Questions People Should Be Asking About Tim Tebow
by Tim Lynch on Oct 28, 2011 2:00 PM MDT
in Strictly My Opinion
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Two actually.
Opinions are everywhere about Tim Tebow. Opinions. Everyone (myself included) has been telling others why they think Tim Tebow can or cannot be an NFL quarterback. The thing about opinions is that everyone has their own perspective, their own agenda, or their own narrow set of data to assemble to back up their own opinion/perspective.
That's fine by me. As a blogger, I love opinions. Mile High Report is built on opinions. I can think of only two staffers past or present that did not start off in the FanPost section, toiling away out of pure love for the Denver Broncos. Our backgrounds may vary as much as our opinions, but in the end we come to this great community of Bronco fans to share our opinions and discuss our team.
Opinions matter for sure, but so do questions.
The answers I seek to these questions will be based on your opinions obviously - how else can we figure things out that have no definitive answer this early in Tebow's career? Okay, enough rambling around. Let's get to the questions:
- Can what Tebow HAS right now be taught?
- Can what Tebow LACKS right now be taught?
For me, the answer to the first question is a resounding NO. Very few quarterbacks can sense pressure in the pocket, create plays with his legs and grab momentum by the throat when the game is on the line. This is why I love John Elway for 16 years. He had what could not be taught.
However, Elway also had a handle on the second question. He was a complete player. Tebow, in my opinion, is currently an incomplete player. The good news is that what Tebow lacks right now can be taught with good coaching, practice reps and game experience. He is by no means a savior and will not become a complete player for many, many years. I would guess closer to four or five, maybe less if he is able to keep starting.
If he can win enough games now, he can earn himself a long term commitment from John Elway and that is what he needs more than anything else. It is what we need more than anything else. Why? Because we finally have a quarterback that has what Elway had that can't be taught. Broncos fans need that magic. We've missed it dearly. The goal now should be to teach Tebow what he needs to learn in order to become a great quarterback.
I think we have in Tebow what can't be taught and we just have to hope the Broncos brass will find a way to teach Tebow what can be taught. I'm already a believer, but the only opinions that really matter are the one's running the show in Dove Valley.
If you answered "No, Yes" in the poll below, then your most important task - and its a doozy - is patience. I want Tebow to be great very badly, but I fear I'm going to have to suck it up and suffer a bit for him to get all the reps and experience he needs to figure it out. Until then, I'll try to enjoy the wild ride as much as possible!
GO BRONCOS!
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D'oh! I voted for the wrong one!
I even think a full offseason and training camp with Tebow working on his timing, footwork would solve about 80% of his problems. If we don’t have a QB controversy next season and Tebow has an opportunity to train without distraction then he’ll set this league on fire next year…
Besides, if Tebow does well enough where the fans are excited (And spending money) and happy and the Broncos are trending up, I don’t think Pat Bowlen is going to want a QB controversy when Tim Tebow is a clear money maker
MOZGOD Member #35
lol
me too
twitter @hydrowardaddy
Release the Tebow.
by hydrowardaddy7 on Oct 28, 2011 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Its obviously “no,yes” … errr “yes,no”?
Screw it…
One fish, two fish, red fish, DOOM fish.
by Trapped in O.C. on Oct 28, 2011 9:35 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Me too
I should have voted like the majority but for some reason by not having the questions right there on the top of the poll I answered Yes YES as in I agree with the logic both times, not the exact wording of the questions.
I also strongly feel Tebow has the stuff that cannot be coached and reps coaching and experience will make a huge difference over time if he gets a chance and stays relatively healthy to normal nfl qb standards,
That is the question
Will EFX give Teebs enough time to develop or not? My gut says they won’t and we’ll be picking our new signal caller next year.
I sure as hell hope not though! Let’s hope he continues his audition with a gutsy win over the Lions on Sunday.
"Vegetarians are cool. All I eat are vegetarians - except for the occasional mountain lion steak "
Ted Nugent
Exactly!
Yeah, that’s my one fear and the ONE negative thing I feared with McDaniels getting the boot. If McDaniels got a 3 year trial instead, I think we’d be looking at a different story.
