imagine how these big and strong OGs/C are better pass blockers than the light and quick OGs/C. Especially on the deep drops by the QB. With the three and five steps drops, I doubt it matters much. But in airing it out? I do wonder.

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 27, 2010 8:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

My take

When Orton was pressured last year it seemed to be because the pocket collapsed…not necessarily that they were getting out manuvered, but out muscled (especially when we had problems in the interior of our line). I think the bigger guys will help this quite a bit actually…our Tackles can still move with the best ends out there once they are healthy.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Jul 27, 2010 10:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

agree, that’s what I saw too. Hamiton and Weigmann getting run over. So having stronger interior players should help.

by cohiker on Jul 27, 2010 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hum… That would be good for us if true.

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 27, 2010 12:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

That's probably the piece of the team I will be watching most in TC

The Oline performance is going to have a huge impact on how good we do offensively this year (they always do, but without a mobile QB or a RB like Barry Sanders, they have little room for mistakes). Especially watch the inside guys (the Center and the two Guards on his side)…like I said above, that was our Achilles Heel last year and contributed greatly to our offensive suckage / mediocrity.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Jul 27, 2010 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

I saw our lighter offensive line being pushed back

too often, including many running plays where Moreno was having to juke just as he got the handoff.

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Jul 28, 2010 6:07 AM MDT up reply actions  

I’d think the most likely scenario where you’d see an LB or S on the slot receiver is in short yardage situations where a run is more likely, and a defense needs to be more stout up front.

The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.

by ArrowSpread on Jul 27, 2010 8:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

There was a time in Denver's recent history...

…(when we had speed demons like Gold, Wilson, and D.J., and even Boss Bailey – though he didn’t work out) when our LBs could put up better speed than many NFL receivers under field conditions. That made life much easier for our play calling back then, freeing up use of our SS in many cases.

But your point is correct. short yardage might mean the trade-off of run protection with some risk in the pass game. I commented elsewhere that the passing threat can be offset by the use of zones and safety focus on the slot. Defenses don’t match formations with formations automaticly.

Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.

"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables

by Steve Nichols on Jul 27, 2010 9:03 AM MDT up reply actions  

They may be smaller faster guys

But they are also not starter material in the vast majority of the cases. Maybe they have the speed to match up with Royal, but Royal runs good routes and can get open nonetheless using misdirection and timing…at least his first season looked like he had those skills.

I really hope to see him get something going this year…

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Jul 27, 2010 8:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

So then it is a mismatch on skill and guile vs a mismatch on quickness? That makes more sense to me.

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 27, 2010 8:37 AM MDT up reply actions  

Another thought...

The simple thought is that the nickle is the prime formation against 3 receiver sets. It is true. However, their are several factors that lead defenses to stay in a base 3-4 (or 4-3).

Consider this. In cases where the offense comes out for short yardage in a 3 receiver set, the defense may keep the 3-4 to account for the run. Attention is still paid to the slot receiver, but it may be a combination of zones and safety help. Often the “down and distance” factor is as much of a determinate as the offense’s formation. The DC has to determine how to allot the resources he has, and it isn’t always based soley on the formation.

Of course, you know this already. But I thought it might be worth bringing up because some readers might forget that there is more to defense than matching formations against the offensive formation. (Other factors besides down and distance include defensive injuries, offensive injuries, team weaknesses and strenghts for either side, tendancies of the offense, etc).

Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.

"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables

by Steve Nichols on Jul 27, 2010 8:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

Say it’s 2nd and 3ish and the D comes out in a base formation.

Would Royal most likely (assuming he is in the slot) run a short or long route? Would be run an inside or outside route?

What makes more sense for the slot player if his team lines up in 3 WR set on 2nd and short?

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 27, 2010 9:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

The possibilities are endless...but here's a basic idea that would be used

3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB

Play-action pass to get the linebackers and linemen occupied.

