Cincy vs Denver Analysis
by Nick Cast on Aug 16, 2010 4:59 AM MDT
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PrintThere is no greater feeling in the world then watching your favorite football team on a Sunday afternoon. I know because I woke up yesterday in the best mood I've been in since draft day. Sunday was the 1st preseason game and it left me wanting happy, sad, and wanting more.
So lets not delay. Let's jump right into it:
The Good
Oh how much can change in a year. One year ago, Kyle had a terrible 1st pre season game and many fans were calling for his head. On Sunday, Orton played arguably his best football as a Bronco. He went 8 for 13, 84 yards and 2 TD's. He was very comfortable under center. He looked poised. During a goal line attempt, the play was designed to be a run. Instead, he read the coverage, changed the play, and Lloyd found himself a TD in the endzone. Kyle is the unquestioned starter of the Broncos. He tore apart a well respected Cincinnati defense. Imagine what he can do with his starting running back, backup running back, and rookie wide receivers Demayrius Thomas and Eric Decker.
Champ Bailey is one of the best CB's in the league. Anyone who disagrees is just plain ignorant. On Sunday night, Champ made clutch play after clutch play. He batted away 2 passes and stopped T.O. from crossing the 1st down line during a 4th and 2. He looks mid season form already. If he plays like this for the rest of the season, he can expect a nice, fat contract in the near future.
Robert Ayers did not record a single tackle during Sundays game. So why is he in the Good section? Because he was a force from the OLB position. From the start of the game, Robert was bull rushing Carson Palmer. He was even pressuring him after Cincinnati started double teaming him. The problem is that Denver is without Elvis Dumervil and Jarvis Moss. Someone needs to step up because Robert Ayers is doing his job. He is pressuring the qb quite successfully. Drawing double teams means that someone should be able to get to the qb. Haggan, Moss, Alexander, Kirlew, someone needs to step up.
J.D.Walton and Zane Beadles
These 2 rookies did a solid job. In their first taste of their NFL, they played the whole game. J.D. had a couple of errant snaps and Zane got beat a couple of times, but these two were solid for their first game, J.D. in particular. I was watching J.D. for awhile and most of the times I saw him, he was able to hold his man at the line. All those training sessions with Jamal Williams are paying off.
Branson was a very silent contributor on Sunday. However, I took notice of what he was able to do and I was impressed. He was a smooth route runner and a reliable target for every QB. I believe that he is going to be an underrated contributor this year. I wasn't watching his blocking too much, but his receiving skills left a good impression on me. I love me those under the radar guys who are perfect for those 3rd and 5 situations.
Matt Willis
Poor guy. He gets rave reviews from TC and the first thing he does wrong was at the worst opportune moment. Willis dropped a deep pass from Tim Tebow that would have gotten Bronco Country on it's feet. It was a beautiful deep ball that dropped right into Willis' hands. He just couldn't hold on. However, it shouldn't take away from the impact Willis had. Willis caught two passes for 54 yards. Both passes were from Quinn. He was also responsible for making a Bengals defender draw a passing interference call. I like what I saw from Willis. I want to see more next week.
Tim Tebow
Tebow threw 8 for 13, 105 yards and 1 rushing TD. His stats would have been better if not for a couple of drops by Willis and Branson (which was debatable in the end zone). Tebow's mechanics did not looked much improved. Were they better then what they were in Florida? Yes. But he still has a long way to go. He is going to get the ball stripped if he doesn't tighten up his release. But, for the most part, I really liked what I saw from Tebow. Although, I was scared after he took that last hit. Tebow is who we thought he was. He is one tough competitor. Most 3rd string QB's would have thrown the ball into traffic while trying to avoid pressure hoping a WR would make a play. Tebow decided to tuck the ball and plow into the endzone. That is what makes him Tim Tebow. Although, I would like him to not do that too much. If that had been Ray Lewis on the other end of the hit, he would not have came away from that unscathed.
The Bad
Brady was terrible. He was an abysmal 6 for 16, 68 yards and 1 interception that was returned for a touchdown. He often locked onto 1 receiver and overthrew several throws. He looked like the QB that Cleveland traded away without a second thought. To his credit, Quinn did settle down a bit and led a field goal drive to end the 1st half. Brady is a work in progress. His time in Cleveland messed him up and he is trying to get back on track. He is a hard worker and he will progress. He just needs time and reps. Unfortunately for him, Tim Tebow is knocking right on his door. Brady might find himself on the 3rd string sooner then he would like.
Oh man. I was really hoping I would be able to put Phonz in the good side. Unfortunately, Phonz was bad. Really bad. He led the team in tackles (6), but he missed several tackles and was lost in coverage too many times for comfort. This is his second season, he should be much better then he was last year. He looked like he regressed. I won't be too harsh since it was the 1st pre season game, but his bad play is troublesome to say the least.
Perrish has gotten rave reviews all Summer. Unfortunately, he did not show why during the first game. He was beat several times in coverage and he averaged the least amount in kick returns (20). He didn't have as bad of a day as Alphonso. There were a couple of plays that Cox positioned himself perfectly so the WR couldn't get the ball. Those were good plays. But other then that, his 1st game was one to forget.
Nathan Jones
Nathan Jones was brought in as one of the best nickel corners. He was supposed to improve our nickel packages. After watching the 1st game, I don't see the hype...at all. Nate was beat in coverage and was the recipient of a penalty that cost Denver 15 yards (blocking a player out of bounds). He was also juked badly by an easy move on the sidelines that resulted in 10-20 extra yards. The 1st pre season game is used to rub the dust off and get the wheels moving again. Maybe Nate has more dust then others, but him, Phonz, and Cox have to step it up.
Special Teams Tackling
Ugly. Sloppy. Terrible. All words to describe our special teams coverage last night. There were too many missed tackles to count. It seemed every time our special teams went onto the field, someone missed a tackle. Special Teams standout Darcell McBath left due to injury and I don't remember seeing special teams gunner David Bruton in the second half. Special Teams needs to tighten it up since we play in a division that includes Darren Sproles, Javier Arenas, Dexter McCluster, and Jacoby Ford.
