Airport Meanderings: A Few Thoughts On Elvis Dumervil and LenDale White
by John Bena on Aug 5, 2010 12:15 PM MDT
in 2010 Denver Broncos Training Camp
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PrintI am sitting here at DIA waiting to get on my plane home. It was a great trip, and I am already looking forward to next year. The news of the past 16 hours or so, however, have started a firestorm within Broncos Country, and try as I might I just had to give my opinion BEFORE getting on the plane.
FIrst, let's start with the injury to Elvis Dumervil. This is a crushing blow, no doubt about it. We'll investigate options the Broncos have in the coming days, but I wanted to focus on some of the drivel I've been hearing/reading the past hour or so since the prognosis broke.
There are people out there, Broncos 'fans', that are actually laying blame for the injury at the feet of Josh McDaniels. I have heard/read 'fans' saying that McDaniels' physical camps are to blame, that something like this would have never happened under Shanahan due to the lack of contact. I nearly threw up in my mouth.
THIS IS FRIGGIN' FOOTBALL!
The drill, a one-on-one blocking drill between Elvis and LT Tyler Polumbus, happens in every camp, every day. With Ryan Clady already on the shelf for an unknown amount of time, don't you want his possible replacement, Polumbus, going up against the NFL's sack king from 2009? Of course you do. This could have happened at any time - lifting weights, taking out the trash, fill in the blank. Anytime!
Of course, those blaming McDaniels know this, but they see this as an opportunity to blast the coach they see as the reason for everything bad that has happened to the Broncos. Their feelings on the coach have so jaded their mind that they have actually ceased to become fans. That's right, I said it. If you think Josh McDaniels is the reason Elvis Dumervil go hurt, you are NOT A FAN!
That is not a statement I make lightly because I encourage opinion here at MHR. It is the foundation on which MileHighReport was built. But even I have my limits, and blaming the coach for an injury, on the football field, during Training Camp, crosses the line.
We are all pissed about Elvis, to put it bluntly. Even moreso for me since I put Dumervil on the cover of the Broncos Annual. I see him as the present and future of the Broncos more than any other player. That's why he is on there. But, like the team itself, we need to get over it, and fast, and figure out how to compensate. The Broncos will, and we'll move forward. Until then - a speedy recovery to Dumervil! Broncos fans are pulling for you!
On to LenDale White. Again, the McDaniels protagonists are out, calling the coach a hypocrite, among other things, for apparently going against his 'team-first, high-character guy' message. This is more gray that the topic above, and I can certainly see that side of the argument. Let me, if I may, explain why that doesn't fit.
When coaches talk about high character guys, team first guys, etc, to me they are talking about the team leadership. The leaders in the locker room, the guys that dictate the tempo inside the building. These are usually the guys that get the big-bucks too - your quarterback, receivers, big-time vets. You get the idea.
For the Broncos, those guys are Dumervil, Tim Tebow, Kyle Orton, Champ Bailey, Brian Dawkins, etc. I am likely leaving a few out, but you get the idea. Those are the high-character guys - they are also the locker room leaders. When McDaniels speaks of 'team-first, high character' guys, it is these guys, at these positions he is talking about. Dumervil's character is a huge reason the Broncos gave him the big contract he deserved. It also played a role in why Brandon Marshall is in Miami.
Role players, like White, can have baggage because the leadership is already in the locker room to deal with it. On a larger scale, it is the reason the Patriots traded for Randy Moss a few years ago. They had the leadership in the locker room to handle Moss. The Broncos feel they have the leadership to handle White.
And honestly, what is the risk? He screw up, he's gone. Plain and simple. You can't compare bringing a guy like White in, while deciding not to give Brandon Marshall $40 million. Completely different risk levels.
White provides the Broncos with the short-yardage back they didn't have. This wasn't a move they made because of injuries to Knowshon Moreno and Correll Buckhalter. If it was, Kolby Smith would still be on the team. This was a move made to bring in a different type of running back. Smith, Lance Ball, Bruch Hall, Toney Baker, all similar types of backs. After watching those guys for the past 4 practices, McDaniels and Co. felt they needed to upgrade the position.
If White works, the Broncos have a motivated player that scored 15 touchdowns - most from short-yardage - just a couple years ago. If it doesn't, the Broncos are none the worse for wear. White is gone and the team makes due with what it has. Low risk, high reward. Welcome to the business of football.
They're calling for me to board, so I will leave this conversation to you. Fans don't have to agree with every move a coach makes. They don't have to like him. Fans DO NEED TO SUPPORT THEIR TEAM. They need to stay anchored to some kind of reality. I hope that makes sense.
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That's about as level headed as we can hope to be right now.
Doom will be missed, but someone will step into the void. Maybe Kirlew can catch fire.
On White, it seems like he’s TC fodder right now, someone to shake up the backfield. Prob won’t make the roster if our other guys are healthy.
'Always smell it first.' John F Kennedy
ADEWALE OGUNLEYE
6’4 and 260 pounds with some mean pass rush could be a great 3rd down option. Also A. Thomas and D. Burgess or Raheem Brock is 6’4 and 275lbs. Even it is just depth.
My job is to separate the player from the ball - John Lynch
He never really had baggage
And our current roster isn’t enough, at least not enough to be at a high level.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Couldn't agree more.
The knock on Doom was he was kind of one-dimensional so all we’re really missing is a sack leader.
I think this makes Wink have to be more creative with his blitzs.
Its a good thing Moss has been kickin ass in TC Ayers as well. Better time than ever to step up and show why they were both 1st rounders.
Could this bring Adelius Thomas into the picture.
Not saying we won’t miss Doom, but this does give us an opportunity to be creative with our defense.
Adelius Thomas
He might be a good signing but he is disruptive in the locker room. Look at the Patriots, they have leaders in the locker room but he disrupt that locker room last season. I would like the Broncos to get Aaron Schobel for a two year contract.
by OrangeBroncos on Aug 5, 2010 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Why Aaron Schobel?
He is old and is still pondering . Plus he did not want to play in a 3-4 defense for the Bills. I like the group of guys that we have right now more then Schobel.
"I used to fight the pain, but recently this became clear to me: pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness."
"Victory belongs to the most persevering." --Napoleon.
I read from Andrew Mason text (Maxdenver) that the broncos will use 4-3 this year but 3-4 still the base. I think this will make sense Ayers-Bannan-Williams-Schobel for front four. Haggan-DJ-Moss as linebackers. I think Schobel is the only best option in the market right now.
Also, Adelius Thomas is not a good locker room guy. He disrupted the New England last year.
by OrangeBroncos on Aug 5, 2010 4:50 PM MDT up reply actions
If they go 4-3
I think it would be LE Green, NT Williams, DT Bannan, RE Ayers and then SOLB DJ, MLB Haggan and WOLB Woodyard with Thomas, Fields, McBean and company on the rotation. C Baker is a beast as well.
My job is to separate the player from the ball - John Lynch
This line up in growing on me by the minute
McD wants us to be bigger and stronger. Haggan would probably be the SAM linebacker but this D is super fast with Woodyard and DJ and also very, very strong at the point of attacked. Might be the perfect 1st down unit and the perfect poison for MJD on week 1
My job is to separate the player from the ball - John Lynch
If that is the case
Then I agree, Schobel would be a good fit.
"I used to fight the pain, but recently this became clear to me: pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness."
"Victory belongs to the most persevering." --Napoleon.
To look at the positive in this....
