Horse Tracks - 8/31/10
by John Bena on Aug 31, 2010 3:52 AM MDT
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Broncos Mailbag: Is a playoff berth a proper goal in Denver? - The Denver Post
Hey, Mike. I am starting to warm up to this Kyle Orton guy. He looks to control a game very well. I personally think the Broncos will be above .500. What do you think? --Armando Villegas, Woodalke, Calif.
Krieger: Broncos may be forced to admit mistake on Smith - The Denver Post
In the long run, Syd'Quan Thompson's 48-yard pick-six and 62-yard punt return might have been the best things to come out of Sunday night's Broncos preseason victory over the Steelers, establishing the rookie's bona fide status as an NFL player.
Broncos won't rush back walking wounded - The Denver Post
There is a distinction Daniel Graham makes, one that won't necessarily bring panic-stricken Broncos fans down from the ledge when it comes to wondering when some of the team's mainstays may be returning to the field, but an idea that makes perfect sense when placed in context.
Broncos' running game still gets incomplete grade - The Denver Post
Three preseason games down, and with the work of the Broncos' starters largely done, the team's rushing attack still is a work in need of progress.
Analysis: Broncos showing signs of why they're playing big linebackers - The Denver Post
The proof will always be in the regular-season pudding, but the Broncos tinkered with their defense during training camp and have flashed a couple of the changes in their three preseason games.
Broncos' Harris anticipating land of 10,000 delicacies - The Denver Post
Broncos offensive tackle Ryan Harris said he wouldn't mind playing four quarters in the final preseason game Thursday night at Minnesota because Minneapolis is his hometown.
Jason Hunter moving up | All Things Broncos
Indications are the Broncos will be moving Jason Hunter into more playing time _ either as a starter or on passing downs _ at the outside linebacker position opposite Robert Ayers in their 3-4 system.
Q&A: For the Broncos' sake, their four first-round picks in the last two drafts had better produce - The Denver Post
Q: Am I nuts? I look back at the Broncos' last two drafts, and they could have had Brian Orakpo, Maurkice Pouncey and Mike Iupati and still may have been able to select Knowshon Moreno. What am I missing in terms of drafting talented players? Tim Tebow was a reach as a first-round pick in this year's draft and probably cost the Broncos at least one future all-pro lineman. Oh, yes, and a real pass rusher. Robert Ayers has some tools, but where is his production?
The Broncos defensive line is experimenting with 4-man front | All Things Broncos
The Broncos are — and will remain — primarily a 3-4 defense, but the team is experimenting with a four-man front.
Aaron Smith treats Steelers to local dinner after game | All Things Broncos
After the preseason game here Sunday night, Pittsburgh Steelers defensive end Aaron Smith, who stared at Northern Colorado and Colorado Springs Sierra High School, picked up the tab on the post-game spread for his teammates and coaches tonight.
Maurice Clarett to play with Omaha | All Things Broncos
Former Broncos running back Maurice Clarett is a professional player again.
NFL.com news: Gimme 5: Which rookies will have the biggest impact?
1. Ryan Mathews, RB, San Diego Chargers The Chargers cleared the path for Ryan Mathews by releasing LaDainian Tomlinson and moving up in the draft to select the Fresno State running back. Mathews will be the featured back for a team that fell to 31st in rushing last season. With Philip Rivers directing the offense and checking in and out of plays to put the team in the best situation, Mathews is going to get a lot of plays against two high safeties worried more about the pass more than the run. Tomlinson had 223 carries last year, and Ryan will get all of those and more.
NFL.com news: Del Rio on Jones-Drew: surgery 'is not necessary'
Jaguars Pro Bowl running back Maurice Jones-Drew has not had knee surgery, Jacksonville coach Jack Del Rio said Monday.
NFL.com news: It's complicated: How to get to the final 53-man roster
Most of you have put together your fantasy teams with great detail and thought to ensure you have a great season, covering as many situations as possible. Well, the same applies to every team in the NFL. As teams cut down their rosters, they are not always picking the best 53 players, but trying to assemble the best team possible. Building the best possible team means having great players in every phase of football -- offense, defense and, most importantly, special teams.
Arian Foster of the Houston Texans among Week 3 preseason winners - ESPN
Dress rehearsals are over in the NFL as 32 teams completed the critical third week of the preseason, the week in which starters generally play until the second half.
Cleveland Browns expect Ndamukong Suh facemask penalty to be reviewed - ESPN
Detroit Lions rookie defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh grabbed Jake Delhomme's face mask, twisted it, wrapped his arms around the Browns quarterback's head and slammed him to the ground.
Veteran CB Cortland Finnegan finally healthy, returns to practice - ESPN
Tennessee veteran cornerback Cortland Finnegan returned to practice Monday after missing the past three weeks and the first three preseason games with an injured groin and hip flexor.
Oakland Raiders quarterback Jason Campbell practices, appears OK - ESPN
Oakland Raiders quarterback Jason Campbell is practicing again. Whether he'll play in Thursday's preseason finale is uncertain.
