Denver Broncos News: Horse Tracks - 1/21/11

by Tim Lynch on Jan 21, 2011 7:51 AM MST in Horse Tracks

Q&A: With Elway and Xanders now running the show, Broncos can't afford to bomb in the draft - The Denver Post
Since 2005, the Broncos have drafted 45 players, and only 22 are on the roster. Do you think they have the right scouting staff and the right people now to draft some quality players who will be good in the long run?

Will Broncos coach Fox wait on Trgovac? - The Denver Post
With a major spot still open on his coaching staff, Broncos head coach John Fox may have to wait to talk to the candidate he knows best.

John Fox: Caretaker of the Denver Broncos & the Tim Tebow Experiment - XTRA Point Football
After less than two years in Denver, the Josh McDaniels experiment was terminated. McDaniels tore down a well put together team. Granted the team had problems, especially on the defensive side of the ball...or perhaps I should say, just on the defensive side of the bal as Mike Shanahan had the 2nd ranked offense in his last season with the Broncos. It became apparent that Shanahan was just throwing darts at a dart board holding a list of potential defensive talent in his last few years in Denver as Shanahan's defense ranked 29th in his last season there. The non-attention to defense is what became his downfall and would lead to the Shanahan era ending in the Mile High city.

Keep an eye on what Denver does with Orton | StarTribune.com
There are those in Denver who aren't buying new Broncos coach John Fox's coachspeak when it comes to who the heck will start at QB in 2011.

Rodgers, Gase Named to Broncos’ Staff " MaxDenver
Two more coaches are in the Broncos’ fold, and they follow the pattern of the hires announced this week: one from the Broncos’ previous staff, and the other from Carolina’s staff in 2010.

Bailey's agent says he still hasn't been contacted by the Broncos - KDVR
As the Broncos work diligently to make over their franchise, a lot of questions have been asked about the organization's future.

Mock draft mania - AFC West Blog - ESPN
The first mock drafts of ESPN draft gurus Mel Kiper and Todd McShay have been released in Insider pieces. Earlier this week, I put out my first AFC We

Brian Xanders: Broncos GM talks NFL Draft, defense and Champ Bailey - The Denver Post
In this edition of "Fan Mail," Denver Broncos general manager Brian Xanders tackles fans questions about the NFL Draft, Champ Bailys future and big changes at Dove Valley.

Analysis: Final four in NFL playoffs offer lessons, especially about defense and coaches' egos - The Denver Post
A one-season sample would certainly never constitute a trend to those who track such things. But there are some things that are worth looking at with the leagues final four this Sunday.

McDaniels Moves On " MaxDenver
Upon signing a two-year contract to become the St. Louis Rams’ offensive coordinator, former Broncos coach Josh McDaniels spoke of the clarity of the task in front of him — something he inferred was lacking in Denver.

Roger Goodell says 'round-the-clock' talks needed in CBA fight - USATODAY.com
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell reflected on Wednesday's meeting with NFLPA chief DeMaurice Smith in an appearance on ESPN on Thursday

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A colleague of mine has a son that was a scout for the Broncos last year. His son quit because he didn’t like McDaniels. His primary complaint was the hours were too long and the pay was not enough.

Sounds like a lot of employees in any industry so take that with a grain of salt.

I am starting to face the fact that Denver is where they are today because we’re cheap…. And a little unlucky over the past four or five years.

Tim Tebow > Kyle Orton

by McGeorge on Jan 21, 2011 8:13 AM MST reply actions

Our team salary has dropped over the past couple seasons

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 21, 2011 1:17 PM MST up reply actions

Every time I hear "we had the 2nd ranked offense under Shanahan"...

I want to scream.

Some people got nothing to be angry about so they're angry about nothing. - Doug Stanhope

I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. - Thomas Jefferson

by MrFNSunshine on Jan 21, 2011 8:20 AM MST via mobile reply actions

lol, there were other points in that link that made it worthy.

Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.

The artist formerly known as ZAPPA

by Tim Lynch on Jan 21, 2011 8:25 AM MST up reply actions

Every time I see 32nd ranked defense in 2010, I want to vomit.

Tim Tebow > Kyle Orton

by McGeorge on Jan 21, 2011 9:51 AM MST up reply actions

This!

"I used to fight the pain, but recently this became clear to me: pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness."--Henry Rollins

"Victory belongs to the most persevering." --Napoleon.

