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Tebow and the Pyrrhic Victory

MIAMI GARDENS, FL - OCTOBER 23: Denver Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow sits on the bench during the second half of an NFL football game against the Miami Dolphins, Sunday, Oct. 23, 2011, in Miami. (Lynne Sladky - AP)

In 280 BC and again in 279 BC King Pyrrhus or Epirus twice battled the Romans during the Pyrrhic War. The two battles at Heraclea and Asculum both proved victorious as Pyrrhus won twice. He beat the Romans twice.

Somewhere along the lines as the Denver Broncos beat the winless Miami Dolphins I believe the media and some of the fans forgot all about the San Diego Chargers game.

Calling the Dolphins winless every time one mentions the Broncos victory is like referring to a black player as well spoken. It's a slap in the face (and racist if you are talking about a player), it is taking away from what was accomplished by those that were actually in the ring.

When Matt Willis was pushed out of the back of the end zone in Denver's final play against the Chargers it should have been called, had the interference not have happened at all there is a 15-1 chance Willis catches the ball and scores a touchdown. However, as a famous former Denverite said, 'Statistics are for losers,'.

If Willis had scored against San Diego, Denver goes from a game where Miami was 3 1/2 point favorite against the spread, to a team that is heavily favored against the Dolphins. Anyone remember that the Broncos weren't favored to beat the Dolphins? Even Las Vegas thought the Broncos would lose. Las Vegas hardly loses.

One thing King Pyrrhus didn't do was lose, Tim Tebow doesn't lose, but drawing comparisons between the two... That's not where I am going with this.

Star-divide

Amidst chants of, "Tebow sucks!" from the crowd in Miami Tebow came off the bench and did what he always does, he proved it.

He did suck, flat out, as nearly every single analyst said today, 'For the first 57 minutes.'

They would then go on to say, 'But he was brilliant for three!'

Then came the backhand: Tebow lacks throwing ability, the lame duck (or drunken pigeon), the over-throws, the under-throws, lacking proper mechanics, one receiver looks, how he should stay in the pocket, no poise, lack of vision, over anxious, underwhelming; venomous critiques just booming through fans television screens, radio speakers and head phones.

Here is something else that you probably already know, Tebow's 15 point rally is something that no one in the NFL has done since 1970.

He is Willie Beamon wrapped in a velvet glove. A warrior poet who as Peter King repeats may be the savior of American sports. What is so wrong with a good guy whose only fault is a wide throwing motion, over/under throws, an occasional drunken pigeon (wounded duck, thank you to The New Yorker) and possible sainthood?

The man can flat out ball and there may not be anyone in the history of the NFL that I'd rather have at quarterback in the last two minutes of a football game than Tebow (I said it). The victory against the Dolphins on the day that those very Dolphins were celebrating Tim Tebow's Florida Gators was the day that Tebow finally graduated being a Gator and became a Denver Bronco.

Oh, back to King Pyrrhus, so he's batting 1.000 against the mighty Roman empire at this point in my story correct? Pretty impressive, the Romans suffered greater deaths than Pyrrhus army did. However, the Romans had a gigantic empire of men from which to draw soldiers, so their casualties did less damage to their war effort than Pyrrhus's casualties did to his.

As Pyrrhus said upon returning following his decimating second straight victory against Rome, "Another such victory and I come back to Epirus alone." The critics are overwhelmingly right, but for how long can they stand to be right before Tebow proves them all wrong?

Tebow is the media's Pyrrhic victory.

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If the 2006 curse

i.e., the bad karma that resulted from Jake Plummer’s benching in favor of crybaby Cutler was the “loss” incurred, then yes, a pyrrhic victory is propitious for once!

Brad James

Follow me on Twitter

With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!

by the new Bradfather on Oct 25, 2011 11:04 AM MDT reply actions   1 recs

Knowing only what I knew at that point in time I would have made the change from

Plummer to Cutler also. Plummer was doing some of the same things that got Orton benched, making untimely bad decisions, even during the year before when they went to the AFC championship game, I felt we should have been in the Super bowl that year but for some of his bad decisions. Now, knowing what I know about Cutler, in hindsight, the move was, at best a neutral move but not necessarily a net loss move.

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."

by rubincarterrocks on Oct 25, 2011 1:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

No QB could've gotten us past Pittsburgh that year

Roethlisberger was on fire and his receivers were so dialed into his timing. I don’t know if any defense could’ve contained them that day.

www.rhunekincaid.com

by YouAreSignedIn on Oct 25, 2011 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

No way

The 4 turnovers generated by Pitt set up all those Roethlisberger TDs. Their D won it if anything else.

"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby

by Calikula on Oct 25, 2011 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

no way man

plummer had us at 13-3 and in the AFC championship.
he had us at 7-4 the following year

cant do plummer like that, no way

POP POP!!!

by Tollyvolley127 on Oct 25, 2011 2:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

I hear ya but that 7-4 was a scary one. We were built at that time

to win a SB and should have had a much better record. We started out 5-1 but over the next 5 games went 1-4 including a four game losing streak which brought about QB change. Plummer was playing extremely erratic and just making dumb decisions. We were def. heading in the wrong direction.

