Five Inconspicuous Reasons the Broncos Have a Bright Future
by broncospriestess on Sep 5, 2010 3:52 PM MDT
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PrintIt's natural at this time of year to dig into the details of how the draft worked out, how our 49th best man compares to the league average, or to debate what the Alphonso Smith and/or Tim Tebow cases mean for the future of the Denver Broncos. Although I learned a lot about football from my Mom, whose favorite player of all time is Eddie Mac, I haven't yet learned enough to address these topics. But I did learn enough to notice something that no one seems to be talking about, five inconspicuous reasons the Broncos have a bright future:
1. Ryan Clady
2. Zane Beadles
3. J. D. Walton
4. Chris Kuper
5. Ryan Harris
I suppose no one talks about them much because, due to injury, they practically haven't even lined up next to each other. But, unless I am greatly mistaken, this is a talented, young offensive line, a playoff-caliber line. They have a real shot at playing together for the next eight or ten years and starting together in a number of playoff games.
I can't name an offensive lineman for another team (and only one defensive lineman: Albert Haynesworth), so I certainly couldn't claim to be especially objective or knowledgeable in this field. But I would guess that our line would probably rank in the top 10 in the league right now. More to my main point is that, based on youth and potential, any general manager in the league would be willing to trade his offensive line starters, right now, straight up, for our guys. If I am wrong, I am sure one of you gentlemen can point that out.
So I see a team that, down the road, will be able to pass and run, due mostly to stonewall protection and run blocking with an attitude. Of course some mistakes have been made in putting this team together, and more will be made in the future. But we have the building blocks of a potentially great young line. This is not something that Coach McDaniels can take complete credit for; neither can Coach Shanahan. But the big picture is that we have a lot of reasons to be optimistic, in particular five big reasons.
That doesn't mean we will beat Jacksonville--being ready for Sunday is a different post. What about you--do you think the Broncos have a bright future? Why or why not?
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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currently our run blocking is a bit of a work in prgress, but we definitely have one of the top passing O-lines IMO
Long term, barring health missteps, this will be foundation of our team.
Always remember Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.
-- Shug Jordan
I agree
"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi
by broncospriestess on Sep 5, 2010 8:18 PM MDT up reply actions
I do think the Broncos have a bright future
I think McD develops quarterbacks, and we will see a new and improved Kyle Orton the next few years.
I probably would have posted your excellent thoughts under “Five Big Reasons the Broncos have a Bright Future,” but maybe that’s because I can’t spell incunspicous!
Rec’d.
Adelante, Broncos!
by Chapulin Colorado on Sep 5, 2010 4:36 PM MDT reply actions
We have not seen the 2010 line yet
Due to injuries, a general rebuilding and total change in offensive line scheme we, as fans, have yet to see what our 2010 and beyond line will look like. We can surmise they will be good at pass blocking, but how will they fare at the run block and in screen situations.
My guess based on the Vikings game is that McD is one or two players short of being VERY comfortable with the entire squad. I also see this as being his current high priority.
Since the UNIT missed the entire preseason I would expect a slow start. Simple runs and lots of pass protection. They will mature together and finish strong in December.
We have a playoff quality QB, two very exciting running backs each capible of turning a game, and a crop of wide recievers many teams would kill for. Since we have not yet seen this O line as a unit, it would not be unreasonable to assume McD has built them to the same standard.
by Flunkie on Sep 5, 2010 4:59 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
You nailed it!
Since the UNIT missed the entire preseason I would expect a slow start. Simple runs and lots of pass protection. They will mature together and finish strong in December
I'd rather watch a TEAM play than a few stars.
by HighPlainsBronc on Sep 8, 2010 7:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Our
line will be the foundation of future success. We’ll be just fine and make the most out of our opportunities. Nice read, illustrious priestess!
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Sep 5, 2010 6:47 PM MDT reply actions
Thank you
I think a lot of times we just forget the simple fact that if you can control the offensive line of scrimmage you can take the initiative in a football game.
"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi
by broncospriestess on Sep 5, 2010 8:23 PM MDT up reply actions
Nice point!
my favorite type of talk
CentSports free 10 cents to bet with Better than Fantasy Football, pick'em!!
I think
the longer they get to play together, the better they will become.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
by KaptainKirk on Sep 5, 2010 7:23 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I think...
