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Denver Broncos' John Fox Is Staying the Course on Offense! Why?

(Photo by Justin Edmonds/Getty Images)

     Denver's offense took a lot of criticism in 2010 -- inability to sustain drives, poor red zone performance, no running game, the list goes on and on. There was a fair amount of speculation that when McDaniels was fired that things would change. Mike McCoy was given the responsibility for play calling and his choices were described with adjectives like "conservative" and "vanilla." There seemed to be a general feeling that Denver's offense was nothing to write home about.

     When John Fox was hired, there was some speculation that -- as is often common with new head coaches -- the Broncos would see their second large turnover in coaching staff in two years. Yet, lo and behold, Fox has declined to make major changes in the offensive coaching staff he inherited. Why is this?

After the jump we'll take a look at some possible reasons for Fox's choice to "stay the course" with the offense.

Star-divide

Let's start by comparing the 2010 offensive coaches to what we know of John Fox's staff thus far:

2010 2011
Offensive Coordinator Mike McCoy Mike McCoy
Quarterbacks Ben McDaniels Adam Gase
Wide Receivers Adam Gase Tyke Tolbert
Tight Ends Bob Ligashesky Clancy Barone
Running Backs Eric Studesville Eric Studesville
Offensive Line Clancy Barone Dave Magazu
Other Brian Callahan Brian Callahan
(Coaching Assistant) (Offensive Quality Control)



     So what's up with Fox leaving the offensive staff intact with two exceptions. It should be noted that he did choose to move Adam Gase from the wide receivers to the quarterbacks and Clancy Barone from the offensive line to the tight ends. Other than that, he left the staff alone. Is Fox seeing something in them that is less obvious to us as fans?

     Let's first take a look at some offensive statistics. These statistics represent Denver's ranking in various categories in relation to the rest of the NFL. These rankings have been drawn from espn.com, nfl.com and nflgsis.com. I have chosen to include the rankings from 2008 (pre-McDaniels) as a point of comparison. Highest rankings in any given category are indicated in italics. Improvements over the previous year are indicated in bold.

Offensive Stats 2008-2010 (ESPN.com, NFL.com, NFLGSIS.com)

2008 2009 2010 2008 2009 2010
Total Yds 2nd 15th 13th Total 1st Downs 2nd 15th 14th
Yds/Game 2nd 15th 13th Rush 1st Downs 14th 17th 26th
Passing Yds 3rd 13th 7th Pass 1st Downs 3rd 16th 6th
Pass Yds/Game 3rd 13th 7th 1st Downs by Pen 2nd 12th 11th
Rushing Yds 12th 18th 26th 3rd Down %age 3rd 22nd 28th
Rushing Yds/Game 12th 18th 26th 4th Down %age 29th 26th 29th
Points 16th 20th 19th Fewest Penalties 6th 14th 18th
Points/Game 16th 20th 19th Fewest Penalty Yds 20th 18th 28th
Turnover Ratio 31st 7th 28th


     We can see that the 2008 offense ranked higher in virtually everyone of these categories than the 2009 & 2010 ones did. There were three areas that the 2009 offense held higher rankings: Turnover ratio -- the offense turned it over less than it's 2008/2010 counterparts, Fourth Down Percentage and Fewest Penalty Yards. Minor things, yest, but important to the flow of an offense. Fewer turnovers helps keep drives going and helps to take a little pressure off the defense, for example. A point of greater importance, IMHO, would be the fact that the Broncos improved in seven of the seventeen categories from 2009 (the first year of McDaniels staff and offensive scheme) to 2010 (a year beset by injuries), including Yards/Game, Passing Yards, Points andTotal First Downs.

2008 2009 2010 2008 2009 2010
Passing Yds 3rd 13th 7th Rushing Yds 12th 18th 26th
Completion %age 14th 14th 26th Rush Yds/Att 3rd 17th 24th
Pass Yds/Att 9th 16th 7th Rush TDs 14th 22nd 12th
Pass TDs 7th 16th 15th Fewest Fumbles 17th 6th 27th
Fewest Ints 24th 7th 7th Fewest Fum Lost 29th 16th 30th
Fewest Sacks Allowed 1st 15th 23rd
Fewest Sack Yds 1st 12th 23rd
QB Rating 11th 15th 14th


     There were a couple of surprises in this set of statistics. I would not have expected to see that the 2010 offense ranked higher in Rushing Touchdowns than either of the other years. While the 2008 offense ranked higher in the overwhelming majority of the categories, it can be seen that 2010 offense made improvements in the majority of the passing categories from 2009. It is open to speculation and debate as to whether or not the running game might not have shown a similar improvement had the offense not had to deal with injuries to the offensive line and running backs. There might be some justification for a slim optimism based on the results of the rushing game in the last eight games of the season as compared to the first eight. Again, though, this would be open to debate.

     The third set of statistics is drawn from nfl.com. It includes only data from 2009 and 2010 since the site does not have the same data posted for the 2008 season. The data ranks the performance of the offensive line in several categories: Experience (the number of combined career starts for the two tackles, the two guards and the center with the most starts in the given season), First Downs, Negative (rushing plays that resulted in a loss of yardage), 10+ Yard Plays (rushing plays that resulted in a gain of ten or more yards), Power (the percentage of rushing plays called on third or fourth down with two or less yards to go that resulted in a first down or a touchdown; this includes rushing plays called on first or second down with goal to go from the two yard line or closer). The highest ranked season is indicated in bold for each category.

2009 2010 2009 2010 2009 210
Exp 10th 31st Fewest Sacks 15th 23rd Fewest QB Hits 8th 8th
Rush Left FD 7th 28th Rush Mid FD 24th 5th Rush Right FD 19th 31st
Rush Left Neg 8th 17th Rush Mid Neg 22nd 11th Rush Right Neg 11th 26th
Rush Left 10+ 4th 22nd Rush Mid 10+ 14th 5th Rush Right 10+ 17th 31st
Rush Left Pwr 14th 26th Rush Mid Pwr 30th 15th Rush Right Pwr 11th 28th


     The interesting thing about this set of statistics is that it would appear to support the contention that the scheme was not effective, given the fact that the rankings regressed in the majority of the categories. Yet, it should also be noted that the rankings in runs into the middle improved in every category -- which flies in the face of the complaint that all Denver did was run up the middle and failed when they did so.

     I'd like to offer up one final set of statistics. These look at Red Zone Percentage, Goal to Go Percentage and Time of Possession. The best ranking is indicated in italics, improvement in bold.

2008 2009 2010
Red Zone %age 16th 23rd 13th
Goal to Go %age 10th 26th 1st
Time of Possession 26th 14th 18th


     This set of statistics, drawn from NFLGSIS.com came as a complete surprise to me. I would not have expected the 2010 offense to rank in the top half of the league in Red Zone Percentage and I would never expected the 2010 offense to rank first in Goal to Go Percentage.

     What we can see in the statistics is that while the 2009 and 2010 offenses did not reach the same levels of achievement attained by the 2008 offense, there was improvement in a great number of areas, despite repeated shifts in personnel along the offensive line and players attempting to return from injury. By the same token, however, the statistics -- in and of themselves -- do not provide a compelling case for the retention of the offensive coaching staff. So we must ask what other reasons might Fox have for keeping the staff intact? Let's take a look at the coaches to see what other factors Fox may have considered. 2011 position is listed first, 2010 position is listed in parentheses.

Offensive Coordinator: Mike McCoy (Offensive Coordinator)


     Mike McCoy has just completed his eleventh season as an NFL coach -- the last two of which were served on the Broncos' staff. Prior to coming to the Broncos, McCoy worked for seven years for -- you guessed it -- John Fox and the Carolina Panthers. McCoy was an offensive assistant (2002), quarterbacks coach (2002-08) and passing game coordinator. He played a role in three playoff appearances, two divisional titles and an NFC championship. He was part of a Panthers staff that led the team to a tie for the second best record (56-40) in the NFC (seventh best in the NFL) from 2003-08. He helped Jake Delhomme post four seasons with over three thousand passing yards, eighty-nine touchdowns and a Pro Bowl appearance. In 2007, when injuries forced the Panthers to start four different quarterbacks, with no quarterback starting more than three games in a row (Delhomme -- W, L; Carr -- W, L, W; Testaverde -- W, L; Carr -- L; Testaverde -- L, L; Carr -- L; Testaverde -- W, L; Moore -- W, L, W), McCoy helped the Panthers become the first team in ten years to have four different quarterbacks win at least one game. He also guided rookie Matt Moore (a college free agent) to wins in two of his first three starts.