You have the WR on the outside of Royal either a fly router (run forrest run!) or a deep post or flag route (same thing…run forest run!). The key here is this guy has to be fast…then you have Royal run an out route underneath. This gives you single coverage for one of the two because the safety has to pick which guy he wants to help…

The idea would be that at the hike, both WRs are releasing straight up the field…if you have a speed guy on the outside, he will make distance on the corner and force the safety to come over the top. When that happens, Royal should have an easy completion underneath as his nickelback (or linebacker) will be coming from behind.

If the safety stays on Royal, then you take the deep shot to the WR one-on-one and scare the crap out of the defense even if you get an incomplete (This is the part of the game we sorely missed last year).

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Jul 27, 2010 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

“Royal run an out route underneath.”

Can Orton make this pass? I assume it’s got to be a short, but accurate bullet.

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 27, 2010 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

In the immortal words of Ed McMahon

You are correct sir!

It can NOT be a floater unless the nickel back has choked…otherwise you give him a chance to catch up to Royal.

And yes, Orton can make that throw…he did it many times last year (too many if you asked me). The pass would be 5 – 10 yards up field and to the side…he’s shown that he is pretty accurate and zippy with those.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Jul 27, 2010 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions  

Royal is so good with cuts in his routes...

…and speed that I’d like to see him long and outside. But there are just so many considerations that counter this.

For example, we’d like to see our WRs (in our system with possession receivers) on the outside out of screens and getting sideline passes. For that reason, it would be better to see our slot (Royal) up the middle splitting the safeties. But then you have to consider if you think Orton is accurate with his long throws (there are two camps on this, and I bring it up because enough people have it as a concern).

I don’t want to see Royal take too many hits from LBs over the center, but that’s me. We have other receviers that are better built for that kind of punishment.

Perhaps the best play I can think of to get Royal on a mismatched coverage is to have the WR on his side slant in, while Royal cuts outside then upfield. In man coverage, no LB will keep up. Any SS would have problems with Royal as he goes upfield. The problem is that the play would take time to develop (not something we want much of with a new OL) and that zones would cut into a lot of the passing lanes on such a play. The passing options wouldn’t play to Orton’s strengths either.

In the end, the best way to go is probably just to not scheme around Royal. Run the RB up the gut (or screen), keep our WRs wide, and base Royal’s routes on where the holes have been when the opposition’s base defense has been used before. In other words, my final answer to your question would be, “It all depends on which team’s base D comes out. We’d use Royal differently against the Vikings than we would against the Titans.”

Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.

"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables

by Steve Nichols on Jul 28, 2010 6:23 AM MDT up reply actions  

Great point

Thanks for the insightful input…I wasn’t focused on that aspect of things at all

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Jul 27, 2010 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions  

Call it what you want...

The idea is the you are getting a mismatch. The Broncos went through 3 of those ‘small-fast guys’ last year and continued getting killed. Are there teams with that kind of depth? Definitely. But most do not, and looking in the AFC West, I don’t know if any do.

I guess what I was trying to say was this. When Royal was drafted, I thought he was a better fit inside. I thought he would be the heir-apparent to Brandon Stokley. Yes, he had a huge rookie year outside, but I never thought that was his strength. I expect Royal to have a big year.

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
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by John Bena on Jul 27, 2010 8:48 AM MDT up reply actions  

Second.

I was thrilled when Royal tore Oakland apart in the season opener in ‘08. It led a lot of us to think that perhaps Royal could do more than the slot. But John was (is) right. Over time, it has become obvious to many folks that Royal’s real prowess will be at slot, where he can cause mis-matches all day.

I’m very excited to see what Royal does at slot, as long as our QB is willing to spread the ball.

Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.

"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables

by Steve Nichols on Jul 27, 2010 8:57 AM MDT up reply actions  

You know more about football than I do. Quite a bit more.

I am trying to figure this out the best I can. Eddie Royal was awesome on the outside in 2008, but he was terrible on the outside and inside in 2009. I have no idea what happened. I’m just wondering if he should be better against nickel CBs because to me, those guys are quick enough to hang with Eddie. Not sure if they are smart or strong enough, but quickness doesn’t seem like it will be an advantage Eddie can rely upon in the slot. Again, I may be wrong.

Eddie in the slot doesn’t jump out at me like it does for many of you. Is Steve Smith a slot player?