Yeah, it really sucks losing him. However, losing him now does allow for four preseason games and the entire rest of camp to be able to adjust to what they are going to do. If you’re going to lose him, you might as well lose him early so that you are not restructuring your entire defense in November.
by quinnsdad on Aug 5, 2010 2:02 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nate Jones loves the CB blitz
Oddly, so does Martindale. Jarvis Green is a good pass rusher. Kirlew is a rookie, but has a history of going after the QB. Bannan, J. Williams and the newly larger Ryan McBean will all make it easier to get after the QB. There’s a list of upgrades. Doom is a great pass rusher who was working on his run defense. Someone will either to to step up, or GET to – it’s the NFL, and new faces come to the forefront every day. And, Doom is due back for the part of the season that matters the most – the year is not lost by any stretch.
Gnothi Seauton
by Doc Bear on Aug 5, 2010 5:40 PM MDT up reply actions 5 recs
Doomed!!!
Unless Moss can step up then Denver needs to look at a free agent or a trade to replace Doom. You need a pass rusher to succeed in the NFL,if we have none then we’re doomed.
I don’t know much about Betts but he looks like he can be a good goto guy for 3rd & short.
He is a Bronco n I hope for the best.
I agree to a point
We need to be able to put pressure on the opposing QB in every game.
And while Dumervil excelled in this area, he was not the only Bronco to bring the heat. Denver had 39 sacks in 2009. That means that other players produced 22 sacks.
Yes, these other players will need to step it up. Personally, I’m not ready to say that no-one will. We have some new additions, and need to wait to see how they mesh into the system before we can declare our defense in tatters.
We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough
Disagree,
most of the sacks last year were coverage sacks.
"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".
"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.
Couldn't Aree More. McD Haters leave town!
People don’t like change I get that. Especially when change requires the dismissal of our coach who brought us 2 Championships. Well I would argue that Elway brought those to us not necessarily Shannahan. But I digress.
To simply blame McD for every bad thing that ever happens is ludacrous thinking. Things happen, Players get injured, People get traded, and yes even draft players are a bust BUT think of it this way:
McD didn’t panic when his QB went down in NE. He just primed another QB that never took an NFL snap to a 11-5 record. This is a TEAM game and people need to realize that the TEAM will need to step up. Doom’s loss will hurt but may give opportunities for someone else. Remember this is the No For Long League and players take advantage.
Stop hating and let’s see what happens!
Ernie
by duke0730 on Aug 5, 2010 12:28 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
And with Brady dow, NE went from 16-0 to 11-5
So we definitely should not panic about losing Doom. True that McD faced a much tougher loss in Brady, on a team with Superbowl expectations and sky-high pressure. He handled that well. We can expect the same with the Broncos.
And since Doom is not the Hall of Fame QB, our expected result drop-off will be not 5 games, but maybe 2.
Haha you beat me to that MD.
So many people here at MHR have us at 8-8 or 9-7.
"I used to fight the pain, but recently this became clear to me: pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness."
"Victory belongs to the most persevering." --Napoleon.
I was a 10-6 man myself
Now it’s looking more like 8-8.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Agreed
Its football people get hurt. Maybe Shannys 1st round bust will pick up the slack…… If we get him back for a December run I think that will be good enough. Its not that big of a deal folks.
A LOT
of ifs coming into the Season, thankfully our schedule gets a lil esier a the back end of it all. Doom, take it easy rest up for a hard playoff push.
Can I just say that if it HAD TO happen I’m thankful it happened in wk 1 of TC. Now Wink and McD can scrutinize the next guys. If this happened late in TC, we’d be wayyyy more screwed.
As far as LenDale (I’ll stop calling him Lin-Hale), I want him to help our team. I just know if he can. Sadly, based on our current injury streak, he may be on the shelf in the next 5 days anyway.
Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan
by Orange and Blue on Aug 5, 2010 12:33 PM MDT reply actions
People Forgot...
We still have an amazing backfield and a revamped d-line. Elvis may be a one of a kind player on D but he’s still just one player. I think we will be fine and hopefully Elvis will come back with a vengeance when he does come back.
Like I said on another post,
I feel sad for Doom, and I wish him a speedy and full recovery. With Doom out the door has opened for someone else to step up. I hope someone does excatly that, and shows why they were brought into camp in the first place. That’s the way this game goes, someone need to say okay now it’s my turn.
"I cannot give you a formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: Try to please everybody."
This is a huge blow to our defense
But if we still can’t win a bunch of games without Dumervil, we didnt have much of a team to begin with. I’m not saying this is my opinion. I think we have a good team. I just hope someone can step up and fill the role. I like the ideas about bringing different people in, and getting creative with the defense. That is about all you could ask from any coach to do in this situation.
Get some persepective
At least Doom got hurt doing his job, not “tripping on a McDonald’s bag” or a drunken fall up the stairs, er sober stumble over a lazy dog. Injuries happen. This one hurts more than most, but it’s no indictment of the coach.
The O-Line has been and still is the key to the season. Will Clady and Harris come back? Will the rookies contribute? Too early to say.
Best of luck to LenDale.
Not quite panic time
Doom’s loss will hurt, no doubt about it.
But the LBs play a lot of rotation of which Doom was a part and last year a kind of a specialist.
We still have the basics for the rotation!
Haggan (possible both ILB and OLB), DJ, Ayers, probably Moss, and then five of the following: Woodyard, Reid, Atkins, Mays, Greisen, Ayodele, Kirlew, Alexander, and Bishop.
That’s not that automatically needs a desparation marginal FA addition IMO.
In fact, it may be an opportunity for Kirlew and/or Alexander to make the team and eventually thrive.
by ivanthenotsobad on Aug 5, 2010 12:49 PM MDT reply actions
Should be "That's not a group that automatically needs.....
by ivanthenotsobad on Aug 5, 2010 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree with ivan here. This is not panic time. This is why we have depth on a team.
Had this happened a year ago, we would have been in trouble. This year – as ivan mentioned – we have some decent talent pushing for an opportunity to play. I would not be surprised to see a couple of those guys really make a push to be in the rotation at LB. I understand that Kirlew was a sack specialist to some extent in college. Great opportunity – I hope he takes advantage of it. Thankfully this happened early in TC – rather than after cutdowns.
Whether it is Clady going down or anyone for that matter. This is football – the collisions are of several G forces. Guys get injured. Depth is the key.
We have improved our DL this off-season. That will help mollify the loss of Dumervil.
Thanks, John. Hope you had an easy flight home.
by Blackknigh on Aug 5, 2010 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not a McD fan, but I agree that it is ludicrous to blame Doom’s injury on him. Still, not sure that I agree that you have any right to declare other people’s fandom? I think it would be possible to irrationally hate McD and still be a fan of the Broncos. My guess is that the irrational hatred (which I don’t share) is born of the fact that these fans think he is destroying the team. Again, I don’t wholly agree with that notion, but I just don’t think anyone, let alone the manager of this site, has a right to declare someone else’s fandom.
Make sense? Or did I pick a bad week to quit sniffing glue?
Your 2010-2011 Colorado Avalanche: Reaching Up to the Cap Floor
by Bob in Boulder on Aug 5, 2010 12:57 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Some of the comments were getting ridiculous.
by BroncoRick69 on Aug 5, 2010 12:59 PM MDT up reply actions
I Think...
there’s a big difference between being negative/critical and a lot of what is going on in Broncos World right now. John can speak for himself, and do so far more eloquently, but I think a lot of what he says has merit.
You say, they are convinced he’s destroying the team. Fair enough. But wouldn’t a fan be cheering to be proven wrong?
