Some Clarification is in Order: Tebow From Three Perspectives That Need Correction
It seems since Tebow was drafted, we've debated him constantly, his stats, how he looks through the "eye test" and all his intangibles. This is all well and good, but since I do feel it maybe a bit of a dead horse at this point, I wanted to discuss Tebow from three different perspectives and answer a few questions that people often talk about. The three topics I wanted to discuss are how many starts Tebow deserves, personal attacks against Tebow and the strengths and weaknesses of Tebow's style of play.
Since Tim Tebow is a hotly debated subject, I paid special attention to the studies I did, especially comparing the stats and game film. Now please keep in mind, this isn't a pro-Tebow/anti-Tebow post, I didn't create it to debate or argue about Tebow, I did the research for this post, and wrote it, for educational purposes, and I hope that you were able to learn as much as I did.
"Tebow Deserves _____ Number of Starts:"
This is something I've heard a lot. John Bena recently did a poll asking how long Tebow should get to prove what he has and 42% of voters, the largest group, felt Tebow deserves 6-11 games, or most of our remaining games. 29% said a full season. If Tebow starts the remainder of the season, Tebow will have started 14 games, or appeasing both these groups, or 71% of Mile High Report Members. Now I've seen members say Tebow deserves only till the end of the season to see if we need to draft another quarterback and I've seen members say Tebow deserves as much time as Alex Smith. Something that is lost to many of these people is context. Many compare Tebow to players who were drafted in a different era or in a different class of round.
Now to actually put some context on this I wanted to compare players who were drafted in the same level as Tebow and in recent years. Now keep in mind Tebow was drafted at 25th overall. I went back to 1990, so there are 20 drafts worth of players to look at. I did some research and most draft analysts believe the second tier of draft positions start around 20 and go to about 44. Anything higher than this is considered at a different level, same with picks taken lower. It's especially important to note that players taken in the top 5 and top 10 are on a whole other level of expectations and can't be compared even if the player is taken in the 1st round.
With that in mind we found 17 quarterbacks, but due to the nature of three outliers, the list had to be altered. Brett Favre with his 298 starts and Matt Blundin and Pat White with zero starts were removed because they massively offset the data. So keeping that in mind, here's the table:
| Passing | Rushing | ||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Year | Rnd | Pick | Player | From | To | Years Played | Year Start | Games Start | Comp | Att | Comp. % | Yds | TD | Int | Att | Yds | TD |
| 2010 | 1 | 25 | Tim Tebow | 2010 | 2011 | 1 | 0 | 3 | 45 | 92 | 48.9% | 733 | 6 | 3 | 50 | 264 | 7 |
| 2007 | 1 | 22 | Brady Quinn | 2007 | 2011 | 4 | 1 | 12 | 184 | 353 | 52.1% | 1902 | 10 | 9 | 25 | 119 | 1 |
| 2007 | 2 | 36 | Kevin Kolb | 2007 | 2011 | 4 | 1 | 12 | 295 | 491 | 60.1% | 3363 | 16 | 20 | 47 | 90 | 1 |
| 2007 | 2 | 40 | John Beck | 2007 | 2011 | 4 | 0 | 4 | 68 | 122 | 55.7% | 676 | 1 | 3 | 11 | 26 | 2 |
| 2007 | 2 | 43 | Drew Stanton | 2008 | 2011 | 3 | 0 | 4 | 104 | 187 | 55.6% | 1158 | 5 | 9 | 30 | 166 | 2 |
| 2005 | 1 | 24 | Aaron Rodgers | 2005 | 2011 | 6 | 4 | 53 | 1184 | 1819 | 65.1% | 14754 | 104 | 35 | 216 | 993 | 15 |
| 2005 | 1 | 25 | Jason Campbell | 2006 | 2011 | 5 | 5 | 70 | 1296 | 2131 | 60.8% | 14417 | 74 | 50 | 218 | 1068 | 6 |
| 2004 | 1 | 22 | J.P. Losman | 2004 | 2009 | 5 | 1 | 33 | 558 | 942 | 59.2% | 6211 | 33 | 34 | 103 | 489 | 3 |
| 2003 | 1 | 22 | Rex Grossman | 2003 | 2011 | 8 | 3 | 39 | 690 | 1269 | 54.4% | 8213 | 46 | 49 | 71 | 98 | 3 |
| 2002 | 1 | 32 | Patrick Ramsey | 2002 | 2008 | 6 | 1 | 24 | 511 | 913 | 56.0% | 5930 | 35 | 30 | 47 | 89 | 2 |
| 2001 | 2 | 32 | Drew Brees | 2001 | 2011 | 10 | 10 | 143 | 3326 | 5086 | 65.4% | 37418 | 248 | 140 | 274 | 514 | 7 |
| 1997 | 1 | 26 | Jim Druckenmiller | 1997 | 1998 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 21 | 52 | 40.4% | 239 | 1 | 4 | 13 | -10 | 0 |
| 1997 | 2 | 42 | Jake Plummer | 1997 | 2006 | 9 | 10 | 136 | 2484 | 4350 | 57.1% | 29253 | 161 | 161 | 428 | 1853 | 17 |
| 1996 | 2 | 42 | Tony Banks | 1996 | 2005 | 9 | 5 | 78 | 1278 | 2356 | 54.2% | 15315 | 77 | 73 | 246 | 881 | 6 |
| 1992 | 1 | 25 | Tommy Maddox | 1992 | 2005 | 13 | 2 | 36 | 686 | 1200 | 57.2% | 8087 | 48 | 54 | 68 | 128 | 1 |
| 1991 | 1 | 24 | Todd Marinovich | 1991 | 1992 | 1 | 0 | 8 | 104 | 205 | 50.7% | 1345 | 8 | 9 | 12 | 44 | 0 |
| 1991 | 2 | 34 | Browning Nagle | 1991 | 1996 | 5 | 1 | 14 | 213 | 437 | 48.7% | 2489 | 8 | 20 | 26 | 68 | 0 |
| Average | 6 | 3 | 39 | 767 | 1294 | 55.4% | 8912 | 52 | 41 | 111 | 405 | 4 |
You can see the average starts for a quarterback within those parameters is 39, but there's a huge flaw with this, and we'll take a look at that now. Let's break this down:
