Broncos Payroll + Revenue=Big Offseason

by Da1Truth on Jan 21, 2011 6:23 PM MST

Ive seen many posts lately where everyone is second guessing the Broncos ability to spend money on key free agents this offseason. Before we start to play "GM for a Day" and assume the Broncos cant afford to sign the likes of Owen Daniels or Mercedes Lewis or think that DeAngelo Williams or Chad Greenway is too expensive, lets first take a look at the Broncos financials.

According to Forbes the Denver Broncos were the 10th most valuable team in the NFL last season. While NFL teams dont publish their finances publicly, Forbes typically does a good job evaluating a franchises net worth.

The Top Ten Teams According to Forbes:

Assuming that Forbes magazine is accurate, the Broncos have plenty of money to spend this offseason. Why? The Broncos were the in the bottom 10 in payroll.

The Bottom Ten Teams in Payroll:

NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers Team Salaries	$ 104,329,311
NFL Seattle Seahawks Team Salaries	$ 102,985,710
NFL Atlanta Falcons Team Salaries	$ 96,391,525
NFL Detroit Lions Team Salaries	$ 95,827,117
NFL Denver Broncos Team Salaries	$ 95,599,778
NFL Green Bay Packers Team Salaries	$ 94,018,300
NFL Indianapolis Colts Team Salaries	$ 93,373,915
NFL New England Patriots Team Salaries	$ 92,734,120
NFL Baltimore Ravens Team Salaries	$ 90,713,965
NFL Kansas City Chiefs Team Salaries	$ 83,623,776

The Broncos Payroll was the 6th lowest in the NFL. This is significant not only because we have money to spend but because this also includes the salaries of Elvis, Champ, two high paid QBs (Tebow and Orton) and DJ Williams (the second highest paid player on the defense). That means the core of the Broncos is already accounted for. In the coming years the Broncos will likely have to open up the checkbook for Ryan Clady and Brandon Lloyd will get a bump in pay but other than that, there is plenty of room to add key free agents.

Pat Bowlen's recent letter to season ticket holders guaranteed the Broncos will return to their winning ways. If he is going to keep his promise, he is going to have to start opening up the bank account. If the Broncos want to return to winning they are going to have to find a balance between finding quality players thru the draft and spend money on quality free agents. If you want to look at teams that made quick turnarounds, look no further to a few teams playing in the Conference Championships this weekend. A few years ago the Chicago Bears the worst team in the NFC North, not named Detroit. After opening up the pocket book for Jay Cutler, Julius Peppers, Chestor Taylor and resigning Lance Briggs, they are now playing for a chance to get into the Super Bowl. Now look over at the AFC Championship. It was only a few years ago the Jets were so bad, they were looking for a new coach. After spending money on Jason Taylor, LT, a pro-bowl O-Line, Bart Scott, Derrell Revis and paying a rookie QB All Pro money, they are now a win away from their ultimate goal.

Lets assume that Bowlen is going to spend like he is a top 10 team. That would put his payroll around $125,000,000 (+/-) or equal to that of the Chicago Bears. With the Broncos currently around $95,000,000 that means they have around $30,000,000 to play with this off-season.

What does this mean? If Bowlen is truly committed to winning. He will do whatever it takes to sign key FA that will help the Broncos win now. Thus, an offseason that includes Chad Greenway at $5-$6MM/yr, DeAngelo WIlliams at $6MM/yr, Owen Daniels at $6-$7MM/yr, Nnamdi Asomugha at $12MM and Charles Johnson at $6MM/yr isnt that far fetched.

If the Cleveland Browns can have a payroll at $132,000,000 and not be in the top 10 in net worth, the Broncos can afford to go after whatever it takes to get back into the playoffs.

Lets hope Bowlen is telling the truth when he says he will return to our winning ways. Going after some instant contributors will go a long way in injecting excitement into the fan-base.

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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Comments

I hope we can bring in some vets, especially on both lines

But it is interesting to note that Carolina has had a higher team salary for the past 10 seasons, Carolina has had a higher team salary then Denver did 6 out of 10 times. So those who say Fox is going to like being on a team that likes to spend money, history is against that. But I think Bowlen is going to pull all the stops out, or I hope he does, because this team needs players, especially on defense, either through trade, FA or the draft.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 21, 2011 6:38 PM MST reply actions

You forget...