Buffalo Bills RB Marshawn Lynch set to test sore ankle in practice - ESPN
Buffalo Bills running back Marshawn Lynch is scheduled to test his sore ankle in practice Tuesday.
New York Jets coach Rex Ryan expects to have a great defense, even without Darrelle Revis - ESPN New York
The New York Jets agreed not to say anything publicly on the Darrelle Revis contract dispute, but coach Rex Ryan said plenty on Monday, delivering a not-so-subtle message to the Revis camp.
Four key Dallas Cowboys starters ready to return after injuries - ESPN Dallas
Four key Dallas Cowboys will return to practice Tuesday after extended absences due to injuries, coach Wade Phillips said.
Coy Ken Whisenhunt says Arizona Cardinals QB decision yet to be made - ESPN
The Arizona Cardinals are home after a week on the road, dragging a quarterback controversy that shows no sign of any quick resolution.
Troy Polamalu's hair insured for $1 million by Head and Shoulders - ESPN
Just call Troy Polamalu the man with the million dollar hair.
NFL suspends Purify for one game | National Football Post
Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver Maurice Purify has been suspended without pay for one game for a violation of the NFL personal conduct policy, according to the league.
Rashad Jeanty's agent sounds off | National Football Post
The Cincinnati Bengals have drawn heavy criticism for failing to disagnose that wide receiver Antonio Bryant had a major knee problem, which ultimately led the team to dump him Sunday after signing him to a $28 million contract this spring.
Jim Brown says Browns violated his agreement | National Football Post
Hall of Fame running back Jim Brown reiterated that he won't attend the Cleveland Browns' upcoming Ring of Honor ceremony, making those intentions clear in a letter addressed to team president Mike Holmgren.
Lardarius Webb not expected to play in preseason finale | National Football Post
Baltimore Ravens cornerback Lardarius Webb is unlikely to play Thursday night against the St. Louis Rams, according to coach John Harbaugh.
Bears waive QB Matt Gutierrez | National Football Post
The Chicago Bears are down to needing to make one roster move to reach the 75-man limit by Tuesday afternoon.
Report: Cardinals could wind up cutting Leinart | National Football Post
Ken Whisenhunt hasn’t gotten around to announcing yet that Derek Anderson will be the team’s starting quarterback. We explained here on Sunday how this is a no-brainer. While Leinart was measured with his comments on the issue last week when he was replaced as the starter just for the third preseason game at Chicago, he was more forthright today.
Colts place Kevin Thomas on injured reserve | National Football Post
The Indianapoilis Colts have placed third-round rookie cornerback Kevin Thomas on injured reserve, getting down to the roster limit of 75 players.
Owen Daniels passes physical, activated | National Football Post
Houston Texans tight end Owen Daniels passed his physical and was activated from the physically unable to perform list today.
NFL.com news: Redskins WR Kelly reinjures hamstring; McNabb, Portis still out
Washington Redskins receiver Malcolm Kelly pulled his left hamstring again Monday, a major setback in his bid to make the opening day roster, while Donovan McNabb and Clinton Portis remain unable to practice with sprained ankles.
Greed is good for Titans, Johnson - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
Chris Johnson has heard the skeptical chatter, and he dispels it as quickly as he hits the crease on a cutback run. In the wake of a sensational second season in which he became the sixth NFL runner to eclipse the 2,000-yard plateau, the Tennessee Titans’ Autobahn-fast halfback scoffs at the notion that he’ll settle into the spoils of stardom and lose some of his drive.
Childress says he's seen 'evolution' in Jackson - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
Tarvaris Jackson(notes) is entrenched as Minnesota’s backup to quarterback Brett Favre(notes), despite sharp play in exhibition games this month by Sage Rosenfels(notes).
Peyton Manning worried new rule will slow down hurry-up offense - Peter King - SI.com
Odd, sort of, to be reviewing the most important week of the preseason and writing mainly about the impact of an officiating decision. But the most intriguing event of the third round of games has to do with officiating, and the effect of moving the umpire from the defensive to the offensive side of the ball so he won't be such a defenseless target in the middle of pass patterns.
As NFL season approaches, Jets, Patriots hate each other - Dan Shaughnessy - SI.com
The pro football season can't start soon enough. Here in New England, we can't wait for Week 2 when the Patriots play the Jets at the new football theatre off exit 16W in the Meadowlands.
An 18-game NFL schedule would be bad for the players - Jeff Pearlman - SI.com
Dear NFL Player: As you surely know, your league is in the process of trying to increase the regular season from 16 to 18 games while eliminating two preseason contests. Perhaps you're excited about this. A little more money in the pocket. Extra exposure. Increased dashes through the secondary and rushes toward the quarterback. You love football. You live for football. You've probably said, "I'd play this game for free" 500 times -- and you've always meant it.