- Quarterbacks who started 16 games or less: 8 (47%)
- Quarterbacks who starter 32 games or less: 10 (59%)
- Quarterbacks who started 48 games or less: 12 (71%)
- Quarterbacks who started 50 or more games: 5 (29%)
- Quarterbacks who started 100 or more games: 2 (12%)
The majority of players started 32 games or less, which is about two seasons. But there is another factor, and that is that the average career is six seasons long, and that many of those starts happen later in their career, not during their initial "trial." Because of this, if you look at just the players initial starts and the following season, we can see what their initial impression was. For example we will use Brady Quinn, his initial start took place in 2008, so I would include that season and 2009 to get a view at Brady Quinn's early play to see how his coaches and fans judged him. I modified the scope and created a new table that will look at a few categories for their first two seasons. That way we can judge each player on their initial impressions, as well as whether they earned more time based on their play and also, whether or not they are starters now. I did this because we can see if by giving the player more time, do they prove their initial impression right or wrong. Here is the modified table:
| Year | Rnd | Pick | Player | From | To | Years Played | Starts Within a Season of First Start | Record | TD-TO | Got More Time | Starter Now |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2010 | 1 | 25 | Tim Tebow | 2010 | 2011 | 1 | 3 | 1-2 | 7-4 | Yes | Yes |
| 2007 | 1 | 22 | Brady Quinn | 2007 | 2011 | 4 | 12 | 3-9 | 10-12 | No | No |
| 2007 | 2 | 36 | Kevin Kolb | 2007 | 2011 | 4 | 7 | 3-4 | 12-14 | Yes | Yes |
| 2007 | 2 | 40 | John Beck | 2007 | 2011 | 4 | 4 | 0-4 | 1-5 | No | No |
| 2007 | 2 | 43 | Drew Stanton | 2008 | 2011 | 3 | 4 | 2-2 | 4-10 | No | No |
| 2005 | 1 | 24 | Aaron Rodgers | 2005 | 2011 | 6 | 32 | 17-15 | 67-29 | Yes | Yes |
| 2005 | 1 | 25 | Jason Campbell | 2006 | 2011 | 5 | 20 | 8-12 | 13-18 | Yes | No |
| 2004 | 1 | 22 | J.P. Losman | 2004 | 2009 | 5 | 24 | 8-16 | 27-24 | Yes | No |
| 2003 | 1 | 22 | Rex Grossman | 2003 | 2011 | 8 | 23 | 15-8 | 27-27 | Yes | No |
| 2002 | 1 | 32 | Patrick Ramsey | 2002 | 2008 | 6 | 16 | 6-10 | 25-17 | Yes | No |
| 2001 | 2 | 32 | Drew Brees | 2001 | 2011 | 10 | 27 | 10-17 | 29-31 | Yes | Yes |
| 1997 | 1 | 26 | Jim Druckenmiller | 1997 | 1998 | 1 | 1 | 1-0 | 1-4 | No | Retired |
| 1997 | 2 | 42 | Jake Plummer | 1997 | 2006 | 9 | 25 | 12-13 | 28-35 | Yes | Retired |
| 1996 | 2 | 42 | Tony Banks | 1996 | 2005 | 9 | 29 | 10-19 | 30-30 | Yes | Retired |
| 1992 | 1 | 25 | Tommy Maddox | 1992 | 2005 | 13 | 4 | 0-4 | 5-9 | No | Retired |
| 1991 | 1 | 24 | Todd Marinovich | 1991 | 1992 | 1 | 8 | 3-5 | 8-10 | No | Retired |
| 1991 | 2 | 34 | Browning Nagle | 1991 | 1996 | 5 | 13 | 3-10 | 7-17 | No | Retired |
| Average | 6 | 15 |
If we isolate a player's first start, the average is only given 15 starts to prove what they can do. Of the 17 quarterbacks 10 got more time, but of those 10, only five ever kept or earned the starting job again. Those who lost their jobs after their initial two seasons ever earned another starting position. So we can break this down further. to see what those who kept their starting jobs had in common:
- They average close to .500 record (.455 average)
- They had more touchdowns than turnovers
- They had a 60%+ completion percentage
Now let's see how Tebow at this point:
- Currently at .333
- He fits this with 7-4
- Not there, currently at 49%
Now there is still time, the rest of the season really, but if history is any indicator, which it usually is, he needs to win games and get more accurate to keep his job.
Now a final thought, that we can't compare Tebow and patience with guys like Alex Smith or John Elway, they are from different eras and draft locations.
So what have we learned:
- The average quarterback from Tebow's draft position gets about 15 starts to prove themselves
- Their first two seasons of starting usually is an accurate representation of the players skill
- We know what it usually takes to keep the starting job
- We know it's unlikely that a player who plays badly in their first three seasons overall will struggle
- Surprisingly there aren't very many good quarterbacks from this draft bracket in terms of percentage
Bias Against Tebow the Man:
Since prior to Tebow being drafted, there had been negative criticism of Tebow, as there is about a number of college quarterbacks, especially quarterbacks who play like Tebow. Many of Tebow's supporters claim this is based on who Tebow is rather than his style of play. This is one of things that seems strange to me because it's so strange when you zoom out. It is true that Tebow is open about his standards and his faith. He is open about the nature of his birthand it's true he's a huge celebrity in Florida. And all these things can upset people. But the puzzling thing about all this is that there a players who have these traits but don't take any flack.