     During McCoy's first two years with the Broncos, he assisted Kyle Orton in recording two 3000+ yard seasons. In 2009, while serving as the Broncos Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks Coach, he helped Orton set career highs in nearly every passing category and match a franchise record with ten games in which Orton had a passer rating of 90.0 or better. He guided Orton to a fourth place ranking in yards per game (281.0) in 2010. He helped guide Ryan Clady and Brandon Marshall to Pro Bowl appearances. He was a part of Knowshon Moreno's rookie season in which Moreno earned All-Rookie honors and led the league's rookies in rushing yards (947), yards from scrimmage (1160) and total touchdowns (9). McCoy was calling the plays for Tim Tebow in the Broncos final three games of 2010 -- a set of games in which Tebow recorded the highest passer rating (82.1) among the eight rookie quarterbacks who started during that same span.

Tight Ends Coach: Clancy Barone (Offensive Line Coach 2010)


     Clancy Barone has served on NFL staffs for seven seasons, two of those with the Broncos. He started as an assistant offensive line coach for the Atlanta Falcons in 2004. This was followed by a position as Atlanta's tight ends coach (2005-06) where he played a role in the development of Alge Crumpler, who -- during that span -- earned two Pro Bowl berths, totaled the third most receiving yards by a tight end in the NFL (1657), tied for third in touchdown catches (13), blocked for a rushing attack that led the NFL with an average of 171.4 yards per game. Crumpler also set Atlanta single-season records in 2005 for receptions by a tight end (65) and receiving yards by a tight end (877) while under Barone's tutelage.

     Barone next held a position as the tight ends coach for Denver's divisional rival -- the San Diego Chargers (2007-08). Barone helped further the achievements of the Chargers' Antonio Gates. Under Barone's guidance, Gates earned consecutive Pro Bowl appearances, was named to the 2000s NFL All-Decade Team, tied for first in the NFL for touchdown receptions by a tight end (17), ranked third in receiving yards by a tight end (1688), tied for fourth in receptions by a tight end (135). During Barone's first year with San Diego, Gates also set a career high of 13.1 yards per reception -- this ranked second among NFL tight ends that year.

     In his first year with Denver (2009), Barone helped Daniel Graham cement his reputation as one of the best blocking tight ends in the league and assisted Tony Scheffler in earning a fourth place ranking among tight ends in yards per reception (13.4).

Quarterbacks Coach: Adam Gase (Wide Receivers)

     Adam Gase is entering his seventh season as an NFL coach, and his third with the Broncos. Gase entered the league in 2003 when he took on the position of scouting assistant for the Detroit Lions. From 2005 to 2007, he served as the Lions assistant coach in charge of running backs and quarterbacks, with 2007 being in charge of just the quarterbacks. During the first two years of that period, Gase was mentored by both Steve Mariucci and Rod Marinelli. He also worked under the direction of offensive coordinator Mike Martz. In 2007, as the quarterbacks coach, Gase worked with NFL veteran Jon Kitna. Under Gase's guidance, Kitna set a record as the quarterback with the third highest passing yards total in Lions' history, became the ninth player in NFL history to post consecutive 4000+ yard seasons, and ranked sixth   in the NFL in passing yards in 2007. In 2008, Gase was recruited to work as an offensive assistant for Mike Martz in San Francisco. During that year, the 49ers' offensive unit had sixty-four plays that went for twenty or more yards -- as a point of reference, the Broncos averaged sixty-four plays per game in 2009.  San Francisco's passing attack ranked sixth in the league in fewest dropped passes.

     As Denver's wide receivers coach (2009-10), Gase had the opportunity to work with two receivers who both earned Pro Bowl appearances -- Brandon Marshall and Brandon Lloyd -- it may be remembered that Lloyd led the NFL in receiving yards (1448) in 2010.

Running Backs Coach: Eric Studesville (Running Backs/Interim Head Coach)


     Eric Studesville will be entering his fifteen NFL season, and his second with the Broncos. Studesville began his coaching career as the offensive quality control coach for the Chicago Bears (1997-2000). He became the running backs coach for the New York Giants in 2001, a position he held until 2003.  While in New York, Studesville worked with Tiki Barber, who -- during that span -- recorded consecutive 1000+ yard seasons (2002, 2003), set the second highest rushing total in Giants history (1387 in 2002), rank in the top ten in yards per rush and total rushing yards, led all NFC running backs with 210 receptions, twelve 100+ yard rushing games and placed fifth in the league with combined yards from scrimmage (5103).

     From New York, Studesville moved on to become the running backs coach for the Buffalo Bills (2004-09). In Buffalo, Studesvilles' running backs amassed five 1000+ yard rushing seasons (Marshawn Lynch - 2, Willis McGahee - 2, Fred Jackson - 1). Marshawn Lynch logged fourteen 100+ yard rushing games under Studesville's tutelage. Studesville helped McGahee during his rooking year to beocme just the fourth rookie in franchise history to reach 1000+ yards, tie a team rookie record of thirteen touchdowns and rush for 100 yards in each of his first three starts -- only the third running back since the 1970 league merger to do so. Studesville helped McGahee continue his success in his sophomore year by posting another 1000+ yard season on his way to becoming the fastest Buffalo running back to reach 2000 career rushing yards. In 2007, Studesville assisted a second Bills rookie -- Marshawn Lynch -- to reach 1000+ yards in his rookie campaign, leading all AFC rookie running backs and averaged an NFL seventh ranked 85.7 yards per game. In 2008, Studesville became the Bills' Running Game Coordinator. In that position he guided Lynch into becoming the BIlls first Pro Bowl player in five years after rushing for a second 1000+ yard season.

     Studesville served as Denver's Running Backs Coach in 2010. Studesville guided Knowshon Moreno to a 779 yard, 4.3 yard per attempt, 5 touchdown season -- despite Moreno's missing much of training camp and three games due to injury.

Offensive Quality Control Coach: Brian Callahan (Coaching Assistant)


     Brian Callahan will be entering his second season as an NFL coach, both of them with the Broncos. Callahan served as an offensive assistant coach for the Broncos in 2010 and took over the duties as the running backs coach for the final four games when Eric Studesville was tapped to serve as the interim head coach. He came to the NFL after working from 2006 to 2009 as an assistant coach at the high school and collegiate levels. His duties included breaking down game video, aiding the coaches in the weekly game preparation, directing the defensive scout team and providing the coaching staff with a break down of the upcoming opponent's special teams unit.

So Why Is Fox Staying the Course with the Offensive Coaching Staff?


     Why is John Fox choosing to retain five of the seven offensive coaches from the 2010 season? Several possible reasons spring to mind:

1)The Broncos offense showed improvement in several areas from 2009 to 2010 -- most notably in the passing game. It is a matter of pure speculation as to whether or not we might have seen a similar improvement in the running game had the Broncos not had to deal with injurie,  and the recovery from those injuries, to Moreno, Buckhalter, White, Clady, Kuper and Harris. Fox might be of the belief that retaining some of the coaching staff will continue that process of improvement.

2)Fox inherited an Offensive Coordinator with whom he had coached for the first seven of his nine years in Carolina. It would not require too much of a stretch of the imagination to believe that McCoy will have a good sense of what kind of offense Fox will want to run. It would not be a large reach to think that it will not take McCoy all that long to reconnect with the thinking processes of the coach who brought him up through the ranks of assistant coaches. When McCoy was on staff, Fox led the Panthers to three winning seasons, one .500 season, and three losing seasons, three divisional titles and one NFC Championship.

3)Fox inherited three position coaches (Barone, Gase and Studesville) with reasonably solid coaching resumes. It should be noted that Fox moved two of the three (Barone and Gase) back to coaching the positions which make up the strongest part of their resumes. He also returned Studesville to his area of expertise -- running backs. Perhaps the perceived lack of quality coaching in 2010 had less to do with the Broncos having bad coaches than it did with having excellent position coaches coaching the wrong positions.