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 27, 2010 9:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

McG..I am with you on the 'what happened to Royal in 2009'

My simple football knowledge tells me that defense’s took him away from the offense and that he now has to learn to ‘free-up’ from coverage. You know, a little push there, a little grab here, and walla, you have a two step cushion.

by DLMyers on Jul 27, 2010 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think Royal's best skill....

…is his agility. He can out turn most guys, and uses his hips to make swivels that should make most defenders fall on their butts. Of course, he’s very quick too.

I think the fall off had to do more with Orton. I think Orton was too focused on Marshall, and we just didn’t see Royal as much as we should have. Remember Scheffler? Setting aside the talk about his locker room personality (I really don’t know anything about that subject), Scheff was a terrific receiving TE who either wasn’t getting looks from Orton, or (more likely) didn’t fit in with the current offensive system. His numbers went down, through no fault of his own.

While there are several things that any QB can work on, I’d like to see Orton spread the ball around more.

Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.

"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables

by Steve Nichols on Jul 28, 2010 6:31 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

This has been an interesting discussion. This to me sums up the theory of the slot position:

So then it is a mismatch on skill and guile vs a mismatch on quickness

I always understood that it was a great place to line up superb technicians, physically limited guys (shorter, slighter, slower, or in the case of Royal, stinky at beating press coverage) and putting them in a situation where they can turn the DB inside out with a killer repetoire of micro-moves, then pull in the ball before the other guy’s physical advantages allow him to recover. Would it be weird to make a Kevin McHale analogy?

by Chibronx on Jul 27, 2010 9:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

+1

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Jul 27, 2010 11:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

In most cases you're correct...

The slot CB is generally the guy that wasn’t good enough to be on an island in one of the starter spots. The same rings true for slot receivers on a lot of teams.

Speaking to the 70% stat above, nickel packages and the slot CB are seeing the field at much higher rates, keeping in line with the upward trend of passing the ball more. Which is why I love that Pioli drafted a guy who was talented enough to play that position as a starter, rather than a byproduct of not winning one of the left or right CB spots.

The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.

by ArrowSpread on Jul 27, 2010 8:43 AM MDT up reply actions  

KC’s problem is that they pay their QB franchise money and Cassel is no more a franchise QB than Orton or Campbell.

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 27, 2010 9:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

Trying to start a debate, or what? There was no mention in my comment about anything you just said.

The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.

by ArrowSpread on Jul 27, 2010 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions  

It’s not debatable. It’s a fact. It will be interesting to see how the coaches can handle his many limitations.

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 27, 2010 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

What’s also not debatable is the fact that Cassel has, and can, perform like a top 10 QB.

Orton and Campbell you can’t really say the same for.

The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.

by ArrowSpread on Jul 27, 2010 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

Not for KC he didn’t.
You are comparing KCs apples to NE’s Ferrari.

And for the record, I don’t let MHR folks get away with using Orton’s career W-L record to point to him being a successful or Top QB.

For Denver, his team was 8-8. His team also lost all his home games in the AFC West (including KC and Los Raiders – when Orton took all the snaps).

I highly doubt Denver would trade Orton for Cassel or Campbell straight up. Not that this means much since each guy is no where near a Top 10 QB. It’s just that your’s is getting paid like one. Which is very funny to me.

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 27, 2010 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

For KC, he has not.

I’m not using Cassel’s W-L record with any team as a measure of his current, or future, success. I’m using his top 10 finish in the QB race to reinforce my statement. He can, he has, and he’s certainly capable to be a top 10 QB.

What will be interesting, as you said, is how the coaches plan on duplicating that success. If they follow the same model, it can be reasonably expected that Cassel turn out a similar result.

That said, I wouldn’t trade Orton or Campbell straight up either, because the current perception of him is his work in KC, which to this point has been garbage. There’s no way to predict whether he WILL return to that success.

My only point was that he’s certainly capable. He’s already proven as much. Just not in KC.

The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.

by ArrowSpread on Jul 27, 2010 12:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hey

Arrowspread, I got blocked for less than your debate with McGeorge on Arrowhead Pride. It just goes to show that we Broncos fans have thick skin and are classy.