Look around and you’ll find ‘fans’ who are happy about this news. Fans who were happy that Clady got hurt. Because it means the Broncos are going to be worse and the McD era will end sooner.
These ‘fans’ would rather be right about McD and the Broncos lose than McD end up being right. People have every right to think he’s doing a bad job (I’m a fan of McD and still acknowledge there have been some outright bad moves and even more questionable ones) but once you start actively choosing for your team to lose, I think it’s fair to question their fandom.
I enjoy your posts. I like Negative Nelly. I find McGeorge’s perspective an enjoyable counter-point to a lot of the McD support. Anyone who questions any of your fandom is silly.
But go read Football Outsiders and read some of their comments (one poster in particular). Go read Denver Post comments.
They want this team to fail. That’s not being a fan. I mean, ignore their feelings towards McD.
They are actively cheering for Champ, DJ, Dawk, etc., to lose games. How is that being a fan?
by MD413 on Aug 5, 2010 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions 4 recs
Get 'em, John!!
Hey, as Admin of this board, would you release the recs so I can give you about a dozen more?
Still drink Coke Zero? I’ll send you a case!
-
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
by AZDynamics on Aug 5, 2010 12:59 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Well said Bena...
this is a team sport, injuries happen and even expected, is too bad that it happened to one of the best players on the team and it will definitively affect the defense to some point. That being said, this is why there a few players for every position, so someone can step in if there’s an injury, we just have to hope that the players behind Doom can do their part while he recovers and that McD. and company have done a good job of filling the roster with players that can step up when their number is called. Sucks that Doom is out, buy I’m not throwing the towel yet, my expectations for this team remain the same, good, smart passionate football every week and a playoff spot. As always; Go Broncos!!
by wisco on Aug 5, 2010 1:01 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Like I always say...
You’re either a fan or you’re not.
Some people are just here to hear themselves bitch. I am here because I love the Broncos and this is the best place on the Web for Broncos news and talk.
This is definitely all 31 flavors of Suck but I’m a fan, win lose or draw. There’s a lot of other guys on this team. The Broncos will fight through this.
Why hate on your OWN team when you've got the Raiders?
by TheMastermind on Aug 5, 2010 1:09 PM MDT reply actions 11 recs
I don't know...
this might just include an extra flavor #32!
Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."
Same here
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
I'm reminded of a few seasons back when Champ was out
We uncovered a couple of pretty nice young rookies that year in D-Will and Foxy.
When a star goes down, good players step up their game, and young players feel their expectations rise. This could actually be end up being a case where short term pain produces a stronger team in the long term, oddly enough.
But losing Elvis is going to hurt short term, no doubt about it.
I like Josh. But I need Ws.
by broncosmontana on Aug 5, 2010 10:36 PM MDT up reply actions
great recollection. here’s to hoping the Kirlew’s and Moss’ step up and shine.
Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan
by Orange and Blue on Aug 5, 2010 11:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Shooting straight and hitting the target
Great post, John! Knee jerk reactions, usually but not always addressed to youth, followed by an open mouth generally do not produce productive results. There is so much information that, anyone outside of the organization, does not have privy to it is impossible to make blanket or speculative remarks with any real degree of accuracy.
Over focusing on McDaniels and Doom does indeed miss the point. My perception of the real point is how do we define FAN and what is constructive criticism or constructive support, of course underlining the word “constructive”. Knee jerk reactions and inflammatory self-aggrandizing “bring the attention to me” statements are counter productive. Thank you for having the guts to speak your mind despite what others may think, a rather good definition of integrity me thinks.
"Peace, a journey without distance to a place we have never left."
by BroncoCUbuffs on Aug 5, 2010 1:26 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Had to jump in here...
BroncoCUBuffs hit it on the head (thank the powers that be as I am on Vikes today, Dental work sucks). Something that I am frankly becoming less and less tolerant of as I age. “Lighten up, Lieutenant” is the phrase that seems to come to mind most often. I guess for those of us that remember the brutal early days, we have been due for a trip down for a bit. The injuries stink, but they happen to all teams. I miss Denver being known for Defensive football. I remember when all we had was “D”, and frankly…those were easy teams to get behind (thinking Joe Collier days). I was embarrassed by the way our offensive “young stars” behaved at the end of Mike’s term. That was not the organization I grew up loving. One of the things that made Elway so easy to pull for was his “old school” work ethic (Tebow does remind me of John in this respect). I like McD for the same reasons. He is “old school”. Son of a great coach, it is in his blood. If folks will just “Lighten Up Lieutenant” (bonus points if you can name the flick), I really do feel we will be a contender for years. Our time is coming, be patient and supportive and enjoy the ride.
by Flying Dutchman on Aug 5, 2010 2:54 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Could be any number of movies
but I’m going to go with Stripes. It just seems like something Bill Murray would say.
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
You got it, Sgt Hulka the DI was the one who said it actually. Careful, you’re dating yourself!
by Flying Dutchman on Aug 5, 2010 6:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Sorry, I have to interject here
I own that movie, one of my all-time favorites and that happens to be one of my all-time favorite lines. It’s
“Lighten up, Francis.”
Sorry, I’m a bit of a stickler when it comes to movie lines. ;)
by AllBroncsallday on Aug 5, 2010 6:44 PM MDT up reply actions
"Francis" makes that line work
Great moment in a great movie!
I like Josh. But I need Ws.
by broncosmontana on Aug 5, 2010 10:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Hehe.
"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Aug 6, 2010 1:05 AM MDT up reply actions
you mean the guy that didn't want to play the 3-4 in Buffalo?
not so sure about that one.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
Dude doesn’t fit a 3-4 very well. I’d like to see our own youngen’s step up and grow a pair, frankly.
by Flying Dutchman on Aug 5, 2010 2:57 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Our run D is still greatly improved
Honestly doom wasn’t very good in the run game either and about half of his sacks were coverage sacks and had many games with a goose egg….big blow but we will survive he was the only outside rusher we really had last year and if ayers and moss can get some pressure and other guys too we will survive
"ITS PARTAAY TIME BAABY"
by BDAWKisaBRONC on Aug 5, 2010 1:40 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
“Honestly doom wasn’t very good in the run game”
This is what psychiatrists and grief councilors call Rationalizing.
Bro, the loss of Doom is awful for us, no matter how you slice it. We got worse today and it will impact our season. We got lucky with injuries last year. We are clearly unlucky in 2010. Is what it is.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
Dude, which one is it?
Earlier, you said you were in the 8-8 camp before Doom’s injury, and that the 8-8 camp is where you remain.
Now it’s “awful for us” and people who point (rightly) to his run defense, are just rationalizing.
Is the loss a killer or not, and are people who say it doesn’t make a huge difference a) making excuses or b) agreeing with George?
I’m just trying to keep up here.
It is awful for us. There is no way to deny that. AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL.
But we can still win some games without one player. It’s also awful for us that Phonz sucked so bad that year, but that doesn’t rule him out to suck again this year. Most would think he and Ayers should be better this year to offset losses like this one.
Some of McD’s players are going to have to step up now. I hate the lose of Elvis, but now we get to see how good of a coach and GM McD is.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
Um, wrong head coach
I hate the lose of Elvis, but now we get to see how good of a coach and GM McD is.
Shanahan was head coach and GM. McD is a head coach. Brian Xanders is his GM. We’ve had enough change that it’s hard to keep up, but you’re a coach behind. (That is NOT a ’coach’s behind’. You’re just confusing the two – and no, McD isn’t also serving as GM, which the offseason made very clear).
