Intelligence is Relative
by McGeorge on Dec 30, 2011 11:35 AM MST
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PrintFor the record, we will win this weekend. Why? Because we are better than Kansas City. That doesn’t mean I think we are a great team, Tebow is an NFL MVP candidate or that a win over the Chefs means we should make Super Bowl plans. I’ve never talked about the Super Bowl with this 2011 iteration of the Broncos because when you factor in talent, coaching, injuries, inexperience, luck, officiating and whatnot, we are presently a middle of the pack team coming directly off a season we were every bit as horrible as our 4-12 record.
The 2011 Bronco squad is team with well below average safety play. Below average (or better said) inexperienced WRs (Royal is below average, the rest = inexperienced). Tebow has obvious strengths obvious weaknesses and obvious inexperience. Our RBs stink once McGahee limps off the field and our TEs are often invisible in the passing game. We’ve got good kickers, a pretty good pass rush, a very good #1 CB, decent nickel DBs, decent LBs, decent O-line and an above average coaching staff. We start several breakeven players like Ayers, Marcus Thomas, Fells, Walton, Beadles and Goodman. In short, we are an average team in a below average division. That is the 2011 Broncos.
Tebow doesn’t make the 2011 Broncos a 13-3 team or a 4-12 team by himself. I’d rank Tim right in the middle of the 32 starting QBs on display this weekend. Right around Carson Palmer, Vick, Hasselback and Andy Dalton territory in terms of effectiveness. Tim has demonstrated significant improvement in his play over the last 10 weeks. His worst game was the one in Miami. I felt he made very little progress vs Detroit the next week. Then he was great vs the Raiders, effective in his weird role vs KC, mediocre vs the Jets, good vs the Chargers, fantastic vs the Vikings, solid vs the Bears, good against the Pats and he played poorly vs the Bills. Tim is 5-1 on the road including a road sweep of the AFC West. He hasn’t fared as well vs better teams in our four home games (2-2). Add it all together and he is 7-3; having a good season in totality (the full sample for you stats dorks). One could cherry pick the Vikings game and say Tebow is a franchisee QB or you could do the same with the Buffalo game and say Tebow sucks. Either way, you’re an idiot.
For that really full sample, Tebow played well in his near rescue of the home loss to San Diego. He also did better than expected in all three of his 2010 starts (so-so, great, good). Overall, Tim has shown abundant promise for a young QB with less than a full season of starts under his belt. He’s far ahead of QBs like Colt McCoy and Bust Gabbart. He is also ahead of Sam Bradford, whom regressed terribly in year 2 (McJedi!). Tebow is ahead of Mark Sanchize. Ponder too. Obviously Locker and Clausen as well. I’d rank Cam Newton above of Tebow and maybe put Dalton up there as well. That should murder the “McGeorge is a Tebow fan-boy” chants. I’m not going to tell you Tebow is the best young QB I’ve ever seen because he isn’t. But I’ve seen more than enough to be impressed with Tim. His ceiling remains high with significant growth already realized. Denver is winning with him under center in large part due to his play in the 4th quarter and overtime. I like QBs that perform well when the pressure is most apparent. Thus far, Tim has been far more hit than miss in such situations and that speaks highly of his present and future. It’s also why his W/L record is on the right side of .500
People are allowed to have stupid opinions. I gloss over these stupid opinions every day. Some morons believe we should just take a QB with our 2012 1st round pick. When I probe, they want Andrew Luck, Robert Griffith or Matt Barkely. At that point, I could delve into great detail about why they’re stupid, but it would be lost on them so I’m wasting less and less of my time on that pointless journey. We’ll be picking around 20th and any QB worth a 1st round pick at the 2012 draft will be gone long before we’re on the clock. Something tells me Cleveland’s two 1st round picks, Washington’s top 10 pick and high picks in other rounds, Miami ditto, KC ditto will be more coveted than our low 1st rounder, low 2nd rounder, etc. We can also explore the list of UFA QBs for next season. Should include Henne, Shawn Hill, Josh Johnson, Orton, maybe Cassel, Whitehurst, Flynn, McNabb and Del Homme. Pretty exciting right! (keep this on the DL, but Orton is the best one of that subpar collection). So whether the obtuse like it or not, Denver will have Tebow under center in 2012. I’m sure the dimwitted will whine about that endlessly, but they’ll whine regardless because that is their forte. Their core competency. Their gift to no one.
A real skeptic would approach Tebow with a strengths and weaknesses analysis that highlights the good and the bad. While I think Tebow will be a stud QB by 2013, even I did this analysis for you earlier by expressing my views on his games thus far. He’s had more good than bad, but he’s had enough bad for me to take note and to cause some concern.
This is where I get unpleasant. I know someone that is a BIG Bronco fan, but is also a hardcore atheist. He hates that Tebow is our QB and complains inconsolably about Tim's play when we lose, but it’s clear what really grinds his gears is the religion thing and probably the politics too. I mean, he still complains about Tebow even when we win??? If you guessed that he’s a fan of Bill Maher and considers himself an intellectual, you’d be correct. This person I know has a Masters degree and he is pretty smart. Many (but not all) people that fit into this box or one like it show a propensity to hate Tebow and be vocal about it. Hubris is a common trait amongst this horde. An admission of being incorrect is unacceptable so they’ll ride their theories and opinions into the ground without deviation. They are not skeptics although they’ll claim to be. They are just hateful, which they foolishly believe is masked by their perception of their own intelligence. But it’s not. Not even a little bit. And you can’t win an argument with this type of person because they are not arguing. Their mind is made up and won’t be changed. The haters don’t bother me as much as they used to. They are and will continue to be tools whether we win or lose this Sunday, whether Tebow pans out or busts. They are angry, whiny “insert your own word for effect" either way, just like a Bill Maher or a Rush Limbaugh (how’s that for fair and balanced?). I used to enjoy seeing the haters squirm after another Tebow victory, but that quickly lost impact when you ask yourself who cares how they feel be they bitter in victory or gloating in defeat.
Be excited for the game this Sunday. 2011 has been a great season with more to come. Our Broncos have improved instead of regressed for the first time in SIX seasons. Several of our young players are showing promise, some of the vets are getting a last moment in the sun, we actually have a few guys in their prime playing like it (Elvis, Bunkley, DJ and Kuper), instead of choking we’ve won a lot of close games thanks to grit, heart and leadership, the team chemistry is better, the desire is visible and the future is bright. Several years have come and gone since I’ve honestly said that last part. My fingers enjoyed typing this.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Well said McG!
I got the usual chuckle from you. Well written again.
GO BRONCOS!
I've been bleedin' orange and blue since Floyd Little in '71-'72 and will 'til the day I die!
Bring back the Orange Crush!
RANDY GRADISHAR in the HOF!!!!
And my eyes enjoyed reading it
Rec’d McGeorge
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
McGeorge
Couldn’t agree with you more
by northoftheborder on Dec 30, 2011 11:59 AM MST reply actions
Great read, and agreed
So we had a bad game. What. There's no crying in football. Dust yourselves off and keep that knee from jerking. The Broncos still control their own destiny. And I have faith in that.
Thanks for posting McGeorge!
I have never disliked a post of yours, and very rarely have I disagreed with, or disliked a comment you’ve made.
The only things I tend to ‘disagree’ with about your opinions, are along the lines of, for example – I think (more like hope… There is a huge distinction between the two hoping and expecting, but I think you get the drift) We’ll be picking right around 32… But what can I say, I’m an optimist. If I had an extra hundred bucks, I’d lay it down on this team making the Super Bowl despite all things that point to it not being a real possibility.
I feel better being an optimist who prepares for the worst case scenario, but hopes for the best, than anything the other way around. Great read, and always look forward to your two cents and rebuttals (especially to certain closed minded conveyances).
A pessimist sees the difficulties in every opportunity.
An optimist sees the opportunities in every difficulty.
- Winston Churchill
First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins (perhaps and then some)!!!! ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Dec 30, 2011 12:09 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
I’m boring. I just call it as I see it, which means I can’t be either a full time pessimist or full time optimist.
I don’t think we’ll be picking 32. Super Bowl teams don’t have massive holes in the roster like we do at both safety spots, at TE and RB depth, at MLB. Teams like the Ravens have a lot of break-even players, but few to no below average starters.
Between Beadles, Carter, Moore, Mays and our TEs, we start a lot of players that would barely get a whiff of PT on a legit SB contender. Factor in Ball, Johnson and Royal and we’ve got more key contributors that would not even make most good teams.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
Well
making the postseason covers a multitude of sins as far as I am concerned emotionally. It feels so much better to improve yourself when you’ve already won your divison
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 30, 2011 2:18 PM MST up reply actions
Boring is relative too. Heh heh...
I have to say, I think your opinion is, for the most part, close to the epitome of being objective. True objectivity is not boring when it comes to Broncos football. Many I know have never had, seen, or even had a whiff of being truly objective.