4)Fox may have wanted to sustain some continuity on the offensive side of the ball in order to more fully concentrate on improving the defensive side of the ball. Limiting the number of changes to the coaching staff on the offensive side, going with an offensive coordinator with whom he had previously worked might have been a move to free up time for Fox to work on the defense.

5)Fox may have seen more potential in the offense than is commonly perceived by the fans. I would assume that he was aware of the success experienced by the passing game and may have adopted a stance that if he can keep that aspect of the offense more or less intact and give some attention to improving the offensive line and the running game, then the offense will be adequate to his plans. He may also be wanting to provide some coaching stability in order to continue the development of Tim Tebow as Denver's quarterback of the future.

6)Finally, Fox may be planning for the possible fallout from the lack of a CBA. Depending on how long it takes the league and the players' union to get a new CBA signed there could be some significant issues facing not only Denver but the other thirty-one teams as well. If I've understood the things that I've been reading about the lack of a CBA, the following things would not occur as they would in a normal year: Free agency -- this would not occur, Player trades -- teams would not be allowed to make player trades, Organized Team Activities (OTAs) -- would not be allowed without a CBA, Training Camp -- would not occur since players cannot participate in training camp without signed contracts. It could well be that the Broncos would enter the 2011 season with essentially the same roster they had in 2010, with little or no time to practice in the offseason. Fox may well believe that it would be beneficial -- in case the CBA should not be signed until very near the beginning of the season -- to have coaches and players who are familiar with one another.

     These are just a few thoughts as to why John Fox may have chosen to stay the course with the offensive coaching staff. I do not know about you, but they make a certain amount of sense to me and only time will tell whether or not this was the most beneficial path to follow.

Comment 110 comments  |  17 recs  | 

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Well I think staying the course is a bit off

He’s either brought in new people or changed the positions about 50% of the staff. So while not a complete makeover, there is still major change. I really enjoyed the statistics, especially about our scoring, I knew we were doing better then most thought, but I didn’t think we were doing that well. I am looking forward to a offensive line that will be more experienced and have more time working together. I am not expecting the same passing offense of McDaniels, no one should expect Tebow to get close to 4,000 or even 3,500, yards or anything like that, we should also expect a more balanced run to pass ratio.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 25, 2011 4:40 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

Some good points, Max

I guess I’m not seeing the coaching shifts — with the possible exception of Gase — as major. Barone started as Denver’s TE coach, was shifted to OL coach and now has been moved back to TE coach. Studesville is simply going back to the position he held prior to being named interim coach.

I agree about some of the stats being kind of surprising.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 7:45 PM MST up reply actions  

I suppose you are right

More shifting then anything else, so there will be familiar faces, which is a big part of keeping the team unified.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 25, 2011 8:46 PM MST up reply actions  

The Obvious Answer

… to your question – “Fox has declined to make major changes in the offensive coaching staff he inherited. Why is this?”

As I have said repeatedly is that Elway is going to be the offense master mind. He “hired to his weaknesses” – defense. Moved into the old HC office, and I think – like He and Shanahan under Dan Reeves – that JE and McCoy are going to design the offense, come up with game plan outlines, and McCoy is going to do the play calling.

This would say that we are not going to have a typical Fox like – run, run, and run again offense. It will be balanced.

Elway is comfortable with the offense coaches, and he will be the head of the offense, and in effect, McCoy will report to him.

- If you're so certain, maybe you're just proving the Dunning-Kreuger Effect

by Puesto on Jan 25, 2011 4:46 PM MST reply actions  

I seriously doubt Elway will be on the field

Let alone making small personnel changes. Elway’s job isn’t that, he may change it, but Fox is the HC, not Elway, this is Fox’s team, Fox will pick the running backs, the wide receivers, the type of offense used. At least from what I’ve read on NFL.com and Denver Post, Elway won’t be dealing much with positional reviews and such, but will mostly be focused on the bigger picture things. If you have a link to any information saying otherwise I’d love to read it.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 25, 2011 4:57 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Woody Paige Last Week

“Elway answers to Bowlen; Ellis answers to Bowlen; Xanders answers to Elway; Fox answers to Elway.

I think it’s like most businesses. In case of a tie on a football player for the last spot on the team, Fox makes the decision. In case of a tie among Elway, Xanders and Fox about the club’s No. 1 draft pick, Elway breaks the tie. In case of a decision about a third-round draft pick, Xanders makes the choice after input from scouts, personnel people and Fox. In case of a trade arranged by Xanders on Kyle Orton, Fox and Elway will be told; they’ll both make their cases, and Elway will make the final decision.

The theme out there is “consensus.” Let’s say that Elway believes the Broncos should trade the No. 2 pick overall to get two lower first-round picks, it will be Xanders’ job to make it happen. If he can, he’ll take that to Elway and Fox. If Fox says no and Xanders says yes, Elway will make the decision. I doubt they’ll agree on everything, but I think they’ll come to an agreement, and if they can’t, Elway will make the call."

Thus, if they think Moreno (sp?) is good enough, they (JE) won’t try to bring in Williams from NC. Receivers, same thing. The OL is the key, and Mags is the new OL coach.

The offense will be bade from two things: Personnel pick-ups or retentions – personnel – and a play strategy designed to compliment the personnel they have or acquire. I just don’t think Fox is going to be that involved in the offense. Many teams have done it this way before. Again, I quote Paige:

“Ignore the cost issue for a moment (which I’m sure would be an issue in reality). But why does a team need a single head coach? Why not two? Get the two top coordinators and have Head Coach Offense, Head Coach Defense. Let the GM and Football Ops VP handle partitioning out the budget for personnel. Special teams can be split, or handled by a separate guy. There’s really no interaction between the two sides of the ball for the same team anyway. Fight tradition. Why don’t teams stop assuming one person has to control both operations? Get the best guys for each side, and give them autonomy to run their specialty.
— Dan O’, Crozet, Va.

The Chicago Cubs once tried revolving managers. A few of the coaches each got a shot at managing for a while during the season. It didn’t work. But nothing the Cubs do works.

Co-coaches would not be a success in the NFL. Even so, nobody would try it. What most teams have is an offensive coach who lets the defensive coordinator run the entire defense, or the other way around.

When Red Miller was in Denver, Joe Collier had total control of the defense. Dan Reeves always let his defensive coordinator run the defense. Mike Shanahan liked to control both, as Josh McDaniels did. McDaniels had a brief time as a defensive coach with the Patriots. He let Mike Nolan run the defense, then interfered as the season went on, and they wanted no part of each other at the end of 2009. Most coordinators have autonomy.

Plus, it’s tough enough for me to talk to one head coach. I don’t want to deal with co-coaches. And who do you blame for the losses? “Coach X is an offensive genius, but Coach Y can’t coach a lick. Let’s get another head coach-defense. Coach X hates Coach Y, and Coach Y thinks Coach X’s mother can’t cook.”

I give up. No chance, unless you’re put in charge. And that ain’t happening. But, then, in my first year as a columnist, I told the Wright Bros. they couldn’t both fly."

Several teams leave offense up to the OC and the Defense is a product of the HC. JE is not just a figure head, nor a front office guy in the traditional sense. I think he will have the say in the offense, much like Al Davis does. Overall, the offense has my stamp on it.

I think Fox and Elway have been together on this from day one.

- If you're so certain, maybe you're just proving the Dunning-Kreuger Effect

by Puesto on Jan 25, 2011 5:30 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Please

dont mention Al Davis and John Elway in the same sentence lol. Its almost worthy of a flag

by Calikula on Jan 25, 2011 8:22 PM MST up reply actions  

LMAO

My bad.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 10:13 PM MST up reply actions  

lol

that was at puesto not u brian

by Calikula on Jan 25, 2011 10:56 PM MST up reply actions  

PS -

I think JE will be on the field some, like a Jerry Jones at Dallas, etc. He is there for major football decisions, morale, enthusiasm, and overall strategy. I’m not saying he will be the play caller. They seem to have confidence – Fox and JE -in McCoy, who learned a lot from McD.

I’m just saying the personnel and offensive outline, or vision, not necessarily each game plan, will have JE’s stamp on it.

- If you're so certain, maybe you're just proving the Dunning-Kreuger Effect

by Puesto on Jan 25, 2011 5:33 PM MST up reply actions  

I tend to agree with you on this one Puesto

I’d say that Elway knows his offense, wouldn’t you?