Gnothi Seauton
Thank you
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
not sure about that, doc.
i know what the titles read but i can’t see xanders pushing the tebow deal so hard, for example. in any case, i don’t think the GM/head coach deal is such a horrible thing anyway. i’m kind of with parcels—let the head coach do some grocery shopping if he has to cook. but honestly, it seems to me that in the NFL there’s a LOT more mike shanahan going on than there is jim zorn.
ummmm...sorta
like…we got worse at the “gonna rush the passer and make lotsa trouble for there pass offense when they gotta pass and we are ready for them”….totally got worse…and…we got worse in the “team leaders walk the talk”…and we got worse for the “Winks gotta plan on how to use everyone on the D cuz…especially…he knows the linebackers totally”
and…i feel way bad for Doom…and the defense…and the team…and us
and…im gonna trust the rest of the D…and Wink and Jedi and Dr X…and the team…and all the “real” fans…and im gonna root for them…and be like totally over the edge when we win…and im prolly gonna cry when they loose…or at least pout lots…and im just gonna be there for the team…cuz they need us…more than ever
MHR...and proud of it!
by MHRsGirl on Aug 5, 2010 4:34 PM MDT up reply actions 7 recs
You tell it girl!
Good to see you again
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
It's strange,
but after all the trials and tribulations associated with our Denver Broncos since I began coming to MHR in 2008, I’ve started to enjoy the sh*tshow that ensues whenever something like this happens. When I first joined MHR, I would go crazy in response to the crazy. Then the crazy started to anger me and I stopped looking at open game threads and these type of posts. Now, I’ve reached the point where I become entertained, which is nice. On some level, it’s interesting to see people completely meltdown over a draft pick or a torn pectoral muscle. I think pretty much everyone here is a big enough fan to see why the meltdown takes place—we’re all obviously invested with this team—but the level of crazy is astonishing.
John, you always weigh-in with a level-headed, appropriate response, which is why I—and I’m sure many others— remain loyal to this site. That’s great, but if your aim is to quell the crazy, it’s not going to work. As Mastermind posted, “some people are just hear to hear themselves bitch”. I agree with this sentiment, but I think it goes deeper than that. I think people just have a negative attachment to certain things. Humans take their frustrations out on their spouses, children, pets, coworkers, etc. all the time. Some folks simply unload their baggage on their favorite sports team. I’m a big fan of the MT Grizzlies and I see it within that fan base as well. This phenomenon is not unique to the Broncos, or MHR.
How could someone who “bleeds orange and blue”, watches every game, knows every player, has taken the time to study the offensive and defensive schemes, etc, always be so damn pessimistic? I love reading these training camp updates saying “so-and-so looked very good, as did so-and-so, etc.” and one of the first comments someone says, “did you notice anyone who wasn’t playing as well?”. My mind doesn’t work that way, so I just don’t understand it. The only thing I can think of is that they are simply using the broncos to funnel all the BS in their life out of their minds and onto some blog, largely anonymously. It’s quite efficient actually.
I realize this is some major pop-psych BS and I have no basis for saying any of it, but it’s the only way I can comprehend the crazy. Whatever it is, John’s level-headed blog posts are not going to contain it, so you best start enjoying it. I’m maybe enjoying it too much, because my first inclination was to make a post about how McDummals should have never been running a one on one drill in training camp just to get a laugh. After people started actualy saying that, I’m glad I didn’t.
Won't bow. Don't know how.
by ButteBronco on Aug 5, 2010 1:52 PM MDT reply actions 16 recs
I thank you from the bottom of my Vikidan induced wobble.....
You just nailed it and I’m glad I’m not alone in feeling this way. Thanks again, John for nurturing a site slanting towards the optimistic as oppossed to the pessimistic. I’m a fan and want things to do well for the Broncos, just don’t get the element that would like to see failure to validate the stand on the coach. Makes no sense to me. Retooling to fit a new coach, bringing in his guys, another new scheme…please. Let us hope that we can get into a good groove with McD and be competative for years. I’m not getting any younger! (By the way, I can remember when .500% was a HUGE FN deal! Don’t act spoiled, we’ve always been better than that!
by Flying Dutchman on Aug 5, 2010 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions
IF you are rooting the Broncos to FAIL then you are not a BRONCOS FAN..PERIOD
I think thats what John’s trying to say and I completely agree.
by OrangeBroncos on Aug 5, 2010 4:54 PM MDT up reply actions
Very well said.
"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Aug 6, 2010 1:11 AM MDT up reply actions
Beautifully articulated, big sky bro!
(And you are dead right about Griz fans, too.) It’s great to be passionate, but important to remember it’s rooted in FUN. Football is FUN — fun times with your family, fun times with the people around you, fun memories you will look back on for years. And as my Dad always says, good and bad things happen in life, but you are responsible for your own attitude. That’s true of a team that deals with adversity and that’s true of their fan base as well.
When we changed coaches a few years ago, it was shocking to many who had come to identify Shanahan as the face of the Broncos. It’s understandable. But ultimately, if you’re not getting better, you’re not going anywhere. Change happens, whether it comes to you or you go to it. Bowlen upset a lot of people with the move, but if you can’t suck it up and find a way to rally around your team in its darkest hours, people have a right to question your fandom.
Last time I checked, there is still a team taking the field at Dove Valley, and it’s still stocked with players I know about and love. Players who I know are focused on getting better every day, championships in their mind, busting their behinds to make us proud of them. As fans, we can give that back to them. We can make them proud of us.
With apologies to Billy Shakespeare for the liberties, no one said it better:
G-d’s will! I pray thee, wish not one player more.
Rather proclaim it, Bronco fans, through the league,
That he which hath no stomach for this fight,
Let him depart. His passport shall be made,
And Chargers season tickets put into his pocket.
We would not root in that man’s company
That fears his fellowship to root with us!
Tomorrow is the enshrinement of Floyd Little.
He that lived to see this man play,
Will stand proudly when this man is named,
And rouse him at the name of Floyd Little.
He that cheers this day and sees old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say ‘Floyd Little is in the Hall of Fame.’
Then will he show the film to his friends,
Of the Broncos in their darkest days,
Of Little who saved this franchise
In its most desperate hour,
By never giving up, never going home.
We’ll say ‘This man is in the Hall of Fame.’
Old men forget, and yet all shall be forgot,
But we’ll remember, with YouTube clips,
What feats Floyd did that day! Then shall his name,
Familiar in our mouth as household words
Be in our flowing cups freshly rememb’red.
This story shall the good fan teach his son;
And an enshrinement class shall ne’er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But he — and we — in it shall be remembered!
We few, we happy few, we Fans of Broncos,
For he today that braves Doom’s injury with me
Shall be a Bronco Fan, be he ne’er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition.
And fair weather fans in Denver now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their fanhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That stood with us upon Floyd Little’s day!!!
I guess that’s how I feel to the core about this football team. Melodramatic, irrational, and POSITIVE. : )
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Aug 6, 2010 6:10 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice!!!
- Become an unshakable optimist by thinking continually of the things you want to happen, and by refusing to think about the things you fear might happen!
by BroncoSense72 on Aug 6, 2010 9:06 AM MDT up reply actions
Well said John.
Let’s be the fans every team wishes they had.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. A. Einstein
haven't done a fanshot/post on this, but...
….radio here in Denver just reported Josh Barrett and Kenny McKinley out for the year, apparently.
Barrett – shoulder. McKinley – knee
bad news keep piling up….
by Gristle McThornbody on Aug 5, 2010 2:27 PM MDT reply actions
At least that is not the top teir players.
