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Around SBN: The Worst Team Ever Projected?

Countdown To Cutdown: The Brady Quinn-Tim Tebow Conundrum

About 12 hours ago, I asked the community of Broncos fans here at MileHighReport to answer a simple, yet challenging question.  Who Should Be The Broncos #2 Quarterback?  I added a caveat to the question, however, one that parallels how coaches think when they are building a team - at any position.  Injuries happen.  There are devastating injuries - injuries that change the focus of a season.  Losing Kyle Orton for the season would fall into that category.

There are also injuries that, while certainly having an affect,  the goals of the season shouldn't change.  To me, that length of time is 4 games - 25% of the season.  When coaches create their depth charts, I believe they use this number a a guide.  I've talked to football people about this - and listened to others that have discussed it - and believe it to be true.  So I asked, if Kyle Orton went down for 4 games, who would give the Broncos the best chance to go at least 2-2 during that stretch? 

The result, which at the time I write this are over 1200 responses, is lopsided.  76% of you say the guy should be Tim Tebow.  You have also asked who I'd go with.  In this case, Broncos Country, I agree with you.

If the Broncos lost Kyle Orton during the season for a month or so, Tim Tebow gives the Broncos the best chance to win.

Star-divide

Secretly, I felt that way the minute I saw Tebow on the practice field.  Not because I am a Gators fan, or huge Tebow fan -far from it, I'm from Ohio, home of the Buckeyes, the Gators are not among my favorite teams.  No, it was because I knew what Brady Quinn was, and has been, and I knew what Tim Tebow could be.

It would be easy to look at good or bad games and make my comparison.  I could skew the numbers to back  my opinion.  Fortunately for me, last night provided all the evidence I need.  Both players played pretty well and finished the game with QB-Ratings over 100.  Look a bit deeper at the numbers, however.

Player Com. Att. Yards Comp. % Y/Comp TD INT Rating
Tim Tebow 12 16 169 75% 13.9 1 1 102.9
Brady Quinn 14 21 149 66.6% 10.6 1 0 103.1

Both players played well.  One number I am really focusing on is Yards and Yards per Completion.  Tebow completed 2 FEWER passes, yet threw for 18 MORE yards.  That is nearly 2 free first downs.  Did Tebow make some mistakes?  Yes he did.  The fumbled-snap could be blamed on him, and the interception was a poor throw.  But here's the difference, and we'll forget the snap for a second since it could, and does, happen to all quarterbacks.  Tim Tebow was looking down-field, and even on the interception it was the RIGHT DECISION. 

If you can, watch the replay of Tebow's pick.  He takes the snap, and fakes the hand-off.  He then looks downfield and sees his receiver splitting a double-team down the left seam.  Unfortuantely, Tebow's feet were not firmly under him and his momentum was going backward instead of forward.  The result?  The throw is short, thus being picked off.  The mental portion of the play wasn't wrong, it was the physical part.  That is correctable.

More importantly, how did Tebow respond?  By completing 10 passes in a row right after the interception.  That shows mental toughness.  All these 'intangibles' everyone talks about?  That is what that means.  Tebow isn't afraid to make a mistake and he isn't afraid to trust what he sees after he makes one.

Let's look at Brady Quinn.  My biggest problem with Quinn, whether it was Notre Dame, or with Cleveland, or what I have seen in Denver has been his decision making.  Sure, there are limitations to his throwing.  Not everyone has a John Elway-arm.  Quinn has struggled against upper-echelon defenses at every level.  Look at the Fiesta Bowl against Ohio State,  or the Sugar Bowl against LSU.  Were the Irish outmatched talent-wise in those games?  Yes.  But Quinn didn't play well in those games either.

Even the game that Quinn did look solid - against the Broncos in 2007 - it was mainly checkdowns to Kellen Winslow.  Brady Quinn doesn't attack downfield. 

Now, before you bring up Kyle Orton in 2009, there is a difference between 'checking down' and refusing to attack downfield.  There is a reason that Matt Leinart is losing the QB job in Arizona to Derek Anderson - the same reason Brady Quinn couldn't beat Anderson - they leave big plays on the field.  Coaches, when looking at the game tape, see receivers running open downfield while Quinn, and in this case Leinart, choose to take the low-risk, low reward completion.  It drives coaches CRAZY, and eventually they choose the guy that isn't afraid to take a shot when it presents itself.  Not all bad decisions end with an interception.  Sometimes they end in a 5 yard completion on 3rd and 7 instead of a 25 yard completion and a First Down.