Cincy chemistry just one of NFL's mysteries - NFL News - FOX Sports on MSN
Three weeks through the NFL preseason, we’ve answered several of the lingering questions from the summer. Will Brett Favre be the Vikings quarterback? Yes. Will the Panthers start Matt Moore over Jimmy Clausen? Yes. Will Tom Brady really sport a Justin Bieber haircut? Absolutely.
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I had to stop reading that Krieger article on Smith
His entire premise is that Smith hasn’t made an impact in the preseason and will be cut in favor of Nate Jones and Squid. I might not be looking in the right places, but from what I’ve seen, Smith has had at least as much of an impact as Jones so far. Neither of them has had a huge play to bring their names into the spotlight, but maybe that’s kind of the point with cornerbacks. You don’t want your name mentioned unless you’re picking off a pass. I feel really bad for Phonz because expectations were set unreasonably high on him because of something that was out of his control. I’m in the column of those who think he’s showing promise and still has a lot of upside now that he’s starting to play with some swagger. I’d hate to see him cut at this point. Now, what happens this week could change my mind, if Squid and Cox play lights out and Smith regresses. We’ll have to see. I really don’t envy the coaching staff this time of year.
by BroncosBassist on Aug 31, 2010 5:51 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Come to think of it,
since it’s preseason and all, it might be interesting to see a rotation of Cox, Thompson, and Smith as the 1, 2, 3 cornerbacks with the rest of the 1st string defense for a series or two. Hell, that might be the future face of our secondary anyway, so let’s kick the tires.
by BroncosBassist on Aug 31, 2010 5:52 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with you, but Krieger's premise is somewhat valid...
There are only so many spots and you have to keep your best players. So if there is one spot left and comes down to either Jones vs. Smith or Squid vs. Smith, who goes and who stays?
One issue I have with Krieger’s column is calling Smith a mistake. If he were to be cut, it would be because the team has taken the path of bringing competition to every position. Sometimes in those cases a new guy might win out and someone has to go.
I’m not down on Smith at all, but rosters can only hold so many players.
by charlesnelsonreilly on Aug 31, 2010 7:20 AM MDT up reply actions
The premise of what Kreiger talks about has been discussed, here, at length.
It had me wondering if he doesn’t read MHR.
"People who live in glass houses...shouldn't."
by jayrockstone on Aug 31, 2010 7:25 AM MDT up reply actions
If we cut Smith this year, it would absolutely mean Phonz was a mistake. You don’t spend 1st round value on guys you cut before year 2 of their career with no production to show for it. It was all you guys that said "a rookie needs three years". McD would be pulling the plug on a high draft pick after a handful of games.
If it were up to me, I’d trade or cut Nate Jones. I think this is an obvious and easy choice. We need to get Cox as much PT as possible (nickel duties) because he’ll be our starting CB in a year or two. Thompson can be our #4 CB and punt returner. Phonz Smith can be the #5 CB, which means he’ll be inactive on game-day, but get another year with the team to possibly improve.
I bet Nate Jones carries the largest salary and least amount of upside. I haven’t seen him do much of anything except take a few personal foul penalties. Denver should be shopping him right now and if no trade partners can be found (6th or 7th round pick), just cut Jones. The fact that Jones can supposedly pitch in a safety means little to me. I’m sure we can sign a Safety to our practice squad and train him up in the event we lose a S or two during the regular season. Isn’t that was the PS is for?
The sunk cost theory will be interesting here if McD does keep Nate Jones and forces himself to decide to lose Thompson instead of cutting Smith. If it comes down to cutting Phonz or cutting Thompson, I don’t think McD will have the courage to cut Phonz. Thompson will never make it thru waives to the PS so I’ll be curious to see if McD has the stones to take the heat. Cutting Thompson or Smith would make me doubly mad at McD because he’d be compounding the Smith mistake, but making the Nate Jones mistake.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
by McGeorge on Aug 31, 2010 7:39 AM MDT up reply actions 8 recs
i agree 100% and like how you laid out your reasoning
i will be very disappointed if jones is kept insead of cox and thompson.
not entirely a propos but i will also be disappointed if royal or cox is the starting PR instead of thompson. IMHO, royal is below avg as a returner, cox has the speed to be a KR, but sydquan has the natural vision, quickness, shiftiness, and most importantly strength and balance to be a PR.
Great comment, McG
I’d be happiest with shopping Jones, too, as evidenced by my original comment. He has little to no upside, and I also don’t buy the ‘fill-in at safety’ argument. If we get that thin at Safety, we’re going to be hurting this year. Stash one on the PS if we need it (hint: we don’t, unless McBath’s injury is causing the team concern).
I think that Smith is showing the potential to move into at least a starting nickel spot at some point this season (excluding the obvious competition from Cox, who will be our future #1, likely). I’d be fine with him being #5 on the depth chart if that’s where he belongs. I think I’d rather see him at #4 with Squid at #5 to hopefully benefit from his extra year of experience (albeit shortened with injury). But, like I said, if ability and production dictates he’s #5, so be it. Hell, with two 30-plus starters, even #5 is going to get some PT this season at some point. Cox will have to start at least one game, most likely, leaving Smith/Squid as the nickel and the other as the dime.
by BroncosBassist on Aug 31, 2010 7:56 AM MDT up reply actions
Would be unwise to cut Smith, Squid, or Cassius (sp?)
