What has happened to Eric Decker and Von Miller?
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What they have uncovered is obvious
Miller is playing with one freaking hand!!! It’s no secret!!! Like Fox said… “it’s hard enough to play this game with two hands.”
"If you went to the Fair with this guy and you played that game where you have to throw the ball through the hole..... he may never get it through the hole, but he's still gonna be walking away with all the stuffed animals!" Prime's commentary on our very own Tim Tebow!!!
"As iron sharpens iron, so will one man sharpen another." The Bible, by way of Tim Tebow.
"If I had to choose between an abundance of football intelligence, or football wisdom, I'd choose wisdom every single time...... John Fox has enough football wisdom to be carried in a dump truck." Me!
Pale-Calm Down
Your heart can’t take this! He is right! Von is not playing with the same intensity he had been playing with. I understand the hand, but I also think the longer season is taking a toll on him. He is a speed guy, and that burst is missing-That has nothing to do with his hand.
by MileHighPride on Dec 27, 2011 11:22 AM MST up reply actions
Any move a pass rusher makes
requires the use of both hands. And pain is easy to manage when you are not the one experiencing it :)
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
by Disturbed70 on Dec 27, 2011 11:37 AM MST up reply actions
I agree the longer season thing may be contributing a little as well.
..We're 8-8 till we're not!
They say the cool is all over me..
Yep. They call it the rookie wall
And a sophomore slump. Most guys take a couple years to get acclimated to the rigors of a full NFL season.
I don't get it...
In the Pats game he hit Brady… but because brady dropped the ball first its not technically a sack.
Then in the Buffalo game he didn’t get one.
How is that a decline? Reggie white, Derrick Thomas, Dumervil, LT, Bruce Smith, all had games without a sack. If he were to go half a season without 1, I’d be worried. But 2 games? Really 1 game b/c I don’t even count the Pats games since he hit the QB in teh backfield for a loss. I could care less what the stat line says. Is it that you ppl don’t watch games and just read the box score?
by Triz06 on Dec 27, 2011 2:42 PM MST up reply actions 4 recs
Please people.... make this go green
I guess Demarcus Ware is MIA as well because he doesn’t get a sack every single game… Jared Allen too. Puh-Leeeez!!!!
"If you went to the Fair with this guy and you played that game where you have to throw the ball through the hole..... he may never get it through the hole, but he's still gonna be walking away with all the stuffed animals!" Prime's commentary on our very own Tim Tebow!!!
"As iron sharpens iron, so will one man sharpen another." The Bible, by way of Tim Tebow.
"If I had to choose between an abundance of football intelligence, or football wisdom, I'd choose wisdom every single time...... John Fox has enough football wisdom to be carried in a dump truck." Me!
Wow Pale and Triz- We just aren't on the same boat.
Von had 8 tackles vs SD and since then 5 total! How is that? Why is that? This is not the production he showed earlier in the year. A number 2 pick should at least have 2 tackles a game don’t you think? Teams have learned how to combat his speed. Miller needs to adjust. I watched him in Buffalo he kept spinning inside and the tackles pushed him down like a doll. He didn’t even have a tackle in Buffalo….NOT EVEN A TACKLE! Yes a full-time starter without a tackle in a game is MIA! Period end of story! Make this GREEN! Not even a Tackle in a must win type game. To say I’m pissed is an understatment!
by MileHighPride on Dec 27, 2011 3:14 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
to add
How many starting LB’s in the league have games with no tackles? We lost by 26 pts and one of our best players on D doesn’t even get a tackle. How can you defend that?
by MileHighPride on Dec 27, 2011 3:21 PM MST up reply actions
Buffalo scored 21 points while our defense was standing by the water cooler.
And that doesn’t include the short field Buffalo was given on the INT that wasn’t a pick 6 (led to 3pts) and the lengthy punt returns.
And we lost by 26 points because the offense gave up as many points as they scored. If our defense pitched a shut out we still would have lost by 7. And what difference does it make how much we lost by. A loss is a loss.
Sacks is a hard to get stat. No one is freaking about him not registering a sack.