Let me just make two quick examples, but there are countless more. The first is Colt McCoy. At the writing of this article he is the record holder for wins, he is the Texas version of Tebow. He was consistently winning, consistently in the run for the Heisman, and is the hero of Texas that Tebow was to Florida. As someone who follows McCoy on Twitter, and having meet him (I can't name drop often because I don't actually meet NFL players often) I can also attest that McCoy also is extremely open about his faith. He also has written a book. McCoy's also among the greatest college quarterbacks ever. McCoy and Tebow are almost the same on so many levels in terms of faith, fame, and openness. Colt McCoy receivers much less criticism, which leads me to believe that style of play (McCoy received negativity for his size and arm strength) and his draft position (Tebow was drafted 25th overall while McCoy was drafted 85th overall.
Many will say that Tebow is much more open about his faith than McCoy so I'm busting out the big guns, Brian Dawkins. Now anyone who follows him on Twitter know that he has more faith than a preacher. Listening to Dawkins you will hear him constantly quote scripture. Brian Dawkins is very respected across the league and has possibly more faith than any other player in the NFL.
Now are there people who just dislike Tebow, who don't like to see people be so successful or may not like him showing his faith openly. But the idea that people don't like Tebow because of his fame or his faith is overblown. There are players throughout the NFL with all the same traits as Tebow that face differing levels of negativity, and like Tebow those comments are almost entirely based on their play. No one said that the criticisms of Colt McCoy were unfounded because of his faith or because he was so successful.
So please, when someone says something critical about Tebow's play, they aren't saying it because he's Christian or because we are biased or want him to fail, it's likely just because they see a flaw in his play or have doubts. I'm not denying their is criticism of Tebow, or that some people will think he will fail, just trying to disprove the idea that all people who attack Tebow do so based on his faith or character.
What Are the Strengths and Weaknesses of Tebow's Play:
Skip Bayless, like him or hate him, often uses the phrase "I watched every snap he played." And while I wonder about that sometimes, for this article I rewatched every snap Tebow has played since starting in the NFL. I actually watched them a few times. Now this isn't meant as a judgement of his play so far, but to gauge his strengths and weaknesses. After I did this I set out to find three players who have the same skill set as Tebow and look to see if these players all have the same strengths and weakness as Tebow. The players I decided to use are Donovan McNabb, Vince Young, Ben Roethlisberger and Cam Newton. Now not all these are perfectly similar to Tebow, namely Big Ben, but Roethlisberger's offense will be a focus of this discussion.
When looking at Tebow he, like all quarterbacks, has strengths and weaknesses. Let's take a quick look at a few facts about Tebow and his style of play and we'll use Tebow as well as the other four quarterbacks to get a better, more rounded picture of Tim the quarterback.
*Note: This will look at this his physical abilities since comparing Tebow and other quarterbacks leadership, work ethic and such is useless since no one here knows what the truth of the matter is with all these quarterabcks.
What Tebow's style is good at:
- Deep passes, though not accurately, but these passes will be a bigger part of the offense (Tebow, McNabb, Roethlisberger and Newton)
- Mobility will allow for rolling out more successfully and moving past the line of scrimmage (All quarterbacks)
- Size makes him hard to tackle (All Quarterbacks)
- Screen game (Tebow, McNabb, Newton)
- "Chunk" offense, lots of big plays (Tebow, Roethlisberger, Newton and Young)
What Tebow's style struggles with:
- Accuracy will always be an issue, topping 60% is unlikely (Tebow, McNabb, Newton and Young)
- Use of the slot, due to inaccuracy, rarely lead receivers well (Tebow, Newton, Young and Roethlisberger)
- Will take more sacks than an average quarterback, quite a bit more (All quarterbacks)
- Injuries will plague this style (Tebow, McNabb, Young and Roethlisberger have all missed time)
- Timing passes, due to instability to sit in pocket and slower release will disrupt these passes (Tebow, McNabb, Young and Roethlisberger)
- Along with the "chunk" offense, low 3rd down conversion rate and consistency (Tebow, Roethlisberger, Newton and Young)
So please, when you discuss Tebow's play, these are a few misconceptions:
- Tebow will take less sacks
- Tebow will convert a lot of 3rd downs
- Tebow is too big to get hurt
These things will likely all happen. They are the style of play shown by Tebow and those who play at a similar level. Now these are a few examples of other players, some more successful most are not successful, but Tebow can succeed with his overall style of play, but he isn't as good at this style of play as those listed. He isn't as accurate downfield. He is still working on pocket presence and when to run. He isn't as accurate on any level and he isn't as big as some of the quarterbacks listed. So to succeed he will need to improve in some major areas before he will be able to achieve some level of consistency. We as fans need to keep in mind the strengths and weaknesses of Tebow's play. Now many may disagree with this assessment, I could include the numbers and game clips to back it up, but this post is long enough as it is. So please, at this point, if there is one thing I do well it's research, so please take my word for it.
Tebow's style isn't unique to the NFL and has seen success and failure behind a number of offensive coordinators, head coaches and offenses. It will come down to Tebow the player to determine whether or not he succeeds.
I realize this wasn't the typical pro-Tebow/anti-Tebow post, but I wanted to get these thoughts out there. Often times we only look at a topic from one light and I thought three new paradigms would help us understand the situation. This isn't a "Tebow will fail/succeed" post, so please don't think of it that way, rather it is a study of Tebow from three angles that people often overlook or mistake. Hope it was educational for all you who made it through.
Go Broncos!
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Thanks Max....dont agree with much of it...but I appreciate the effort as always.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
Kyle Orton - Thanks for the memories....I guess???
by boydy2669 on Oct 21, 2011 5:20 PM MDT reply actions 3 recs
thnx max
ur awesome to do the out of the box thing…takes a lot of courage
i wish other people could like stop there knee jerking and lQQk at what you found
MHR...and proud of it!
Tebow will do what it takes to win
and this suffices for me, GO BRONCOS!!!
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Oct 21, 2011 5:25 PM MDT reply actions 3 recs
Amen my mob boss pal!!!
