Denver Broncos Mock Draft Part Five: Kyle Orton on the Outs in Denver
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 18, 2011 4:00 PM MST
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It's time for part five in my mock draft series. For this one though, I am only going to project one trade, and it is the trade that I feel is almost certain to happen barring a surprising development.
Should the CBA situation get resolved, I believe very firmly that Kyle Orton will be on his way out of Denver, and I think there are no fewer than 10 teams who would love to have him as their starting quarterback. The Denver Broncos are not one of them. Yes, Tim Tebow is raw, and it would be nice to have a fall-back plan, but the Broncos have to move on.
I think this is also a team that spent too many draft picks on washed up veteran players, and it has cost them, specifically for this draft because they only have six picks as it stands right now. Trading Orton could recover a couple of those picks, and I think the Broncos will stick to their 2nd round value, but that does not mean they will require a 2nd round choice in return.
**Broncos trade quarterback Kyle Orton to Arizona for 3rd round pick (69th overall), 4th round pick, and future conditional pick (up to a 3rd)**
A trade like this is entirely acceptable to me, because it gives the Broncos some much needed ammunition for this season as well as next year.
1. First Round, 2nd overall: Patrick Peterson, Cornerback/Safety, LSU
6'1" 222
from the Orlando Sentinel
Sayre's Scouting Report/Pick Analysis
Simply put, there is not a more NFL ready prospect in this year's draft, and there might not be a player with more upside than Patrick Peterson. This is a guy who has outstanding size, speed, length, quickness, and instincts. His ball skills are unmatched in this year's draft, and he is also one of the nation's best punt returners, if not THE very best. Peterson stepped in at LSU as a true freshman, and has been great from the very start.
Peterson has been so great, in fact, that at the ripe old age of 20, the only things scouts say he needs to improve upon at this point is reading the play pre-snap and proving he can be dominant throughout the course of a full season. Of course, there are other things Peterson can get better at, and if Jim Mora Jr. is hired as defensive coordinator as expected, he will have one of the better defensive back tutors in the league.
One scout described Peterson with this one sentence: Patrick Peterson is a rare lockdown corner who loves contact.
Yikes. If Peterson can bring that to the NFL, it looks like the Broncos will be getting a great one.
Alternative Picks
- Nick Fairley, DL, Auburn
- Da'Quan Bowers, DE, Clemson
2. Second Round, 36th overall: Corey Liuget, Defensive Tackle, Illinois
6'3" 300
from OverOll.com
Sayre's Scouting Report/Pick Analysis
Why pass on Da'Quan Bowers or Nick Fairley with the second overall pick? Well, here you have it. Corey Liuget is a great fit for what the Broncos might be looking to do defensively, and he really had a breakout junior season for the Illini. He showed the ability to be an anchor for the defensive line, but where he really makes his mark is as a gap penetrator. Liuget has a nasty initial punch off the snap, and he uses his elite quickness and strength to make plays in the backfield.
This is one of the better tacklers among defensive linemen in the draft, and the Broncos would probably love to keep him in orange and blue. He has great potential as a rookie because the Broncos don't have to make him a starter from day one, but he can be a rotational guy and simply get acclimated to the league learning behind a guy like Justin Bannan.
Eventually, the plan will be for Liuget to be a full time starter, and he certainly has that potential. He's a high energy player who will make a living torturing quarterbacks and running backs. He is great at taking on a double team, and will really make the guys playing linebacker behind him better.
3. Second Round, 46th overall (from Miami): Allen Bailey, Defensive End, Miami
6'4" 287
from NEPatriots Draft
Sayre's Scouting Report/Pick Analysis
If you thought I was done rebuilding the defensive line, think again. Allen Bailey was once considered a top ten prospect, but has since fallen way off the radar due to the depth of this draft class and somewhat inconsistent play in his senior season. Bailey started his career at Miami as a linebacker, and if you Google his name, just look at the first picture to see how he has transformed himself into the massive 285 pounder he is today.
Obviously, this is a guy who as worked hard in the weight room, and he is an incredible athlete. There are certainly questions about his speed, likely a reason he moved to the defensive line when he came into college. He has proven, though, to be a very good bull rusher and he gives relentless effort on a play-by-play basis.
The problem with Bailey, and the reason he won't be a top ten pick, is his closing speed. Can he get to the quarterback in time? This is a question I have with our own Robert Ayers, but under the tutelage of Wayne Nunnely and with the help of some other new talent along the defensive line, I think he can be even more effective.
The Broncos would likely use Bailey as an end on certain running plays, and they could slide him in as a tackle on passing downs. He's got great size and quickness off the snap, so he should be an asset and would be a fine second round selection.
4. Third Round, 67th overall: Marvin Austin, Defensive Tackle, North Carolina
6'3" 310
from Patriots Daily
Sayre's Scouting Report/Pick Analysis
It should be no surprise this week as you hear all about how North Carolina defensive tackle Marvin Austin is dominating the East-West Shrine Game practices, and I wouldn't be shocked if he is the best overall player to come out of the game regardless of position.
Austin had three huge seasons for the Tar Heels before controversy seemingly surrounded the entire team prior to the 2010 campaign. If you need any indication as to how good this guy really is, here's a scouting report from Mocking the Draft:
In scouting defensive tackles lately, we have been blessed to see the likes of Glenn Dorsey, Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoyand Sedrick Ellis. In 2009 we proclaimed Ndamukong Suh the best defensive player we had ever scouting- and we are sticking to this. However, Marvin Austin is the most athletic defensive tackle we have seen to date. His ability to chase down the ball carrier and his freakish speed make him among the most dangerous defensive players in college football. He has the full arsenal of strength, size, speed and awareness that NFL General Managers are looking for in today’s defensive tackle.
While Austin may not be the pure player Suh is, he is a deadly combination of Suh’s ability to collapse the pocket and Gerald McCoy’s speed and athleticism.
So then why has Austin fallen so far off the map? Well, the reason is pretty obvious--he's battling some character problems, and was dismissed from North Carolina's football program. He did not finish his senior season, and has fallen way out of favor, to the point that he's considered a third round pick at this point.
I wouldn't be shocked to see Austin go earlier than this to a team willing to take an even bigger risk on him, but if I'm the Broncos I wait it out and take him with a lower pick. Our first pick in the third round is the perfect spot to pull the trigger.
5. Third Round, 69th overall (From Arizona): Ras-I Dowling, Cornerback, Virginia
6'2" 200
from Bleacher Report
Sayre's Scouting Report/Pick Analysis
It's sad when a prospect decides to return to school to hone his craft and he gets it taken away almost completely. Dowling, like Austin, was considered to be one of the top ten or fifteen prospects heading into the 2010 season, but Dowling's year was derailed by a season-ending injury.
When healthy, this is a guy who can be a shut-down corner, and one who reminds me a lot of Nnamdi Asomugha in terms of his size and coverage ability. Based on that fact alone, there's a chance some team could take a flyer on him before this, but as we saw with Eric Decker, that doesn't always happen.
If the Broncos have the opportunity to grab Dowling with this pick, it almost has to happen. He has shut-down ability, and could probably play safety down the road if the Broncos needed. I think a cornerback group of Champ Bailey, Andre' Goodman, Patrick Peterson, Perrish Cox, Ras-I Dowling, and Syd'Quan Thompson sounds like a
6. Fourth Round (from Arizona): Kelvin Sheppard, Linebacker, LSU
6'2" 240
from ESPN.com
Sayre's Scouting Report/Pick Analysis
Sheppard is a talented kid who will likely perform higher than his draft status come April. Right now, he's right in the third or fourth round range, but I'm leaning more towards the fourth for him at the moment. He is a fiery leader of one of the SEC's best defenses. The Broncos have really lacked a personality like Sheppard's since Al Wilson left, and that's not to say that he is going to come in and provide what Wilson did, but he has that same intensity.
At 6'2" and around 240 pounds, I am thinking Sheppard can play either inside or outside for us. With the impending move to a 4-3, it appears as though our starting linebackers next year would be Mario Haggan, D.J. Williams, and Joe Mays. I would love to see Wesley Woodyard get some more time as well, but that is a spot the Broncos are going to need to address in free agency and the draft, if for no other reason than because they need depth.
Sheppard can provide that depth, and he appears to have a good head on his shoulders. This is a good spot to take a flyer on him. He's been a starter for three years for LSU, and that usually means something.
7. Sixth Round (from Detroit): Josh Bynes, Linebacker, Auburn
6'2" 235
from Operation Sports
Sayre's Scouting Report/Pick Analysis
Bynes is another high energy player, much like his SEC counterpart Sheppard from the previous pick. Despite playing in one of the toughest, fastest, and most physical conferences in the country, Bynes has started more than 20 straight games dating back to the 2008 campaign, including Auburn's impressive National Championship victory over previously unbeaten Oregon.