3rd and 4th team Players
The problem with the Denver Broncos is they are way too injured. Most of their 2nd teamers were starting in place for their injured 1st teamers. Behind the 2nd teamers is a bunch of players who are a mess. They are sloppy and need to improve. I am pleased with our 1st and 2nd team players. I am displeased with the sloppy and lazy play of our 3rd and 4th team players. There was almost no effort by those 3rd and 4th string players.
Running Game
Our running game was almost nonexistent on Sunday. The total number of running plays was 15. 4 of them were QB scrambles. Lance Ball ran 6 times for 27 yards. He had nice runs of 10 and 7. Bruce Hall ran 5 times for -3 yards. Toney Baker and Justin Fargas didn't run the ball once. I don't know why we didn't run the ball on Sunday, but it is troubling. Orton is not going to be able to carry the team by himself. He needs some production from the RB's. I am hoping to see a lot more running next Sunday since Fargas would have a full week of studying under his belt.
Players I Would Like To See More Of:
He had a beautiful curl route that he took in for a touchdown. However, he didn't catch another ball. He wasn't even targeted other then the TD pass. I like seeing the ball in his hands, but I can't give Eddie big props for 1 catch in which he was led perfectly by Orton. I want to see Eddie make explosive plays before I am ready to say "08 Eddie is back".
Jammie had 1 of the teams 2 sacks. He was giving some good pressure when the 2nd teamers were in the game. He had a decent game, but I want to see him play a little more in coverage and against the run. So far, I liked what I saw, but I want to see more.
Kevin was an undrafted free agent but he played with passion today. I noticed him several times get into the back field and apply some pressure. Like Ayers, he didn't get any tackles, but I liked the pressure he applied. I hope he gets some more looks next week.
If there is one person I want to see more of, it's Joe Mays. I really liked what I saw from Mays. He really does look like Mike Tyson. The dude is BUFF. He finished with 3 tackles and 1 assist. I saw him being very active against the run. The knock on him coming from Philly was his pass coverage. I remember one play when Jermaine Gresham ran a comeback route right in front of Mays. Gresham caught the ball, but Mays had great reactive instincts and hit Gresham .1382344 seconds after he got the ball. I can't wait to see Mays again next week. He is very intriguing.
Baratka Atkins
Atkins was very active on Sunday. He accumulated 4 tackles and 1 sack. He was applying some decent pressure and was constantly around the ball. He is competing with Mays for the ILB position. I want to see more of them next week.
Woodyard started the game today. He played pretty well. He had 4 tackles and 1 assist on the day. He was very quick to get to the ball. However, I didn't see him apply much pressure to the QB. Maybe it was the play calling, or maybe it wasn't. But if he is going to be a contributor and possibly a starter, he needs to apply more pressure on the QB. Ayers can't do it alone. Someone has to step up.
This kid really impressed me. He notched just 1 assist on the day, but it wasn't his defense that impressed me. I was very surprised by how shifty he was in his returns. He returned 3 balls for a 25 yard average. Twice he returned kicks for 28 yards. 1 time in particular he was 1 block away from blazing up the left sideline. Vaughn should be keeping his eye on Tony Carter. If he could stay even close to his level, Vaughn should get the nod due to his impressive return skills. At the very least, he will be on our PS.
Final Thoughts:
When all is said and done, it's just the 1st pre season game. There is no need to be concerned until we start to see a pattern. Is Brady Quinn consistently overthrowing his receivers by 10 yards? Is D'Anthony Batiste consistently being bullied on the line? Is Nate Jones consistently losing his man? None of these questions can be answered after 1 game, but these questions will serve as a good base for the next game. I enjoyed watching the 1st pre season game with you guys and I can't wait till we play Detroit on Sunday.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Good write up and rec'd.
Why do we care so mush about Tebows mechanics? Did he get the ball out on time…yes, did he throw a good accurate ball…yes, did it get form him to the reciever hitting him in the hands or at least catchable…for the most part. Tebow will be fine. He will impervise and make plays…thats Tebow. We will see some of the old throwing motion from time to time, but he will get the job done. I would like to see him against the 2nd or even the 1st string units during the peaseason. Would give us a better assessment of how he can handle the NFL. But for his first game he did more then expected IMO.
Orton looked ready for the season, good things are going to happen. And no Marshall…no problem. Eddie looked like Eddie of 2008, not 2009. Eddie could catch 100 balls this year and I wouldn’t be surprised. Add in Gaffney and Lloyd, we have 3 good wide outs to start the year and we can take our time with Bey-Bey and Decker. Hopefully Walton and Beadles playing the whole game was the only time they have to do that this preseason. We don’t need them fading down the stretch. Branson and Willis looked like keepers to me, minus a couple of drops. It looked like Kirlew and Atkins could step it up this year and get more playing time. Champ looks ready for a great year.
Doesn't Big Ben hold the ball too long?
He’s won 2 superbowls with his shady mechanics, although in comparison to our great Elway, he compares better (on the field at least) to him according to a lot of “Experts”. Afterall, Big Ben himself said he always idolized Elway, which is why he wears #7 today.
Tebow looked a lot like Elway while playing last night in my opinion. Especially when he rolled out to the right and winged it down field (opposite of his throwing arm which most QB’s can’t do). That final touchdown run looked like Elway as well. Not that Tebow should be in Elway’s shadow, but it all looked too familiar thats for sure!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
I wouldn't say Ben won those two Super Bowls
And he’s hardly an elite quarterback. Ben won those games on his defense, and one great play of his. Now he’s a big, tough player, with similar body type to Tebow, but he makes smart decisions on the field, but if you took away his defense those two years and made it average, I don’t think he would have been able to win the Super Bowl.
As for the Elway comparisons, come on, please. He may run a bit like Elway, but he isn’t the cannon arm he was, he’s a different personality, he’s his own player, and that’s how it should be.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
No I agree
But thats why they say Defenses win championships. I don’t think I can recall a superbowl champion with a #20 defense can you? Championship teams usually have a top 10 defense, and more likely than not a top 5.
The Elway comparisons were based on the fact that he holds onto the ball a bit until a play materializes, much like Elway used to do. I made no reference to a strong arm, although I don’t think Big Ben has a weak one by any means. I dont believe it is stronger than Elway’s was however. And yes, he runs it a bit like Elway.