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."

by rubincarterrocks on Oct 25, 2011 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

I would agree but I don't put all the blame on Plummer

Plummer never had a great relationship with Shanny; his relationship was with Kubiak.

i believe losing his friend Patrick Tillman and then losing his ally in Kubiak really affected Plummer personally and professionally. Shanny might have recognized this and drafted Cutler as insurance or drafting Cutler might have been the final straw. All of this added up to a lack of desire to play the game.

I feel that management Shanny Bowlen whoever should have tried to help Plummer with those difficult issues in his life. Had they supported him and helped him he probably would have led us to a super bowl that year.

Looking back one thing I am still upset about is how the NFL punished him for his support of Tillman. And yet now players can wear pink gloves and socks (not that i am against supporting cancer ) just feel like its very much a double standard.

by trumanj on Oct 25, 2011 3:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

The thing is

Plummer got us nearly as many wins in that one season as Orton did in the last 2 1/2. Yeah, he hit a slump but to compare Plummer’s situation to Orton’s is quite a stretch. Benching Plummer was bad JuJu.

"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe

by CH74 on Oct 25, 2011 3:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

I've read a lot of Plummer love recently

How about all those go back and watch that 7-4 team. Go remember. You know what you’ll see? A QB that CAN NOT THROW. The only thing the Snake was good for at the end was play action naked bootleg wing it.

55.2% 1994 yards 11td 13 int

You know what? Those stats aren’t good. Snake sucked late; we were lucky to win some of those games, and with Cutler having a King arm, there was no reason not to. Snake gets you to playoffs, maybe. Cutler gave you a chance for more.

by Gelder on Oct 25, 2011 10:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

I remember...

…that what I saw from Orton the first of this year looked like what I saw from Jake that year. Anemic offense – no spark.

by MakeCents on Oct 26, 2011 12:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

Nice analogy and great read

I can’t wait until Merrill Hoge looks around and finds himself scared and alone. Or maybe with a wounded Colin Cowherd looking up at him with tears in his eyes finally admitting they were wrong.

None of us go out and play for stats. You just do whatever you can to help the team out. -- Eddie Royal

by Poster_Formerly_Known_As_Royal_Fan on Oct 25, 2011 11:22 AM MDT reply actions  

bleep you Colin CowTurd

with all due respect…

Brad James

Follow me on Twitter

With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!

by the new Bradfather on Oct 25, 2011 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

LOL

I can just picture Cowherd cowering on the floor, looking up to Hoge to save him.

I think I have good ideas sometimes. I just suck at communicating them.

by Jason Witte on Oct 25, 2011 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

Thank you

Thank you very much, I appreciate you reading it!

"A man without enemies is a man without qualities." Al Capone

"Literature is an occupation in which you have to keep proving your talent to people who have none." - Jules Renard.

by IanHenson on Oct 25, 2011 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

When that day for Hoge comes, (and it will) the video of it needs to be a permanent addition to the front page.

How do you spell television ratings? T-E-B-O-W. At least more Bronco games will likely be on national broadcast.

by improv88 on Oct 25, 2011 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

AMEN!

Where is Colin Cowherd’s recanting of his radio show diatribe against Tim Tebow where he SAID > That Tebow had NO respect in the locker room?
  I cannot believe that he did NOT KNOW that was a LIE then or NOW..

 WHO IS THE FATHER OF LIES? AND WHY DOES hE AND Colin Cowherd – BOTH
                          HATE TIM TEBOW?

  DOES IT REALLY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH FOOTBALL?

by 7wombat on Oct 25, 2011 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

CowTurd is the devil

can you supply any tangible evidence that he is not?

Brad James

Follow me on Twitter

With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!

by the new Bradfather on Oct 25, 2011 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Here's the thing

I have no idea why you would think he has any football credibility, I heard the guy on a local Portland talk show before he got called into ESPN, his football knowledge is predicated on watching Oregon Ducks and OSU Beaver games, he didn’t even watch Seahawk or pro ball so to speak there, the guy thought Derek Anderson was the greatest QB coming out of college and that Joey Harrington was going to be a stud, if the guy isn’t from Oregon, he knows nothing about the kid.

"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman

by Broncoman on Oct 25, 2011 4:57 PM MDT up reply actions  

It was great poise by Tebow, but...

…let’s not pretend that rally was entirely “Tebow’s.” That onside kick was incredibly crucial for the rally to even have a chance.

That Tebow and the rest of the team capitalized is certainly a testament to Timmy. But I’d rather call the historic 15-point comeback in the final 3 minutes a testament to the whole Bronco squad, and not just crediting Tim Tebow.

by neumdaddy on Oct 25, 2011 11:24 AM MDT reply actions   1 recs

Er, Department of Redundancy Department?

I wrote “testament” in two consecutive sentences, even kinda contradictorily, too. Bah.