You show me a player that absolutely HATES to lose, and I’ll show you a champion in the making!!! Tim Tebow has the drive, the want to, the work ethic and the passion to be whatever he sets his heart to being. So what we’ll have to run more shotgun / pistol than usual. Tim will figure out his drops under center in time.
"John Fox knows more about football than you, having said that, Kyle Orton still sucks!!!"
"F it dude, at least we're not the Queefs!!!"
"Kyle Orton to St. Louie for a 5th?"
I run a good mob
that goes around helping old ladies do yardwork and hands out Trick-or-Treat candy to children, but thanks :)
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Oct 22, 2011 12:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Great writeup!
I took the net points of our Tebow led team and projected the 14 quarters of play to a full season of 64 quarters to end up with -55 Net points in a 16 game season. It would net us a 6 or 7 win season with a small potential to win only 5 games, as many as 8 games… or rarely 4 or 9 games. Obviously its a small sample size, but it puts Tebow right on the cusp of your .455 win percentage target, and ge still has a 10.5 games to improve, according to your average of 15.
I think Tim will improve at least slighty for sure. I think he will show enough to warrant one more shot to be the franchise next year. And i think we will win enough games to be out of the Luck Sweeptstakes (a 7th-9th overall pick, and we have too many holes to fill to be trading up). Anyhow good stuff.
NEXT MAN UP - NO QUESTION
by Alexander Wall on Oct 21, 2011 5:28 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
When it comes to Tebow
That’s really what I’m looking for, improvement, if he stays at his current level, I will be disappointed. In a 2nd year player as that 2nd season goes along, progression is key. But to keep his job he still needs to win, plain and simple, I couldn’t find a good example of a player getting much more of a chance if they could win.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Aaron Rodgers went 6-10 and they stayed with him....its about progression, not wins with a new QB....
Rodgers ket it close and the WHOLE team improved with him under center. That is the same plan that EFX should be looking for.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
Kyle Orton - Thanks for the memories....I guess???
Actually Rodgers had an extremely talented team around
Much more than we have, and just a note, Rodgers went 11-5 in his second season, I would be careful to use him as an example.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Oct 21, 2011 10:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Why would I need to be careful using Rodgers as an example....
It is what it is. Thats what Aaron Rodgers did. he had talent…so do we. To think there is no talent on this roster is insane
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
Kyle Orton - Thanks for the memories....I guess???
Also the team Rodgers had going 6-10 were previously
in the NFC championship game the year before… Definitely had some talent.
MOZGOD Member #35
But
That doesnt mean were out of the Landry Jones/ Matt Barkely sweepstakes.
by Damon322 on Oct 22, 2011 7:54 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
good thing there's no need...
because we already won the Tebow sweepstakes!!
Better to be quiet and thought of as ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt
by broncofaninIL on Oct 22, 2011 2:29 PM MDT up reply actions
I think we have to go on what we see as we go on
but 11 games is more than enough to see.
not to mention two other considerations..
both Orton and Quinn gone so just Tebow
and Weber. Next year’s QB class is possibly
the deepest since ’83. Look what SD got for
Whitehurst and Philly got for Kolb..
we have to draft a QB first no matter what.
the rest of the draft can address DT, CB, RB, OL
I'm against drafting a QB
Because if Tebow is on the roster there will still be the “Tebow thing” going on, so even if Tebow does suck, I want to let him play at least this season out and compete next season for the starting job. At this point, we have huge needs, you listed most of them though I’d take RB out and add safety and linebacker. If we have the #1, personally, I’d trade down because at that point we could draft so many players we need and build long term. But when it comes to the #1 pick, it’s a pretty divisive issue.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
How can you be against drafting a QB at this point?
and what is making Tebow polarizing is the blind faith.
If were any defensive coordinator.. I would play zone everything.
He is just too inaccurate passing and the ball will be up for grabs
plus staying at home in the lanes stops the running threat.
When defenses exploit the weaknesses he will have challenges.
But it’s yet to see the outcome.
Even if he does succeed wildly.. like I said.. Philadelphia fleeced
Arizona for Kolb.. (how’s that working out down there?) and
Cincinnati fleeced Oakland for Palmer. Having two franchise QBs
is not a bad thing, it’s a great thing.. and this class is one to not miss.
Personally I'm of the opinion
That great, long term success is built then you insert a QB. That’s just personally. That’s why I want us to actually build a team then draft a QB. Everyone is different, otherwise all coaches and GM’s would do it the same.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
This "lack of accuarcy" is just BS to be honest.....plenty accurate in college and that will improve....
I laugh at fans and “experts” that dont think he will improve.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
Kyle Orton - Thanks for the memories....I guess???
by boydy2669 on Oct 21, 2011 7:29 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
If Brandon Lloyd doesnt make the catch of the year..
Tebow is 3/10. last year was 5/10.
I am not saying he wont improve, not saying he will.
But I will say that he has to improve.
Tebow’s lack of accuracy is why he didnt beat out Orton.
Orton’s dismal performance is why Tebow is playing…
its not Tebow’s outstanding practices, and we just
havent seen enough of him to assume he is the future.
Like I said, we will see as we go along.
I was as excited about the 2nd half of the SD game as anyone.
Oh.. I am so tired of losing!!
Oh.. I am so tired of losing!!which is why I want to be sure about Tebow.
Right now I am anything but sure about Tebow.
You are arguing, and then cementing, a point of view based on a VERY narrow sample...
Why not looking at WHAT pass plays Tebow was running, which were mostly big chunk plays that played to his strength of throwing the long ball.
I will take 50% all day every day if the passes he is completing a going for 20 yards or more.
Thats what we have here.
All I am suggesting is to look at the bigger picture and not form an opinion based on 3.5 games…when there is proof positive the kid can throw the ball.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
Kyle Orton - Thanks for the memories....I guess???
by boydy2669 on Oct 21, 2011 8:50 PM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
Yes Boydy... spot on
Many young QB’s struggle with accuracy + Tebow is the most accurate QB in SEC history (over both Manning’s). It will improve. More so than accuracy (which I do agree needs some work), I think it’s more of an issue of not having that rapport with his targets. Just you guys wait until Tebow has 10 weeks worth of practice / game time with his offense…… it will be a thing of beauty.
