My plan to stop Rob Gronkowski!
by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 9:38 AM MST
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There is an article here in MHR called Any ideas on how to stop Gronk? that made me think about some ideas to answer it. Thank you boanst (the author), since thinking about football strategies always help me to relieve the stress of my work. Ok, I think I now have a plan I'd like to share with you dudes. My plan includes not only stopping Gronkowski but a defense gameplan to try to stop Tom Brady.
First of all the New England Patriots don't have a great rushing game. Don't get me wrong, I like the duo Green-Ellis, + Woodhead, but the fact is that their scheme is not built for them to pound the rock. They have an elite QB (I'm sure he will be a HOFer) and they just need to explore it with their WRs and catching TEs. That simple.
That said now it's time to verify if I got nuts, or if my defense gameplan could work:
Champ Bailey vs Wes Welker. Yes, I'll start putting my best CB facing their best WR 1-on-1. I really think Bailey can shut him down without help. Our decade Pro Bowler has done it before against better WRs, so I'm confident matching up this single coverage here.
Andre Goodman vs Deion Branch. In this case, no way in a single coverage. Goodman had a concussion last game, but if he misses this game, just place his replacement here - likely Wilhite. Of course this matchup could be explored the whole day without further help. So my plan is to put our best ball skilled safety Rahim Moore (I'm ok if it's Quinton Carter) patrolling this side to help Goodman.
DJ Williams vs Aaron Hernandez. Yes, I think they will use a 2 TE / 2 WR several times and in this case I'd put DJ facing Aaron. He isn't Briggs, ok, but with Moore patrolling this side of the filed to give a help, it can be done.
Now the key matchup: Chris Harris vs Rob Gronkowski. Our young UDFA to stop Gronk? Are you serious, Fabio? Yes, he is good in coverage and our best tackling CB, but Bailey. And he can also have a little help by Dawkins (or the replacing SS). The problem is: to use this nickel formation several downs, we would have to bench Joe Mays. But I'm ok with that, since we can put him back on the field when they use a 2 HB formation.
Another possibility to build this working nickel, would be having a very hybrid defense mixing my scheme with another one that would be stepping up Wesley Woodyard or Mario Haggan as our SLB and sliding Von Miller to LDE in a false 3-4 package. I'm sure coach Dennis Allen is a wise man, capable of making creative blitz packages with this formation.
Our pass rushing will have a very important role by hurring Tom Brady. If Gisele's husband has a week to throw... oh, we are in trouble. That's why our defensive line also needs to step up and make an outstanding pressure job by collapsing the pocket and eventually hitting the QB. Sorry about the poor drawing techniques, but I did my best trying to illustrate it here with not much available time:
What do you fellas think about it? Would it work?
GO BRONCOS!
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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And if it still doesn't work,
Let’s just kidnap him untill the end of the game…
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Don't we have a 2 spots cage? lol
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 6:13 PM MST up reply actions
kidnapping Gronk would make a more interesting movie given the format, stripper and porn star cameos galore :p
Drinkin the kool-aid, smokin the Orange Kush
This may be the game where Tim plays the "Iron Man" and defends against the "gronk"
"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today." James Dean
I wouldn't be surprised
Timmy menthored Chuck Norris… nuff said huh =)
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 15, 2011 3:55 PM MST up reply actions
I say kidnap him and make him an offer..
"We've clawed our way back in this thing," safety Brian Dawkins said."We're going to go out and give it everything we got."
a 5 years one wouldn't be bad...
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 15, 2011 1:16 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
There is no stopping Gronk (G-Force) and H-Bomb (Hernandez). Good luck.
And having the much slower Bailey on Welker is a disaster. If you guys don’t to Tom, it won’t be pretty. Tebow won;t be able to do any 4th qtr heroics, if there is a 2td lead early in the game. Tough to run only then. And we let Wilhite go, because he sucks. Heck, our entire secondary minus Arrington does, so it is rather alarming that we let Wilhite go.
Depth is great. Right up until you need it!!
We'll see
and while I do agree that G-force is indeed a force, you’re mistaken if you believe that Welker is much faster than Bailey. Welker is indeed quick and of course Brady makes him a better WR but in the context of speed Welker will be one of the slower WR’s that Bailey has faced (and shut down) this year.
"I wouldn't call it Tebow Time I'd call it Bronco Time"- Tim Tebow
by asinsoin on Dec 14, 2011 9:59 AM MST up reply actions 4 recs
Exactly
He did an outstanding job several times shuting down better WRs than Wes Welker, so I don’t think he would get burned a lot of plays if Brady tries him. Btw, I’ll never forget that pick-off in 2005 to teach Brady his first playoff loss.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 10:34 AM MST up reply actions
that was a tremendous play by Champ, no doubt. That play ended the streak. :(
Depth is great. Right up until you need it!!
You are correct. I mis-wrote. I think Wes is shiftier and more quick with his steps, but
not faster.
Depth is great. Right up until you need it!!
I think we're going to see Woodyard matched up on Gronkowski all game.
I love Harris, but he would really struggle to bring down Gronkowski. That dude is a true freak of nature. WW has the speed to keep up with him, and is a great tackler.
I think we’ll play our CB’s the same way we have been. Champ will play the best receiver who lines up outside, and Harris will play the slot. This will put Harris on Welker a lot, but he’s been up to the task all season. Champ may end up covering Hernandez when they split him out wide.
Oh, you were finished? Oh, well, allow me to retort!
--Jules Winnfield
It's another good option
However if we put Harris or WW there, we are in trouble. We’ll need a safety hand anyway…
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 10:35 AM MST up reply actions
This may be the game where Tim plays the "Iron Man" and defends against the "gronk"
I think it would work really well!
"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today." James Dean
Well you guys did pick up Nate Jones...