Its the tackles. Prior to the Patriots game, Miller could be seen all over the field making takles. Now he can barely shed blocks from below-average lineman. There were a few cases against the Bills where Von was simply man handled or took bad lines in the first place. The short Spiller touchdown should have been a TFL, but Von misread and was out of position. No one is saying he is a bust people. Just saying his production has sharply declined, and that there are multiple factors contributing to this…. injury, rookie experience, a season-worth of exhaustion, etc.
..We're 8-8 till we're not!
They say the cool is all over me..
Thanks Teboner
You said this with much better class than me. Thank you!
by MileHighPride on Dec 27, 2011 3:40 PM MST up reply actions
I watched...he missed assignments, gaps and over pursued...he was not the only one to suck against BUF but he did.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
Normally I'd say I'll go back and watch the tape...
But there is no need since there is no way 1 game can dictate that a player is in decline. I can’t even say that 2 games indicates a decline especially with an injury that we know about. No telling what else might be wrong with him this late in the season.
Von sucked...bad hand or not...against BUF...he missed on Spiller big time on his 30 yard run....he needs to pull his head out of his ass and start playing with some intensity!
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
Decker is recieving most of the DB's attention
So that is why he isn’t being targeted as often, and a big reason why DT is seeing more throws his way. Decker started the season so well, he is the weapon opposing defenses usually put their #1 corner on.
As for Miller, a part of it is injury, but also it’s regression and opponents game planning. At least in the Buffalo and NE game, it was clear that offensive lines, TE’s and RB’s were being sent in to chip Miller off, and because they are wasting another man on Miller, Doom is able to make plays. It is very similar to the Decker/DT situation. With opponents focusing on Decker/Miller it allows DT/Doom to make plays because the opposing team isn’t wasting resources on them.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Decker’s drops are disconcerting and are really starting to hurt Denver. I’m a little worried Tebow has lost faith in Decker the way Orton (and Tebow) lost faith in Royal.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
I agree
but I don’t think Tebow would lose “faith” in anyone so Decker is safe! Bazinga!
by MileHighPride on Dec 27, 2011 11:25 AM MST up reply actions
Not sure where you got this idea
Considering Decker has the 2nd fewest drops per target out of all our WR’s behind Matt Willis.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
His drops aren’t great in number because Denver doesn’t pass that much.
If Denver throws 20 passes and Decker has 2 drops, that’s very bad. We need to make the most of our limited attempts.
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That's why I said "drops per target"
Not total. This is a rate, meaning it can be compared to any other WR.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
He is only catching 44% of balls thrown to him...not great.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
Catch rate is one of the bad stats
Because it doesn’t separate catchable balls against ones they couldn’t catch. Drops per target is a much better stat because it measures the WR alone, that way mistakes made by the QB’s or a run first game plan won’t affect the stat.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
4 drops last weekend...the team has over 30 in the last 10 games...not awesome.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
How does one
“regress” during their rookie year? Interesting notion to say the least
Decker
was targeted a few times in the buffalo game. I remember he also had a dropped pass early in that game. He was also the open target when bryd intercepted the pass. I hope we can get the ball to him more too.
He wasnt open, hence the INT lol
..We're 8-8 till we're not!
They say the cool is all over me..
He was wide open...
Byrd read Tebow and hopped in front of the pass. Had that ball been thrown to lead Decker as opposed to making him stop and turn around for it, that would have gone a long ways. I don’t think Decker could’ve burned Byrd the length of the field, but he certainly had several feet on him.
Actually
Demaryius Thomas and Eddie Royal were wide open. DT had no one within 5 yards of him and the DB gave up on Eddie because Tebow was locked on Decker who was most definitely not open by the time Tim got through with his wind up.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
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by KaptainKirk on Dec 27, 2011 11:49 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Not to revisit a crappy situation...
…but look at 0:50 on this video. Yes, it was a great throw mechanically, but this one needed to be a bit of a floater, with some air under it, and thrown in front of Decker so he can catch it in stride. He was open, Byrd just jumped the route. Had Tebow looked off Byrd, this could’ve gone a ways.
