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Things I'm Curious About

Now that the off-season is over we can start getting some of our questions answered. Heading into training camp a number of concerns are on my mind. None tops run defense. Ours was atrocious when it mattered most, at the end of the season and in the final game. I understand that the down linemen supposedly wore down and that the addition of Bannan, Williams and Green is supposed to fix that, but that's not the whole story. While having last year's starters as backups suggests the overall level of play will rise, that doesn't fully address the issue of why last year's run defense was outstanding early and wretched late. McDaniels has mentioned a number of times how badly last year's team reacted to defeat, suggesting that this was what caused losses to snowball into losing streaks. Perhaps part of what was missing on the line was veteran leadership. The offense had more reasons to decline yet fell off only modestly. It was the defense that just tanked. If young guys falling into a blue funk was part of the reason for the defense's precipitous decline, perhaps there's a second and more subtle reason for bringing in Bannan, Williams and Green. They'll be a steadying influence on the  young players and will help prevent a reoccurrence of last year's psychological meltdown.

Star-divide

But the down linemen weren't the sole cause of our run stopping difficulties. Perhaps it's merely impressionistic and not accurate, but I have this image of opposing teams ripping off big gains off tackle, pinching Peterson in and pushing Dumervil out. Peterson's been replaced but it's widely recognized that Dumervil is a run-stopping liability. Will he improve this part of his game? I doubt that he's physically overmatched at OLB the way he was at DE but he obviously has over the years focussed more on his pass rushing than his run-defense skills. Part of his run-stopping weakness may be the flip side of a pass rushing strength. Dumervil gets an explosive first step to the outside, then continues outside or cuts inside depending on the reaction of the pass blocker. If I was an opposing offensive coordinator and could catch him taking that first step to the outside, or even shifting his weight that way, on an off-tackle play that for a split-second looks like a pass, it would open up a lot of running room. If Dumervil is in fact overcommitting to the pass rush, a split-second delay might impact his sacks and hurries but might be more than made up for by him not being out of position so much on running plays. (It would be interesting to have a breakdown of where the big running plays went during our last few games.) What I'm curious about is what tack his coaches are taking in shoring up his run-stopping ability, and Dumervil's own attitude. He's pretty much a team-first guy, so I think he'll do whatever is necessary. Being in his second year as an OLB he might improve enough in his pass rush technique to negate any loss of effectiveness due to being more aware of the run.

Another thing I'm curious about is our pass defense. In an intriguing article in Maple Street Press's Broncos Annual 2010, "Broncos by the Numbers: Keys to the 2010 Season," KC Joyner notes that Dawkins and Hill were very good in pass defense, giving up 5.1 and 5.5 yards per attempt, respectively, in direct coverage. But then comes the shocker: "Denver's cornerbacks last season were simply not good." In 2006 Bailey posted one of the lowest YPA totals Joyner has seen but last year's 7.0 was 40th in the league (out of 100 qualifying cornerbacks, minimum 25 attempts to qualify). Goodman's 8.9 was 82nd. In contrast Nate Jones posted a solid 7.6 playing on one the worst secondaries in the league. Was our pass defense not as good as we thought it was? Was the low passing yards total due to teams not having to pass once our run defense collapsed? Were they more effective than the per-game yardage totals suggest when they did pass? One thing in Bailey's and Goodman's favor, whatever their YPA averages, is that they were good at not giving up the home-run ball.

Jones might well beat out Goodman for starting CB, in which case the latter might be battling it out with Smith, Cox and Thompson for the nickel spot. Joyner says Thompson is a sleeper:

An analysis I did on Thompson for ESPN.com early in the 2009 season showed that he posted superb totals when in zone coverage but did not fare well when playing man-to-man. Thompson was at one time considered to be a late-first or early-second-round selection because of his zone coverage skills, so if the Broncos adjust their defense to match his abilities, he could give them top-notch performance for many years.