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
by Calikula on Dec 14, 2011 10:18 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Nate Jones! hahaahha great recall
And he still thinks he can say anything about Wilhite… oh lord.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 10:36 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
You have a great offense, vic85
And G-H is the best duo TEs in NFL.. but you aren’t unstoppable. Think about it, being humble is always good.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 10:33 AM MST up reply actions
Oh you are right. SB 42 taught many of us to never take a game for granted. But i just
feel as though a team that finds it difficult to score consistently, will have a tough time keeping pace with a high scoring team led by Brady. The Broncos defense will give us fits initially i feel, but Brady and co. will dissect the plays on the sideline and adjust. Heck, you guys can do the same no doubt, but i just have to put my money on Brady before i put my money on a team led by Tebow. Like him personally though. The speed of Miller is scary, but if he or his teammate, Dumervil can’t get to Brady, it is going to be a tough game. Frenny and Mathis were rendered useless just a few weeks ago, as was Wake and many others to name a few.
Depth is great. Right up until you need it!!
The Pats have some very knowledgeable fans...
If you see any of them, please invite them to comment on our blog.
Talking crap about Wilhite? 5 words :
Niko Koutouvides, Nate Mother#@(%ing Jones!
And I do agree that getting to Brady will be the key, but Von Doom are more than up to the task.
by Velveeta on Dec 14, 2011 10:53 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Wic85 your being ridiculously funny...
Champ Bailey may have lost a mili-second, but I’m sure he’ll show Mr Branch a trick or two…He does it every week. We know Tom Brady will get his yards that’s not what the Broncos defense is all about, they are about bend don’t break. Look at the passing stats of QBs we’ve faced and see how many points they actually scored. That tells the tale…
"What's better than 5 - 0?!?...[The whole locker room] 6 - 0"!!!
Head Coach John Fox in the locker room madness following a 13-10 victory over the Bears...
by bfree2bronc on Dec 14, 2011 12:26 PM MST up reply actions
I'm glad you wrote this friend:
We know Tom Brady will get his yards that’s not what the Broncos defense is all about, they are about bend don’t break. Look at the passing stats of QBs we’ve faced and see how many points they actually scored. That tells the tale…
You just summed up the Pats defense. Yards are not indicative of wins/losses. Points are.
Pats: 21.1pts given up per game…..14th in the league
Broncos: 23.2 pts given up per game……22nd in the league
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStatsTeam?div=NFL&sortType=defense&table=scoring&stat=scorPtsGm&dir=ascending&seasonState=regular
Depth is great. Right up until you need it!!
Minus here and there, and i can make our secondary look pretty darn great.
But that can’t be done, can it?
Depth is great. Right up until you need it!!
I think Welker will get his catches
but not because he is faster than Bailey. Your mistaking quickness and precision route running with speed. Welker is a quick dude who gets tremendous separation and can make guys miss. He is not Desean Jackson. Bailey has the advantage on the 9’s,8’s and 7’s. The comeback, quick slants, and especially the option routes are the concern. Nothing to do with speed.
Agreed.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 2:44 PM MST up reply actions
Doesn't look good at cornerback.
I remember when we played Peyton & the Colts and all he did was keep abusing the mismatch all game long due to injury to the cornerback position. I see that as the biggest weakness. Depends on how Allen can adjust to Patriots’ game plan.
We have a lack in the CB position right now
We can’t pretend we don’t. So we need to bring our safeties to help this talk to avoid another game like that one.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 10:38 AM MST up reply actions
Would be a good working plan also.
I think Joe Mays has nothing to do on the field this time and will be benched in favor of WW or Harris… or a mixing packages of them.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 10:37 AM MST up reply actions
And also Haggan can be used sometimes
He had a great day playing the Vikings as our Sam. What a pleasant surprise he was that game…
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 10:40 AM MST up reply actions
I don't think Haggan plays in the Nickle...
He’s too big to play in coverage. I think he was lined up as an end when he made that pick. (i could be wrong, maybe it was at SAM, but he was showing blitz then dropped into space.) I don’t think he can lock up m2m with a guy and be effective.
I also don't think he is a fast guy
But it could help a miss-reading of their offense, like that pick-6.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 11:48 AM MST up reply actions
This may be the game where Tim plays the "Iron Man" and defends against the "gronk"
Hey, It’s the only guy on out team that could really shut him down!
"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today." James Dean
Haggan has played DE as well in games...He is that multi-purpose player that seems to be around the play...
"What's better than 5 - 0?!?...[The whole locker room] 6 - 0"!!!
Head Coach John Fox in the locker room madness following a 13-10 victory over the Bears...
by bfree2bronc on Dec 14, 2011 12:53 PM MST up reply actions
That's true NYCBronx, since he got burnt in Indy against Dallas Clark a few years ago he has come a long ways...
I wonder if Allen will decide to play man coverage on the WRs and put two on Gronk and Hernandez?
"What's better than 5 - 0?!?...[The whole locker room] 6 - 0"!!!
Head Coach John Fox in the locker room madness following a 13-10 victory over the Bears...
by bfree2bronc on Dec 14, 2011 12:56 PM MST up reply actions
Why don't we use Von Miller
to cover him?
twitter @hydrowardaddy
Release the Tebow.
by hydrowardaddy7 on Dec 14, 2011 10:47 AM MST reply actions
Because Von will be busy pounding Brady into the turf.
by Velveeta on Dec 14, 2011 10:56 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
This!
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 11:26 AM MST up reply actions
That is Miller's weakest skill....
….he will improve in the future, but coverage is not currently his MO.
"Pain don't hurt" - Swayze (Road House) -- We miss you man!
He's OK
But his strength is rushing the passer and he is VERY good at it. It is ok to mix it up sometimes and drop him in coverage, but if Von is not attacking the QB 75% of the time he is on the field or more, we are wasting elite talent.
Agreed. I had thought about the same thing but this is his best playing position.
Perhaps in the future Von could be an elite coverage LB too. It would great to have him cover TEs like Gates, Gronk, Graham, etc. DJ is pretty good himself though.
..We're 8-8 till we're not!
They say the cool is all over me..
If so, he will be the best LB to ever play this game!