There are benefits to both, (as in my tag line) being a pessimist and seeing the difficulties – and being an optimist and seeing the opportunities. When you can do both, you definitely benefit more than just being solely one or the other. Which is why I think you excel at being objective.
So, you call it as you see it. Many claim to do that. But also, those same many don’t seem to have their eyes open, or do, but have blinders on in some fashion when claiming to do so. That’s what is most dig-worthy about hearing from you. You call it as you see it, but you tend to stay true to the definition of objectivity. And that, my Broncos brother, is a very valuable thing when it comes to evaluating Our favorite team, as fans.
A pessimist sees the difficulties in every opportunity.
An optimist sees the opportunities in every difficulty.
- Winston Churchill
First (and only, in our lifetimes) team to three consecutive SB wins (perhaps and then some)!!!! ( =
by PearlJamBroncoGFunk on Dec 30, 2011 4:09 PM MST up reply actions
Thanks man
Very nice of you to say these things. I’ll remember this post of yours as a personal favorite of mine.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
Good post McGeorge
and agreed on all points……except for the Neckbeard stuff.
Happy New Year to you and look forward to chatting with you in 2012!
"Vegetarians are cool. All I eat are vegetarians - except for the occasional mountain lion steak "
Ted Nugent
so you're not coming in to chat tomorrow?
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 30, 2011 12:59 PM MST up reply actions
Tomorrow is 2012.
Respect is not given it is earned dog gonit...and they don't respect us...nobody respects us... you know what you got to do in that situation? TAKE IT!!!!!
Follow @MHR_Troy
by Troy Hufford on Dec 31, 2011 12:04 PM MST up reply actions
Nevermind... I now realize that you posted this yesterday.
Respect is not given it is earned dog gonit...and they don't respect us...nobody respects us... you know what you got to do in that situation? TAKE IT!!!!!
Follow @MHR_Troy
by Troy Hufford on Dec 31, 2011 12:04 PM MST up reply actions
Great read McGeorge and Rec'd
It’s nice to be able to read a level headed post this week. It seems to me that the improvement this team has made is getting lost in the middle of the all things Tebow. Fans could do well to take a step back and look at the big picture. Look at where we are and look at where we were. Bena was right, we’ve been living in fear as Bronco fans, fear of success. It’s time to get that out of our heads. There is mor promise in Orange and Blue than we have seen in quite a while. It’s about time!
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Bena makes a good point about fear.
2011 is gravy. We were horrible last year and 1-4 this year. That we are even discussing the playoffs is remarkable, that I think we are going to go to the playoffs is even more so. We’ve won all of Tebow’s close games.
That said, we’ve got too many holes in our roster. I expected Tebow to have a bad game or three this year, but when that happens while our ST is having an equally bad game and our run D is worse and McCoy is calling plays designed for 3 and out? Well, then I snap back to reality and enjoy what we’ve already accomplished, which is more than I hoped for.
That we get to play a bad KC team for a playoff spot at home in week 17. Wow.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
We definitely weren't suppose to be here and that is the best thing about 2011
That we are in this position with the all those remaining holes says something about this team and it’s future. It also says something about the coaching decision made by the front office. The future is looking far brighter than our recent past. It is a great time to be a Broncos fan.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Quiefs suck Quiefs suck!
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 30, 2011 2:19 PM MST up reply actions
Be careful what you wish for:P
I think you see Orton best game yet as a Chief, especially against your secondary. I guess alot of you guys think the Chiefs are going to lay down for this game…………………will you’re wrong! The Chiefs have plenty of things to be fired up about whether they make the play-offs or not.
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This is a division rivalry game
I dont think for a second that anyone is going to lay down period. Same thing with the Raiders/Chargers. Division games even though meaningless for one team or even both teams are NEVER meaningless. I hope KO brings his “A” game and no one rolls over. because we need to the competition to push us to the next level to compete in the playoffs :)
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
Lol you posted a second before me Disturbed!
Great bronco minds think alike!
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 9:20 PM MST up reply actions
You guys don't really want this team in the Play-offs, you should be hoping for a loss.
The luck has worn off and that magical journey you guys were on ended 2 or 3 weeks ago. This Bronco team does nothing in the play-offs and deep down everyone of you guys should know it, but hey what does a Caveman know:P
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Obviously not much about Bronco fans :)
We support our team to the end. If its a bad playoff loss then so be it. But its the playoffs ::-P Seems like you are already drowning your sorrows…too much Makers Mark this eve. :-P Not like you to “troll” MHR.
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
Sorry I didn't mean for that to be taken as a insult.
That’s just straight talk with friends:P
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More sraight talk. KC will have several guys out there not playing their hardest. Like Bowe, Carr and Jones for starters. Since none of them will be back next year, best to head into UFA healthy.
KC can pump themselves up with hallow talk, but last week’s loss was damn deflating and you guys are keeping Crennel whether you win or lose. This game has very little bearing on KCs 2012 team. Orton has a ton to play for and that should scare you since he is not exactly nails when the pressure is on. See 2011.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
Just like when Bowe gator armed that last play of the Steeler game
He made a “business decision” like Deion says
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
I disagree on several points.
Alot of people point at the Steelers game as a example of Bowe sucking, but I can understand why he did it. I think he was tired of running routes for a shit QB who was going to get them killed, and a coach who continued to start that said QB. Yes it sucks when Bowe drops easy ones, but he usually makes up for it the next drive with some crazy catch. I think you’ll see a team that’s excited about having Orton and the ability to move the ball by passing……………….just a guess but I think that excites Bowe as well.
This game is not only a chance for revenge but a chance to keep a divisional rival out of the play-offs and another look at what we might need in the draft next year to stop you guys. If we win it has alot to do with which direction this team goes next year, whether it good or not.
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by CPT.Caveman on Dec 30, 2011 10:04 PM MST up reply actions
I think Bowe is crazy talented so that KC is going to let him leave in UFA tells me all I need to about his effort level. Plako was bad but even he had some decent games.
Bowe is just a moody, inconsistent player. I think that guy shows up tomorrow in his last game as a Chief. Ditto Carr.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
I think you hope that guy or guys show up.
I don’t think it’s Bowes last game as a Chief. They could Franchise tag him.
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but McGeorge
didn’t you hear that tard Tommy I’ve got my Panties in a Waddle saying that Orton has great incentive to beat us but San Diego has no incentive to beat Oakland? Some jackass on NFL Network doesn’t know anything about the AFC West, big surprise. No one wants Orton anyway and no one will ever want him, this game will only prove to be the latest exhibit as to why not
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Jan 1, 2012 9:16 AM MST up reply actions
Did you see
Oak is busy handling their FO stufff today. They could’ve done this already. Instead they do it while a playoff spot is on the line. SD will win. The players like Norv and will want him to stay if possible.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
Hmm after watching the game there's a slight chance you could be wrong:P
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Bowe did quit on you guys afterall. Thomas Jones too. Unfortunately, Carr did not and that sucked for Denver.
I’m glad you guys plan on keeping a no talent like crennel. hope you keep Orton too.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
I'm not going to argue with you about this anymore.
Think whatever you want, cause your wrong about Bowe he had a head injury and they wouldn’t let him play. Crennel said this in the post game interview he also said that Bowe wanted to come back in a he wouldn’t let him. Now whos right and who wrong? As for T.Jones like I said before he never quit he just sucks period. I’m glad you guys are keeping Tebow / Fox / and hopefully McCoy so I guess we’re even………………. No wait I think we won with our guys and you lost with your superstars.
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Us-Home playoff game.
You-Take your ball and go home.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
Good luck with that, I think we all know the outcome.
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I know you think it will be the same as yours last year.
I say, play the game.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
Steelers > Chiefs...................... just sayin'
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Digger the secrets out.
Every team in the league knows how to stop the Broncos offense now. At some point you need to run more than 10 different plays to be effective. That’s not on Tebow that’s on Fox and McCoy. The Chiefs whole game plan was to stack the box and play man coverage, so if Tebow had to throw it would be to tight coverage. They knew at some point they would make a stop on 2nd down and put you guys in a passing situation and it worked. Why your coaching staff didn’t start using a quick passing game is beyond me, slants, bubble screens and things like that would’ve work well but they did nothing. Fox and his lets pound the ball and just keep it close is killing Tebow and his progression.
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quick passing game is not in our repertoire.
However with some breaks here or there we can beat them with our 10 plays. Maybe the D or STs will score for us.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
don’t get so upset Hartman. You guys got surpremely lucky with few injuries in 2010. And an easy schedule. Didn’t get either in 2011. You’ll probably be somewhere in the middle in 2012. You will lose some key players to injuries, but it probably won’t be as many key guys as 2011. I love that Bowe and Carr are UFAs since one and maybe both will be gone. Both if you guys try to get a QB like Flynn. KC is going to get expensive now since a lot of your young players are coming off rookie deals.