Follow me on Twitter!....Krazy_Kracker42

by Dustin Maul on Jan 21, 2011 9:52 AM MST up reply actions

I should make it clear I don’t miss the Shanny years either. 2008 wasn’t much better than 2010.

Tim Tebow > Kyle Orton

by McGeorge on Jan 21, 2011 9:57 AM MST up reply actions

Same here.

I miss the Elway years!

"I used to fight the pain, but recently this became clear to me: pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness."--Henry Rollins

"Victory belongs to the most persevering." --Napoleon.

Follow me on Twitter!....Krazy_Kracker42

by Dustin Maul on Jan 21, 2011 10:24 AM MST up reply actions

I miss Red Miller and Craig Morten.

by CompUser on Jan 21, 2011 12:21 PM MST up reply actions

As bad as we were here in 2010...

the scary thing is our defense was even worse in 2008…. at least in “success” stats that take into account opponents and things like 1st downs, etc. (I prefer those to fixating on any single stat like yards or points, which are heavily dependent on opponent strength and field position).

By footballoutsiders’ DVOA stat: in 2010 we were 19.6% worse than an “average” defense… compared to 2008 when we were 24.7% worse….. Progress?

Of course, by those same stats our offense went from 2nd in the league (24%) to 15th (6.2%)….

by cjfarls on Jan 21, 2011 2:27 PM MST up reply actions

Which explains the records from both those years

We had the 2nd best offense behind the 3rd worst defense. Therefore 8-8. In 09 we had a mediocre offense behind a pretty good defense (at least the first 6 games). Again 8-8. Now in ’10 we had a mediocre offense behind an awful defense hence 4-12.

by Calikula on Jan 21, 2011 2:38 PM MST up reply actions

Arguing over which D was worse, 2008 or 2010, is pointless. I think we can all agree that both Shanny and McD failed miserably in terms of putting a capable defense together. Neither could draft or make intelligent coaching hires in their final years in Denver.

It’s like picking between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. Which is the way I feel about Cutler and McD or the 2008 staff vs the 2010 staff.

We are just analyzing a bunch of failures.

Tim Tebow > Kyle Orton

by McGeorge on Jan 21, 2011 3:30 PM MST up reply actions

True, and don't disagree

but it is about ANALYZING failures…. which is the key to fixing them.

I do think there WAS progress from 2008 to 2010.

For example, the 2010 suckitude stemmed largely from missing a pass-rush, which to some large extent resulted from injuries to Doom and Ayers. Getting them healthy for 2011 gives hope that even with no other changes, things might look up a bit… and even without them, the team was still 20% more successful (though still sucking) than in 2008. A healthy Doom won’t solve all the problems, but it will help.

Looking further, in 2008 we had Champ plus a bunch of folks who shouldn’t even have been in the NFL in the secondary. While Champ may be slowing down, and Dawk looks real slow, and Goody/McBath can’t stay healthy, at least rest look somewhat functional. The M&M crew never looked even that, and Foxworth looked no better as a multi-year vet than our rookies did last year. The best non-champ DB in 2008 was Barrett, and he couldn’t beat out a marginal/sub-replacement level player like Bruton….

LBs and the D-line were a blackhole of suck both years… not much else to say there. There are few serviceable players (DJ, Woodyard, M.Thomas, BigVick), but also fewer horrible ones (thinking about Webster just made me a bit nauseous)).

Finding a front 7 that can succeed remains a challenge. We’ll need to maximize the talent we have, and bring in some complimentary skills to our players that succeed situationally (Doom, DJ, Woodyard) but struggle in other areas. But overall this seems more manageable now than it did in 2008. Being “good” may be a multi-year effort, but “average” looks very doable for 2011.

Getting to “average” in 2009 was a friggin miracle… and it turned out to be largely a short-term mirage due to far above average health, luck, and lack of scouting tape for opponents to gameplan early season.

by cjfarls on Jan 25, 2011 12:05 PM MST up reply actions

Can someone please explain this reply by Xanders in his Q&A?

First of all, I think the Broncos have had some success with undrafted college free agents. (Linebacker) Wesley Woodyard (2008) was undrafted and now he’s one of our captains. We also have (defensive lineman) Chris Baker (2009) and (offensive lineman) Tyler Polumbus (2008). Our punter, Britton Colquitt (2009) was undrafted out of Tennessee. And Cassius Vaughn (2010) was a big-time special-teams player for us who’s had some success.