That you are right!
"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi
by broncospriestess on Sep 5, 2010 8:26 PM MDT up reply actions
ME TOO!
I think our team is a growing team. It has to play together for a while to become good.
Me thinks this is McD’s plan! If so, I like it.
I'd rather watch a TEAM play than a few stars.
by HighPlainsBronc on Sep 8, 2010 7:19 PM MDT up reply actions
I think
the opening day O-line shakes out like this for GAME 1:
1. Ryan Clady
2. Stanley Daniels / Zane Beadles
3. J. D. Walton
4. Chris Kuper
5. Zane Beadles / Ryan Harris (because of Injury)
the LG position appears to be unsettled, still!!!
The LG battle is worth watching early in the season.
Kuper also needs to play much better. He was not good in 2009, but we was flanked by two chumps in Weigmann and Polumbus.
I’d like think we have good guards in Kuper and Beadles, but that needs to prove out on the field.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
I wish
the coaching staff would go ahead and pronounce a starting O-line. Cohesiveness is my biggest concern. However, I think that Beadles will make a serviceable LG in the long-run, much like Kuper.
"based on youth and potential, any general manager in the league would be willing to trade his offensive line starters, right now, straight up, for our guys"
This is good. I’m not sure that EVERY GM would, but I sure don’t think there’s a line out there that we would trade for. Good read, and good reasons to be optimistic. I love that McD seems to have a long term plan. Every move he makes doesn’t always pan out, but he’s not mortgaging anything for one player. We have built youth and depth into most all positions (especially OL).
Perhaps it’s because this is the closest I’ve followed a TC and preseason, but I can’t remember having such depth in a long time. Once our skill players get some experience under their belts, this is going to be a monster team..
I can't really comment on our depth...
But some of the guys who write a lot here think it is good in some areas, not so good in others.
I would think that our season depends a lot on how healthy the team is. That is probably true of most, if not all, teams in the NFL. If our offensive line (and quarterback) can stay healthy and establish some continuity, I think we’ll be fine with an average number of injuries at other positions.
"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi
by broncospriestess on Sep 5, 2010 8:33 PM MDT up reply actions
First a comment on the meat of your post
The line looks to be a great group of guys, but they won’t really start clicking for another year or two. The pass blocking looks very solid, but the run-blocking has frankly been poor so far this year (I’ve been watching it closely…very few good holes were opened up by them). My hope is that we are holding something back in the preseason, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see our running game struggle this year due to the line play.
"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV
A question for you...
How much of the run blocking issue is due to the guys up front simply needing to get stronger, how much is due to a need for improved technique, and how much is due to a lack of coordination and teamwork between the linemen?
I’ve assumed for the purpose of this post that if the blockers were light on their feet and able to pass block, that the run blocking would come with training, coaching, and time to gel. It sounds good to me, but I’m willing to admit I don’t know everything about football. Don’t tell my son I said that, though!
"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi
by broncospriestess on Sep 5, 2010 9:46 PM MDT up reply actions
LOL...your secret is safe with us!
Great questions. I commend you on asking them.
For the two rookies, the answer is “Yes” (or all of the above). The one facet they may be okay on is strength because that would typically be the easiest thing to come by. I do know that NFL level trainers are a step above college, so there may be room there for improvement. I’m sure there is much for them to learn for technique and it becomes very important in run blocking. Position and leverage is everything because typically they are going against equal or greater athletes.
I’d say overall offensive line run blocking performance is 40% Individual ability, 20% mental preparedness, and 40% team-work / execution. You can slice the pie different ways and we can bicker about how stud linemen can blow this breakdown out of the water, but that’s my opinion on the matter.
I think the big thing we need for this group of guys on our team is playing time. They need to be out there in the trenches together to get experience in this system. The rookie presence sure as heck affects the balance of the line greatly. Those two kids look good, but there is only so much you can do until you are thrown to the wolves to be chewed on and spit out. (This is part of the reason that McDaniels has played them so much…trying to speed up their learning curve)
"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV
This looks like a great topic for a detailed post!
"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi
by broncospriestess on Sep 6, 2010 11:23 AM MDT up reply actions
A Couple things to keep in mind.