Without a QB, a below average HC in Crennel, sorry O-line, I wouldn’t make super bowl plans just yet. At least you got a 4th place schedule with the Colts and Dolphins on it… haha.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
We have over 30 million in cap room.
I think we can get them signed, but you are right this team is going to get expensive I known that for awhile now. Anyways since I’m being nice I won’t list any of your teams weak spots and trust me it a long list than the Chiefs have. As far as H.Cs are concerned I wouldn’t talk to much smack on that subject either. Maybe we should just leave it at you thinking my team suck, and me thinking your team sucks.
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Not sucks. I think both our teams are average and need another monster draft or two.
If KC hires Crennel, I’ll be happy since he was such a dud in Cleveland. He strikes me as a likable loser.
Your D is pretty scary good. Your O-line and WRs behind Bowe and QB play… pretty scary bad.
And since we’ll both have a brutal schedule next season, I don’t expect some dramatic improvement from either team any time soon.
I will enjoy seeing your ownership have to put a lot of guys on expensive new contracts (Bowe, Carr, Charles, maybe even Alberts). It’s going to test your depth and ownerships commitment.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
I don't really think they suck either, but it seem like thats the type of debate I get.
I love R.Crennel as a D.C I think he’s one of the top guys in the league. I know what Crennel did at Cleveland and really it all comes down to weighing all the other options against all the changes a different H.C brings in. After watching the post game video it makes me feel alittle better about Crennel, these guys really seem to like their new H.C and he treats them like men. When it’s all said and done you may be right about him, but people can learn from past mistakes and they can improve.
Can you even name the players on our o-line or the guys that will be starting next year without looking it up? Is that a biased comment or unbiased? I can name off the top of my head the Broncos starting roster on both sides of the ball. The Chiefs o-line next year could have several different looks depending on who we draft. As of right now it looks like this for next year: B.Albert / R.Lilja / R.Hudson / J.Asamoah / B.Richardson. That scary bad o-line only aloud 1 sack over the last 3 games with a QB who can get rid of the ball quicker.
I also think your giving a biased view of the Chiefs WRs: Bowe / Breaston / Baldwin if these guys are scary bad, what would you label your guys as? Same thing could be ask about the QB position, I think we have less question marks than you guys do.
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This has gone on past it's time.
You come into the bear’s cave and expect to roll around with us and hug and squeeze us and call us pet names. News flash. You are the opponent, not a friend. We play nice for a while, but eventually you rub us wrong and we snap at you. Mc G said it right, your D is very good. Your O, with Charles, Bowe, Balwin, Moeaki, Orton/Cassel, a porous OL, does’t scare us.
Tebow might give you another miracle to hate on us for this weekend, you never know.
Go do a mock draft or something while we look forward to a home playoff game.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
by Digger24 on Jan 3, 2012 11:10 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
He does tend to forget that while I like him just fine, I hate the Chefs with all my heart and soul. they are, for me, my least favorite team. Ahead of the Dolts and Faiders (even if only by a little).
That the Chefs had something like 500 fans seek counseling after they lost at home (14-10) in the playoffs to Elway in 1998, is an all time favorite sports story for me.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
I get
going to other sites, but to act like we should kiss his ass instead him ours is ridiculous.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
it's all good.
he means well and we’ve managed to trojan horse kyle orton over there and might be able to sneak McD in, too.
I've never ask you to kiss my ass period.
Nor will I ever kiss yours, period. I just enjoy debating against other points of view if there givin’ in a unbiased way. I can get all the sugar coated B.S I want at the AP, I don’t want that.
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I just meant going to other sites
should be done in a humble tone instead of a brass kind of way.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
I wouldn'y expect you to come to my site and tuck your tail.
It’s just a sports blog where" EVERYONE" should be entitle to their opinion.
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I'm the opponent, lol.
I see you’d fit right in with most of the posters at the AP, they seem to view it that way as well. I guess I look at it in a different manner, because for years my little brother has been a Bronco, maybe I should like at it your way and fight him at every family get together because he’s my opponent, man is that comment so childish.
The don’t scare us line is such B.S , News flash for ya, this shit team with it’s shitty H.C and several of it’s best players out just beat you guys. That same shitty o-line stopped you best pass rushers as well.
Like I said before the Chiefs game, which you guys said was a easy win, Tebows luck ran out 3 weeks ago, the miracle run is over, but enjoy watching Tebow run around in circles again like he did sunday against us. Maybe Tebow will get a 25 QB rating, I guess that’s something.
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I guess that comment has very little if any attributes of a debatable statement.
See you’ve made me all biased and all. Sorry man it just seems like I don’t get any unbiased responses. Comments like the whole o-line is shitty bad is a biased response IMO.
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So should the Chiefs not have hoped for and AFC west title last year?
I dont recall you guys making a lot of noise either
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
I for one knew we weren't going any where.
I knew what the Raven were going to do to a team that looked better than they really were. The easy schedule fooled alot of Chief fans into thinking we could do something in the post season. I believe I predicted 8-8 for this year and I also said the whole division could be within 2 games of each other at the end fighting for a play-off spot.
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Stanzi going to play this weekend?
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
I doubt it:(
I would like to see him get a shot just so we’d know if he’s worth having on the roster.
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Lol as long as practice makes perfect Orton is there
you’ll likely never see him take the field. But why didnt he get a shot when Palko was playing so unbelievably bad?
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
See I think the Palko thing was Haley being a douche.
I think Haley didn’t want Orton, so he wasn’t going to pull Palko who completely sucked. It cost Haley his job IMO.
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Personally I think
Haley lost his job for his “homeless guy” look on the sidelines. How seriously can you take a guy that wears a stained hat and dirty grungy sweatshirt on the sidelines :) I think I even saw a couple pieces of corn stuck in the grizzly adams thing he had going on!
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
by Disturbed70 on Dec 30, 2011 10:07 PM MST up reply actions
The beard was for luck on the winning streak, but yeah he looked stoned half the time.
The Pats H.C does the same thing, maybe Haley was a copy cat.
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by CPT.Caveman on Dec 30, 2011 10:10 PM MST up reply actions
See McHoodie
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
Yep
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by CPT.Caveman on Dec 30, 2011 10:11 PM MST up reply actions
During that MNF game
I was waiting for the camera to catch him wandering over to the fans in the first row…. and “bumming” a hot dog or two from them.
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
by Disturbed70 on Dec 30, 2011 10:16 PM MST up reply actions
Wasnt he a 5th round pick?
If so it wont kill the team to keep him around in case KO’s bum ankle acts up again :)
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
Yeah I think he was a steal in the 5th round, and he should've been a 3rd round prospect.
I wouldn’t mind keeping Cassel around just in case. But what I really hope for is Stanzi looking good enough to start after a full pre-season of working with the team healthy.
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He played for Iowa
If that answers your question (psst….he sucks in the clutch). He is like Orton 2.0 and not in a good way.
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 10:44 PM MST up reply actions
I actually think he has some potential.
He has the size you look for, he has good pocket awareness, can throw on the run and has a pretty good arm. To be honest with a solid offensive line in front of him, I think he’s just as good a option as Orton or Cassel. The Chiefs have a good core of players, we just need to address a couple of key positions and add depth at a few more, we just need a good QB. I frankly don’t care who it is, just find him fast.
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by CPT.Caveman on Dec 30, 2011 10:51 PM MST up reply actions
He can throw ints
as good as Orton, that’s for sure.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
You're right, not many of us are thinking we go deep in the playoffs
but remember, for this team to go from 2nd worst in the NFL to AFC champs would be HUGE for the team’s morale and for the fanbase as well. So thats why none of us shouldnt want this team in the Playoffs
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
I don't think Denver/Fox will overlook a division rival
I reference the Buffalo Beatdown…I thought we would blow out Buffalo..their IR was as long as their starting roster it seemed like…Kansas City was a tough game last time, and I think it’ll be another tough game this time around too. Our secondary is beat up but I think we’ll have everyone back except Dawkins (which is a HUGE loss for us). McGahee is hurt and not running like he did against ya’ll initially. The Chiefs made an upgrade at QB….however sad that is I believe its true that Orton > Cassel or whoever that other guy is.
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 9:19 PM MST up reply actions
To be honest. I'm expecting a REALLY GOOD game that's more entertaining than the last one.
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McGahee went down early in the 1st qtr of the last game vs the Chiefs
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
and we still ran all over them. Yet another reason Dorsey and Jackson were over-drafted and remain overpaid.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
Yup and he'll be there the entire game this time (knock on wood)
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
Over drafted...................