Nate Jones was not an upgrade over Ty Law, considering what they’re paying him (4 years 4.5 million I think). He’s doesn’t tackle well. Send him to Baltimore for a 7th rounder.
Quitter's People United Member #35
Baltimore must be licking their chops to see who we cut
And they’re gonna go for the vet. So I agree Chuk, pitch him to the Ravens, we’ll get the most in return, and in the long view, Phonz still has a chance to learn and develop. And he IS coming along, improving, and he definitely showed skills in college. I like his effort so far, and that’s a big plus.
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime.
"Losing stinks" - Josh McDaniels
by azbroncomaniac on Aug 31, 2010 8:24 AM MDT up reply actions
minnesota too.
cornerback is isn’t going over well for them so far. if the broncs want a lower draft pick there’s got to be one out there.
Let's Get This Straight:: We're All In Agreement on the Phonz?
I love it when a community comes together. Your reasoning is excellent, McG. The Broncos did not face stiff competition to sign Jones this year (although WTF was Ozzie Newsome thinking, sitting on his hands), and if thing don’t work out next year, their cap is in good enough shape that they can find another guy just like him. McX rules free agency.
Phonz is a potential asset with upside. If he’s the same player in 2 more years, he’s entered dime-a-dozen territory. But right now, he’s still a coveted player.
by Chibronx on Aug 31, 2010 8:51 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Its hard to see them cutting Phonz
He has not lived up to the hype, but as someone mentioned already, none of that is his fault. How he performs on the field is what’s under his control and to put it mildly he has underachieved this far. But because of where and how he was drafted, as well as how he looked when playing at an entirely different level, perhaps too much was expected of him.
That said, it seems to me that you’ve made a significant enough investment in the player – for better or worse – to give him every chance to succeed. I’d point to Robert Ayers’ play so far this pre-season as anecdotal evidence that you can’t necessarily make a decision on a guy his rookie year. Some guys stink, some guys kill their first year and then play the opposite in year two. Ayers appears – at least at the moment – to be taking his game to the next level. Phonz, not so much.
But I wonder if too many people are focused on the necessity for McDaniels to ‘admit’ something when from a coaching perspective the most important thing is putting your investment in a position to succeed. A lot of people are eager to see Smith gone primarily because THEY want to be right, but the nuts and bolts of the situation are a bit more complex than that. All teams, sooner or later – particularly in the early years where pressure to win is highest – are going to take risks in the draft and sometimes they play out, sometimes they don’t. Every club is eventually going to get burned on a high draft pick, no matter how well researched they feel the pick may be.
We can (and have) debated ad nauseum the wisdom of how the Broncos ended up with Smith, but what’s done is done – they took a significant risk and it looks like the kid might not be the player they thought he was. But from the standpoint of trying to develop the player I have to think that
A) It sounds like there are things he’s doing the coaches see that many of us do not and that the Broncos feel his upside is still worth keeping him around, and
B) That high of a pick is just too much of an investment to cut bait this soon unless the player appears to have utterly no hope whatsoever of ever being successful – and I’m not sure we’re there yet with Smith.
But in the event they do decide to let him go this soon then sure, they made a mistake. Anyone who wants to pat themselves on the back over it can do so, but it happens, and it happens all the time. Risk is part of the game and simetimes it doesn’t work out. The Broncos, like every team who ends up cutting a draft pick early, will move on.
You're either a fan or you're not.
by TheMastermind on Aug 31, 2010 10:03 AM MDT up reply actions 4 recs
I think McD skirts the issue entirely and keeps 6 DBs (Champ, Goody, Jones, Smith, Cox and Thompson).
He’ll end up with 5 WRs (Gaff, Eddie, Lloyd, Decker and DT).
8, 19 – OL (Clady,Beadles,Walton, Kuper, Harris, Daniels, Hochstein, S Olsen)
7, 26 – DL (Williams, Bannan, Green, McBean, Fields, Thomas, Baker)
9, 35- LB (Doom, DJ, Haggan, Woody, Mays, Ayers, Moss, Hunter, Atkins)
4, 39- S (Dawk, HIll, Bruton, McBath)
3, 42 – ST (Pax, Prater, Colquitt)
5, 47 – RB (Moreno, Buck, Ball, White, Larsen)
3, 50 – QB (KO, TT, BQ)
3, 53 – TE (Graham, Quinn, Branson)
Willis, Worrell, McCarthy, E Olsen, Vaughn should make it to PS
Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan
by Orange and Blue on Aug 31, 2010 9:08 AM MDT up reply actions
oops, replace Worrell with Kirlew on PS, IMO.
And it was a coin flip for me between Alexander and Atkins.
Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan
by Orange and Blue on Aug 31, 2010 9:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Just a thought
Why wouldn’t we keep Jones and cut McBath? If Jones can play safety as well.
by gratefulorange on Aug 31, 2010 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions
McBath played well last year and plays ST. And cheaper.
Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan
by Orange and Blue on Aug 31, 2010 9:54 AM MDT up reply actions
Nu!!!
McBath is a stud at safety. Versatility or not, you don’t pick Jones over the Broncos’ future starting safety.
"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Aug 31, 2010 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions
What? McBath...he was the BEST of our rookies last year. McD will keep them all, then he will trade one pretty early on. Thats how him and Xanders works!
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
No way on cutting Willis and keeping Jones. Not a good idea.
We have a great secondary with 9 players. We don’t need a 10th because it’s already a team strength with nine. Keeping 10 makes no logical sense to me. You keep depth where it’s needed most and that is not in the secondary.
It is necessary at WR seeing as we can’t run the ball and our WRs are ???.
Trade or cut Jones, keep Willis. Thomas is hurt, Decker has been hurt, Lloyd has a history of sucking in real games and Eddie is coming off a brutal season. Willis can also return kickoffs, he is younger, cheaper and way more upside.
Willis, like Thompson, will not clear waivers. Some team will pick him up.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
I think Branson will fill the extra WR role. Not sure, this is going to get several around here a little heated I think. but it’s always a fun discourse.
Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan
by Orange and Blue on Aug 31, 2010 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions
BTW, I would certainly trade or cut Jones as well. However, it seems Bellichek placed a high priority on DBs…I think McD sees value in that as well. I would love a 5th rd pick for Jones.
Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan
by Orange and Blue on Aug 31, 2010 10:03 AM MDT up reply actions
I’d love a 7th round pick for Jones.
A 10th DB would be a waste, we don’t have enough PT for the nine good ones we got.
As Rich Quinn has shown all of us NOTHING, we are really light at TE IMO. I think we’ll throw to Branson, but Willis is someone we need and will more likely play on Sundays than a 10th DB.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
Quinn hopefully plays on Thursday. Hes our extra “Lineman” any way (along with Graham).
I would say that a trade imminent.
Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan
by Orange and Blue on Aug 31, 2010 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions
Exactly what you said
about Willis vs. Jones.
-Harvey J. Neptune
"Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Nice 53.
When comparing your numbers to 2009, you have one less receiver (not counting C Jackson), one less OL, one extra CB, and one extra RB or LB (last year larson was listed as LB and they didn’t keep a FB). With the current injuries at RB and the current talent at CB, it makes sense to shift the roster this way. In addition, the versitility of Beadles and Hochstein allows us to get by with only eight lineman. With White starting on the suspended list, there will be an extra roster spot and I expect it to be a WR since Thomas is banged-up. So, I would add Willis to begin with, but when White comes back, I think they’ll go with your 5 WRs and be fine. Four weeks is an eternity though, so you’ll never know what the 53 will look like at that point.
The only one I disagree with is Seth Olsen. With Beadles, Kuper, Danials, and Hochstein they have plenty of depth at G. I think it’s more likely that they cut S Olsen and keep Batiste. That being said, there is always some pretty big suprises on the cut list.
Won't bow. Don't know how.
you are likely right on keeping a Tackle, however I’m not sure Batiste is worth it any more. If we can get someone else’s cut Tackle then I agree S Olsen is gone.
Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan
by Orange and Blue on Aug 31, 2010 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions
Willis will never make it to the PS even if he is eligible
He’s done nothing but play solid at WR all preseason.
"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV
And green!
Well thought out.
Smith > Jones at this point. It will be interesting to see who stays, and hopefully not at all painful.
That's quite a long handle there, G Funk. - That's what she said.
First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins!!!! ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Aug 31, 2010 9:46 AM MDT up reply actions
This notion of three years is over-played
Look, mistakes happen in the draft and it doesn’t take three years to figure that out. Marcus Nash was gone after one year, Ted Gregory gone before the season started. The fact is Smith has not shown that he is capable of being anything more than a subpar dime CB, and he makes far to many errors on ST play to have any value there. I would applaud McDaniels if he did show the guts and say I made a mistake and cut Phonz. Maybe he signs somewhere else and becomes good, maybe it is the case of a Willie Middlebrooks and he bounces around and is out of the league in a few years. Either way, he is not going to help the Broncos win this year, and it does not appear that he has the capability to help them win long term. I wasn’t happy when we drafted him and what we gave up for him, but I rather keep a guy like S-Q (I don’t like squid) than keep trying to justify a bad choice. It was a mistake, hopefully McDaniels learned from it, moves on, and gives S-Q a shot to help the Broncos, cause it looks like that is a hell of a pick.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
I agree. 3 years is too long in the NFL. High picks (QBs excluded) need to be flashing as rookies and showing a lot of progress in year 2.
It is so rare that a player that stinks in his 1st two seasons becomes good later in his career. The window to make it happen is short in the NFL.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
Aaron Rodgers...
