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Mock Drafts - No Offense Please, It's Offensive

 

For all those of you wonderful Mock Drafters taking the hours to write up some very interesting Mocks remember that Denver essentially has 10 starting positions that they must upgrade or find future replacements on Defense.  TE’s, Guards, and RBs are all nice things to draft, but I am throwing out the idea of doing a switch. Instead of fixing the defense with free agents and drafting offense I would hope that the opposite happens in 2011.  Fix the offense with free agents and draft defense. The number one reason why is that Denver has the worst defense in the NFL.  Stats don’t lie at this level.  32nd in yards.  32nd in points.  The only Defensive players taken in the first two rounds in the last five years are

 

2010 - none

2009 – DE Ayers, CB A. Smith, S D. McBath

2008 - none

2007 – DE J. Moss, T. Crowder

2006 -- none

 

Only two of the five players are still with the Broncos and neither of them are studs.  (Ayers is average at what he does in this defense).   McBath is a special teams player at the moment. 

 

Tight Ends

 

Please stop taking TE’s in the Draft – It is a very dependent and non-vital position in the NFL.    Most Tight Ends are dime a dozen players and don’t make that much of an impact unless their last name is Gates or Clark.  I don’t know if you remember the draft of 2006 beyond Jay Cutler, but 8 TEs were taken in the first three rounds, two in the first round including Vernon Davis with the 6th overall pick.  The Niners could have taken Jay Cutler or Matt Leinart and they took Davis. 

 

Here is the list of tight ends in that draft which was supposed to hold large amounts of future Antonio Gates.

 

6th Vernon Davis

28th Meredes Lewis – didn’t break 41 catches until this year

46th Joe Klopfenstien – Cut in his third year. Is currently out of football

53rd Anthony Fasano – Was traded in his third year. Never broke 40 catch mark.

61st Tony Scheffler – Had a great report with Cutler in Denver and is now the second guy in Detroit behind Pettigrew.

72nd Leonard Pope – Cut in his third year.  Had 10 catches for KC this last year.

86th David Thomas --

92nd Dominique Bryd

These guys are floating all over the NFL.  We can pick up two TEs in free agency or trade for a PB & J sandwhich.

 

 

TEs available in Free Agency this year – Zach Miller, Owen Daniels, Kevin Boss, Mercedes Lewis, and 20 other guys.

 

Running Backs – As much as I love to watch running backs they are really not the focus of any team that has won a championship.  Defense and Quarterbacks are the key people.  Running back by committee seems to be the way to go. No more Emmitt Smith’s around leading their teams to the big trophy.  A lot of three headed RB monsters.  This is a good year to pick up a couple of back in free agency.

 

 

RB Free Agents available  -- DeAngelo Williams, Arian Foster, Amhad Bradshaw, Mike Tolbert, Michael Bush, Ronnie Brown, Leon Washington, and 20 other guys.

 

 

Offensive Line – Denver has already invested in their O-Line in the draft the last couple of years since 2006 with Ryan Harris.  The line sowed that it had a couple of rookies.  Give them some time and bring in a couple of vets in Free Agency that can give depth and provide leadership and experience.  Light and Mankins are available.  Just sing those guys and watch Tom Brady try to stand in the pocket.

 

OL Free Agents - - Matt Light, Logan Mankins, Carl Nicks

 

Draft Front Seven

Denver has seven draft picks in the first three rounds in this years and next years draft.  How convenient?  I see a lot of Patrick Peterson being mocked to Denver, but let me ask you this?  Would you rather have porous defensive line and try to develop a corner first or have a decent secondary and develop a defensive line first?  Champ and others will be here for another year.  Denver needs to desperately reload in their D-Line and get those guys developing.  I don’t think it matters if you take Peterson because no corner is going to help you when you are getting ran over for 200+ yards per game.  Also, Peterson would not be able to cover WRs for seven seconds.  Corner is a luxury position that you take when you have already put a few other pieces in up front.  Currently Denver has a bunch of second string players as their front seven and it has showed.

 

Denver’s Likely D-Line with no upgrades or additions. 

 

DT – Justin Bannan

NT – Jamal Williams

DT – Marcus Thomas

 

 

My best case Mock Draft

 

1st Round (2nd Overall)– DT Nick Fairley 6-4 298 or DT Marcel Dareus 6-3 298 lbs

 

15colfb_t300_medium

via media.commercialappeal.com


I don’t personally have tape on these guys to really know which one will work out better.  I like both and think they can be studs at the next level.  Denver scouts will have to decide which will be the better prospect.

 

 

2nd Round (36th overall)  -- NT Jerrell Powe - 320lbs - 6-2

 

Jerrell_display_image_medium

via cdn.bleacherreport.net


This is a must.  This guy can be dominant and is the best NT prospect in the draft.  Denver currently has no top NT prospects.  Marcus Thomas should be playing DE in  a 3-4.  Did anyone see what BJ Raji did against the Eagles offense?  All top Nose Tackle Prospects are talked about as lazy fat and a risk.  The truth is not many NT prospects ever get beyond that and it is OK.  They only play a about 60% to 70% of snaps and are there to eat up blockers and make a push.  These aren’t pass rushers.  These are big uglies. Get em in a weight room and get start developing.  His draft stock will shoot up in the combine.