G.Dorsey played DT in a 4-3 defense, he was projected as a DT better suited for the 4-3 scheme. The year after we picked Dorsey we switched to a 3-4 defense, and now we he’s playing out of position at DE. Dorsey is just playing in the wrong scheme to be worth the pick we gave for him and more or less were stuck with getting what we can with him at the DE position. So while he’s not living up to that high of a pick, he does a good enough job to keep. We are talking about front 3 guys in a 3-4, they aren’t ask to do to much.
Jackson was a reach, Pioli knew we needed a DE and he tried to trade down with no luck. So he reached at what was in his opinion the BAP at that spot in a year where the DE talent was lacking. The thing is that Jackson is starting to come around, infact he’s top 3 in tackles for DEs and is playing better than Dorsey. We fix the hole at NT/SILB and that in turn improves their play.
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by CPT.Caveman on Dec 30, 2011 10:29 PM MST up reply actions
Right that's why I said "initially"
I read what I wrote again and you’re right it is kind of confusing. I meant “running like he was during the first part of the game”
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 10:46 PM MST up reply actions
You're smart, I'm stupid.
No really you are. I love your stuff. It just always comes across as arrogant to me. Sorry.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
by Digger24 on Dec 30, 2011 12:57 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
I’m hoping for feisty more than arrogant.
If I put my football knowledge up against everyone at MHR, I’m a B student in a class with no curve. I can accurately tell you Rahim Moore is playing poorly, but someone else can tell you exactly why better than I can.
I’m not above shaming and pointing out the foolishness of the D and F students. In fact, I quite enjoy doing this when those students are acting up and making fools of themselves. That’s when I do my best work.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
by McGeorge on Dec 30, 2011 1:07 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I know. It's cool.
And you are at least a B student at MHR. Fiesty is a good word for you.
Here’s to EFX continuing to build the D into a powerhouse. To do this they have to be ruthless in elavuations of players no matter where they were drafted or the size of their contract. Much to the same effect as you were when calling Phonze a flop. Now I see you are already calling out Moore. IDK. All I do know is you have a good eye for the direction we must go. Our future is so bright we better wear shades.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
Moore scares me. I want really bad to like him because he is just 21. But the 2011 draft was very weak at safety. When you draft the best safety in a weak class, that doesn’t mean you should pat yourself on the back.
Moore was considering a better prospect in January than he was by the April draft day. His testing went poorly he slipped from late round 1 to 2nd or 3rd round prospect.
He still has time to turn it around and maybe his head isn’t right. Phonz was already 24 years old after his terrible rookie year. He didn’t have upside like Moore.
Hopefully the offseason gets Moore back on track, but I’m more than a little worried the scouts had him pegged right when they beat him up heading into the 2011 draft.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
I think the pat on the back
is for trading down from 36 to 46 and still getting him.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
One thing I observed about Moore...
In that preseason game against the Bills, he was flying around the field making plays. Then the HUGE hit on Jones. It seems since that play he has lost a lot of his aggression. I dont know if it affected him psychologically or if it was the coaches or just the bad press from that hit. He is a young kid and confidence is a major factor when playing safety. I know its a small sampling from just our second preseason game, but I saw a TON of potential there. And have been waiting all season to see it again. Alas I am still waiting.
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
I'n sure if he got a fine
for the hit, THAT affected him.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
I have a theory on Rahim
This isn’t an X’s and O’s theory, just a sort of gut feeling from tracking him since the first snap of his I took notes on, to his latest whiff in a Bronco’s uniform.
First off, he is a good tackler. He didn’t forget how to tackle just because he came into the NFL. Not a great tackler, but adequate for a safety who should be making his living with his range. But over the arc of his college career, he started getting some press for big hits. When I first started looking at him, I actually expected to see a big hitter, but then realized after 3 or 4 games that he was more a rangy cover guy. I also noticed a trend where backs like Bradford out of USC were winning battles against him. It was like a weird “inappropriate physicality” to his play. I ignored it and focused on his cover abilities for my notes.
Then I started to hear that the Broncos warroom was going to be very interested in grabbing him with their 2nd round pick. I moved him to the top of my safety chart and started looking for interviews, quotes, anything I could find that gave me some insight into his character. I remember lots of solid citizen stuff, and I was also impressed with how he spoke. I look in my files now and I see two notes I took from then, and I quote: “emotional; can he forget the bad plays?” and “identity crisis.”
On draft day, his emotional reaction to being drafted by the Broncos really supported my observation that he was a guy with passionate emotions. He cried when he went on stage, he cried when the Broncos were talking to him, he cried when he looked at the hat. I’m not judging him, and I would do more than cry if I ever got drafted by the Broncos, just observing that this is a guy that will let things get to him.
So I am watching all his interviews, listening to all his radio spots, and I start to pick up on a narrative. This kid has done his homework. He mentions Al Wilson and how He thinks Denver is still looking for the heart of the defense. He mentions several times his admiration for Atwater’s play in Denver, and how Denver deserves good safety play. He was on the show with Al Williams and the other guy who’s handle I can never recall, and he mentions that he has seen the Atwater hit in the SuperBowl (the 3KO) a hundred times. All very interesting and I am loving it, cause this guy REALLY wants to be a true blue Bronco.
So I am watching the preseason games, and somewhere around the time he knocks out Donald Jones I am thinking to myself, “Is this guy trying to be Atwater???” I had mixed feelings, because on the one hand, I see a big hit and I go pure fan. I’m loving it. On the other hand, I have seen him playing this physical style, and he was losing more often than he was winning….
Enter the season and after a few weeks the guy is MIA, Carter is starting. When he gets the start back I am watching him like a hawk and se him unsure, always choosing the wrong moment to go for the big hit.
I think he is trying to be something he isn’t (yet, at least), and that he won’t get his head right on this anytime soon. We know he is being coached to be aggressive, so I am afraid that he just needs an offseason to get into a good spot and learn how and when to be applying the pressure. He may have it in him to be a hard hitting guy, who is a sure stop on the backend, and rangy in coverage. Maybe he is just a cover guy, and he needs to back off and focus on smart football, and let a reputation as a ballhawk start coming to him. I don’t know. But I am almost certain that we won’t know more until after this offseason.
Perseverance, secret of all triumph.
by Jeremy Bolander on Dec 30, 2011 8:15 PM MST up reply actions 11 recs
The depth of your knowledge of this team is like an abyss. You are the A+ student of the MHR class. You’re a Rhodes scholar of the NFL
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
by McGeorge on Dec 31, 2011 8:45 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
He is something else. His takes are must reads. I dig your stuff too, good read. Your more than a B student by the way.
luckily im a bronco and a blazer fan
Yep, Styg is the man. Some great takes.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
What an incredibly detailed analysis, rec'd! More engineers should also study philosophy!
I agree, Larsen shouldn’t get any bigger. I am getting tired of his bone crushing hits knocking the pixels off my TV, once they fall to the floor they are very hard to find.
by Arctic Bronco on Dec 31, 2011 10:02 AM MST up reply actions
My pleasure to rec #5
Thanks for the study and the sharing. Gives us another way to look at his play, now.
This is a really well written analysis and evaluation.
My concern is size. At slightly over 6’ and less than 200lbs I am not sure Raheem can deliver on the physical hard-hitting side. I have no doubt he can cover and as such has rom at FS and in the nickiel and dime packages, but I think we overspent at taking him #45 in the draft.
Excellent comment styg, thanks.
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
I think you may be on to something
He may be better suited as a coverage guy who is trying to be a hard hitter, which he is not a natural fit for due to small size
I like Moore
I like what you wrote as its very insightful. That’s the beautiful thing about watching rookies such as Rahim Moore and Quincy Carter. They get to learn about themselves a bit when face with adversity. With offseason to reflect, one of those two boys will be the man at S.
Say hello to my fast...
I'd love to see both of them roaming back there for years to come
Like an Atwater-Smith pairing. But I think Moore needs to hang back , that is just my hunch. Let Carter mix it up as the SS.
Perseverance, secret of all triumph.
by Jeremy Bolander on Jan 3, 2012 12:35 AM MST up reply actions
So, what's my grade
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 30, 2011 2:19 PM MST up reply actions
It just always comes across as arrogant to me. Sorry.
what, like bill maher?? ;¬D
thanks, and gig'em.
by BringBackOrange on Dec 30, 2011 1:21 PM MST up reply actions
and yes McGeorge
Rahim Moore is doing some really retarded things, it pains me to say so but he needs a big game in my opinion if we are to muse keeping him in the fold next year, let’s make the playoffs and worry about that later!
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 30, 2011 12:59 PM MST reply actions
Our safety play is reason # 1 I’m worried about the KC game and any playoff game. Moore was comically bad vs Buffalo. Carter wasn’t much better. Bruton barely holds his own. It’s painful to watch.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
Bruton helped create two of those FG opportunities.
But only because he saved TD catches in both. I think he’s got a good head on his shoulders and enough size and athleticism to be a difference maker. I just don’t think he’s had the chance yet.