His definition of success seems to have set the bar a little low… Admittedly, the chances of truly finding impact from CFAs is a pretty low percentage (since 1993 the pace has been between 5%-8% of any given teams starts for a season have come from undrafted rookies), but even by that standard we are hitting below average.

During that same period (since 1993) teams have averaged 12-13 starters that they drafted and grew at home, 6-7 starters as veteran free agents that they brought in, and 2-3 starters as CFAs that they developed. And these numbers are derived only from the starting 22, not STs contributors, even key ones like Woodyard and Squid. If you were to include Top STs players, the numbers would probably jump significantly, once again putting our two current ‘contributing’ cfas to shame.

Xander’s wants to assure us that building through the draft is the A#1 priority, but a valid guestion is whether they know how to properly measure the results they are obtaining….

So long as there shall exist, by reason of law and custom, a social condemnation which, in the midst of civilization, artificially creates a hell on earth, and complicates with human fatality a destiny that is divine; in other words, and from a still broader point of view, so long as ignorance and misery remain on earth, there should be a need for books such as this.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 21, 2011 8:42 AM MST reply actions 1 recs

Make that

3 contributing CFAs, since I forgot to count Colquitt. But again, the numbers above don’t take into account any STers, not even specialists like kickers and punters, so it stands to reason that if it did, having a onetime CFA punter wouldn’t stand out from the crowd…

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 21, 2011 8:45 AM MST up reply actions

And from the same answer

But you always want to improve, and this year our approach will be a bit different. We will go deeper into interviews of projected free agents at the combine. We are going to have our college scouts start cross-checking the players in February, instead of later in the process in January.

So, our free-agent board will be set earlier and our evaluation process will begin earlier.

I honestly think that might be a typo… How is he getting that starting in February is earlier than January?

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 21, 2011 8:48 AM MST up reply actions

Does the fact that you have a lot of CFA playing on your team mean

you are good at finding talented CFAs or horrible at picking the right talent in the draft?

by ThorpeBroncosfan on Jan 21, 2011 10:23 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs

I agree with you. The fewer the better. I love a good undrafted to starter story as much as the next guy

and heaven knows I’m sure grateful Rod Smith got his chance here but I would much rather hit homeruns in the draft and not have to rely on undrafteds to bail us out.

Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.

by BroncoMath101 on Jan 21, 2011 10:38 AM MST up reply actions

neither

no team really has ‘a lot’ of CFAs…as I mentioned above, the percentage is anywhere from 5-8% of starts throughout a season, so at most around 28 games started for average teams.

You aren’t really targetting more than that, but you don’t want to have less either. CFAs represent the thoroughness of a team’s draft prep, and are a good measure of that, but only if they are selected and retained.

CFAs are like the three bears. You don’t want too many, but you don’t want too few either, since players have to come from somewhere, and there are only so many draft picks and free agent dollars to go around. Historically, teams that are hitting the 5-8% numbers tend to have solid depth. It needs to be just right.

Change your opinions, keep to your principles; change your leaves, keep intact your roots.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 21, 2011 10:40 AM MST up reply actions

Company man

I think Xanders’ response is just reflective of him being a good company man, not wishing to diss his former bosses. The February v. January issue caught my eye too. Doesn’t make sense as written, probably a typo or a mis-statement. But this collaborative style should be productive, especially if all scouts are given air time and decision makers actually go see for themselves, as Elway has stated he and others will do, so any issue of non-definite recommendations from scouts can be put in context by the decision-makers.

by opinion8r on Jan 21, 2011 9:04 AM MST up reply actions

Do you think Xanders

is content with the CFA results they have seen over the past 3 years? The last two crops brought in, and the last three overall have been very large classes, larger than average in the NFL, yet we are pulling a smaller than average sample from those groups to make the active roster, and a significantly smaller than average sample making an impact on offense or defense specifically.

It isn’t that I am harping on CFA acquisitions in particular, but just wondering about what it might say about the width, breadth and depth of our overall draft evaluations.. Furthermore, given the pedigree that was intimated for our staff (I believe X referred to 16 superbowl rings amongst the staff…) perhaps we should remain hypersensitive the the scope of the lens through which these volumes of information will be integrated into the Broncos’ processes, i.e., Xander’s experience. The lens is necessarily constricted early int eh process: it only dilates with further experience….