His experience against top level competition and his intensity are attractive to me, and at this point in the draft, he provides solid depth at the linebacker positions, and he can go out on special teams and knock somebody out.
8. Sixth Round (from New England): Weslye Saunders, Tight End, South Carolina
6'5" 275
from Go Upstate
Sayre's Scouting Report/Pick Analysis
I am very on the fence about this pick. Part of me thinks we should take a different player here and wait to see if Saunders hits the open market as a free agent, but to me, his situation is similar to that of LeGarrette Blount from last year. Sure, Blount punched a guy, and got dismissed for it. Still, he's a good football player, and everyone deserves a second chance.
Saunders' offenses were not even in the same league of Blount, but the end result was the same. He did not play football this season, but likely has been preparing himself for the rigors of the NFL, because he has all of the physical tools to succeed at the next level.
At 6'5" and nearly 280 pounds, Saunders is like an additional offensive linemen, not unlike Daniel Graham. Unlike Graham also, Saunders is a pass catching machine, and can be a real weapon in the red zone. If the Broncos can get past his character flaws, they should take a risk on this guy late in the draft.
Breakdown by Conference
SEC--Four
ACC--Three
Big Ten--One
For this mock, I used the rankings at NFL Draft Scout, which are the rankings I use on a consistent basis. Until this point, however, they did not have underclassmen rankings updated in their system. Now that they do, I have a better guess of who could be going where.
As for the rest of the holes on this team, I think tight end and linebacker are going to be positions the Broncos look to in free agency for a stop-gap, or possibly a long term solution here or there. Same with the running back spot. I am not going to mock free agents, but there are some guys I definitely have in mind. Namely, I think the Broncos should strongly pursure Owen Daniels, the tight end from Houston. When healthy, he is one of the best pass-catching tight ends in the game, and the Texans have invested multiple high picks in tight ends over the last couple of years, so he might be expendable.
At running back, I would love nothing more than to see one of our former rivals in Darren Sproles or Michael Bush come to town and give us a much needed boost. With the emergence of Mike Tolbert and the drafting of Ryan Mathews, Sproles may look to greener pastures. Bush will lose carries to Darren McFadden, and the Raiders have a plethora of free agent players they need to re-up with.
Defensively, I would like to see John Fox bring some of his old crew to Denver with him. James Anderson is a guy who emerged in the absence of Thomas Davis at outside linebacker, and he could be of great value to the Broncos who need to revamp their linebacker corps. Chad Greenway is my top target on the free agent market, but I'm not sure the Vikings are going to let him be the one that gets away, even though they also have to re-sign Sidney Rice.
More likely, it seems Ray Edwards will be the one let go by Minnesota, and he is one of the better defensive ends that will be available on the open market. I would not be opposed to the Broncos looking into signing Edwards. Free agent defensive end Charles Johnson is also a former Panther that would look nice in orange and blue.
Stay tuned for part six!
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Yes Peterson
Boom…I hope he runs a 4.0 flat at the 40 so we HAVE to take him
When will the NCAA admit that it is a business with the sole purpose for making money off of student athletes?
Mark 16:15-18
Bolts 40 time would be around 4.2-4.3
but he is a slow starter!!!!!!! O_o
There are others that get off the line quicker.
I'm still not sold on Peterson as a #2 pick.
I’d rather get a dominant d-line prospect in the 1st round and get a CB in the 2nd round.
I'm warming up to Peterson...
…..espcially if we go to a 4-3. But I would still prefer DL to make the DB job easier. Also, if he will be that vaulable as a CB, then his return skills will not be used, IMO.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
I'm liking the idea of Peterson more everyday
One thing that was nice about this draft is that it wasn’t made up of all the people everybody mocks to us, so I learned some new things. I’d be perfectly fine with this happening.
"Mr. President, call in the National Guard! Send as many men as you can spare! Because we are killing the Patriots! They need emergency help!" - Shannon Sharpe
I too am coming on board with Peterson.
I was all about Fairley earlier, but Peterson’s athletic upside bodes well for a decade long run at excellence.
Someone
Will take Saunders way before the 6th round
Really like this draft though, Peterson is definitely the guy I want with the #2 pick
I usually like your mock's Sayre...
But I LOVE this one. I have been looking at these same guys, at least the ones you have through the first 4 rounds. This would improve our team instantly. Get this guy on board in the scouting DPT!
I like this
except I think we need to go LB early, especially since we dont have any true 4-3 LB’s outside of DJ
Mays comes from Philly, and they are 43D. Woody can play outside on a 43. I’m not so sure they can’t make Ayers into a decent OLB.
And for those that think a CB will improve a defense, need I remind you of how Champ’s presence hasn’t necessarily helped? Sure, he shuts down one side, but that doesn’t help the other side, NOR does it stop the other team from running it down our throat!
DL! ESPECIALLY if they’re going to the 43.
LB is ok for now, especially if they’re going to the 43.
SPEED is needed! Look how it helped the chefs/faid! SPEED KILLS!
I'll say it again
Woodyard is built like a prototypical 4-3 WLB, and looked much better there as a rookie than he has ever looked in a 30-front DEF. If we can convince DJ to stay in the middle (he prefers WLB too), that means 2 of 4-3 LB slots are potentially covered at least short-term. DJ was a below-average MLB the one year he played there, but he was learning the position and had zero help in front of him, so I’m hopeful he can at least be a stopgap there.
Haggan and Mays can hopefully cover the 2-down SLB slot, and Mays can maybe backup at MLB… probably need a few guys for depth, particularly at MLB. A better SLB with coverage skills wouldn’t hurt either. I don’t particularly like either Haggan or Mays in a 4-3, because they seem to play better vertically than horizantally, so I question whether they have the lateral speed to cover the width of the field in a 4-3 scheme… I have nightmares of J.Charles turning the corner while our slow SLBs struggle to get outside.
Getting a stud MLB in the 2nd or 3rd (or dropping back in the 1st, if we go that route) might be an option too, as we could force DJ over to SLB which he played as a rookie (though he’ll REALLY hate that).
/We should look to
the steal of the century at TE (Preston Dial) reminds a lot of a great Bronco and former Crimson Tide by the name Patrick Hape- could probably get him late as well.
Patrick Hape
You are calling him a “great Bronco” this is a “Stretch!”
"Stretch" would be kind at best
Patrick Hape is the funniest reference I have ever seen on MHR. Thank you my friend LTSx100
Swaying towards Peterson
If we at least franchise Champ, that means one year to learn from one of the best shutdown corners in the NFL. With a deep D-line draft, we can come up with some Gems in the second and third rounds. I think no matter what we have to draft Peterson, best prospect available.
I'm suprised you went away from your boy Martez
I would be happy with this mock. Do you envision PP as a safety or corner?
Don’t you think he would a big time reach as a cover 2 corner? I know he’s a great athlete, but cover 2 corners don’t need to be great athletes. His abilities at safety intrigue me more than corner for the cover 2 defense I’m assuming Fox will run.
In Tebow I trust
Why do you think Fox will run a cover2?
I assume by cover2 you mean a Tampa-2?… which has the MLB dropping deep and safeties covering deep., which frees up the CBs to more short zone and man-under, which reduces the need for speed, etc. at the position.
In general, the NFL is moving away from Tampa-2 DEFs (even the big adherents in Chicago, Indy and Tampa Bay are blitzing more, etc.), and I also don’t think we have the D-line horses to generate enough passrush to run a pure Tampa-2 effectively.
As such, I’m guessing Fox will play much more of a traditional 4-3, with more LB blitzing, etc. than a Tampa-2 scheme. As such, the days of unathletic and slow, but good trackling, CBs like K. Hayden, etc. excelling in such schemes are probably going the way of the Dodo.
Good stuff Sayre.
I am on record as saying I love Peterson and that they can get some good lineman in subsequent rounds (though the reverse is true in a way, they can draft a DL with 1st pick and the draft is deep on CBs so they could get a solid one later).
I do wonder about them taking 2 CBs though. I wouldn’t mind a safety…
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
OT: But McD is going to St Louis after all
RT @mortreport: Filed by myself and @AdamSchefter to ESPN: McDaniels to Rams as offensive coordinator is now a done deal.
He’ll help Bradford continue to grow imho, could be a good fit.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Bowlen will regret
Bowlen and the Bronco nation will regret their overreaction to McDaniel’s errors in years to come. He will come back to haunt us.
his last draft
We have 2 OL, 1 QB and 2DB starters this year and next year with Thomas and Decker that will be 7 starters in one draft, if Shanahan would have ever drafted like that we wouldn’t be in this situation. Instead he tried to recycle failed Browns draft choices! However, the best trades the Bronco’s ever made were Schlereth and Zimmerman!