I would say that with few exceptions there is a big difference in the strength from rookies to vets. This is not due to better strength coach’s of the NFL. A 21 yr olds body is not normally nearly as developed as a 26 yr old. Now, there are always exceptions to this. But for the most part look at power lifters, and usually the strongest guys are in their early 30’s. The problem is at this age most players start to lose quick twitch muscle fibers, leaving the person much slower then they were in the 20’s. I would guess that optimal performance is around 23-29 range.
Another aspect of what determines the success of the running game is the QB. I know that sounds counterintuitive but at the time of scrimmage he must read the defense and probably audible. See Peyton Manning on this. If the QB can see a run blitz he can often audible to the proper play.
I also believe that pass blocking takes more continuity then run blocking. Pass blocking you need to see where the blitz is coming and the linemen will work together to slide left or right or have the rb chip right or left. While run blocking you can see success much faster with a newly assembled line. Line up and play some smash mouth football. Now a lot of technique to be able to move those 300 pound bodies out of the way. Rookies usually lack this aspect of their game.
Now about the Bronco's future
Yeah, the future is looking very VERY bright from where I sit.
I see this season McDaniels starting to really put together the team he wants and this draft has been the first one where his scouting procedures have really had a solid chance. He’s showing us he can see talent shrewdly and he’s building us up through our youth while addressing our needs that aren’t in the draft through free agency.
I love to see that he is okay with making mistakes and he doesn’t try to hide them. He got a measure of respect from me for trading Phonz away…I honestly didn’t know if he would or not.
I think offensively you are going to see the Broncos enter into the top 10 of the NFL offenses over the next 2 seasons. Orton is starting to click with the offense and it looks quite potent. I think the talent we have at WR is going to be a big big plus for us in the next few years.
"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV
by sadaraine on Sep 5, 2010 9:13 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Funny how futures look bright when they're young
I haven’t don’t a statistical analysis, and I don’t want to be seen as a Shanny basher, but I think the Xanders/McDanials combination is going to develop into extraordinary talent evaluators. I always thought it was normal that about half the draft class didn’t make the team under Shanny. Again, let me say i haven’t done a statistical analysis, I’m just going off impressions of a guy who occasionally read the Denver Post.
Last year, we kept about half the class after 1 year, which again I thought was par for the course. I remember that Shanny had an occasional draft class that was outstanding, but most were just so-so. That’s why I’m hoping that this year’s class isn’t just a blip on the screen. I’m hoping we can have several drafts like this in a row. If we do, Denver will become a the team of the decade!
Sure mistakes were made last year, but for any group of people doing something for the first time, even a group of experts, mistakes get made. If this is a sign of FO’s growth, we’re going to have a lot of fun in our future.
Each year the so-called experts publish their fantasy drafts with much fanfare. Then they go on and on during the season about which real players are talented and which are busts. What they never do is have an end of the season accounting where they tell you how badly their fantasy teams sucked! They’re great game players, but not very astute when it comes to being successful game players. That’s why I blow off all the criticism about how the Broncos are building their team. Personally, I’m excited by in and I think the O-Line is definitely going to be a strong part of it.
I’ve given you a big Rec’d, Priestess, as your post is true, fun, humble, and well-argued. And thanks for pointing out how the O-Line is a combination of both Shanny and McD’s work. A lot of fans forget that the Bronco’s are a legacy, not momentary flash in the pan.
First they ignore you.
They then laugh at you.
Then they fight you.
Then, you win.
--Gandhi
by Santa Fe Bronc on Sep 5, 2010 10:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Not sure about Xander
I think it is premature to say that McD/Xander are better talent evaluators then shanahan. Let’s not forget about our 2006 draft. It played out much like a fantasy football draft.
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt
2 61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan
4 119 Brandon Marshall WR Central Florida
4 126 Elvis Dumervil DE Louisville
4 130 Domenik Hixon WR Akron
5 161 Chris Kuper G North Dakota
6 198 Greg Eslinger C Minnesota
Everyone except the Greg eslinger is an above average starter in the NFL. I would venture to say that this might go down as one of the best top to bottom drafts by any team of any time. I could be biased for our broncos but whatever. Cutler while in Denver, was a pro bowl QB. Scheff is a good TE that we are still struggling to replace. Marshall has had 3 consecutive 100 catch seasons. Set the all-time catch in a single game record and has been a constant pro bowler. Doom – 2009 sack leader and pro bowler. Hixon – played very well for the Giants. Kuper – The Broncos gave him a 1st rounder tender, which shows just how much this team likes this guy.