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 15, 2011 1:16 PM MST up reply actions
Definitely agree with Mays
The nickle package should be the squad on the field most of the game. I still expect a lot of 4-3 because we have a real small line at times in the nickle. This past week i noticed a line of Miller, Ayers, Hunter, Dumervil, but i think if we are playing nickle on first down Bunkley or possibly Thomas will play DT instead of Hunter. I expect lots of stunts with Miller dropping back occasionally, DJ and secondary blitzes.
Anyone who think Champ can shut out Welker is nuts. Most underrated player by far, even without a WR deep threat Wekler burns corners and has amazing hands and ability to get up field. Welker is gonna get his catches, he just is. I would stick Champ on him mostly but wouldnt to be surprised to see Harris get his action especially in the slot. As for Gronk and Hernandez, i would use Harris on hernandez probably when champ is on welker and i would use combo of Woodyard, DJ and even Von on Gronk. Those 3 should all cover him and rush the passer and drop back in a zone, confuse Brady as much as possible.
Von Miller for DPOY '12
by BroncofanfromBoston on Dec 14, 2011 11:12 AM MST reply actions
I noticed this DL formation a couple times also
If you just need to rush the passer, it’s awesome. But BB is a smart coach, and so I Brady… if they see this kind of line, they will hurt us by rushing.
I agree Welker is an underrated WR, however I do think Brady is a big part of how good he looks. However it’s not a lack of anything that makes me think about Bailey shuting him down, but the game experience and skills our CB has. Sure a few times he’ll be burned, but he can do an awesome job as we saw several times in Denver.
I like your LB combo idea… I think anything we do too much will get figured and beaten by BB, but mixing all those packages and ideas can work properly trying to stop the Pats.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 11:31 AM MST up reply actions
A lot of stunts for sure and Wilhite has 2 sacks and knows Brady like a book, defending against him in practice for two years...
"What's better than 5 - 0?!?...[The whole locker room] 6 - 0"!!!
Head Coach John Fox in the locker room madness following a 13-10 victory over the Bears...
by bfree2bronc on Dec 14, 2011 12:59 PM MST up reply actions
I think we match up OK with their TE's
No question — NE uses their TE’s better than any team in the league. But for the last few weeks, they have also played against teams (exc PHI) that are weak v TE’s.
My biggest worry is actually shutting down their WR’s. If we can do that – and can pressure Brady enough (so that TE’s have to block more); then our main worry re the TE’s is gonna be in the red zone. Which is a problem – but hey – we shouldn’t let NE get into the red zone.
Keeping Brady far from our redzone is very hard task to accomplish
We also need to have an answer to this situations…
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 11:32 AM MST up reply actions
Indeed
But that’s why NE is a very good team. I don’t think anyone has ever believed that this game isn’t one of the toughest on our schedule this year.
I did since the beginning
Packers > Patriots > the rest
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 12:28 PM MST up reply actions
5'9 Chris Harris vs. 6'6 Gronk!??!?!??!?!
Do you see why I’m skeptical lol
My best guess wold be to put WW on him, but even that is a huge mismatch. I think in the redzone we will definitly have to double team him
C'mon, join us, there's plenty of koolaid on the Broncos bandwagon for everyone!
Not a big difference in terms of size, Broncs
Chris Harris – 5 ft 10, 190 lbs
Wesley Woodyard – 6 ft 1, 229 lbs
But considering Harris has a huge better coverage than WW, since he plays cornerback.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 11:34 AM MST up reply actions
3 inches and 40 lbs is pretty substantial Fabio
My concern is speed and agility. Can WW keep up with Gronk?
"I wouldn't call it Tebow Time I'd call it Bronco Time"- Tim Tebow
I don't think anyone keep up with Gronk without help.
Whoever coach Denis Allen decides to gameplan, he must count with Dawkins giving a little hand to stop him imo.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 3:27 PM MST up reply actions
Punch 'Dolph' in the mouth everytime he comes off the line
to disrupt the precious, precious timing of the pass play and sack Brady….a lot.
okay, next question?
Victory is sweet, even deep in the cheap seats.
by KoloradoKaos on Dec 14, 2011 11:50 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
The only way to stop Gronk and Brady in general....
I can’t believe you guys whiffed on this one. The only way to stop them is with #15. And I’m not kidding. Tim needs to keep the chains moving and the ball in our hands. brady can’t do anything but yell at his O.C. if he’s on the bench all day.
You are right, Triz
It’s a whole team task… keeping their offense off the field is another very important part to stop them!
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 11:35 AM MST up reply actions
Thats why it's important for our receivers to hang onto the ball early in the game so they can keep the chains moving...
Rex Grossman and the Redskins offense were able to do that throughout the game taking the time of possession. The Skins shot themselves in the foot more than once and had the opportunity to win it…Rex Grossman is no Timmy Tebow though…
"What's better than 5 - 0?!?...[The whole locker room] 6 - 0"!!!
Head Coach John Fox in the locker room madness following a 13-10 victory over the Bears...
Man for a minute there I thought you were gonna ask Tim to play LB and stop Gronk!
"I wouldn't call it Tebow Time I'd call it Bronco Time"- Tim Tebow
I thought the same for a moment lol
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 3:33 PM MST up reply actions
Funny thing is
If Fox asked, I bet Tim would try and do an OK job of it. I bet Tim would lay the wood to Gronk more than once
No doubt about it
He is the most willful player I’ve ever seen..
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 15, 2011 3:56 PM MST up reply actions
Not sure it's #15 himself
But the ball control offense that Fox has run for 13 games thus far.
I’d like to see how this successful formula stacks up to a blitzkreig passing offense like the Pats.
Your right, this post is how to stop Gronk though, not beat the Pats
Chris Harris is a beast, its funny to say but i have more trust in him in coverage over any healthy d-back we have excluding champ.
Von Miller for DPOY '12
by BroncofanfromBoston on Dec 14, 2011 11:35 AM MST reply actions
I don't know if you were sarcastic here, but I agree entirely with you, bffb!