…is one obvious example (of many) that throws the whole “3 years is too long in the NFL” idea in the garbage. The window in the NFL is actually not THAT short for players who do not have injury issues (ie – Phonz). I hear this all the time but it is really a lot of hype. If the window was that short, you would NOT see players like Matt Leinart/Derek Anderson, Jerome Harrison, Charlie Whitehurst, (among SO many others) still getting amazing starting opportunities in the league (technically you could even list Broncos like Ryan McBean, Jarivs Moss and Ronald Fields here).
There IS still a place for long-term development of players in the league – it just should perhaps be more appropriately described as a short window for any one particular team, and only if that particular team is not posting a winning record.
A man can fail, but he is not a failure until he blames someone else. - J. Paul Getty
by SteveAssassin on Aug 31, 2010 7:33 PM MDT up reply actions
You didn’t read my post did you? Read the part about QBs and then take your example and put it in the garbage.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
Except that...
I listed other, non-QB players, also – including some of the Broncos current roster (go ahead and add in Lance Ball, Spencer Larsen, Nate Jones, etc).
The point is this is NOT exclusive to QBs OR high draft picks – developmental players are actually quite common in the League. Your short window concept is bunk.
But anyway, thanks for your brash, snarkiness – it motivates me like naysayers motivate Tebow – keep it coming.
A man can fail, but he is not a failure until he blames someone else. - J. Paul Getty
by SteveAssassin on Sep 1, 2010 8:57 AM MDT up reply actions
Thats great, I agree, I just dont agree with you guys that are not seeing any MARKED improvement in his play. He is playing well, and improving incrementally in each game. Even McG would be in agreement with that.
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Well stated McGeorge
Great example of having an opinion and backing it up with well thought out evidence. I do think Nate Jones being able to play safety is a plus, but I would definitely be okay with letting him go and keeping Smith if the scenario plays out like you think it may…
"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV
Excellent points
I just happen to think that a flashy pick-six isn’t necessarily what wins you a job. The only problem with my argument is that I DO remember one very nice coverage play he was involved in at the goal-line that helped save 6 points. He was getting recognized, and I can’t take anything away from his performance. But — I haven’t seen much from Jones this offseason. Part of that is because I haven’t been able to watch the first two games, I’ll admit.
I guess I just have a problem when a guy with an audience proclaims that a guy hasn’t done anything yet, when he clearly has been improving and showing his potential. It’s crap like that which breeds the average ill-informed DP poster. What’s more irritating to me is that I can live with the national media being partially informed about the Broncos and their more fringe players, but when it’s a Denver Post writer, then it’s inexcusable.
by BroncosBassist on Aug 31, 2010 7:51 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree with you about the pick 6. There was no one anywhere around him. Any NFL CB will make a pick 6 there.
When evaluating at a 5th string player, you have to at look young guys with potenial upside. Phonz has more than Nate. It might be a different story if we were discussing 2nd or 3rd.
I will be dissapointed if we don’t keep Cox, Squid and Phonz.
by DieselDan on Aug 31, 2010 9:06 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Here is the problem
“Potential” gets you fired as a coach, what Nate Jones gives you is versatility that Phonz does not give you. You can move him to safety and he is a better ST player than Phonz by a long shot. The goal is to win, Phonz is not going to help you win this year and if he is starting he will likely cause you to lose a few games. A bust is a bust, and NFL coaches should be able to determine that pretty quickly, how long did it take to figure out that Marcus Nash stunk or Ted Gregory couldn’t play in the NFL. Hanging on to guys because of “potential” is another way of saying you made a mistake and you don’t want to admit it. Jamarcus Russell has a ton of potential, but I don’t see anyone bending over to sign him.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
I'm Going Against The Grain Here
Alphonso Smith will NOT be cut this year. No way, no how. (Though it is possible he’ll get traded in September.)
Before ‘youz guys’ start throwing sticks and stones in my direction, he does fall (at least somewhat) in the ‘bust’ category as he has not performing like a first round talent. But, there is not total suckage here either and his game has been improving. Last year he had 9 tackles, 5 assisted tackles, & 3 pass defenses in 15 games. So far in three preseason games he has 8 tackles, 1 assisted tackle & 2 pass defenses. (Source: NFL.com)
At this point Smith may still keep starting reps while the rookies, while showing flashes of something special, are still making mistakes as they adjust to the NFL. If their play improves, Smith becomes an adequate backup with second-rounder money, much of which is already guaranteed anyway, or he gets traded to another team for another player that might perform better in a Bronco’s scheme.
Short answer…Smith has some trade value and still has upside, he won’t be cut outright.
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..."
by Alan_Smithee on Aug 31, 2010 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
You may be right in that he won't be cut outright
Except you have to have a team willing to trade for him, I am sure that some teams are willing to wait for him to be released, and if they really like him they will pick him up on waivers or they will wait for him to be a FA so they can sign him to a lower term deal rather than give up something for him. I would guess at this point, if they were to trade him, the best they could hope for is a conditional pick next year or maybe a player that is similar nature.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
Phonz IS a huge mistake
People can whine all they want about how he is “developing” or “getting better”, etc. The truth is the 14th pick in the NFL draft is expected to start his rookie year. If he does not, he is by definition a “disappointment” A 14th pick in the NFL draft who is not starting by his second year is by definition a “bust”. Sorry, those are the rules. Please, don’t get cute and talk about quarterbacks picked high in upper half of the first round, yes sometimes they can sit on the bench a year or two before playing.