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 21, 2011 9:40 AM MST up reply actions

Below Comment From Dustin Maul Answers Your Question

I think, as Dustin below points out, that both Shanahan and McD had their minds made up and the scramble for CFAs after the draft left the Broncos with a low % of successful picks because of their “king” mentality (with all their other duties, they simply can’t have time to get that detailed). This should improve with the collaborative approach and the eyes on of the decision makers.

On another point, does anyone have any input on the New Orleans DB coach (Dennis Allen, I think) who was identified as the next interview for Broncos DC?

by opinion8r on Jan 21, 2011 10:02 AM MST up reply actions

He should be interviewing tonight and tomorrow morning with us

“It’s a small league, and there aren’t many secrets,” Payton said. “His reputation has grown, and the word has gotten around. You can see it on film. He’s extremely talented, and another thing about him, he’s an extremely hard-working guy. He’s a guy that’s going to have more of these opportunities down the line.”

Nothing particularly insightful from this piece, but it does highlight his youth and inexperience, going so far as to say he wouldn’t be a fit for the eagles for exactly that reason, given that they just let go of McDermott.

Change your opinions, keep to your principles; change your leaves, keep intact your roots.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 21, 2011 10:10 AM MST up reply actions

I don't know if I follow you exactly

Are you saying the abnormally large CFA classes were a symptom of McD and Shanny being heavy-handed in the draft? (and for the record, I would say we can probably just talk about McD here. Shanny was more hands-off in 2008 than probably any other year).

My problem isn’t so much who they took, as how they seem to have evaluated those efforts. They are hitting below average in a limited, yet important, area of the draft, the deepest and most comprehensive level of evaluations, but X seems to think this is pretty good.

Change your opinions, keep to your principles; change your leaves, keep intact your roots.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 21, 2011 10:17 AM MST up reply actions

Yes

I think a large CFA class is a CYA (cover your butt) effort. Cast your net widely and see what shakes out because you don’t know enough about any of them to make judicious choices, a factor of not putting in enough time to be comfortable with your choices. Besides, you will get a lower % of success if the ones that do pan out are measured against the size of the pool, even if you have the same number of actual picks pan out as another team with a smaller pool. And again, Xanders saying the Broncos have a good staff to evaluate picks, despite past record with many of the same people, just means if there is better direction from the top, as I expect there will be this year, the scouts will perform better. Its like having a player with talent perform poorly with one coach and bust out for another coach. Brandon Lloyd comes to mind in this respect.

by opinion8r on Jan 21, 2011 10:28 AM MST up reply actions

OK, I follow then

It could also be viewed another way, since they were well aware of the gutted nature of the roster. When combined with the “quality reports” point from below, there could have been a confidence level at the backend of the draft, for xander’s and his staff, that wasn’t there during the earlier areas, where a heavyhanded influence was more likely to be felt. Maybe it doesn’t seem as likely, but it is the other side of the coin.

Bottom line, his assessment of the Broncos recent CFA acquisition success, including two players who aren’t with the team anymore (but who did contribute a few starts while they were here…to be fair, mostly just Polumbus), made me want to dig a little deeper into just what qualified as success with CFAs. My problem is still that regardless of actual results and selections the past few years, his method for evaluating their skill in that area seems… off.

Change your opinions, keep to your principles; change your leaves, keep intact your roots.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 21, 2011 10:57 AM MST up reply actions

What is far more off to me

is the apparent talent the broncos acquired in the last couple years, both CFA and draft choices (including pre-McD draft choices), that went out the door durng McD’s tenure (e.g., Hillis and Torain). You can’t blame the scouting staff for that.

by opinion8r on Jan 21, 2011 12:25 PM MST up reply actions

I found this little piece interesting from the Q&A....

Some with the Broncos also have said the scouting staff gave quality reports and did the legwork, but that those reports weren’t always used by Shanahan and McDaniels as decisions were made.

"I used to fight the pain, but recently this became clear to me: pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness."--Henry Rollins

"Victory belongs to the most persevering." --Napoleon.