To beat the Pats is a very hard task and we need a lot of things happening properly, the offense included. One of the tasks, and probably what feares me the most, is Rob Gronkowski… I think this is the start to thinking how to beat them. First of all we need to shut him down, because if not, we are done anyway.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 11:38 AM MST up reply actions
Beating the Pats involves a lot more than one TE to worry about
We have a lot of experience in our division with elite TE’s — two games per year v Antonio Gates, Tony gonzalez (a while back), etc.
Gronkandez will get their receptions. But the more Brady throws to them, the more he will risk interceptions. I’m more worried about the WR’s
Your post makes sense...
But what WRs are you worried about? Welker runs similar routes to a tight end. So even though he is listed as a WR, defending him is like defending a TE in a way. The rest of the guys on that team are bad. Ocho Cinco still doesn’t know the offense, Branch is hurt, and the other guys are good for 1 or 2 catches a game if they are lucky. The top recievers on that team are Wes, Gronk, and Hernandez. That is their team right there.
I know Ocho and Branch haven't had good years
But our weakness is CB and we haven’t really faced strong passing teams (apart from Det and GB). The Pats have played against a lot of teams with strong CB’s. BB takes advantage of weaknesses. I suspect he wants to put us in a deep hole very early on – and force us to pass. Which means early targets to Welker, Ocho, Branch.
The one thing I am glad about
is that NE has done nothing this year to pull their RB’s into the receiving mix. Of course they don’t really need to with their TE’s as checkdowns. But still – that would be a monster trouble if they had RB’s as checkdown options as well.
I see what you mean...
but I watch NE games all the time. Ocho is hardly on the field. They pull him off when they run hurry up… which they do a lot. He has 13 catches this entire season and hasn’t been injured at all. Branch, I heard, suffered a groin injury and isn’t a big threat either way. Its welker and the TEs. Champ is champ…. brady learned his lesson about throwing on champ in Denver. Our LBs are not great in coverage, they will work the middle of the field with those guys.
It doesn't matter who the Broncos assign to cover 'Dolph'
because the Bill Belichik film crew is currently recording the practices at Dove Valley so the Pats already know who is going to cover him and how they will attack that un-lucky player.
Victory is sweet, even deep in the cheap seats.
So let's mix a few differente coverage and blitz packages
And mess with his mind =)
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 11:39 AM MST up reply actions
Right
Line Bunkley up on him, then switch to Bailey, switch to DJ and WW as the ball is snapped. Mix and repeat.
Bottom line, VonBoom will have to have a career day to stop that passing attack. I’d like to see a repeat of Brady on the sidelines jawing with his OC.
I wonder what actually went down between those two. I’m sure Brady was pissed about the INT but I wonder if he was butt hurt b/c the OC had the never to chastise him, him, Tom Brady.
Victory is sweet, even deep in the cheap seats.
by KoloradoKaos on Dec 14, 2011 11:44 AM MST up reply actions
Good idea... Brady's probably never even seen a blitz
by profootballfan on Dec 14, 2011 12:31 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
His quick delivery and fantastic reads are an awesome quality
However if he pressured can score a ton of points, if you don’t be creative on the calls he will make 100 pts or more. He can’t have 10 sec to throw.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 12:37 PM MST up reply actions
You're right but, the key is: pressure Brady up the middle - not with a blitz
by profootballfan on Dec 14, 2011 12:41 PM MST up reply actions
Exactly.
Pressure the middle, attack the gap, bliz the edge. LBs have to handle quick release. This year, NE has issues with center so G & T have to help.
Me: Words can fool men but Nature doesn't give a damn!
David Brooks: The premise of the current financial regulatory reform is that the establishment missed the last bubble and, therefore, more power should be vested in the establishment to foresee and prevent the next one.
Stopping Gronk ?
Fabio, the title of your post is “My plan to stop Rob Gronkowski !”. Rob Gronkowski is 6’6" tall and weighs 265 lbs – he’s an f’ing beast and your idea is to put a 5’10", 190lb safety on this guy ?? In case you haven’t seen him in action, Gronkowski runs over men like Harris, he merely throws-off players that are more his stature. Denver ain’t gonna stop Rob Gronkowski with a measly little safety, the Broncos must double RG to have a chance at stopping him. which is fine because Brady will simply deliver the ball to the open receiver – whoever that may be.
by profootballfan on Dec 14, 2011 12:30 PM MST reply actions
Sure.. I also saw the ride he gave to Ryan Kerrigan last week
But I’d like to avoid him catching first of all. When he got the ball, lord helps us. However I agree the plan is not only matching Harris in front of him, but having a safety help to make a 2-on-1 against him. I can be nuts, but I think it’s our best shot on sunday….
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 12:34 PM MST up reply actions
on Sunday
If the Broncos can slow Gronk down… keep him from catching a bunch of passes… I’ll tip my hat to you and marvel at Denver’s defensive prowess. But, if the Broncos key on Gronkowski, yet allow a 10 catch, 2 TD day for Welker, then I’ll promptly put my cap back on.
by profootballfan on Dec 14, 2011 12:47 PM MST up reply actions
Ok, but what do you think about plugging Champ Bailey on Welker wherever he aligns?
He will make some catches? Sure… But I think Bailey can handle him very well and avoid 10 catches for 2 TDs, don’t you?
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 1:38 PM MST up reply actions
Yes I do
So… put Champ Bailey (is he still a shut-down corner?) on Welker and limit the damage that Welker usually does. Then all Denver has to do is figure out a way to cover the two tight-ends, Gronkowski & Hernandez – Gronk plays every down, Hernandez about half that.
by profootballfan on Dec 14, 2011 1:50 PM MST up reply actions
I'm sure he is, that's my poin
And tha’ts where I think we can capitalize an advantage we have…
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 1:56 PM MST up reply actions
Yes Champ is still a shutdown corner
But IMO it would be a mistake to put him on Welker. Too much trash for Champ to deal with in the slot. Put him on the vertical – if Brady tests him, intercept. If not, Champ can close in on whoever gets the ball inside.