I think I meant to say the comeback reflects well on both Tim and the team, but I feel like the team’s effort is slightly being overshadowed by Tim’s work. So while I’m excited Tebow had said poise, I want to see more games where he puts in higher-quality 4-quarter efforts.

by neumdaddy on Oct 25, 2011 11:26 AM MDT up reply actions  

I apologize

I in no means meant to credit the entire thing to Tebow. As John Fox pointed out, the Broncos should have gone into halftime with six points as it is. Sure, the on-side kick, DJ Williams sack/fumble and the recovery. The stops in halftime, Matt Prater’s great 52 yarder all made for a great ending.

My larger point is that the brilliance of the team can continue to be taken away, but once you’ve said every negative thing that there is to say and Denver led by Tebow continue to show and prove, what’s been lost? The credibility of the journalist/analyst. What’s to be said then?

"A man without enemies is a man without qualities." Al Capone

"Literature is an occupation in which you have to keep proving your talent to people who have none." - Jules Renard.

by IanHenson on Oct 25, 2011 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions  

It is a team game

but it is ludicrous to suggest Tebow does not galvanize this team’s performance, you see the antithesis of this with Peyton Manning out of the Colts’ lineup. No, when Peyton is healthy, he doesn’t do EVERYTHING, but his presence and excellence inspires the ranks, something Orton obviously never did, that’ s why he’s outta here whenever our season ends

Brad James

Follow me on Twitter

With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!

by the new Bradfather on Oct 25, 2011 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

No one is arguing with that

However, can you look anyone in the face and tell me that either of the other QBs on the roster could have made that comeback? Orton, who has never led a comeback of more than 7 points IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER, or Brady who is so permanently scarred from being a Brown that he probably sees a 15 point deficit as “a pretty good game”? Not a shot.

The onside kick was every bit as essential as either TD or the 2-pt conversion, but at the end of the day the most important single player to the comeback was Tebow – if for nothing else than making his teammates believe that it could be done.

How do you spell television ratings? T-E-B-O-W. At least more Bronco games will likely be on national broadcast.

by improv88 on Oct 25, 2011 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

the brady quinn part....hahahaha

"Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work as hard"-Tim Tebow

by Tuscani on Oct 25, 2011 12:51 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions   2 recs

+1!

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."

by rubincarterrocks on Oct 25, 2011 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hell yes on agreement!

"Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work as hard"-Tim Tebow

by Tuscani on Oct 25, 2011 5:28 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Tim Tebow is the word of the week and the victory is bittersweet especially to the media...

Tebow’s baby steps won’t be impeded by naysayers or haters, the warwagon is on the move and there is no stopping it now. Man up and get on board…There will be blood letting before this is all over…

by bfree2bronc on Oct 25, 2011 11:24 AM MDT reply actions   3 recs

This is awesome
There will be blood letting before this is all over…

I love some of the analogies you guys are throwing out.

I’m on the ‘warwagon’ but closer to the edge. I hope to move closer to the center as the weeks go by.

I think I have good ideas sometimes. I just suck at communicating them.

by Jason Witte on Oct 25, 2011 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

Enjoyed the read.........

but I think I’d still take old number 7 first, last, or any minute.

by greubsny on Oct 25, 2011 11:30 AM MDT reply actions  

Early days my friend...early days!

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Oct 25, 2011 11:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

I am a huge Elway fan

And until/if Elway passes the crown, he’ll continue to be the comeback king.

"A man without enemies is a man without qualities." Al Capone

"Literature is an occupation in which you have to keep proving your talent to people who have none." - Jules Renard.

by IanHenson on Oct 25, 2011 11:34 AM MDT up reply actions  

Great article John...

The warring between the pro and anti tebow factions, both here on MHR and generally going to get worse before it gets better….unless Tebow just lights it up for a full game. it will be interesting to see where we sit next week. A victory over the Lions, one game out of the lead of the AFC West, and Tebow sitting with a record of 3-2 could really change things up.
I wont bet against Tebow! his appalling play for 57 minutes is only going to supr him to more greatness!

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Oct 25, 2011 11:33 AM MDT reply actions   1 recs

Sorry...I got the tweet from John...GREAT ARTICLE IAN!

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Oct 25, 2011 11:42 AM MDT reply actions  

Thanks Boydy =)

"A man without enemies is a man without qualities." Al Capone

"Literature is an occupation in which you have to keep proving your talent to people who have none." - Jules Renard.

by IanHenson on Oct 25, 2011 12:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

That's an awesome picture.

Can I change my avatar to it, or is it proprietary?

but for how long can they stand to be right before Tebow proves them all wrong?

I will say that, for some, Tebow will never prove them wrong. I just hope that he plays well over the next 10 games and proves to EFX that he can be the QB of the future so that we can NOT draft a QB in the first round next year.

I think I have good ideas sometimes. I just suck at communicating them.

by Jason Witte on Oct 25, 2011 11:46 AM MDT reply actions  

Jason

Feel free to use it. The photoshopping is all ours.