I wouldn’t worry about Tebow turning into at least a good, consistent QB if he had the normal 2-3 years to develop as a 1st round pick. However, with the current FO not having drafted him, etc. I’m afraid he has only this year to really make his case. Sure he’s under contract and most likely, even if they draft another QB this coming draft, he’ll be on the Broncos. But without the staff FOCUSING on developing Tebow (don’t know if they are or will) I think he’s more likely to be replaced unless he manages a miracle in developing a ton throughout this year and showing almost double the potential a young player would usually need to demonstrate. This only bothers me because I like the kid and his style and want to see him succeed. I just hope he gets the time he truly needs to show that he’ll either be a franchise guy or a bust. I’m not sure that with this staff, the next 10 games are sufficient. We’ll see though!
agree on this
Are they focused on developing Tebow? If the coach can’t even commit that he’s the Bronco’s stater he certainly does not seem intent on having much focus on future investments in teebs.
Fox taking this week to week approach helps no one.
Scarey at best,
Earth to Fox: Let Tebow play his own game.
Please trade him to Miami Please
our owner has made it clear that he is welcomed here in Miami! He spent most of the game chatting with Urban Meyer so who knows!!!
Screw mechanics, Tebow needs to think about opposing defenses not what angle is arm is at the release or what ever fox and elway see do deem him sorry smh
LETS GO HEAT!!!!!!!
Joel Anthony is the man
Henne please don't be good be Great
Double negative
Does TT have some special charatceristics that “can’t be taught”. Absolutely, and those give him a chance to succeed.
Does TT have some major flaws and are they fixable? Yes he has flaws, but at this point, I doubt he substantially changes… maybe marginal improvements in the offseason, and if he wasn’t reinforcing bad habitats in game situations and sitting on the bench concetrating on fixing things in practice, maybe he could significantly change up his akward mechanics, etc. But as the starter, he has other things to concentrate on (prepping for the DEF, etc.)… He is what he is.
So that leaves me with this question: Does the good things he has (#1) outweigh his flaws (#2)?… who knows. We have 10 more games to evaluate before we need to make a decision.
Do you get to be in on the decision...
and can I influence it at all? I don’t understand the “we” thing. Are you part of the team or organization? If not I think it is them that make the decision. Much as “we” would like to. Its Friday and I sometimes like to be a bit of a devils advocate. Hee, Hee.
"We" absolutely includes me
My evaluation doesn’t matter in what actually happens (that is EFX’s call)…. but you all here at MHR will definitely hear what I’m thinking and whether I agree or not! ;-)
hahahahahaha!
I’m sorry man, but I still read your name as cjfarts
I have to do a double take every single time I glance at it lol
Q: Where do you go in Miami in case of hurricane?
A: To Dolphin Stadium - they never get a touchdown there.
Devil's advocacy is douchebaggery if you ask me
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Oct 28, 2011 3:18 PM MDT up reply actions
cj...you have it exactly backwards. TT is going to get better sitting on the bench. This is not college where you have
100 guys at the practice and the back-up guys get as many reps as the starters. If you are not the starter, you are not getting many reps, if any during the week. For him to get better he has to be in the game as the starter getting the valuable playing time that will build up his real speed game experience (which you can’t duplicate in practice). It is only by getting the reps, working over and over on the mechanics during the week and getting the chance to put them into practice on Sundays that will allow TT to progress.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."
by rubincarterrocks on Oct 28, 2011 4:55 PM MDT up reply actions
100% agree. Practice with out game time really sucks as a Qb....you dont get hit in practice so it really is not "game like" for QB's.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
Can he hand the ball off to Trent Richardson?
Stop with the 'Tebowing' people. I tried to pray for my lunch and go the busy signal.
and yet Blaine Gabbert
cannot hand the ball off to Maurice Jones-Drew :)
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Oct 28, 2011 3:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Pro ready QB no doubt. Newton and Tebow need some serious bench time.
Stop with the 'Tebowing' people. I tried to pray for my lunch and go the busy signal.
Niether need bench time...worst thing for them. They need live bullets...
These 2 are new breeds of QB’s. They have enough athletic skills and characteristics that an offense can be built around them as they gain the other skills they need. It is now squarely on the coaches to make sure they progress and gain new skills. Sitting them does nothing.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
by boydy2669 on Oct 28, 2011 8:14 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
The jury's almost in on Newton...he's actually exceeding the expectations of some experts and naysayers.