This may be the game where Tim plays the "Iron Man" and defends against the "gronk"
"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today." James Dean
I've gone back and forth on this a lot
And I’m just not sure how DA plans to account for this man-beast. I think Champ probably takes Welker in this game for the most part. Branch is good, but he’s not exactly a #1 WR. Goody should be fine covering him, so long as he’s back in the lineup. Ochocinco isn’t really much of a threat this year. Hernandez is a good TE, but he’s nothing amazing.
So put Champ on Welker and forget about it. Not that he’ll be completely shut down, but that way it’s one less thing to worry about. And now you can focus solely on Gronk. Not sure how DA will handle it still, but I can’t wait to find out. I think my best guess at this point would be to have DJ and Woody take turns, and give them safety help in the form of Dawk/Carter.
Teams that want to bend it like Brady better be ready to get broken like Cassel. We hurt quarterbacks and we take picks to he house. It's what we do.
You got my point, Rod.
I think it’s the best shot we have by putting Bailey on Welker and Goody + Moore (or Carter) on Branch/85. We end with an OLB (likely DJ) on Hernandez and a big beast to handle.
My guess is to use Chris Harris on him for the most snaps, since he is better in coverage than any other LB… How Gronk is beefy, we bring Dawkins behind him to bring him to the ground whenever he makes a catch. I don’t think it’s effective to do anything for the whole time, so I’d like to see a few packages also with your idea of DJ and WW taking turns to cover him and keep the D more unpredictable.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 1:45 PM MST up reply actions
Hernandez runs routes like a wide-out
…might be difficult for a linebacker to stay with him.
by profootballfan on Dec 14, 2011 1:52 PM MST up reply actions
So would you suggest a dime package!?
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 2:06 PM MST up reply actions
It's an option but...
If Denver goes with six defensive backs – Brady will check out of the pass-play called and hand the ball off – hell, the last couple of weeks he’s been carrying the ball himself for five or six yards.
by profootballfan on Dec 14, 2011 2:46 PM MST up reply actions
I'd like to see him carrying into Mays or Dawkins direction...
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 2:52 PM MST up reply actions
I'd like to see him carry in Von's direction.
Unprotected, blind side. Yep.
It's not possible, bizzle
He’ll be still dropping back and thinking about to carry in his direction when… POW.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 15, 2011 1:17 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree the more I think about it I think DJ and some WW
Having him covered by a CB is a bad idea. I re-watched the Oak NE game.
The only times they had some success against Gronk was with a LB (Wimbley or McLain). Or when he had to help with blocking the effectiveness of our pass rush is KEY.
Also on a side note the effectiveness of Willis in the run game. We need to win the TOP and reduce the number of possessions so Brady has to try and score each possession and we can pin our ears back.
Tebow: always ends with a W
The keys of any defenses success against Tom Brady and his offense is pressure pressure and more pressure...
Tom only needs 1.5 to 2.3 seconds to make a passing play successful. Von Miller has shown he can get in the backfield at the QB in 1.7 seconds. That and incredible feat and shows Von’s athleticism. Dumervil takes about 2 seconds to get there. The Redskins gave Brady 3+ seconds on several passing plays when they knew the pass was coming. The Skins were bringing pressure but did they do enough? Brady’s passes were off atarget a lot in that game but still made the ones he needed. That was a problem for the Skins. Dennis Allen has to disguise what the defense is doing on every play (don’t give Tom the same look more than once he’ll eat you up)…
I stated yesterday that I would displace Robert Ayers with Mario haggan and have him mirror Gronkowski on every play hitting him at the line and not letting him out. Haggan can do this as long as Gronk isn’t beyond the LOS and the ball is in the air…Shadow him on every play not letting him break tackles for the huge gains he makes after the catch like he did in Washington (burnt them for 2 TDs after the catch)…If Haggan is used against Gronk then he will need to hit he and make a statement that you don’t bring that crap on me. The Skins tried using DBs on Gronk and it didn’t work, not even with two defenders ahold of him…
Champ on Branch – enough said on that…
Chris Harris will probably play in Goodman’s stead as I don’t believe he will be ready for this game, so he will be tasked to take on Hernandez or Welker. That’s a tall order for the UFA, but he has shown flashes of greatness since being onboard…
Wilhite will be the NickleBack I suppose and he hails from New England so he knows Tom’s traits and how he operates. I would have and Wesley Woodyard roam around and catch Woodhead or Green Ellis out of the backfield or help out with Welker underneath.
The bottom line is to pressure Brady and cover the receivers. We do that and we should be OK. If BDawk is able to play I doubt we will see Rahim Moore as Quinten Carter has played better at Safety. Carter is learning a lot from his ‘big brother’ and should have a good game. No arm tackling please, wrap up the receivers and tackle them, something that the Redskins struggled with on Sunday.
Was Rex Grossman better than Timmy Tebow can be this week? I sure as heck hope not as Rexy was sacked for not having a pocket presence and no legs. Grossman made a lot of mental errors in that game that he should have won. Tebow has the legs to get away from impending sacks and should get those yards Grossman left on the field. DThomas and Decker have to come out from the tunnel ready to play not get ready in the 4th qtr…
This game could be 43-39 and whoever outscores the other will win, I don’t see this coming down to needing 10 points in the last 3 minutes and pulling it out. We have to have the lead in this one and wear down the whale (Wilfork) and they’re defense…It can be done because the Skins ran all over them when they needed to…
"What's better than 5 - 0?!?...[The whole locker room] 6 - 0"!!!
Head Coach John Fox in the locker room madness following a 13-10 victory over the Bears...
by bfree2bronc on Dec 14, 2011 12:52 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
bfree
The Patriots have the unique ability to make ordinary QB’s like Rex Grossman look like Joe Montana – it’s been hideous watching the N.E. pass defenders essentially be the Keystone Cops. This said – I believe that getting Chung back will help the cause and I don’t really fear the left arm of Tim Tebow.