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
I think he holds the ball too long
For two reasons, he is still adjusting to NFL reads, which is too be expected, and also i mean that his release it too slow. As for defense, I think it can win championships, but so can elite quarterbacks, or a good quarterback with a good defense, which is kind of where we are now.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Aug 16, 2010 10:06 AM MDT up reply actions
Agreed
I think we are there now tho. Orton looked All-Pro in the couple of drives he was in. I know that doesn’t translate to a full game or full season, but he’s definitely an improvement over last year, and last year he was no slouch!
Our defense I have been a firm believer is a top 10 when fully healthy. But last night has me believing for the moment that we are top 10 even without Doom or Dawkins on the field. That is great to know too! If our #1 defense can play like they did last night all season long, it’s going to be a great year considering the Bengels are a high powered offense!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
re: "holding the ball too long"
Yes, he did, although it wasn’t a problem on all his throws. It’s unrealistic to expect a Marino-like release but a slow release causes problems on some plays — and it did. He still looked better than Quinn, though.
I invite people to watch the game once again tonight on NFL channel and examine whether he does or not. (that’s 10:00 MDT)
12:00 AM
NFL PRESEASON GAME: DEN vs. CIN
2010 NFL Preseason Game: Denver Broncos vs. Cincinnati Bengals
"the megalomaniac view of oneself as the Elect, wholly good, abominably persecuted, yet assured of ultimate triumph; the attribution of gigantic and demonic powers to the adversary; the refusal to accept the ineluctable limitations and imperfections of human existence, such as transience, dissention, conflict, fallibility whether intellectual or moral; the obsession with inerrable prophecies…systematized misinterpretations, always gross and often grotesque." – Norman Cohn - cited in The Paranoid Style in American Politics
I made the comment
that I still agree with btw….
As far as looking mechanically, Quinn looks smooth. But once the ball leaves his hands its like a kid with Do……..er…..it looks horrible because he can’t get his accuracy down.
Maybe it was just one of those days…I played pitcher in baseball for several years and occasionally you have a day where you just can’t find the strikezone…Of course that is usually accompanied by an ump who tightens the zone into a 1 square foot box in the batters sweetspot….
but I digress, I think Quinn looked wonderful as far as his pocket presence (for the most part) and his mechanics….but after seeing him throw? UGH lets not do THAT again.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
And I understand that
He’s a rookie, I don’t expect him to meet all my expectations, he was also not behind the starting offensive line, but then again he wasn’t throwing against starting DB’s or avoiding the rush from a starting front seven. I rewatched the game last night on NFL Network, and he made some great throws, especially the one late in the 4th quarter while running right and throwing left handed, great throw. But it should noted that after rewatching it, I did see Tebow either almost get hit, hit or sacked on most of his snaps. Part of the fault was line, but it also had to do with his lack of awareness in the pocket and release speed.
Now he’s a rookie, I was expecting a few problems, but if anyone says he looked good in the pocket, I’m not sure what they were watching.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Also, Jordon Palmer looked a bit like Elway
With his sweet run and flip move.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Aug 16, 2010 10:09 AM MDT up reply actions
Jordan Palmer looked like Carsen
just about 4 lbs heavier lol
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
Carson would never run
Not on that knee of his, but yes, he is a bit bigger then Carson. But you know whose big, T.O., after seeing pictures against Baily, he towers over him, there’s a reason big receivers like him will have place in the game, even if they lose their burst, which I don’t think T.O. has.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Aug 16, 2010 10:22 AM MDT up reply actions
tell me about it!
Carson used to run in college from what I can recall tho. He stopped after a couple of hits in the pros.
But man, TO is huge. Although I was highly impressed with our first team last night. They were going against a good QB and probably the most impressive set of wideouts that they will see all year. Great job on our defenses part.
Oh, and that muffed field goal attempt for Cincy – anyone else hear that guy scream during a dead silent audience right when he went to kick it? You think he heard that? lol
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
Most impressive WRs? really?
If it was 2005, I would agree with you…. however, lets not exagerrate here. Did you watch these guys at all last year? TO and ochocinco’s best days are behind them… they MAY still be solid (I’ll give the benefit of the doubt), but they are not dominant by any stretch. Behind them Caldwell is replacement level at best. Who plays TE?
Just this year the following teams we play are distinctly better at WR… add TE and its not even close:
Indy – Wayne, Gonzalez/Collie/Garcon + Clark
HOU – AJ (probably best receiver in the game), Walter, J.Jones, Anderson + Daniels
Jets – Cotchery, Holmes (will be back by week 6) and Edwards + supporting cast
You could also make a decently strong case for Balt, AZ, SD (particularly if VJax is playing) or even SF if Crabtree takes a step forward.
perhaps they were behind last season due to the fact that
they did not have a load of talented wide receivers around them?
TO and OchoCinco were consistently in double coverage. Double coverage eliminates a lot of throws to them. Now, teams cannot just focus on each one singly, they must focus on the entire wide receiving crew just as they have to with the teams you mentioned above.
So they may not be the MOST talented, but they are up there with the most talented. Truly, its a matter of opinion, and just like belly buttons, everyone has one, including you and me cj
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
TO played with L.Evans last year
…if I actually could sit through the pain of a Buffalo game, I bet I could count the times TO got double coverage on one hand.
Evans is one of the most dangerous deepthreat players in the league, and constantly puts up good metrics/stats even with bad QB play and flotsam and jetsam lined up across from him. TO did NOTHING to open up the field for him.
Ochocinco you may have a valid point…
I do think Cincy has one of the best WR corp in the leage
T.O., Bryant and Caldwell all are at a 2nd WR level, but most will be going against nickel backs or safeties. Indy might be tied with them, but Manning makes his receiver look a bit better then they are.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Aug 17, 2010 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions
I'll give you Indy and the Texans...
but the Jets’s corps is better than Cincy’s? Now you’re just buying into the east-coast bias that says that the Jets are an absolute superpower everywhere on both sides of the ball because the finally made the playoffs for the first time in forever. I’m really getting tired of that narrative, by the way, and really looking forward for them to fail this year.
Quitter's People United Member #396
Because Montana has no professional sports, I gotta support the land of my birth.
Socrates was once executed for 'trolling'.