"A man without enemies is a man without qualities." Al Capone

"Literature is an occupation in which you have to keep proving your talent to people who have none." - Jules Renard.

by IanHenson on Oct 25, 2011 12:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

Winning Ugly?

Love the Willie Beamon reference. Hope Tebow can learn to avoid sacks and how to play more in the pocket. Really happy that the d is showing improvement. Nice article, go Broncos!

by Baghdad on Oct 25, 2011 11:52 AM MDT reply actions  

I was hoping someone would catch that.

Thanks for the compliment.

"A man without enemies is a man without qualities." Al Capone

"Literature is an occupation in which you have to keep proving your talent to people who have none." - Jules Renard.

by IanHenson on Oct 25, 2011 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

Coolest picture ever?

Great analogy. I loved it.

..We're 2-14 till we're not!
They say the cool is all over me..

by Teboner on Oct 25, 2011 11:53 AM MDT reply actions   1 recs

Feel free to use it

We only get to use it once, but for you it can be anything =)

"A man without enemies is a man without qualities." Al Capone

"Literature is an occupation in which you have to keep proving your talent to people who have none." - Jules Renard.

by IanHenson on Oct 25, 2011 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

My man

Jim Rome is drinking the Tebow Kool-Aid, predicting the Internet will break if the Broncos beat the Lions Sunday, let’s shatter some cyberspace!

Brad James

Follow me on Twitter

With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!

by the new Bradfather on Oct 25, 2011 11:53 AM MDT reply actions  

The internet will break..

I love that. We should headline with that if the Broncos win.

"A man without enemies is a man without qualities." Al Capone

"Literature is an occupation in which you have to keep proving your talent to people who have none." - Jules Renard.

by IanHenson on Oct 25, 2011 12:09 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks buddy =)

"A man without enemies is a man without qualities." Al Capone

"Literature is an occupation in which you have to keep proving your talent to people who have none." - Jules Renard.

by IanHenson on Oct 25, 2011 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions  

Remain True Fans

I just ask that when Tebow and the Broncos stumble we remain supportive. It is seriously depressing when everyone gets down on the team after a loss and then rebounds after a win. We should be supportive no matter what. Constructive criticism is different that just being critical, ie. Merrile Hodge.

by MajorG on Oct 25, 2011 12:20 PM MDT reply actions  

You don't have to tell me that

I’ve been in Bronco Country since I knew who they were!

Brad James

Follow me on Twitter

With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!

by the new Bradfather on Oct 25, 2011 12:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

While I agree with the gist of the post

I do need to point out that Vegas picking the Dolphins to win has nothing to do with Vegas thinking the Dolphins will win. Vegas made money on the Broncos game. Their odds are based entirely on how they think bets will come in— and they adjust the line based on what bets do come in. When LA had the Rams, the Rams were consistently favored in games they were expected to lose purely because of the huge volume of LA Rams fans in Nevada.

The rest of your post has a lot of merit to it, but I just thought I would clear up that common misconception. Popularity can swing a line quite a bit— in fact— I wouldn’t be surprised to see Denver favored in games they shouldn’t be purely do to “The Tebow Effect”.

by M1911 on Oct 25, 2011 12:35 PM MDT reply actions  

nice you can do your own copy editing!

Brad James

Follow me on Twitter

With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!

by the new Bradfather on Oct 25, 2011 12:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

thats the problem with critics though

People love you when you win and totally ignore or ridicule you when you lose. Enjoy this feeling now Bronco fans, because if the Broncos continue to lose and Tebow struggles, you will never stop hearing about ut on ESPN.

The media loves to talk about Tebow, good or bad, but now they talk like he’s the second coming of Elway or something. I mean no disrespect but Denver came back at the end of an ugly game to beat a winless team in Tebow’s home state of Florida. There wasn’t much hostility in the air as the Dolphins basically have hardly any fans left so it was a home game for Tebow. He made plays at the end to win it, but let’s not forget how the first 3 1/2 qtrs went.

The Broncos looked awful. Tebow couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. They looked like a high school team out there and not prepared to win, though they did. Let me ask you this, what better defines Tebow, the first 3 1/2 qtrs or the last 6mins?

Think about it for awhile, do you think Tebow could do that against a team with a winning record and a decent defense?

Its hard for me to say yes. I just don’t see Tebow becoming what he was at Florida, he’s lacking a big part of what makes quarterbacks successful. Let’s hope for your sake that he doesn’t have to do any more late game heroics, it may not end as well against a better team.

From 0-16 to the Superbowl baby!

by DLions4Eva on Oct 25, 2011 12:48 PM MDT via mobile reply actions  

We'll see

I’ll be at Pride of Detroit later on to talk to you guys

Brad James

Follow me on Twitter

With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!

by the new Bradfather on Oct 25, 2011 12:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

Good thing I never listen to the Extraordinary Stupid People Network then!

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Oct 25, 2011 2:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

To quote an NFL quarterback

’ppreciate that!

"He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors." ~ Thomas Jefferson.