You’ll probably see some early success from the Bronco pass rushers, it may take Brady/Belichick a few possessions to adjust the pass protection but, figure it out they will. The key to this football game lies with the Patriots defense – if the Pats D actually shows up, it will be a long day for Bronco fans.
by profootballfan on Dec 14, 2011 1:14 PM MST up reply actions
Chung won't be back
Still in a boot, didn’t practice today. Spikes might return, who is a more integral piece to this game, imo.
Can I Scream?
That sucks... must be saving Chung for the tough games
by profootballfan on Dec 14, 2011 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
Chung has played in 6 games this year.
He has 55 total tackles, 36 solo. He has 0 forced fumbles, 4 deflected passes, and one pick in that time.
Nearly 40-year old Dawkins has 48 tackles, 35 solo, 4 sacks, 7 passes deflected, and a forced fumble.
Our rookie free safety, Quinton Carter, that has started maybe half the time, has similar stats as Chung.
You must have quite the crush on this Chung guy – seems like a mediocre, fragile China doll far as I’m concerned. I truly hope he’s back. I’d love to see him defend a Tebow throw. On the following play, I want to see him try and square up on Timmy on a 40-yard run. We all saw how that worked out for Revis.
Great points, Bill
I know you got the key for this game on the defense. Never be predictable. We’ll have to mix some packages and formations in order to disguise what we are doing when the ball is hiked.
You had a great idea putting a mirror to Gronk on he LOS. But I don’t think it will work the whole afternoon. That’s my problem trying to figure out how to stop him. He’ll get used to whatever we do and we need to have another answer. And to me, nothing better for us than avoiding him to catch the ball by putting a decent coverage CB who can tackle if he can get the ball. If he also he can’t bring the beast down, at least we have Dawkins coming to finish the tackle.
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I bleed Orange & Blue. GB².
by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 2:33 PM MST up reply actions
Here is the BIGGEST problem for me.
Brady regularly hits seven to eight different receivers in every game! Always. Not once in a while. It IS the game plan to get everyone involved. Stop one and there is another. The key is Tom’s comfort level. That has to be the key on D.
Someone else said that the key is #15. I agree. If Tim is on the field, Tom is not. And airing it out often and early is what I want to see from Tim. Just hoping for a good showing from our receivers. Just catch what you should and we will win this one.
"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today." James Dean
I read something somewhere
that leads me to believe that if we combine a mixture of well planned blitz’s with hitting gronk at the line to slow him up, that may be what will work the best.
It is better to keep silent, and appear to be wise, then to ramble on aimlessly and remove all doubt! The Wisest Man, Solomon.
by metalman5050 on Dec 16, 2011 10:13 AM MST up reply actions
I agree about the pressure.
If you put Brady on his butt it affects his game, but you have to do it all day.
Warning: If you're reading this it has been censored.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
Hitting Brady is good and bad
because the Defense is guaranteed a couple personal fouls because it’s Tom Brady. Let us hope that the 15 yarders will not come at inopportune times and that the defensive players can keep their cool when flagged.
Victory is sweet, even deep in the cheap seats.
by KoloradoKaos on Dec 15, 2011 10:50 AM MST up reply actions
Here is an interesting article...By Andy Bonoit,
"What's better than 5 - 0?!?...[The whole locker room] 6 - 0"!!!
Head Coach John Fox in the locker room madness following a 13-10 victory over the Bears...
Dang...
"What's better than 5 - 0?!?...[The whole locker room] 6 - 0"!!!
Head Coach John Fox in the locker room madness following a 13-10 victory over the Bears...
Thank you for the add, Bill
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I bleed Orange & Blue. GB².
by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 6:14 PM MST up reply actions
Great assessments
Your take on the Patriots receiver corps is spot on – except for Hernandez, this kid is better than you think – wait ’tl you see him in action. Gronk runs over people, Hernandez slip by them and gets that extra two or three yards… on every catch.
Branch is a wily veteran and has Brady’s full confidence but, he’s beyond his prime. Ochocinco will spend most of his time on sidelines – he may be thrown to twice – he may get one catch.
Welker will be tough to cover – he’s the best slot receiver in the business – you can hit him hard and he’ll shake it off – the guy’s really good.
Brady has tried to find the rookie WR, Underwood, a few times – the kid needs another season before he contributes (if at all).
by profootballfan on Dec 14, 2011 12:59 PM MST reply actions
The Key to Belicheks offense is the offensive line.
There isnt a team in the NFL who has had such good, consistent protection in the last 5 years than the Patriots. The right side of the line (Solder and Waters) can be had. Everyone else is really good. Waters is a wonderful run blocker as we know, but I think we can get him with a good pass rush.
The Patriots WR’s are not very special except for Welker, however with our injuries its a bit of a concern. If goodman is 100% Branch wont be much of a factor.
Wilhite scares me. He doesnt look great in coverage.
Harris has had experience with big fast receivers (Calvin Johnson). Gronk isnt as good, I think Chris can be relied on sometimes for coverage but I dunno if we can do it all game. I think the important thing is that we need DJ, Wood, Carter and Harris definitely there on 3rd downs.
shy
Ahhhh…. Gronkowski is not only fast, he’s 6’ 6" and 265 lbs !! I’m guessing Calvin Johnson did not run over Harris – Gronk will. Wait ‘til you see this guy… that’s all I can say… wait ’til you see this guy.
This is the AFC West
We – spec OAK and us – have played v elite TE’s for two decades. The modern TE was invented in this division. Gronk had 1 rec for 15 yds v OAK. He’ll do better than that here this week but don’t get too wrapped up that he has run over nobodies this year. 265 lbs is a lot of weight to run around in at one mile high.
yibber
BostonBronco speaks the truth.
Pats concentrated on running the football (185 yds) vs. Oakland though Welker did have nine catches for 158 yds. Brady threw to seven different guys that Sunday but, Gronk only had one catch.