McDaniels has caught a lot of flack for some of his personnel decisions, none more than for his decision to trade one of our 2010 first-round picks for the 2009 second-round pick with which he took Alphonso Smith. Those who see his selection, and to a lesser degree that of Robert Ayers, as mistakes are in my mind missing the point. A coach needs to be a good judge of talent and play the odds. Probably even the best evaluators aren't going to do much better than 50-50. If you can manage to make lots of early round picks, that helps the odds. A first-round "failure" might still be a longterm productive player. If you see a player you really like, like Smith, and have a resource to spend, I have no problem with McDaniels spending it. Whether or not Smith works out, whether or not any particular player works out, is beside the point. Over the last two years McDaniels has acquired Goodman and Jones and has drafted Smith, Cox and Thompson, in addition to free agents Carter and Vaughn. Goodman has already worked out and Jones is similarly a known quantity, and of the rest if McDaniels is a good judge of potential two or three will turn into solid or better pros. But it doesn't matter which two or three, and it misses the point to agonize over which pick produced which prodigy or bust. One of the things I'm curious about, of course, is which of these guys makes the team. Will Thompson's zone excellence open up for him a quasi-specialist slot? Will Smith follow up on his reputedly excellent off-season? Can Cox or Carter beat the numbers? Does Vaughn have a ghost of a chance?

I'm sure we're all curious about the offensive line, and about the productivity, especially early, of the offense. Not only is Marshall gone his replacements, Thomas and Decker, are noobies. Like several others I think the move to more of a two-back offense is at least partly an attempt to address the line's expected early growing pains. Branson being the back-up fullback suggests how much stress is being put on the blocking back position, and suggests to me that he probably should be added to those who have a roster lock. In fact, he's gaining on Quinn. His blocking seems to be improving more rapidly than Quinn's receiving. I'm not expecting much of a contribution from Thomas or Decker, although Decker might surprise. I see Royal and Gaffney and either McKinley or Stokley taking up the slack. I think their numbers will improve sufficiently to offset the loss of Marshall, and in spite of the unsettled line, because I think Orton is going to be that much better. On any given pass play probably at least one guy is open, and I think Orton will be better and quicker at finding that guy this year. And Moreno will be making better, quicker choices and hit open rather than closed holes more often. And by the end of the year, with Clady and Harris settled in along with Kuper, with Hochstein, Beadles and Walton holding down center and left guard, the offense will be running on all cylinders.

This year, with the performance of last year's rookie crop and the early returns on this one, we'll begin to get a sense of how good a picker McDaniels is and what he takes into account. I'm surprised at some of the things that seemingly aren't taken into account when organizations give millions of dollars to dazzling young prospects. Was it the entire NFL or just Oakland that didn't know that JaMarcus Russell was lazy? Did they think they could teach him not to be? I hope the individual's work ethic is something McDaniels knows about and takes seriously when he evaluates players. At least one of his selections, Tebow, suggests that he does. In a league in which hard work is the norm his legendary work ethic still stands out.

McDaniels really seems to value special teams ability. I used to get the impression in training camp that Shanahan kept and cut players purely on how they played at their nominal positions, then looked at the pieces he had on hand in order to make out special teams assignments. McDaniels seems more willing to keep or cut players, who aren't starters at their nominal positions, based on their special teams ability. After all, if two players are competing for a reserve linebacker spot in which capacity the winner will rarely if ever see the field, and the slightly lesser linebacker is the vastly superior special teams player, who would you keep? In the final analysis the linebacker job is emergency backup. It's the starting special teams job that they're primarily competing for. A McDaniels-built team appears to be an intricate mechanism, with players competing for starting jobs in one or more specialist packages. I'm curious about how many and which player decisions will be driven by special teams concerns. I think our special teams, after having improved dramatically last year, will take another step forward this year. I think the Broncos, despite the injuries to Moreno and Buckhalter and despite lingering uncertainties, will do well. I see 10-6 after a strong finish, but first I see a training camp with lots of great battles.