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

"Gear down there big shifter This is the "No Bull" review man…" a total Lebowski-esque one liner from Sadaraine, whether he realizes it or not - comedic gold.

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 26, 2011 2:35 AM MST up reply actions  

I'm going to respectfully choose to disagree with
Elway is going to be the offense master mind.

I think Elway has a clear place in the chain of command: Bowlen at top. Ellis & Elway reporting to Bowlen. Fox & Xanders reporting to Elway. The assistant coaches report to Fox.

From everything I’ve read, Elway will have final say when there is not a concensus between Fox & Xanders. From what I can see, and please correct me if I’m misinterpreting your point, much of your position hinges on this quote from Woody Paige:


Several teams leave offense up to the OC and the Defense is a product of the HC. JE is not just a figure head, nor a front office guy in the traditional sense. I think he will have the say in the offense, much like Al Davis does. Overall, the offense has my stamp on it.

You may well be right, or Elway could be taking a route similar to Davis in which he chooses which players to bring to the team.

Given the fact that — to the best of my knowledge — Elway has never served as a coach at any level, I have a hard time believing that he will suddenly be directing the offense over Fox & McCoy.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 7:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Elway's too smart for that.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA

by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 25, 2011 8:33 PM MST up reply actions  

I also remembering Elway say in his press confernce he wasn't going to be the coach

And he made the point to make that distinction. I’m sure he’ll be active, but I believe he won’t run the team, how they practice or who plays, that’s all Fox.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 25, 2011 8:47 PM MST up reply actions  

Ya, he's reiterated that in multiple interviews

Sounds to me, and like you alluded to, Elway is making a point to tell anybody willing to listen that he has no intention of being a behind the scenes puppet master. He’s a big picture guy and will likely be involved in personnel decisions where there’s a tie between Xanders and Fox, and he’ll likely be involved in big ticket items like an Orton trade and an extension for Champ Bailey. I doubt he’ll even get much involved in deciding who’s going to be a Bronco at #2.

by Rodney A on Jan 25, 2011 8:54 PM MST up reply actions  

Agreed

Like Brian said, big picture stuff and dealing with tough situations between Xanders and Fox.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 25, 2011 9:15 PM MST up reply actions  

Brian & Maxwell

I think we’re pretty much agreeing. I never meant to say he was going to be the coach. But, from what I quoted, etc. I think he will be an integral part of the picking the players. Obviously McCoy and Fox have a history together, and are comfortable.

Also, this comports with what Pinkster said below. If, say, we are 1-1 then I think Elway, Fox and McCoy are going to come to a consensus as to why we lost, and what to fix, move around or change. That is not a coach, but a hands on front office. Walsch did this for 2 or 3 years in SF. So, I’m not saying coach.

- If you're so certain, maybe you're just proving the Dunning-Kreuger Effect

by Puesto on Jan 25, 2011 9:59 PM MST up reply actions  

Thanks for the clarification and I'm in full agreement with you
If, say, we are 1-1 then I think Elway, Fox and McCoy are going to come to a consensus as to why we lost, and what to fix, move around or change.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 10:15 PM MST up reply actions  

Okay, thanks for the clarification

I realize Elway will be hands on in some major personnel decisions, it just seemed you were saying he would be controlling how the offense was run or be active in coaching the players.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 25, 2011 11:15 PM MST up reply actions  

This

is simply ridiculous.

Elway is going to be the offense master mind

by CamboBronco on Jan 26, 2011 9:24 AM MST up reply actions  

Oops

Sorry BS, I see you already addressed this. It was just too out there to not reply immediately.

by CamboBronco on Jan 26, 2011 9:31 AM MST up reply actions  

Nice article, but...

I think everyone is making much too big a deal out of who each position coach is and whether or not each particular coach is particularly liked of disliked.

To paraphrase Michael Dean Perry – Owners own, Managers manage, Coaches coach, and Players play.

A great coach is nothing more than an excellent teacher and motivator. It comes down to the players on the field, period. There is nothing in a particular position coach’s resume which would make him appear to be better or worse than anyone else unless he can prove his level of teaching motivational ability . The fact that the coach had star players on the team with which he was employed appears to be how the typical fan judges the value of position coaches. Star players come from management of the team, not the coaches.

As an example of what I speak, I teach self defense, a style named Kuntao Silat. In my opinion and that of many others, I am both an excellent teacher and motivator. BUT, if my student does not have the athletic, physical, or mental attributes, when he or she is attacked on the street they will get his or her butt kicked and/or be killed- no doubt in my mind whatsoever.

Give me a management team which provides the real horses, in this instance Broncos with the proper athletic, physical, and mental attributes as opposed to castoffs from other teams’ waiver lists and I will worry about coaching later.

by Pinkster on Jan 25, 2011 4:55 PM MST reply actions  

Comports

..with what I am predicting with regard to J Elway. +1 on your thoughts.

- If you're so certain, maybe you're just proving the Dunning-Kreuger Effect

by Puesto on Jan 25, 2011 5:35 PM MST up reply actions  

Good Observations

I’d like to take it a step farther:

Owners own – and unless they’re Al Davis, they let their managers and coaches run the team.
Managers manage – they work in concert and consensus with the coaching staff to bring in the pieces the team needs to be successful.
Coaches coach – they teach, they plan, they develop, they motivate, they mentor, they guide and they evaluate.
Players play – after they have been taught, developed, motivated, etc. it is up to the players to execute the game plan laid out by the coach.

As a teacher, I appreciate your example from your own life. I would like to suggest though, that even an athlete with the proper athletic, physical and/or mental attributes without great coaching will have a hard time developing into a cohesive whole which can play at a high level on a consistent basis. A fellow teacher and I are teaching elementary and middle school students the rudiments of football. What we’ve often encountered is that it is not always the team with the “best” athletes that wins, but the team with the players who have learned how to play together as a team.

I agree that the onus is on the Front Office to provide the coaching staff with the proper players to win football games. The onus is on the coaching staff to make the best possible use of the players provided. This is why I would differ with you and suggest that whether or not the right coaches are coaching the right positions — in other words the quality of the coaches — is an important facet of Denver’s success/failure.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 8:00 PM MST up reply actions  

Great Post...

These were my thoughts exactly. Even if McCoy doesn’t stick with the same McDaniels game plans and offensive schemes, he can still keep the offensive terminology intact. People don’t realize that this aspect alone goes a long way in providing some continuity for our players heading into next season. Our offense definitely struggled at times last year (I think it’s a trickle effect from the offensive line on down), but they are soooo young and inexperienced, we couldn’t realistically expect them to be firing on all cylinders game after game. The offense has a ton of potential moving forward, and I’m very pleased with the way Fox handled this aspect of the team, although my real concern remains on the defensive side of the ball…

Half-man, half-bear, and half-pig. I like giving my two cents, but no one ever takes me cereal.

by manbearpig5000000 on Jan 25, 2011 5:21 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

Plus, remember

McCoy worked as an offensive assistant for Fox for seven years. I’m inclined to believe that he may well have the ability to blend the best of what he learned from McDaniels with Fox’s vision for the offense.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 8:02 PM MST up reply actions  

I hope so as well

Fox is a conservative, steady offensive coach, and while I really believe that style can win games, I’ve also enjoyed McD’s offense, so hopefully McCoy can blend the best of the two.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 25, 2011 8:49 PM MST up reply actions  

Ditto to you both, Brian and Max +1

- If you're so certain, maybe you're just proving the Dunning-Kreuger Effect

by Puesto on Jan 25, 2011 10:00 PM MST up reply actions  

Agreed, we are in desperate need of some balance on offense, I hope McCoy can deliver.

If we actually have a good running game (hopefully with more zone blocking implemented), it will be pretty awesome to see Timmay running the bootleg from those zone stretches or some play action passes where the defense actually has to respect the run. Like I said, I think it all trickles down from the O-line, and although you didn’t go into it in your post, the Dave Magazu acquisition could be the wild card here.