I don’t suffer from insanity – I enjoy every minute of it!

by Broncos 'n Scotch (BS) on Oct 25, 2011 2:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

Respect for the Lions this year man. Good stuff, at least for the first five weeks.

But I disagree with you on how the media is talking about Tebow right now. There are a few talking heads that are on the Tebow warwagon at least this week; Skip Bayless, who is now my favorite ESPNer, and Deion on NFL Network, but most of the media are saying, “Yeah they won, but…(insert opinion here)”.

Never let them see you bleed.

by the_prodigal_fan on Oct 25, 2011 4:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

Ive heard a lot from Chris Berman and company

On how good Tebow could be, a few people in the media also seems to think he could develop into something so its kinda 50-50 right now as opposed to 0-100 like its been since he’s been drafted. I am with the general consensus on I don’t think he will ever be an elite quarterback, but he could be one of the best football players Denver ever had though.

Beating Detroit would help his argument, but losing badly while looking bad would just prove everybody right that we wasn’t ever going to be a starting qb in the NFL anyways. I mean, Tebow is the most hyped up quarterback for somebody who’s accomplished ZERO in the NFL. Seems like he gets more press because people love him for who he is, not what he can do on the field. He sells jerseys and tickets based on what he did in college and the people who want to see him defy the odds.

Tell me again why people care so much about a guy who has done so little in the NFL?

From 0-16 to the Superbowl baby!

by DLions4Eva on Oct 25, 2011 6:15 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Tell me why we care what a Detroit Lion's fan cares about our QB? You have no knowledge of our team all players...much like the MSM....and yes, I am being a dick ...

Accomplished nothing….2 4th quarter comebacks in 4 starts…both of them record breaking….OK…sorry we dont have to Mr Fricking Glass Stafford leading us….we will try harder next time.
Once again, tell me why we care what you think?

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Oct 25, 2011 6:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

You shouldnt care at all what I think

I’m just giving you Bronco fans a unbiased opinion, that’s all. And no, Tebow still hasn’t done anything for the record. 2-2 record means nothing, stats mean nothing if they don’t amount to wins, sorry if that upsets you, but its true. Comebacks are nice, but if its just to help your team from having a top-5 pick then it means nothing.

Beating my team would go a long way in winning me over on Tebow though. We’ve struggled agains 2 of the winning teams we’ve played other than Chicago and Tampa Bay, but came up short at the end despite that, but we are 3-0 on the road and 3-0 against teams with losing record so at least we got that going for us.

From 0-16 to the Superbowl baby!

by DLions4Eva on Oct 25, 2011 7:35 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Dont take this the wrong way, but I dont think Tebow, nor any of us, care whether he wins you over....you are not a fan of this team.

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Oct 27, 2011 6:57 AM MDT up reply actions  

Does San Diego count?

If so, then yes.

"A man without enemies is a man without qualities." Al Capone

"Literature is an occupation in which you have to keep proving your talent to people who have none." - Jules Renard.

by IanHenson on Oct 25, 2011 12:51 PM MDT reply actions  

Rookie mistake

That was in reply to DLions4Eva, not to take away from your well thought out post though.

"A man without enemies is a man without qualities." Al Capone

"Literature is an occupation in which you have to keep proving your talent to people who have none." - Jules Renard.

by IanHenson on Oct 25, 2011 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

people need to remember that mid season QB changes are difficult

whether you get the by or not it’s a hard adjustment. Especially for #88 coming back after not playing ball for a decade due to injuries.

I look for the timing and communication to be much better this week.

World beaters? Probably not, but definitely look for Tebow to maintain or elevate his 94.4 QB rating.

Chuck Norris once asked Tim Tebow for advice on martial arts.

by prototype on Oct 25, 2011 1:21 PM MDT reply actions  

Win is a win

Tebow and the Broncos won the game, nothing else matters.

SPORTS-GLORY.com

by Sports-Glory on Oct 25, 2011 1:29 PM MDT reply actions  

Okay.

But it’s gonna matter next week then the Lions come to town.

Tim Tebow Built My Hot Rod.

by TheMastermind on Oct 25, 2011 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

It will not matter if we win.

Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.

by BroncoMath101 on Oct 25, 2011 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

Kid is gonna have to play better.

WAY better. Consistently, and not just once in a while, to be successful. That’s the bottom line. Every time Tebow throws one pretty pass out of 10 ducks, the Kool Aid drinkers shout:

“SEE? WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE CAN’T THROW?!?!?”

Well, anybody can throw. And any QB in America can throw a great pass once in a while. But doing it consistently is the key. Having good pocket presence consistently is the key. Poor footwork plays into a lot of things, including your release and accuracy, and being good consistently is the key to long tern success.

If we’d been playing the Chargers or the Jets or the Patriots, we’d have lost by 50 points Sunday. And if you think that’s over the top, we’ll see – because we play all of those teams later this year.

If any quarterback other than Tim Tebow played that poorly for 55 minutes – win or lose – there would be an almost universal questioning of his fitness to play the game.

But not Tebow. He’s magic. Suddenly it doesn’t matter if a quarterback can throw, because it’s Tim Tebow.