I wasn’t impressed with Bruton, but he was better than the rookies. I’d feel better with him out there than Moore.
Rahim belongs on the UCLA team right now.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
Disappointing
Considering that nasty hit he had in the preseason against Donald Jones of Buffalo. That play reminded me of the Atwater days.
"Mr. President, call in the National Guard! Send as many men as you can spare! Because we are killing the Patriots! They need emergency help!"
by bronco-Maine-iac on Dec 30, 2011 1:38 PM MST up reply actions
He is 21. If he looks this bad next season, I’ll be pissed. Right now, I just wish we could bench him because he is hurting us out there. But with injuries, I might have to sit through another game of missed tackles and bad angles. And when the heck is he going to make a play on the ball?
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
I posted above before I saw this.
It seems to me he has lost a lot of confidence since that hit. In that game he was flying around making plays, and showed a lot of potential. After that hit, not so much.
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
you mean the UCLA meat squad
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 30, 2011 2:20 PM MST up reply actions
I thought bruton had a decent game considering the circumstances...
remember how moore was so touted as a “ball hawk” ???…. dude hasn’t hawked s***.
tho he did take out a buffalo receiver preseason as well as took himself out on the first play of some other game…
thanks, and gig'em.
by BringBackOrange on Dec 30, 2011 1:26 PM MST up reply actions
And took out some dude long after the play was over.
1st down instead of 4th.
Yeah I'd be worried too.
Between the 20’s we’re going to kick your butts:P
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Hahahaha
The legend of Kyle “The Fieldgoal Opportunist” Orton precedes him I see. If you are down by 2 in the 4th quarter and have the ball with 2 minutes left the game is ove….oh wait….kyle fumbled. We win! :-P
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 9:21 PM MST up reply actions
Hahahahaha, stop it you're killin' me........................................no really STOP IT! :p
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You just need to hope that
the KO that would rather settle for FG’s shows up and not the the one who forces bad throws into the End Zone for INTs. :)
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
FGs will be good
Succop just signed a 5 year 14 million dollar deal, so IMO he better frickin win the game.
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The guy that picked the final score 21-12 Denver had it best. Orton leads four FG drives while Tebow leads 3 TD drives.
I’m almost tempted to pick 14-12 Denver as my final score since your D is pretty good and Orton hates the red zone. Two TDs for Denver vs four FGs for Orton. That would be so funny. and yet predictable.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
I'm thinking the Chiefs score like 24 or 27 points.
Actually I let Madden play the ball a the final score was 17- 10 Chiefs
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by CPT.Caveman on Dec 30, 2011 10:33 PM MST up reply actions
I let Madden simulate the ball game and the final score was 17-10, geez.
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by CPT.Caveman on Dec 30, 2011 10:35 PM MST up reply actions
That would be me picking 21-12....and I stick by it! :P
W-L record doesn't matter to me.... I just want to see a team on the rise at the end of the year!
Trying not to....cant control my fingers......BAH
I wonder how much he had to “suck up” to get that contract! . And would anyone still kiss him if he wins this game, after all that “sucking up” :)
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
by Disturbed70 on Dec 30, 2011 10:00 PM MST up reply actions
LOL I know what a name huh:P
I hate the move, hell Succop has a hard time with anything over 40 yards, because he kicks so low due to lack of leg strength:(
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by CPT.Caveman on Dec 30, 2011 10:08 PM MST up reply actions
I'm as 'excited' as dog quivering trying to pass a peach seed...
Win, lose or draw, we are the Denver Broncos! 13-3 Baby!!! Until we ain't!
Great post McGeorge
I’m a hardcore Atheist, and I love what Tebow has brought to the Broncos. If he keeps winning, I’ll keep rooting for him.
Winning is the bottom line.
Atheist for Tim Tebow!
I wish you weren't. but that is for you to decide. Fandom has no boundries or religous restraints, only faith in a common bond with eachother...
Win, lose or draw, we are the Denver Broncos! 13-3 Baby!!! Until we ain't!
It seems to be some toxic combo of atheist, intelligentsia and progressive that brings out the stupid in certain people when it comes to Tebow. But certainly not all. I’m not broad stroking anything. Lots of smart people, non religious people and progressive people can take an unbiased view on Tebow if they don’t let their arrogance get in the way. I’d like to think of two of these three things.
I saw Jews for Tebow sign at the Dolphin game. That one had me rolling.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
Yeah but my Atheist Dad and Father-in-Law
are some of the people rooting for him to fail to they don’t have to hear about him anymore. It’s sad really. The Broncos have been in crappy purgatory, and here comes Tebow and we start winning games and talking playoffs. I don’t want it to end.
Atheist for Tim Tebow!
Spencer Larsen and I are Mormons for Tebow!
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 30, 2011 2:08 PM MST up reply actions
I just a guy
who’s for the starting Bronco QB. Yes, even when it was Orton and I was certain he would fail.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
I would be for Orton
but he had his chance and he will confirm we made the right choice once he makes a fool of himself Sunday
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 30, 2011 2:21 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah
what I meant by that was I tried real hardto be a fan of Orton just because he was our starting QB at the time. Not because I thought he was any good. It pained me cheering for them when he was here. Much to the effect it pains the haters while Tebow is at the helm.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
that is fair
so long as we are all Broncos fans, that’s all I can ask! 
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 30, 2011 4:12 PM MST up reply actions
Enjoyed the post. I’m also starting not to be bothered much by people like Maher. I think its reflecting negatively on him as it shines a light on his actual motives behind his attacks, which is always a plus whenever dealing with narrow minded people. There’s nothing like acting the bigot to take away the ‘Better than you’ & ‘Progressive’ shield he & his buddies carry around.
Back to the Broncos, we do have many holes & that’s a concern. At this point, I’m pleased that we’re building a good foundation for future years. I’d like to send this year off by making the playoffs and being very competitive against whoever we face in the 1st game.
We’ve had a big youth injection the past few years. On Offense we’ve brought on Tebow, D. Thomas, Decker, Clady, O. Franklin, Walton along with some projects like Julius Thomas, Willis, Beadles, and a few practice squad receivers in Dell & Goodwin.
On Defense we’ve brought on Miller, Chris Harris, Ayers, Quincy Carter, Moore, Sydquan Thompson, C. Vaughn & Nate Irving. Also, lets not forget Colquitt and Traitor, I mean, Prater.
All these guys have come on board in the past 3-4 years. Some havent shown us anything yet. Someone like Nate Irving will need to show up. I do remember players such as Trevor Pryce & Al Wilson not playing much in their first year who went on to be difference makers for us. Not all of them will be superstars but i think a couple more drafts like these, plus the further development of the players i mentioned, will go a long way into making us contender for years to come.
Not all will be studs
As I see it, if we win every game.....then we should win the super bowl
I’m down the middle in terms of politics. I’d vote for Ron Paul above anyone in this 2012 cycle. Would vote for Obama before I’d vote for most of the Republicans currently running (save Huntsmen).
But I hate the folks on both edges of the political spectrum and for some reason, Tebow brings these people out in droves. Then they fight with each other like they do in politics. Loud, proud and stupid.
And yes, the people on the far left that carry around their “I’m educated and progressive and enlightened” shield are just as worthless as the far right wakados.
Why they get all fired up over Tebow is bizarre. It’s an election year. Go after Newt.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
Ahhhhh!
We actually do totally agree on something! Interesting. I feel Paul has the most credibility for integrity, but feel he would be crushed by the system, and he has a few issues on which I just can’t agree with him. Nonetheless, I find him less objectionable than anybody else in with either party. Totally weird for a conservative leaning (but still middle of the road) guy like me.
I’m a Ron Paul guy as well. I already decided that if Paul doesn’t win the Republican nomination then i won’t vote for anyone else. The current system is corrupt and it’s no good for me to vote so it would continue on like this. END THE FED. :-)
As I see it, if we win every game.....then we should win the super bowl
If people want real change. real change. vote for Paul.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
by McGeorge on Dec 31, 2011 8:46 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not American so it doesn't matter all that much to me
but I’ve liked Ron Paul since 2008. Unfortunately as you well know, it doesn’t matter who gets voted in there won’t be change. Sure you’ll see a few inconsequential policy shifts. But you won’t see anything change that truly matters. The people who really run the show started this freight train a long time ago and there ain’t no stopping it now.
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
by T.Dot_Bronco on Dec 31, 2011 3:15 PM MST up reply actions
Where you from man?
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
I don't know if Ron Paul should be president, but future presidents should take a ton of what he says seriously
Drinkin the kool-aid, smokin the Orange Kush
I'm sure Stephen Harper
is a great prime minister in Ottawa, I heard him on a CBC interview once online, sounds like a nice man
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Jan 1, 2012 9:18 AM MST up reply actions
I don't know what he is
it always seems to be the same up here…to be truthful our PM’s tend to do what they’re told by the President so in a way it’s your elections are probably as important here as our own.