Fox had little to do with off-season acquisitions at Carolina. That was a major reason behind his falling out, he didn’t agree with some of the personnel decisions they were making (like letting Peppers walk).

by Da1Truth on Jan 21, 2011 6:43 PM MST reply actions

Also the owner wanted to move in a new direction

And he didn’t want to fire Fox, so he just let him finish his contract.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 21, 2011 6:57 PM MST up reply actions

True Dat...

by Da1Truth on Jan 21, 2011 7:12 PM MST reply actions

Looks like pretty good company to me

7 of the bottom 10 are playoff teams. To me this shows it is smarter to spend the money on a real GM and the personnel department (and Xanders aint it).

by BroncosB on Jan 21, 2011 7:43 PM MST reply actions

Xanders

is the reason why the Broncos are in great financial shape. McD is the reason why the money was spent on many of the wrong players. Yes no?

by VABroncos on Jan 22, 2011 8:40 AM MST up reply actions

What?

They were at it at the same time. Xanders was promoted by McDaniels when the Goodmans’ were let go. It’s not like Xanders has done anything to save money since McDaniels was fired. Xanders can’t be saving the money while McD is spending it.

by BroncosB on Jan 22, 2011 2:27 PM MST up reply actions

Xanders? Really?

Even if he didn’t make any of the decisions, something I doubt, he stood idly by as they happened. He deserves just as much blame for where we are as McD in my opinion.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 22, 2011 3:14 PM MST up reply actions

I agree with you 100% Da1Truth

I’ve seen these numbers early last season. It made me feel at ease about Xanders doing his job to cut dead money from the payroll.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk

by KaptainKirk on Jan 21, 2011 9:19 PM MST reply actions

Eye-opening

Bottom 5 teams in player salaries all made playoffs? Wow, this is totally counter-intuitive. And puts a lie to the idea that we need to spend big, too.

Oh, and franchise worth does not translate into free cash. A franchise may be very valuable due to playing in a big market and rich traditions leading to a large fan base in and out of market. But if said fan base is unhappy and disgruntled this year, tickets will remain unsold and revenues will fall. Still a valuable franchise, but no money to spend. What do you do, go to a bank and mortgage your team to cover operating expenses?

by si_ice on Jan 21, 2011 9:34 PM MST reply actions

Now divide the numbers by wins for each team

The Patriots paid the least amount per victory.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk

by KaptainKirk on Jan 21, 2011 9:50 PM MST up reply actions

Actually a lot of business..

Borrow against their net worth. i can almost assure you the the Broncos cash flow isnt to the point where they dont have any debt. Its call the Optimum Capital Structure. The balance of debt and cash that creates the most value for a company. Thus, if needed they can and likely do borrow to pay operating costs. Especially since the revenue is seasonal.

by Da1Truth on Jan 22, 2011 10:45 AM MST up reply actions

Why should Bowlen take your advice

Maybe he should spend like the Packers — who are reasonably likely to beat the Bears.

Seriously though – I’m not sure the Broncos are gonna (or should) do much in free agency this year. We are not one or two steps from the Super Bowl. We are one step from the #1 pick in the draft.

by yibberat on Jan 21, 2011 9:37 PM MST reply actions

Big difference, lol

The Packers have arguably, if not hands down, THE best scouting department in professional football, and they simply get great value with nearly every draft choice. They are basically 100% home grown…Not literally, but look at all of their starters, and it’s hard to find a guy that wasn’t drafted BY the Packers. Just a great franchise.

follow me on Twitter!!: @MHR_Sayre and @BigTenBlogger

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by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 21, 2011 11:26 PM MST up reply actions

Agreed,

they are the model to follow. Patience is also key in building through the draft.

by topnation on Jan 21, 2011 11:33 PM MST up reply actions

This is the NFL...

Every team is one or two steps away from the playoffs. Ask the Chiefs who just last year had 4 wins (hmmm…). Or ask the Packers who just two season ago were picking in the top 10 (5 wins) …now they might go to the Super Bowl. In the NFL, every season is different. We are just as close to going to playoffs (with a few changes) as we are picking number 1 overall in the draft.

by Da1Truth on Jan 22, 2011 10:47 AM MST up reply actions

Packers went to a 3-4 the same year we did

Only difference is that they understood the critical positions in a 3-4 defense. They identified the most-likely-to-succeed draftees at those positions. And they used high draft picks - and didn’t even reach for the talent. Nose tackle – BJ Raji. Rush linebacker – Clay Matthews.

