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The right comparison: Tebow and Plummer

There is something a bit obvious the current discussion. If Tebow plays like he did in the last five minutes, he'll be great, but if plays as badly as he did in the first 55 minutes, he'll be a dud. Just take out the time references, and you get "If Tebow plays badly, he'll be bad, and he plays well, he'll be good". We all know that already. We still really don't know what we have with Tebow. Obviously, he can play well, and he can also play exceptionally poorly. I think rather than comparing him to Elway, which is a hopelessly lofty comparison, we should ask on which side of Jake Plummer he ends up.

Star-divide

Jake Plummer, we all remember, was a winner.  He took a terrible Arizona team to the playoffs (just once, but it was still impressive) on the back of his play making.  He was extremely mobile, and he came to Denver and put up some incredible numbers in Shannahan's offense.  In many ways, the Shannahan offense was custom made for Plummer- designed roll outs, naked bootlegs, and lots of play action passing, at all of which he excelled.  The decision to start Cutler was no doubt premature, but let's remember one reason why it happened.  Increasingly, Plummer couldn't play from the pocket.  It was ugly towards the end watching Plummer drop back to pass.  After a while, one just got the feeling that while he was creative and dynamic on the move or when the play broke down, he wasn't really able to get it done on the bread and butter plays.  An offense like Shannahan's requires a diversity of skills.  All the misdirections work best when somebody can also make the ordinary throws.

Tebow is very unlikely to be the next Elway, but I think most of his supporters know that.  However, we keep hearing about what Elway did during his first seasons, or career.  What we should be asking is how Tebow compares to Plummer.  In some respects, the late career Plummer reflects more of our hopes, and fears, for Tebow.   Tebow is dynamic when the play breaks down.  In plays tailored to his strengths (spread formations, movement, screens, designed runs), he shows not just potential, but often real ability.  Let's assume that he continues to develop those strengths.  He'll then be very good on certain kinds of plays, and of course he can excel when a play breaks down.

However, as with Plummer, that's not enough.  That's part of why Tebow the coaching staff won't just 'let Tebow be Tebow', as fans often plead.  A QB who rolls or runs on every pass is going to wear out during a game.  Making time with one's feet in the pocket and getting the ball out quickly are crucial to staying upright.  One of the best ways to beat the blitz or a great 4-man rush is to get the ball out fast.  Marino had a great line, but he didn't make them block for long.  Constant QB movement outside the pocket also means constant moving around by the line.  When you need four yards on a pass play, it's nice to be able to throw the quick comeback or a slant off a three step drop.

One of the advantage of being highly mobile is that it can lead to another teams using a 'spy'.  This takes away one aggressive pass rusher, or one potential player in coverage.  A good way to exploit the other team's using a spy is to be able to throw from the pocket.  Mobility pays the highest dividends when it's combined with pocket-passing ability.  Elway had that, as did the younger Favre.  Plummer didn't, and it was really hard to see how he was going to get it done in all the circumstances that are required for consistent winning at the very highest level.

Back to Tebow.  I'm optimistic about Tebow.  His best plays make me think that he's got the basic tools already, but that he's just not consistent with them yet.  The intangibles, and the athleticism, matter.  So, it seems to me that Tebow really can win, and be good.  But, the real measure isn't whether he stunk it up for three quarters in his first start of the year, or whether the coaching staff can better exploit his strengths (although that will help, no doubt).  Tebow won't have a long career just being Tebow, either due to injury, or due to Plummer-like inability to be a complete player at QB.  If, however, Tebow can learn to play loose and quick in the pocket, and he certainly shows flashes of that, then Tebow can be the player that Plummer wasn't.  If he doesn't, a novelty offense won't work for long in the NFL.  My money is on his succeeding.  Let's not be in too big a hurry to have the coaching staff let Tebow play like Tebow.  Let's see how he does at playing like developing QB who will, in the future, be a complete QB.

This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR

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@b52..nice artricle

many comparisions are right on. Jake Plummer was replaced by a high draft choice then quit to go to quite Idaho to think. HUM
Some say that Tebow will be replaced by a high draft pick and that he can then become the evangelist that he was destined to become. HUM

"It's amazing the crowd Tim draws. It’s like he can’t do no wrong. But I’ll tell you what – if you don’t win in this league, it won’t last that long."
Leader in Stanford QB Andrew Luck sweepsteaks, until we are not.
Bronco fan since 1966. Current Bronco fan in Vegas, living the good life.

by myerda00 on Oct 25, 2011 3:24 PM MDT reply actions  

I keep seeing your negative posts about Tebow everywhere but can't figure one thing out.

Why do you hope he fails?

Also, who’s the quote in your sig by? The double negative is eating at my soul…

None of us go out and play for stats. You just do whatever you can to help the team out. -- Eddie Royal

by Poster_Formerly_Known_As_Royal_Fan on Oct 26, 2011 3:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

That's a piece of a Champ Bailey quote.