^Needs explaining: don't call someone asking uncomfortable, slightly antagonistic questions *for the purpose of learning* trolls. It's real easy to differentiate a 'Socratic' post from a trolling one.
but yes
that was one heck of a move! Could have broken his neck on it, but it was still fun to watch!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
The problem with mechanics
Is that his release is too slow. Rivers had a mechanics problem, but he gets the ball out lightning fast, against a good pass rush, Tebow may be hurried more often. Now I think Tebow outplayed my expectations, he made some great throws, but his release is slow, he did look a bit lost on a few plays, not too often, and like Nick said, if it had been a starting linebacker, like Lewis or any other stronger linebacker, he might be a bit slower to get up, but it was a nice run, and a touchdowns a touchdown.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
True
He may give up a few fumbles that could be contributed to a slower release and exposing the ball. True.
However, compare that to how many sacks he avoids, first downs he can get by scrambling/running and throws he can make that other QBs can’t, and what’s the aggragate outcome?
In other words, if we look at the whole picture, he can still be a great QB. So can Orton, but he looks different.
Orton has a quicker release, so fewer “release fumbles,” but while he has picket awareness, he just can’t escape like Tebow can, so he’ll give up a few more fumbles from the backside because he’s in a crumbling pocket. If he does run to the left to escape, he can’t make a powerful throw across his body, so he’ll either throw it away and punt (on 3rd down) or run out of bounds (or throw an Int.)
So really, two different styles, yes, and clearly…I mean…clearly, Orton is the starter. But if you look at the larger picture, each QB’s deficiencies AND their strengths, then they can be equally good, just different in style.
That, to me, if why Tebow’s release isn’t THAT big of a deal. The media’s fascination with that is narrowly focused and simpleton. It is never that simple.
by Mhantra on Aug 16, 2010 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
scrambling QBs avoiding sacks is complete fallacy
They take more sacks, not less than pocket QBs. This is almost universally true…. Good pocket QBs avoid sacks by sliding in the pocket and getting the ball out fast. Scrambling QBs do NOT avoid sacks… but they do keep plays going longer opening the opportuinity for big plays, however that is balanced by also leading to more sacks. Think Elway vs. Marino.
The balance (positive or negative) between the big plays vs. increased sacks is the true measure of a scrambling QB…. but to pretend scrambling QBs avoid sacks just flies in the face of the reality of every scrambling QB that ever played the game, from Fran Tarkenton to Elway to current guys like Vick/Garcia/V.Young.
I do think that is what you were trying to say so don’t really disagree, but I take issue with the language you used.
It also has a big deal with the final analysis…. Tebow’s bad mechanics matter, because his slow release means not only does his big-play ability have to counter-balance his increased sacks, it also has to counter-balance his deficiencies as a pocket QB (getting the ball out fast). For example, Elway didn’t have a perfect pocket form, but he wasn’t a liability in the pocket either. He was maybe “Eli Manning”-quality in the pocket (Not Peyton), with the added bonus of his “big play” ability.
Tebow right now is at best “Byron Leftwich” in pocket… to be a good NFL starter and not just long-term backup material, he has to overcome both his pocket inefficiency AND the inherent difficulties created by being a scrambling QB. It doesn’t mean he can’t do it… but continuing to work on his mechanics and improve his pocket efficiency is still a very big deal.
by cjfarls on Aug 16, 2010 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Data, cjfarls?
for the statement that “scrambling” QBs take more sacks? Although I would rephrase scrambling to “more mobile/capable of running” QBs. Seems contraintuitive to me.
I don't have the archive in front of me, but cj is right
Scrambling QBs, and TT in theory would belong there, tend to take more sacks and often more fumbles. And, to be fair if you put that up with holding the ball low and the windup throw, both of which create more fumbles, and the aggregate outcome is exactly what you’d expect. They tried to change his mechanics in college, didn’t have time, and they’re trying to do so again. That’s not a coincidence, and it has nothing to do with other QBs who were successful with bad mechanics – this is about TT’s mechanics, not theirs. The game has changed, TT’s tendencies with the ball are a serious trouble and he’s got a year to work on it. At that point, he may again be in competition with Orton in TC, and the outcome is far from assured.
Gnothi Seauton
Here is a quote from the footballoutsiders FAQ
As for pass protection, some quarterbacks have better instincts for the rush than others, and are thus better at getting out of trouble by moving around in the pocket or throwing the ball away. Others will hesitate, hold onto the ball too long, and lose yardage over and over.
Note that “moving around in the pocket” does not necessarily mean “scrambling.” In fact, a scrambling quarterback will often take more sacks than a pocket quarterback, because while he’s running around trying to make something happen, a defensive lineman will catch up with him.
Its a touch thing to look at, as each QB is also complicated by their internal clock, etc. But there is lots of anectdotal evidence that it is true.
Examples:
Elway vs. Marino – Elway took double the sacks of Marino… both great QBs, both mediocre olines, very different styles…
Leftwich vs Garrard, 2006 – Leftwich took 9 sacks in 6 games, Garrard (much more mobile) took 20 in 10, with the sam oline. In addition Leftwich’s number (1.5/game) is probably inflated by his big windup, etc.
Roethlisberger probably keeps plays going longer and breaks more tackles than any QB in the NFL… and he still takes 40+ sacks/year. The steelers’ sack rate also tends to drop when the backup is inserted. An example from 2008: Roethlisberger (1 sack per 6.1 attempts), Leftwich (1 sack per 7 attempts – and again Leftwich)
David Carr (a not very often recognized scrambler) was often in the top-5 in QB rushing yards, while getting hit 50+ times per year.
Thank you
Last season, the top quarterbacks in sacks, were also the ones who ran a lot. You have McNabb, Roethlisberger and Rodgers who rushed for five touchdowns. I did a post on this a while ago, and it showed players like Manning and Marino avoid pressure with small pocket movements. So both quarterbacks who run, and those who don’t have pros and cons. But it is true, if you leave the pocket, statistically and historically, you are more likely to be sacked. The post I linked talks a bit more about why they scramble in the first place.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Aug 17, 2010 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Thank you md
Great post, which I unfortunately missed while I was honeymooning in Greece (rec’d now). Confirms my understanding of QB mobility/scrambling.