Going back to last night, Tebow actually did both!  His completion percentage - 75% - was higher than Quinn's despite taking more shots down the field.  While Quinn did throw a TD pass - a 14-yarder to Alric Arnett - it was two other times in the Red Zone, when Quinn didn't take a shot at 7, that may have cost the Broncos the game. 

The first, after the Alphonso Smith INT, the Broncos had 1st and Goal from the Vikings 7.  After a running play got stuffed, Quinn threw a 6-yard completion.  The next two plays, 3rd and 4th down runs, were stuffed by the Vikings.  All Quinn's fault?  No.  But it was a golden opportunity the Broncos missed on by not taking a shot.

Of course, the last one, when the Broncos were driving at the end of the game, is a bit unfair to pin on Quinn.  He made some solid passes - mostly to Eric Decker - under heavy pressure.  His 4th down pass was a drop by Riar Greer.  Again though, the Broncos need several plays to move downfield instead of trying to attack the defense.  The drop isn't Quinn's fault, but you keep checking down, eventually you'll be stopped - by the defense or yourself.

I knew when the Broncos acquired Brady Quinn that he would be a total rebuild - mentally and fundamentally.  Training Camp and the preseason has proved that to be true.  In a lot of ways, Tim Tebow is more prepared to be the starting quarterback should Orton go down than Quinn is, despite being a rookie.  In this case, Quinn's experience actually is a detriment.

In the end, I believe the Broncos will keep 3 quarterbacks.  I believe Brady Quinn can be an asset, even if it is to trade at some point.  Right now, however, should Kyle Orton miss time - and we all hope that DOES NOT HAPPEN - Tim Tebow would give the Broncos the best chance to survive, and when you go to the backup QB, survival is all you can hope for.

Comment 71 comments  |  18 recs  | 

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Nice review, Gave rec'd

I thought Quinn did enough to at least get a chance with another squad if Devner doesn’t keep 3 QBs.

I though Tebow did a great job and gave his review here
http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/9/3/1667737/tebows-final-preseason-game-review

by agentj007 on Sep 3, 2010 12:43 PM MDT reply actions  

Hey guys

There’s a post over at the AP discussing the Chiefs and whether we should try and get Quinn.
Here’s the link: http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/9/3/1667411/brady-quinn-a-chief

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.

by CPT.Caveman on Sep 3, 2010 7:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

Not much love for him over there

Atleast one poster said

Quinn > Russell

so he has that going for him!

So I see you rolled your way into the semis?

by OutOfYourElement on Sep 4, 2010 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

Obviously they'd keep Tebow

Even if Tebow played horrible, like Russell terrible, we’d still keep him, mostly because you don’t draft a 1st round quarterback and the not keep him. There’s no way Quinn would stay if we only keep two quarterbacks, even if Quinn outplayed Tebow. This wouldn’t be a test of skill at all, it would be about McD’s commitment to Tebow rather then who actually is playing better.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Sep 3, 2010 12:46 PM MDT reply actions  

Right..

This is more about who the #2 quarterback should be. I’ve thought all along they would keep 3 QBs regardless…

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

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by John Bena on Sep 3, 2010 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think the #2 shouldn't be the person you've invested in

Rather it should be the best one for the job. If Quinn had played fantastic this preseason, and we could only keep two, it would still be Tebow, not based on skill, but rather on commitment to a draft choice.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Sep 3, 2010 12:57 PM MDT up reply actions  

thats a whole other argument and irrelevant here. the point of this post was to reflect on who would be the #2 for Broncos in 2010.

Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan

by Orange and Blue on Sep 3, 2010 1:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

That's what I was kind of saying..

I understand what Maxwell is saying, but that is no my argument here….

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

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by John Bena on Sep 3, 2010 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

As well as the fact it is a "make believe" scenario...

that no amount of facts or reasoning can dispute, because no facts are associated with it.

Hypothetical # 1 – “If Quinn had played fantastic this preseason…”

Hypothetical #2 – “… and we could only keep two (QB’s)…”

It’s hard to discuss hypotheticals without it becoming a no-win exercise.