New England will run the ball for sure vs. Denver but, it’s through the air that the Pats really get it done.
by profootballfan on Dec 14, 2011 3:25 PM MST up reply actions
I'm very aware of that
But the reality is that Gronkandez will wear out by the 2nd half if the receiving game is on their shoulders. 10% less oxygen up here. For a big guy like Gronk, it’ll feel like he’s lugging 300 lbs around.
Please tell me you're not comparing G-force to Megatron..
Gronk is indeed an elite TE but his speed and route running aren’t even close to Megatron.
I’ll give you that he will be hard to tackle but not so hard to catch.
"I wouldn't call it Tebow Time I'd call it Bronco Time"- Tim Tebow
I am... in a way
Calvin Johnson is a terrific wide-out but, Gronk is the more dangerous offensive weapon. Certainly, some of this is due to the fact that Gronkowski has a real quarterback throwing the football to him – nonetheless, I’ll take Gronkowski over Johnson any day.
by profootballfan on Dec 14, 2011 3:38 PM MST up reply actions
I'd choose Megatron over 2 Gronks (and not talking about any brother) any day
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I bleed Orange & Blue. GB².
by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 6:15 PM MST up reply actions
Fab
Really… one Calvin Johnson instead of two Rob Gronkowski’s – bet you change your mind by late Sunday afternoon.
Johnson had 6 catches for 125 yards (one big play of 56 yds) and 1 TD when the Lions kicked the crap out of the Broncos in week 8. Let’s see how Gronkowski does on Sunday.
by profootballfan on Dec 16, 2011 10:02 AM MST up reply actions
I have seen him, every game this year
Man crush aside (which clearly you have), he still plays like a second year player against athletic secondary/LB defenses. Killed the ‘skins last week, no question. But was a non-factor in the Steelers game, SD handled him, the Jets first matchup he had 4 catches, Giants game he was 8-15 (catches to targets) and 2 pick. Yes, he’s a huge part of their offense, and a beast on YAC. But he’s no Shannon Sharpe, Tony Gonzalez, or even Gates in his prime. Could he become better? Absolutely. He’s only in his second year. And because of that you can still confuse him with coverages he hasn’t seen. Put a slow LB or a safety with marginal coverage skills, and he’ll eat them alive. But when teams haven’t done that, he’s had no impact on the outcome of the game. Check the stats if you don’t believe me.
I agree
He’s very good but he’s still young. And his opponents since the bye haven’t been exactly stellar v TE’s — PIT (#8), NYG (#17), NYJ (#25), KC (#27), PHI (#2), IND (#26), WAS (#29)
He’s had great matchups – and has taken full advantage of BB coaching away from some of those teams excellent CB’s.
We’re #16 v TE’s – and have altitude on our side. And our CB’s are more likely to be tested instead.
shasta
If you’ve seen him play every game this year, you know how good he is and you know he’ll continue to be a record-setter for years to come. Better than Sharpe, better than Gonzalez and better than Gates.
Sharpe had 22 catches for 322 yards his 2nd year in the league – his best year ever, he had 87 catches for 1010 yards – most TD’s in a season were 10. Gonzalez had 59 catches for 621 yards in his 2nd year – best season ever 102 catches for 1258 yards – his high for TD’s was 11.
Through 13 games this season (his 2nd year) Gronkowski sits at 71 catches for 1088 yards with 15 TD’s. You’re right he’s no Shannon Sharpe or Tony Gonzalez – he’s just that much better.
Check the stats if you don’t believe me.
by profootballfan on Dec 14, 2011 3:59 PM MST up reply actions
I don't have to, you're right. But it's early in his career.
Football is a mean game. Been a litany of greats through 4 years that had no Fifth. Fantastic through 6 and disappear thereafter, can you say Gayle Sayers? Look at how Kellen Winslow (the first, not the pale shadow second) took the league by storm, then just fizzled out due to injuries. You start extrapolating someone’s numbers in year 2 and your bound to be disappointed. Let’s see where he is in year 5. That’s when you’ll have a clearer perception. He has all the tools. In 10 years, we’ll see where they take him.
Keep in mind he won’t have Brady that whole time either, maybe not even Belichick. Sharpe learned what leaving Elway could do to his numbers. I like Gronk’s skills. But he still has a lot to learn, as would be true for any second year player (or own Tebow included). That’s what makes this such a fun game to watch and analyze.
Ive watched him since his days in the pac-10. I know all about him.
He is a great athlete and can make plays. He is a good football player but probably overrated in your mind.
Maybe... maybe not.
We’ll all get to see how underrated Gronk is this coming Sunday at Mile High.
by profootballfan on Dec 14, 2011 4:03 PM MST up reply actions
Im also guessing you havent seen Chris Harris
Similar player to Brent Grimes. The guy is an excellent open field tackler.
Gronkowski is fast…for a guy his size. But Johnson was faster for a guy his size (if that makes any sense). Harris has experience playing against an athletic freak and that was the whole point of my post.
shy
I understood the point of your post – Harris has the skill to stop Rob Gronkowski.
Your guess is correct – I couldn’t pick Chris Harris out of lineup – I have no idea how well he plays CB.
by profootballfan on Dec 14, 2011 4:12 PM MST up reply actions
Kinda
Harris has experience against a special player so he may be better suited to play against him.
Yeah Gronk is unreal. Hernandez is good but theres no doubt Gronk and Welker are the two main targets. Branch gets action too but Gronx especially on the opponents side of the field may be the most dangerous player in the game. Jimmy Graham and Megatron are elite too, but this guy is just a freak and a mismatch nightmare. Need Dawkins to knock him the eff out.