I dont believe so either
The fact that McD took an OC job further proved the point that he wasnt ready for the next level. He will be great with time maybe, but theres a lot of coaches out there who are better suited for a coordinator job
The error was McDaniels
Plain & simple
"You cocky cock! You'll pay for your crimes against humanity!"
"He's like a man with a fork in a world of soup."
It's not Broncos 'nation'
It’s Broncos Country. And even if McD does become the second coming of Belichick, he was not getting the job done here. We were trending severely downward. It’s a learning experience for him. If he does turn it around elsewhere a few years down the line, it will be largely because of this experience.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"And I mean that in the most professional way possible."
- Brandon Lloyd
Rec'd for the simple fact that you purged Laurence Maroney's ugly mug from being the first thing I see when I open up MHR...
Now I’ll go and read the post…
Half-man, half-bear, and half-pig. I like giving my two cents, but no one ever takes me cereal.
by manbearpig5000000 on Jan 18, 2011 4:31 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
thanks duder, me too! haha
Half-man, half-bear, and half-pig. I like giving my two cents, but no one ever takes me cereal.
by manbearpig5000000 on Jan 18, 2011 5:29 PM MST up reply actions
i love this mock
Thanks sayre
maxwellsdemon if your reading this i won the bet!!
by Pmoreno95 on Jan 18, 2011 4:32 PM MST via mobile reply actions
I like the gameplan
By the time the draft rolls around, it’ll be up to Mock Draft: Part 30. You’ll have to hit on some of the picks by then.
In all seriousness, Peterson looks like a once-a-decade talent. I think he should be the target even if Champ is retained, but especially if Champ isn’t.
How can anyone
want to trade Kyle Orton and keep Brady quinn as our backup? It doesn’t make any sense to me at all.
Keep the good QB. What if TT get hurt? What if he ( god forbid) he struggles as a starting QB.
Do you really want Quinn to be your starter?
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
43 McSpeed200 . xxxx 147 79.2
I think the thought is Orton only has one year left so get some value for him now.
Let's put the 'D' back in Denver
Plain
His value is in his talent and ability to lead the team if we need him. I think there is a good chance we may need him.
What value will he have when we need a solid QB and he is playing somewhere else. Brady Quinn has not shown us any ability. I could be wrong, I don’t mean any disrespect to Brady in particulalar. Really. why give up a known strength?
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
43 McSpeed200 . xxxx 147 79.2
And you may be right, but my though is
Because the team is in a massive rebuild and he will be gone in a year.
Let's put the 'D' back in Denver
Because Orton is better than any backup QB in the league
he is starting quality. You just can’t have all the leadership on his shoulders.
Also, 5.5mil is expensive for a backup QB. Chris Simms and his 3mil/year contract was outrageous, while Orton is worth the money talent wise, its not worth it for a backup QB.
Orton is set to make about 8.5M this year
That’s a lot of cheddar and a lot of reasons to trade him.
how much would you pay for Brandon Marshall?
How much is too much for a player that can win games. Without going into details I just have to ask, why is a QB so valuable for draft picks? You want picks you dont even know will work out over a player you know will die for your team. ?? I am baffled!
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
43 McSpeed200 . xxxx 147 79.2
How much is too much for a player that can win games.
Orton was not a winning QB under us. He is too expensive to be a backup. Yes money matters that much to the FO of every team.
Tell me
he didn’t win. Tell me Kyle Orton did not create plays and wins!
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
43 McSpeed200 . xxxx 147 79.2
So can Grossman
and Derek Anderson
and Jamarcus Russell(against us at home!)
Just because a QB can win a game, does not make them a winner. Orton had 11 wins in 29 games, that is not a winning QB.
Given
and I hate that. I will put a lot of that at McD’s feet. Because I can LOL…. Look at Ortons overall growth and you must see he is intelligent and willing to work in a system. To me that is a big plus that I want on my team.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
43 McSpeed200 . xxxx 147 79.2
I think alot of
Orton’s growth was due to McD. Say what you will about him as a HC, but he does amazing work with QB’s
Orton did grow
and he played like a starting QB. However, he probably hit his ceiling, though thats just speculation. Tebow has not hit his ceiling, and while he did play under the spread, he never had a chance to learn an NFL system. This guy is incredible, I truly believe humans like him are an extreme rarity and have the most potential out of any type of personality. Tebow has literally grown up being told he can’t be a QB, from HS to the NFL. He proved them wrong twice already, he deserves the chance to do so again.
I like Orton too
So it pains me to say this, because I fought for him all season. But the bottom line is, teams have the book on him. He is NOT going to be able to create plays under pressure in the 4th. He is going to take the big sack, make the big mistake, or generally fall apart in the clutch more often than not.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"And I mean that in the most professional way possible."
- Brandon Lloyd
Because we have three QBs
It’s not about liking him or about who is currently better, it’s that Orton has trade value and isn’t in our future plans. The difference between starting Orton and starting Tebow is about 8.5M and a 2nd round-ish draft pick. That’s two or three defenders that could be upgraded by trading Orton
So
You are willing to give up a good offense for possible defensive talent? When is it a good idea to give up what you have for what you might have? I don’t think I have seen anything in FA signings or draft that convince me I want to give up anything.
Dream on folks. I would keep what I have!
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
43 McSpeed200 . xxxx 147 79.2
wow that's just ridiculous
You are willing to give up a good offense for possible defensive talent?
Trading Orton does not equal giving up a good offense. In fact, the offense fared better and scored more points with Tebow starting.
You accept that Kyle Orton is not our future, right? You accept that this question of him leaving isn’t a question of if, but when right? So the only remaining question, is what would you like to get in return for him? A 2nd rounder this year, or nothing next year? Would you rather pay his $8.5M salary this year, or spend it on a very good defensive lineman in free agency?
Even if you believe Orton will play better than Tebow, you don’t really believe that Kyle playing like 10% better than Tebow would make up for all the defensive help we could have bought by trading him.
FGs are points and points are how winning and losing is measured
Having more points is better than less points (even if you think it’s just field goals). Tebow’s Broncos averaged more points per game than Orton’s Broncos.
I don’t want this to sound like I’m saying Tebow is already the better QB. I’m not. I’m only saying we started him for the last three games last year and the sky didn’t fall. He did well, got better in time, and kept the team competitive in games. Spending a bunch of money on a third QB and missing out on receiving trade value… for him to take reps and precious learning time away from Tebow – a QB that he’s only slightly better than – during a year where we could use that money and draft pick to rebuild with, fully knowing we’re not likely to be SB contenders… well I just don’t get it.
we went 1-2 and a few weeks ago people were telling us how fgs were no good we had to score tds and now they are suddenly OK.
Also we had a game where the defense forced 3 to’s and another where we got a special teams td .
the last time we had a 3+ to’s forced in a game we put up over 30 pts against a playoff team and won .
The offense did not fare better the defense and special teams made plays that they simply hadnt been making for a couple of months.
and you are exactly saying that Tebow is better than Orton but hes not at this point . Doesnt mean he cant surpass him at this point but its a reason that both Elway and the coach are using the word development ALOT
But the offense did fare better
In his 3 starts Tebow accounted for 11 tds, more than half of Orton’s in 13 starts.
Brandon Marshall?
When did he come into the equation? when he was let go I thought it was beneficial, as Orton would realize he had other people to throw to. And no Orton wont die for the team, however, he lays down and dies whenever the pocket breaks down. Orton will never be a franchise QB, he is what he is, a solid backup or a stop gap
by Calikula on Jan 18, 2011 6:21 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
I also read that he did not handle his demotion well.
And did not help Tebow. It was in the DP today. I say get rid of him.
When Orton wasn’t avoiding Tebow last season, he was laughing at him during post- practice sprints. After Tebow became the starter, Orton sulked on the sidelines and never tried to assist or encourage him.
The two can’t return to compete now that Orton is the backup — Orton won’t accept a demotion (again) — and they both can’t be on the roster making a potential $16.3 million in combined salary in 2011.
Orton has to be traded and there could be as many as seven suitors. He will be gone before training camp.
Take that with a grain of salt. It is Woody after all, but if it’s even remotely similar to the real situation than Orton has to go.
It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?
aka Solace
How does anyone know that he didnt help Tebow at all during those last 3 weeks? especially Woody !!
Did they see in the lockerroom too ? just simply dont buy that Orton who knew the offense probably better than Mccoy didnt offer ONE suggestion to Tebow in practice game etc.
Did anyone see Michael Vick coaching up Kolb when he was hurting with rib injuries ? Only in Broncoscountry do I see this level of ridiculousness get fed .
According to rotoworld:
2011: $6.89 million (+ $1.5 million roster bonus).
The $5.5M dollar figure that people are quoting isn’t his 2011 salary, it’s his total guaranteed money through the 2010 and 2011 seasons. It is true that Kyle would make less money if he’s not playing. But in my eyes that’s even worse. Paying five or six million for a guy to ride the bench is worse than paying 8.5 for a guy who wins out in a QB competition and is starting in games.