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."

by BroncTastic on Sep 3, 2010 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

Most predictions are "make believe"

Nothing can really predict what will happen, we make “make believe” situations to look at possible outcome of what could happen. I didn’t say Quinn outplayed Tebow, I’m only presenting the idea to get a feel for how people feel about it.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Sep 3, 2010 2:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well, I know the whole Orton out for 4 games is a hypothetical

but it is a reasonable one based on past NFL history of QB’s getting injured.

The one’s regarding “If Quinn had played fantastic this preseason,” when he hasn’t and the other of “and we could only keep two QB’s,” when all signs/quotes from the coach say we’ll keep three, are not based on anything from the past that supports them.

Actually not trying to be argumentative. I just not typing as clearly as I’m thinking…

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."

by BroncTastic on Sep 3, 2010 2:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

I have a hard time with this

We are basing a very large decision on a very small amount of game time, and preseason game time at that. There are many situational factors that contribute to these stats that only occur in preseason games:

  • Mixing of first/second/third team players, many of whom won’t even be with the team when the regular season starts
  • Playing against teams who are also experimenting with rosters
  • Vanilla offensive and defensive packages
  • The “this game really doesn’t count” factor, i.e. taking more chances with throws in a preseason game

We have no idea what Tebow will look like in a regular season game, and while he has looked good so far in the preseason, I would take the QB who has seen real game time over an unknown at this point. Brady has at least played in more than one full regular season game. If either QB was forced to take the field if Orton got hurt, I’m sure the offensive play calling complexity would be reduced significantly, and in that case, I would prefer someone with some experience to “manage” the offense at that point.

"I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Stay Puft!"

by afeather on Sep 3, 2010 12:49 PM MDT reply actions   2 recs

Definitely a fair view...

and you support your viewpoint well…

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

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by John Bena on Sep 3, 2010 12:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

really? so Quinn playing badly for 2 years for the Browns is a better option because he has had the experience…of being awful.

Tebow was a 1st rd draft pick, that only plays a part in this decision, but he has also out-played the 3rd yr vet. It’s not like Tebow will be rattled by the stage, unlike most QBs. You are selling Tebow short IMO.

Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan

by Orange and Blue on Sep 3, 2010 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

+1

I think John said it pretty well above

In this case, Quinn’s experience actually is a detriment

A lot of folks are asking for Quinn simply based on experience. His record and stats from that ‘experience’ are horrible. Tebow is only getting better at this point, but has already outplayed Quinn in my opinion.

So I see you rolled your way into the semis?

by OutOfYourElement on Sep 3, 2010 1:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

It worked for Orton

He played poorly to average in Chicago and he got the starting job here. Orton has plenty of experience of being awful prior to coming here, but he turned out pretty well don’t you think.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Sep 3, 2010 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think you are totally wrong on that Max. Orton's play at Chicago trended upwards EVERY year.

You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!

"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"

Harv Neptune.

by boydy2669 on Sep 3, 2010 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

I totally agree with you

But when he left Chicago, his personal numbers were hardly anything to be proud of. I was an Orton fan in Chicago, much more so then Grossman, but his play there, while trending upwards as shown very well by our own staff here, wasn’t good. Actually it was average or worse, and that’s a hard fact to deny. I am not totally wrong for saying Orton played average in Chicago, it’s a fact.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Sep 3, 2010 2:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

But you said poorly to average, didn't you?

Tip: Orton memorabilia soon to increase in value, buy now!

by azdenfan on Sep 3, 2010 6:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yea, poorly to average

At time Quinn played average, heck he even had some great games, at other times he played poorly, what’s your point?

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Sep 3, 2010 6:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

You said Orton played poorly in Chicago

And my point is that you are wrong.

Tip: Orton memorabilia soon to increase in value, buy now!

by azdenfan on Sep 4, 2010 6:15 AM MDT up reply actions  

I didn't think anyonne actually believed that

And I’m an Orton fan from Chicago. Okay, here we go:
Orton 2005-2008:
- 505/913
- 54.6% completion %
- 5319 yards, or 1773 per season
- 5.83 YPA
- 160.7 YPG
- 3.37 TD%
- 2.87 Int. %
- 71.07 QB Rating

I know he was playing for Chicago, but how are any of those numbers good? 54.6% isn’t good for anyone, 5.83 YPC is just outright terrible, if you are throwing for 160.7 YPG, you are barely making a difference for your offense and his TD/Int. ratio is just as bad. I’m an Orton fan, but I don’t think Orton would say he played well in Chicago.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Sep 4, 2010 8:55 AM MDT up reply actions  

my bad

I was just looking at that 21-12 record. Pretty sweet despite his stats.