From nfldraftscout.com

12/08/10 - 2010 ALL-SEC FOOTBALL SECOND TEAM (COACHES): DL Jerrell Powe, Ole Miss, has been selected All-SEC Football Second Team for the 2010 college football season as selected by the SEC head football coaches. The senior defensive tackle earned second team honors for the second straight year, after garnering the same distinction in 2009 from the Associated Press. A native of Waynesboro, Miss., Powe was among the candidates for the Rotary Lombardi Award, Outland Trophy and Bronko Nagurski Trophy and was voted a Team Captain by his teammates. Despite often facing double teams, Powe amassed 27 total tackles, 8.5 TFLs and 2.5 sacks this season, including 1.5 sacks at No. 8 Alabama. Powe missed only one game in his three seasons with the Red and Blue and started 22 of 25 games the past two years. The 6-foot-2, 320-pounder concludes his Rebel career with 69 total tackles, 24 TFLs and seven sacks. - Ole Miss football

 

 

 2nd Round  (46th overall)–DE/ DT Jared Crick

 

Jared-crick-p1_medium

via i.cdn.turner.com


Denver now has three legit linemen prospects.  It is Ok if one doesn’t pan out, but the youth surge up front is now in place. This isn’t  a sexy mock, but neither are record breaking days by opposing running backs.  Did anyone see what BJ Raji did against the Eagles offense?  Denver needs a complete foundation at D-line.  No house can be built without it and this year is deep in D-Linemen.

 

3rd  Round – (67th overall) ILB Mark Herzlich

 Markherzlichpicture-220x241_medium

via www.sportsgrid.com

This guy had an issue with cancer is now cancer free.  Your middle linebackers are the QBs of the defense.    This guy has all the intangibles and the physical gifts to match.  A true leader and playmaker.  He will be a steal in the third round.

 

 

Beyond the fourth round

I think it is too difficult to project beyond the third, but Denver only has three picks left.  None in the fourth or fifth.  So I am not holding out for starting material with those guys.  Maybe one will shine through.  Could use some more DB help and the aforementioned offensive positions.

 

 

At this point Denver can focus on Pass Rushers and DBs in 2012 if they want.  They should still consider pass rushers and linebackers for the next year.

Poll
This Draft works
Yes I love rebuilding Denver's Interior D
118 votes
So So we need some different players like Safety and Pass Rushers etc.
34 votes
Denver must draft a TE
2 votes
This is stupidest mock draft idea yet
6 votes
I am still hoping we draft a new QB who can throw better
1 votes

161 votes | Poll has closed

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

Comment 96 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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Love the mock

Hopefully we can unload Orton or Royal for another pick and grab the Matthews kid.

by ElwayFanJ on Jan 9, 2011 10:39 PM MST reply actions  

there are good sleeper inside linebackers available in the 7th. Plus receiving tight ends (both of the Stanford tight ends – Cory Fleener, Konrad Reuland, etc). Plus a lot of sleeper RB’s – Vai Taua, Derek Locke, etc.

I do like your Matt Light free agency pickup. We do need tackle depth – and a veteran presence like his – and with a left-handed QB, we have playing time opportunities for a pass-protection LT at RT. I doubt we can offer the $$ of a team that will have him starting solely at LT — but we can offer him a longer contract than those teams.

Other than Matt Light — and picking up a pass-rushing linebacker like Lamarr Woodley or Tamba Hali — I don’t think we should be active in free agency this year.

by yibberat on Jan 9, 2011 10:47 PM MST reply actions  

I really do like your pick of Powe at 36. We might be able to pick him up with our #46 pick – only Washington needs a NT between those two picks. But there is no way Powe will make it to the 3rd round with both the Jets and Steelers watching and in “replacement” mode for their NT.

by yibberat on Jan 9, 2011 10:53 PM MST reply actions  

I like it! I would be psyched if we revamped our D like this in the upcoming draft. I’d also like Bowers if we end up going 4-3.

Let's put the 'D' back in Denver

by plainview88 on Jan 9, 2011 10:56 PM MST reply actions  

I like Bowers a lot as well

I think he’ll be the #1 pick. If Denver picks him I would be fine with it. Not the direction I would start out with because of the desperate need for interior linemen, but not bad.

by agentj007 on Jan 9, 2011 10:59 PM MST up reply actions  

Is Fairley a good fit in the 4-3?

Let's put the 'D' back in Denver

by plainview88 on Jan 9, 2011 11:01 PM MST up reply actions  

I'd say

Fairley is a better fit in a 4-3 than a 3-4

I was eleven when Elway made the "leap" in Super Bowl XXXII, but I like to think that's still the moment I was conceived. Go Broncos!
www.worthingtonjohn.com

by Worthington on Jan 9, 2011 11:02 PM MST up reply actions  

me too

and I’m hoping we stay 3-4. I know it’s much harder to draft for that scheme, but I absolutely love defenses like the Steelers, Ravens, Jets, Packers, and Patriots. Man, I wish we could’ve landed B.J. Raji in the 2009 draft. I’d take him over Robert Ayers (who I like) in a heartbeat. Ted Thompson is quickly becoming the new NFL draft king.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 9, 2011 11:15 PM MST up reply actions  

In that case, I bet if he is there to draft, he is the guy

Let's put the 'D' back in Denver

by plainview88 on Jan 9, 2011 11:21 PM MST up reply actions  

you thinking we're going back to four down lineman?

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 9, 2011 11:32 PM MST up reply actions  

Based on the candidates, I think it is a possibility.