"John Fox knows more about football than you, having said that, Kyle Orton still sucks!!!"
"F it dude, at least we're not the Queefs!!!"
"Kyle Orton to St. Louie for a 5th?"
by PaleHorse78 on Oct 21, 2011 9:25 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
One of those incompletes was a spike to stop the clock
As long as were nit-picking
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
by Calikula on Oct 21, 2011 11:17 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
get em bro!!!! GET EM!!!!
"John Fox knows more about football than you, having said that, Kyle Orton still sucks!!!"
"F it dude, at least we're not the Queefs!!!"
"Kyle Orton to St. Louie for a 5th?"
by PaleHorse78 on Oct 21, 2011 11:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Hey kyleinsf:
If Lloyd would have made two other routine catches including the two point conversion Tebow would have been 6 for 10 and we would have been kicking a 46 yard field goal to win the game against SD.
Oh, you were finished? Oh, well, allow me to retort!
--Jules Winnfield
by GrizBronc on Oct 21, 2011 11:59 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
The ball will be up for grabs heykyleinsf?
At this point in his career he’s averaging just over 1 int per game and 2.3 TDs per game. I listen to all the talk of his innacuracy and then look at the numbers to date and something doesnt jive..or he is he maybe MORE accurate in the redzone? I dont know but I’ll take it!
Better to be quiet and thought of as ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt
by broncofaninIL on Oct 22, 2011 2:34 PM MDT up reply actions
*This should've read just over 1 TO per game..
he’s actually thrown LESS than 1 int per game. My bad so I absolutely WILL take it!!
Better to be quiet and thought of as ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt
by broncofaninIL on Oct 22, 2011 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions
I 100% agree.....this team can be built around Tebow, and exciting young offense and key young guys on defense. EFX is doing it right....they are banking on Tebow succeeding.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
Kyle Orton - Thanks for the memories....I guess???
yes they are
I never believed this negative hype that EFX was down on Tebow, never going to give him a shot and wanting Andrew Luck next year. John Fox was absolutely beaming about Tim in his inaugural presser…… why would that change now. I think they are very honest about Tim, but at the same time, they can’t get wrapped up in all the Tebow media hype either. John Fox and John Elway walk a fine line in regards to their outward reaction / opinion of Tim Tebow……. they don’t want to kiss his butt to the media, they also don’t want to sound like they put him above the team. Make no mistake though, they are willing to go the distance with this young man.
"John Fox knows more about football than you, having said that, Kyle Orton still sucks!!!"
"F it dude, at least we're not the Queefs!!!"
"Kyle Orton to St. Louie for a 5th?"
add LB??? of all things??
thats easily the most depth on the team!!
Williams, Mays, Miller, Woodyard…
all of those players are good. we drafted
two LBs already, one with the 2nd overall pick
there is no room for our best tackler (Woodyard)
why would you waste a pick there with so
many needs evrywhere else?
and you I like McGahee, but he’s getting up there.
I like Marino only as a receiving/3rd down back
Even with McGahee’s two 100+ games
Broncos are botom 10 running offense
by heykyleinsf on Oct 21, 2011 11:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Mays is not a good MLB. He’s ok at best. Suspect in pass coverage, hit or whiff against the run. We need to upgrade his position
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
Really??? Seriously???
What are you watching? Mays has been awesome. He is second in tackles on the team and is always in on plays. He flies to the ball and has been fundamentally sound. He has had a break out year and looks great out there.
We are all entitled to our opinions, but I don’t see any reason to upgrade the LB position when we have so many other issues on this team.
Im watching Denver Broncos games
Theres been more than once where he missed his assignment, the one that sticks out to me is the last game against SD where he completely whiffed on Matthews. And I dont think Mays is fundamentally sound. He prefers to go with the big hit route, which looks cool and lays the other dude out, but Ive seen plays where the RB breaks away from him because of his tackling technique
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
Considering Mays is a below average LB
And Williams will be leaving the team withing two seasons, we need more youth now. I’m not a huge McGahee fan, but at this point he’s an above average back, and Moreno is a good back as well. Also it’s Moreno not Marino and McGahee has three 100 yard games, not two.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Oct 22, 2011 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions
sorry for confusing knowshon with a hall of famer
I don’t think most people will have a hard time telling the difference.
Moreno is great in the open field.. and absolutely no business carrying
the ball through the line.. nor really on first down.
Lance Ball is about as good as Correll Buckhalter was.. which is not
good enough.. I am not saying high draft pick.. all things considered
right now for next April I would draft in this order (with best players
optimally available at position of need) QB, DT, CB, RB
Is there like an app or widget to countdown for me
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Sunday morning set your clocks forward...
to TEBOW TIME!!!
by So Cal Bronco Fan on Oct 21, 2011 8:13 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Hey Max,
When did Tebow get a 4th TO?
Serious question, because I looked everywhere and I only see 3 INT.
-Champ Bailey's calendar goes straight from March 31st to April 2nd; no one fools Champ Bailey-
-The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese -
It says he fumbled but he didn't lose a fumble, therefore no TO.
-Champ Bailey's calendar goes straight from March 31st to April 2nd; no one fools Champ Bailey-
-The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese -
I included fumbles for all the QB's, lost or not
Because in statistical circles (we’re a weird bunch) they count as turnovers. His fumble on film was just plain bad too. I did it for all the QB’s though, so don’t worry.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Ah kk.
Why is that, a fumble not lost counts as a TO?