Tip: Orton memorabilia soon to increase in value, buy now!

by azdenfan on Sep 4, 2010 4:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

You're right

He was a good “don’t lose us the game” type of quarterback, and in 2008, he grew a lot, same in 2009, but he was hardly great before he came here. But a winning record speaks for itself.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Sep 5, 2010 9:06 AM MDT up reply actions  

Experience is experience

The point is that Tebow could be perfect out there if put in during the regular season…or he could fail miserably. I just don’t believe the quality of preseaon is the best way to judge. Example: Kyle Orton last year preseason. His performance then was the whole reason we started the debate between Tom and Chris last year.

Now, being a Bronco fan, I want Tebow to thrive if put in this year, but if we’re trying to go 2-2 during the four games Kyle is out, I feel like the coaching staff knows enough about Brady Quinn to pull that off.

"I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Stay Puft!"

by afeather on Sep 3, 2010 3:08 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Clarification:

My point in mentioning Kyle’s preseason last year is to show how even though his performance during it was poor, he turned out to have a fantastic regular season. I’m a big Kyle Orton fan.

"I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Stay Puft!"

by afeather on Sep 3, 2010 3:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

Chris Simms
I would take the QB who has seen real game time over an unknown at this point

The exact same argument was used for Chris Simms last year vs Brandstater. Yes may be unfair to compare Quinn to Simms, but the idea that just because he has game experience puts him automatically into the # 2 QB is looking through a very narrow lens. I believe that McD brought in Quinn just for this purpose – to have a #2 QB with recent (as opposed to Simms) NFL experience. However, once McD met Tebow and drafted TT, I believe that McD “Upgraded” his options. TIME WILL TELL. Just raise a glass to Orton staying healthy – and do not fret over the future.

TIME TO BELIEVE. BRONCO Champions are being forged as we speak

by Broncobh on Sep 3, 2010 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yep. But Brady Quinn's "experiences" are awful man. Why do that to your team? He has played the same all 4 years in the NFL with no tangible improvements. Tebow has improved more in 4 weeks than Quinn has in 4 years.

You, my friend, are proof you dont need to have big floppy feet and a red nose to be a clown!

"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"

Harv Neptune.

by boydy2669 on Sep 3, 2010 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Tebow has improved more in 4 weeks than Quinn has in 4 years.

yipes. i’d be hard pressed to call that an exaggeration.

by oxmouth on Sep 3, 2010 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

Tebow has improved more in 4 weeks than Quinn has in 4 years.

truth right there

by thedoctor on Sep 3, 2010 2:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well put, John.

Personally, I would also factor in that the Broncos want Tebow to be The Man someday. While there’s more than a solid argument against starting a high drafted rookie, the argument weakens on down the depth chart. Putting Tebow at third string places him a little further from reps, a little further from real game action and a little further even, from sideline conferences between Orton and the coaches on game day. He needs to be involved in the fray as much as possible.

Because of that, Quinn needed to clearly—CLEARLY—be the better QB, not just a little better or about equal. I don’t think he did that.

by oxmouth on Sep 3, 2010 1:00 PM MDT reply actions  

excellent point oxmouth

If Orton goes down neither Tebow or Quinn can save us so give Tebow the reps.

by highplainsdrift'r on Sep 3, 2010 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

John,

Very well put. That is why you get the big bucks!

by swg777 on Sep 3, 2010 1:01 PM MDT reply actions  

Actually, I had voted for Quinn on the previous post,

thinking he, had more NFL experience. I had believed that perhaps he had
been rushed into the job at Cleveland, loosing confidence.

I think I’ll change that vote now, even though I was opposed to Tebow, when
he was drafted. He is starting to grow on me…

Go Broncos
And Rec’d

Real Power, comes with the realization that One cannot change the Moment;
only ones perception of it: Atitude! JQM

by UB3 on Sep 3, 2010 1:13 PM MDT reply actions  

Opps, What Tebow lacks can only be learned in playing and if Orton is gone and the season with it who cares if we win 1 or 2 more games with Quinn which we might not do anyway

by highplainsdrift'r on Sep 3, 2010 1:19 PM MDT reply actions  

but the post poses the question if we need a 4 game “reliever” at QB.

Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan

by Orange and Blue on Sep 3, 2010 1:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

I understand but even Orton out for just 4 games most likely means no playoffs so why not take a look at the future and maybe hasten it a bit?

by highplainsdrift'r on Sep 3, 2010 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

I still think Tebow gives Denver/McD more options and better use of all of its weapons. He would make mistakes undoubtedly, but I can assure you Quinn would too. To expect one to be Orton-esque would be silly.

Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan

by Orange and Blue on Sep 3, 2010 1:23 PM MDT reply actions  

Good analysis John

I agree completely. I feel a lot better, after last night, about Quinn then I did last week, but Tebow is the man. I will say it again to the Tebow haters, if his name was Brandstater or some other unknown and he had performed the way he has in preseason, you would be his biggest supporters. Forget the hype and fawning and the gushing over Tebow the Gator. He is a Bronco now and all we care about is what has he done for us lately. And lately has been pretty darn good!

by John in Castle Rock on Sep 3, 2010 1:24 PM MDT reply actions  

Before the Minnesota game

I for Sure would have said Tebow over Quinn. But Quinn showed a little something that says Quinn can make the strides that Orton has made over the past year.

Josh McDaniels-All he wants to do is win a MF'in game!

by RockyMountainThunder on Sep 3, 2010 1:31 PM MDT reply actions  

Agree with your take

but that last pass to Geer was a designed play – there was no read to be made unless the QB sees a defender jumping it – and then Geer dropped it. Point being, I don’t think you can put that one on BQ in any way. That said, even if they complete that pass, score the touchdown and win the game, I still vote for Tebow.
Go Broncs!

It's "just" football

by Donkhead on Sep 3, 2010 1:43 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

THANK YOU!

I agree with the main point, TT SHOULD be the # 2 now. However, I’m noticing a maddening trend that smacks of Cutler/Plummer.

TT fumbles the snap or throws a pick, we are finding reasons to overlook it. It wasn’t his fault, it happens, it was the right decision, etc. No. It’s his job to secure the snap. Has KO dropped a snap from Walton this preseason? One of the knocks on TT is his lack of experience under center, and how that might contribute to turnovers.

If BQ makes any of those same plays, he’s lost or incompetent or deer in the headlights. By my count, Geer dropped one last night and I can think of at least one other deep ball Quinn put right in Willis’ hands that Willis flat out dropped.

Again, I still think TT has proven to be the better player. But if we’re going to compare numbers, let’s do it fairly. TT doesn’t need us finding reasons to forgive his mistakes. He’s a rookie, and I’m sure he’d much rather take responsibility and learn from them….

- Nick

"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu

"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth

by ncm42 on Sep 3, 2010 3:36 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

There are some similarities....

I started this site during that time so I was right in the middle of that mess.

One huge difference… That situation was for the starting spot. A position that is a HUGE deal in Denver because of Elway. This is merely for the backup job. Kyle Orton is the undoubted starting QB of the Denver Broncos and should be.

All I am saying is, in my opinion, what I have seen after watching all 4 games, and about 15 hours of Training Camp practices, that if Kyle Orton went down I would feel more confident with Tim Tebow at quarterback. Period. Nothing more. Not bashing Quinn. But like you hear from coaches all the time – they will take a physicial mistake anyday over a mental mistake. The mistakes I see Tebow making are physical mistakes. Quinn’s are mental.

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
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by John Bena on Sep 3, 2010 5:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

Agreed all around!

I didn’t mean to come across as an ass. I just prefer straight comparisons, but I think your point about “physical vs mental mistakes” is well-stated. I have to give props to boydy, because he has been saying this most of the preseason. The biggest thing, in my eyes, is that Tebow is showing rapid and significant improvement, especially compared to any baby steps Quinn is taking.

- Nick

"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu

"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth

by ncm42 on Sep 4, 2010 11:29 AM MDT up reply actions  

Oh, and

“I started this site during that time so I was right in the middle of that mess”….

Have any of us thanked you lately???? ;-)

- Nick

"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu

"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth

by ncm42 on Sep 4, 2010 11:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

Quinn

…could be a good system quarterback and could run our first-team offense competently. I think he’ll get a lot better this year as he gets more familiar with the offense, and if he had a year under his belt already like KO does would easily be beating out Tebow right now. The only problem is that Timmy will likely improve just as quickly, and even if KO leaves Quinn won’t ever get a shot at running the offense here in Denver except if it’s via injury. This year, I’ll take TT as the #2 because of the running threat and fact that Quinn doesn’t seem to be ahead of him in picking up the offense. I have to say, I DON’T think the emergency-QB rule should be a consideration in having TT as our #2, because it’s just too tough to imagine a situation inside the red zone where our best option involves taking KO off the field. So I’m not all that convinced TT should be coming in on goal-line packages this year (which seems to be the area most people are pointing towards for “situational” use of TT). But yeah, Tebow as #2 because Quinn isn’t any better at running the offense, and Tebow can run .

by MontanaBronco on Sep 3, 2010 1:46 PM MDT reply actions  

I see alot of the same theme here...