Let's put the 'D' back in Denver

by plainview88 on Jan 9, 2011 11:36 PM MST up reply actions  

Which I’m starting to think will happen…

Let's put the 'D' back in Denver

by plainview88 on Jan 9, 2011 10:59 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah, you are right.

TE’s are pretty worthless. Todd Heap sucked for the Ravens today and didn’t contribute at all. Fantasy football stats tell the true worth of a player.

by swg777 on Jan 9, 2011 11:02 PM MST reply actions  

100 + yds

Ill take that any day from my TE

by mjlarson2 on Jan 9, 2011 11:03 PM MST up reply actions  

no doubt man

some people have it all twisted. Perhaps agentj007 is from the Josh McDaniels school of thought – what is a TE again? John Carlson looked pretty sucky against the Saints as well – 2 TD’s. I don’t know where people get this thought that every single draft pick we have, will be spent on D – it’s all about BPA baby!!! If a talented Offensive player falls to you in the 2nd, and seeing how we probably will end up with 3-4 2nd round picks, you’d be thick if you didn’t at least entertain the thought of drafting him.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 9, 2011 11:12 PM MST up reply actions  

Be careful man

Them is fighten words. I can’t stand the majority of the personnel moves that McDaniels made. He single handedly torpedoed this team in a single offseason.

Oh and don’t make me bring up the famous TE pick who shall remain nameless.

by agentj007 on Jan 9, 2011 11:17 PM MST up reply actions  

Oh no - not Big Rich Quinn

man, I know. That selection from McD is enough to turn the staunchest of TE supporters, against them in the draft. No bro, I was just kidding about the McD thing – your mock is super solid.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 9, 2011 11:19 PM MST up reply actions  

How did that pick go so wrong. I thought he was going to be an OK player.

Let's put the 'D' back in Denver

by plainview88 on Jan 9, 2011 11:21 PM MST up reply actions  

Ugh

I can’t tell you that, but I can tell you this – trading two 3rds away for a blocking TE and a 4th, is bad-bad news.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 9, 2011 11:26 PM MST up reply actions  

Could have Taken RB Shonn Greene

Who was the first pick in the Third.

For that matter 2009 could have looked like this.

1st – OLB Brian Orakpo
1st — ILB Clay Mathews
2nd — Darcel McBath
3rd — RB Shonn Green

by agentj007 on Jan 9, 2011 11:33 PM MST up reply actions  

The new guys have a shot to crush this next draft, a draft like that could start the turn around of a franchise

Let's put the 'D' back in Denver

by plainview88 on Jan 9, 2011 11:37 PM MST up reply actions  

I cannot wait

I’d love to see any combo of these players:
Patrick Peterson ~ Marcell Dareus ~ DaQuan Bowers ~ Jimmy Smith ~ Stephen Paea ~ Kyle Rudolph ~ Robert Sands ~ Mark Barron ~ Noel Devine ~ Casey Matthews ~ Mark Herzlich ~ Kelvin Sheppard ~ Owen Marecic ~ Marcus Cannon ~ Chris Hairston ~ Jared Crick ~ Adrian Clayborn ~ J.J. Watt ~ Nick Fairley ~ Christian Ballard ~ Von Miller ~ Cameron Jordan ~ Akeem Ayers ~ Allen Bailey ~ Mike Pouncey ~ Justin Houston ~ Sione Fua ~ Kenny Tate ~ Phil Taylor ~ Drake Nevis ~ Jeremy Beal ~ Brandon Burton ~ Ras-I Dowling ~ Jerrell Powe ~ Quinton Carter ~ Quan Sturdivant ~ Sam Acho ~ Steven Friday ~ Lance Kendricks ~ Thomas Keiser ~ Lawrence Guy ~ D.J. Williams ~ Kendrick Ellis ~

Any of these guys in the first 4 rounds, and I will be tickled blue & orange.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 10, 2011 3:56 AM MST up reply actions  

lmao

Butt hurt…..as in Jay Cutler when we played the Chargers, butt hurt? As in Al Davis sometime in the near future when Tom Cable finds him in a dark alley, butt hurt? As in Jimmy Clausen his whole life, butt hurt? Or last but not least, as in Rex Ryan once his wife finds out what he’s been writing about her on his bio on that porn site, butt hurt? (Good Lord, did you guys see some of the stuff old Sexy Rexy is into – not for the sqeamish, that’s for sure).

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 10, 2011 2:00 PM MST up reply actions  

he just gets excited about feet

cause when he looks down he can’t see ’em. LOL

daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed

by Broncs55 on Jan 10, 2011 2:09 PM MST up reply actions  

That would have been sweet 007

But I believe that Orakpo & Matthews would’ve left little place for Dumervil – could you imagine those three beasts on the same team. It would be the greatest pass rush trio the league has ever seen. I’d take Clay Matthews if I had to pick between the two. The only other minute problem I have with this could-have-been draft, is why McBath? The guy has been ok when healthy, but never healthy. I’m sure McD could have done better than him also.