Sort of right
$2.879 million of his second-year base salary.
From rotoworld. That $6.89 million is with incentives included, his base is much lower. Add in the $1.5 million and you get $4.379 million.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
The point the Front Office looks at is not how much Orton makes...
it is how much money is spent overall for the QB position group. Spending less this year at QB doesn’t necessarily mean we will spend more on defensive players, because there will be a long-term plan about how much the teanm wants to spend for each position group, and we may want to keep that flexibility for future years.
Obviously, Orton is making starter-level money now, so long-term will not sit as a backup for Denver. He also is a starter-quality QB, so he won’t be happy sitting on the bench when he could be on another starting. Its bad for both team chemistry and salary cap reasons. The money problem is further reinforced by the fact that TT likely gets resigned to a raise in a year or 2 if he proves to be a viable long-term starter.
However, TT is CURRENTLY relatively cheap for a starter QB, so the overall QB spending may not be prohibitive or necessitate a move. The beauty of trading back and taking TT where we did is that his salary makes keeping both he an Orton a viable option for the short-term. We could easily hold onto Orton until we have a better sense of what TT offers….
Basically, there is no need to make knee-jerk decisions for 2011 due to salary constraints at the QB position, because as a group, their salaries are not disproportional.
KO has already said
that if he’s here next year he plans to start.
Unfortunately for him, that’s not in the cards. So, trade him out of respect. I’d rather have the bounty of picks he could provide than the [maybe] 1 that BQ could provide. There are backups we can sign in FA as well in case TT goes down
Orton's value to us right now is much
greater as trade bait than as a starting QB for us or a back-up QB. Love the guy but his value (perceived and real) most likely will never be higher than now. A roll of the dice with Tim Tebow is what we have to do and trade Orton. look at the teams who are still in it right now….QBs- Roths…(whatever), Cutler, Sanchez and Rogers…. all guys who can extend plays. Tebow certainly has shown that ability, now let’s pray that his other skills progress to match that aspect of his game. He’s the right way to go and a good gamble to take.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."
by rubincarterrocks on Jan 18, 2011 5:04 PM MST up reply actions
small sample size on QBs
last year it was Manning and Brees, neither of which was good at extending plays.
Don’t over read the value of any particular talent… extending plays can help a QB succeed, but is far from sufficient.
Orton is mid- to low-tier NFL starter. That is indeed a valueable commodity, and if we can get trade value, I have no problem going with it.
At the same time, TT has huge potential but its unknown if he’ll eventually be better than Orton long-term. So I can fully understand arguments that we keep Orton until we have a better sense of TT’s long-term viability. Orton may not like that, as that means he sits while TT gets his shot… but he’s under contract so if we decide to go that way, he has to deal with it or stay home.
Basically, folks who say ths is a black-and-white decision are in my mind foolish… this is a very grey situation, and largely depends on what kind of value we can get for Orton.
Best case for everyone (team & Orton) is that someone offers us good value and we all move on, but if folks lowball the team I have no problem keeping Orton as a hedge against a TT injury or washout.
Good thoughts cjfarls, made me think...
I agree with you that the sample is small but there are not many Mannings and Brees out there who can make the quick, accurate decision and throw. The vast majority of the QB in the NFL need a smidge more time and being able to move around in the pocket and even outside the pocket is certainly a plus. While I see your point on the “unknown” re: TT, I personally don’t think there truly is that much “unknown”. We do know he is a winner, he can move and throw on the run very well, he’s a great leader, he has great passion and commitment to getting better, he showed us in the last 3 games that even with limited experience he can carry a team on his back at times (and wants to btw). We cannot forget that he had like a 70% completion rate in college, and even if he was running a “safe” passing offense, you still have to make accurate throws, 70% is still 70%…
His biggest unknown is whether he can become a drop-back, pocket-passer. This skill combines footwork and the ability to diagnose the “D” while under center and make decisions while dropping back. The footwork is training and we know his commitment to working on his trade so I believe he will overcome that. As far as reading Ds, all the coaches who have interviewed him, including McD have stated his football IQ is very high, I think he’ll figure Ds out just fine.
The “knowns” far outweigh the “unknowns” in my estimation.
As far as Orton is concerned, I like him, liked him in Chicago and was not upset that we ended up with him in the Cutler fiasco. But we have seen him at his best, albeit with an inferior team. His “perceived” value is as high as it will get in the minds of many coaches and OCs in the league right now. Too valuable for us not to trade. Also, because I like him so much, I think he’s earned the right to start somewhere and not be a backup here.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."
by rubincarterrocks on Jan 19, 2011 12:52 PM MST up reply actions
Just read my own post, I must clarify
I am not TTs agent, or publicist…. lol!
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."
by rubincarterrocks on Jan 19, 2011 12:54 PM MST up reply actions
Don;t disagree with any of this
… and agree we should entertain offers for Orton for both ours and his sake.
But we should also recognize he has a lot of value as a backup here in Denver, that TT’s relatively low salary in 2011 allows us to keep a highly paid backup, and therefore we should not trade Orton for less than his backup/hedge value.
Keeping a good backup QB is a great idea, regardless of who we have starting. 3 games is not enough for me to say anything definitively about TT’s future, except that he’s definitely earned his shot to take the reigns and lead this team until he proves he’s NOT capable.
If we judged Brees 2 seasons in, we’d say he was a bust, and he ends up being an All-pro. If we judged M.Vick 1 season in we’d say he was great, 4 seasons in he’s a total bust who can’t hit the broadside of barn, and now, all of a sudden after a few years of forced downtime, he’s accurate and patient and looks like an Allpro… its just really difficult to judge future performance of QBs regardless of what we think you know about them.
plus, god forbid TT gets hit by a bus, blows out a knee, etc….. there are things we just can’t predict, so keeping a guy like Orton has big value.
Basically, there is absolutely no reason we can’t keep Orton in 2011 if he has more value here than what we are getting in a trade. Many folks say Orton has to go, but I’d not be surprised if his value is higher to us than many other teams, simply because he’s been here awhile and his role/qualities are relatively well defined. In a year his contract will run out and unless TT doesn’t pan out (for whatever reason be it injury, bust, etc.) I’d guess he moves on… but lets not wisk him out the door yet unless we get something for him.
Good stuff. Funny how neither one of us
brings Quinn into the conversation! lol.
I was concerned about McCoy, like everyone else, after his first game of those final 3, but I do believe its wise of Fox, for TTs sake to keep him around running the O. This will be very helpful I believe in TTs development….
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."
by rubincarterrocks on Jan 19, 2011 3:53 PM MST up reply actions
Why trade Orton?
Because it doesn’t matter who is playing QB for this team right now, we are not a playoff team. We need to rebuild. If Tebow gets hurt or struggles, then let’s see what Quinn can do. With this defense, we can’t win with Orton. Enough said. With the pick that we acquire for Orton, we might be able to improve the defense enough that two years from now, third year QB Tim Tebow will lead us back to the playoffs. Prolonging the Orton experiment is a complete waste of time. We need to get what we can for him now and move on.
Oh, you were finished? Oh, well, allow me to retort!
by GrizBronc on Jan 18, 2011 5:03 PM MST up reply actions 9 recs
+1
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."
by rubincarterrocks on Jan 18, 2011 5:08 PM MST up reply actions
Rec
Ubaldo "Iron Arm" Jimenez
Seth Smith’s beard looks on in anticipation.
Zomtober!!!
by Colsportsfan on Jan 18, 2011 5:12 PM MST up reply actions
I
Think the Orton experiment was successful. I know, lots of fans see the downside. I understand that he cannot carry the team. But. And this is a big one for me. Kyle Orton did one hell of a job, grew, and showed some serious talent.
A big +1 for Kyle Orton and what he did for Denver. Props. Dare you to say he didn’t!
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
43 McSpeed200 . xxxx 147 79.2
by Sean in Pa. on Jan 18, 2011 5:13 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
He did
But does that mean we HAVE to stick with him, even if there may be a better option already on the roster?
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"And I mean that in the most professional way possible."
- Brandon Lloyd
I'm prone to agree
and I’m someone who really appreciates Orton! But the time has come to move on and they need more draft picks.
That said, i won’t mind it terribly if Orton is still around in case Tebow isn’t ready.
But I think Quinn can also be a totally capable backup, and this team needs help in many other places.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Right on.
You said what I’ve been trying to say for some time now. I could not agree more.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
WE did win with Orton
and this defense.
Your reasoning is faulty. You want to give a third year Tebow the wins? Ok, dreamer. It doesn’t matter who is QB? Then I say we take the one that has shown heart, ability and talent!
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
43 McSpeed200 . xxxx 147 79.2
??
Your standards are awfully low if 3-10(11-18 overall) is winning games for you.
And your last sentence can also be said about Tebow.