Brad James

by the new Bradfather on Jul 27, 2010 2:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

Is that a Cease and Desist notice?

The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.

by ArrowSpread on Jul 27, 2010 3:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think this year will be interesting for Cassell

with McDaniels mentor in KC and all. Charlie Weis will know exactly what McDaniels did to get the production he did out of Matt Cassell at NE.
I think criticizing Cassell for last years results might be come back to haunt people this year.

I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"

by dmitchell624 on Jul 28, 2010 6:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

Telegraph from Kyle Orton

My opinion: Orton is not very deft at looking off defenders. He’ll follow his target with his eyes and helmet all the way. A few of those nasty hits, you could see coming from a mile away. That’s one skill that Brees, Manning, even Favre have developed well, to create misreads on the defense… Other QBs would use the bootleg to create doubt. Kyle does neither.

So I see you rolled your way into the semis?

by OutOfYourElement on Jul 27, 2010 9:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

Do you ever wonder if Eddie Royal doesn’t like playing with Orton? He was so awesome in 2008, but so out of synch in 2009.

It could have been the play calling, but it sure seemed to me like he and Orton had zero chemistry.

And I agree with you 100% on Orton. Orton’s lack of athleticism and inability to look off defenders are two very big reasons why I think he’ll never be a Top 10 QB. If the hasn’t picked this up in 5 NFL seasons and four years of college ball, is he going to at 28 years of age? I think Orton’s leash is going to be shorter in 2010 than many at MHR believe. It’s a good thing that our schedule starts with lightweights for the 2nd year in a row – esp good for Orton.

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 27, 2010 9:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think it’s fair to ask if Royal’s Week 1 2008 performance hasn’t skewed our expectations. The book on him coming out of college was that he was small and would have trouble with press coverage. He was glorious against the Raiders. Then he went for about 50 yards a game after that (in a pass-wacky offense, I’ll add). I’m not nuts about Orton, but if if Royal’s signature 2008 game had come in the middle of the season, I bet our expectations would be different.

by Chibronx on Jul 27, 2010 9:54 AM MDT up reply actions  

I strongly disagree with your 2008 statements and think you are very wrong.

 Take away that Raider game and Royal still had 82 catches, 4 TDs and 834 yards in 14 games back in 2008. That is a great season (esp for a rookie), not just a great game.

Royal had a 164 yard game vs Cleveland and 104 yards vs KC. He had three nine catch games and one 11 catch game. He had a 71 yard rush vs Buffalo. The guy also played just as well in December as he did in September.

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 27, 2010 10:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

Year 1 vs Year 2, or Cutler vs Orton

Which was a bigger factor? To say defenses took away Royal? They weren’t a factor in his rookie year, and his game 1 stats certainly had everyone aware that he’s a factor. No, I think Orton made him a non-factor. There just wasn’t the same chemistry that he had with Cutler.

So I see you rolled your way into the semis?

by OutOfYourElement on Jul 27, 2010 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

Everyone got mad last year when the MSM said Cutler made Royal. Turned out, that might well have been true.

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 27, 2010 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

this is crazy can you please tell me how you know Orton wasnt looking off his defender when hes in the shotgun most of the time ?

When hes in the shotgun to follow his helmet is ridiculous as he doesnt have to move his head to see the entire field because …….HES IN THE SHOTGUN . You see his eyes through his helmet ? NO WAY

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-playbook/09000d5d80b482ef/WK-4-Anatomy-of-a-Play-Extra-Orton-Eyes

and thats against non other than B-Dawk

Eddies issues underneath come from the fact that hes not very good going high or low he was mostly looking to catch everything standing straight up running acorss that middle and you just cant do that in the slot when you are not a beast like Brandon.

Watch Stoke

Watch Welker

the majority of there passes are not caught standing up but low to the ground usually sliding that saves them from the big hit and just gets the completion. because playing the slot is also about patience .

Eddie didnt have that and is something that has to be learned because the key to those underneath routes are ball placement.