“Tebow will be the #2 because the Broncos want him to succeed”. I understand this point, but believe me, if the Broncos are in the middle of the season and in the midst of a playoff fight, I doubt they would start Tebow just because he was their 1st Round pick….

Coaches will start the guy they feel gives them the best chance. In this case, I believe that man is Tebow. If McDaniels feels otherwise, Quinn will be the guy….

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605

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by John Bena on Sep 3, 2010 1:58 PM MDT reply actions  

And I keep hearing that

And I know McD is a smart personnel man, he knows how to run a team, but he wouldn’t be the first coach to favor his draft pick over others. Many good players have been sidelined because of coaches stubbornness to start or use their player. I trust McD and will support and try to understand his decisions, but it’s not crazy or outlandish to say his investment in Tebow might cloud his judgement.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Sep 3, 2010 2:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

True

But, I would argue that Quinn is as much “his pick” as Tebow, seeing as how he went out and traded for him this offseason.

If Quinn self destructs and Tebow turns into some sort of John Elway/Roger Staubach/Otto Graham monster, he’d still be .500 on QBs this offseason.

McD will play whoever he thinks will give us a better chance of winning. If Kyle went down week 1 and McD felt Jamarcus Russel would be a better QB, he’d go sign the man.

by M1911 on Sep 3, 2010 3:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

I didn't say Quinn was his pick

That’s the point, Tebow is his pick. When you say “McD will play whoever he thinks will give us a better chance of winning” I can accept that, but he is human, he has tendencies and weaknesses, and coaches often say they will play the best person on the field, but it doesn’t always work that way.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Sep 3, 2010 6:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well max, McD is (rumored to be) shopping Phonz

If true, that would suggest (not prove) at least the ability to avoid sticking with a decision out of stubbornness…..I guess (like everything else) we just have to wait and watch it play out.

by idahobronc on Sep 3, 2010 8:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

I agree

The Smith being shopped around is a good indicator of McD’s mentality, and I think it shows his mind set, but think how Bowlen or the media or the fans would react if McD started shopping Tebow next season?

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Sep 3, 2010 8:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

Unfair
it was two other times in the Red Zone, when Quinn didn’t take a shot at 7, that may have cost the Broncos the game

Or maybe it was Tebow’s 2 turnovers that gave MIN possesion inside the 10 and directly lead to 10 points that cost DEN the game….

by Mike Riley322 on Sep 3, 2010 3:54 PM MDT reply actions  

Oh nice point

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Sep 3, 2010 6:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

The Interception was a bad read...
He then looks downfield and sees his receiver splitting a double-team down the left seam.

Actually the read was entirely wrong… THe WR didnt split the double team… The DB was playing press coverage and using a trail technique know he had safety help over the top… Basically the pass he to be perfect and the safety sees the ball… Advantage DEF. Bad pass and Bad read!!!!

by Mike Riley322 on Sep 3, 2010 4:20 PM MDT reply actions  

If he steps into that throw...

It’s a touchdown. Look at his footwork – his body was ‘falling away’ from where he was trying to throw it. Because of that, the ball floated and was short.

-TSG

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by John Bena on Sep 3, 2010 5:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'm with you John

The safety wouldn’t have had a chance if TT could have gotten a few more yards on that toss.

Tip: Orton memorabilia soon to increase in value, buy now!

by azdenfan on Sep 3, 2010 6:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

But you can say that about any bad play

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Sep 3, 2010 6:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

Disagree...

There are poor throws and poor decisions. Throws are physical, decisions are mental.

We can agree to disagree here, and that is OK. Just my opinion…

-TSG

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by John Bena on Sep 3, 2010 6:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

I agree totally with you

But I don’t like the excuse about “if this hadn’t happened then…” because you can do that with just about any mistake.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Sep 3, 2010 7:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

lost me on this set of interactions..