Knowing what we know now about the 2009, it should have gone a little something like this (keep in mind, knowing what we know now, we keep Hillis):

1st Round, Pick 12 – Michael Oher
1st Round, Pick 18 – Clay Matthews
2nd Round, Pick 37 – Rey Maualuga / Jairus Byrd (assuming we still trade, which I would still highly advise against; imagine if we land Earl Thomas with that pick this year)
2nd Round, Pick 48 – Max Unger (hate to say it – better than Walton so far)
2nd Round, Pick 64 – Terrance Knighton (nice young NT for JAX)
4th Round, Pick 114 – Sammie Lee Hill (nice developmental NT for DET)
4th Round, Pick 132 – Johnny Knox (we needed WR’s then + he’s a KR/PR)
5th Round, Pick 141 – Jasper Brinkley (big ol’ ILB for the Vikes)
6th Round, Pick 174 – Bernard Scott (nice change of pace back for Cincy)
7th Round, Pick 225 – Julian Edelman (would’ve been a great slot guy in McD’s scheme)

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 10, 2011 3:24 AM MST up reply actions  

Plaehorse78

I agree there could have and should have been better picks by us, however if you knew the lottery numbers before the lottery drawing you would be a millionaire.

2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!

THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!

by The 3 Amigos on Jan 10, 2011 9:45 AM MST up reply actions  

It was all in fun bro

It wasn’t meant to be taken so serious. Some people get so upset (PMS), it makes you leary to even comment anymore.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 10, 2011 10:21 AM MST up reply actions  

Wow, your hindsight GM skills are impeccable!

To think that you can look back after the fact and smash every draft pick out of the park like that! Wow! Impressive!

With your amazing hindsight GM skills I bet you could even do this for all of our other drafts from the past too huh, not just 2010. If so, that would be really impressive!

Scouting talents like you are a rarity my friend. And to think you’re here sharing your vast hindsight knowledge with all of us instead of working for some hindsight scouting department somewhere!

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by c_style on Jan 10, 2011 10:16 AM MST up reply actions  

*2009

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by c_style on Jan 10, 2011 10:19 AM MST up reply actions  

Wow

you took our comments way to serious. Don’t worry, I’m not bashing McD. This was an exercise in fun, nothing too serious, just a comment on a blog. Not once did I imply I was a draft genious, or a scouting talent. You need to chill brother.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 10, 2011 10:20 AM MST up reply actions  

dont let him bother you

some people just wake up and decide to pop a badass pill first thing in the morning :)

daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed

by Broncs55 on Jan 10, 2011 10:22 AM MST up reply actions  

no doubt, thanks for the uplift

That whole morning thing works adversely on me as well. There’s no point in joining the grumpy club today, is there 55?

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 10, 2011 10:26 AM MST up reply actions  

no sir!

The Grumpy club doesn’t have any good sandwiches, no need to join them :)

daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed

by Broncs55 on Jan 10, 2011 10:29 AM MST up reply actions  

I hear their Kool-Aid sucks too

not as orange as ours :D

daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed

by Broncs55 on Jan 10, 2011 10:34 AM MST up reply actions  

you didn't read it, you just reacted
Knowing what we know now about the 2009, it should have gone a little something like this (keep in mind, knowing what we know now, we keep Hillis):

all in fun man, not flaming precious McD’s drafting skills.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 10, 2011 10:24 AM MST up reply actions  

My comment had nothing to do with McD

My point was your little exercize is pointless.

Every team can look back and do exactly what you did there. Of course if you know how things play out you could have made better draft picks. To go back and say “knowing what we know now this is how we should have drafted”…is pointless.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by c_style on Jan 10, 2011 10:28 AM MST up reply actions  

then don't read it

and quit being a grump. Why didn’t you jump on 007
(not that he deserves it either), the comment in which I responded. Or……are you just singling me out? The internet police are out in full force today buddy!!! Watch out!!!!!

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 10, 2011 2:09 PM MST up reply actions  

your comments are as pointless as the one I am making now

to sit there and slander someone for their thoughts is rude and in most cases, unwelcomed. Pale is just making conversation about football and you are slandering his thoughts.

To chastise him for his thoughts is more pointless than his excersize, and is as pointless as the point I am making now.

Historical draft data and what we should have done has a point. You can look at what type of player the ones we could had taken are, what were their stats in college, look at their physical attributes and see if there is a match for what you need today. What could have been, can be mistakes learned for the future.

daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed

by Broncs55 on Jan 10, 2011 2:12 PM MST up reply actions  

a respectful point

I take the hindsight bias problem in the vein it was intended but the myth that Xanders was out of the loop during the last two drafts (and, moreover, that those picks represent egregious personnel decisions) while McDaniels was not is unsupportable. It’s an apocryphal story that needs to have a spike stuck in it.

Many of the alternate draft choices STILL don’t make sense, and their success is partly attributable to the circumstances that allowed them to succeed. For instance, I’d love to have Clay Mathews (who I lauded at the time of the draft) but his skill set placed him at R-OLB where Dumervil plays. And it’s doubtful that Dumervil would have had an NFL leading sack total if we had given many of his snaps to Mathews.

The subject of ‘alternate’ draft histories is worthy of discussion but I balk when contingencies are likewise altered and team-based contributions are attributed to the player himself. Another problem with these alternate scenarios is the ability to change draft position in order to make a selection. The discipline that a draft pick budget imposes prevents a team from taking more than a small fraction of the alternative choices. There are always many more players who appear (in retrospect) to have been attractive choices but there’s no way to fit them into a budget, nor to necessarily draft them without added trades to draft without reaching. The actual metric for evaluating drafts is an abstract number that is remote to the rosy retrospection process and is thus under-appreciated. Our tendency is to ignore trade-offs. It’s a little like a child in an Easter egg hunt who tries to collect ever more eggs while ignoring the fact that previously collected eggs are being pushed out of the basket to make way for new ones.