I am not claiming to have a crystal ball. I don’t know where the phonz goes from here. There can be no denying by NFL standards his two years qualify as both “disappointing” and “bust”. Maybe he will emerge out of this as a starter one day. As I said, if I had a crystal ball I would be paying more attention to lottery numbers than a fan site :) You don’t pick a player the 14th pick the draft to have to be in a heated competition to make the team against a 7th round pick.
by Keyworthpunch on Aug 31, 2010 8:50 AM MDT up reply actions
Um, but Phonz wasn’t picked 14th in the draft? Don’t conflate the decision to trade the pick with the player selected. They are analytically separate items.
by Chibronx on Aug 31, 2010 8:52 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Um, no they are not seperate
A coach places a value on a player by where they are picked or what they gave up for said player. Fair or not, that is what the player has to live up to
by Keyworthpunch on Aug 31, 2010 8:54 AM MDT up reply actions
They traded the 14th pick for a second-round pick. That’s the first part of the equation. The second part is, they selected Phonz. It doesn’t mean that trading the pick was the right idea. But they were separate acts. Phonz has to play like a second-rounder to justify his selection. The decision to trade the pick is all on MCD.
The mistake is always the coaches
This is nothing personal against phonz. If a mistake is made, it is always the coaches or whoever is responsible for the draft. That is my point, the phonz is already a “disappointment” and a “bust” by NFL standards. Now that might not be his fault at all. He maybe doing everything in his power to live up to expectations. He also may end up playing well in years to come. None of the really changes that a mistake was made to trade the 14th pick in the draft for someone who will not start unless there are injuries in his second year.
by Keyworthpunch on Aug 31, 2010 9:05 AM MDT up reply actions
Time value turns that pick into a 38th or whatever it was...
It was a second rounder
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space."
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes" Douglas Adams
by orange&blue_aussie on Aug 31, 2010 8:59 AM MDT up reply actions
Tebow will be judged by the same standards
McD gave up a second, third and fourth to get back into the first round and draft him. If I remember my draft values the first round pick was worth a little more than the second and the third rounder. In any event, Tebow will be judged not only on if he was worth the first round picked used to select him but the 4th or lower we had to throw in to get that pick.
by Keyworthpunch on Aug 31, 2010 8:59 AM MDT up reply actions
No...thats totally incorrect. McD had late 1st/ early 2nd round grade on him and took him in mid 2nd round, giving up a futures pick that are not valued the same. Ridiculous statement to say he is the 14th pick...RIDICULOUS!
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Big linebackers
Good to see someone else notice the emphasis on big linebackers and get a better sense of why. McDaniels has a penchant for thinking out of the box but sometimes new recipes take awhile to perfect.
As far as Phonz I think it comes to whether the Broncos can see an upside through his apparent mental deficiencies, meaning does he have enough talent to justify giving him enough time to let his mind catch up with the game. It may come down to Jones and Phonz on the final cut.
"Peace, a journey without distance to a place we have never left."
A question to MHR
Has anyone noticed Nate Jones playing well in games 1 thru 3?
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
Wished I had access to game video
Can’t say I’ve seen anything that really caught my attention with Jones. However, sometimes no attention means good things. Measurables seem to be age and experiences compared to upside and downside.
Starting the first game of the regular season I will be signed up on NFL Rewind so I can study these things….ticked me off NFL wanted another 20 bucks for the preseason Rewind.
"Peace, a journey without distance to a place we have never left."
by BroncoCUbuffs on Aug 31, 2010 7:55 AM MDT up reply actions
Didn't see games 1 & 2,
didn’t see Jones in game 3. I didn’t even notice him when the 2’s came on… Was he hurt? Cox started, and I saw Smith playing the nickel spot early on.
by BroncosBassist on Aug 31, 2010 7:58 AM MDT up reply actions
He hasn't played good enough
for his pay grade IMO. For a supposedly good ST player, he hasn’t been good against the Run.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
To me Jones has been solid but probably not that flashy
As someone else alluded to, he maybe isn’t making flashy plays, but he isn’t missing plays or blowing coverages so you don’t noticed him too much.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
Have you noticed how much we’ve played Riar Geer. He has been playing with the #1s in every game and the #2s and the #3s. That guy is a lock for the PS if he clears waivers.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
The only game I actually noticed him performing in was this last one.
Based on the depth chart for the Steelers game, Graham and Quinn were still ahead of Branson. I don’t think I saw the Sperry guy at all but I haven’t re-watched the Steelers game yet. I don’t think I saw a pass even go near Geer in the Steelers game, either.