BS...Tebow's action is the MOST over rated storm in a tea cup I have ever seen.....ever. It can be improved but the over analysis of it is ridiculous!
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Thanks Bron#1 Fan
We care because Tebow holds the ball really far back and it’s going to get stripped if he doesn’t tighten it up. I love everything about him except that really long wind up.
Orton looked great. Except that 1 catch, Eddie didn’t do anything on Sunday. Like I said, I want to see him do some explosive, game breaking plays before I can say he is 2008 eddie. I believe that it is Lloyd vs Stokley for a roster spot. Lloyd wasn’t that big of a factor, but neither is Stokley. The competition is going to go down to the wire.
In all, I can’t wait to see more next week.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
Nobody Runs On The Denver Broncos
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I agree
with what you said about Ayers. People think he is a bust because of stats, but that is not true.
Exactly
his stats aren’t telling. He was bull rushing very effectively. If Doom would have been playing, Ayers or Doom would have gotten multiple sacks. Ayers’ pressure was very satisfying IMO.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
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Thanks swg!
haven’t seen you around as much!
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
Nobody Runs On The Denver Broncos
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Don't Forget
Akin Ayodele, I could be spelling that wrong.
But there was a series of plays where after each tackle his name came out. I consider that a solid contribution since I really only saw one or two out of position plays by him and a number of good tackles near the line.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
I did see some good play from him last night
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Good write-up, Nick
Here’s 4 words I never thought I’d type together:
Orton gives us hope.
The contrast between this game and his game against SF last year (3 picks in the 1st quarter) couldn’t be more stark. It also allows me to be a little more patient with Quinn and a lot more encouraged by Tebow. If both of those guys can progress half as much as Orton has in the past year (granted, they won’t get the reps Kyle did), we’re in good shape moving forward.
Step aside, my friend, I been doin' it for years.
Said sit on down, open ya eyes, say open up ya ears....
thanks pubkeeper
Yes he does. yes he does.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
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Nick Great Write up However
Royal ran a stop and go route, not a curl from what I can recall.
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
You're right Broncs
I don’t know why I wrote curl. thanks.
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Overall, I’d give the game an A- since our 1st string kicked ass and no one got hurt.
You are being too generous with Ayers. He has one pass rush move… The bull rush…
It is good for collapsing the pocket but terrible for allowing him to record sacks. If he is going to continue to bull rush, we’ll need someone up the middle or from the other side to make plays since Ayers can’t do this with one blunt force pass rush move.
I agree with the rest of your write up. The 1st string looked great. Tebow was impressive and McD’s coaching was smart. It was McD’s late game TO in a meaningless preseason contest that preserved time for Tebow’s last drive. A drive that should serve as a great confidence builder for Tebow and will get the MSM off his back. I was also pleased with our backup depth at all LB spots.
Most disappointing were our backup CBs. Awful across the board. There is no way any of you can tell me you see a good NFL prospect in the Phonz. Last night he played lazy, disinterested and with poor technique in tackling and coverage. And he might have played better than Cox. Brady Quinn looked like Orton did vs San Fran last preseason. Like someone that will get booed by the home crowd and deservedly so.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
Agreed about our backup DB’s — they looked very bad. Jones surprised me with how bad he looked, maybe watching it again will show me something else.
Tackling and ST’s [both receiving and coverage] were horrid.
Nobody runs on the Broncos
I guess Cincy didn’t get the memo…
So I see you rolled your way into the semis?
by OutOfYourElement on Aug 16, 2010 8:47 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Haha yea
It seemed more like the other way around, we could run on the Bengals.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Disagree on Ayers
I’d heard that what they wanted of him was to collapse the pocket. In fact, I think it was Orton who mentioned that when asked about him one day during camp — that the stats might not show his real impact.
Asked about the game last night, Ayers said that the scheme was basically just a straight 4-man rush, and that they weren’t really doing anything scheme-wise to get to the QB. Still, he claimed he had 3 hits on the QB while noting that he only cares about one thing: becoming elite.
I see lots of upside, and I was very pleased with the way he played last night.
I wasn’t displeased with Ayers play, but he is still a one trick pony. A good LT will have his way with a bull rusher, even a good bull rusher like Ayers.
He needs to work on his pass rush moves and this is the time to try new tricks.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
We had no meaningful pass rush from 1st team
And 2nd team was plain awful. As it stands, pass rush will be our real weakness.
Thats not true at all
We had plenty of QB pressure or “Pass rush”. No, there were no sacks. But sacks don’t necessarily mean no one was putting pressure on Palmer. There was plenty.
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
And
the coaching staff (McDaniels for sure, and maybe Wink and others) have stated that they’d prefer hurries and pressures to sacks in most cases because those tend to lead to interceptions.
I would like to see the 1st team putting the QB on the ground in the next game, though. Something is satisfying about that.
by BroncosBassist on Aug 17, 2010 7:10 AM MDT up reply actions
Did anyone take note of the battle between jermaine gresham and ayers?
I thought gresham got the better of ayers more. I still really liked what Ayers did and he appears to be much stronger and more determined/focused in that first sampling of where he’s at in his development. I agree he needs to work on some rip or spin moves to put together with that strength and size. So hopefully he feels that way too, and he’s one of the guys i’m most excited about watching this season. And you definitely need a disruptive guy coming from somewhere else. All in all i think he’ll do well this season, and i hope someone else can step up, maybe moss can bring the finesse to compliment that power ayers is showing.
I really liked what our starters did
As for Ayers, I think we are both right. He did display just one move: the bull rush. But he was very, very effective in that bull rush. He was getting to the qb consistently. It’s a shame we lost Doom. If Ayers was able to make that kind of bull rush consistently this year, Doom would have been easily in double digits. Ayers needs to do more then just pressure. He needs sacks, but he can’t do it without help. We need someone to step up.
Our backup DB’s were very bad. I did see a couple good coverage plays from Cox, but his negative coverage plays way outweighed his positiver coverage plays.
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And we need to cut D’Anthony Batiste TODAY! One of our QBs will get hurt with that clown flailing about the field.