It was not even a sure bet that either made the team without injury.
Yep...
These were just the “expected” camp injuries that happen every year. I’ve said repeatedly that injuries would likely determine who made the final cuts at DB and WR… well, here we go.
Its actually good in some ways (not that health wouldn’t have been better overall) because I thought Barrett was likely gone if all the DBs stayed healthy, but I wanted to keep him around for the inevitable decline of Dawk and Hill,.. now we can keep him for an extra year. Same with the ability to keep both McKinley/Willis, which I think was going to be a decision point if everyone stayed healthy. Doom’s injury allows us to keep one more of Kirlew/Alexander/Atkins/Moss/Reid which likely would’ve been a difficult cut if all had stayed healthy.
As someone that vocally and often speaks for what I guess Bena is calling the anti-McD camp, let me say this as clear as I can.
You can NOT blame this injury on the coach. Football is a dangerous game. Always has been and always will be. One of the reasons I don’t mind guys like Marshall acting a fool (within reason, not punting footballs) to get paid is because Marshall will (at some point) be like Elvis is today. He’ll be laid-up and out of commission. These football players have to get their money when they can because things like the Elvis injury happen all the freaking time. I can PROMISE that another NFL star will be lost for the season before its August 31st. This happens every single year without fail. Happened to us this year – and that sucks to high hell. It happens to all the other teams too. It’s happened to us before McD and it will happen to us again long after McD is not our coach.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
by McGeorge on Aug 5, 2010 2:30 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Barret and McKinley to IR
What’s going on?
by CaliBroncos55 on Aug 5, 2010 2:30 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Thank goodness for Bruton and Willis
Hope the Willis hype is for real.
by BroncosBassist on Aug 5, 2010 6:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Us v. Them All over Again
John, I have enjoyed MHR this year without drama, and was hoping to read a dispassionate, well-written article on how the team will cope without Dumervil and with White, when I was disappointed to read an article which launched into more of last year’s McDaniels with-us-or-against-us dialog.
It’s time for everyone to stop saying people who aren’t in agreement with them aren’t fans. Its in your article and it is in some of the comments. Isn’t it time to just ignore silly comments like McDaniels caused the injury, instead of launching into a lecture on who a real fan is?
Fans are people who support the Broncos, even in away stadiums and even when they play badly.
Fans can be people who think McDaniels has made some good moves and some bad ones.
Fans can even say stupid things sometimes. Show me one who hasn’t and there will be film somewhere to counter it. Blaming McDaniels for the injury is stupid.
I want to focus on this year’s team and not on Josh McDaniels. I hope that we have no soap opera or drama this year, except for play on the field.
I found this column extremely disappointing. I thought we all had moved past this.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 5, 2010 2:35 PM MDT reply actions 3 recs
Fans are people who support the Broncos, even in away stadiums and even when they play badly.
So according to your own definition, people who root for and want McD to fail (which is rooting for and wanting the Broncos to fail) aren’t fans correct? These people aren’t supporting the Broncos. These people are rooting for the Broncos to lose and perform poorly so that McD will get fired all the while claiming to be Broncos fans. These are the people that John is calling out as not being fans and I happen to agree with him. If you aren’t a part of these people then don’t take offense. It’s hard to argue that people that openly root for our Broncos to fail are indeed Broncos fans. After all it’s right there in your definition of being a fan:
Fans are people who support the Broncos
You can be critical of McD’s moves or even downright dislike him but if you’re a Broncos fan you should still be rooting for him to lead our Broncos back to glory. Those who aren’t rooting for that aren’t Broncos fans.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by c_style on Aug 5, 2010 3:20 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Its the Team, Isn't It?
There have been plenty of players and plenty of coaches that have not been my favorites over the years. You are right, it doesn’t matter. I don’t have to root for Josh McDaniels, nor for any particular player, because in the long run, all will be gone and the team will remain (unless one is in Baltimore, Cleveland, Oakland or LA) but that is a digression.
My point is that people ought to stop personalizing these team issues, because it is the collective entity, the Broncos, we are supporting, not the singular individuals who comprise it.
I don’t like negative people either, but I try not to spend scarce time and energy talking about them. That kind of stuff dies more quickly when people ignore it than when you make an issue of it.
Hey, I get upset and rant sometimes, but the next day, I wonder why I wasted the energy. Its not about McDaniels this year, or Orton or Doom, its about the team and how it produces. Let’s enjoy (or moan about) things as they play out and just stop squabbling with each other about whether we like who is coaching the team. I want to watch the guys wearing the helmets.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 5, 2010 3:49 PM MDT up reply actions
With respect Baltimore, I think you miss John's point.
I can dislike a player or a coach and be a fan. That isn’t what john is talking about. I can be critical of the team, a person, or a play, and still be a fan. The issue that John has responded to (not initiated) is that for someone to try to lay a simple injury at the feet of a coach is just beyond ludicrous. One can be critical of McDaniels all they want, but to write that he is to blame for Doom’s injury takes “criticism” beyond logic to a place of “blame a person beyond any stretch of logic”.
That level of hatred and ignorance is just intolerable, and I think John’s response is wholly appropriate.
Yes, we’ve heard stupid things from “fans” in the past. But when they approach this level of hatred and stupidity, they threaten the integrity of this site (for which John is responsible). There is “stupid”, and then there is “inciteful stupid”. “Inciteful stupid” ruins plenty of blog sites, and a blog administrator is responsible for drawing the line.
Just my opinion.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Aug 5, 2010 4:53 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Fair Comment, but Why?
I agree that John was responding to a stupid comment, but why did he feel compelled to do so?
Few of us really would think that McDaniels was responsible for Doom’s injury….
I don’t think you respond to that kind of thinking, instead you ignore it and give it the inattention it deserves.
Certain people try to promote controversy because that is what they like. Responding to ignorance and hatred gives those comments more credibility than they deserve.
I just think it was a mistake to go off on this tangent.
If MHR rushes to defend McDaniels at every instance, even when comments lacking any basis in reason are made, then I think that is a far greater threat to the integrity and impartiality of the site.
But, at least you and I disagree responsibly and respectfully, Steve.. Thanks for your comment.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 5, 2010 6:41 PM MDT up reply actions
If MHR rushes to defend McDaniels at every instance
It’s not every instance, but would it have the “right” if it felt compelled? Hell yes.
So sorry if some people were put-off by this, but the message sent by the sender is pretty clear. Go take your “hate” elsewhere.
I generally sit these discussions out, but if someone wants to rant on those who serve no purpose, then I say go ahead. Your critique only expands the conversation. I dont believe this is required reading anyway.
Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan
by Orange and Blue on Aug 5, 2010 7:37 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree that it is a tough call.
John ignores an awful lot (one doesn’t see him in the comments sections much). There’s much to be said for ignoring some of the more crazy things being written at the site, and I agree to a great extent with you on this point. On the other hand, at some point, it may be reasonable to draw a line in the sand so that some poor soul doesn’t get banned, deleted, or otherwise beat up without fair warning. Perhaps it is John’s intention to let some folks know where that line is.