What he cleverly left out however was the part where Champ also says he’s never seen a player like Tebow before and he’s looking forward to playing with Tim because he just wins games.

"It was my fault we were behind to begin with and I'm just proud of my teammates for continuing to fight and believe and make the comeback possible"
Tebow- When asked how he was able to come from 15 points down with 3 minutes to go.

by asinsoin on Oct 26, 2011 5:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the help

I was thinking it came from a commentator or something, which would have really bugged me. Coming from a player doesn’t bother me as much since they aren’t payed to speak lol. And thanks for putting it in context as well, because I would have never guessed it to be a Bailey quote from what he cut out.

None of us go out and play for stats. You just do whatever you can to help the team out. -- Eddie Royal

by Poster_Formerly_Known_As_Royal_Fan on Oct 26, 2011 6:01 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hey I'm glad he's here....

Now that Rocko, Hoop and BFSD are scarce , Myerdaa , Kirk and heykyleinsf are about the only real Tebow badgers left. It’s good to have opposing opinions.

"It was my fault we were behind to begin with and I'm just proud of my teammates for continuing to fight and believe and make the comeback possible"
Tebow- When asked how he was able to come from 15 points down with 3 minutes to go.

by asinsoin on Oct 26, 2011 6:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

Lol...badgers = bashers. How the hell auto text comes up with some of these words is a real mystery

"It was my fault we were behind to begin with and I'm just proud of my teammates for continuing to fight and believe and make the comeback possible"
Tebow- When asked how he was able to come from 15 points down with 3 minutes to go.

by asinsoin on Oct 26, 2011 6:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'll agree that a variety of opinions is a good thing.

But I still don’t like it when someone turns against one of our players before they’ve had sufficient time to prove or disprove their ability.

None of us go out and play for stats. You just do whatever you can to help the team out. -- Eddie Royal

by Poster_Formerly_Known_As_Royal_Fan on Oct 26, 2011 8:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don't know about Tebow comparing to anybody but himself...

We have heard form the end of the game how terrible the Miami defense is and how we should have taken control of the game way before the last few minutes. I agree, but the Miami Dolphins defense isn’t all that bad considering their offense doesn’t help them out with points. There all professional NFL players and can win on any given Sunday. Tim Tebow struggled for the first 55 minutes of the game for whatever reason we don’t know…So did Joe Flacco with 137 yds passing and I haven’t heard any pundit saying that he should be benched or Gabbert for that matter who only had 93 yds passing…This weekend was one of those weeks when defenses seemed to rule out even good offenses. Next week will be a different story, wait and see.

by bfree2bronc on Oct 25, 2011 4:36 PM MDT reply actions  

If you remember, Jake was playing well until Matt Lepsis went down in 2006.

To me, that is what led to Jake’s frantic play. But man was he good outside the hash.

Average Raider Fan's IQ = 89
Bill Williamson's IQ = 75
Find yours by clicking here.

by kwool79 on Oct 25, 2011 4:44 PM MDT reply actions  

That's true

Plummer certainly got more jittery as his protection degraded. I’m sure part of that was due to his terrible experiences in Arizona, where his line was truly appalling. Part of being a good pocket passer is being able to deal with a weaker line. No QB is going to look great behind a terrible OL, so I’m not saying that anyone would have torn it up in that situation. However, since injuries happen, there has to be some margin for error. The QB has to be good enough in the pocket to tolerate some loss in the quality of protection.

by Broncos52 on Oct 26, 2011 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions  

I completely agree.

Jake’s happy feet were exasperating to watch sometimes.

Average Raider Fan's IQ = 89
Bill Williamson's IQ = 75
Find yours by clicking here.

by kwool79 on Oct 28, 2011 9:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

maybe it Tebow doesn't make it, he can retire and move to Idaho so I can school him in some handball

"Vegetarians are cool. All I eat are vegetarians - except for the occasional mountain lion steak "

Ted Nugent

by Idaho Nate on Oct 25, 2011 5:36 PM MDT reply actions  

exactly!

Innovation in offense is great. Some new offenses work and evolve, like the west coast, some don’t work well enough, like the pure run ‘n shoot of the 90s. The thing is that neither of those offenses were based on gimmicky plays by the QB. Spread sets (with 4 or 5 WRs) are already in the NFL. It’s just that good QBs in those sets (e.g Warner and Brady) read the defenses well and get the ball out fast enough (even still, Warner took a huge beating).