In that same draft – with roughly the same 1st round picks – and 3 more 2nd round picks:

We chose an RB and reached for a DE who no one projected as a rush linebacker. Oh — and we gave up our following year’s #1 pick to reach for a CB (who isn’t even on our team anymore and who was traded for a 7th round TE). And then reached for a S. And then reached for a blocking TE.

Some teams have a clue. Some teams have to buy one — and still end up paying top-dollar for an old has-been NT.

Every year – every draft – it is the same old story. Crappy teams get worse because they don’t know how to draft. Good teams stockpile talent.

by yibberat on Jan 22, 2011 12:31 PM MST up reply actions

Nice post, but I humbly and respectfully disagree with its fundamental implications and assumptions

Lets assume that Bowlen is going to spend like he is a top 10 team. That would put his payroll around $125,000,000 (+/-) or equal to that of the Chicago Bears. With the Broncos currently around $95,000,000 that means they have around $30,000,000 to play with this off-season.

Those are pretty big assumptions. Since 2000 (which is as far as USA Today goes back), the Broncos have never spent more than $103M and you’ve got us spending $130M – about 20% more than we’ve ever spent before. You placed us spending the 5th most in the NFL next year. But since 2000, the Broncos payroll averages 20th in the league. And through the last five years, we averaged 22nd in the league. In fact, we’ve only broken inside the top 15 two times.

So it’s a pretty big assumption to think we’re going to spend SO much more many than we ever have in the past just because Mr. Bowlen said in a letter that he wants to win and will do whatever it takes. Last year’s spending wasn’t an exception to the rule. Spending the $125M you suggest would be the enormous exception.

The Broncos Payroll was the 6th lowest in the NFL. This is significant not only because we have money to spend but because this also includes the salaries of Elvis, Champ, two high paid QBs (Tebow and Orton) and DJ Williams (the second highest paid player on the defense). That means the core of the Broncos is already accounted for.

Your implication here is that the salary of these core guys is already included in last year’s figures and that we shouldn’t account for a spike in payroll costs. But Kyle only cost about $3.2M last year. This year he’ll cost $8.4M. Doom cost us under $4M last year. This year he’ll cost $14M. Tebow didn’t take a signing bonus last year so his salary was ultra cheap. This year he’s due a roster bonus of around $7M.

So that’s already a $20M plus spike for the guys you mentioned as “already accounted for”.

So I get the point behind your post, but I don’t see it the same way. I’m sure we’ll hit up free agency and maybe grab a big ticket guy even. But the notion that we’re going to spend 20% more than we ever had before seems a little naive. Signing multiple, huge FA contracts isn’t the Denver way either. And saying the Broncos are currently around $95M and that they’ve got $30M to play with severely discounts reality and the recent changes to key contracts and key personnel.

If we want a big name FA, our best chance, IMO, is to trade Kyle Orton and use the 8.4M we save.

by Rodney A on Jan 21, 2011 9:43 PM MST reply actions

I did get them from USA today....

It said 2010 so I can only assume that they are accurate.

Rodney, to use 2003 numbers…come on man? Every team increases spending every year. If anything you count for inflation. But to go back nearly a decade and reference spending…really? Just as salary cap numbers increase every year, so do teams spending.

I can assure you Bowlen has the money to spend on winning. Im not saying that Bowlen should go out and get 5 or 6 big ticket free agents…but we have enough money to spend on a some quality players.

Im saying we have the money to go after a top notch TE and RB, thus focusing on the defense during the draft. We can likely afford a top tier defender as well or two as well.

by Da1Truth on Jan 22, 2011 10:52 AM MST up reply actions

No, that last paragraph is not what you were saying

You were saying we’ve got $30M “to play with”. You were suggesting we would have a $125M dollar payroll even though we’ve never even spent $103M. And if you’re going to harp on me for being thorough and going back ten years… then just look at the last five years where we averaged 22nd in payroll spending. And if you don’t like that, just look at the last three years. No matter how you toss it, the idea is solid… Denver’s average payroll expenditures rests in the back half of the league.