Don't put him down
You want Tebow to run the team? fine. But Kyle Orton did a good job. Don’t discount what he did with nothing. In my opinion, he did a very good job with what he had.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
43 McSpeed200 . xxxx 147 79.2
I agree Sean...
but because many of us think he is more valuable in a trade as opposed to keeping him doesn’t mean i don’t respect him or appreciate what he has done for the Broncos the last 2 years.
I have been a huge supporter of Orton, but i too think he is more valuable on the trade block than as our starting or back up QB.Again only my opinion but it does make sense if you take the emotion out of it.
I think he’s a good leader and was great for the team at that time. I also think it’s time to move on with Tebow and build the defense to become competitive again.
The QB position is set!
by broncofaninIL on Jan 18, 2011 8:11 PM MST up reply actions
Sean Orton is leaving I dont see a scenario in which HE would be open to returning . The situation is so toxic for him here why would he return at this point
The funny part is everyone keeps talking picks but the facts is that Orton would have to agree to go to those teams because any team giving up 2nd and 3rd rd picks are gonna want to sign him to a multi year deal .
Couldnt Orton and his agent simply tell teams he doesnt like that he wont sign a new deal and that would make them hesitant about offering such high picks or any picks at all ? Couldnt they even tell the team not to offer the picks so they could push for a release and then sign with the other team outright ?
If he was signed to a multi year deal I could see the trade predictions but on a one year deal with the lockout looming its not simply the us and another team swapping assets .
BQ = relatively cheap
I believe I read that Brady will cost us about $700k in the final year of his contract. No, he’s not the future in Denver, but that’s not terribly expensive. Consider also that he could be packaged in a trade.
As has been mentioned already KO is too expensive to ride the pine and it sure looks like we will be giving TT his chance in a run-oriented offense.
I wouldn’t be opposed to a proven backup who has skills closer to KO with a price tag closer to BQ, but who would fit that description?
stuck between Jets and Patriots fans in the Northeast
Broncos Fan for 35+ years
except KO is not too expensive
because TT and BQ are cheap. See post above.
Basically, for 2011 the players can be judged on their merits and trade value, and we don’t really need to worry about salary because as a group, they aren’t too expensive.
And...
We should trade him while he has value…what is the point of letting him play out his contract and walk for nothing?
what is the point of buying insurance?
I hope to never have a fire in my house… but that doesn’t mean I don’t have smoke alarms and homeowners insurance….
Investment to hedge against risk is why we should consider keeping Orton.
Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t let him go if he has more value in trade, etc… but if all we’re getting for him is a late rounder, it very well be worth more keeping him a year.
Here's the thing
Absolutely nobody really know what the FO will do about Orton. Nobody. It remains to be seen and that is the bottom line like it or notton and then. If we start Tebow next season would you rather have Orton as a back up or Quinn?
We conquered this territory with our bodies and souls, then we watered it with our tears.
Go Denver!
Wow I lost half of what I posted... oops
We conquered this territory with our bodies and souls, then we watered it with our tears.
Go Denver!
Agreed, I said this last season as well
Till we fix the defense, it doesn’t matter who the quarterback is, we aren’t going to win many games. So don’t say Orton isn’t a Super Bowl quarterback, because it doesn’t matter, Elway couldn’t get this team to the Super Bowl.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
agree
but even so, why wouldn’t we want to be the best team we can, even if we aren’t SB bound?
Personally, I’d rather win 5 games than 3. Do you really want to be like Carolina last year, with a unproven/high potential youngster and absolutely zero fallback position if he gets hurt or doesn’t pan out?
I totally agree
I’m saying that you don’t upgrade the rims on your car till you fix the engine, well you can, but your car will still suck. Fix problems before upgrading things that work.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Man if we could get even that much for Orton...
That would be fantastic. Never too early to think about the draft when you’re 4-12.
If Warren Sapp is so damn smart, let him take the snaps.
Who wouldn't love Peterson, but,
our need on the interior of the DL is so pronounced that if we don’t pick a DT first I believe we will really regret it. Our secondary is our strength and if Cox makes it through his legal issues ok then I have a lot of confidence in what I’ve seen in him (and Thompson for that matter) Sign Champ! and Keep Goody, even draft some CB or Safeties late in the 3rd or 4th. But I would go DT first then MLB, then another DT and then go from there. Our DL decline was fully done in when we let Pryce go, we misread what he had left. Interior D Lineman who are dominant are really hard to come by and are game changers and make the rest of the defense play better. I’ve become more and more convinced over the years that they are the most important player on the D, followed closely by MLB. (Hence my moniker…)
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."
by rubincarterrocks on Jan 18, 2011 4:57 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
Agreed to infinity.
A CB is only so good for 5-6 seconds.. if you can’t rush the passer or stop the run, then they are essentially rendered useless. I am done putting off our D-line until “later in the draft.” That is the exact reason our defense is in shambles now. It’s time to fix it, finally. It’s been a long time coming.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
by grind_core on Jan 18, 2011 5:48 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Well said grind
Weve had an elite CB for how many seasons and the defense still sucks. We need to address the line and rush the passer, stop the run
And you raise an extremely good point
that none of these talking heads around here seem to bring up, or they just conveniently choose to leave it out of the equation. Champ has been one of the best, if not the best, CB’s in the NFL over the last 7+ years. Where has it gotten us? Dead last in total defense. I’m not pinning it all on Champ. But it’s obvious. Without a better front seven (starting up front), it would be foolish to expect results any different other than what we’ve had in the same time frame. I’d be curious to see if anyone else wants to refute this. The burden of proof doesn’t lie on us. It lies on those that think drafting a CB instead of a DL is going to somehow magically transform our defense.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
As one more point
Remember how many times Rivers was hurried/hit/sacked the last time the Broncos beat SD? The proof is in the pudding
And don't forget
Champ is not only a great cover corner, he’s the best run-stopping CB in the NFL. But he can’t stop the run until it’s already 7 yards downfield, and even that doesn’t do anything but mask the problem. We need front 7, specifically DL!!!!
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"And I mean that in the most professional way possible."
- Brandon Lloyd
Which
is what everyone leaves out of their argument as to why we need Peterson. We need to go with practicality, not with the “sexy” pick
Word
Every year, we ignore the maxim, “you win games in the trenches.” Every year it seems, we fall in love with the shiny, “can’t miss” prospect," then we bemoan that we forgot that “you win games in the trenches.” I know the entire draft is a crapshoot, but just once I hope we do more than pay lip service to ‘starting up front.’
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"And I mean that in the most professional way possible."
- Brandon Lloyd
Practicality?
Taking a one year wonder is practicality? Taking guys with character issues is a practicality? Taking a guy who has one year of NCAA experience is practicality? Taking a guy who only showed up when money was on the line is practicality? What exactly is practical about it?
This is not a Madden video game, this is real life. Let’s not forget, just because McDaniels is gone doesn’t mean the new regime is going to overlook the character flaws in Fairley and Bowers because they had one breakout season.
follow me on Twitter: @Sayre_Bedinger
Check me out on Facebook also
XBox LIVE gamer tag as suggested by XBox: SoppiestKibbles
yep....that's for real
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 18, 2011 8:22 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Theres others available too Sayre
and maybe we can trade down and get a bunch of defensive lineman. Who knows? But all I can say is that taking Peterson and matching him up with Bailey (who isnt even a lock for the season) will not fix the defense. Bailey did not prevent the 3 400+ point seasons the Broncos have been in recently. So yes, Sayre, this isnt Madden, this is real life, and Peterson is not what the Broncos need for defense. Just look at what an elite CB has done for the defense for the past 7 seasons, not as a knock on the great Champ Bailey but as proof that a corner, even a great one cannot carry a defense on their back.
Side note:
I just realized that Champs initials are CB. Guess he was born for the job. I would love see him back
Yes, when we had ZERO talent, Champ was largely ineffective
It’s a good thing teams weren’t able to pass to their best receiver most of the time. We take Champ for granted. I agree, it’s possible to trade down and get more defensive linemen, but we’re not seeing big picture here. The need for a cornerback WILL arise sooner rather than later, and we WILL wish we had a really good one. Look at Goodman and Champ, they are both 32 years old. Perrish Cox will likely be back with the team, but is he a number one corner?
We’re not thinking anywhere past 2011 here, and that is the problem. If we were to take a DL in the first round, it should be Dareus or Clayborn.
follow me on Twitter: @Sayre_Bedinger
Check me out on Facebook also
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yep....that's for real
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 18, 2011 8:36 PM MST up reply actions
I wouldnt mind that
but thinking in the now isnt so bad either. Other CBs will come Sayre, trust me, they will come. Another gem in a corner will come along, and if the cards are right for Denver, then hopefully they will get him. That said, in my opinion the best thing Denver can do right now is to fix the line, and re-sign Champ. Even if he goes, I believe with a line that can put pressure on the QB and stop the run, the defense will be great even with average corners.