Half-man, half-bear, and half-pig. I like giving my two cents, but no one ever takes me cereal.

by manbearpig5000000 on Jan 25, 2011 10:13 PM MST up reply actions  

Great Post Brian Rec'd

My one disappointment is not being able to get running backs coach Jim Skipper. Perhaps Studesville will do better but I thought the tandem of Magazu and Skipper would be a great hire. Oh well, what do I know. I also understand that having an offensive and defensive analysts ( I don’t recall the exact titles ) are something that we have not had before. Sounds like that position can add information big time.

by McManJoe on Jan 25, 2011 5:35 PM MST reply actions  

O and D Quality Control Guys (analysts, as you say)

These were defined a couple of weeks ago on MHR by someone who did some research and, from what I read, they are the nuts and bolts of watching film for the opponent 2 or 3 weeks down the road, to capsulize it, give film clips and such, so the OC, DC and HC have the edited, succinct data to start the plan for that weeks game. Which makes a lot of sense.

It would seem the HC OC and DC don’t have time to filter through all the raw data on, say, the Eagles, if they have a game coming up in 12 days against them. They need it pared down and summarized.

- If you're so certain, maybe you're just proving the Dunning-Kreuger Effect

by Puesto on Jan 25, 2011 5:47 PM MST up reply actions  

You could well be right on what a dream the tandem of Magazu and Skipper would have been.

I think Studesville will pan out. He has a good history of developing running backs into impact players. I think he was somewhat hamstrung this year with Moreno, Buckhalter and White all going down to injuries. It’s hard to develop a running back if you can’t have him healthy enough to participate in trainings, practices and games. I think we’ll get a good feel this next year as to how effective or ineffective Studesville can be.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 8:04 PM MST up reply actions  

He still is probably coming.

FIRE JOE ELLIS!

ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!

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by boydy2669 on Jan 26, 2011 7:09 PM MST up reply actions  

Brian...

Oh, by the way…. MAN you did a lot of research and tabulating. Thanks!!

- If you're so certain, maybe you're just proving the Dunning-Kreuger Effect

by Puesto on Jan 25, 2011 5:49 PM MST reply actions  

Yqw, and thank you for the kinds words

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 8:04 PM MST up reply actions  

Thanks Brian

my education continues unabated. Rec’d.

You can be dumb... that's ok! There are many dumb people.
You can be an %&*hole... that's ok! There are many of these as well.
Unfortunately you cannot be both...
Ok... prove me wrong.

by BeachBronco on Jan 25, 2011 6:26 PM MST reply actions  

Thanks

My education continues apace too. I like writing these articles because it forces me to learn more along the way too.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 8:05 PM MST up reply actions  

Is the new offensive line coach a proponent of the zone blocking scheme that was so successful for so many years here? That is my biggest concern … that the running game, run blocking included, took such a huge hit under McD and his staff. Sort of OT, but I’ve heard on 3 different fronts over the last few days that Fox isn’t going to start out with Tebow as his QB. Any substantiation to any of those reports?

My fantasy hockey team sucks. But at least I'm not a Red Wing sellout.

by Bob in Boulder on Jan 25, 2011 6:30 PM MST reply actions  

Pure gut speculation

I am 50/50

You can be dumb... that's ok! There are many dumb people.
You can be an %&*hole... that's ok! There are many of these as well.
Unfortunately you cannot be both...
Ok... prove me wrong.

by BeachBronco on Jan 25, 2011 6:42 PM MST up reply actions  

I read somewhere

..that mags did zone block in NC

- If you're so certain, maybe you're just proving the Dunning-Kreuger Effect

by Puesto on Jan 25, 2011 7:23 PM MST up reply actions  

yes

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by super7 on Jan 25, 2011 7:13 PM MST up reply actions  

yes – he does ZB running. Not pure (100%) like Houston does, but most of the runs are zone in design.

In re Tebow, who knows. We’ll have to wait and see, but I’ll be speechless if Tebow isn’t named starter in the preseason.

If I was coach, I’d not say anything other than ’there’ll be competition’ until I could move Orton, regardless of whether that’s before or during the season.

I’ll be floored if Orton is wearing a Broncos helmet when the games matter this year for a multitude of reasons which I DO NOT want to get into again because it’ll hijack this post like it always does.

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by super7 on Jan 25, 2011 8:04 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree with the other comments here

Fox has said he will run zone blocking, but will make adjustments according to what the opposition shows.

The only three comments I’ve heard about Tebow/Orton is that Fox has said he has not yet decided on who will be the starter, that Tebow has a lot of work to do to be a great QB, and the front office would entertain an offer of a 2nd round draft pick for Orton.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 8:08 PM MST up reply actions  

Were any other

coaches able to produce the zone blocking scheme with as much success as Shanahan

by Calikula on Jan 25, 2011 8:25 PM MST up reply actions  

Alex Gibbs

Did it. NOT Shanny. I don’t remember when Gibbs left, because I moved from Colo. in 2007. But, I do remember Gibbs for many years was the best in the business – OL.

I read really good things about Mags. OL is more important than most people realize. But,t here was a really good, in depth on OL on MHR last week.

Mags is who really has me excited. And, I’ll just have to take MHR fans words of praise for our young OL players. They seem to have the size. I think their failures may have been OL coach. There is a difference in techniques they teach, as well as power block vs zone block.

- If you're so certain, maybe you're just proving the Dunning-Kreuger Effect

by Puesto on Jan 25, 2011 10:04 PM MST up reply actions  

When Gibbs went to Atlanta

they immediately developed a dominant running game, something like 164 yards a game. Offensive lineplay excels wherever he goes.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Jan 25, 2011 10:55 PM MST up reply actions  

ah

thanks for answering my question

by Calikula on Jan 25, 2011 10:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Good point. Gibbs was probably the MVP of the first Super Bowl win, imo. What an amazing job he did year after year.

My fantasy hockey team sucks. But at least I'm not a Red Wing sellout.

by Bob in Boulder on Jan 26, 2011 9:19 AM MST up reply actions  

I think you missed the biggest reason to avoid big changes

We’ve got a really young offense. We can expect some improvement just from them getting experience. You also don’t want to change it up on them because they take longer to learn.

by Fan in Exile on Jan 25, 2011 6:37 PM MST reply actions  

Very good point

Thanks for adding that in.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 8:09 PM MST up reply actions  

Not sure

I’m not sure, but I read that Bill Walsch SF 49ers started them, moving into the video, computer age, and pretty much everyone does them now. I read about a few OC’s and DC’s who have 6 or 8 or 10 years in coaching, some HC’s and lots of them started out in that capacity. Sounds like they put in 60-70 hour weeks and learn everythiing, like making sausage…. from the ground up.

- If you're so certain, maybe you're just proving the Dunning-Kreuger Effect

by Puesto on Jan 25, 2011 7:22 PM MST up reply actions  

Yes & No

Both Callahan (Offensive Quality Control) and Rodgers (Defensive Quality Control) were with the Broncos last year. Both were simply called “coaching assistants” — Callahan on the offensive side, Rodgers on the defensive.

My guess is that they will be doing the same sorts of things they did last year — see the summary of Callahan’s responsibilities in the original article and change it a tad to apply to Rodgers. :)

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 8:12 PM MST up reply actions  

Fantastic breakdown

The post is fairly long, but I really liked how you condensed a lot of pertinant information about each coach into a relatively short space. A learned a lot of new bits and pieces about most, if not all of them. And I came away a little more optimistic about one of them.

Number 7: All of your points on why Fox kept the offensive staff largely intact were sound theories. I especially thought that #4 and #7 hit home in a manor that most overlook. I’d say it’s not just possible, but instead it’s very likely that offseason activities, rookie contracts and player trades will be held up substantially. It’s also very likely, IMO, that the NFL won’t move the Super Bowl to a later date. Meaning, no matter whether they cut a couple games, shorten preseason and OTA’s or whatever combination of all of the above… it seems very likely that the season will have a rushed beginning. Continuity in that case will be very important.

Number 4: Tinkering with the offense is one thing, but breaking it to rebuild it is another. You don’t want to spend your time micro managing new coaches along with a bunch of new players when you’ve got a laughable defense to fix. By keeping the offensive coaches intact, Fox should be able to sort of convey his vision to McCoy for what changes need to be made and how much more rushing we’ll want to do, etc.. And then he can focus on the defense.