I’m glad you can “assure (me) Bowlen has the money to spend”. But again, history tells us that the spending you suggest is unlikely at best. And no, every team does not increase spending every year… And certainly not by the 20%+ that you suggest us doing this year. As for inflation, it has absolutely zero to do with rankings. Inflation has nothing to do with the Broncos ranking an average of 20th in terms of payroll over the last ten years.

Oh, and as for your 2010 numbers, they’re still wrong. I don’t say that to be bitter or rub it in, only so that you can accept it and move on.

by Rodney A on Jan 22, 2011 1:14 PM MST up reply actions

P.S.

I used your 2010 numbers because I couldn’t find reliable ones. But the 2010 numbers you used are the exact numbers and ranking order of what USA Today has listed for 2008. So I think your numbers are probably wrong. Just a hunch, though.

by Rodney A on Jan 21, 2011 9:49 PM MST reply actions

I think he got those numbers

Here

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk

by KaptainKirk on Jan 21, 2011 9:55 PM MST up reply actions

Thanks

Ya, I saw that site when I was looking for 2010’s numbers also. But those numbers are 2008’s numbers according to USA Today. So one of the two sites is wrong. I’m just figuring USA Today is probably the correct one. But again, just a hunch.

by Rodney A on Jan 21, 2011 10:00 PM MST up reply actions

I think the only accurate way to find out what our 2011 payroll is currently at..

woule be to go through on like Rotoworld and add up each of our players’ salary and roster bonuses. Lots of work, though. Then we’d probably have to throw in estimates in another section for people we expect to keep but that don’t have a current 2011 salary, like Champ and maybe Harris.

But that’s the only way I could foresee getting a decent bead on where our expenditures for 2011 currently sit.

by Rodney A on Jan 21, 2011 10:05 PM MST up reply actions

I was thinking the same thing.

But I don’t think I have enough time right now to attack that job thoroughly. It would definitely be a good project.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk

by KaptainKirk on Jan 21, 2011 10:17 PM MST up reply actions

Just went through the roster

Sans the reserve/future contracts and dead money (I have NO clue where it’s coming from, or what players it is either), Denver’s payroll for 2011 if the season started tomorrow and they signed/drafted nobody would be roughly $89.509 million.

follow me on Twitter!!: @MHR_Sayre and @BigTenBlogger

Also, if you ever want to lose at Madden or NBA 2k games, you can find me on XBOX at SayreB111589

by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 22, 2011 12:13 AM MST reply actions 2 recs

Wow. Nice work and thanks!

So I guess if we signed Champ for the projected $10M/yr we’d be hovering right around $100M. Last year’s #2 draft pick got about $14M per year. Hope that rookie wage scale goes into effect! Rec’d

by Rodney A on Jan 22, 2011 1:03 AM MST up reply actions

thanks Sayre

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk

by KaptainKirk on Jan 22, 2011 8:29 AM MST up reply actions

Thanks Sayre...

That being said, I thinks its fair to assume we can resign Champ and go after a few Free Agents.

by Da1Truth on Jan 22, 2011 10:54 AM MST up reply actions

No doubt

follow me on Twitter!!: @MHR_Sayre and @BigTenBlogger

Also, if you ever want to lose at Madden or NBA 2k games, you can find me on XBOX at SayreB111589

by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 22, 2011 12:38 PM MST up reply actions

Just to be sure you understand correctly...

You do get that our salary including Champ and our 2nd round pick would stand at about $114M, right? 10% more than we’ve ever spent before… before signing the rest of the rookies or any free agents.

Thus, your theory that “an offseason that includes Chad Greenway at $5-$6MM/yr, DeAngelo WIlliams at $6MM/yr, Owen Daniels at $6-$7MM/yr, Nnamdi Asomugha at $12MM and Charles Johnson at $6MM/yr isnt that far fetched”… is incredibly far fetched.

Sure, we could trade Orton and save 8.4M, cut a few more guys, and IF the rookie scale goes into effect that would help alot… but in no stretch of the imagination should we take away from any of that to mean that we’ve got anywhere near “$30M to play with”.

by Rodney A on Jan 22, 2011 1:20 PM MST up reply actions

and our ~~2nd round pick~~ #2 overall pick

by Rodney A on Jan 22, 2011 3:10 PM MST up reply actions

Need you be reminded...