Regarding Tebow, the Broncos need to see what they have in him before they can decide what to do with their first pick of next year’s draft.
by 9798 on Oct 28, 2011 11:21 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
We need better players and depth on defense
more than we need a glamour qb. I just hope that Tebow is good enough to allow us to spend draft picks on other players rather than another qb. I’m done hoping he becomes an elite qb.
by Orangeboom on Oct 28, 2011 2:21 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
You could have...
stopped right after the word players.
Your last paragraph is a bit confusing. You say Yes squared as if it is the optimal answer when in reality No, Yes is the optimal answer.
People may vote incorrectly in the poll due to that.
Still, I voted No, Yes, What he has can’t be taught which is why it is so valuable and why so many QBs bust (players at every position for that matter).
Yes what he lacks can be taught and I will be patient as long as he shows the ability to learn it and improvement over time. He showed in college that he can be accurate. He really just needs to show he can be more accurate and that he can learn the snap from center drop back and be quick an accurate with that.
Accuracy, timing and recognition are going to be his biggest hurdles.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
thats what I did
I said yes squared as I agreed with both statements that Tebow has stuff that cannot be taught and can be taught mechanics and reads and other techniques with his smarts athleticism and skill sets and motivation and discipline.
Duh...
I voted for the wrong one also. I meant 1-no, 2-yes. This is a no-brainer but the question or poll was a bit confusing (at least for my simple mind). I get it now.
He has "the magic" and he can be taught the rest.
I think the Broncos front office has nothing to lose and everything to gain by letting this kid go out every Sunday and inspire his team to be the best that they can be plus a little they didn’t even know existed. He will get better at the passing game as he matures and understands the offensive schemes he is learning.
Come on, Alex, please be good this year..
Follow @JesseReed78
by Jesse Reed on Oct 28, 2011 2:24 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
http://www.milehighreport.com/2011/5/8/2160849/god-given-gifts-and-the-worst-case-scenario
You know how I feel about this. I still feel the same way, I just was wrong about Orton’s trade value (he had less than I hoped). And AZ may have been better off trading a lot less for Kyle then giving away picks/players for Kolb.
Go Broncos
Go Tebow
I was there!
in watching
the Cards-Steelers game, Kolb at times makes Orton look like a good option, they’re both statistical savants you cannot trust
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Oct 28, 2011 3:20 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm sure if the Cards could go back
They would in an instant. They could get the same, if not better results, for cheaper. That’s why I hate the word “potential.” Kolb had all the skills to succeed in the NFL, he’s just not.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Yet Tebow has none (according to many) but finds ways to win. Thats why I rank intangibles a lot higher than tangibles, and why I was always for Tebow over any of our QB's, and there in lies the source of most debate!
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
Can you turn anything into a Tebow discussion?
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Oct 28, 2011 10:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Its is a Tebow discussion...what do you think it is about...quantum physics?
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
If this is about quantum physics
I’m leaving
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Oct 29, 2011 3:46 PM MDT up reply actions
Could not agree more!
Tebow has been a project since day one, and has been set back tremendously by the lockout. His throwing motion and foot work will never be perfect, but it can improve dramatically (see Steve Young). I don’t know if it will be 2 years or 5, but if he gets the opportunity I believe he will develop into a good passer and a top-flight franchise quarterback.
I also think we should not expect too much improvement on mechanics during this season. If you try to tweak to many things at the same time you end up looking a lot like Tebow Q1 – Q3 of the last game. This time should be spent on reading defenses better, getting more in synch with his receivers, and winning as many games as possible. The off season should put the focus on his footwork first (I think a lot of the problems are more related to footwork than to a funky throwing motion).
Anyway, great post.
And GO BRONCOS!
by Bronco Fan Doug on Oct 28, 2011 2:36 PM MDT reply actions
EXACTLY........footwwork and reads and lots of play reps.
but don’t mess with his throwing motion. I think he’s concentrating on ‘doing it pretty’ rather than what (and how) he has always used successfullly.
Earth to Fox: Let Tebow play his own game.
Another good post, Mr Lynch!!