"The need for a cornerback WILL arise sooner rather than later, and we WILL wish we had a really good one."
You are living in the future. I choose to live in the present. We DO need lineman. Our defense DOES suck because of it, not to say it’s the only reason, it’s just the main reason. Your logic is flawed.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
I am thinking about the future, yes
Is that a bad thing? This thing is not going to be fixed in one draft. Better to take the best player available than take a bad character guy just because he’s a defensive tackle…
follow me on Twitter: @Sayre_Bedinger
Check me out on Facebook also
XBox LIVE gamer tag as suggested by XBox: SoppiestKibbles
yep....that's for real
by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 18, 2011 10:16 PM MST up reply actions
Exactly
Our team is the long-running cautionary tale that all the greatest DBs in the world can only lock down the field for so long. If you can’t pressure an NFL QB for 5, 6, 7, 38 seconds, your DBs ARE going to eventually lose the battle.
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"And I mean that in the most professional way possible."
- Brandon Lloyd
Great mock, Sayre
This draft would instantly rebuild our defense. The only change I’d make would be looking at somone like Martez Wilson at no. 46. Bailey is too much of a tweener for me, and from what I’ve read, he’s more of a run-stuffer without the speed to turn the edge. We already have Ayers to fill that role. Love geting Austin in the third. Add a pass-rusher in free agency and we’re really in busines.
by EddieRoyalwithCheese on Jan 18, 2011 5:00 PM MST reply actions
Listening to 104.3
and one of the hosts says we need to pick Claiborne. Said he is most ready.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Seuss
"If there is anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot NOW!"
...Zaphod Beeblebrox-Intergalactic President
"If you didn't know, now you know"
Do you mean Clayborn, from Iowa?
As a Hawkeye fan I would have been all over this last year. This year he was extremely disappointing from. Lack and effort and conditioning was a big issue, and becomes a big question come draft day. If we could get him late, I would be all for it. He has the ability to be very dominant, and if he is not the center of attention (as he was is whole senior year), look at he can be very dangerous. As a Hawkeye fan I would love for us to get him, and to have him right some wrongs he did to me during is senior campaign…..
by cfive4Broncos on Jan 18, 2011 5:16 PM MST up reply actions
The one and the same.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Seuss
"If there is anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot NOW!"
...Zaphod Beeblebrox-Intergalactic President
"If you didn't know, now you know"
Still think that the Vikes
are the best candidate for a Orton trade….(I’d take a 3rd and Gerhart)
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."
by rubincarterrocks on Jan 18, 2011 5:08 PM MST reply actions
You are out of your mind.
NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND will trade a 3rd and Gerhart, THIS IS TYPICAL FAN FANTASY!
WHY NOT INCLUDE PETERSON AND GERHART INSTEAD OF THE 3RD. BE SERIOUS
I would take that trade!
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Seuss
"If there is anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot NOW!"
...Zaphod Beeblebrox-Intergalactic President
"If you didn't know, now you know"
If you were the Viking coach
You would take that trade?
I think a 3rd plus gerhart is too much indeed
but not as crazy as you make it sound. Orton is far better than who they have right now, they are desperate for a QB. And he has put up some very good numbers the past 2 years on a team that was often a mess and in transition. That said it’s still more likely to be a 3rd rounder, period.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
thanks sayre, keep em coming
Question for you. Say fairley, dareus, bowers, and peterson reach their respective potential. Who would you prefer, a sapp, a seymore, a peppers or a chuck woodson?
luckily im a bronco and a blazer fan
VERY intriguing question, though.
Let me pose one not on quite the same scale, but since you brought up Sapp…which player do we see as the most important part of that stifling Bucs defense from 2000: Sapp, Derrick Brooks, Lynch, Ronde Barber?
- Nick
"Know the enemy, know yourself, and victory is never in doubt, not in a hundred battles."
- Sun Tzu
"And I mean that in the most professional way possible."
- Brandon Lloyd
If the Viking were dumb enough to hire me to be their
coach and give me the power to make trades, then yes I would pull off that trade! Why would I do something so stupid you ask, b/c as soon as I conduct one practice they are going to realize I have no clue about what I am doing and fire me anyway! Might as well get fired making my favorite team better.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Seuss
"If there is anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot NOW!"
...Zaphod Beeblebrox-Intergalactic President
"If you didn't know, now you know"
Ooops, that was in reply to Kimo 526
Thought I had hit reply button, my bad.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Seuss
"If there is anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot NOW!"
...Zaphod Beeblebrox-Intergalactic President
"If you didn't know, now you know"
I know right ;-)
It isn’t my fault, I swear!
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Seuss
"If there is anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot NOW!"
...Zaphod Beeblebrox-Intergalactic President
"If you didn't know, now you know"
Would be sick if this exact draft worked out for us...
Half-man, half-bear, and half-pig. I like giving my two cents, but no one ever takes me cereal.
by manbearpig5000000 on Jan 18, 2011 5:27 PM MST reply actions
bfree
I hope you are wrong.
I feel alone on an island. I hope John Elway will listen to me, Brian Xanders could help. Keep Kyle OIrton. Maybe I should start a website and a petition. Keep Kyle Orton. What could be simpler than to keep the good players you have????
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
43 McSpeed200 . xxxx 147 79.2
The monetary reason
he is wayyyyy to pricey for a backup QB.
Dont worry Sean
youre not alone. Theres a couple of others here who feel like you do. I believe it would be beneficial to Tebow to keep Orton one more year, but only to have him study under him. That said, I wouldnt be sorry to see Orton go either. He’s an ok QB, but not a great one. With either Orton or Tebow leading the team next year, my thoughts are the Broncos are 8-8, as long as they fix the defense and the run
Orton
gives us the best chance of salvaging a season if Tebow has any problems.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Don’t worry about it. As an ignorant redneck, I’m qualified to say that.
MileHighReport Pick 'Em
43 McSpeed200 . xxxx 147 79.2
Yes thats true also
but like I said with or without him, as long as they address the D and the run, the broncos will go on to around 8-8 next season
I like this Draft!! But try this on for size --
7. Sixth Round (from Detroit): Da’Rel Scott RB, Maryland 5-11 200
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6vNu1O6tWA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADjVJ3MKd8k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4Kov1DRcd4&NR=1
• Doak Walker Award three consecutive years, pretty amazing considering how little time he saw his freshman year.
• posted more than 100 total yards in seven of his eight 2010 games
• IN MILITARY BOWL (Dec. 29th 2010) Scott had second-half touchdown runs of 61 and 91 yards on back-to-back Terrapins offensive plays, ran for 201 yards.
Injury History
2008 season – Shoulder (missed 1.5 games)
2009 Season – Broken Wrist (missed 5 games)
More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da’Rel_Scott
TRADE ORTON = EPIC FAIL
You make the case why we should keep Orton!!!!
Sayre Quote “Should the CBA situation get resolved, I believe very firmly that Kyle Orton will be on his way out of Denver, and I think there are no fewer than 10 teams who would love to have him as their starting quarterback”
Besides our obvious differences on the whole Orton/Tebow thing. I think that your draft is OK.
Having Champ Bailey for the last 6-8 years and having a shut down CB has proved 1 thing – Denver needs a PASS RUSH.
1. Peterson = good player but we need Dline.
2. Luiget = good pick but is predicted to go 1st Round by nfldraftscout.com
3. Bailey = originally I like him but now think he looks like Tarzan but plays like Jane.
4. Marvin Austin = will go late 1st/2nd Round – doubt he last til 3rd.
Who is going to play Safety????
OVERALL not a great draft. I have like some of your others more
LOL @ you
I too dabbled in pacifism once...
by waltersobchakbronco on Jan 18, 2011 7:07 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Excellent mock in terms of strategy
but there’s no way in hell Arizona is trading away a third, fourth and future pick – it’s just not happening. I could see some team trading away a third, or even a second, but not a combination of picks. I honestly think we’ll get a third out of him, and I’ll be extremely happy with that. In terms of the strategy though, I couldn’t agree more. I still believe defenses are built from the line up, yet if there’s a player as explosive as Peterson when we pick, I wouldn’t mind taking him as long as we make up for our d-line later on.
Hyperboles kill.
Never underestimate the power of infatuation towards athletes.
There's no such thing as a debate, unless there is a judge present; everything else is just an argument.
Move over Melo, there's a new #15 in town.
Wherever you are, think of your dreams, remember that dreams become the life you lead. - Prince
Great Job bud.
You’ve got a 5 mock head start.
I better put my first one out there soon :)
Peterson and Bailey would be a deadly corner combo.
I would probably not pick up Dowling and pick a safety like Sash or Carter if we got Peterson in the 1st.
Love the Austin pick. He is going to be a steal for someone.