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

Comment 30 comments  |  15 recs  | 

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Nice post, spock!

in fact, “fascinating”. I resonated strongest to the discussion regarding Phonz; I agree that it truly is the overall pattern of production from the draft picks that matters- it’s just hard to not look at the details of how they emerged. Second strongest resonation was to the statement that by the end of this year we will know much more about how good of a talent evaluator McD really is. I a not saying it is a make or break deal, as a head coach builds such an intricate mechanism that other factors may compensate (another nice phrase for how I view things) ….It will be a very revealing year.

by idahobronc on Aug 1, 2010 5:22 PM MDT reply actions  

But it doesn’t matter which two or three, and it misses the point to agonize over which pick produced which prodigy or bust.

Yep! I’ll be interested and anxious to see an average after another year, or so. Like most, I’m probably more vested in one over another, have my favorites and such. But in the end, we just need half of these guys to work out.

Really great post. Thanks and rec’d.

It's just about time for us to get out there and win a MF Game!

by Alex on Aug 1, 2010 5:25 PM MDT reply actions  

The Chapm/Goodman bit had my jaw on the floor

With that info on hand, I’m fully in agreement with the explanation that the reason it wasn’t noticed was that teams didn’t have to pass due to the run defense. Oy.

Outside of that, I agree with pretty much everything you said about the defense and pretty nothing about the offense. I’m expecting the defense to have to carry this team as far as it can.

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you.

by improv88 on Aug 1, 2010 6:42 PM MDT reply actions  

I don't really disagree

I’m more optimistic about the offense than you are (mainly because of Orton) but I’m more confident in the defense and wouldn’t be at all surprised to see it carrying the offense early. Not so sure it’ll need to carry it for the whole season, though, nor am I sure that it can.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Aug 2, 2010 6:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

The DBs also had to concentrate on run defense.

Part of what I saw was that the DBs were often positioned and reacting to run defense as a first priority. Not good for pass coverage to have to make that kind of adjustment. Yet overall, they seemed more productive than the other parts of the defense. Just saying.
Good article, BTW. Rec’d

by ivanthenotsobad on Aug 1, 2010 6:48 PM MDT reply actions  

thanks for the read, spock

i have one question.
why do we keep using terms like “starter” and “backup” when referring to our d-line? don’t we use a rotation? i know that someone has to be first on the depth chart, but that thing is just a snapshot.
for example, take the rDE spot. i don’t think one could project either green or mcbean the starter. we’re doing situational football here in denver now, and depending on the situation, one of those two will be on the bench (perhaps both).
again, i grant that only one man will be on the field at each position on the first play of the season, but i see a few “backups”, especially on the d-line, contributing as much this year as the “starters”.

as long as you're paying attention

by neurospasm on Aug 1, 2010 9:22 PM MDT reply actions  

Partly we use "starter" and "backup" out of habit

but also because it makes a difference to the players. Designating one as starter and another as backup has financial ramifications, but I suspect its main significance for the players is that being the starter carries more status. Jamal Williams might well end up playing fewer minutes at nose tackle than his so-called backup, but calling him the starter and having him in when the game starts is the football way of saying he’s the best player on the team at that position. It would be nice, however, if we more overtly acknowledged that there are more than 22 starters on a team. For each package (including special teams) in which, barring injury, a given player is expected to be on the field, that player is a starter. Anytime a player is on the field not to relieve someone but because he’s supposed to be on the field in that defense or offense or situation, he’s a starter.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Aug 2, 2010 7:53 AM MDT up reply actions  

Great take on starter vs. backup

I struggle with the idea that there are exactly 22 starters on offense and defense on a team. If your first play of the game is a 5 WR set from the opposing offense, you’re going to be ‘starting’ at least 3 corner-backs, and maybe 4. Pretty much all NFL teams face that reality these days.

by BroncosBassist on Aug 2, 2010 9:38 AM MDT up reply actions  

thanks

as long as you're paying attention

by neurospasm on Aug 3, 2010 6:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

I always love reading your work Spock. Rec'd!

"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."

"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.

Quitter's People United Member #18

by Tempestuous Binary on Aug 1, 2010 9:35 PM MDT reply actions  

Thanks!!

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Aug 2, 2010 7:53 AM MDT up reply actions  

Is there a site where i can learn more about your team.