I had no hesitation in voting 1 = No and 2 = Yes. I think you are right on about the need to be patient.
I watched John Elway for several years wondering if he would ever fully develop his potential. He did – but it took the better part of 7 years in my opinion.
GO BRONCOS!!!!
+1!
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."
by rubincarterrocks on Oct 28, 2011 4:57 PM MDT up reply actions
therein is the elephant in the room.
Will Elway actually remember his early years? He surely, surely see many things in Tim that he recognizes from his earliest years. Will the Johns give Tebow that same several years to come into his own? Big Big IF right there.
Earth to Fox: Let Tebow play his own game.
The real question
Great post, but I think there is one more question which needs to be answered: Does Tebow need to be traded to a team that will build an offensive scheme around his skill set for him to be a star qb? I say traded because Tebow is being set up here in Denver. There is NO way that Elway will keep Tebow here, unless he wins most of the rest of the games—and that is iffy just because he needs time to develop. I think the answer is NO (you can’t teach what he has in intangibles), and I think the answer is (YES) he can develop, but Tebow won’t excel unless the offense is designed to his strengths. Steve Young was 2-19 when Tampa Bay traded him. His sudden blossoming into a SB qb was not the result of him somehow “developing his passing skills” somewhere on a flight from Tampa Bay to SF—it was the offense he ran.
Do you think its possible that...
IF Tebow shows enough this year that the FO decide to roll with him next year that they might? IMO I didn’t really believe they planed on playing him this year, and with the nature of how this season is going, I think that’s why they aren’t building around him..possibly with a regular off season they might?
"Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work as hard"-Tim Tebow
by Tuscani on Oct 28, 2011 3:07 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
You know, the offense Elway was thrown into wasn't built for Elway....
They didn’t start putting quicker linemen who could run around and keep the plays and blocks alive long enough for Elway to make a play until many years AFTER Elway came into the league. He had to prove his long term viability before that kind of investment was made. This is Tebow’s chance…
will Tebow be givien that same amount of time to grow and be assessed? (more than 10 games)
I just don’t see Fox and Tebow as an ideal combination.
Earth to Fox: Let Tebow play his own game.
He's had two years to show progress
in his mechanics and he hasn’t shown much so far. I’m sure it’s not for lack of trying, Tebow works harder than anyone else. So why haven’t we seen any improvement? That’s the biggest concern I see.
I think we have seen a ton of improvements!
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
Fox has
Been on record about Tebow’s improvements over last year as well as this season and I believe him. We haven’t seen any improvement because we only get to see the games, and that sample size for this season is way too small to pass judgement. We’re not privvy to what goes on at Dove Valley during the week, Fox is. I have a feeling that they are more concerned with his reads at this point than they are with his throwing motion. Reads and footwork are what he needs to concentrate on right now and these things can be learned, but it takes time. Tebow has the will and work ethic to get to where he needs to be and that helps his cause with the Broncos imensely.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
I voted NO/YES
and I think he will be taught and he will learn faster then anyone will aniticipate. Because he’s just that kind of student of the game. But he’s also very highly motivated by those of whom oppose him! Lastly, I think John Elway wants Tim to be a lifer with the Broncos. I saw video of John in his gym clothes working one on one with Tim! Working on, you guessed it, mechanics and drop backs!!
Great post — thanks for the questions and poll!
Tim4T...I agree fully because the one advantage that TT has is he "IS" a
great athlete. Great athletes love physical challenges. Great athletes are capable of making the necessary changes to get better, specifically because they are so gifted physically. QBs in the past who were known as great athletes (wish bone types and spread qbs) that could not make the transition did not have the arm of TT. TT has shown he can make all of the passes strength-wise, and has shown me enough accuracy, particularly in the clutch, that I have no doubt he has the physical/mental ability to be a good to very good passer. It would be a shame at this point, with 2 years invested into his development, to allow some other team to reap the benefits… in for a penny, in for a pound. C’mon EFX, show some nads and hang with TT, I think he’ll reward your patience.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."
by rubincarterrocks on Oct 28, 2011 5:05 PM MDT up reply actions
agree he has the arm strength
accuracy and technique can be taught and get better with experience and reps
How many snaps did he get with our 1st team offense and OL and the 1st striing center before the San Diego game – ever?