Great post, rec’d

by Rodney A on Jan 25, 2011 7:46 PM MST reply actions  

Thanks Rodney

Maybe I should have you vet my articles — you were way more succinct about it than I was. :)

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 8:13 PM MST up reply actions  

My opinion

Fox will have some say over the offense, but he won’t call plays. And please don’t talk yourself into the idea that Denver’s offense is going to crawl into a time machine & go back to the early Reeves era.

Fox’s teams often threw more than they passed. In fact they ran more than threw only twice.

When I looked at the historical ypa stats for the running game, Magazu’s arrival was a revelation. Like many teams, he’s not an exclusive power or zone gamer, but he runs a lot of the zone plays a lot, like the stretch play and he is a huge one-cut & go coach. Carolina’s running game was ranked #24 in 2006. In 07 they were ranked 14 with 17 TDs, in 08 they were ranked 3rd with 30 (THIRTY) Tds, and in 09 they ranked 3rd again with 18 tds. Last year they ranked 18th with only 13 tds. But that’s understandable when opposing defenses can key on the run game becaus ethe team can’t throw to save its life. Magazu’s had them averaging around 4.5 ypc.

Where Carolina’s had trouble and inconsistency is the passing game. The stats are uneven year to year. We can probably attribute that to Delhomme’s inconsistencies, Steve Smith’s health issues, and a revolving door at WR #2, WR #3, and TE (their TE’s have been subpar – King caught 46 balls in ‘07, Mangum caught 34 in ’04, and the rest of the TE’s under Fox have caught 26 or less balls). Aside from ‘04 and ’05 Delhomme was middling and error prone. In the last 2 years, the passing game for the Panthers has been ineffective and 2010 was a disaster. They only scored 9 passing td’s. Maybe that has somethin to do with McCoy heading west after the 2008 season.

With McD’s passing game tutelage and combining it with his knowledge base from carolina, I think Denver may have an up and comer in Mike McCoy when it comes to calling the passing game and the plays. He had job offers this year to coach elsewhere, but when Denver hired Fox, McCoy stayed. McCoy knows what McD succeeded in doing AND what he failed in doing. ANd now he’ll have more say and with Fox as his boss (again) you can expect a more balanced attack. I doubt we’ll see denver only run the ball 30-some-percent of the tiem. It’ll be in the 40’s. ANd I would be VERY surprised if DeAngelo Williams doesn’t garner SERIOUS consideration. In 2006, he only got 120 carries and in 2010, he was injured and only got 87 carries. Aside from those years (2007-09) he grabbed 5.0, 5.5, and 5.2 yards per carry. He still grabbed 4.1 ypc in ;06 and ’10. Pretty impressive.

With Magazu & his line coaching and with McCoy and his pass game coaching, I think Denver is set up for success on offense.

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by super7 on Jan 25, 2011 7:56 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

Thanks for the additional insight, Super

I didn’t spend a lot of time analyzing Carolina’s stats over a long period of time. This was helpful.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 8:15 PM MST up reply actions  

Nice point on Fox's teams passing more than people think

Carolina’s running game was ranked #24 in 2006. In 07 they were ranked 14 with 17 TDs, in 08 they were ranked 3rd with 30 (THIRTY) Tds, and in 09 they ranked 3rd again with 18 tds. Last year they ranked 18th with only 13 tds. But that’s understandable when opposing defenses can key on the run game becaus ethe team can’t throw to save its life.

2007 when they made that jump was really when DeAngelo made his jump. And 2010 when they made that fall, was really when DeAngelo took his fall. So was it Magazu, or was it DeAngelo Williams responsible for those changes? One thing that’s always worried me about Fox is that other than those three years of DeAngelo, he only had a top-20 running team one time. Once. Needless to say, I was very happy when he kept McCoy and other notable offensive coaches. All signs so far point to the idea that he’s not going to micro manage the offense. Which is good, because his offenses haven’t been very good.

by Rodney A on Jan 25, 2011 8:31 PM MST up reply actions  

In 08 and 09, they were ranked 3rd

We can’t associate fox completely with the run or pass game. He’s a head coach. Not the OC. You can link Magazu and DeAngelo Williams more directly w/ it. 2010 was an unmitigated disaster for Carolina’s offense. Willaims still picked up 4.1 a carry in a year when the opposition regularly stuck 8 and 9 in the box. For perspective, Knowshon has run for 3.8 and 4.2 ypc in his first 2 years. And Williams only got 6 games in in 2010 and he was just getting warmed up. He even had 2 games in a row where he averaged more than 6 ypc right before he got hurt.

Denver isn’t going to be a carbon copy of Carolina. We can’t extrapolate anything anyone’s ever done and figure out what we have until the results are in when it comes to this offensive staff, but like I said, it seems to me that we have the best case scenario wehn it comes to the running game with Magazu and the best we can do in the passing game w/ McCoy – but we’ll have to wait & see if I am in the ballpark or not.

If that thinkning was the case, Shanny wouldn’t have ever done better than 7-9 in Denver.

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by super7 on Jan 25, 2011 10:31 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm not really sure who or what you're debating..

We can’t associate fox completely with the run or pass game. He’s a head coach. Not the OC.

I didn’t. Show me where I even implied such a thing. I said, “One thing that’s always worried me about Fox is that other than those three years of DeAngelo, he only had a top-20 running team one time.” I made no determinations or final judgments. I know what a HC is, but thanks for teaching me it’s not an OC. Nevertheless, I’m still very much allowed to ponder and wonder why Fox gets so much credit for a strong rushing attack when he’s really had a consistently bad rushing attack sans the three years DeAngelo WIlliams was there.

We can’t associate fox completely with the run or pass game.

I never said that either. I never implied that I associate Fox completely with the run game. In fact, I asked, "was it Magazu, or was it DeAngelo Williams responsible for those changes (the uptick in the run game)?

Denver isn’t going to be a carbon copy of Carolina.

Um, again, I never even implied such a thing. It’s like you just picked a comment at random to voice what you were thinking regardless of what the comment actually said or was about. I’m not stupid. I realize Denver won’t be a cookie cutter of Carolina.

But that doesn’t in any way mean I’m not allowed to wonder aloud about Fox’s consistently bad offenses, after all, that’s basically like 40% of the team he’s responsible for. And I’m also allowed to point out that the running game only got good, after being consistently bad… when DeAngelo Williams began starting.

History is a good predictor of future events. I’m allowed to look at history to find clues of what might happen. If Fox has consistently had a bad offense without DeAngelo Williams, I’m allowed to be happy that he’s turned the keys over to a new OC.

by Rodney A on Jan 26, 2011 11:13 AM MST up reply actions  

I agree
look at history to find clues of what might happen

That’s a great point.

We look back at the history for patterns, then dig deeper to see if we can discern any apparent reason for things getting better or worse, then extrapolate what that might mean for future events.

I will disagree with one statement:

he only had a top-20 running team one time

A lot depends on how one chooses to define “top-20.”

In terms of yards, Fox had a running game that finished among the top 20 teams in the league 6 times: 2003 (7th), 2005 (19th), 2007 (14th), 2008 (3rd), 2009 (3rd), and 2010 (13th).

In terms of rushing touchdowns, Fox’s running game finished among the top 20 teams in the league 4 times: 2004 (19th), 2005 (8th), 2008 (1st) and 2009 (10th).

My question would become, in regards to this, what changed in the off years? Why were they decent one year and not so good the next? Were there injuries? Staff changes? Roster turnover?

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 26, 2011 1:39 PM MST up reply actions  

Great ?s

That’s the big take away for me. Is it the coaches or the players? The only realy black mark on Fox’s career (to me, anyway) is his last year.

I know he was sort of a deam man walking, but wow, that was really really bad!

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by super7 on Jan 26, 2011 4:31 PM MST up reply actions  

I can't communicate with you dude

sorry.

You take things WAY too personally. I’m trying to have a conversation. You’re trying to have an argument.

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by super7 on Jan 26, 2011 4:32 PM MST up reply actions  

THanks Super7

Let’s see Williams is a FA, right? And, I’ve heard we have a lot of money under salary cap, right?

I would think that would be a top priority then. I still am dubious about Moreno, even if it’s just his stamina. Carolina had 2 – 1000 yard runners, and I think Williams was one. Love to get Williams.