There is a very good chance the likes of:

-Daniel Graham
-Brian Dawkins (retired)
-Jamall Williams
-Ryan Harris
-Laurency Maroney
-Anyone else Fox doesnt see as a fit in his sytems

Will NOT be on the payroll next year.

There is plenty of money to spend.

by Da1Truth on Jan 23, 2011 10:02 AM MST up reply actions

Great Post DaTruth

Great info and I agree that Denver can make a splash in Free Agency.

I know that John Elway is going to be very aggressive. He wants to win now. He talked about how he was checking on all available Free Agents right now , just waiting on a new CBA.

by Broncosfansd on Jan 22, 2011 10:30 AM MST reply actions

Thanks SD..

I agree. Thanks to Xanders thrifty ways, we have some money to spend. Both Bowlen and Elway said they are committed to wining now. In order to do so, we need to make a splash in FA. As a fan, I dont care what the payroll is, as long as management is showing a commitment to win. Are we going to get every top FA? Heck no…but we shouldnt be afraid to go after the top FA in areas of need (TE, RB, LB)

by Da1Truth on Jan 22, 2011 10:58 AM MST reply actions

IMO, this article proves you SHOULDN'T spend on FA

Unless you’re only a couple players away, this article just proves to me that you shouldn’t spend on FAs. Most of the bottom teams in payroll are top teams in the NFL, with 7 out of 10 making the playoffs!

by PThero40 on Jan 22, 2011 12:39 PM MST reply actions

+1

The only FA adds I can see this year are 1) a veteran O-tackle presence to provide depth and QB insurance and 2)a long-term NT if Broncos don’t have the ability to develop/scout the position in the draft.

Filling any other holes with FA’s is simply the most expensive patch a team can buy.

by yibberat on Jan 22, 2011 1:05 PM MST up reply actions

It can be

There is an adage, Draft for quality and use FA for need. Do this long enough and the problem takes care of itself. With 6 draft picks, you can’t expect to make a major improvement when the only the first two picks are expected to make an impact contributing. And for the 32nd ranked defense, it will take more than six players to improve. You don’t have to go all-in like the Jets have and the Bears did with FA this year, but they are in the playoffs and our team is at home watching. It helps if a budget is held to. One example: Daniel Graham. He will cost the Broncos $4.2 million in salary (I think there is a roster bonus too). The Broncos could afford to go after Marcedes Lewis to replace him. That would bring a younger pass catching, so-so (IMO)blocking Tight End, but he would cost a lot more since he is in the top tier talent level for FA TE’s this year. But, bring in someone at the next tier, like Matt Spaeth for instance. He could be obtained for probably half that amount and he is younger, bigger and a huge body for blocking an in the end zone, where a lot of his targets have been. This way, an upgrade in youth and talent is achieved cost effectively. Plus, a proven player is added, rather than an unknown entity(draft pick).

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk

by KaptainKirk on Jan 22, 2011 1:31 PM MST up reply actions

FA is why we are in the jam we are in

FA are, as you say, proven/known. There is little hidden upside (and the exceptions are pretty predictable). There is still plenty of downside (injury, over-the-hill, player whose stats were a product of their last team, etc). The team that gets them is the team that is the most willing to overpay for what is known.

And the true cost is hidden. The cost of locking up a roster slot with a particular player. That eliminates a team’s ability to get rid of excessive depth at one position in order to get critical depth at another. Or to have a couple of identifiable roster slots at the margin to pick up surprise releases by other teams that can improve your team.

The Broncos already have too much TE depth – and are going to have to get rid of one TE slot in 2011 in order to get critical depth at tackle. And no surprise, it’s always the same, FA advocates want to add yet another player at a position that already has too many slots allocated to it.

Which is going to require a second TE to be dropped — one for the new TE add and one for the tackle depth need. So which two TE’s are you gonna drop and allow some other NFL team to pick up for peanuts? A proven still top-tier blocking TE (who we would likely have to eat contract $ with even after someone picks them up)? Or the numerous young TE’s who we have already wasted ungodly draft slots on – and who may actually have real upside – but we haven’t seen it because they haven’t really played yet?