Orton ate up all the snaps with Zane Beadles for two years.
He might be great, he might not be.
But let’s not assume either way. We’ll know more as the season goes on. Only thing that’s for sure is, he has to get better. Much better.
And if he doesn’t, then we need to draft a guy.
Don’t love/hate the player, love/hate the production.
Tim Tebow built my hot rod. And it runs 46 percent of the time.
by TheMastermind on Oct 28, 2011 3:00 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree.
How anyone can make conclusions this early is beyond me. The fact is we don’t know what we’ve got in Tebow.
He might be great, he might be nothing. Anyone who claims to know is foolish or emotional.
Fair enough....
But I’d be willing to bet that Elway would also vote NO/YES to these questions because I think he loves Tim, the player. Therefore, he wants to invest in that potential production!
But…..it could be based on this year’s production so, mastermind, definitely makes a valid point!!
Let us see how he progresses
and win games in the process, the best of both worlds if he comes to fruition as propitiously as I hope
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Oct 28, 2011 3:43 PM MDT reply actions
Has Tebow gone backward?
I appreciate all the Tebow boosters. In fact, I have a couple of questions for you. First: how did Tebow complete nearly 70% of his passes in college, and so badly miss several open receivers in last Sunday’s game? I would think he hit those passes routinely in college. Why not now?
Second: why did Tebow hold the ball so long last weekend? I’m sure Dawkins was right in saying Tebow was too hesitant for the first three quarters. Did he lose his nerve? Lack faith in his receivers?
I think Tebow is playing without confidence until he has nothing to lose...which is late in the game and we're losing.
The lockout hurt him. He has regressed. It is obvious the coaching staff is not skilled in QB development.
It falls on Tebow to work hard to overcome….he will or he won’t.
See, I dont agree his has regressed...thats a sweeping statement that does not hold up under scrutiny...
- Stay in pocket longer.
- Safe with the ball.
- Making better reads and better calls with audibles.
- Making plays from under center (there was improvement from first to second half against the Dolphins).
Now, where has he regressed? He still proved in the last 5 minutes he runs the spread well and becomes more accurate from it…..and thats exactly from what he succeeded last year.
As much as I think McCoy is a totally shitty OC, he is giving Tebow more variety of plays (and I went and watched ALL games he started last season and the game he started this season).
So, he is learning new skills, started making plays from under center and still played well from the spread.
He made some dreadful throws, but did not make any bad decisions apart from his first throw.
Has he got to improve? Shit yeah, but the regression argument does not jive.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
by boydy2669 on Oct 28, 2011 8:29 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tim, on all fronts. I'd think it'd be tough for a young QB to out and kill yourself for a coach who's shown nothing but reluctance.
But Tebow’s nature is to do just exactly that.
Earth to Fox: Let Tebow play his own game.
He may be great under pressure but he still can get the
“new in the league, only my 4th start” jitters. Remember how John Elway would have those early game over-hyped energy problems and would settle in as the game progressed. It’s only TTs second season, he wouldn’t be human if he wasn’t a bit nervous.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."
by rubincarterrocks on Oct 28, 2011 5:09 PM MDT up reply actions
There was a great fanpost recently that showed Elways stats for his rookie season...
So far, Tebow is better statistically. lol
It is obvious
that the NFL games is far superior to the collegiate game in terms of speed, strength and transcendent skill for all participants. Don’t get me started on the jacked-up BC$…
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Oct 29, 2011 3:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Finally, someone asks the right questions
It’s not about seeing what we have in Tebow, it’s about developing the pocket presence, the passing, the timing of an athlete with unique skills. What we have is a raw rookie QB who is athletic and who works harder than everyone else on the team.
ESPN did an article about Cam Newton’s development yesterday and it was exactly what I want to see with Tebow. It’s a deliberate and planned attempt to teach him how to pass, to work on footwork, mechanics, timing, and pocket presence and live with the mistakes.
Everyone raves about Cam Newton and how good hes been – but go back and youtube Cam Newton Preseason Week 3 and look at every throw he made. He went 7-19 and was missing guys on screens, missing receivers by 10 yards, etc. It looked exactly like Tebow’s performance and it was in the preseason against base defensive looks. The difference is Carolina understands that he’s not there yet and that this season is a learning and teaching process.