I imagine with the salary that Graham is making, this has to be his last year unless he takes a pay cut. I don’t recall how many years left he has on his deal though.
Yes I have,
he appears to be used as the blocking TE in Quinns absence. I least I think Quinns been absent, sure haven’t seen him on the field much.
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
he’s definitely hurt, but I don’t know what’s up… I haven’t seen anything. But I agree that Geer (or is it Greer?) will be a PS body if everyone else is healthy and he clears wavers. If any of the other 3 is banged up, we might need to keep the kid on the 53-man roster. I like his upside, but I think I’d be worried about our TE depth if that were the case.
by BroncosBassist on Aug 31, 2010 8:00 AM MDT up reply actions
The other day Quinn was listed by one DP writer as "injured (leg"
and then a day or 2 before that another DP writer listed him as “injured (ankle)”. Heh. So all I know is he is not 100% but for his sake he better get healthier fast.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Since when
has Maurice Clarett ever been a Professional football player
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Ever since Shanahan used a 3rd round pick on him. Talk about an absolute waste.
by DieselDan on Aug 31, 2010 9:10 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Anyone notice the egghead's QB rankings on ESPN this morning?
By egghead, I mean Clayton. He seems to be warming up a bit to Orton, he’s ranked with Cutler in the Pennington division with a 10% chance to reach elite status. Pennington division is guys who can manage a game and get you to the playoffs. He says that Cutler has a 95% chance to reach elite status. Personally I’d drop Cutler to 65%, and raise Orton to a 50%.
It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?
aka Solace
Link
I didn’t see it in the Horse Tracks, I apologize if I missed it.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview10/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=5489176
It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?
aka Solace
Yah, he still has a huge woody for his BFF Cutler but at least he's
more appreciative of Orton. FWIW.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
the main question i have with that is,
why does everyone keep regurgitating that mike martz will take cutler to the promised land? it’s become an accepted fact in MSM. maybe it’ll work, but it seems more plausible to me that putting more pass opportunities on jay and having him make those throws behind a below average O line in an scheme that relies heavily on throwing to a space rather than a player, well… man, it looks like catastrophe to me.
Martz abd Cutler both have reputations.
Martz as pass offense genius, and Cutler as a diamond in the rough with a big arm and endless upside. Both of these assessments are probably a bit on the mythical side but the picture of them comes from somewhere.
Martz’s success with the Rams is undeniable, but there’s more to it – there always is – than one man’s genius turning a bunch of mooks into champions. Cutler has a lot of formidable tools as a pro quarterback, and when he’s at his best he’s thrilling to watch. But the limited success he’s had in the NFL has been due to the participation of others in compliment with his own talent. It’s a team sport.
Jay’s weaknesses seem to be things that he isn’t willing to spend a lot of time working on and that’s been one of his biggest obstacles.
Whether the two can flourish together in Chicago remains to be seen. if they do, it won’t be as simple as the Genius Martz + Wunderkind Cutler. There’s a lot of other people involved in the equation on and off the field, and they all have to work together seamlessly as a unit.
You're either a fan or you're not.
by TheMastermind on Aug 31, 2010 9:45 AM MDT up reply actions
The good news is that Martz is as over rated as Cutler...by seasons end they will both be lucky to be viewed as anything other than extremely average with over hyped reputations!
You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Thanks for the morning news John.
Maybe I’m just growing more critical, but, I’m really missing the days when reporters actually reported on something instead just making an opinion about something. Not to say there aren’t good articles and reports here, it just seems opinion rules over actual reporting these days.
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
by bchiper on Aug 31, 2010 8:54 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
With the 24 hour news cycle we have...
There is more space to fill than there is hard news to report.You have a far greater demand for information than there is a supply OF it. Therefore you have to fill in the gaps with what may or may not be data of value. On the whole, the quality of the product declines.
The good news is, this challenges us as consumers to be more discriminating and eclectic about what we digest. This is why I try not to get my news from just one place. Like for instance, the Denver Post. LOL
You're either a fan or you're not.
by TheMastermind on Aug 31, 2010 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions
Well I do go various places,
the problem is they all seem like parrots with original material far and few between. More is not better in all cases. I like Brandt and Bowen on NFP and there is also Mike Lombardi who’s not on NFL.com. Their stuff is usually pretty insightful. There are a couple of others, but the difference I see is these guys aren’t trying to fill a page everyday.
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
That last link is a top ten list of NFL stories....
…. with # 8 being how much Jay Cutler sucks this preseason. I usually try to continue rooting for ex-Broncos when they are traded or seek greener pastures, but not that pouty baby.
QPU # 2.
You guys need to ready the John Clayton article today.
He rates QBs. Too funny. I love his rating of Matt Cassel.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview10/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=5489176
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
You can polish a turd
But it’s still a turd. I still can’t believe the Chiefs signed him for 63 million.
Quitter's People United Member #35
Thanks, John.
The Colts’ 3rd-round curse strikes again.
"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Aug 31, 2010 10:33 AM MDT reply actions
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