When he’s got the ball in his hands he’s got great instincts, as long as you don’t ask him to throw it on time, accurately, consistently. You know, the primary functions of a quarterback.

The kid would make a sensational tight end. But right now he’s a terrible QB. Sure, we won the game Sunday. That’s great. And if you think we should count on that happening every week, you’re dreaming.

Put the Kool Aid down and wake up. Expect more. Demand more. Because if it were any other player on the planet, you know you would.

Tim Tebow Built My Hot Rod.

by TheMastermind on Oct 25, 2011 1:49 PM MDT reply actions  

You are right. He definitely needs to improve and be consistent in order to find long term consistent success in this league.

He has 10 games to do it. I think he will personally as long as the coaching staff shows some more flexibility and allows a game plan to play to his strengths while he develops the other aspects of his game.

we need to run more shotgun and hurry up offense if he is going to be successful in the short term IMO and I don’t see anything wrong with doing that. Play to his strengths and we will see more of the 9-13, 128 yards, 2 TD than we will the 4-14, 40 yards, 0 TDS

Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.

by BroncoMath101 on Oct 25, 2011 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

Come on Deb, you're even bringing me down right now

You’re totally right about the first 55 minutes. And if that’s who Tebow turns out to be, then we’re in a lot of trouble. Even if you took the last five minutes and divided it evenly up among those 55 minutes, I can’t imagine anyone feeling that good about Tebow. But by looking at this as a half-empty glass, you’re missing the fact that Tebow played simply amazing for 5 straight minutes. All of the horribleness disappeared without a trace, and we saw what could be one of the top quarterbacks in the NFL. What’s left to find out is which one is Tebow. If it’s the 55 minute version, we need to replace him. If it’s a mixture of the two which somehow divided itself into two distinct versions, we need to replace him. But if the true Tebow was that guy who did the impossible and brought us back in a way that hasn’t been accomplished since 1970, we’ve got something special. He’s young, there will be growing pains. But if that five minutes we saw can grow itself into a 60 minute performance week in week out, then hold on to your seat because we’re going to have a wild ride for the next 15 years. And while I understand how it would be hard to imagine this happening, please don’t insult those of us who are hoping. Sometimes that’s all you have.

None of us go out and play for stats. You just do whatever you can to help the team out. -- Eddie Royal

by Poster_Formerly_Known_As_Royal_Fan on Oct 25, 2011 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

you need a new Deb then

Brad James

Follow me on Twitter

With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!

by the new Bradfather on Oct 25, 2011 2:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

Lol I was quoting Mr. Mackey from South Park

Ever since this clip, I can’t get that line out of my head.

None of us go out and play for stats. You just do whatever you can to help the team out. -- Eddie Royal

by Poster_Formerly_Known_As_Royal_Fan on Oct 25, 2011 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

+1 Agreed

Tebow can make plays, but I don’t envision him as a legit NFL quarterback. Sorry, he’s simply not a good quarterback. Great football player though.

From 0-16 to the Superbowl baby!

by DLions4Eva on Oct 25, 2011 2:02 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'm not going to make any predictions on how Tebow's going to play Sunday

All I know is that I would never underestimate him if my team was going up against his. I for one can’t wait to show the “Silver Crush” what the ORANGE CRUSH is all about.

None of us go out and play for stats. You just do whatever you can to help the team out. -- Eddie Royal

by Poster_Formerly_Known_As_Royal_Fan on Oct 25, 2011 2:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

Keep doubting....we are all starting to thrive on that now.

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Oct 25, 2011 2:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

Im not doubting Tebow

As I’ve stated before that he can make plays and Detroit is in a slump right now so any given Sunday, but from what I’ve seen, Tebow doesn’t have the accuracy or the decision making skills needed to be an elite franchise qb. I mean no disrespect,he has has every intangible needed but that doesn’t always get you where you need to be without the accuracy and decision making skills needed.

Tebow might win some games, maybe even this Sunday against the Lions, but he just is lacking the most important attributes and no amount of heart or will can cover that up. The proof is in the pudding.

From 0-16 to the Superbowl baby!

by DLions4Eva on Oct 25, 2011 3:14 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Meril is that you? or is this Carter......Keyshawn?

Chuck Norris once asked Tim Tebow for advice on martial arts.

by prototype on Oct 25, 2011 5:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

Dude

There is a reason so many people (though not as many as there was after last Sunday) are doubting Tebow. I mean, people don’t doubt players if they actully have everything needed to be a great qb. Its just obvious that Tebow probably won’t defy those steep odds, especially not on a losing team like the Broncos.

From 0-16 to the Superbowl baby!

by DLions4Eva on Oct 25, 2011 6:19 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

You're making a couple of erroneous assumptions 4Eva.