The only way to evaluate Tebow is looking for continuous improvement. Is he reading thee defense correctly? Is he recognizing the blitz? Is his timing and accuracy improving? Is he going to the right place with the football even if it’s incomplete? If you’re evaluating him on completion percentage, how pretty he looks in his 5th NFL start, number of wins the rest of the season, you’re doing yourself and the team a disservice. Rookie QBs are rookie QBs and not all of them look like Matt Ryan in their first season. In fact, I’d argue that a lot of the guys who look that good have lower ceilings. Eli Manning has turned into a really good QB and he was terrible at the start of his career – he probably got more time to develop due to his last name. His ceiling is probably a better version of Donovan McNabb – who actually studies the game and keeps himself in shape and inspires teammates.
Personally, I don’t give a shit how good or bad he looks this early in the season or how badly he misses receivers. The question is does our organization have the patience, coaches, and mentors to teach him correctly and live with the mistakes – that remains to be seen.
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
by chantech on Oct 28, 2011 6:53 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Which leads to why I think McCoy is a complete and utter hack...he is out of his depth with a guy like Tebow!
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
it's true
Mike McCoy is a hack until he’s not, it’s a shame too, I liked watching him at the University of Utah in the early 90s
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Oct 29, 2011 3:58 PM MDT up reply actions
A few more comments..
“He is by no means a savior and will not become a complete player for many, many years. I would guess closer to four or five, maybe less if he is able to keep starting.”
If that’s how long you think it’s going to take him you’d be way better off cutting him and drafting a QB that’ll take 1 or 2 years to develop. I think he’ll need this year + an offseason where he’s working on very deliberate things.
“If he can win enough games now, he can earn himself a long term commitment from John Elway and that is what he needs more than anything else.”
How many games he wins shouldn’t matter – if he showed improvement in every game to the point where he looked like Mark Sanchez, the front office needs to commit to him.
“The good news is that what Tebow lacks right now can be taught with good coaching”
I can’t emphasize how important the good coaching part is. Tebow has the baseline athleticism and skill to do what they need – he needs the right coaching to develop the skills. Do you have faith in the coaching staff? You’re looking at a head coach who made 3 QB changes last year through week 6…
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
That's how long Steve Young needed.
I’m hoping he can develop quicker, but my only basis really for comparison is Steve Young.
Steve Young wasn't given an opportunity...
He had one full season where it feels like the front office and coaching staff had the same commitment to development to him that the Broncos do to Tebow.
He then went to SF and didn’t really get too much game experience – however was coached in the right way. Did he need all 3 of those years? Who knows….but there was a guy named Montana in front of him.
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
That is what I fear will happen to Tebow.
He’ll end up on the Colts or something and end up being a HOF QB….and we’ll be the Tampa Bay Buccaneers of the 90’s. Irrelevant.
No question the intangables you described cannot be taught. There is a caveat for the 2nd, however.
If there is one “greatest” frustration for this MHR member it is the sense that the idea of player development is missing or lacking with a significant percentage of the membership. Way too many seem zoned in on instant gratification and a “throw the bums out” if they don’t produce immediately, Ayers being a good case in point. What I’m afraid of with Tebow is how the current staff views player development for the position of QB. I sincerely hope Fox does not try to force feed the pocket/under center mind set at the expense of Tebow’s current strengths.
Elway’s statistics the first year were a bit of a surprise as my memory doesn’t want to remember how rough he was in fitting the typical NFL QB profile then. The fact is Elway broke the mold and until they, being his early coaches and Reeves in particular, game planned to fit his present skills set did not taste real success. By the end of his career Elway was far more of the typical NFL QB model and yet he still managed a “helicopter” ride or two keep the defenses honest. IF…IF…we develop Tebow from this perspective we could have something special. If we don’t…well my bet is someone else will and he will come back to haunt us in the form of another team’s QB..god forbid the Raiders.
"Peace, a journey without distance to a place we have never left."
Yeah, I am right there with you....but....
the reality is, I don’t get the sense this front office is interested in being patient with Tebow. He has to show something now or they will move on and draft their own guy. I really hope Tebow can do it.