Also, I believe that it is difficult to compare the 2010 draft to any other draft. This draft included more talent from top to bottom then any draft in recent history. Oh course, this was due to the impending rookie cap which the owners will be sure to include in the new collective bargaining agreement.
I think Xander has made some rookie mistakes with the handling of a number of situations but I am still optimistic that he will not repeat those mistakes and could become a great GM.
Of course...
You’re picking the best draft of Shanahan’s 15 seasons and it’s about more than just the draft, it’s also who gets picked up in free agency.
The Broncos had a number of starters on defense in 2008 that couldn’t even get backup jobs in the NFL after they were cut by McX. The situation was worse with our team’s second stringers…a huge drop off in quality.
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..."
Establishing a Fortress.
Great thoughts m’lady. And even completely oblivious to the other O-lines in the league you made some pretty accurate statements in this thing. I was just talking with my friend for a long while about the stability these young guys can bring to our offense. Regardless of who comes and gos in the skill positions, these guys will make any Broncos offense a ton better. Our QB’s will have plenty of time to make reads and throw the right balls, while our RB’s finally won’t be starting every run getting contact in the backfield.
With our WR depth so strong, and the QB position locked up for the near (and possibliy long term) future, we can really focus on finding the right RB to fit this team. Knowshon has tremendous upside, but beyond him we’ve got aging vet’s and very raw UDFA’s. But all in all our offense should be pretty solid for years to come if these guys can stay healthy and mesh together well.
Now if we can just get our Dline situation figured out then we’ll be set.
"It is better to be rougly right than precisely wrong." - John Maynard Keynes
That's a big if-
But I like to dream of the possibilities of a team built around young, talented lines that can dominate both sides of the line of scrimmage.
Football is a game played with arms, legs and shoulders but mostly from the neck up. - Knute Rockne
We have 2 rookies that have a chance to start and play Zane Beadles and J D Walton.
The odds of success are strained by that fact and shouldn’t be in a situation to succeed. But, I think they will be OK even now at the beginning after watching them play 4 preseason games. It’s kind of scary to think with a season together under their belts what they will be like…The future is bright.
I’d call Ryan Clady, Walton and Ryan Harris very conspicuous reasons why our future could be bright. Clady has been recognized as Denver’s cornerstone player since early/mid 2008. He doesn’t even have a trade value since trading a young franchise LT is unthinkable.
I want to see Kuper blow up a below average D-line in Jacksonville on Sunday. The Jags are a good 1st team for Denver to play because their D-line is young and not very good.
Denver: 32-32 until we're not.
You might be right...
That Clady, Walton, and Harris are very conspicuous. I’m sure I would think so if I met one of them at the supermarket! I called the linemen inconspicuous because no one seems to be talking about them, and it seems to me that our offensive line could be set for a number of years, and that would be a very good thing.
I also would love to see our guys blow up the Jacksonville defense on Sunday!
"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi
by broncospriestess on Sep 6, 2010 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions
these guys are truly the Continental Divide!
fader nation is a conquered nation
Jerry Jones is Al Davis with a smile!
CHICAGO...Where Quaterbacks' careers go to die!
by mdierk on Sep 6, 2010 9:37 AM MDT reply actions 3 recs
I think you got something here!!! :)
"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting--died!" - George W. Cecil
by Bronco Billy on Sep 6, 2010 11:54 AM MDT up reply actions
Let 'em play
I have a lot of hope for the team’s oline, but I’m not going to say they’re great until we see something on the field. Pre-season has looked like a work in progress… while obviously that can improve with health and experience, there is no guaruntee that improvement actually happens. I’m a touch worried about our depth… Harris’ injury killed us last year, and I’m unconvinced the backup guys we have this year are any better, even if Walton/Beadles are an improvement over Hamilton/Weigman (TBD).
Health and depth is always the killer for an O-line. The NYG had a healthy oline for 2 years, was the best in football, and they ran behind them all the way to a superbowl win. Last year, and continuing into this year, they’ve been dinged up and have looked out of whack and mediocre at best.