Von Miller for DPOY '12
by BroncofanfromBoston on Dec 14, 2011 2:48 PM MST reply actions
Yes, agree entirely with this thought
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 3:35 PM MST up reply actions
I dont think there is any receiver/tight end i would take over Gronk. His blocking is top tier for a TE as well. Kid is gonna be special for a long time. TD machine
Von Miller for DPOY '12
by BroncofanfromBoston on Dec 14, 2011 2:49 PM MST reply actions
I agree with Fabio mostly
Champ on Welker; dedicate an LB to Gronk; Corners play up tight with Safety rolled over to each side; Whoever lines up on Gronk must chuck him at the line on every play, probably for a full 5 yards. Send Von and Doom around the edge every time and a total of 5 rushers with one backer falling back to cover the middle for whoever crosses. Bottom line is Brady cannot be allowed to remain comfortable.
Thank you, KnoMo
I think if we do this, we have a fair shot to avoid a ton of points against us….
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 3:37 PM MST up reply actions
It's simple, you stop Gronk
by letting him go to Playboy Mansion for free 
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 14, 2011 5:47 PM MST reply actions
The best one, actually
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I bleed Orange & Blue. GB².
by Fabio Broncos on Dec 14, 2011 6:22 PM MST up reply actions
Now we need to have her on the sideline in a Broncos cheerleading out.
Floyd Little: HOF Class of 2010.
2009-10 back-to-back NBA Champions L.A Lakers
2009-10 NBA Finals MVP Kobe Bryant
noooooo
Or he will be motivated to score a lot of TDs and go kiss her! (I’m looking at you Cowboy’s cheerleader…)
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 15, 2011 6:44 AM MST up reply actions
I think the best defense:
Bailey on Hernandez
Bracket Gronkowski between a linebacker and a safety at all times
Harris on Welker
Whoever else is playing on injured Branch/ineffective Ochocinco/Underwood.
The Pats won’t typically put their TEs to block in the passing game because they favor the 3 tackle set, where Nate Solder kicks out to the “tight end” spot and a tackle comes on the field to play RT.
I actually like that
I think Bailey and Harris could be interchangeable there as well.
by ShyandObese on Dec 14, 2011 10:28 PM MST up reply actions
Hey Richard, thanks for the input
We also use this “extra tackle package” sometimes…
In this case, I’d keep Bailey on Welker…. Goody/replacement on Branch…. and than put Harris AND Dawkins on Gronk. Our best rushing LBs DJ and Von Miller would mix some dropping into cover with rushing the passer plays, besides looking for an inside handoff or off-tackle pitch.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 15, 2011 6:53 AM MST up reply actions
Don't forget a jam on Gronk at the line Fabio
I like Harris over top Gronk, with a bigger player underneath to hit him at the line. I have not seen a lot of the Pats this year, but over the years they have liked to keep a defensive group on the field that they would choose to try to exploit by way of sugar huddle, so it is very important our D can change formations, or at least the look of them, with the players they have on the field. Having Von and DJ and WW will help with this. It would not surprise me if we have WW out there quite a bit, with Von switching between DE and LB throughout the game, much like our typical 3rd down nickel package which is kind of like a 3-3-5 only with Von Miller around the line, and sacrifice the 2nd DT on several plays.
I hope Harris is up for the challenge, and thanks for the shout out!
Drinkin the kool-aid, smokin the Orange Kush
This is what I expect to see as well
It’s how defenses have tried to deal with S. Sharpe, Gonzalez, and Gates over the years. If you have the right personnel it can be quite effective. And you are right, if the Pats go with a no-huddle you want personnel on the field that can make it happen. Don’t see a lot of Joe Mays minutes if they go no-huddle. I could actually see them swapping Hagan in as a DT to add further flexibility. He rushes the passer well, stuffs the run, and can contain the edge. Unlike past years, I think we actually have the bodies to compete with the Pats this year. And we’re at home, so you’ve got the altitude in our favor.
Yeah
AFC West is a TE talent maker. Impressive! Sharpe, Gonzalez, Gates… now we have Moeaki, Boss (on the spot of another great one – Zach Miller). I don’t think there is another division of that bright history at the position.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 15, 2011 6:58 AM MST up reply actions
You are right, boanst
Jamming the monster is crucial to this task. And what a responsibilty to an UDFA huh? But I’m really liking what he is showing so far. And, althought I think Cassius and Syd’Quan both have some upside, Harris is our young CB prospect I like the most. At least until the next draft and I’m sure it will remain this way. Btw, the other UDFA Woodyard also deserves some love.. he is doing a great job. I also like your 3-3-5 package to be used some plays. To me, the key to slow their offense is mixing creative packages to keep unpredictable… besides disguising a few moves before the snap.
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 15, 2011 6:56 AM MST up reply actions
Stop Gronk? Better off to set sights on Brady
Gronk is currently the top TE in the league…. Here’s my arguement:
When we look at the list of the best TEs in the league, we see, Graham, Whitten, Gonzales and Gates in addition to the Gronk. I believe a very good argument can be made when arranging these guys neck and neck from #5 to #1 when evaluating just their ability to run a route and catch a ball. However, most average fans completely forget about the importance of blocking skills for that position. A TE is required to block a little over half the number of plays he’s in the game for! Yet, we rarely see, or hear about that because it’s not very glamourous! This is where I believe Gronk distances himself from the other “greats”.
The more I see this guy block, the more convinced I am Belichick could slide him into an Offensive Guard slot in an emergency situation and the guy would perform on the same level as the other top 10 Guards in the league. I believe the other TEs cannot come close to saying that. This guy is an animal in openfield as well as the trenches.
So, how do you stop Gronk? I believe the best (and possibly ONLY) way is to pressure Brady and limit the number of quality balls thrown his way!
Tim needs to play both ways in this game! He can shut down the "gronk"
"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today." James Dean
Elite Teams look so silly sometimes
Brady’s record against Denver is really bad..in fact the whole Patriots team has a more than losing record against the Broncos..
I don’t see anything changing that.
If you think Monday was fun after the Jets game..wait until the Monday coming.
"We've clawed our way back in this thing," safety Brian Dawkins said."We're going to go out and give it everything we got."
Lord listen to you!
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by Fabio Broncos on Dec 16, 2011 9:14 AM MST up reply actions
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