Teams that play the shiny new free agent game always throw away either money or their future. And nothing is dumber than to do so when really nothing is at stake in 2011.

by yibberat on Jan 22, 2011 2:59 PM MST up reply actions

Actually

poor scouting and drafting has put the Broncos in the position they are in.
the media may know nothing and the fans may know nothing, but you would think the professional football minds would know how to evaluate talent.

As for the tight ends, my evaluations are here in the first paragraphs

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk

by KaptainKirk on Jan 22, 2011 5:08 PM MST up reply actions

+1

There is an adage, Draft for quality and use FA for need

Nicely said. And nice point on Graham. 4.2M is alota cheddar we could use toward a younger FA TE.

by Rodney A on Jan 22, 2011 3:25 PM MST up reply actions

Yes a shiny new free agent TE

Oh wait. Wasn’t Daniel Graham the last shiny new free agent TE? And what makes you think we don’t have to pay him anyway for 2011 (his last contract year)?

by yibberat on Jan 22, 2011 3:45 PM MST up reply actions

If a player doesnt play into the third or fourth game of the season

(meaning on the roster) his salary isn’t guaranteed. Guaranteed money is mostly money paid up front, as in signing bonuses. It also includes “Likely to be earned” (LTBE) bonuses, i.e., yardage numbers or catches etc. that a healthy player could easily reach. also roster bonuses and workout bonuses. but if you don’t play, you don’t get paid. Guaranteed contracts aren’t what they seem to be. It’s an Agent’ PR term to get more client and act like a big shot to the media.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk

by KaptainKirk on Jan 22, 2011 5:03 PM MST up reply actions

also

the TE is only an example to use the same allotment of money to upgrade the position with a younger player.

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk

by KaptainKirk on Jan 22, 2011 5:10 PM MST up reply actions

In theory

In practice, a FA knocks a rookie/young player off the roster. Proven trumps unproven.

And then everyone says — “why can’t we draft players who can make the roster?”

Answer — because we keep pulling in no-upside FA’s who knock the rookies off the roster.

by yibberat on Jan 22, 2011 6:31 PM MST up reply actions

"why can’t we draft players who can make the roster?"

don’t we have that now?

Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk

by KaptainKirk on Jan 22, 2011 8:30 PM MST up reply actions

The numbers and list he listed as 2010 are actually from 2008

by Rodney A on Jan 22, 2011 1:22 PM MST up reply actions

Rondney I hear you.

How many times are you going to say that? I think I heard you the first 5 times. Thanks to Sayre we have the new cap figure sub $90 MM…giving us even more room to play with. That being said…i got my numbers here: http://www.altiusdirectory.com/Sports/nfl-salaries.php

by Da1Truth on Jan 23, 2011 10:15 AM MST reply actions

I understand from your tone that you find my repeated comments annonying

I hear you. And yet, I don’t care. The reason I repeat them is to combat the spin you put into your replies. When you say something like “the new cap figure (is) sub $90M… giving us even more room to play with”, you’re playing word games and trying to come off as if you were right all along.

You now know that last year’s #2 choice cost $14M per year and that Champ would cost $10M per year. So you know that with just those two players our payroll will be at $114M… w/out signing ANY outside FAs… w/out signing Ryan Harris… w/out including any other rookie contracts. In essence, without major cuts and/or a rookie scale that goes into effect this year instead of next year, we’re ALREADY looking at spending far more than we ever have in the past.

So stop trying to imply that you were right all along. You were incredibly wrong by saying we have $30M to play with. You were incredibly wrong when you said it’s not far fetched for us to bring in Greenway, DeAngelo, Daniels, Asomugha and Johnson. It’s incredibly wrong to suggest Bowlen WILL increase spending to 5th in the league when he’s averaged 22nd over the last five years and 20th over the last ten years. And even the numbers you based this article off of were completely wrong (first you said you got them from USA Today, then you said from altiusdirectory… either way, they’re wrong).

The point in my repetitive replies isn’t to sound smart or be mean or belittle. It’s to express my views so that after each time somebody reads your spin that they understand you were wrong. It’s not important for me to win the debate. It’s important to me to stop the echo chamber from starting. It’s important that people don’t read this and think we really have 30M to “play with”. It’s important that they don’t start acting and “mocking” as if they believed you when you said all those wish list guys were a real possibility.