1) assuming that everything is static and he can’t or won’t improve is simply negative extrapolation. If anything he’s exceeded most norms for a 4 game starter. I’d recommend reading Ted Bartlett’s play by play analysis of Tebow’s pass plays in order to gain a better understanding. It’s in the FA shots section. After you read it feel free to let us know which plays you disagree with and maybe we can have a substantive dialogue.
2) Sorry, but I’m having just a little trouble digesting someone from one of the worst teams in the NFL over the last 15 years calling us a losing team. I know that as of right now the record is indeed a losing record. Just saying if you’re going to go into someone else’s house and talk junk don’t be surprised at what you get back.

"It was my fault we were behind to begin with and I'm just proud of my teammates for continuing to fight and believe and make the comeback possible"
Tebow- When asked how he was able to come from 15 points down with 3 minutes to go.

by asinsoin on Oct 26, 2011 12:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

Sorry FA shots = fanshots .

"It was my fault we were behind to begin with and I'm just proud of my teammates for continuing to fight and believe and make the comeback possible"
Tebow- When asked how he was able to come from 15 points down with 3 minutes to go.

by asinsoin on Oct 26, 2011 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

15yrs? Try over 50 years pal

15yrs is giving us too much credit. We are probably the worst team of all time or close to it honestly. I am not as biased as some people are, but Denver has been a losing team for about 5yrs now so they by classification are a losing team. We are 5-2 after 7 games and have a winning record…so far. We too are a losing team unless we get into the playoffs this year.

Look, I’ve talked this Tebow thing to death, as the media has also done, but I can’t help how I feel. I’ve seen Tebow at his best at Florida and a couple games in Denver and have seen his worst, which was most of his NFL action. He wasn’t born with the accuracy and decision making skills that an elite starting NFL qb has. Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, hell even Phillip Rivers have all shown that they do indeed have the accuracy and decision making skills needed to be elite. Does it mean they will be great every game? Of course not, people have good games and bad, but they have what it takes to be successful for an entire career, not just a few games here and there.

And that’s where the comparisons are made between the guys mentioned and Tim Tebow. Tebow has the same intangibles that the great ones do, but he wasn’t born with the GOD given talent that they were and I don’t believe that can improve. Either you got it or you don’t and he just doesn’t got “it”.

He can still win Denver games and make plays, but I don’t think we will ever be considered elite by any stretch of the word. Sorry if that upsets you Denver fans, as you probably hear that all the time, but there is a really good explanation for that. Its called they are probably right about Tebow.

From 0-16 to the Superbowl baby!

by DLions4Eva on Oct 26, 2011 12:45 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

mastermind. Dlions

how did he look when the chips were down? ya thought so…so if he is capable of such a high level of play even for a short time, as a young QB I EXPECT him to get better. He is not by any stretch of the imagination a terriable QB. He might be inconsistant but terriable implies your hating for the sake of hating. Lots of people dont envision him as a QB and yet here he is winning games, and what position is he playing? what leauge is this? we are going to win next week. I FN GUARANTEE IT!

by LC43EU on Oct 25, 2011 2:05 PM MDT reply actions  

Even I cant guarantee if the Lions will win

I’m just not confident that we will win. Tebow has playmaking ability and Denver seems to have a decent defense, I can even picture Tebow scrambling for a 60 yard touchdown or some crazy broken play or two goes in the Broncos favor and Tebow upsets the Lions. Man, I really can see the Broncos winning.

But, I can also see us blowing the Broncos completely out with Tebow getting 3 interceptions and 5+ sacks and Stafford hooks up with Johnson for a pair of touchdowns. This game would be crucial to win with the bye week approaching. I really hope we can bring a dose of reality to some of these Tebow lovers who seem to think he’s better than good right now. Let the guy get some wins under his belt and then we can talk.

Sunday would be a good start.

From 0-16 to the Superbowl baby!

by DLions4Eva on Oct 25, 2011 11:36 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions  

Let's continue to criticize Tim for winning us a game that our previous starting QB would have lost.

Let’s not forget Kyle had 2 horrible quarters of play against SD where he only passed for 36 yards.

Let’s not forget Joe Flacco didn’t score a TD until 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter, completed only 2-12 3rd down conversions, barely completed 50% of his passes, and his team only had 34 yards of total offense through 3 FULL quarter of football against a Jacksonville team that isn’t very good! And he, a veteran now with playoff experience couldn’t bring his team back from only a 9 point deficit to win!

Any given Sunday people! Tim played horrible for 3.5 quarters, THAT IS OBVIOUS. He did however help us come back and win the game. It was a team effort sure but he was accurate enough and scored enough in the RZ to give us a chance to win. (Not taking anything away from our huge defensive and ST plays – because they were also VITAL).

Tim needs to be given a chance to improve on the important things like accuracy and decision making and his drop backs. The criticism of why he can’t do it or why he is so horrible is ridiculous at this point. If in 10 games he is still not able to do it I’ll concede with the doubters and haters but at this point I am happy we won, happy he is clutch and hope that he will improve.

Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.

by BroncoMath101 on Oct 25, 2011 2:27 PM MDT reply actions  

I am pleased

KSTU-FOX 13 in Salt Lake City is airing Broncos-Lions this weekend so finally SLC is a Broncos market again! I hope KUTV (the CBS affiliate) learned its lesson after showing that six-interception slugfest where the Quiefs beat the Faiders!