Let’s collab soon amigo.
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"They said I couldn't be a high school quarterback, they said I couldn't get a D1 scholarship. You're not good enough, you're not skilled enough. They said I couldn't win a heisman. They said I couldn't win a national championship. They said I wouldn't be a first round draft pick. They said I couldn't play in the league. Appreciate that." - Tim Tebow.
They sure would be a deadly combo..
too bad it wouldn’t matter because teams would still be having their way with us up front.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
by grind_core on Jan 18, 2011 6:41 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree to disagree
peterson in the 1st
If we pick up a DT like Marvin Austin in the 2nd round, we will be in really good shape.
Ayers and Doom as DE’s and Bannan and Austin as DT’s will be a solid D-Line.
There are alternatives to Fairley and Bowers.
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This is what you are saying
“If we don’t take Nick Fairley or Da’Quan Bowers, or even Marcell Dareus, there is no way we can improve our run defense”
That is an extremely inaccurate comment, but if that’s the way you want to think then be my guest.
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by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 18, 2011 8:11 PM MST up reply actions
And saying that Peterson
is the answer is just ludicrous, but nevertheless, you spit it as if it’s gospel. I’m glad you think you are the judge, jury and executioner when it comes to what comments are accurate or not. You really need someone to poke a hole in that balloon you call a head. You say Fairley has character issues, yet no where do I see you say anything about Nick’s suggestion about Austin, you know, the guy that was kicked off the team. Here is the reality. It’s guys like you, Max and BFSD that shape your opinion based off the opposition you receive for voicing your opinions in the first place.
The more comments you read that DON’T agree with your line of thinking, the more you quietly, but obviously start to hate some of these players i.e. you and Fairley and Max and BFSD with Tebow. You try to mask it otherwise, but it’s pretty obvious that this is what’s happening. Here’s another thing. You aren’t fooling anybody. If you don’t like a guy, just fu**ing say it. Don’t pussyfoot around it.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
I absolutely am not
Where am I “spitting it as if it’s gospel”?? I make these things based on what I think COULD happen, as well as what I think WILL happen, as well as what I think SHOULD happen. As you can see, what I think SHOULD happen is only making up 33% of my process here. I’m not sure where you’re getting that I think my picks are “gospel” or how I think I’m the ultimate judge, but I don’t. I have an opinion, just like everyone else. It’s my opinion that Patrick Peterson is the best choice for the Broncos, and at this point in time, that is not only something that could happen, it’s something that likely will happen. Again, don’t freak out here, I’m not saying it is a lock to happen, I’m saying I THINK it COULD be a lock to happen. In other words, if the draft were tomorrow, I would put my money on Patrick Peterson. I’m trying to play mock GM here, but at the same time, I’m also thinking about what I think the Broncos will do. That’s where we’re misunderstood.
I also said below, well before you commented here, that I don’t think Fairley and Bowers are good options as of right now. Are they options? Sure, are they great options? Not in my opinion.
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by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 18, 2011 10:24 PM MST up reply actions
Defending my picks
There’s a difference between me thinking my opinion is gospel and defending my picks. I put a lot of work into making these, and so obviously if someone comes in and says that Peterson is a terrible pick, or that Liuget, Bailey, and Austin don’t satisfy the need to upgrade the defensive line, you can bet you butt I’m going to defend myself. If you take that as me thinking my opinion is gospel, which by the way is a very blasphemous statement, then I am sorry. That’s not how it’s intended.
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by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 18, 2011 10:25 PM MST up reply actions
And another thing,
show me one link that DEFINITIVELY states we are moving to a 4-3. You can’t, because it doesn’t exist. It’s not about what YOU want. How about you make a mock with the 3-4 in mind. Oh wait, you won’t because god almighty has stated that we are moving to a 4-3, but wait. That never happened, either. Face the facts, don’t just spew your concepts as if they are the absolute truth, because they aren’t. We have the personnel in place to run the 3-4 effectively, you just choose to ignore anything that refutes your concept. You get a fair amount of these people at MHR thinking the same things as you, because you do have a way with words.
“Groupthink is a type of thought within a deeply cohesive in-group whose members try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas.”
None of that here though, amirite?
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
Furthermore
What evidence do you have that states we are sticking with the 3-4? Dumervil? Our d-line that is so bad? Our lack of pass rushing OLB’s? What exactly is tipping YOU off?
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by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 18, 2011 10:17 PM MST up reply actions
I have none.
All I am saying is that we have the guys for it, so it seems more logical. That has been my argument the whole time bro.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
I simply disagree then
I don’t think we have a good DL in place, we have only one good hybrid OLB, Robert Ayers is not quick enough to get around the edge in the 3-4, and neither he, Doom, Hunter, or Haggan, or anyone else who plays OLB for us is horrible in coverage. So in my opinion, we don’t have a DL for it, nor do we have adequate pass rushing talent.
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by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 19, 2011 9:26 AM MST up reply actions
I would rather have Marcel Dareus and Jimmy Smith at CB then your 2 1st selections
Dareus > Luiget
Smith = had only 11 passes completed on him in 2 years
That is a better combo
This is my favorite mock draft...
Don’t change a thing, just keep reposting this one till draft day, I’ll never get tired of looking at it!
QB and DT
They will either reach for a QB or draft Fairley IMO
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It's very up in the air
I severely doubt it will be a QB, but it could be AJ Green, Patrick Peterson, Nick Fairley, Da’Quan Bowers…
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by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 18, 2011 8:12 PM MST up reply actions
From what I've been hearing I agree Sayre
The QB position is set!
by broncofaninIL on Jan 18, 2011 8:20 PM MST up reply actions
They probably need Green as much as any of them, but...
with Rivera coming in as a new HC from a Defensive mindset, I suppose Defense will be the pick at #1.
This is the best mock so far
I too dabbled in pacifism once...
by waltersobchakbronco on Jan 18, 2011 7:08 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Only one problem...
Overall great strategy. The only problem I see is drafting Peterson to play in a Cover 2, if that’s the main coverge scheme we decide to go with. In a Cover 2 the CBs don’t need to be as big and physical like in a man scheme, so it almost seems like it would be a waste of his talents.
If we implement C2, then we should grab Fairley. If we play a lot of man, then I think Peterson is the right call because of his uber talents.
"Your brain is the most important muscle in your body." - John Fox
by QDoc on Jan 18, 2011 7:26 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Cover 2 Corner
Cover 2 corner are asked to be edge defenders. They MUST be sure tacklers and are typically asked to be more physical that man corners in the run game. In that case Peterson is the perfect fit…
it would be awesome, but ...
don’t think Bailey will make it out of the first round. Also, wouldn’t it be nice to get a little help at ILB.
Nice picks Sayre. This is not one of my favorites that you have done but I could live with it. I don’t mind Peterson in the first at all.
The one pick I don’t really like is Allen Bailey. I have watched this guy play about five games this year. I don’t usually say this about any player but this guy sucks! He is super slow off the line, doesn’t understand rudimentary defensive schemes, and appears to be more of a bodybuilder than football player. I shouldn’t say he “sucks” but I feel really strong about him.
I would probably rather take Muhammed Wilkerson than Bailey. It would have been nice to get LB before the fourth round too. Again, some nice picks but not my favorite. Keep them coming though, they are entertaining.
Thanks for the info on Bailey
I had only seen him in a couple of games, so it’s good information to know. I wonder why so many scouts have him so high all the time, and I should have seen the red flag when NFLDS had him all the way down at 57, which ironically is his jersey number.
I like Wilkerson’s upside as well, so I will keep that under consideration for next time.
Also, I was reading DraftTek’s new mock. They had us taking Peterson in round one, as I expected, and Stephen Paea in the 2nd. This is not a change from their previous mock, but this time, they had us passing on Adrian Clayborn….in the SECOND ROUND. If that is even a slight possibility, I will crap my pants if we pass on Clayborn at that point, and I wouldn’t even rule him out completely for our first round pick!
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by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 18, 2011 10:30 PM MST up reply actions
In my opinion, Fairley and Bowers are almost non-options
I will wait to make that opinion official until we interview, but Nick Fairley and Da’Quan Bowers are both very sketchy prospects in my opinion. I’m not just taking a CB for the sake of passing on defensive line. Fairley has questions about his laziness and work ethic, not to mention the fact that he wasn’t even considered an impact player for Auburn prior to the start of the season. As for Bowers, he was supposed to be dominant coming into Clemson, and despite the fact that he athletically over-matched everyone he faced, he never showed up until his junior season when millions of dollars were on the line. What happens when he has nothing more to play for?
We should not underestimate this team’s value on character. Just because Fairley is a DT does not mean he is the right prospect, and just because Bowers plays DL does not make him the right prospect.
If we want a defensive lineman, our best option is to trade down, acquire more picks, and take Marcell Dareus or Adrian Clayborn, or something like that.