"the megalomaniac view of oneself as the Elect, wholly good, abominably persecuted, yet assured of ultimate triumph; the attribution of gigantic and demonic powers to the adversary; the refusal to accept the ineluctable limitations and imperfections of human existence, such as transience, dissention, conflict, fallibility whether intellectual or moral; the obsession with inerrable prophecies…systematized misinterpretations, always gross and often grotesque." – Norman Cohn - quoted in The Paranoid Style in American Politics

by Colinski on Jan 10, 2011 2:17 PM MST up reply actions  

HELL YES!!!!!

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA

by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 10, 2011 7:11 AM MST up reply actions  

Never said they were worthless

Just not as important as other positions for the Broncos early in the draft.

by agentj007 on Jan 9, 2011 11:18 PM MST up reply actions  

Wow, you seriously feel that way about Tight Ends?
It is a very dependent and non-vital position in the NFL.

I’m glad you think so. Vernon Davis is a beast, and was every bit worthy of his high selection (if he and Cutler were in the draft today, I’d probably be leaning towards Davis). Did you see what he did the last two years – now, imagine if he had a QB (78 catches, 965 yards, and 13 TD’s in 2009 / 56 grabs, 914 yards and 7 TD’s this year – that’s not an impact?). You seriously think that the only TE’s who matter in the NFL are Dallas Clark and Antonio Gates? Uh, no…. fail.

Tony Gonzalez – John Carlson (caught 2 TD’s against the Saints Saturday) – Owen Daniels (when healthy) – Rob Gronkowski (what a year that young man had, and he’s not any where near finished) – Jason Witten (this guy’s middle name is impact) – Dustin Keller (at times) – Chris Cooley (if he was on a different team, who knew how to use him) – Todd Heap (once again, at times) – Visanthe Shianco – Heath Miller – Zach Miller – Brandon Pettigrew – Kellen Winslow – Marcedes Lewis…… all of these guys were drafted at one time (you have to get them somewhere). There are some pretty nice TE’s in free agency, but most of them WILL get resigned by their original team. If one of them gets away, then I’m all for it.

My mock, for instance, had 7 players spent on Defense, and 3 taken for the Offense – I promise you, you will see something like this. Nobody has an all Defensive, or all Offensive draft (unless they have something like 3 picks). I’d say our draft will lean towards the Defensive side of the ball, and I hope it does, but if a talented player like Kyle Rudolph lands to you in the 2nd, and have three 2nd’s in your pocket, you’d be foolish not to entertain it, especially considering you have two more 2nd’s at your disposal. If you’re hoping for an all Defensive draft, I’m warning you, you will be let down.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 9, 2011 11:08 PM MST reply actions  

I like TEs

But they just shouldn’t be a priority in the Draft. Owens was a fourth rounder in 2006. Shannon Sharpe was a late round prospect as well. They were awesome for their teams and didn’t have to be taken in the first or second round.

If Denver wants to spend a fifth, sixth or seventh on a TE I’m all for it.

I just think that the trenches and front seven are desperate for a youth movement. Of course Kyle could be taken in the first and this conversation is moot.

Vernon Davis is a rare bird and there on none of those types in this draft. If so you would have a very convincing argument.

by agentj007 on Jan 9, 2011 11:14 PM MST up reply actions  

I think Kyle Rudolph

is worth a 2nd, if Atlanta passes on him, but only if we acquire another 2nd, which I’m pretty certain we will. The only time TE should be a priority in the draft is if a freak (like Davis) is out there, or in our case – you don’t freakin’ have ONE, zilch.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 9, 2011 11:17 PM MST up reply actions  

Could sure help Tebow out

Let's put the 'D' back in Denver

by plainview88 on Jan 9, 2011 11:18 PM MST up reply actions  

there you go, my full of common sense friend

You’re always taking the thoughts out of my typing fingers Plain. Are you me and Grind’s long lost bro?

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 9, 2011 11:20 PM MST up reply actions  

Again I point to the TE FAs

If there is Free Agency – I would really like to see Owen Daniels in a Bronco Uni

by agentj007 on Jan 9, 2011 11:22 PM MST up reply actions  

agreed

IF, and that’s a big if, he can keep his butt healthy.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 9, 2011 11:23 PM MST up reply actions  

I would love that, but I would be surprised if he got away from Houston.

Let's put the 'D' back in Denver

by plainview88 on Jan 9, 2011 11:23 PM MST up reply actions  

me too

I would be surprised if Lewis, Boss, or Miller gets away either.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 9, 2011 11:31 PM MST up reply actions  

More like your less knowledgeable cousin

Let's put the 'D' back in Denver

by plainview88 on Jan 9, 2011 11:22 PM MST up reply actions  

screw knowledge

when you have the horse sense of plainview88 :-)

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 9, 2011 11:24 PM MST up reply actions  

If Denver has three 2nd rounders

They now have a luxury pick and I think TE would be great because that is the one position on offense Denver is really lacking in.

by agentj007 on Jan 9, 2011 11:20 PM MST up reply actions  

Now we're getting somewhere buddy

I’m totally with you – if we have only two 2nd’s, we need to go D,D,D, and D (actually more like D & D).

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 9, 2011 11:22 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree. Especially since good receiving TE’s are rarely good blocking ones as well and vice versa. They are worth a low round draft pick — which requires good scouting to identify the sleepers from the draft board drek.