That way I’m more informed about them when i comment. Like this Chiefs site? http://www.kcchiefs.com/home.html

by CPT.Caveman on Aug 1, 2010 11:51 PM MDT reply actions  

milehighreport.com

or you could try:

;D

"It's the first time that I've probably ever seen a 260 pound back run into a free safety and go flat on his back, I mean it was exciting." ~John Elway

by jibbons on Aug 2, 2010 12:21 AM MDT up reply actions  

http://www.denverbroncos.com/

"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."

"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.

Quitter's People United Member #18

by Tempestuous Binary on Aug 2, 2010 12:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

Nice work, Spock. Thanks for your time and energy.

Just a comment about how the New York Yankees of the 1950s used to instill the confidence of winning into theplayers that they were developing thru their farm system. This is back in the days of AAA down to class D. At least 6 teams. And this information is at least 40 years old so it could have someholes in it.

They would “load” one of their teams so that they would not only win most of their games but also expect to win every game. I heard that this was what developed the so-called Yankee Pride of that era.

Being successful and expecting to be successful has a way of perpetuating itself. Just a thought about our team. Not sure it applies but I felt that I should mention it.

Thanks again, Spock.

by Blackknigh on Aug 2, 2010 12:22 AM MDT reply actions  

I think it applies

One reason the Broncos went into a tailspin was the lack of that kind of confidence. One way or another (the Yankee way was ingenious!) McDaniels needs to instill a similar mentality in the Broncos.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Aug 2, 2010 7:59 AM MDT up reply actions  

Great job Spock!

You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!

"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"

Harv Neptune.

by boydy2669 on Aug 2, 2010 3:04 AM MDT reply actions  

Thanks, Boydy

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Aug 2, 2010 8:08 AM MDT up reply actions  

careful of individual stats out of context...

While the high YPA numbers for Champ/Goodman are definitely interesting, I’d be careful about interpreting them in isolation of scheme and the defense performance in general.

For example, I don’t know how many targets each had attributed to them (i’m guessing ~100), but lets say each had one “bomb” of 70 yards given to them, when they were supposed to have had safety help over the top…. it may have been their guy who scored, but by giving those 70 yards to the CB vs. the safety that wasn’t there, the CB YPA goes up ~.7, while the safety’s number is the same amount artificially depressed.

Also, given the consistent difference between the safeties and CBs, that could well be a scheme effect where the CBs are given more responsibility for deep coverage while the safeties crash the flats, etc. It’d be interesting to see the numbers for McBath, Law, etc. to see whether the trend continues for the other palyers. However, given the overall effectiveness of the pass defense, I’m not worried about this at all.

Cover schemes are so fluid that its almost impossible to correctly assign yardage, etc… If its a long term trend, where a CB consistently is giving up big chunks of yards, or soemthing you see on tape (CBs looks a step slow, etc.) I’d start to worry, but given the generally good rep that Champ and Goody have, I’d take any individual seasons YPA with a huge grain of salt.

That said, we have old guys in the secondary, and eventually/sooner/later they will lose a step. Its nice we have some promising young talent behind them so that when it happens, we hopefully won’t miss a beat.

by cjfarls on Aug 2, 2010 3:56 AM MDT reply actions  

I realize there are possible reasons Champ's coverage skills

might be better than that stat indicates, and suggested one in an earlier response:

We don’t know for sure how Bailey and Goodman were used. If they were put on an island a lot so we could give help elsewhere, for instance on blitzes and in run support, that might have inflated their averages.