- If you're so certain, maybe you're just proving the Dunning-Kreuger Effect

by Puesto on Jan 25, 2011 10:09 PM MST up reply actions  

+1

Yes I would love to see williams come over to Denver

by Calikula on Jan 26, 2011 9:28 PM MST up reply actions  

Nice article...good thoughts

However, I dont believe moving to ZBS and changing defensive scheme would be staying the course? I do believe he’s trying to maintain some continuity for consistency sake but he’ll put his stamp on this team and it will be noticeable very quickly!!!!

"Attitude reflects Leadership" Hogblog...aka KSM

by Hogblog on Jan 25, 2011 8:08 PM MST reply actions  

Good point

Maybe I should have titled it “Staying the Course — In regards to Offensive coaching staff”

This article came about from a discussion with John Bena and other members of the MHR staff where John pointed out that Fox was keeping five out of the seven offensive coaches from last year. That piqued my curiosity and I ran with it.

Undoubtedly we’ll see a different product with the offense in 2011, what will be interesting to see is how well the coaches rise to the occasion in preparing the players for those changes.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 8:18 PM MST up reply actions  

Coaching is a piece of the whole

No scheme or dream team of coaches will be sucessul without an improvement in player talent.

he's tall, blonde, smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!

by Scrappy Bill on Jan 25, 2011 8:17 PM MST via mobile reply actions  

Absolutely

And that part of it falls on Xanders and Elway to bring in the pieces that are missing.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 8:18 PM MST up reply actions  

Perhaps one can say

that hes keeping the offense mostly together because it wasnt that awful last year, just the defense. Like that old saying “If it not broken, dont fix it”

by Calikula on Jan 25, 2011 8:29 PM MST reply actions  

On the topic of

Moreno, I say Meh. He has one more year to prove himself, otherwise I say trade him

by Calikula on Jan 25, 2011 8:58 PM MST reply actions  

Ditto +1

- If you're so certain, maybe you're just proving the Dunning-Kreuger Effect

by Puesto on Jan 25, 2011 10:10 PM MST up reply actions  

If he continues to prove injury prone

then it would be nice to have him as part of a real committee. The wear and tear would be less and he has shown good hands and good skills. Trading him might be a waste. Pairing him up with a solid complimentary RB could be excellent. It seems like the NFL is moving toward the committee system anyway…

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by BroncTastic on Jan 27, 2011 8:57 AM MST up reply actions  

Thats true

he may have too much on his plate. I think he has proven he cannot be an every down back. With the right guy though, such as Williams…

"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson

by Calikula on Jan 27, 2011 11:00 AM MST up reply actions  

Loved the stats, Brian

A couple of corrections. The Broncos are listed as being 20th in total yards in 2010, but 13th in yards per game. That’s impossible. They were 13th in both. Similarly, it’s impossible for them to have been 20th in total points in 2009 but 19th in points per game. Their total was 20th best, and when that and everybody else’s is divided by 16 it’s still 20th best. As for basically retaining the offensive coaching staff, I think 1, 2 and 5 basically cover it. Actually, 5 is just an elaboration of 2. We had two recently injured star lineman not playing 100%, and two rookie lineman. Probably all four will be noticeably, in some cases dramatically better individually, and being together a second year as a group means they’ll be better coordinated as a unit. There’s good reason to expect considerable improvement, and if Tebow is the starter he, too, will be considerably better. He was surprisingly effective for a raw rookie. For once the hype, in this instance his ability to “make plays” (regardless of whether he has pretty stats), was on the money. And with his renowned work ethic and ability to absorb information I think he’ll surprise even those who’re expecting Great Things eventually. The other reason for stability is Fox, unlike Shanahan (and perhaps McDaniels), does not micromanage in his area of relative weakness but is willing to delegate to a coordinator who’s good on that side of the ball. And as you indicated he and McCoy have a history together. That’s who he probably would have hired if he wasn’t already here. One more thing. Irrespective of other factors the running game will improve because Fox, unlike McDaniels, emphasizes it. That and long passes when the defense cheats up. The latter went missing once Delhomme hit the end-of-career wall but Tebow fits that style perfectly. I was surprised at how good a deep ball he throws, strikingly so for a rookie.

"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.

by spock on Jan 25, 2011 10:51 PM MST reply actions   2 recs

Thanks for the catch on the typos, Spock

The first (yards) was due my reading across the columns instead of down, so it didn’t register. The second (points) had to do with the way espn reports stats — Denver was 20th with 326 points, the #19 team had 327. But when they showed the points per game, they rounded to a single digit after the decimal so both showed up as 20.4. LOL

I’m like you, I tend to believe that we will see an improvement in the running game under Fox’s direction.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 25, 2011 11:09 PM MST up reply actions  

Right on the money, Spock

your logic was solid…

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."

by BroncTastic on Jan 27, 2011 9:00 AM MST up reply actions  

Brian, nice post.

I agree that McCoy’s relationship with Fox and the offense and run game improvement led to rehiring some of the staff. The last five games, the Broncos ran for 671 yards, a 134 yd/gm avg. That shows a marked improvement in the OL thru the season where the first two months avg. 67 yds a game, running the ball. I feel the hiring of so many of McD’s staff is a back door compliment to him. There are a lot of good players on this offense, and I still hold the view the Cutler trade for Orton, Olsen, Ayers, Decker and parts of Demaryius Thomas, Tebow and Quinn was a great deal for Denver and I think McCoy probably related that to Fox. It’d be interesting to pick McCoy’s brain and find out what he privately said to Fox concerning McD, but there had to be some positives in there to encourage retaining a relatively large number of the staff and continue what was started.

by AvsNippon on Jan 26, 2011 1:17 AM MST reply actions  

I think you've made a good point

with your statement about the improvement in the running game. A lot of that improvement came after the offensive line settled into a single set of five guys playing together over several games, along with the return of Moreno to full (or at least near full) capability.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 26, 2011 9:06 AM MST up reply actions  

Actually that's kind of off

The increase in running yards per game in the last five games almost all came from Tebow, rather then from increased production from the backs.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 26, 2011 10:34 AM MST up reply actions  

Agreed

Though one can not dispute that we were running better and more effectively. A YPC by each RB for those last three games vs the rest of the season would be an interesting article.

by Brian Conrad on Jan 26, 2011 10:49 AM MST up reply actions  

The YPC for each back went up in the last 5 games, Moreno especially

But they got less carries, by a lot.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 26, 2011 10:59 AM MST up reply actions  

I, for one

Am intrigued by seeing what Moreno can do behind a reasonably competent run blocking line.

I have my doubts about him, but I’d be lying if I said that he doesn’t show me a glimmer of awesomeness once in a while too.

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by super7 on Jan 26, 2011 4:36 PM MST up reply actions  

I like him

I doubt he’ll ever be great, but you don’t need great to win, you need good, and he’s been pretty good when healthy. Next season should be a make or break for him though, he’s not a rookie anymore, and the line will have had more time together.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 27, 2011 12:03 AM MST up reply actions  

Yes and No

Tebow did have a tremendous impact on the running game. Teams had to guard against him running as well as passing plus the running backs running.

However, during the last 5 games, Denver averaged 136.2 yards per game. Tebow averaged 39.8. This would mean that the backs averaged 96.4 yards per game.

Moreno finished the last five games with 307 yards, Tebow 199, Ball 117, Buckhalter 52, and Orton 5.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 26, 2011 1:54 PM MST up reply actions  

You are correct about the last five games

But once Tebow started, he averaged 66 YPG, while the team averaged 126 YPG, meaning the backs only earned about 60 YPG. Moreno improved, but overall, our running plays were really cut down and Tebow took over as the main rushing attack.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 26, 2011 4:23 PM MST up reply actions  

Agreed

Keep in mind, too, that Moreno was pulled early from two of the last three games due to injury — if my memory has not totally failed me.

Tebow adds an additional weapon. I’d love to see what happens if we have a solid o-line and healthy backs to add to the passing attack and Tebow’s running.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 26, 2011 5:59 PM MST up reply actions  

I do look forward to a better offensive line

But I doubt Tebow will run as much as he did this past season next season. It just isn’t a good way to stay healthy. I realize Tebow is a big guy, but those hits make a player sore, wear him down, and I don’t want my quarterback sore come the 3rd or 4th quarter. Sure, running on occasion to get away from pressure is fine, but I want to limit his designed running plays outside the goal line.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 27, 2011 12:05 AM MST up reply actions  

Fox basically kept all the coaches I wanted

namely Nunnely, Studesville, Gase – so, I’m a happy man.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

"Gear down there big shifter This is the "No Bull" review man…" a total Lebowski-esque one liner from Sadaraine, whether he realizes it or not - comedic gold.