Tim I disagree....
John Elway is a very smart man. He knows we have something very special in Tebow. Thier is only one College QB that could derail the Tebow Express. Lets face it though that we will not have a chance to draft him! As for the other two I have to say HELL NO!!!! I’m a Trojan through and through and I’ll tell you what, the thought of Barkley as the face of this organization makes me want to puke!!!
What I think happens is that Elway lets coach Fox keep his job next year do to the Defences progress. However I believe he will insist that Fox revamps his Offensive staff with better coaches who will be not only able to develope Tebow, but also a better system to fit his skills.
P.S.
Jones is a system QB with only half the skillset of Bradford IMO ;)
by FootballguruCoreyS. on Oct 29, 2011 12:26 AM MDT up reply actions
Thanks Boiler Me Too
I feel their are just too many teams who are trying to get that one QB. So if you don’t have the #1 overall pick your screwed. The bidding war for said QB if the team was willing to trade that pick would would be too steep had set back the Broncos 5-7 years IMO. I think we all know we have too many holes on this team for that.
The smarter thing to do is improve the offensive coaching staff. Develope a great Football player who we all seem to agree has ‘IT’. Do that and draft well, and well will be a contender in 2-3 years!!
by FootballguruCoreyS. on Oct 29, 2011 12:45 AM MDT up reply actions
Corey, Agreed. USC fan.....Barkley shows upside but SUPER inconsistent. We have that already in Tebow, right?
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
Well said BCUbuffs
It seems to me that many Bronco fans feel they are entitled to have a top five NFL quarterback and are not willing to be very patient. I worry that the same fans who booed Kyle Orton will turn on Tim Tebow way before he learns to read defenses and throw consistant, accurate passes. From what I have seen so far this year and last year, Tim Tebow has a lot to learn. I love his passion for the game though and am hoping he can survive the “learning process”.
Agreed
Hopefully the front office understands that they’re teaching a guy how to become a good pocket passer, not evaluating him on his pocket passing skills. I know that John Fox doesn’t inherently understand this by how he handled Moore and Clausen last year.
If you’re leaving him back there without sufficient reps and coaching he’s going to look like Blaine Gabbert.
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
Little different...Fox knwe he only had 1 year at CAR....he has plenty of time here, so i think Tebow starting now is ahead of the plan.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
Leaf and Russell are listed #1 & #2 (i.e., "at the very top") of at least three "Top 10 NFL Draft Busts," but, regardless, they didn't last more than three years in the league.
ref.:
http://football.about.com/od/nfldrafthistory/tp/topdraftbusts.htm
http://top5lists.net/the-top-5-nfl-draft-busts/
http://nfldraftrage.com/top-5-biggest-1st-round-bust/
And although Alex Smith has been in the league longer than Leaf and Russell, he’s also had to absorb the offensive schemes of seven different offensive coordinators in as many seasons, not to mention having four different head coaches in seven years, as well…
ref.:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1191408/index.htm
http://www.ask.com/wiki/List_of_San_Francisco_49ers_head_coaches
…which explains why he was obviously given at least some benefit of doubt.
mccoy and gase
are we even trying to develop tebow with these guys. i don’t know if the kid has a chance with these 2, i really don’t. put my vote in for a new oc, qb coach, and stick with tim for 2012. give him another rb and some blind-side help, see what that does.
if he doesn’t show major improvement after next season, cut bait. i think that is plenty of time to see if he can improve enough. but we’re drafting a qb, i can smell it. enjoy the season, i’m not sure tebow’s on the team next year
taste my blintzkrieg!
the 3-man rush is an admission of lunacy, cowardice, and defeat-please stop.
by davecheffy on Oct 28, 2011 11:11 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
The most important thing at this point is continuity...
McCoy and Gase might not be the guys but you’re advocating a knee-jerk reaction, which is exactly the opposite of how this team needs to think in order to succeed. On one hand, how can you advocate changing coordinators while maintaining patience with Tebow? If you’re that fickle with your coordinators there’s no way you’re going to have the patience to see through Tebow’s development process.
Can we send him to IMG Academies (where Newton and Ponder went) or something or hire him a private QB coach? You spend 6 million on a guy, what’s another 250k on development??