Excuse me, do these effectively hide my thunder?
Ron Paul as first choice followed by Obama second choice
Ridiculous. The only thing those two have in common are the associated cults of personality.
Ps-I love your football related posts, your time ignoring politics is obviously well spent on all things Bronco.
by TheMascotArmy on Jan 1, 2012 2:31 AM MST up reply actions
I said Huntsman second. After that, the GOP is putting up clowns as candidates. I can’t vote for a clown.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
Obama's a clown too, with a piss poor track record, whose
ideology conflicts in every way with Paul. If you don’t like the repub nominee, it makes more sense to stay home or write somebody in than vote for Obama.
Just sayin’
by TheMascotArmy on Jan 2, 2012 3:55 AM MST up reply actions
Nah. I’d take experience over that cast of dim wits and moral scumbags. I’ll likely vote for Paul unless he is not on the ballot.
Romney may change my mind at some point. The fact that he ran Bain is damn impressive.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
Obama's experience
Kinda like preferring Orton to Tebow. ; )
by TheMascotArmy on Jan 2, 2012 2:43 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah
IMO anyone that voted for Obama should be taken out and shot, and if your dumb enough to vote again the whole damn bloodline should be taken out.
Warning: If you're reading this it has been censored.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
Yeah, but then like 3/4 of the U.S. would be gone
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
You're an idiot if that's what you believe...
And you should have no right to vote or shoot guns !
by anotherNYCbroncofan on Jan 3, 2012 4:40 AM MST up reply actions
He’s just Midwestern with Midwestern values.
The GOP field in 2012 is like the 2009 NFL draft. It is just a lousy crop. Not good at the top and no depth either.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
Our country is going to shit, no morales, no respect for their alders by the youth.
Everyone thinks live is like Jersey shore. People need to wake up!
Warning: If you're reading this it has been censored.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
If you think Obama is a good president whos the IDIOT?
I honestly don’t trust any of them, they’ve all been had or will be when they take so called donations to run for office.
Warning: If you're reading this it has been censored.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
I never said Obama was a good president...
although so far it appears that he’s at least slightly better than the last one. I’ve got a lot of problems with all of them and feel that the system is currently broken….but what you said was that people who voted for him should be shot. That is an idiotic statement and completely baseless. In fact, I would say that the attitude you expressed is one of the real problems with our political system… One of the major reasons our system is so screwed up is that politicians – and now many voters – only care about winning, and forget that the real objective is to govern well and wisely in a way that is cooperative and inclusive. That is not possible in a system where attitudes like the one you expressed are prevalent. I normally find your posts to be objective and honest, and I even respect your overall even-handedness when you come to visit MHR, but this post was beyond the pale….and very anti-democratic. I stand by my original statement.
by anotherNYCbroncofan on Jan 4, 2012 7:09 AM MST up reply actions
My problems with Obama are too deep to discus here, so I'll leave it at that.
Warning: If you're reading this it has been censored.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
More like orton to Plano
No tebow in the GOP field if you take out Paul and huntsman
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
Why did you call Prater that?
He didn’t deserve it
Note to self:
Please make sure to proof-read anything and everything before posting.
Example: Ending the post with a short sentence like “Not all will be studs”
:-)))
As I see it, if we win every game.....then we should win the super bowl
You just need ......
at the end.
:)
Not all will be studs…….
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
ugh
you made a lot of good points until the second-last paragraph, which is every bit as dumb as saying that someone only supports tebow because they are a devout christian.
by Rainbow skyline on Dec 30, 2011 1:58 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
How is that dumb?
The friend he speaks of likes the Broncos yet hates Tebow because he is Christian. How absurd is that? Sometimes the folks that preach fairness and equality louder than others when it comes to religion have an axe to grind and nothing more.
I’m a Christian myself and have been called many things by atheists and have had my beliefs belittled all by people who claim to know better and have a higher concept of understanding than I do. To me, that is dumb, just as dumb as people hating Tim because he’s not afraid to let people know that he’s a Christian.
"ugh".....He did not say "only"
He was talking about a single individual he knows, although with the belief there are others out there….not all, but others. To ignore their presence would be dumb.
That 2nd to last paragraph was the most important part and my favorite to write.
I never said anyone only supports Tebow because of Christian faith. Although I’m sure some do.
I’m calling out the tools that hate on Tebow because they can’t get over their own religious views or politics. That they carry deep contempt for Tebow, but try to disguise it as football analysis. See Damon below. He is one of those I was talking about. Very biased pretending he is not. Trying, but failing to sound smarter than he is. Poor damon dove headfirst into my trap.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
by McGeorge on Dec 31, 2011 8:50 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Just think...if we were on the other side of the coin and rooted for another AFC West team!
Take for instance the San Diego Chargers, the ‘darlings’ of the mainstream media and their automatic penciling in every year as Superbowl contenders. On paper they might have something, but deep down in the cataclysm of the Chargers brain trust there are issues way beyond what a team could or can accomplish on the field. Head coach Norv Turner must rub his chin in amusement and ask himself over and over why the owner would keep such a clown as AJ Smith on the payroll? Can’t hardly totally blame ‘ol Norv for all of the dumb transactions that go on behind him, but he will take the brunt of their failures just like any other head coach. Along with looking for a new head coach the Chargers will have 19 free agents to deal with and that’s not just a hand full. Good luck with that…
The tRaider’s mentor and owner past away this year and they try with all of their hearts to just…“Win Baby”! But they have struggled with that too. The fans will miss ‘ol crypt-keeper slurring his words and fumbling over decisions and firing head coaches over the phine. What’s tough this year is they have very few draft picks to get the speedy players they were so accustom to getting every draft. That may change now with somebody that actually is intune with the changing times of the NFL. I still can’t figure out how former head coach Tom Cables pissed off the boss, maybe it was the assault lawsuit pending somewhere in the air. Now imo the tRaiders are way over their head with new head coach Hue Jackson, and they’ll see why pretty soon. The future doesn’t look bright for a team that gives away so much in oorder to gain so little…
Firing Todd Haley came an offseason to late imo, the Kansas City Chiefs brain trust knew what he gave them from the last two years, there was nothing new there with “Handshake” Haley. I mean when a new head coach has to bring his dad in to give his players a pep-talk, what does that tell you? It tell you you have an idiot running your team, one that tries to destroy any player morale there was (“I could get 20 guys off the street who could play better than you guy did”!) and run the club like a Drill Sargent’s bootcamp. Now they have an interim head coach in Romeo Crennel who has failed at the higher office ever since he was one. Sure their talk of keeping him on board as the head coach and bringing in the head-strung young “whippem-into-place” Josh McDaniels. Isn’t Scott Pioli smarter than that? I have to give them one thing though, they’ve had a couple of solid drafts since the debacle of reaching for DE Tyson Jackson. Oh yah, we do hear a little about him now that he is in his 3rd season. But, when a team loses 4 starters to the IR and play nowhere like they did the last season then something is terribly wrong. I hope they haven’t found the map to correct it just yet…
So, with all of that said, and that only scatches the surface of why you don’t want to be a fan of one of our enemies, does this make you feel better about the team you love? Tell me the truth, because I don’t want to hear you ever whine again…
Win, lose or draw, we are the Denver Broncos! 13-3 Baby!!! Until we ain't!
by bfree2bronc on Dec 30, 2011 2:44 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Ha ha
it did it again. Make that a Rec instead of a flag free.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
I think after we "rec" something, the word "Rec" disappears, and it just slooks like we "flag"ed it.
It has had me typing apologies before also, but I don’t think it ever actually flagged somebody.
Actually, I'm rooting for the Chargers this weekend! LOL
If Norv gets fired (though I think they should nuke Smith instead), maybe he could come to the Broncos as OC and replace McCoy.
Say what you want about Norv as a head coach, but I think he’s a great Offensive Coordinator.
Norv would be AWESOME as OC.....no sarcasm for once!
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
yes he would and to answer bill2669; The jury is still out on Smith. The guy imo is a blooming idiot on the Joe Ellis level...
Win, lose or draw, we are the Denver Broncos! 13-3 Baby!!! Until we ain't!
Yes
Norv is the Wade Phillips of offensive coordinators, if that makes any sense
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Jan 1, 2012 9:19 AM MST up reply actions
I spent some time
reading Bolts from the Blue, Just to get a feel of where they are in terms of support for their team. The BFTB already have Norv packing his bags before the alarm clock sounds on Monday morning. And have posts about actually rooting for the Raiders LMAO. I was in disbelief. How could someone call themselves a fan yet root against their team? But then I remembered it was SD, they cant even sell out games when they are leading the division,
As far as the AFC West …we could potentially be in contention for another run of division titles to rival the Elway era. All the other teams will be in such disarray it could take them a while to sort out the mess. I believe for the next three to five years it will be the Broncos and the Chefs fighting for the division title. Depending on a few factors of course, SD keeping AJ and who the Chefs actually hire for HC. The Broncos are heading in the right direction now and I cant wait to see how good they are 3-4 years from now, when all of their young talent reaches their “prime”. Lets hope it takes the other teams just that long to dig out of their respective holes. We could actually go on a Colts type of domination in our division.