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Haha. The best option is always to trade down and aquire more picks.
Ain’t gonna happen to trade down from #2 this year though.
If there is a CBA in place and with it a rookie wage scale which will see smaller rookie contracts wont this make it easier to trade down from 2nd
"The Holy Writ of Gloucester Rugby Club demands: first, that the forwards shall win the ball; second, that the forwards shall keep the ball; and third, the backs shall buy the beer." - Doug Ibbotson
This draft would bring me to tears...
I love this draft…if the Broncos came away with these players on draft day, it would be one of the greatest drafts in Broncos history. However, I dont think Bailey will be there in the mid 2nd round. He is a late 1st in most mocks. If we want Bailey we would have to take him with the high 2nd and shoot for Luiget with the middle second. I hope Austin is there in the 3rd and if he is…we have to take him! The only position you didnt address is Safety. Instead of 2 CBs maybe sneak in Duenta Williams instead of Ros I Dowling.
I love the idea of Peterson…I think he is about as guarantee as you get and there are a lot of 2nd and 3rd round talent we can go after in the 2nd and 3rd.
Great Draft tho!
Goodnight
It was good talking some football with you Sayre, and I like your mock (except the Peterson pick) Your arguments are backed up with reason and I will continue to enjoy debating with you. Peace
Hey thanks a lot
Totally cool to disagree. If everyone agreed with me, these would be no fun! ;)
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by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 18, 2011 10:31 PM MST up reply actions
Hey Sayre.
Or should I say Hollywood. I hear you’re famous now. Mentioned on ESPN. Wow! Congrats.
Nice mock. Love Corey To Liuget To Quit. He’s got to make it past NE 3 times though before we can get him @ 36. Like Austin too. He may be a riser after combines though. Not high on Bailey. We agree that Orton is gone and wants to be. He will start somewhere next year, just not in Denver. Tenn, SF, Ariz, Miami or Minn are my guesses. Hey, check out Mike Mohamed ILB as a 6th rounder.
LOL--Hollywood not so much
Thanks a lot though!
I considerd Mohamed as one of my picks. He seems like he could be a nice fit at ILB.
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by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 18, 2011 10:32 PM MST up reply actions
I like part of your mock.
I still like Bowers for our #1
I really like CB Jimmy Smith. He is said to go in the 2nd though. If we get him in the 2nd that throws the rest of your mock of kilter..Check out Jimmy’s scouting report. Fast/big.
http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2518
I am still on the fence..Nice mock Sayre
Bring back the Orange!
I'm so optimistic I'd go after Moby Dick in a row boat and take the tartar sauce with me.~Zig Ziglar
I like Jimmy too
Jimmy….er….timmay! lol
What is it you like about Bowers?
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by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 18, 2011 10:33 PM MST up reply actions
DE
DE just looks like a glaring need for us. Bowers is the best DE in the draft. Like I said I am still on the fence right now..
Bring back the Orange!
I'm so optimistic I'd go after Moby Dick in a row boat and take the tartar sauce with me.~Zig Ziglar
by timmaybronco on Jan 18, 2011 10:38 PM MST up reply actions
How did we get a 6th round pick from Detroit and lose our 7th round pick? Is that part of the Phonz trade? Are you sure?
Tim Tebow > Kyle Orton
That is per Lindsay Jones
at the time of the trade. I won’t dig thru the Twitter archives now, but that’s how I understood it.
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by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 18, 2011 10:19 PM MST up reply actions
Peterson
A lot of talk about Peterson isn’t there. I was just reading his reports. I guess I could live with that pick..
Bring back the Orange!
I'm so optimistic I'd go after Moby Dick in a row boat and take the tartar sauce with me.~Zig Ziglar
Best Mock So Far
I like the idea of 3 D-linemen in the early rounds. I’m ok with Peterson at #2. He seems worth it but would be a shame to pass up Fairly, if he were available.
I think Peterson might be drafted lower actually.
I think the biggest misconception, and this is true of most drafts, is that there are only 4-5 impact players every draft and they need to be picked in the first 4-5 picks. In truth, they are picked in the first round and 2nd rounds. The Patriots, Steelers, Ravens are a testament to this.
he's tall, blonde, smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Great Post Sayre, rec'd
I like it – strong on the D we need!
I completely agree on dumping Orton now while he’s worth something.
I've been bleedin' orange and blue since Floyd Little in '71-'72 and will 'til the day I die!
Bring back the Orange Crush!
Would not be sad at all if our draft happened like this.
Don’t love Sheppard as LB but if we got Anderson from the Panthers then I wouldn’t mind at all.
Iove the CB pick and I also love the TE pick (which would also need a FA complement) and all the defense.
If there is a new rookie cap then I have absolutely zero qualms about picking Peterson #2. I would love to have him on the Broncos. If we could keep Champ too then it would be awesome.
The only thing I wish I was seeing was a Safety. I know Peterson can play safety but I would rather him stay at CB opposite Champ. I could definitely live with this draft and be plenty happy for the whole offseason.
I would love to get Micheal Bush in FA. There is really nothing I dislike about these picks. Great job Sayre.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
Character issues are a concern
for Fairley, but yet you have us taking Marvin Austin. Austin was thrown off UNC’s football team, for those that don’t know. I get that he would be taken lower, but really. Just spare the whole argument if you are willing to have us take a guy like that.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
It's the difference
between the 2nd pick and the 67th pick…And you WOULD know that if you actually read my analysis instead of just scrolling through the picks.
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by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 19, 2011 9:24 AM MST up reply actions
But either way,
we would be spending a pick on a guy with character issues. What does it matter when he is drafted. I do read your posts, they are well written. I may not agree with some of them, but that’s alright. I guess to me there is no difference. One could argue you don’t lose as much if it doesn’t work out, but in the end, a wasted pick is a wasted pick. I just think saying we shouldn’t take a guy with Fairley’s upside because he is basically just mean doesn’t work for me. The comments he made about not wanting to play in a cold weather area have been blown completely out proportion, but it’s not like the MSM ever does that though..
IMO, taking the safe guy isn’t the only way to do things. Look where it has gotten us, to an extent. In the end, Carolina will probably take Fairley, so it will end up being a moot point. PP is a hell of a player, and no doubt a game changer in his own right. I think we’d be lucky to get either of them, but I’d still take Fairley first.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
I see your points
And I’ve mocked Fairley to us up until my fourth mock. However, lately I have been hearing that he is lazy, and it makes sense because he never really applied himself until he was 22 years old. Now, it came at a good time, and he had a much more dominant year statistically than even Ndamukong Suh in HIS junior year. Yes, Fairley has had a great year. In my opinion though, I don’t see our coaching staff falling in love with his intangibles, or lack thereof. If they feel otherwise, and should decide to pull the trigger, you can bet that I’ll be one of Nick Fairley’s biggest fans. Same with Da’Quan Bowers.
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by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 19, 2011 12:17 PM MST up reply actions
The thing about Bowers..
I’d be curious to see who exactly they played. The guy has some skills, certainly. But at what level of competition was he really playing against? We know NF was playing in the SEC, so no questions there. Just a thought.
Tony Robbins calls Tim Tebow for motivational support.
Fairley
I heard that (read that) too about Fairley. Reminds me of the scouting reports on Ayers that nobody listened to. Good point and we should keep that in mind this draft.
Bring back the Orange!
I'm so optimistic I'd go after Moby Dick in a row boat and take the tartar sauce with me.~Zig Ziglar
by timmaybronco on Jan 20, 2011 1:31 AM MST up reply actions
Late Round RB!!!
IMHO I would really like to find a late round RB.
I’ve had my sights set on Shaun Draughn from the N.C. Tar Heels.
He just seems bigger and faster than everybody on the field. Good size 6’ 0" 210lbs. Avg’s about 5 yds a carry but had some games against good competition that showed he has highlight capability. Parents are ministers so he may have some good morals (which we need around here). Had some injury issues, but comes from the Butch Davis pedigree which has produced some serious RB’s in his days at the U. Watched him during the Music City Bowl and he ran all over the place. Might be my sleeper pick of this draft.
by Lucky Mercenary on Jan 19, 2011 9:11 AM MST reply actions
Thanks Sayre
Interesting discussion here.
Nice way of addressing the D-line issue without wrapping it up completely in the #2 pick.
While a new rookie salary system may limit some fo the risk of such high picks, I do think there is something to be said for taking more “sure thing” players at the top of the draft rather than risks that may not pan out and cripple the team long-term.
I love Fairley, but think he’s likely to be gone #1, and if not, hear your concerns about character, etc. Bowers I have big questions about in terms of bust risk (though high potenital too), so in that respect agree that Peterson may be the safest pick while still getting elite talent. As long as D-line is still addressed later, I have no problem with such a strategy.
Thanks for prompting good discussion.
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