I’d rather that not be our 1st round QB. Or any of them for that matter.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
one thing — Batiste seemed fine when he was at LT, but blew at RT
by Todd Jewell on Aug 16, 2010 8:20 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Totally Agree
He seemed to get worse as the game went on and he moved around. Is it possible he’s one of those guy who can only play one side. Is it possible, Orton was better at sliding the protection to the appropriate place, or perhaps having Richard Quinn and Daniel Graham help out with blocking also helped him. (Although I didn’t see much of Quinn) Perhaps all these things were a factor
Josh McDaniels-All he wants to do is win a MF'in game!
by RockyMountainThunder on Aug 16, 2010 8:57 AM MDT up reply actions
Batiste killed it on Royal's TD.
"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Aug 19, 2010 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions
If he is going to play so bad that he gets our QB injured, we can’t have him on the field at ANY point. CUT!!!!
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
Who the hell replaces him?
Polumbus? Heaven help us…
by BroncosBassist on Aug 16, 2010 9:48 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'd say that Beadles is our backup OT if we really needed one during the season.
someone else could fill in at LG.
by black_knight101 on Aug 17, 2010 4:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Without more than one injury at level tackle, I’d say Beadles is staying put at LG. He’s not being trained at the tackle position, nobody else is being trained as a starting LG, and there’s no reason to think there’s going to be a shuffle (and no reason we should shuffle this late in the game, IMO).
I would feel more comfortable with better quality backup on the outside.
It's just about time for us to get out there and win a MF Game!
justin
but that might seriously be better than polumbus or batiste. we could get mitch berger back and he could back up the tackle spot
or maybe there could be a fan competition at the next open spot. Guy who pushes a blocking sled furthest gets the nod.
Huge hole
Man, McG, that is being really kind about it……unless, of course, you were saying our backup OT played like an certain rectal orifice. That, I would understand, actually.
The only hole I want at OT is the ones made for our RBs to scoot through.
Batiste was bad
sadly, he was beating Polumbus earlier in the week which means Polumbus is likely our starting LT for now….I just puked a little bit.
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Man I wish I'd seen the game
From reports I was reading, Batiste was in with the 1st team on the left, and the line held up pretty well for Orton. It was when they moved him to the right with the backups that he started to suck out loud. This is all from second-hand reports, though, so you could very well be right.
We all know what we get with Tyler “Ole!” Polumbus, though.
by BroncosBassist on Aug 17, 2010 7:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Batiste nearly got Tebow killed. He couldn’t block a 3rd string DE for even half a second once he was at RT. I’d rather have Stokely at RT than that guy.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
I’d rather have Stokely at RT than that guy.
Yeah right.
"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Aug 19, 2010 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions
Two Players that Stood Out to Me
Marcus Thomas and Justin Bannan. Marcus Thomas was getting good pressure from the interior. Basically collapsing the pocket on several plays. On one play he was even double teamed and he still pushed them both back into the quarterback. On another play Thomas nimbly avoided a cut block and then provided contain on a ball carrier. On another run play he got in the backfield so deep and so quickly the runner had to side step and then ran into a wall of other defenders. I though going into this game that Thomas might be cut but I don’t think so at all now. Really impressive.
Bannan teamed up with Darcel McBath to stuff a 3rd and short. He also did a great job of occupying blockers. He definitely is not a pass rusher but our run defense should be greatly improved. He was a very good offseason addition.
Josh McDaniels-All he wants to do is win a MF'in game!
by RockyMountainThunder on Aug 16, 2010 8:10 AM MDT reply actions 3 recs
I didn't notice Marcus Thomas
all that much. I saw him get pressure a couple times, but that’s about it. I did notice Bannan. Dude is HUGE. I like him a lot, but I want to see more. I believe he had just 1 tackle in his time.
I want to see more of McBath…I just hope he is okay from that arm injury.
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The Good - Bad - Ugly
Nice write up with honest evaluation and objectively;
The Good:
1. no major injuries
2. Tony Baker 2 special team tackles
3. Cassius Vaughn ST returner
4. Orton played like a starter
5. Can only get better
The Bad:
1. 6 / 7 Starters didn’t play.
2. 2 Rookie O-line starters
3. 11 Players didn’t make the trip
4. Lack of Rushing
The Ugly.
1. T.O.P Broncos 21.19 Bengals 38.41 [Bronco D played 64% of game]
oc60
"I'd rather have a lot of talent and a little experience than a lot of experience and a little talent." John Wooden
Agree
I would also put
The Bad 5. Toney Baker 2 special team tackles.
Our running back had 2 special team tackles? That’s just sad.
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TD got recognized for a kickoff tackle.
I’m just sayin’… :)
by BroncosBassist on Aug 17, 2010 7:13 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Terrel Davis played?!?
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I would agree with the entire write up, except I don't think Quinn is a work in progress
Quinn looked like Quinn has always looked to me and that is a guy who has a lot of trouble with accuracy and looks to spend more time in the weight room versus the film room. Quinn has been severly over-hyped since his days at Notre Dame, he is a limited QB that has a hard time being able to make secondary choices and does not have the accuracy to be a starter at the NFL level. I am fine with him being a back-up this year since I think he is an upgrade over Simms, but I think if he is ever our starting QB, we will be in a world of trouble.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
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"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
Agree
I was a big BQ fan coming out of college… thought the concerns about his accuracy, etc. were overblown given his great college production… that said, he’s looked awful as a pro, and for all the reasons the skeptics pointed out (poor accuracy, decision-making). Its been a consistent/persistent problem, and doesn’t seem to be going away.
Question for you: Do you think if BQ continues to look like BQ, and Tebow continues to progress…. does BQ get cut? Why keep a guy who is a project, when he’s not going to be the QB of the present (Orton) or the future (Tebow)? We could definitely use the extra roster space given the injuries, question marks, and/or solid depth at positions like WR, LB, CB, Oline, etc.
You might keep Quinn...
for next year. If Orton has the year I think he’ll have we could franchise him and trade him. Then we re-sign Quinn to back up Tebow. I think Tebow will be able to take the #2 this year and take the reins in 2011. So, the only reason you would keep Quinn is for a backup next year.
Orton
You never know what kind of season Orton will have? He could play lights out, then the decision to start Tebow becomes even less necessary.