I love the fact that we’ve got a mobile QB who can get yards with his feet. We just can’t base our entire offense around his running 10-20 times/game. If nothing else, look at the average length of career for RBs, and we’ll see that pretty soon Tebow will become hobbled due to injuries.

by Broncos52 on Oct 26, 2011 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions  

THANK YOU

Someone making an accurate comparison….agree the Elway/Tebow comparisons are a bit ridiculous, they’re not very similar at all really. Great article that NEEDED to be written.

by Fraser311 on Oct 26, 2011 6:44 AM MDT reply actions  

You're welcome

I obviously felt the same way! As I said, I think Tebow can become a very good QB, but Elway was not only one of, if not the, very best to ever play the position, but he played it very differently.

by Broncos52 on Oct 26, 2011 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions  

this is a good point

Particularly if Tebow wants more 4-wide sets he will simply have to get better at seeing the blitz and getting the ball out. At Florida he would frequently make the free defender miss or stiffarm him to the ground, then make a big play vs. man coverage. In the NFL, that’s a useful skill, but the bread and butter has to be to change protections to account for the blitz and release the ball quickly. That won’t work until Tebow learns to trust his reads and cues.

i keep dancing on my own.

by atomiccafe on Oct 26, 2011 7:35 AM MDT reply actions  

my feelings exactly

Obviously teams can play from multi-receiver sets most of the time. The Rams and the Pats did with great success. However, quick reactions and the ability to get the ball out before the blitz arrives (having correctly read the blitz) is key for that to work.

by Broncos52 on Oct 26, 2011 10:09 AM MDT up reply actions  

Tebow also has to realize one on one coverage in the NFL is open. If the defense is in pure man or cover one with man underneath, you really have to get the ball out and trust the receiver to make the play. If his ball placement isn’t good enough, that’s a different story though.

i keep dancing on my own.

by atomiccafe on Oct 26, 2011 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

Rec!

Great article. Pocket passing is essential in the NFL. Its great to have all the other stuff that Tebow has (toughness, leadership, mobility) but if you cant stand tall in the pocket and spin it, then your time in the league will be short.

Tebow shows flashes of being able to do it. If those flashes become streaks and begin to look like consistent stretches then he will be ok. I think Tim’s biggest issue is that his feet want to run first. When that happens, his base is out of position to make the throw and that is when you see the inaccuracy. I believe his mind is thinking pass first, now his feet need to get the message.

by AttwaterForHOF on Oct 26, 2011 9:56 AM MDT reply actions  

Thanks, and Attwater definitely ought to be in the HOF!

I actually felt bad for receivers who had balls thrown to them across the middle when he was on the field. I’m sure they felt worse.

There is no reason why a mobile QB can’t be successful. Although he’s not on anyone’s top ten list, a good example is the later career Randal Cunningham. He was able to tear it up with those fabulous Vikings offenses, having learned to throw beautiful deep balls from the pocket. Even in his later 30s he could still move around well. Steve McNair wasn’t the best pocket QB in the world, and he took a beating, but he learned to pass pretty well from the pocket and sure racked up some great years.

I’m hoping for wins, of course, but I agree with you 100% that the most encouraging thing to see will be longer and longer streaks of good, consistent throws tied to improving footwork. One thing I noticed was that on the roll outs, Tebow actually manged to get through his throwing motion pretty quickly. He’s not going to be Dan Marino or Aaron Rodgers on that front, but I think he’ll be okay if he can get his feet and arm working in concert.

by Broncos52 on Oct 26, 2011 10:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

The thing I notice on Tebow’s roll outs is how big his strides are. If you watch Rogers closely, until he decides to cross the line of scrimmage, he keeps his strides as short as possible. This allows him to keep his center of gravity over his feet so when he sees the throwing window open up, his feet dont have to move very far for him to have a solid foundation for the throw. When Tebow is scrambling in the pocket, his feet are striding way too far, so when he sees the throwing window open up there is no way he can plant his feet correctly. Sometimes he can get a good throw off like this but it is rare. That is what happened to him when he sailed the easy one to Moreno. The biggest thing I worry about with him is that those things need to be automatic. If you have to think about them then they are going to get in the way of playing football. I do agree that there is no reason why a mobile QB can’t be successful. They just cant short change throwing mechanics because they can tuck it and go though.

by AttwaterForHOF on Oct 26, 2011 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions  

You're on the money Atwater!

It has to become automatic. And I dont care how good your mechanics are, until you’ve executed the same play with the same players enough times that you know where the ball needs to be and when it needs to get there you can’t be automatic. A QB has to process so much information in such a short time it’s unbelievable. Of course good mechanics and lots of reps is huge but let’s face it, lots of QB’s have good mechanics and practice their a$$ off. You’ve also got to have natural ability and football instincts and fortunately for Tim and the Broncos he already has both.

"It was my fault we were behind to begin with and I'm just proud of my teammates for continuing to fight and believe and make the comeback possible"
Tebow- When asked how he was able to come from 15 points down with 3 minutes to go.

by asinsoin on Oct 26, 2011 5:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

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