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
Thank you Tim for making the one word point : PATIENCE, Bronco fans, Patience.
Lord knows he (we) won’t get it from the MSM so Bronco fans need to unite on this one issue,
Earth to Fox: Let Tebow play his own game.
He's a winner
But for most the Dolphins game I thought we’d never see him quarterback again
Brady Quinn
Honestly, isn’t Brady Quinn more of a pocket passer? Wouldn’t we be better off seeing what he or the other young quarterback have and really then assess what we have on the roster? Do you guys really think tebow looked that good that you wouldn’t explore your options?
No way Quinn, Weber or Orton have any more upside.....
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
There's tape on Quinn as a starting quarterback in this league.
And Weber wasn’t drafted by any of the 32 teams (including Denver), so there’s a certain value there. Tebow has already brought the team back for two victories out of 4 1/2 starts, and he brought them back in two other games (both against the Chargers), but time simply ran out in those two games. So, we can already see (or pretty much know) what each of them can do. More importantly, we can see what Tebow can do for the Broncos when the game really matters, in crunch-time. Besides, switching in and out quarterbacks during a season generally doesn’t help overall team chemistry, and we’ve all had a chance to see how players, on both sides of the ball, congratulated Tebow on the sidelines after he scored.
Looking at this video of the Texans game lasy year Tebow was making some throws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsgXyur1yII
The issue is the relatively easy for an NFL QB throws he sometimes misses
Like the wide open Decke for a possible TB than had everyone cringe.
of course there was this last year
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/08/elway-clarifies-his-comments-on-tebow/
Said Elway to King: "I don’t think Tim Tebow is a good NFL quarterback at this time."
Elway has now taken to Twitter in an effort to cram the toothpaste back into the tube.
"To clarify my thoughts on Tim Tebow," Elway said. "I think he’s a very good football player, and if anyone can turn themselves into a great QB, Tim can. Myself and our entire organization think very highly of him. We are pleased with his first year as a Bronco. Any speculation that the Denver Broncos are considering moving Tim is completely false."
Yeah, blacklash will do that.
I think his first comment is likely more truthful than the PR follow up.
Wouldn't bet money on it
The older I get the more I see people trying to deny an obvious truth. Now I watch what people do and not what they say because there is too much misdirection
Then again we can get this - 3 offensive penalties on one play
http://deadspin.com/5830372/tim-tebow-engineered-the-strangest-play-of-the-young-nfl-season
Broken play scramble ,went beyond line of scrimmage spun around went behind LOS threw pass , illegal pass illegal block and ineligible player downfield.
Tim Tebow Engineered The Strangest Play Of The Young NFL Season
Tebow’s under a microscope, no doubt, so his plays are going to be scrutinized more than just about anyone else’s. But last night’s double-reverse-scramble-pass was so balletically chaotic, we’d have to break this down no matter who ran it. It just so happened to be Tebow who managed to be brilliant and boneheaded on the same snap, getting two Cowboys injured and drawing three penalties on the Broncos.
On a long third-and-goal toward the end of the half, no one could get open, despite three receivers plus the TE and RB in the flat — get used to that. Tebow takes off through the hole created by his left tackle, going about three yards past the line of scrimmage. Forced toward the sideline, he lays a pair of nice stiff-arms on Josh Thomas, then doubles back across the field to where the pocket used to be. Despite the fact that his lineman have already gone downfield, he dumps it off to Britt Davis for a useless gain of six.
When all was said and done, two Cowboys were lying injured, and Denver was flagged for an illegal forward pass, an ineligible receiver downfield, and an illegal block in the back.
,,,,
http://deadspin.com/5830372/tim-tebow-engineered-the-strangest-play-of-the-young-nfl-season
I do not think Tim Tebow is going to be boring
I also like john Fox fluffing Tebow’s hair when he got to the sideline saying try not to get killed out there but I like your try….
Based on the poll results
and ensuing “whoops! that’s not what I meant” replies, I’d say this is more of a reading comprehension post than it is a Tebow post…and we’re…not doing particularly well.
" I Find Your Lack of Faith Disturbing," Darth Vader.
Right answer
When your wife asks “does my ass look big in these pants?” You have to go for what you think the right answer is.
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