That’s my guess anyway. I always appreciate the friendly and reasoned disagreements. All the best to you.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Aug 5, 2010 8:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Agree
It seems every so often someone brings this up over and over its really childish. Honestly I’m so over all that and have been since the start of last season its probably time to put all that to rest because its getting away from football and nobody wants to hear it. I forget about it for a while then someone brings it up on these posts with their pitch forks at hand. I’m sure there are people who are still bitter but its only a handful and its a waste of everyone’s time. Lets have this with-us-or-against-us its extremely childish. Lets stick with football yeah? general hospital is on at noon
Very good post Baltimore Bronco your comments made a lot of sense.
by ShyandObese on Aug 7, 2010 12:39 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
general hospital is on at noon
Rec’d! Well said, S&O. : )
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Aug 7, 2010 1:34 PM MDT up reply actions
When it comes to the devout and irrational...
…anti-McD set, I’ve always wondered where they go if McD ultimately proves to be successful? I literally wince in embarrassment at a good number of the Bronco ‘fan’ comments at PFT, NFL.Com, etc and I don’t relish standing shoulder to shoulder with some of these morons along some future parade route…whether it McD that gets us there or not. There is something wrong with ‘Bronco Country’ when its own members have made opposing fans obsolete, what with the internal venom being so severe that the run of the mill Raider, Charger or Chiefs fan can’t compete. And for the likes of Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall? Who’d have thunk it?
Yet then I remind myself that Jay Cutler was wildly and irrationally unpopular among a branch of probably the exact same faithful. And they’re probably the same people who got some sort of perverse joy out of the Jacksonville Debacle, and the subsequent late season swoons the next two years. They aren’t really fans…never have been, and as BB pointed out above, its time to quit taking them so damn serious.
Denialists replace the open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment.-- Michael Spector
by PredominantlyOrange on Aug 5, 2010 2:41 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Vomiting...
in response to such blind, thoughtless criticism and hate seems an appropriate response. Unfortunately such criticism seems all too common these days, and not just in the world of football. At least there are places like MHR where one can go to escape such nonsense.
I still seem to be in a state of denial over Doom’s injury. Everything will check out okay once he gets a second opinion, right?
" If you think Josh McDaniels is the reason Elvis Dumervil go hurt, you are NOT A FAN!"
Or they are just stupid. They are fans, don’t like McD and don’t know how else to vent.
Last time we had a hurricane down in South Florida, I noticed very long lines of cars driving and waiting to get two small bags of free ice. They must have burned 5 gallons of gas (gas stations were closed so you can’t refuel) just to get some ice that will melt in a few minutes anyway. As we could all get free bottled water everywhere, they we’re thirsty….. I had no freakin idea why you’d waste hours of your life in a hot car, burning gas you can’t replace, for a small bag of free ice. Then I realized, some people are just dumb.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
Agree
I think it was a stupid comment. Does not deserve serious consideration or a revival of the pro- and anti- McD debate. I enjoyed the draft this year and the development of the team. That’s what I want to read about. I don’t want to read how every move relates to Josh McDaniels. Let’s analyze the coach at the end of the year. Now is the time for the team and its players to sink or swim.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 5, 2010 2:53 PM MDT up reply actions
“Now is the time for the team and its players to sink or swim.”
Good point, and that means the guys McD brought in seeing as Elvis was a Shanny draft pick. Injuries happen and injuries are no excuse for team performance. How many MHR folks were saying we should have done better last year because we had so few injuries to contend with? No one and that is fine because injuries are just a variable that all teams deal with.
If guys like AYERS, Moreno, Phonz, McBath, Quinn, Decker, Walton, Thomas, and/or Beadles play like high draft picks, we’ll get past this in THIS season.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
absolutely right
the time is now. If the debate is to end it will end based on the performance of these players this year. These guys play well, McD looks better. These guys stink it up, it’ll be hard for me to defend him this time next year.
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
That's the trouble with being too optomistic about this season...
We have too many young guys playing key roles on our team. That’s fine and that’s great because I think we’ll be better for it in the long term. However, the young guys will struggle with the system, they’ll make mistakes, they’ll be physically overmatched. Whenever I read your posts, I get the feeling that you think everyone drafted in the first two rounds will come in and play like a monster from day one. The fact is, for every Brian Orakpo, Jarious Byrd, and Percy Harvin, there are ten guys who struggle. Look at the 2009 draft, there were 64 picks and maybe five of them really made a difference game-in, game-out. Zo Smith struggling to see the field is the normal route for a high second round draft pick. Jarious Byrd is the exception.
If we’re going to “get past this in THIS season”, these rookies are going to have to step up and play like the handful of rookies every year that actually make a difference. Same with the second year guys. It’s great that these guys have a season under their belts, but they are still second year guys and a lot of them struggled last year and didn’t see a ton of time. Furthermore, we have quite a few new FAs that will play a bunch of time. Even with Elvis and Clady, this year would have been a struggle. The good news is, a lot of teams that go through this type of upheaval (head coach, near complete roster turnover, including stars) are uncompetitive for long stretches of time. Fans have to struggle through 3 win seasons, etc. I don’t think there are many people on here that think we’re going to go through that. I sure don’t feel that way.
You know why? Because the guys that McD has brought in (all the draft picks you mentioned, plus Dawkins, Goody, Hill, Gaff, Buck, Green, Bannon, Hoch, Fields, McBean, etc.), the guys he hasn’t shipped out of town (Champ, Royal, Clady, DJ, Harris, Wood, etc.) and the Shanny guys that he’s actually re-signed (Elvis, Haggen, Kuper, etc.) are good, solid men, and they are solid football players as well. Every guy I mentioned is not the type of player that would complain about not getting enough balls, throw temper tantrums on the sidelines, scream at their position coaches.
Teams full of these type of players can win football games and be competitive, even when you lose key guys to injury, even when you’re starting and playing a bunch of players in their first and second years, even when you have a group of guys that’s only been together for a year or two. This season will be frustrating, but it will also be competitive. Those are my two words for the 2010 season— frustrating and competitive. Not the greatest outlook, but I think we have a coach who is building a program that will compete for SBs in the next 5 years.
Won't bow. Don't know how.
by ButteBronco on Aug 5, 2010 4:53 PM MDT up reply actions 6 recs
Excellent
I get a little tired of reading how this team is made up of about 15 or so draft picks, since they are the only players McDaniels wants on the team.
by BroncosBassist on Aug 5, 2010 6:25 PM MDT up reply actions
5 years? Guy only has 3 more years on his deal. He’ll have to show progress this year and/or the next just to see year 4 of that deal.
Bowlen isn’t going to keep a coach that puts a worse team on the field in year 3 than he coached in year 1.
You are preaching to a guy that has said many times I expect an 8-8 season this year before Elvis got hurt and I don’t see that changing by more than a game, if that.
McD didn’t step into a 3 win team. He took what many considered the best job in the NFL after the 2008 season. He inherited a team that was 8-8 and 24-24 over the previous few years. It’s his job to make us better than average. Keeping us average is making no progress, nor improvement. So yes, I expect him to make us better in the next two years and if he can’t I’m ready for the next coach and I think Bowlen will be too.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
I think Jim Caldwell took the best job in the NFL…but granted that really wasnt an open search.
Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan
by Orange and Blue on Aug 5, 2010 10:34 PM MDT up reply actions
I think all of us Kool-Aid-drinking wackos are in the same boat. The only difference seems to be that we’re more patient.
I should have explained my last sentence a little differently. There are many states a football team can be in: noncompetitive, competitive, perennial playoff contenders, super bowl contenders. Most of the time, the SB contenders move through these stages a year or two at a time. I was implying that over the next three years the Broncos will move up to making the playoffs year-in, year-out once McD’s “program” takes hold. Then, in the subsequent years, I feel we’ll have a SB contender. I have confidence in what this coach is trying to accomplish, I understand that some fans do not share in my confidence. I guess that makes me a cheerleader. Someone pass the pom-poms.