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
this may be evidence
that the Los Angeles Chargers are going to recur for the first time since the early 60s
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Jan 1, 2012 9:20 AM MST up reply actions
(Sigh of relief)
Finally some one said it like it is. Nothing but good news coming up!
It is better to keep silent, and appear to be wise, then to ramble on aimlessly and remove all doubt! The Wisest Man, Solomon.
Really????
So Tim Tebow is better then Mark Sanchez, Bradford and McCoy as well as Ponder??? Really:
He is 34th in passing yards per game.
25th in yards per attempt
24th in passer rating
34th in completion pct
31st in QBR
36th in DVOA
Wins is a team statistic and it makes zero since to say player A is better then player B based on wins.
I guess in 2008 Kerry Collins was a better QB then Brady, Manning and Brees. Or maybe the Titans had a great running game and the top 5 defense that allowed him to manange the game.
Tim Tebow is a work in progress. You are right, we will not be drafting a QB next season. But to say Tebow is better then Sanchez a guy that has had alot of success and played well in some big games shows a serious lack of football intelligence and homerism
Stats don't tell the whole story...
If you read just the stats you will never under the book!
by MileHighPride on Dec 30, 2011 3:18 PM MST up reply actions
Week 11
Broncos have Sanchez at QB. Jets have Tebow at QB. Do Broncos still win?
Just hypothetical. I’d agree if you didn’t say it mattered as to who is the better QB.
For the record, I do think stats do a good job of telling us how good a player is and wins tell us how good a team is.
We're gonna get together as a team and make some things happen this year.
In the Jets game...
The Broncos defense scored a defensive TD in a game we scored 10 total points on offense.
The DEF gave up 13 points. had 3 sacks and recovered a fumble. Tebow played horrible with the exception of the final drive. we were 3-13 on 3rd down if you rememeber.
Any QB in the NFL can win a game where they only need to score 10 points win.
So, I guess your answer is YES
Ok, fair enough. I’d argue that Sanchez doesn’t make that final drive. No one knows for sure, but I think that Broncos lose that game. I also think that I’d rather have Tebow than Sanchez now and in the longterm, statistics aside.
I appreciate your point of view, though, Damon.
We're gonna get together as a team and make some things happen this year.
Time will tell.
Im not a big Sanchez guy, but he has played the QB position at a higher level then Tebow. He has 2 trips to the AFC title game and he has played well, especially in the playoffs. Tebow may be better someday, Right now you would be hard pressed to find any measure of a QB that Tebow is superior to Sanchez in.
AFC Championship Game
I think that’s the best argument for Sanchez. I can’t argue with that fact. Lesser QBs would have screwed it up before the AFC title game, so give him credit because he’s played well enough.
Tebow, to me, has a higher ceiling than Sanchez. He will be a more dynamic football player and QB. A more dangerous threat to defenses. Hey, I’m just prognosticating, so, like you said: Time will tell.
Sanchez vs Tebow aside, I think the statement is spot-on that Tebow is ahead of the likes of McCoy, Gabbert, and Ponder. I believe Tebow will reach a higher potential and will reach full-potential faster.
We're gonna get together as a team and make some things happen this year.
OK lets compare
Ponder 54% cmp 1825 yds 13 TDs 12 INTs
Gabbert 50.5 % Cmp 2122 yds 11 tds/ 11 ints
McCoy 57% comp 2733 yds 14 TDs/ 11 INTs
Tebow 48% comp 1669 12 TDs/ 5 INTs
I think all are bottom 25 QBS but to 2 QBs are rookies and McCoy and Tebow are pretty close. All have potential and have played well/ poorly at times. I hope Tim does make a massive jump next season as a passer and QB.
Mark Sanchez
First time he rode a top 5 def and the number one rated running game to the AFC west title game, and showed he didnt have the stones to get to the SB. The second year they still had a top 5 def and a top 5 running game. This year they have lost a few steps on their D and their running game has failed. Time and time again this season Sanchez has ’shown" just how over rated he is :)
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
oops should say AFC title game
not AFC west title game :)
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
AFC west title game is
this Sunday at Mile High! GO BRONCOS!
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
by Disturbed70 on Dec 30, 2011 8:49 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry, yes they do
Just because I speak with authority doesn't mean I actually know what I'm talking about.
You're entitled to your opinion
But I"m allowed to call it obtuse. :-) As Charles Barkley said “I could be wrong…but I doubt it.” There is so much more to this game than stats. Why else can’t an Excel spreadsheet predict every game? Why can’t Madden sim every matchup with 100% accuracy? I mean if what you’re saying is honestly the case then wow…lets scrap the postseason all together and just give the Lombardi trophy to the team with the better stat sheet. Phillip Rivers would have like…2 SB trophies by now. Thankfully we live in a world where WINNING matters. It’s a stat…so we kind of agree on that point I guess.
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 7:21 PM MST up reply actions
Whoops
Meant for the post by Damon above haha :-)
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 8:19 PM MST up reply actions
In terms of progressions yes...Really!
Win, lose or draw, we are the Denver Broncos! 13-3 Baby!!! Until we ain't!
Homerism on a Broncos Blog?
Say it ain’t so!
I didn’t see any stats that factor in what Tebow does running the ball. Those stats are part of the picture too. If we are going to compare, lets compare the whole picture.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Promise
Plus, I think McG’s argument was that Tebow shows more promise than those QBs. I think he shows more promise because of QB qualities other than passing acumen. It’s a statement that shouldn’t be argued against with stats about yards-per-attempt, QBR, or fantasy-football-points-per-game.
We're gonna get together as a team and make some things happen this year.
I guess...
So what should he be judged on??? Should I judge a QB on rushing accumen? He is a QB at the end of the day. Sam Bradford is a ROY, who passed for 3500 yards last season, he 2100 plus this season in 10 games. Sanchez has 2 season with 3200 yards passing and 17 TDs, he has 9 TDs and 3 INTs in the playoffs. How has Tebow shown more promise? Tebow has alot of growing to do as a QB.
How about overall production?
Rushing yardage and touchdowns count in the games, so they should also count when comparing Tebow to other QBs. It doesn’t matter if a TD is scored passing or running, it still counts as six for your team. And yes, even winning percentage should factor in because it really is the most important stat. Tebow is a factor in the outcome of any game that he plays, win or lose. Stats are hollow unless they are preceded by a W in the win/loss column. We should have become used to that with Orton under center.
Promise is very hard to quantify with stats. You have to rely on the eye test there and that will always be biased. Yes, Tebow has shown great promise in the fact that he helped a team that started 1-4 to be in a position to finish no worse than .500. A case could be made that he did this with far less talent surrounding him than Mark Sanchez has around him. He has definitely showed more promise as a starter than Orton did and that is precisely why we are where we are at today.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
What about it.
Running QB tend to get running TDs… non- running dont. its much easier to use points per game then raw numbers to be honest. And as far as winning pct thats illogical to evalute player vs player using a metric that has as much to do with the other players as it does the QB. For example.
Under Orton the offense scored 20.25 points per game
Under Tebow the offense has scored 18 points a game
In the first 5 games the Defense gave up 28 points per game
In Tebows 7 wins the defense gave up 16.7 points per game
Now maybe you believe scoring fewer points sparked the win streak but I think you can clearly see that when Tebow wins, the Defense plays a huge role in it.
"Under Orton the Broncos are losers"!
Under Tebow the team finds ways to win…Its the ending stat that matters the most not stats.
Win, lose or draw, we are the Denver Broncos! 13-3 Baby!!! Until we ain't!
Yes and VY is a better QB then Aaron Rodgers, Stafford, Vick and Drew Brees
.. Because his end stat win pct is better then theres… Worse take ever
don't you think that sample size
is just a little skewed?
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 31, 2011 1:20 PM MST up reply actions
Ironically, QB play also plays a huge role in W/L
My point here is you cannot paint the entire picture when you ommit the stats that don’t support your view. When you hammer away at deficiencies and fail to acknowledge strengths, you cannot call that objective. Win/Loss % is part of the stat line for every QB, it is a part of the whole picture. All I ask if you are truly being objective, use all of the stats to make your case, don’t cherry pick to paint the picture you want. We all know Tebow has some work to do, we get it. He also has a great deal of upside. He is not a typical QB, and to evaluate him like one will not work. You have to look at the rushing stats with the passing stats to paint the whole picture. To ommit those stats, you are ignoring a major contribution to his game. When you keep on it the way you have here, it is apparent that you have an agenda and are not being objective at all.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Football is a team sport
Yes, the defense contributed to the win streak. Where do you draw the line though? Receiver play affects completion percentage. Line play affects every aspect of the game. Where do we draw the line? The answer is, we don’t draw a line. We use all available data to draw a conclusion if we truly want to be objective!