Follow me on Twitter!....Krazy_Kracker42

by Dustin Maul on Jan 21, 2011 9:41 AM MST reply actions

has all the earmarks of "a mind made up"

Change your opinions, keep to your principles; change your leaves, keep intact your roots.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 21, 2011 9:45 AM MST up reply actions

it's the counterpoint that bothers me...

Both Shanahan and McDaniels likely would dispute that assertion entirely and offer the theory they had to make the bulk of the decisions at times because not enough people in the organization offered strong opinions on players.

i think there’s some meat to this take because shanny did seem to find a sounding board with the goodmans. he also, apparently, had good give and take with jack elway.

where this bothers me is that X-man seems like a nice, bashful fellow who everyone likes to have in the room (he laughs at their jokes?), but by no means—according to anything i’ve heard or read—has a firm spine. deja vu all over again…???

I'm not sugarcoating this.

by oxmouth on Jan 21, 2011 10:18 AM MST up reply actions

Firm spine comment

Where do you get that from?

I see a lot of people here that are making comments like Xanders is weak because McDaniels called the shots. This makes no sense given that Ellis himself stated that McDaniels had the power to do that and Xanders didn’t and that’s that. What was Xanders supposed to do? McDaniels tells him to sign X free agent and Xanders goes out and signs Y?

Look, for all we know he might suck at the job… But let’s not go calling him spineless just because he didn’t somehow overrule his boss.

by scooter17 on Jan 21, 2011 10:21 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs

To be fair, the 'likely' is entirely a Legwold speculation

though it is probably informed. I think experience on one side or the other, and that includes simply experience dealing with others, could be useful.

Bashful is a good word to describe X’s personality I think. Remember his combine interview in 09’? The dude looked like his skin wanted to crawl away and dry heave for a few minutes during the interview. I think a ‘people person’ like Fox, or even Shanny to a degree (though Shanny’s comfort around others stemmed from an ego that wouldn’t quit, and a work ethic to back it up) can empower a Xander’s type of personality to be all it can be.

Change your opinions, keep to your principles; change your leaves, keep intact your roots.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 21, 2011 10:25 AM MST up reply actions

or it could crush his personality altogether. i think shanny might have had that effect on some folks: “you agree with me…. correct?” kind of thing.

but yes, fox is what encourages me about this setup. he seems more likely to listen to X and work toward a consensus than shanny probably would. i’m guessing he’ll have almost the same amount of personnel say that the last two guys did, but it won’t come off that way because of his personality.

also, that combine interview you cited— lol. i think i remember having to look away from the tv because i felt like i was embarrassing him.

I'm not sugarcoating this.

by oxmouth on Jan 21, 2011 10:35 AM MST up reply actions

We get a 4th round pick for Orton ...

Truth is Orton does not have much value. With the right team, one that has a great o-line, good running game, good receivers and a really good defense, Orton could be a great addition. The problem is, how many teams are in that situation? How many teams will the Vikings be competing against to win his service? The problem for Denver is Orton can not cover any flaws, due to his limited athleticism. He does not help a struggling o-line with pass protection due to his es-capability, he does not help a young receiving core by being able to extend the play, defenses don’t fear him enough to give the running game an edge, and he is not the kind of QB who helps a struggling defense either by his ability to score points or take over a game.

This is not a knock on him, it is what it is. Teams looking for any of the attributes that Orton does not have won’t be interested in him or if they are they are not going to pay dearly for him. Many teams, rightly or wrongly will simply lump him together with many of the other veteran NFL experienced quarterbacks on the market. I think the Vikings would be stupid not to pursue him, I just don’t think we will have a lot of suitors to play them off against each other and drive up his value. I think it is a shame it did not work out for him in Denver, loved his team first attitude and his no-nonsense approach to the position. I hope he finds greener pastures and the right situation.

by Keyworthpunch on Jan 21, 2011 10:00 AM MST reply actions 1 recs

you may be right

I will say this: it seems the minnesota fans are quite open to a fourth rounder as compensation, and we know that their version of fair almost exclusively involves more value on their side of the deal. The Broncos started the rumormill months ago by hinting at a second rounder, and we know their version of fairness to be a deal that favors them.

A 3rd rounder falls in the middle, for what that is worth. If I were creating mocks, i would use a 3rd exclusively, simply on the grounds of its ‘averageness.’ I would resist leaning either way, higher, or lower.

Change your opinions, keep to your principles; change your leaves, keep intact your roots.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 21, 2011 10:06 AM MST up reply actions

I’d take a four and five for Orton all day long. Be thrilled about it actually.