I’d actually say the same thing about RB’s too. Obviously the top 5 or so are in a different tier — but beyond that, college football produces bucketload of great RB’s who never get drafted. Arian foster for example. We just never hear about them because teams are committed to the high pick RB’s. Personally — I think even trading Moreno is an option if it would net us good draft slots.

by yibberat on Jan 9, 2011 11:23 PM MST up reply actions  

At this point, I think he has more value with Denver.

Let's put the 'D' back in Denver

by plainview88 on Jan 9, 2011 11:24 PM MST up reply actions  

me too

I love Knowshon. It’s a shame the guy has had no O-Line help.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 9, 2011 11:25 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't know if I love knowshon

I went to the last two games and there was a nick name being thrown around. Knoyards Moreno. Seemed like the guy didn’t have enough moves and ran into tackles. He shows some flashes, but it is difficult to gage with the state of a young O-line.

by agentj007 on Jan 9, 2011 11:27 PM MST up reply actions  

yep, and he is another guy that needs to stay healthy

Let's put the 'D' back in Denver

by plainview88 on Jan 9, 2011 11:27 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't care about yards so much

Knowshon is a little Touchdown machine. What did he end up with this year (in super limited play, mind you), like 9 total TD’s?

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 9, 2011 11:30 PM MST up reply actions  

I like him, I think he can be a nice weapon on offense, but we need an improvement in the running game going forward.

Let's put the 'D' back in Denver

by plainview88 on Jan 9, 2011 11:40 PM MST up reply actions  

don't take me wrong, I totally agree

But sometimes you have to take playmakers like Moreno early on in the draft. I would rather have Matthews or Oher instead, but I’m not gonna bitch too bad about Knowshon. I 100% agree that we need to fill out the RB rotation, and get Moreno (and our team) some help. Having Tim Tebow back there will help (it wouldn’t shock me to see him run for 800 yards, or more, in a season).

I’d like to see us get any of the following to add to the RB core:

LeRon McClain (he doubles as a FB)
DeAngelo Williams (nasty blend of speed/size)
Noel Devine (this guy could be a homerun threat from anywhere on the field – running / receiving / returning)
Roy Helu Jr. (I just love this dude’s style)
Toby Gerhart (we can possibly get him in the Orton trade)
Peyton Hillis (why, why, oh why….sob, sob, sniffle – I know, quit obsessing, he’s never comin back)
Ronnie Brown (too injury prone to do it all, but would pair with Knowshon nicely)
Michael Bush (when healthy, is a terror on two feet)
Derrick Locke (see Noel Devine above)

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 10, 2011 4:10 AM MST up reply actions  

Our very own TD, qualifies as another

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 9, 2011 11:24 PM MST up reply actions  

We used to be the best in the NFL at finding late-round RB’s and turning them into solid NFL producers. Getting rid of the zone-blocking scheme and using a 1st round pick on RB made me sick to my stomach. I hope that skill set is not completely gone from the Broncos organization. In future years, when we have more draft picks again – that organizational skill would be good to revive if it still exists.

by yibberat on Jan 9, 2011 11:37 PM MST up reply actions  

if Dennison comes home

I expect this skill will come back to us. I’d bet my life that Moreno absolutely excells in the one cut ~ down hill ~ zone blocking scheme. It seems like a match made in heaven, and the extra benefit of Knowshon – he’s a much better receiver, route runner, screen type player than most of our old zone block runners/

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 10, 2011 10:30 AM MST up reply actions  

agreed

I heard he was going to interview Tuesday, I know Denver had gotten permission to interview him. Is this still the case, I haven’t heard anything official as of yet???

daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed

by Broncs55 on Jan 10, 2011 10:33 AM MST up reply actions  

Agreed. We need a TE but not in the 1st three rounds!

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA

by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 10, 2011 7:13 AM MST up reply actions  

on another note (from my TE comment)

I would daresay that if Vernon Davis is united with Andrew Luck (or another stud QB) he would put up insane, #1 wide out numbers. I could easily see him having a 90 grab, 1,400 yard, 13 TD season, couldn’t you? Vernon Davis has the potential to be the greatest Tight End ever, and I’m saying this because you know his blocking skills will get more refined, and much better as he ages.

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 10, 2011 3:30 AM MST up reply actions  

The best mock ive seen so far

I like the D-line picks. I think though at some point later in this draft we need to get an o-lineman for depth. I think every draft should include atleast one o-line and one d-line pick somewhere. And I really don’t believe that Matt light leaves the Pats. Mankins might just cause of their falling out with the contract dispute but that team got a whole lot better when he started playing for them again. I expect them to resign him. I really like the Mark Herzlich (sp?) pick. I also think we should stay with the 3-4 D. Dumervile was just hitting his stride in this style

by Liquor.pig on Jan 9, 2011 11:40 PM MST reply actions  

I actually think there is an ok chance to sign Matt Light. He is declining as a pure LT and New england has Sebastian Vollmer ready to slide over to left tackle to replace him. I’m sure they’ll offer him a one-year transition deal but if he wants a longer-term deal – even as part-time player – there’s a good chance they’ll let him go.

by yibberat on Jan 9, 2011 11:58 PM MST up reply actions  

Well thought out, and well written.

I think too many people underestimate how much a strong front seven dramatically imrpoves the secondary – (does anyone remember the starting lineup the Ravens had going on this year in the backfield, it was atrocious, but the held out because the front seven is full of face-stomping bad-asses).