The fact remains that Gaffney had no problem getting open deep and Stoke had no problem getting open underneath and they were running the same routes and that Eddie was running.

by Hoopforia on Jul 27, 2010 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions  

I'm no expert

You may have some seriously valid points with regard to body position on the catch. Maybe Royal needs to do more to prevent the hit.

I just recall (not from re-watching games I’ll admit) one too many pass where I was screaming at the TV “too late, don’t pass it there” and Orton would still make the throw, and the receiver/running back would get smeared. Orton was staring right at the receiver, so I knew where it was going. The defenders were closing in, so they knew where it was going. And he still puts it in there. Maybe its timing or quickness of delivery. Maybe a pump in a different direction makes the defender pause.

So I see you rolled your way into the semis?

by OutOfYourElement on Jul 27, 2010 10:37 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hes not supposed to have the ball long enough to throw a bunch of pump fakes .

Our offense is about making the reads prior to the snap of the ball .

the QB and the receiver have to make the same read at the LOS prior to the ball being snapped .

He sees the entire field from the shotgun without ever having to move his head and of course when he goes to deliver the ball the defense is gonna key on where he starts to deliver the ball too. Thats mainly because the ball is coming out so quick .

Our major issues are that the linebackers are not getting sucked in o the LOS because teams were able to get pressure and stop the run with simple 3-4 man rushes which means the linebackers are moving,roaming,blitzing stunting all the tricks in the book within 10 yards of the LOS .

When we are in our base package of 3 wideouts the opposing teams nickel is on the field and those other two linebackers get to do all sorts of things drop into coverage etc and that was killing our offense because it takes away 10-15 yard passes and only leaves the 5-10 yard passes where they could deliver the big hit or just sure tackling

Lat year Orton and Eddie put in extra work everyday after camp in Marshalls absence and worked fine together in the preseason .

Eddie and Gaffney split reps on the outside and Eddie was having major problem adjusting to the slot . Slot guys have to be a little crazy and Eddie was used to the cushion of playing outside the numbers .

Eddie was targeted 129 times in 2008 and Marshall 183

In 2009 Eddie was targeted 79 times(14 games) and Marshall 154

Once you take into account that he was splitting snaps with Gaffney who was also targeted 88 times not mention he was also lost snaps due to being injured and special teams.

Eddie had 8 catches over 20 yards in 2008

Gaffney had 12 catches this past year over 20 yards and that was splitting reps with Eddie .

 I fully expect Eddie to bounce back and have a great year I just dont think he was able to handle the demands of the offense last year. There is a lot of information to digest and whereas Marshall was just a huge physical freak that could impose his will without knowing the plays for guys like Eddie he needs to mimic Gaffney and Stoke .

Darrel Reid did an interview and its posted around here where he says that where a lot of offense have one check per play this offense has multiple checks for EVERY PLAY which is insane .

by Hoopforia on Jul 27, 2010 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

This gets back to the thing about Royal being a young guy

He’ll be in great shape if he keeps learning and growing…this type of stuff isn’t what we’ve seen from him and he needs to be picking up.

"Precipitation, which side are you on?
Are you on the rise? Are you falling down?
Let me know, Come on let's go, yeah
Got some if you need it!" -EV

by sadaraine on Jul 27, 2010 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions  

eddie in the hot seat?

i think gaffney would be better in the slot than as a wideout, and a better slot than eddie. if decker and thomas pan out… i don’t know. is it out of the question that eddie’s still standing when the chair music stops, maybe not right away but down the road?

by oxmouth on Jul 27, 2010 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

Very Nice

I think your spot on with the top 5 largest issues facing the Broncos.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by BShrout on Jul 27, 2010 7:54 AM MDT reply actions  

Offensive philosophy and play calling

This is one of the biggest question marks I have. Can McD grow and learn from the mistakes and ineptitude from last years offensive thrust? Can he adjust, or force, his offensive game to the defenses he sees? Can he maximize the weapons he has to keep the defense off balance? Will he air it out more? Obviously the players have to perform, but I want to see how coach has advanced and improved as well.

Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime.
"Losing stinks" - Josh McDaniels

by azbroncomaniac on Jul 27, 2010 8:17 AM MDT reply actions  

Younger coaches are more prone to do better in this area.