-Champ Bailey's calendar goes straight from March 31st to April 2nd; no one fools Champ Bailey-
-The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese -
Because in the case of most fumbles
Even if the ball is recovered, it is more costly to the team than just a sack, and since there isn’t a good “between sack and turnover” statistic, it’s what some people do. It’s like those who track dropped INT’s as a QB stat
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Alright thanks for the reply.
Does the same apply to RB or WR? In the statistical circles? BTW awesome post, all the time and research put in and all the stats. I’ve always loved stats and these posts always intrigued me the most.
-Champ Bailey's calendar goes straight from March 31st to April 2nd; no one fools Champ Bailey-
-The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese -
Haha I was joking about statistical circles
Mostly on sites like Football Outsiders or Pro Football Reference do they track this stuff. I know that the fumble rule applies to other positions as well. Thanks for your thoughts.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
If its not a turn over, its NOT a turnover...if you record that, you have to record QB runs for a loss...thats cherry picking in my opinion.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
Kyle Orton - Thanks for the memories....I guess???
agreed
"John Fox knows more about football than you, having said that, Kyle Orton still sucks!!!"
"F it dude, at least we're not the Queefs!!!"
"Kyle Orton to St. Louie for a 5th?"
That's going against basic knowledge
Add in I applied it to every QB. Please stop derailing my post Ben.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Oct 21, 2011 10:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Really? OK Max...I am out....you need stop being so sensitive when people dont agree with you.....this aint high school mate.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
Kyle Orton - Thanks for the memories....I guess???
At this point Boydy
If you think I’m being sensitive, that’s okay, I’ll take it.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Oct 21, 2011 10:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Yum
cherry, turnovers, I really like foot turnovers though /s/ Rex Ryan
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Oct 22, 2011 12:41 PM MDT up reply actions
I personally just count 50% of total fumbles as turnovers
Since recovery is basically randomn, and I don’t have fancy stats to cut the probability based on where in the field it happens (e.g. wide receiver fumbles more often go to the DEF because there are more defenders than offensive players in the area), a 50-50 split is close enough. So TT would have 3.5 turnovers.
Just a note
If I were to do that, it would make Tebow look worse since most of the other quarterbacks on the list had a lot more fumbles. This system actually makes Tebow look good.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Oct 21, 2011 10:05 PM MDT up reply actions
I do agree his fumble vs the Chargers last year was bad.
-Champ Bailey's calendar goes straight from March 31st to April 2nd; no one fools Champ Bailey-
-The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese -
It would of been worse if we hadn't recovered
So that’s a silver lining.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Yeah because I think we were driving for our last TD to cut the lead to 5 right?
-Champ Bailey's calendar goes straight from March 31st to April 2nd; no one fools Champ Bailey-
-The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese -
He never lost a fumble though
-Champ Bailey's calendar goes straight from March 31st to April 2nd; no one fools Champ Bailey-
-The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese -
Good post, but..
… I don’t think it’s accurate to say that nobody is deriding his play because of some bias against Tebow the person, or his faith.
Sure, most people don’t mix the two. But to say nobody does, is like saying racism doesn’t exist. Most adults these days are above it, but it’s around.
I felt like the whole verses on the cheeks thing was a bit much myself, but each to their own. There are some pretty strong anti-religious folk around though, and anyone who puts themselves out there on such a subject will draw negative feelings, sad as that may be, disguised by a bias, and in this case, a bias against his play.
Just because I speak with authority doesn't mean I actually know what I'm talking about.
I don't believe I said "nobody"
Because I don’t believe that, there are always people like that. Just that most people who are negative towards Tebow or don’t think he can succeed aren’t that way because of his faith.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Reply Fail...
… See below, my bad…
Just because I speak with authority doesn't mean I actually know what I'm talking about.
Haha no worries
Speed reading can overlook things like that, I can see how it could happen.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Nope, but its not all because they dont think he can play...that might be a cltch they play....but its a dislike based on whatvere these morons dislike him for.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
Kyle Orton - Thanks for the memories....I guess???
True, I see you used the words 'not all'
My bad..
Just because I speak with authority doesn't mean I actually know what I'm talking about.
you dont have to ask permission to air your opinion
It was quite good and accurate, your article was perfect until the last paragraph, that is your opinion, actually i completly agree, but you have to agree with me that Tebow makes plays even with his weaknesses
by gabriel suarez moreno on Oct 21, 2011 6:31 PM MDT reply actions
I don't mean to nitpick
and I apologize if someone else has covered this, but the “games started” stat is a bit confusing. Here is the quoted text that I’m referring to;
- Quarterbacks who started 16 games or less: 8 (47%)
- Quarterbacks who starter 32 games or less: 10 (59%)
- Quarterbacks who started 48 games or less: 12 (71%)
- Quarterbacks who started 50 or more games: 5 (29%)
- Quarterbacks who started 100 or more games: 2 (12%)
When I read this, the third stat includes the preceding two. To read, “48 games or less” would include 32 games and 16 games and therefore absorb the percentages that preceded it as well. The same applies to the last two, whereas “50 or more games” would also include “100 or more games,” yet the converse doesn’t apply.
Forgive me if I’ve misunderstood this, but is this how it was meant to be written?
And by this I mean
Should it read, “0-16 games, 17-32, 33-48 games, (49?)50-99 games, and 100 and more games”?
by BroncofaninBK on Oct 21, 2011 7:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Regardless,
I’m sure this took a good amount of your personal time. I don’t speak for everyone, but I’m sure they’d all agree when I say thank you for putting this all together. Thorough, intelligent, realistic writing like this is why I come back to MHR.
by BroncofaninBK on Oct 21, 2011 7:22 PM MDT up reply actions
The Broncos discussion has been all Tebow/Orton/Offense...
Since we hava defensive minded head coach and DC in Dennis Allen, how about building a defense where the offense doesn’t have to out-score they’re opponent, but make enough points to win the game. Our defense is lacking in so many different ways and all we can talk about is how many games does Tebow deserve to start? Build the defense and Tebow will win us games, way more than they lose, but no offense can keep up with teams scoring 30+ points every week on us…Just won’t work and I am tire of playing catch up and trying to outscore everybody…
Yep...if TT keeps averaging 25 our D only needs to be average to keep us in games...another couple of drafts and this team should be looking good.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
Kyle Orton - Thanks for the memories....I guess???