That said, I agree that the oline starters are young and have a lot of promise. Baltimore is probably the only team I can think of with the same combination of youth and potential across the board…
Our pass blocking should be very good. I’m shocked no one mentioned how we are shifting our run blocking to incorporate the power running game.
Priestess: here’s an article addressing the two run blocking schemes:
http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/1/22/1264942/the-power-and-zone-blocking
Barring the unforeseeable, Clady has HOF written all over him. Walton looks good so far, and Kuper and Harris are solid. Kuper should be worthy of a Pro-Bowl. Bottom line, we don’t have any George Foster’s on our line anymore. Personally, I like Stanley Daniels in run blocking and how well he pulls. I don’t understand how Batiste is the higher G on the depth chart. You’ll see this on Lendale White’s TD run vs. Pittsburgh if you review the tape.
Looking way too far into the future, my one question for this line (hypothetically): when Tebow becomes the starter someday (a southpaw), does Clady move to RT? or keep Harris there?
Overall, I’m not so worried about our run blocking this year as the NFL has turned into a passing league. We use short passes and bubble screens as running plays now. Sports Illustrated did a good article this week on “Winning the three seconds” which is definitely worth reading.
Living in Chicago and watching the Bears almost as much as the Broncos, if you want to show your son a bad O-Line, watch Cutler run for his life all season. Plus, I’ve never seen Orton look better in my life. He finally seems to understand stepping up into the pocket to buy those few precious seconds to find the open receiver instead of just throwing the ball away. Orton’s new found ability to shuffle in the pocket will make this O-line look better than last year.
"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting--died!" - George W. Cecil
No, clady won't move
blindside is the most overrated concern in football jargon.
The reason the LT is typically required to be better than the RT in passblocking is not because he’s covering the “blindside”, its because he typically doesn’t have a TE lined up next to him to help with a chip on the edge rusher. Because the strongside is typically the rightside, the LT is more often left on an island to go one-on-one with the edge rusher. Also, teams typically run right, so the RT is often a better run-blocker compared to passblocker for that reason. That doesn’t change with the handedness of the QB.
The weakside “island” difference has diminshed in the past decade with the greater prevalence of 2 TE sets, etc. With Clady probably not 100%, my guess is we’ll see a lot of strong-left formations (though if Harris is really hurt, we may have problems).
The blindside is also less an issue with greater use of the shotgun, as once the QB is back that far basically everything is in front of him… the blindside kind of becomes irrelevant.
I agree that Clady probably won’t move. It was just a question I always wondered. You do bring up good points on the RT / LT’s responsiblities re: the strong side of the offense.
"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting--died!" - George W. Cecil
by Bronco Billy on Sep 9, 2010 11:24 PM MDT up reply actions
In fairness
Orton has always been good at moving in the pocket. Not as good as this year, but the last two years I think his ankle injuries had quite a bit to do with his extra immobility. Your main point is right on, though. Kyle just seems to have picked up that extra “it” this season…
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"if you look close, there’s a hoodie lurking in the background of picture 4. similar to the classic sasquatch shot and equally stunning, as the denver temperature today is relatively fair."
-oxmouth
I can’t put my finger on “it”. Even when he was with the Bears and went 10-5 in their playoff run, he only threw for over 200 yards once. It was never necessary for him to win the game when the defense was only giving up 6-14 ppg.
He is just seems to be playing with a confidence he hasn’t had before. Maybe he finally feels more comfortable running in this offense because he played well in college in the spread where the Bears were always run first and pass when you’re behind in the chains (the Dan Reeves approach). I can’t wait to see him in Jacksonville to see if he continues.
"On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait, and waiting--died!" - George W. Cecil
by Bronco Billy on Sep 9, 2010 11:31 PM MDT up reply actions
IMHO, we're still two years away from....
Having a completely dominating offensive unit. Rookies seldom come out of the gates on an all-pro level, but with a couple of years playing together this group will awesome. I share your optimism, but due to injuries and inexperience, I give ‘em two years and we’ll be unstoppable. Good read priestess!
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime.
"Losing stinks" - Josh McDaniels
Thank you
I am optimistic in the long run, but agree that there are reasons to be concerned the first part of this year. The next few weeks will be interesting. I wish Sunday would get here!
"People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society." - Vince Lombardi
by broncospriestess on Sep 7, 2010 9:43 PM MDT up reply actions
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