I agree with you though, if in three years, McD is still fielding merely competitive, 8-8 teams, he will have had his shot and failed and I wouldn’t be opposed to a coaching change. The object of an NFL program is to win a Super Bowl. I would be disappointed, because I really like McD and hope he and the club enjoy much success.
Josh! Josh! He’s our man! If he can’t do it, no one can!
Won't bow. Don't know how.
Doom gone. Barret and McKinley to IR
Did we piss off the Gods or something? Next we are gonna have a Kraken attack
WTF GEREN?!?!?!
by robbo650 on Aug 5, 2010 3:02 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
We have Tebow
It must be the Pagan Gods who are pissed.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
If we're going to be bitten
better to have guys like McKinley and Barrett take the hit. As long as we don’t lose any more key players.
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
+1 on both accounts... at least I catch one game a year, can't wait till Nov 22nd
DON'T TELL AL GORE WHERE I AM!!!
by manbearpig5000000 on Aug 5, 2010 3:10 PM MDT up reply actions
THANK YOU!
You’re the man John. These football fans lose sight of the fact that this is a brutal, brutal sport, and this s*** just happens sometimes. People just need someone to blame for everything. Some people just can’t take it for what it is.
DON'T TELL AL GORE WHERE I AM!!!
by manbearpig5000000 on Aug 5, 2010 3:14 PM MDT reply actions
Doom out 4 months, McKinley and Barret on IR, the only way to go from here is up. Nice post John. I agree 100%
"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".
"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.
I'm sure someone said that when Moreno and Buck got hurt
Just a thought, knock on wood.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
You sound like me. And you are right if you said that we will suffer another injury or two before this preseason is thru.
Every single NFL team will suffer some minor and major injuries between now and Sept 12th.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
You're right McG.
You’re also right that we can’t blame a season on an injury. Injuries happen. Let’s hope for the best, and let’s see how the team adjusts.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Aug 5, 2010 4:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Well I think you can put some blame on injuries for a bad season
If Manning got hurt in Indy, I would most certainly blame that injury if they didn’t make the playoffs. Or you can look at San Diego, who had lots of injuries last season, but still went 13-3.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
It is a matter of perspective.
In my view, we go to war with the army we have (or to the season with the team we have). In my context, “if” doesn’t enter the reasoning. We “might” have drafted a certain player, or we “could” have had an uninjured player, or “if” we had run a different play, etc. In the end, the only thing that matters is what is in front of me on game day.
It may be a coaching instinct instead of a purely fan instinct. Whenever I was asked about a player we didn’t have available, I always thought to myself, “What does THAT have to do with anything? I’m too busy preparing for what I CAN do this week”. If our team lost a game (and that was pretty infrequent), it never dawned on me to blame the fact that we didn’t have an injured player available. I might as well point out that I didn’t have the 22+ players from the other team playing for our side. It just doesn’t matter.
I’m not saying that folks shouldn’t speculate, or discuss the issue, or have opinions. Folks can even blame the season on an ijury or two if they want. I’m just saying that for me it doesn’t work out that way. (And I also agree with John that blaming a coach for a player’s injury in this case is foolish). Just my own opinion, and smarter folks than I will disagree.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
by Steve Nichols on Aug 6, 2010 1:21 PM MDT up reply actions
I think we can manage without Doom, but I can see how this has some potential to turn out as a Disaster with the money situation.
You see, If Elvis is out this year (Which it looks like) and If there is no season next year (Which it looks like there wont be) then Elvis wont play until September of 2012. Which would put him about 1000 whole days between football games. That is over 2 and a half years. It is most likely he wont put up the same #’s after a 2 and a half year layoff so that is 2, maybe 3 years of his prime gone and alot of money paid to him, However, this is just speculating and for all we know we could make a playoff run and he will dominate later on. I think the Dee will carry this team and if the D line takes up blockers, Moss and Ayers can excel. Bottom line is that i dont regret the deal b/c without it, his career as a Broncos may have been over.
You are speculating. There will probably be a season in 2011 and if there is not, that will be over 500+ days where every single NFL player doesn’t play a snap between this Super Bowl and September 2012.
Is there really a difference in not playing football for 500 days or 1000 days? If there is, it’s not much.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
There is going to be football in 2011
Count on it. The NFL is going to get this done. If there is a holdout then nobody is going to get money. EVERYONE loses during a holdout. Someone will give in.
Last Name: Ever, First Name: Greatest
"Just Win Baby Win" -Me
Xbox360 gamertag: SnipeMeHarder
NHL bro NHL
in many regards the system is broken. It may take a while and some sacrifice to fix.
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
Thanks, John
for voicing the feelings of a lot of us.
'The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.'
-- Albert Einstein
by hairybear on Aug 5, 2010 4:26 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Amen John.
Injuries happen to every team, and there is just no argument when it comes to trying to blame a coach. Hell, the player isn’t even blaming the coach. Injuries happen to every team every year; who ever heard of blaming the coach for that? Anyone who could possibly blame the coach for Doom’s injury is so beyond reason that you’re right; they aren’t fans. Only a McD hater could possibly try to pin this on the coach.
On the other hand, I do disagree with bringing in White. Like you I think it is debatable, and like you I agree that this isn’t a major role position for us to worry about. My disagreement with bringing in a back-up or camp fodder player over a suspension or drug history is minor. I’m fine with it, it just doesn’t fit with what I’d like to do. I’m not the coach though, so I’ll support the decision even though I don’t think it was for the best.
Formerly known as Hoosierteacher or just HT.
"I presume that all of you here think me worthy of pity. But Great God, when I think I was on the point of doing nothing, I consider myself worthy of envy." Jean Valjean, Hugo's Les Miserables
All McD's fault
he shouldn’t have reached into Dumervil’s chest and ripped his pectoral muscle right off the bone. That was just uncalled for.
In all seriousness, last I checked Dumervil didn’t throw or catch passes or take handoffs. He didn’t return punts or kickoffs. In other words he didn’t put points on the board. And right now, that’s the side of the ball I’m worried about.
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
Oddly, I have had a calm feeling about the offense for a month or so
No real solid facts or reasoning….just what I sense when trying to take in the gestalt.
I hope the Broncos Annual doesn't start it's own Madden Curse type of thing :).
We’ll have to put start putting 3rd string guys on the cover just to stay safe lol.
or Philip Rivers
Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan
by Orange and Blue on Aug 5, 2010 7:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes, this is friggin football
but a torn pec is basically a non-contact injury and it just sucks to see a guy go down like that. It brings out all kinds of emotions and while I do not blame McD, I don ‘t hold it against you if you do. You can be as pissed at McD as you want and put all of the Broncs problems at his feet if you want and still be Bronco fan in my book. This is pro sports and he’s the head coach. He gets big bucks to take the crap no matter how stupid it seems. The Broncos are not a boy band and we are not all little girls. We can be critical and it’s okay.
by The Wad on Aug 5, 2010 7:55 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I do not like to come here and read our people dwelling on negativity
I can get enough from other sites like these comments ;-)
Poo Flinging Monkey says:
August 5, 2010 7:29 PM
Hate to see this… Dumervil is a great player, and now the Broncos are even worse.
They were already one of the least talented teams in the league. Now… they’re hosed.
4-12-0 in 2010
onlymyopinionmatters says:
August 5, 2010 7:35 PM
told you McDaniels and Bowlen were idiots and Elvis was soft
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
Well the first one makes a bit of sense
Our defense won’t hardly be the same, especially in the pass rush, 4-12 is pessemistic, but it might not be to far off, depending. The second one is just crazy.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
were we really one of the least talented team?