At this point, I almost don’t care WHO we draft for the front seven in this one – because no matter who I like the front office is going to make up it’s own mind. I just want to see them at least SWING at front seven with all of our early picks (except possibly trading back our #2 if anyone is willing – which is rare). At least then we have a shot. We need to swing on at least 2 D-linemen in the first 3 rounds and at least 1 Linebacker. I wouldn’t be terribly upset at a safety in the first three rounds as long as its an amazing guy who has somehow fell well beyond his projected placement. And we can even toss the late round picks at a couple high-motor/high-talent guys for the front seven that don’t have serious character questionmarks.

"It is better to be rougly right than precisely wrong." - John Maynard Keynes

"Excellence can be obtained; if you care more than others think is wise…risk more than others think is safe…dream more than others think is practical…expect more than others think is possible." - Anonymous Author

by Alexander Wall on Jan 9, 2011 11:50 PM MST reply actions  

And I'm talking about the pre-Ed Reed lineup that they had in the beginning of the season FYI.

"It is better to be rougly right than precisely wrong." - John Maynard Keynes

"Excellence can be obtained; if you care more than others think is wise…risk more than others think is safe…dream more than others think is practical…expect more than others think is possible." - Anonymous Author

by Alexander Wall on Jan 9, 2011 11:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Side note:

I really do NOT want to see us spend a draft pick (of any round) on a RB. It just seems like good runningbacks sometimes come out of the woodwork of free agency and do amazing things for the 2nd or 3rd team willing to take a shot on them. Hopefully we can address RB with a quality guy from FA, if not we can sign some promising young guy that didn’t pan out with another team… because EVENTUALLY one is going to end up being a solid contributor.

"It is better to be rougly right than precisely wrong." - John Maynard Keynes

"Excellence can be obtained; if you care more than others think is wise…risk more than others think is safe…dream more than others think is practical…expect more than others think is possible." - Anonymous Author

by Alexander Wall on Jan 9, 2011 11:53 PM MST up reply actions  

There's no doubt that a strong front seven will do wonders for a defensive backfield

If you look at the Steelers & Ravens, other than some freak Safeties, the rest of their secondary isn’t much to write home about (exluding Ike Taylor, but even he’s debatable as being good), but with a strong front seven, they get done regardless. It all starts up front and I’ve been a rabid proponent for drafting front seven, D-Line especially, for the last decade (the only one’s I’ve been happy with are Doom, DJ Williams, sometimes Marcus Thomas, and……chirp, chirp, chirp – crickets).

Even though I’m obsessed with drafting D, If we have a chance to grab another 2nd (or two), then I believe we have the luxury to draft a freak TE prospect like Kyle Rudolph (he’s a complete player at his position, and his skill/measurables scream of All-Pro).

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 10, 2011 3:37 AM MST up reply actions  

I think it all comes down to value

As much as I like to work on mock drafts, I feel like the Broncos are just going to go BPA at a place of need, which will be hard to predict because it would require predicting the majority of other team picks. I understand the desire to go D line, D line, D line, but there are so many holes to plug, one draft/FA will not build the right defense.

If we really are rebuilding, taking a 1st round TE like Rudolf in the 2nd round would be awesome for the team. It would fill an area of need with an elite prospect at a steal of a price. Sure, it might not be the largest need, but we will have at least two years of picks to find the right value for a position. Likewise, if we pick Fairley in the 1st, and another 1st round DT like Stephen Paea falls to the 2nd round, we have to take him (or trade out for profit). You don’t sacrifice value in order to fill needs.

What I think a good GM has to avoid is trying to fill needs with players who won’t fill them. I think that’s what you’re doing with the Herzlich pick in the 3rd round. Herzlich has not been the productive player he was before his cancer and I don’t think he projects well into the 3-4. Truth be told, there are not many good ILB in this year’s draft. We shouldn’t pick one in 2011 just to pick one because our LB corps is bad. We should instead spend a pick on another position, maybe a playmaking TE if we can get value. We can always pick up a ILB in 2012.

I was eleven when Elway made the "leap" in Super Bowl XXXII, but I like to think that's still the moment I was conceived. Go Broncos!
www.worthingtonjohn.com

by Worthington on Jan 10, 2011 12:07 AM MST reply actions  

the one pick I do disagree with is the first. I don’t think Fairley is gonna be a monster in the 3-4. He’s too inconsistent and makes mistakes. In a 4-3 that’s OK because it creates disruption going forward. But in a 3-4, those mistakes can be costly. Dareus is imo better for a 3-4 — but 3-4 end is simply NOT a position that is a #2 draft pick. The Ravens, Steelers, Jets have only 2 Pro-Bowlers among their 6 starting DE’s. It’s not as important as OLB or NT in the 3-4

And Peterson is not just a CB. He is also the best FS in the draft. He can – and should play all three positions here. And that allows us to rotate the veterans on and off the field so that they don’t get run into the ground. He is truly a one-stop shop for multiple

by yibberat on Jan 10, 2011 12:16 AM MST reply actions  

alternatively — Robert Quinn at OLB with the 1st pick.

by yibberat on Jan 10, 2011 12:19 AM MST up reply actions  

If we stay 3-4, he'd be my third choice

my big board would look like:
1. Patrick Peterson
2. Marcell Dareus
3. Robert Quinn
4. Stephen Paea

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 10, 2011 3:39 AM MST up reply actions  

I love me some peterson!

Our defensive backfield is almost ok when healthy but how many games (or parts of games the Goodie & Champ miss?) Oh yeah, how long is Champ signed for?