So I see you rolled your way into the semis?
by OutOfYourElement on Aug 16, 2010 9:08 AM MDT up reply actions
I Know
Orton will have a lights-out season. This is not faith, it is PERFECT KNOWLEDGE BABY!
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Aug 17, 2010 2:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Why have Quinn next year?
You know he can’t play at the NFL level. What’s the advantage of making him the backup? Frankly, I’d rather put the needed dollars into the QB position and have Orton, who is clearly exactly what everyone at TC has been saying about him, and Tebow, who hasn’t gotten there yet. It’s comforting to assume that TT won’t be injured and will blossom perfectly, but it’s a lot more sensible to consider having Orton – who Tebow hasn’t beaten out by any stretch – and Tebow. The better of the two can start, and the team has the option to trade the other and find a veteran backup or to keep him.
Gnothi Seauton
Yep!
The question will eventually be… How. I’m starting to think it would be desirable to have Orton in 2011, but we’ll have to weight that desire against the very large amount of money it would cost – and weigh that against those that we won’t be able to extend as a result (Champ comes to mind, maybe Harris’ extension would be vulnurable among also and it would handicap us in free agency).
It's just about time for us to get out there and win a MF Game!
What is the franchise tag amount for a QB? My wild a** guess is $13MM for a season.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
$16.4M is the price tag for a franchised QB in 2010. That would represent an increase over Kyle Orton’s salary of this year’s $2.621M of about $13.8M. That’s a tough pill to swallow. And the other side of that, is that if Orton performs as well or better than last year, as most of us expect, he absolutely wouldn’t sign anything but a franchise tag or a long term extension in the range of probably 12-14 million per year. He knows he could get that from another team, so asking him to sign for a couple years or at a cut rate isn’t an option, IMO.
While it might be beneficial to keep Orton in 2011, I just don’t see how it would be cost benificial. Especially when you consider that he could probably garner a 2nd rounder or better by tagging him to trade him. I think Tebow’s progress will ultimately be the deciding factor. We may have a true QB controversy next year between Quinn and Tebow (although I would certainly think Tebow would get the nod in that scenario).
It's just about time for us to get out there and win a MF Game!
Quinn may not be around next yr’s camp if he keeps up his level of play. That would mean Tebow and another vet QB brought in (if Orton doesnt get paid). Interesting scenario.
Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan
by Orange and Blue on Aug 17, 2010 9:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Price tag for a franchised QB
will be a lot higher next year since both Peyton and Brady are set to get huge new mega deals. Therefore, Orton will not be franchised.
The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese in the trap.
+10000000000000 Doc. Anyone who thought Quinn could challenge Orton was smoking something real good.
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Won't cut Quinn
He’s being groomed to back up Tebow.
Step aside, my friend, I been doin' it for years.
Said sit on down, open ya eyes, say open up ya ears....
yup
Tebow is looking like Denver’s #2 right now…
I was kind of hoping Quinn would show some flashes, so we might actually be able to trade him for some value.
So I see you rolled your way into the semis?
by OutOfYourElement on Aug 16, 2010 8:54 AM MDT up reply actions
I do believe Quinn is a work in progress
You saw Orton last year. He was terrible in the pre season. Quinn has had flashes this off season. He just didn’t show that much in the pre season game. He did lead a field goal drive. It’s not much, but it’s something. Give him some time. I think he can be a starter in this league. He just needs work.
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I suppose we shouldn't forget
that Simms looked pretty good in preseason, and Orton looked horrible.
I’m sure coach has a deeper understanding of what was asked, and what happened on the field, to have a better read on how they are actually performing.
But it wasn’t just picks, like Orton faced last season. We’re talking bad passes, overthrown, underthrown, thrown late, etc. Quinn looked really bad. Atleast Orton was driving with some nice throws between the picks last preseason. Quinn is showing nothing. I say can him so we can keep another worthy player on the roster (like Stokely).
So I see you rolled your way into the semis?
by OutOfYourElement on Aug 17, 2010 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions
+100000000000000000000
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
The effort sucked by most of the 3/4 stringers (or maybe they just stink), but I was very disappointed in Baker.
He looked slow and lethargic. I know he’s recovering from something, so hopefully that was the reason. Otherwise, he might not be kept in lieu if LeKevin.
Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan
by Orange and Blue on Aug 16, 2010 11:03 AM MDT reply actions
good write up BTW, Nick. rec’d.
Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan
by Orange and Blue on Aug 16, 2010 11:04 AM MDT up reply actions
Thanks OandB
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He was sick for 2 weeks
Might take a bit for him to get to full strength and endurance.
Gnothi Seauton
Beat me to it, doc
I’m hoping that he’s just out of conditioning and needs more time to get up to speed.
I think we’re all pulling for him to be successful, but I also think that we tend to expect too much sometimes.
by BroncosBassist on Aug 17, 2010 7:15 AM MDT up reply actions
NIce take, Nick. I pretty much agree with all of it although I would add 3rd downs to the "bad"
No worries on the run-game Nick. Not yet, anyway. I think the reason we didn’t run with the first team is basically because we didn’t have any first (or 2nd or 3rd or 4th) team RBs that needed practice. I think most of us are expecting the depth chart at RB to be ordered something like.. Moreno, Buckhalter, Fargas, White. These other guys are looking to be a 4th or 5th stringer at best. It would have been a waste of time to use 1st team reps on them instead of on the passing game where we could work out some kinks with guys that will actually be making plays come week-one.
The reason we didn’t run in the 2nd half, IMO, was a combination of the above and because we were playing from behind.
I agree with your take on CB depth. I thought it was a strength going into the game. Now it’s a worry, but only a slight worry at this point since it’s the first preseason game. Cox likely just needs more time to adapt to the game and get comfortable – he is a rookie after all. Nate Jones comes highly rated, so I’ll just wait to pass judgment. Maybe, though, we should stop playing him at safety so much. Maybe, just maybe it’s screwing him up. We’ll see. Phonz, well, he needs a kick in the ass. Anyway, this is an area I’ll be interested in for the next couple weeks.
My biggest concern, though, was out 3rd down ineffeciency on both sides of the ball. It was absolute crap. Even Orton’s two TD almost need an astrix in that those drives were each sustained by Bengals penalties on 3rd downs (hopefully I’m remembering the downs correctly there). Anyway, we need to get better at getting their offense off the field and ours onto it.