I am thinking we STILL have a really decent defense and keep in mind Martindale comes from the “Ryan” school of defense and the Jets did ok with out a real pass rush last year and I think if we can stop the run we measure up pretty good to them with our new guys on the D Line. They run the ball much better I admit.
I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. Coach Norman Dale "Hoosiers"
Well outside of Champ, Doom, Clady and Dawkins
We really don’t have any top tier players. I wouldn’t say least talented, but I would say we are below average. Plus the fact that two of our top players are currently injured, yes, I think that makes us a much less talented team. Not the least talented, or even bottom ten, but we sure are top ten.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
I’m behind the times a little bit. I’ve been busy over the last two days. Can anybody give me sort of the full-meal-deal on this? Is this injury for sure? How likely is it that he’s out for the season?
It's just about time for us to get out there and win a MF Game!
Looks like Elvis is out until Dec 1ish. If that is the case, I think he’ll be on IR after week 6, when he comes off the PUP list. Only way he doesn’t go on IR after week 6 is if he is healing ahead of that Dec 1st date and we get him back for enough games (I’d say 6) to make it worth carrying him on the roster for the four games he can’t play (week 7 thru 11) there must be a bye in there somewhere. I’m not much of a schedule watcher.
don’t think the Brits are going to get to see him play though.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
I wrote this in another post so I will just copy paste it:
If you do not go into camp on PUP, you can’ t be put on PUP.
The only option then is IR and you are lost for season.
If you go into camp on PUP and are not moved off of it before the season starts, you will miss the first 6 games.
You cannot practice with the team in TC if you are on PUP, but you can rehabilitate.
Pretty likely, although he may make it back in Nov or Dec
We don’t have all the info yet, but yes, the injury is for sure. He was in a drill and tore the pectoralis muscle.
Gnothi Seauton
This is playing out like a movie for Jarvis Moss
I just hope he realizes that he’s the protagonist in this flick.
Drafted with lofty expectations. Doesn’t produce. Called a bust. Nearly retires. Perseveres. Makes large strides. Starter goes down…
Becomes the greatest player of all time(?)(!)
Well maybe not, but he has the opportunity to step up in a huge way and quite frankly the fact that he almost retired but didn’t last year stuck with me and I will be cheering him on all season.
Most of us didn’t expect him to make the team last year let alone this year and now he has a chance to start.
It would be a great story and I will watch it on ESPN 30 for 30 six years from now.
Why does Madden suck at ranking the Broncos so much?
by ChristianL on Aug 5, 2010 10:05 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Well said once again John.
You always manage to put a level-headed view on a topic when needed and you hit it right on the button.
Change is always hard to deal with. I will ask those fans that are complaining about McDaniels, “Were you happy with how we were playing with Shanahan as the HC?” I mean be happy we aren’t trying to rebuild a team that has lost 10+ games for like 7 straight season.
Unfortunately some people complain for the sake of complaining and you just can’t do anything about them.
Floyd Little: HOF Class of 2010.
2009-10 back-to-back NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009-10 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
Preach it, brother
I really feel for those people that seem destined to keep themselves in perpetual hell by regurgitating the same old BS about McD. Saw an article today on Bleacher Report that was one more demonstration of what a parody of themselves those “McD put us in a downward spiral and I can’t wait till he’s gone” people have become. If you’re one of those types, do us all a favor and stay away from your keyboard until 2012. Thanks.
I like Josh. But I need Ws.
Disagree
This is where I disagree with many of the inner circle of MHR. I really value tolerance of other’s opinions as the price of an open and free society, including Denver Bronco fandom. Josh McDaniels is a big boy. He is very confident and fully capable of dealing with criticism. So am I. If I don’t like something someone writes and it is a cogent argument, I respond. If it is nonsense, I ignore the comment.
However, I strongly disagree with the idea that if people say something different, even totally negative, that they should stay away.
If you only want to read when others agree with you or support your views, you are going to become strident, isolated, and one-dimensional. The problem with that is that one view of things seldom holds all of the truth all of the time.
For example, people can respectfully disagree whether bringing in a player like Lendale White is a good move.in line with the “good character” philosophy… Well, that whole discussion basically got lost in this thread because of the article making it more about unfair attacks on Josh McDaniels. I think that just perpetuates the Us v. Them view of McDaniels from last year that many of us have moved on from. Very little of this week’s events was about Josh McDaniels.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 6, 2010 9:06 AM MDT up reply actions
just venting, B-more
I have no problem with dissent, critique, or cogent arguments, and I’m not trying to stir up or perpetuate ill will. I remember those days wayyy too clearly and still have the toothmarks in my underwear. I have zero interest in going back there again.
What I’m calling out are the clichés. If someone honestly feels that only effect of the current regime has been to mindlessly sink the team, you have the right to feel miserable. Don’t change your heartfelt opinion on my account. Just please, give the world a halfway reasonable, cogent criticism. Don’t give us a cliché.
In other words, keep it real. Like Baltimore Bronco. ; )
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Aug 6, 2010 11:55 AM MDT up reply actions
Thanks
hey, I understand venting, and maybe being at a distance keeps me away from being more volatile about things…
thanks for the kind comments… and I greatly respect all that the MHR commentators do for us.
by Baltimore Bronco on Aug 6, 2010 2:24 PM MDT up reply actions
no problem B
Thanks for letting me vent. I’ve long enjoyed your views, as hopefully you remember, even those I haven’t always agreed with.
Also, just for the record, not sure from your notes if you’re under the impression that i’m a commentator or MHR inner circle guy. I’m just a plain ole fan from Montana. : )
In good times and bad times, I'm a Bronco fan. Sucka.
by broncosmontana on Aug 6, 2010 2:48 PM MDT up reply actions
Quickly...
A few people asked why I felt compelled to write this post. First, I reacted to some things I was hearing, both on sports radio in Denver and reading through various outlets. Lord help us all if I lived in Denver and reacted to everything I heard!!!
:)
Secondly, this site, at it’s core, is a therapeutic outlet for me. That’s the reason I started it, and from time to time it is still going to be used that way – an avenue for me to ‘go off’ when I feel the need too. I know some won;t always agree with me, and that’s ok, but I am going to do it. I have to, for my sanity’s sake!
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
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by John Bena on Aug 6, 2010 6:44 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Can we put Doom on the PUP or are we going to have to carry him on the 53 man roster starting Sept 12?
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
PUP
Doom cannot go on PUP because he started Training Camp on the Active Roster. Guys like Jamal Williams, or Ryan Clady, can be put on PUP because they started Camp on Active PUP.
The only choices for the Broncos regarding Doom, and likely the reason they are taking their time with a determination, is they want to see if it would be worth it to carry Doom’s spot if he can come back late in the season.
-TSG
SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport
Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605
Follow MHR on Twitter!
Follow MHR on Facebook!
XBox Gamertag - MileHighReport
Playstation Gamertag - TheSportsGuru
YoYou have stated what a Broncos fan is not, and now I'm going to tell you what one is...
an enthusiastic devotee, follower, or an admirer of the Denver Broncos. They don’t have to think like other fans, they don’t have to agree with other fans, they don’t have to march lock-step with other fans, they don’t have to watch games on T.V. with other fans, they don’t have to attend games with other fans, and they certainly don’t have the right to say that other Denver Broncos fans aren’t fans because they have invoked their right to say what’s on their mind.
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