We must draft either a CB, safety or both.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA

by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 10, 2011 7:16 AM MST up reply actions  

I'm counting on a quality defender in trade for KO (either a body or a pick)

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA

by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 10, 2011 7:17 AM MST up reply actions  

twould be nice

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 10, 2011 10:32 AM MST up reply actions  

would be nice

however, I believe without a new CBA, we can’t trade squat

daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed

by Broncs55 on Jan 10, 2011 10:34 AM MST up reply actions  

there will be a CBA soon

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA

by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 10, 2011 5:10 PM MST up reply actions  

Wha?

TE a non-vital position? I’m sure the 49ers are upset that they got the Pro Bowl TE over two mediocre QB’s…A year after drafting Alex Smith 1st overall, how stupid would it have been to take another QB??

I wouldn’t tough Jerrell Powe until the third round. Taking him with essentially an extended first round pick to me is a horrendous choice. I would love Fairley and Crick though, but this draft only addresses one area of our team right now…

follow me on Twitter: @Sayre_Bedinger
Check me out on Facebook also
XBox LIVE gamer tag as suggested by XBox: SoppiestKibbles

yep....that's for real

by Sayre Bedinger on Jan 10, 2011 7:31 AM MST reply actions   1 recs

+1 Sayre.

2/3 of the earth is covered by water the other 1/3 is covered by Champ Bailey!

THIS IS BRONCOS COUNTRY!!!

by The 3 Amigos on Jan 10, 2011 9:46 AM MST up reply actions  

+ 15 Sayre

"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."

by PaleHorse78 on Jan 10, 2011 10:32 AM MST up reply actions  

There is no good reason to draft the entire D-line in one year

We do not need to fix everything in one year and we definitely won’t be able to. So FO needs to plan ahead and improve in steps. Going all-in on D-line in 2010 is creating too much risk by putting all eggs into one basket. It will strain our coaching and disrupt continuity. You just can not draft 3 new linemen and expect them all to grow into their new roles. Please remember that D-line is about the most difficult position for transition from college to NFL (other the QB, of course). Look how even the best D-line prospect often struggle and take years to mature. And now you want a whole D-line contingent of rookies? Normally, a rookie, especially if he is not 1st round talent, is rotated in on the D-line so he can pick up the game at the right pace and when surrounded by veterans. When you have 3 rookies, this kind of rotation breaks down. Either you can not put you rookies on the field enough, or you have downs when you field at least 2 rookies and at most 1 veteran. This is a recipe for a broken play, poor team result and frustration for the rookie players.

It is better to have a balanced contingent of rookies: in our case, some D-line, a LB and some others.

by si_ice on Jan 10, 2011 9:12 AM MST reply actions  

If we draft one offensive postion next year, it might have to be RT

Sounding more and more like Ryan Harris and going to walk and not get a new contract. I’m not sure what kind of RT’s are available in FA, so we may have to look to the draft. The team simply cannot go without addressing RT otherwise we’ll have to go back to Beadles at RT with Daniels or Hochstein at LG which was a pathetic lineup this year.

by jwkcsu on Jan 10, 2011 9:50 AM MST reply actions  

about time Mark Herzlich got some love

I’d rather pick him up than Greg Jones from Michigan State. Mark is 6’4 244, has the skill to play OLB or inside. Also his coverage skills are pretty good. I got him as one of my sleepers in this draft. If the broncos want a leader at LB, and a guy that will play his heart out every snap, than Mark is the guy. The only concern is the cancer, I don’t know too much about whether or not that’ll come back.

Also, I disagree with what you said about TE’s (specially since the broncos have a rookie QB), but I like this mock draft. The broncos will get bigger, faster (excpet the sumo wrestler in the second round), and stronger on defense. I still think the broncos can pick up JJ Watt at the start of the second round.

by tiderfootball09 on Jan 10, 2011 9:56 AM MST reply actions  

Personally

I feel we are lacking 1 starter for a 3-4/4-3 in the trenches, and need some depth as well.

It always starts up front for the offense or the defense.

There are some good RB’s and TE’s we can get who are young and talented in the FA.

I like like the idea of stock piling the line.

We have Doom, Ayers, Bannan (who is a legit starter imo) and a stud rookie coming in, we’ll have a good line – just need solid depth, which we may already have.

We also have areas of other needs, possibly another linebacker and safety/corner.

I think we need to weight in heavily on the defensive side of the ball this draft, and like I said, it all starts up front!

daaayuuuuum! you gonna take that KB?!? lol -Broncs55
Absolutely not. KB is a function of aggression and rage, the derivative of which can be traced back to my childhood.-KentuckyBronco
PS3 ID: KoRnHo|ed

by Broncs55 on Jan 10, 2011 10:20 AM MST reply actions  

I really like it

The only thing i’m going to say is that Crick won’t be available by the 46th pick where as their is a chance Powe could be available come the third round. He’s been playing out of position (as a 3-tech) and has had a disappointing season causing him to drop down peoples draft boards but he is a prototypical 1-tech NT.

Since i like the ILB pick, i’d switch Crick with Powe and take Powe 46th overall.

Another idea i’ve been trying to push is picking Sione Fua in the 3rd. He’s small for a NT but like Paea has the strength and motor to play NT.

And now for something completely different

by AlbertaBronc on Jan 10, 2011 11:10 AM MST reply actions  

The TE's importance will come down to what coach we hire

And how he runs the offense. Some coaches use TE’s a lot, others use them mainly as blockers.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 10, 2011 2:30 PM MST reply actions  

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