Eddie wasn’t open – he was covered well with LB assistance. DT was running a streak on the left side, but he was covered rather well by #25 of the Bills.
Actually, you are correct, it was not Royal or DT.
The guy in the right flat was Fells. Looks to me like that was the read. Byrd either bites on Decker or Fells, who was uncovered at the time of the INT.
Watch that same video, you’ll see Fells WIDE ass open at like 0:52-0:54
..We're 8-8 till we're not!
They say the cool is all over me..
I didn't even catch that.
Thanks for pointing it out Teboner!
Yeah, hard to tell whether it was Fells or Decker, but all in all just a poor pass, and there was really no doubt which direction he was going in. Tebow has gotta get better at looking off safeties and pump faking when they have LBs spying.
Speaking of – Royal is now a veteran. Don’t just sit there when you have two guys on you, break off your route and run to the QB to give him some check down options!
For me, Von Miller's decline in production
concerns me more than Decker’s. Even with that being said, I do think that Von’s decline has been a result of his injury. It has to be tough playing with, basically, one hand.
My “excuse” for Decker is that the defense dictates where one throws the ball. If he is being doubled all game or if he isn’t open, then I am fine if my QB doesn’t throw it to him. I don’t care who gets the stats, as long as the team wins. Just look at how our production at the TE position had declined…the NFL is all about adjustments on a week-to-week basis.
"When you put on that jersey, the name on the front is more important than the name on the back." - "Miracle".
"Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else." - Vince Lombardi.
It's the dreaded "Rookie Wall" for VM, I truly believe this! Well, the torn ligament is a huge factor also
Decker is a lack of concentration! And drawing double coverage on all plays now… Ya think?
"we don't plan to fail, we fail to plan"
" character is who you are, reputation is what they say about you"
"always have character, don't be one"
NFL season is far more intense and prolonged than college.
Rookies get tired. Even Tebow looks a bit tired the last 3 games (to me, of course). Doesn’t worry me much..it is part of the growing process.
Von Miller...
From what I’ve seen Miller is still playing very well despite the cast on his hand. IMO its the job of the pass rushers to get the ball out of the QBs hand before the QB wants it out. The sack stat is just a bonus. Miller is still getting pressure on opposing QBs and influencing where they go with the ball.
Eventually teams will have success scheming against him. Once that happens he needs to make adjustments to progress to the next level. Personally, I don’t think we are at that stage yet.
The tough question
The hard question (even harder considering Miller was just named to the Pro Bowl) is would you sit him if he had no tackles and sacks by half time of the KC game and play Mario Haggan who was super effective in his last fill-in role. I believe it is a combination of getting more attention since the Jets game when Miller dominated the game and playing with the cast. I love Von Miller but is Miller with one arm better than Haggan with two. The stats the last few games say no but my heart says stick with him.
I'd be concerned if he didn't have any QB hurries...
"What's better than 5 - 0?!?...[The whole locker room] 6 - 0"!!!
Head Coach John Fox in the locker room madness following a 13-10 victory over the Bears...
Putting Haggan in the Vikes game made sense going against the rookie Ponder. Maybe not so much against the savvy Orton. He may be too slow.
The Broncos may need to lean on 9 year pro Mario Haggan if Miller is not 100% healthy or not producing early this week against Kansas City. Haggan filled in nicely for Miller earlier this season and came up huge with 7 tackles, 6 assists, and 1 interception for a touchdown. This is not a slam on the young Miller but merely a learning experience for the future All-Pro because whatever teams have uncovered in the past two weeks, have really shut down the former Texas A&M All-American.
"What's better than 5 - 0?!?...[The whole locker room] 6 - 0"!!!
Head Coach John Fox in the locker room madness following a 13-10 victory over the Bears...
Mario Haggan ALWAYS destroys the Chiefs.
Look at the game last year for evidence. Do you remember his multiple sack performance where most of us were wondering if Doom had came back and put on Haggan’s jersey?
I’m all for getting Haggan playing time against the Chiefs.
I don’t know why he and Knowshon always play so good against KC.
Follow me on Twitter: @ballinnickcast
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