Tim Tebow > Kyle Orton

by McGeorge on Jan 21, 2011 3:34 PM MST up reply actions

The risk would be how late in the fourth that first pick ends up being.

basically looking at it like this:

If you go with the “break point” theory (not the movie, though I suppose i should be embarassed for really liking that flick), where actual value groups are established for the draft, resulting in breaks throughout the order, then a fourth and a fifth corresponds with the lowest groupings of players. To wit,

• Group 1 consists of Draft positions 1 through 13 (Top of the first)
• Group 2 consists of Draft positions 14 through 28 (Bottom of the first)
• Group 3 consists of Draft positions 29 through 48 (Top of the Second)
• Group 4 consists of Draft positions 49 through 74 (Second round, to top of the third)
• Group 5 consists of Draft positions 75 through 114 (Third and fourth rounds)
• Group 6 consists of Draft positions 115 through 200(End of fourth round through top of seventh round)
• Group 7 consists of Draft positions 201 and higher (Everybody else)

So the average fourth and fifth is at best a group 5er and a group 6er (for details as to some average expectations for each group over the past 20 years see here.)

So if you can edge the overall group value up a bit, then lower picks, but more of them, becomes a solid strategy. For example a 3rd round pick, somewhere in the 65-74 region, is worth approximately twice as much in player impact potential than a 4th round pick between 115 and 128. Alternatively, history tells us that from about pick 115 to 204 (late 4th through early 7th), impact, especially impact within 3 years, is pretty much the same, with some positional (TE, WR etc) nuance thrown in. So a possible deal could leverage the higher of the two picks, trying to push it into group 4 at the top of the third round (or if the Broncos have any bargaining strength, maybe pushing it into group 3 at the top of the second…unlikely, though). They could ‘compensate’ for that overleveraged upper pick by taking a 5th, 6th, or yes, even a 7th, since expected impact there really isn’t much more significant historically than those late 4th rounders.

Change your opinions, keep to your principles; change your leaves, keep intact your roots.

by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 21, 2011 5:20 PM MST up reply actions

As a fan of both Orton and Tebow

I think the Vikings are going for Vince Young. The teams that will like Orton are the teams that have coaches that played against him and need a quality QB, notably Carolina (Rivera) and Arizona (facing too many newbies at QB). It i snot out of the realm of possibility that the CBA takes a while to get done and teams will have to scramble before the season starts. The Broncos are in a better bargaining position if that happens. They can go into the season with Orton on the roster, even at starting QB while “developing Tebow” and trade Orton before the trade deadline during the season and before his contract expires. I wish Orton well, but I did admire Tebow when he was in college. The power of positive thinking is incredible and Tebow has it, as did Elway.

by opinion8r on Jan 21, 2011 10:13 AM MST up reply actions

Agreed

If the CBA doesn’t get done till TC and pre-season time, teams are going to be much more desperate, and will be willing to give even more if they know their current quarterbacks struggle.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 21, 2011 1:25 PM MST up reply actions

I'm not seeing that anywhere

Almost every site I read, on SBN, SI, NFL.com and ESPN all point to a 3rd being the very minimum. Kolb, a guy with less experience and similar age has an asking price of a 1st. Orton is possibly the best quarterback up for trade or on the FA market, he’s cheaper then almost any quarterback out there in terms of trading cost. Fans around the NFL want him, and according to both NFC and AFC executives, he’s the best bang for your buck. Those are all recipes for a 2nd or 3rd rounder. I see no evidence, other then people speculating, that Orton should go for lower then a 3rd.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 21, 2011 1:24 PM MST up reply actions

I don't think you're too far off on his value...

…. which is why I think he’s definitely worth keeping around this year as an insurance policy.

Having the best backup QB in the NFL is anything but a bad thing, especially when you have a relatively unknown youngster starting, who also happens to like to go head-to-head with linebackers.

I’m praying we get a good offer (3rd plus) for Orton, simply because its the best thing for him and I admire his work and effort…. he’s good enough to start in this league, and I hope he gets that opportunity (if not this year than next)…

but if we don’t get a good offer, my loyalty is with the team and Orton has great value for us in a backup role, even if it is just for 1 year.

by cjfarls on Jan 21, 2011 2:37 PM MST up reply actions