I’ll re-read it, but I think you and John are not communicating about the same point.

by idahobronc on Sep 3, 2010 8:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's been known to happen with me

I just don’t like the saying "if this hadn’t happened then…" as a way to validate that it had potential to be a good play.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Sep 3, 2010 8:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

The question, imho

Was whether it was a good read by TT or not. So do you have an opinion, md, or are you just here to stir us up?

Tip: Orton memorabilia soon to increase in value, buy now!

by azdenfan on Sep 4, 2010 6:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

I think it was a good read

I have no problem with the read, and I think Tebow played very, very well in the game, but I don’t want to hear it would have won us the game or been an instant touchdown, cause there were a number of plays, “if the defense hadn’t done this”, or “the player hadn’t dropped the ball”, then good things would have happened as well. I’m not a big fan of stirring things up, I just don’t like it when people tend to just laugh off others when they make a point just because it may judge their favorite player in a light they don’t like.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Sep 4, 2010 8:59 AM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks

I too thought it was a good read, just a poor toss. Mr Riley seems to think otherwise, which is his right as well. I like John’s analogy to physical vs mental mistakes.

Tip: Orton memorabilia soon to increase in value, buy now!

by azdenfan on Sep 4, 2010 4:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think the safe play if Orton goes down is to replace him with Quinn for the remainder of that game

The decision of who starts while KO is out will be based off of how BQ performs in the game Orton gets injured in.

It would be easier to give BQ a shot and then bring TT in if Quinn doesn’t get the job done then to throw TT to the wolves right off the bat and then try to replace him with BQ if Tebow struggles.

If Orton goes down I think BQ gets the immediate replacement. This will be his true audition for the #2 job. If he fails it’s Tebow Time!

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by c_style on Sep 3, 2010 4:32 PM MDT reply actions  

My thoughts are that it's hard to draw absolute conclusions

from the last pre-season game with 2nd, 3rd and 4th stringers on both teams, often miss-firing on their assignments. The offensive line play was like a “Chinese Fire Drill” at times. However, I think that the QB who thinks big, isn’t afraid to go long, or risk a mistake is a powerful weapon. Tebow is going to stretch the field and make defenses wary. And, he’ll make them pay with timely runs here and there.

What has surprised me most is the accuracy of most of his throws, and the stength of his arm. Not, that I should be surprised, he did throw 88TD’s against 16 Int’s in college, against the best competition, every week, every season for four years.

He has that “no fear of failure” quality.—high risk, high reward. Yeah, he’ll screw up (probably quite a bit at first), but you can almost see him learning and adjusting before our eyes (ie.10 straight completions after a clumsy, disasterous start.). He’s thinking TD’s first , not just first downs all the time, everytime. And, McD knows this too. He’s going to get him as many reps as he can, as often as he can. 3rd string is not an option. This kid is the (near) future,

Orton is the now, and really, the Broncos seem to be in good shape at the QB position, as long as he stay’s healthy. But, I think the only thing that keeps him ahead of Tebow is his understanding of the offense and experience. He offers steady reliable game management skill with little big play potential. More sooner than later Tebow will supplant him.

Finally, Quinn, might develop into a competent game manager if he’s given a serious opportunity, but I don’t think he’ll ever be more than a so/so backup, with an unremarkable career. He offers short term insurance at best, in the event of injury to both Orton and Tebow.

by irishbronco on Sep 3, 2010 5:42 PM MDT reply actions  

Guys..

Don’t turn this into a ‘choose sides’ scenario. To like Tebow does not mean you don’t like Quinn or vice-versa. I like both. I talked to Brady at camp. He’s been nothing but gracious, in Denver and when he was here with the Browns. The guy looks like a QB, he sounds like one. Someday, he may become one.

Feel free to disagree with my reasoning. Please do. I just try to make you think. That’s all. These are my opinions. It is an obvious statement that we have no idea what Tebow would do against a #1 defense. Based on the small body of work, however, it appears that one thing he won’t do is let a mistake or two affect him. It seems to make him better.

IN all honesty, I hope we don’t find out in 2010. I think KO will have a career year if he plays at 100% all 16 games. That will mean the Broncos will be right there come playoff time. That, my friends, is something we can ALL agree on!

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

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by John Bena on Sep 3, 2010 5:47 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

And this over the backup QB!!! I love football fans. We are only bags of pee and batteries away from the futbol crowd.

Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan

by Orange and Blue on Sep 3, 2010 9:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

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