Older guys (me?) get set in our ways after years of seeing what has worked and what hasn’t. One of the few advantages that young coaches have is that they aren’t afraid of change to fix problems. When something goes wrong, older coaches (for the most part) often blame poor execution. Younger coaches seem to blame themselves. Couple this with the Patriots concept of “Ameoba”, and you get more adaptibility.

Consider also that the coach (in his first year) was playing the hand he was dealt. This year and next he will have more of his own tools to play with, and will have to take even more responsibility for what happens on the field. I tend to think he will do fine, and I was satisified (but not thrilled) about ‘09. I’m eager to see if ’10 shows a growing and competent coach, and hopeful for same.

Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.

"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables

by Steve Nichols on Jul 27, 2010 8:53 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Ace point. When coaches say “we need to make plays,” it’s tautological. the question is: why aren’t you making them? Younger folks are fresher and hungrier.

An analogy: People working on Ph.D’s read way more and stay far more current on the literature than do full professors. It’s the nature of striving for the brass ring. And it’s the number-one reason why I believe an NFL coach shouldn’t stay in place for too long.

by Chibronx on Jul 27, 2010 9:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

Good point...

I have been asked about not including McDaniels as one of the questions. It’s not because his performance is above dissection. I feel every coach is a question mark coming into every season – especially with all the turnover in the NFL.

In McDaniels case, l feel that he is safe no matter what happens this year. Pat Bowlen is a patient owner. He is going to give McDaniels the time necessary to fully implement his system. Only Wade Phillips got the quick hook and that was mainly because Bowlen wanted Shanahan all along.

Secondly, a coach is only as good as the answers to his team’s questions. If all of these questions end with positive answers, McDaniels is going to look like a genius. If not, well, you know. There is always a question mark on the head coach, unless he reaches Belichick status.

There are really 25 or 30 questions, and this was a high-level view meant for the more casual fan that reads the other site…

-TSG

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by John Bena on Jul 27, 2010 8:54 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Great preview John

I think you are right on target with the OL being the biggest concern. Although, I think the next biggest question is LB depth. The experience and talent seems to drop off pretty quickly after the supposed starting four.

"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."

by bchiper on Jul 27, 2010 8:30 AM MDT reply actions  

Thanks for the well written analysis, John

What I like about the D-line is not only a real NG, but a two-time All Pro in Jamal Williams, the only player who really could give our Tom Nalen fits the way he did. And Bannan brings over some of the “nasty” that I hope rubs off on the younger players.

The only question I can see at QB is Orton’s health. I don’t believe we have seen everything that he has to offer because he hasn’t had the chance – and therein lies the problem. Can he stay healthy for a season? For the Broncos’ sake, he just has to this year because reports coming out of Dove Valley suggest that a large gap exists between him and the other two. If he goes down this year, I’m afraid it will be wait until next year.

Personally, I believe a greater question lies with RB, more than WR. Can Knowshon Moreno really get it going this year? Can Correll Buckhalter continue the good runng he showed last year and stay healthy while doing it? Can the line block effectively for them? Both the performances of Orton and the WRs depend on how well the running game opens it up for them, IMO.

I look for a good season . . . IF.
-

BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!

by AZDynamics on Jul 27, 2010 8:53 AM MDT reply actions  

DL

What I think is interesting on the DL is that all 3 starters can play an effective NT if Wlliams, Bannon, and Thomas/Fields/Baker are the starters. All are used to doubleteams. So the question is how many blocker will it take to block the DL? The flip side is how effective will this group be against roll outs and such?

One of my biggest question marks this year is can Ayers/Doom contol the outside edge on runs? Especially Doom.

"Ben Roethlisburger is screwed up, he uses bathrooms for sex and golf courses for bathrooms." Unknown

by 3nS on Jul 27, 2010 9:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

Nice Post, John

That’s about how I would have written it, albeit with bigger words and way, way more typos.