Agreed, but I've been saying that since Plummer was here
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Oct 21, 2011 10:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Max, I can't wait to read this in it's entirety later
My Mountaineers got SMOKED and I’m feeling like crap on top of it. I think you and I have talked about some of this before, and if your stance is the same, I agree that Tebow’s career here shouldn’t be judged on just the remainder of this year only. I think he deserves a shot next year as well….. I’d honestly rather see him than Luck at this point.
"John Fox knows more about football than you, having said that, Kyle Orton still sucks!!!"
"F it dude, at least we're not the Queefs!!!"
"Kyle Orton to St. Louie for a 5th?"
Boy howdy! Syracuse put a thumpin' on those boys...
As the rest of the season goes, I think we will be drafting around 9-10 next year.
defense, running game, good st’s and tim tebow. how can ya lose with that? td’s, it’s all about the points. tebow=td’s. 3rd-2…first down. this has been an issue forever, ‘til now. and then there’s this:
"Champ Bailey -"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!" (NFL Network Open Locker Room interview) – Taylor Kopeinkin.
like moreno(the bust) channeling his inner eric dickerson for a 28-yard td. is there a stat for that? the man simply energizes the entire team, and crowd. a few games with our returning wideouts(and the 1st-string offense) ought to improve his accuracy. what was peyton’s accuracy rating after his first 3-4 games? the average? not worried about it long-term, if they stick with him.
taste my blintzkrieg!
the 3-man rush is an admission of lunacy, cowardice, and defeat-please stop.
by davecheffy on Oct 21, 2011 9:52 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Great work Max!
You always impress with your ability to crunch stats and gather information for us. Every time I try that it gets exhausting so I know how much work you put in for us. Thanks and rec’d for sure.
GB2
Tulogit to quit.
Thanks
And can I say your post was fantastic, I called you out and you just slapped me in the face, can’t say “rec’d” enough.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Oct 21, 2011 10:09 PM MDT up reply actions
So please, when someone says something critical about Tebow’s play, they aren’t saying it because he’s Christian or because we are biased or want him to fail, it’s likely just because they see a flaw in his play or have doubts.
Are you serious??? Did you really just say that? Am I from a different planet?
There are two reasons people don't like Tim Tebow....
1. His faith (which he wears on his sleeve as much or more as anyone else in the NFL).
2. His unique QB style
If you assert more reasons or take away from one of those reasons, you are living in an Orwellian universe.
I think Maxwell was speaking overall....
In society, the extremists are the loudest voices….the masses most likely fall under the type Maxwell mentioned.
I haven't met you, so maybe
But outside the internet, how often do you meet people who don’t like Tebow because of his faith? And in response to you reply, why don’t people not like Colt McCoy or Brian Dawkins, both who are just as open about their faith, if not moreso?
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Oct 21, 2011 10:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Actually,
I never saw McCoy or Dawkins putting Bible verses on their eye black, their Dad’s being a Pastor, born in a foreign country as a missionary’s son, and being a similar ambassador of their faith. I’m not saying Tebow’s faith is greater, I’m just saying it is more open and more well known.
Follow them on Twitter
Or read McCoy’s book or go to their websites. Heck I follow a preacher on Twitter and he posts less scripture than Dawk does.
Either way, I’m speaking from experience as someone who works with a variety of people across the US, obviously people can have opposing experiences.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Oct 21, 2011 10:28 PM MDT up reply actions
I follow Bdawk and you are correct...
However his Twitter following is nowhere near the following Tebow has nor the publicity. 95% of NFL fans are most likely unaware of Dawkins faith and how often he puts it out there on Twitter. But with Tebow, 100% of football fans know his religious background.
by knoepke84 on Oct 21, 2011 11:58 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
This is the point.
Tebow is judged as the outspoken Christian athlete. McCoy and Dawkins are not. Who knows why Tebow ended being the face of Christian athletics. But he is. Anyone who claims not to recognize this is not being intellectually honest.
Oh, you were finished? Oh, well, allow me to retort!
--Jules Winnfield
by GrizBronc on Oct 22, 2011 12:13 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
The merest hint or appearance of proselytizing tends to make Americans uncomfortable. Hare-Krishas dancing and singing in religious bliss at the airport, Jehovah’s Witnesses going door-to-door handing out leaflets. Ironic signature and avatar by the way.
by cosBroncosFan on Oct 22, 2011 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions
I honestly don't know his religious background
Most of the details in the thread discussion are news (and entirely incidental) to me.
by cosBroncosFan on Oct 22, 2011 1:38 PM MDT up reply actions
great post, if only for the work you put in it
I think these 11 games will be enough for Tebow to say,“i’m a starter,” or “i’m a backup.”
Wins are ok, but not the most important stat for a rookie QB. TD/TO ratio is one of the biggest. comp % and yards/game come in second. And consistency ties it all together.
Cam Newton is a good example of what everyone is looking for in a rookie QB. He surprised everyone with a 400 yard game and then followed it up with another one. He SO FAR has shown that he is capable, but like Sam Bradford last year(looked good last year, not so good this year,) he needs to follow it up with a good year next year. No matter what Tebow does this year, he will need to follow it up with a good year next year. After maybe 3 years is when a QB has "secured " his starting job. The only free pass would be a conference championship or a super bowl(big ben and tom brady.)
The bias against Tebow is real, but it is overinflated. I have read comments where someone says “god bless” and someone immediately responds “keep god out of this.” I know peoples anonymity online tends to makes them more cruel, condescending, and bigoted, but there still is a bit of a backlash against religious people. However, I think for the most part Tebow hasn’t shown anything in the NFLTebow is a HUGE question mark. THAT is why he is debated so much. Nobody debates if P. Manning is a good QB or not, or if he should be the starter or not. The religious/political debate on Tebow just makes for good TV, it is irrelevant here.