I don’t necessarily think a lot of misattribution is happening, for instance as to whose man it was on a 70-yard pass play. I’m willing to accept Joyner’s ability to determine coverage by analyzing film, so I’m at least tentatively accepting the numbers as valid. But do they tell us what they seem to? For reasons you’ve given, and some that I’ve given, they might not. Dawkins’ and Hill’s numbers are surprisingly low. I hadn’t thought pass defense was Dawkins’ forte. Maybe McDaniels’ defense functions in such a way that the corners have more responsibility, or a larger area of responsibility, in coverage. That would compensate for the safeties’ lesser coverage skills, but as a consequence the corners would give up more yards and look worse on the stats. What this might tell us, if McDaniels is having the corners help the safeties, either directly or (more likely) indirectly, is that they’re helping a little too much.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Aug 2, 2010 9:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think that the defense is molded to fit the abilities of its players, rather than the other way around. As an example, perhaps Champ and Goodman were given much wider responsibilities in pass coverage due to the safeties’ lesser coverage skills. But what happens if and when McBath takes over for one of them? It’s pretty widely accepted that he excels at pass coverage – particularly for a safety. Will more of the field fall on his shoulders, freeing up the corners to be more aggressive in their own coverage?

As a related question, does anyone know whether Hill has a good reputation in pass coverage?

by BroncosBassist on Aug 2, 2010 10:04 AM MDT up reply actions  

When i first came to MHR

I jokingly asked Kirk If he had seen Spock, little did I know there was a Spock:P

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.

by CPT.Caveman on Aug 3, 2010 12:45 AM MDT reply actions  

Very logical that Kirk would have seen Spock

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Aug 3, 2010 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

I remeber that

That was funny.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.

by KaptainKirk on Aug 3, 2010 8:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

LOL

Remember the number i gave you to tell him to call? 876-5309 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBHJqtgo8RA&feature=related

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.

by CPT.Caveman on Aug 3, 2010 9:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

You know

that went right over my head because I thought you seriously wanted to get a hold of him. I was trying to oblige and didn’t give the number a second glance. That kind of makes it even funnier.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.

by KaptainKirk on Aug 3, 2010 11:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

LOL, i know.

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.

by CPT.Caveman on Aug 4, 2010 1:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

10-6 with a strong finish??

I like the sound of that. That’s an opinion that I’m positive very few share with you… but the more I think about it, the more likely it becomes. Many of our concerns across the board on this team will be most pivotal early in the season (key players returning from injury and rookies we need now experiencing a learning curve). Later in the season the rookies should have a better knack for their roles and the injured veterans should be up to full speed. Our only big late-season concern is a worn down defense – which has been acknowledged and handled primarily with Free Agency. Just the bigger bodies alone translates to more work for the opposing team to push around – which is less wear and tear on the rest of our D linemen (the rotation from last year: McBean, Fields, Thomas, Baker, Smith, etc).

On paper alone this team looks better in the late season, but has legitamate concerns early on. I have a feeling we may just pull a San Diego this year and stink it up early then come back with a vengence. Assuming San Diego lives up to its reputation the last few years… I would expect to see a VERY important week 17 game @ Invesco. Our division looks tougher this year and it will be a challenge to split with our division opponents again this year.

Love your logic Spock. Let’s hope our team comes out of the gate with the same attitude they did last year. Maybe all the energy and passion early on will make up for deficiencies on our offense (with RBs, OL, and WRs coming back from injury and rookies learning the speed of the game).

"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in his own eyes. What matters is not what I think of him; it is what he thinks of himself." - Antoine de Exupery

by Alexander Wall on Aug 3, 2010 12:57 AM MDT reply actions  

Yes, offensive line coming together,

guys coming back and working off the rust from injury, bigger bodies and more depth on the D-line and rookies finding their footing — all that explains why I think we’ll finish more strongly than we start, plus one more factor. Coaches have to learn to pace themselves and by extension their teams, to avoid super highs and lows and peaking too early. By definition a team can’t always be at peak intensity any more than all children can be above average. As paradoxical as the idea of not giving that last ounce of intensity and effort every play, every game seems, teams that consistently finish strong must, in some sense, be holding something back, saving it for the stretch run. I think last year’s team came out so intense and played so far above their heads they were bound to hit a wall. By mid-season they were emotionally spent. McDaniels is amazingly precocious. He’ll learn a lot from his first year as coach, and I think one of the things he’ll learn is how to build momemtum gradually over the course of a season, with everything coming together at the right time.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Aug 3, 2010 12:18 PM MDT reply actions  

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