The offensive line fascinates me because it is my greatest hope and greatest fear. I loved the draft moves. But I worry about the short-term adjustments and the potential for starting two rookies on day one. I mean — yikes. Depth on the OL continues to be an issue for me. Befitting the part where it was a team weakness last year, I think it’s the unit with the least depth. Especially — gulp — at tackle. Maybe Polumbus will look better on the left, and maybe Stoned-Deer-In-The-Headlights Simms made him look worse than he was last year. But watching him was painful to me. I am already thinking about spending a 2nd or a 3rd on a tackle in the draft next year. The line is paper-thin, as it has to be after such a radical overhaul.

by Chibronx on Jul 27, 2010 9:35 AM MDT reply actions  

@Chibronx..like this read. Tackle maybe a deep concern.

My hope is the All-American from Stanford Chris Marinelli. Will he ‘show-up’ at camp. It would be GREAT if he would/could.

by DLMyers on Jul 27, 2010 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

He just got cut

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.

by KaptainKirk on Jul 27, 2010 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

And thus, hope denied.

Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein

by Ponderosa on Jul 27, 2010 1:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

I was hoping that Chris Marinelli would come on in TC sufficiently to be the #1 backup at RT.

Now thathe is gone, I am hoping that someone will step up. Trying to be optimistic – I would be delighted should Harris make it past game 13 and into the playoffs at RT At any rate, there always needs to be a plan B. We need a backup RT not a backup LT that tries to get the footwork right to play RT.

John, very good post. You nailed the priorities in the upcoming camp. Thanks for your time and energy.

by Blackknigh on Jul 27, 2010 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

The Broncos have just a few short weeks to get it together...

If they want to bump ugly with the post season…We have way too many wholes to patch at this moment to be contenders or even fool ourselves into thinking that we are one! Time will tell and I really believe Josh McDaniels has the team headed in the right direction, which get’s me excited and anxious for the season to start…

by bfree2bronc on Jul 27, 2010 9:48 AM MDT reply actions  

Speaking of the DL

Remember when some of us were talking about how it would be cool to draft Terrence Cody? Glad we didn’t.

There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.

by underdog on Jul 27, 2010 9:51 AM MDT reply actions  

Champ Bailey failed conditioning last year — I wouldn’t make much of it

by Todd Jewell on Jul 27, 2010 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

Champ and Cody are completely different...

Cody is huge, Champ is not. If you are that big like Cody, you have to have some conditioning or you won’t last long. Remember Corey Srtinger? He was out of shape too and he over-exerted himself to death.

fader nation is a conquered nation

Jerry Jones is Al Davis with a smile!

CHICAGO...Where Quaterbacks' careers go to die!

by mdierk on Jul 27, 2010 10:06 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think Cody will struggle for his entire career with weight issues. There is a good reason he wasn’t a 1st round pick as a massive and effective run stuffing NT. You’d think those guys would go in the Top 5 overall.

Denver: 32-32 until we're not.

by McGeorge on Jul 27, 2010 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

Nice take on it, rec'd

Personally, I would place QBs at #5. I’m a big fan and supporter of Tebow, but there’s no real questions there, IMO, other than who will be the #2 QB – I do think it will be Tebow before the season starts – but who will play backup QB isn’t nearly as important as the changes to defensive line, IMO.

I’ll be most interested in the WRs and on the offensive line. If these high-round rookies have a great camp we could win 11 games, IMO. If they have a bad camp, we might win seven. Obviously if it lands somewhere in between, I believe so will our wins.

These offensive rookies have the roster space to be given attention and opportunity early on. With BM gone, and two interior line positions up for grabs… the early performance of these guys could really swing a lot of things… most notably, a touchdown here and there.

23-1. Determination. That which cannont be taught. The reult of finding yourself through adversity.

by Alex on Jul 27, 2010 10:52 AM MDT reply actions  

great post

Can’t wait to get these concerns all straighten out in camp and hopefully clady is ready by week one so he can anchor that O line of ours

by broncopride on Jul 27, 2010 11:19 AM MDT reply actions  

Hey

Kyle Orton keep your head up. I believe in you!

Brad James

by the new Bradfather on Jul 27, 2010 2:40 PM MDT reply actions  

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