As far as Tebow’s style of play…I think he WILL take less sacks and convert more 3rd downs. THAT is where his intangibles will be obvious. The other QB’s you used Don’t have Tebows drive, they will take more sacks and wont convert like you said. As for getting hurt, I am worried about that, but Tebow wont miss a lot of games, cause he will fight to get back out there.
I totally agree that wins aren't the only, or best measure of a QB
But it is very rare to see a QB not win and continue to keep their job, at least at Tebow’s level, as for guys who are top 5 picks, like Alex Smith or Cam Newton, since you were taken so high, your team is going to have much more patience. Thanks for your thoughts.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Oct 22, 2011 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions
my point is wins dont need to come...at first
CAm will need to start winning, but he gets a first season pass, as long as he plays well
Oh I agree wins don't matter this season for Cam
But a big point I mentioned in the post was that it’s a combination of their first two seasons, if Cam can’t win next year, he probably be in a bit of hot water, also remember he’s a #1 pick, Tebow is not, so he’s going to get more time just because the economics invested.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
hey thanks we needed another tebow post....
He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which.
Douglas Adams
lol
Always the jokester!!!! ;-)
"John Fox knows more about football than you, having said that, Kyle Orton still sucks!!!"
"F it dude, at least we're not the Queefs!!!"
"Kyle Orton to St. Louie for a 5th?"
Elway
I think Bolen is stepping away a little more and Elway will be assuming more control. I don’t have any emotion over the whole quarterback issue. I think Elway wants more of a pure pocket passer from what he says. I don’t think he wants to mold Tebow I think he wants to mold somebody who has the pocket passer skills already .But I’ve been wrong about every Broncos move for years now. I thought we needed D tackles from our Drafts
14 YEARS
I believe that TT desrves 14 years of starts or 4 Superbowl losses or 5 straight years of below .500 before we punt him. Then and only then should we kick him to the gutter.
Sports Science…where were you when sport was created. When did we start listening to a computer to find out if an athlete was all good to go. When did sports science start telling us…this guy has heart.
How do you measure determination…computer i can’t hear you.
Whatever happened to “this guy looks pretty good lets give him a go”.
I am so sick of all the 2011 techno/cosmo/fuko stuff that goes around just so people can get payed s*%t loads to express their BS opinions. Can I say TOO MUCH MONEY FLOATING IN THE MEDIA!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sport has lost its way in the NFL and a guy like Tim Tebow is all about SPORT.
C’mon Sport take us to the top…LET’S GO BRONCOS
by Downunder Thunder on Oct 22, 2011 5:48 AM MDT reply actions 4 recs
Jealous
I wish I lived with the fire in me that most you guys show for this whole quarterback thing. If there was this much emotion over capital punishment or poverty I think there would be big changes in this country. Maybe I’m just getting old, I Iove the Broncos, but I think anyone on the team can be replaced
by Baghdad on Oct 22, 2011 7:52 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree with you there
But there are some I’d rather not replace.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Oct 22, 2011 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions
Inflated Expectations
Great article!
Looking at the QBs who have been drafted in the late 1st through 2nd round, I think that almost everyone, from us Bronco fans through the media to all the Tebow haters are placing unrealistic expectations on Tebow.
Evidence – over the past 20 years only two QBs have been drafted in similar postions and become NFL championship quality starters. A couple others have been good enough to lead team to the playoffs and a couple more have yet to write their stories, but overall, there is about a 10% chance that Tebow will be the QB to lead a team to the promised land.
The way everyone talks is that he was a #1 pick expected to be one of the 10 best QBs of all time and if he’s not…FAILURE! Right now, going off statistics, he is a long shot to be a star. Do his intangibles make me more likely to bet on his success, sure, he is a leader and a winner at the college level, so that helps tilt his odds. Does his happy feet and tendency to lock onto the first progression hurt his odds, yup. Overall, he might succeed or he might not, only time will tell. I know that I’ll be glued to the tele watching him regardless of his success. He wears the Broncos uniform, so I cheer!
by canuckbronco on Oct 22, 2011 8:12 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for your thoughts
And I agree that there are some overhyped expectations. Especially when you look at other quarterbacks taken around Tebow, most never become long term starters, that’s not to say Tebow can’t, I sure as heck hope he does.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Oct 22, 2011 10:09 AM MDT up reply actions
Good article,
I have watched every snap he’s taken since college, and he will surprise you with how often he will get the needed first down, avoid the sack, and make good decisions. Those things are hard to quantify.
A lot of haters don’t like him because he shines a light on where they fall short, they then hunt for the legit reasons to bash him. another reason a lot of people hate him its momentum from hating an sec rival, or from the losing team in the nc.
He only needs to look promising and improving for him to keep the starting gig.
by TheMascotArmy on Oct 22, 2011 12:16 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Very entertaining, but surprisingly hard to read
- The argument presented in "Deserves Number of Starts" is very hard to follow.
- The "Bias Against the Man" section will not persuade those who adhere to the belief. If it doesn’t persuade them, is that OK?
- The "Strengths and Weaknesses of Tebow’s Play" section was difficult because the earlier section was so stats-driven. So it was kind of jarring to read conclusions about strengths and weaknesses without the usual stats, numbers, anecdotes.
Anyways, I enjoyed it.
It is definitely good to have more perspectives on a player that is famous as Tim Tebow. This gives a great deal more insight then normal as we can see hard numbers instead of what the media puts out there.
Halloween world
Christian
I believe in God but don’t go to church. I worked with alot of born agains at a company and they were more agressive than any other place I worked. I learned that there was nothing weak about them and they didn’t turn the other cheek.













