I’m very appreciative of Sayre for going through our current contracts. But don’t spin that $90M figure. It doesn’t mean we can’t have any FAs, but it certainly doesn’t mean we’re in good shape. Far from it.

by Rodney A on Jan 23, 2011 11:06 AM MST up reply actions

How does being near the bottom of the NFL in spending mean we are in bad shape?

Or as you said…“Far from good shape”

Its simple math…if you are in the bottom of the league in spending and towards the top in revenue…YOU HAVE MONEY TO SPEND! Its just a matter of IF the Broncos want to spend it.

Thing to keep in mind:

There WILL be a rookie wage scale implemented THIS YEAR. Thus the 2nd overall pick will be nowhere near last years total. Since teams wont sign their rookies till after the new CBA is reached.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81581842&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Champs current contract is $9MM/yr…$1MM more isn’t going to be a big hit.

There are going to be numerous Broncos that are current cap hits and wont be around next year. (Graham, J. Williams, Dawkins, etc)

The phrase “Far Fetched” means…not likely

The phrase “Isn’t as Far Fetched” means, in essence, still not likely but more believable…DOES NOT MEAN REAL POSSIBILITY…as you put it.

Why wont Bowlen increase spending when, as you cleverly pointed out, he has been at the bottom in spending over the last 10 years? Where has that gotten us? One playoff win. Yeah…he might want to rethink his spending habits. Especially since the draft hasn’t been an asset to us over that time frame.

And thanks for pointing out my numbers are wrong…for the 7th time…I really dont care, any website or source you look at…STILL has the Broncos at or near the bottom in spending…so if you feel more comfortable using accurate number go ahead. Thanks to Sayre, the Broncos are even in BETTER shape to spend since they are below $90MM in payroll…further reinforcing my point.

Still curious to how we are in bad shape (according to you) even though we are tops in the league in revenue and towards the bottom in spending?

by Da1Truth on Jan 23, 2011 1:52 PM MST up reply actions

OK.. one more and we'll agree to disagree :)

Still curious to how we are in bad shape (according to you) even though we are tops in the league in revenue and towards the bottom in spending?

You’re trying to make a correlation where there isn’t one to make. High revenue and low payroll doesn’t necessarily equal more spending, especially when it goes against what history has shown us to expect..Over the last five years our payroll has only fluctuated between 94M-102M. And now you project it to be $125M. That’s a steep jump and a bold prediction.

There WILL be a rookie wage scale implemented THIS YEAR. Thus the 2nd overall pick will be nowhere near last years total. Since teams wont sign their rookies till after the new CBA is reached.

This is why I’ve been so frustrated in this, um, debate. You say you know for sure the wage scale will go into effect this year. But nobody knows that. Everyone agrees there will be one in the new CBA, but nobody ever said it’s going to be in effect for the upcoming season. Having a new rule doesn’t mean the rule has to go into effect from the previous draft. And most often times, new rules don’t go into effect retroactively. Those rookies will already be drafted NFL players by the time the CBA is signed. The Unition has a duty to protect them. The frustrating part of your assumption is that you then link an article to prove your theory… An article that’s a year old and says what I just said, that nobody knows when it will go into effect. And PS… that proposal was rejected.
“The next negotiations are set for Tuesday. Neither side has said when a rookie wage scale might be implemented.

One more example of misinterpretations: “Champs current contract is $9MM/yr…$1MM more isn’t going to be a big hit.”
Sayre’s numbers didn’t include Champ, because Champ isn’t under contract and he doesn’t have a set wage for 2011. So you don’t $1M to Sayre’s $90M dollar figure… you add $10M. With Champ included our payroll would currently sit right where it’s been for the last five years… before FAs and draftees.

Oh and hanks for the lesson on the term far fetched -) Feel free to use any term you like… Bringing in Greenway, DeAngelo, Daniels, Asomugha and Johnson is ludicrous.

To close, my point has never been that we won’t bring in FAs. My point has always been that we’ll need to make cuts to do so. My point has always been that we can’t bring in all those guys you mention and that we don’t have $30M to play with. And my point has always been that we’re not going to spend anywhere near $125M. We can both be happy that we will bring in free agents and our team will get better. But we need to make cuts to do it.
Somebody will be right, the other wrong. We shall see. And with that, I’ll move on and let this go.

by Rodney A on Jan 23, 2011 9:58 PM MST up reply actions