It's just about time for us to get out there and win a MF Game!
thanks
good point alex. Our 3rd downs were terrible. I definitely want to see a better run game. I’m hoping Fargas will get carries next week. Maybe LenDale will be ready. I would really like to see LenDale play.
I’m definitely worried about our CB dpeth. Neither Cox, Phonz, or Nate Jonse gave me anything to be excited about.
I share your concerns about our 3rd down efficiency. We were ugly. Very ugly on 3rd downs. If we can improve on our 3rd downs next game, I will see a sigh of relief. That is the one thing I want to see most. 3rd down efficiency followed by ST tackles followed by CB play.
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Rec'd!
Nice write up, Nick!
I am displeased with the sloppy and lazy play of our 3rd and 4th team players. There was almost no effort by those 3rd and 4th string players.
That, as they say, is why there are cuts! It’s nearly time to separate the men from the boys.
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
thanks broncosmontana!
yes sir it is that time.
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Good article. However...
Sorry but Matt Willis was too inconsistent to belong in the good category. He made some good catches but also had some drops. I want to see more of Alric Arnett. I think he can be a good PS guy right now and deserves more than just “garbage” time in preseason. He and Tebow seem to have some chemistry in practice and on the field. Brady Quinn deserves his own category. His performance reminded me of the game I think against SD when Orton was injured and Simms was playing. If Quinn continues to play that way I say cut him. Better to keep that roster spot for another position where depth will be more important.
After watching the game live I had the feeling that Willis did OK but not necessarily good like Nick says. Everyone keeps saying he had eight targets and only two catches, but my feeling after seeing the game live was that most of those throws were Brady Quinn not even coming close. So I just re-watched all his targets and here are my notes:
7:57 2nd quarter. Gains inside leverage on a slant, Quinn’s throw is way behind him, closer to being intercepted by the trailing CB than a catch. Plus he’s kind of hung out having to turn back to try for the ball and gets hit by a safety.
7:48 2nd quarter. Runs a deep comeback route, has nice separation from the DB and was a few yards past the first down marker already with possibility to take more yardage because of good separation. Quinn’s throw lands almost ten yards away from him over his head and out of bounds.
2:00 2nd quarter. Runs five yard curl. Has plenty of room to make a catch (for a first down) but watches as Quinn’s pass sails way to his (Willis’) left.
1:57 2nd quarter. Runs a go route. Quinn’s throw is short and so Willis has to come back for the ball, DB ends up tackling him before the ball comes and taking out his legs which causes a PI call. Even on replay I thought Willis came down with the ball but they call it incomplete and PI. Willis had his man beat and the safety had a terrible angle to the play, a good throw likely would have resulted in a TD.
1:26 2nd quarter. Can’t really tell the route because the Bengals’ broadcast team must show several replays of the Bengals stopping a screen for -1 yards. The only time we see this play is a replay from a field level camera that doesn’t show Willis until the ball gets there. It looks like probably another go route, and again Quinn’s throw is short. What we do see of Willis is him turning around, leaping and making a great bobbling catch over the DB and hitting the turf while maintaining the ball. DB again called for interference because he just plows Willis without looking for ball, but the catch was made so it is declined.
0:36 2nd quarter. Runs about a 7-yard square in route from the left side on the 11 yard line. Has room to make a catch but Quinn’s pass is both high and too far ahead of Willis. He dives forward, but cannot reach the ball, and the DB gets a hand on it. A catch (in stride) likely would have resulted in a touchdown, although possibly he would stopped at the one yard line, there was a defender who might have stopped him.
10:44 3rd quarter. Runs a skinny post while Quinn playactions. Playsaction? Quinn finally makes both the proper throw and a decent throw, a bullet up the seam. Willis does have to jump to get it, but the sharp throw allows him to quickly haul it in and keep running without fear of being laid out by a safety. Great play on both ends, makes 13 yards after the catch.
3:19 3rd quarter. Runs a go route down the right sideline. Has separation from the CB, the safety is nowhere near and in pursuit. Tebow throws a good pass and Willis drops it. To be completely honest, Willis had to retreat back toward the sideline a little to grab the ball, and a throw that is slightly more on the field of play would be easier to catch, but that being said this is a catch that needs to be made regardless, and it’s a disappointing drop that should have been a jog-in TD.
11:18 4th quarter. Runs a go route down the right sideline. Doesn’t have separation this time, and Tebow’s throw (as he gets hit slightly from multiple angles) is closer to the CB, who misses a leaping try for the interception. For some reason the refs don’t seem to care that the safety pushes Willis after the ball has hit the ground and everyone stops running.
After re-watching Willis’ targets, and throwing in the fact that he looked pretty good on returns (less tentative, faster, and with better cuts than Cox), I would indeed call his performance good, even with the drop (there was only one). He constantly had separation and with better accuracy from Quinn could have had an amazing game. I don’t think it’s a performance that ensures a spot on the roster, but it’s a performance that has me wanting to keep him over Lloyd, who didn’t show anything real special in this game.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Aug 17, 2010 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions 8 recs
Thanks, this was a nice summary of his chances and overall I thought he did pretty well.
We just tend to remember the drop from Tebow for multiple reasons. It’s kind of when an O-lineman plays a great game except for one play when he allows a fumble sack and that’s all he gets credit for doing.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein
Thanks for the great analysis
I’m left wondering one thing, though, about all those poor passes. Was it Quinn’s jitters throwing bad balls, or were the QB and WR not on the same page with the routes? If the latter, then some of those incompletions could be on Willis. That’s something we’ll likely never know. I wonder how many reps those two get together on the practice field.
by BroncosBassist on Aug 19, 2010 6:10 AM MDT up reply actions
eh
Quinn throws bad balls in practice too – however I think Quinn is where Orton is with the offense last year, which means they are miles apart.
Yes, Quinn has experience in this system from college and a lot of the plays are the same, which means he should shine, however I believe Orton played in a similar system in college as well. That just shows the how intricate this offense truly is for a QB!
daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed
As My
avatar suggests: all Eddie Royal all the time!
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Aug 17, 2010 2:19 PM MDT reply actions
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