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 26, 2011 2:26 AM MST reply actions  

LOL

I’m sure Fox will be please to hear that. (Just kidding)

I think we have a decent core of players and coaches, and perhaps McDaniels’ largest failure was in not being able to utilize them all in the best way possible.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 26, 2011 9:05 AM MST up reply actions  

ooops

We did not sustain drives because of Orton most of the time, coupled with McD’s horrible 1st-2nd down playcalling. to compare or event expect similar results to the 2010 season is an excercise in futility, IMO

by Brian Conrad on Jan 26, 2011 8:47 AM MST up reply actions  

Not sure I can totally agree with this
We did not sustain drives because of Orton most of the time

Yes, he did have his struggles, but he also did not have much of a running game to take any of the pressure off of the passing game.

I would agree that I hope that we will see better results in 2011 than we saw in 2010.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 26, 2011 9:14 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

I understand your point

But Orton is a one receiver QB. He would lock on Lloyd, the same as Marshall, and wait and wait and wait, and then Lloyd does not come open and Orton takes a sack or throws it away. He would only find Royal often later in games during “garbage” time when the coaches seemed to have pointed him out.

by Brian Conrad on Jan 26, 2011 9:37 AM MST up reply actions  

That's actually not entirely true

Lloyd is a #1 receiver, same with Andre Johnson in Houston or similar to a number of teams, but Gaff and Royal had better YPG with Orton then with Tebow due to Orton spreading the ball out. And here’s a post talking about TOP and how well we sustained drives. It’s kind of a myth that we couldn’t sustain drives. Orton actually had longer drives on average then Tebow. I know we may not remember it that way, but it’s true.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 26, 2011 10:38 AM MST up reply actions  

Well sure

But Tebow was a rookie in his first starts and the playcalling was a horible joke until halftime in the Texans game. The Raiders game was one of the worst called games I have ever seen. Run run run. Run for safety. I understand playing it safe, but come one. You can’t compare the spread and screens that McD was running with Orton to what they did to Tebow most of the time he was starting.

To compare the two right now is unfair. Check back in when Tebow is in his sixth season. Even then, comparrisons will likely be futile, as the Tebow offense will be nothing like the Orton/McD one.

My only point is that Orton locks on to Lloyd (or the first intended receiver), A LOT. We would have beaten Indy easily if he had looked to Royal in the flat multiple times in the redzone. Many of Orton’s sacks were a result of him locking on to his preferred receiver, and then not having the ability to make a play when that receiver never came open. Throw in how many catches Lloyd made that most other humans would have missed and it get’s worse.

Just my .02

by Brian Conrad on Jan 26, 2011 10:48 AM MST up reply actions  

Thanks for your thoughts

But I’ve found that while Lloyd is Orton’s first target most of the time, which is natural on a team with a true #1 receiver, but it seems he didn’t target Lloyd excessively more then the other receivers.
Targets:
Lloyd: 153
Gaff: 112
Royal: 105

While this doesn’t include looks, it is a fair judge of how often Orton looks to a player. Speculating on winning games because of possible missed opportunities, especially a game like Indy where we had no problem moving the ball, is tough, also because Indy was beating our defense as well. Orton has his struggles, but he does a fantastic job of ball distribution, with about 100 of his passes going to players other then his top three receivers. I can see how it’s easy to possibly misremember this season, but I found that it’s just not true.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 26, 2011 11:06 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly . . .

It’s amazing that Orton was once criticized as “Check Down Charlie” because of his propensity to check down rather than take chances on too narrow of windows. And now he locks onto players, rather than check down. It makes me wonder, “Which one is it?”

The fact is, Orton’s offense often raced up and down the field between the 20s like participants in a marathon. It was in the red zone where they were so often stuffed. And any good coach will tell us that in the red zone is where a running game is so critical because the field gets so much smaller and receivers are so much more easily covered.

Orton is leaned on so heavily for Denver’s failings as to make it unfair. I realize that it goes with the territory: QBs are judged according to TDs and wins. But that does not remove the fact that the QB needs the support from the rest of the team. Give him a decent running game and a competitive defense, and I deeply believe Orton will be the winner he was when he came to the Broncos (as one of the winningest QBs in the league, with one of the highest QBRs), and the Broncos will resume their place in the postseason.
-

BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!

by AZDynamics on Jan 27, 2011 1:34 PM MST up reply actions  

+1

BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!

by AZDynamics on Jan 27, 2011 1:24 PM MST up reply actions  

Great post and nice work gathering all of those stats

I was quite surprised to see the #1 ranking on goal-to-go situations, but I was unable to log into NFLgsis to determine what the stat means. Is that % of the the time scoring on GTG or is that % of the time scoring TDs on GTG? Either way it is a nice stat, but it can be misleading if the Broncos had significantly fewer GTG situations than most other teams in the league. If you get GTG only twice per game and score TDs both times, you still lose to a team that gets GTG six times and only scores a TD on half of them (leaving out FGs).

by DE_BroncoFan on Jan 26, 2011 8:53 AM MST reply actions  

I agree that there is some ambiguity on what is being measured in the Goal to Go percentage

And while I would suspect that the Denver may have had fewer goal to go situations than other teams, they did convert on 86% of their opportunites — the 2nd place team converted 84% and the 3rd place 81. For what it’s worth, the Super Bowl teams recorded a 73.5% (GB) and a 68.0% (Pit) conversion rate.

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 26, 2011 9:18 AM MST up reply actions  

Well researched post, rec'd

I’m glad we will have continuity with the coaches, no need to create unnecessary turmoill

I agree, Larsen shouldn’t get any bigger. I am getting tired of his bone crushing hits knocking the pixels off my TV, once they fall to the floor they are very hard to find.

by Arctic Bronco on Jan 26, 2011 9:56 AM MST reply actions  

I wish I could give you more Recs and buy you a 6-pack, Brian . . .

Just a superlative breakdown and analysis. I hope we keep seeing a lot of your posts on MHR . . .
-

BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!

by AZDynamics on Jan 26, 2011 6:40 PM MST reply actions  

Thanks for the kind words, AZ

We live in an age when instant gratification isn't fast enough

by Brian Shrout on Jan 26, 2011 8:05 PM MST up reply actions  

Great job Brian. Very interesting read!

FIRE JOE ELLIS!

ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!

"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"

Harv Neptune.

by boydy2669 on Jan 26, 2011 8:43 PM MST reply actions  

This was great.

I loved the detailed breakdowns and the reasoning behind your points. Thanks for taking the time to do all that. It made for an interesting read and, best of all, a thought provoking one.

Take my advice... I'm not using it!
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague."

by BroncTastic on Jan 27, 2011 9:06 AM MST reply actions  

Thanks for the post

Goes to show that in many cases, our eyes are not relaible for judging performance, and that COMPARATIVE rate stats are important to understanding success.

Unfortunately, the reality is we all tend to do is watch our favorite team, and then the really good teams in the playoffs/etc. As such, we tend to compare our players and their performance to unrealistic standards. For example, compared to Manning/Brady/Rodgers/Brees/Roethlisberger, Orton doesn’t look like a world-beater… but compared to the majority of starting QBs and NFL success as a whole, he actually looks pretty good. Same with our running game, short-yardage performance, etc… we remember our own failures, but sometimes forget that EVERY TEAM has lots of failures. Unless we look at stats, etc., we don’t know whether our success/failure rate is better or worse than the league average…. because our eyes and gut will often decieve us.

That said, there are things we can only learn from our eyes… scouting can give great insight into the WHY of success/failure. Scouting is how we explain success/failure, but IMO is not great for how we should judge WHETHER it is success/failure. It can also tell us what can be improved, and point to areas of great potential (e.g. TT’s poor mechanics (fixable?) vs. Orton’s poor athleticism (not)) that could help us predict future performance.

Thanks for an interesting post and stimulating discussion.

by cjfarls on Jan 27, 2011 12:49 PM MST reply actions  

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