Brad James

Follow me on Twitter

With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!

by the new Bradfather on Oct 25, 2011 2:38 PM MDT reply actions  

Heavy sigh.........

Perhaps orton would have made all those throws Tebow missed; perhaps not. Maybe Quinn would have- maybe not. But a good nfl QB has to make those throws for all 4 quarters- and tebow didn’t. He let his team down- but they pulled it out anyway, thanks to a conservative plan that made is a low scoring affair. I give this W to a running game and the D- special teams were poor, and our passing was so poor I couldn’t blame the coaches for not calling some passes.

Really- we looked bad against a bad team. I sure hope Tim can start making throws that are not against a prevent defense, or from the shotgun. Because if that is all he does, we are drafting a QB in the 1st round again. And starting all over again…….

by baselinedenver on Oct 25, 2011 2:39 PM MDT reply actions  

It was not prevent...but please keep sprouting it was prevent....anything to make your argument.

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Oct 25, 2011 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Watch the tape.

They were crowding the line with 8-9 all game, and then dropped back into a more normal coverage to prevent passing. You don’t make your point by ignoring what really happened.

by baselinedenver on Oct 25, 2011 3:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

a more "normal" as in "conventional"

is accurate, I watched the tape myself, however, I would scarcely call the prevent “normal.”

Brad James

Follow me on Twitter

With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!

by the new Bradfather on Oct 25, 2011 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

Rushing 4

With the Mike playing a “spy” is not a prevent. They would have been out of their minds to play a soft prevent with the running threat. The Dolphins were more concerned with Tebow gashing them with a big run than with him beating them with the pass. The offense adjusted and completed some big passes. Miami was playing a sound philosphy on defense for the situation and executed poorly, probably because they were lulled into complacency. They didn’t turn in a full 60 minutes and they paid the price!

"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe

by CH74 on Oct 25, 2011 4:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

And going from 8 or 9 in the box to a more conventional 4 man rush is not the prevent.

Unless as time passes, we see that people use this same formula against a Tebow-led offense, but that would just make it the “Tebow Prevent.” Actually, I kind of like the sound of that.

Never let them see you bleed.

by the_prodigal_fan on Oct 25, 2011 4:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Umm...lets start...prevent is built on rushing 3 and keeping 6 back....

Miami were rushing 4 and playing in the nickel. This was AGGRESSIVE play as they knew Tebow would have to throw to beat them. problem was, in those last 3 minutes Tebow threw well.

Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!

"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:

Champ Bailey.

by boydy2669 on Oct 25, 2011 7:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

Enoyed the post Ian..

.. well written and very much enjoyed. Keep it up! Rec’d.

"He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors." ~ Thomas Jefferson.

I don’t suffer from insanity – I enjoy every minute of it!

by Broncos 'n Scotch (BS) on Oct 25, 2011 2:59 PM MDT reply actions  

Read an interesting stat….Miami’s D…not as bad as we all might have thought. They are better than Green Bay and people are blowing smoke up Ponder’s butt. Their O stinks and that’s Miami’s problem.

by cdnbroncosfan on Oct 25, 2011 3:07 PM MDT reply actions  

Soliai, Kendall Langford

Koa Misi, Sean Smith, Karlos Dansby, those are some great defenders I think

Brad James

Follow me on Twitter

With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!

by the new Bradfather on Oct 25, 2011 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

I haven't watched the game again

but it sure seemed like their secondary had our receivers blanketed very well all game. I hope, if that’s the case, it was their coverage and not our receivers being able to separate.

by eastCOrange&Blue on Oct 25, 2011 3:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

The knock

On Miami’s D is actually their secondary, and that group was very thin with injuries for our game. Nate Jones anyone? Their front seven is actually a solid unit. If Tebow connects on a couple of the long balls he missed, the whole tempo of the game changes. We should have came out and attacked that weakness instead of trying to pound it into the heart and strength of their defense. The game plan did as much damage to the performance of the offense early on as did Tebow’s poor play.

"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe

by CH74 on Oct 25, 2011 4:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

I concur

Mike McCoy was our LVP, or LVC, least valuable coach

Brad James

Follow me on Twitter

With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!

by the new Bradfather on Oct 25, 2011 4:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thats hard to watch

For fans that are used to inovative game planning. There was a post a while back that said we needed a “Tim Tebow” for the defense; I think what we really need more is a “Dennis Allen” for the offense!

"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe

by CH74 on Oct 25, 2011 4:37 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

that shall suffice my friend!

Brad James

Follow me on Twitter

With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!

by the new Bradfather on Oct 25, 2011 4:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

I dunno what happened there

What I meant to say was, Thats hard to watch when you are a fan that is used to inovative game planning. There was a post a while back that stated the defense needed a “Tim Tebow”. What we probably need more than that is a "Dennis Allen for the offense!

"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe

by CH74 on Oct 25, 2011 4:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

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