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Difference in QB style/ Offensive playcalling? Perhaps?
“When Tebow wins”…this is kind of your dillema in a nutshell. It should say “When the BRONCOS win.” This will never make sense to you as long as you look at the situation the way you are looking at it now. You are trying to simplify something that is way more complicated than you are making it sound. This is why stats don’t honestly mean that much…you have to include SO many stats to be truely objective otherwise you can bend them to support whatever you want (see above).
Consider this, Bronco’s average TOP with Orton through 4 games this year was 28:22. I threw out the SD game after that b/c both quarterbacks played. Since Tebow started after that game, average TOP has been 31:24. That keeps your defense off the field and rested. Three minutes may not sound like a lot, but 31:24 would rank us 9th in the NFL with some pretty big names in front of us like Pittsburg, New Orleans, San Francisco, and Houston. You can do things with Tebow that allow your other players to be more effective when it is their time to shine. That’s my 2 cents.
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 7:58 PM MST up reply actions
I was going to put in the turnover stats too...
but that post was already wicked long haha. You make a great point though and I wholeheartedly agree.
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 8:27 PM MST up reply actions
Onside kicks recovered
Lol
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 8:32 PM MST up reply actions
ZING
Hahaha that was a good one digg. Speaking of Luck, this week kind of decides who would get that pick doesn’t it? Wow the year FLEW!
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 8:48 PM MST up reply actions
Nice!
You’re a Hawkeye’s fan too I see? You going to be watching that bowl game? One of my work peers took off from here (Des Moines) to go down to the game in AZ. Not a fan of the Hawks but I AM a fan of the weather down there haha. Should be a good game…or at least better than ISU v Rutgers today…poor guys couldn’t get a call any which way they turned.
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 9:14 PM MST up reply actions
My daughter lives in Des Moines.
We could quite get it. I didn’t figure we would. I’m not a die-hard Hawk fan like I am the Broncos.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
I think Tebow would tell you...
(In response to “So what should he be judged on??? Should I judge a QB on rushing accumen? He is a QB at the end of the day.”)
That he signed up to win games. Did you miss that interview? Even Shannon Sharpe didn’t really have an answer for that…do you?
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 8:04 PM MST up reply actions
And your posts, as normal Damon, reek of hating on Tebow any time you can. forgive me if I cant take anything you say seriously when you have such a bad bias.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
by boydy2669 on Dec 30, 2011 4:21 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes clearly my opinion has no merit and all these stats from ESPN and NFL.com are fabricated to make Tebow look bad.
You are the guy with the man crush on Tebow, I am simply giving an honest evaluation of our QB. I dont know Tim tebow to hate him. i think we need a CB to go opposite Champ, does that mean I hate Goodman? If you dont have a football argument then ignore my post
Bull shit Damon. Thats all I ahve to say. You bring the same crap every time you post. ANd me, i see upside in a young Qb with a record of 7-3.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
You have never posted about CB's. safetys or any other position.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
Sure I have... But as is the case on MHR the QB position dominates the conversation
and thats why we keep bumping heads
I never said he didnt have any upside....
I simply pointed out that if you evaluate him based on his TOTAL performance as QB then you see MANY areas for improvement. If any of the stats I point to are wrong or misrepresented, please correct me. But if you have no other argument then he is 7-3 then I already addressed that argument. and will respectfully disagree.
Okay Damon here's a comparison you might enjoy
Cam Newton is a rookie QB that everyone pretty much has agreed has had a great season. Here are his stats (taking into account his rushing numbers as well)
Cam
612 touches, 34 total TD, 18 total turnovers——that means he scores or throws for a TD every 18 touches, and turns the ball over every 34 touches.
So far Tim has 29 total TD, 13 total turnovers in 490 touches—-that means he he scores or throws for a TD every 17 touches, and turns the ball over every 38 touches.
Now projecting Tebow out to as many touches as Cam, here is the comparison:
Cam: 612, 34TD, 18 turnovers, TD every 18 touches, turnover every 34 touches
Tebow: 612, 36TD, 16 turnovers, TD every 17 touches, turnover every 38 touches
Going further, Cam has accounted for 4567 cumulative yards in 612 touches for a 7.46 yards per touch average
Tebow has accounted for 3194 yards in 490 touches for a 6.52 yards per touch average. Projecting Tim out to Cam’s touches put him at 3989 yards. Cam has the advantage here with a yard more production per touch and would outgain Tebow by 500 more yards.
Tebow has the advantage in TD frequency per touch, and less turnovers per touch. Putting the entire picture together, here it is:
Cam: 612 touches, 4567 yards, 34 TD, 18 Turnovers
Tebow: 612 touches, 3989 yards, 36 TD, 16 Turnovers
Perhaps Tebow’s numbers and averages in TD/turnover frequency should be given more attention than output in limited touches.
Ahh the old lets extrapolate trick
Will we account for the 1 yard TDs that Tebow racked up while Orton was leading the team? So lets subtract 6 TDs since CAM didnt have the luxury of coming in on the 1 yard line for a 5th of his TD’s
Why should we
After all the point of football is to use your personnel in ways that will optimize scoring potential correct? Tebow wasn’t starting last year, he wasn’t given the same opportunity as Cam, he was utilized in ways to help his team put points on the board in the redzone, and did exactly that. He shouldn’t be docked or punished for that.
Look there it is in black and white, accept it or don’t, doesn’t really bother me. Even if you don’t extrapolate, the fact remains that Tim scores more often and turns the ball over less often than a guy who’s being pretty much universally praised for his accomplishments.
You give partial stats about a an offense scoring points, or defense giving up less points when in fact you have to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe this Tebow guy does inspire something more from his teammates.
I’m not hiding anything in my analysis—-touches are what we have to judge players buy. In the end, how many does it take for a guy to put up points for his team, how many does it take before he turns it over? Real cut and dry. I
I’m not apologizing for Tebow’s redzone TD’s and neither should he. In the end, he was helping his team and you should be happy with that.
by Bronco Mike on Dec 30, 2011 6:40 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
And Orton leading the team?
I seem to remember one of the reasons Tim was used was because we had a hard time converting TD’s in the redzone….partially due to Orton’s “leadership.”
And actually, You're wrong
Tebow had 4 total touchdowns before his first start against the Raiders in 2010, a rushing TD against the Jets, a rushing TD against the 49ers, and a rushing and passing TD against the Chiefs. I’ll bite and do this again because you are being selective in what you are choosing to look at. No worries, I can play your little game. Let’s re-examine those lines NOT counting Tim’s 4 RZ TD’s in 2010.
486 touches, 3188 YDS, 25 total TD’s, 13 turnovers, A TD every 19 touches, a turnover every 37 touches
Uh oh, here we go, I’m going to extrapolate, you might not want give these numbers any credit because averages are BS and don’t take into account consistent production cough
Cam: 612 touches, 4567 yards, 7.46 yards per touch, 36 TD, 18 turnovers
Tim: 612 touches, 4015 yards, 6.56 yards per touch, 32 TD, 17 turnovers
I don’t know about you Damon, but that still seems pretty darn close to me. Still seems pretty unfair to me that one is considered a success and the other can’t get more respect, even from fans of his own team.
Is there anything else you would like me to omit from Tebow’s body of work Damon, how about his TD’s from the Minnesota game, I mean those receivers were wide open right? Anyone could have completed those passes, so maybe they shouldn’t count as well? Maybe we can take away his TD run against the Jets, I mean their safety broke contain and “let him score”. He’s even run for a few TD’s in the redzone as a starter this season, should we get rid of those, I mean anyone can score from the 1 yardline!
by Bronco Mike on Dec 30, 2011 7:25 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
One thing you left out
was his 2 point conversions :) Just to be realistic and include “ALL” of his point scoring. :)
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
lol, no let's not include those
After all they came from the 2 yard line, wouldn’t be fair to all other QB’s ;)
as a statistician, I can tell you
2-point conversions are just counted as PAT’s, just a different form of the kick, they don’t appear on stats sheets or enhance statistical profiles in any way
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 30, 2011 11:33 PM MST up reply actions
2 points on the score board.
those 2 point conversions were just as important as the 6 points that preceded them. I am not a “stats” guy, and I loathe fantasy football. I am a bottom line type of guy. At the end of the game who has the most points. I could care less “how” they get there. There is no such thing as an ugly win :)
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
by Disturbed70 on Dec 30, 2011 11:43 PM MST up reply actions
I agree with you
wholeheartedly, I’m only saying they have no statistical relevance, thus bolstering the argument that stats are worthless
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 31, 2011 10:58 AM MST up reply actions
And have a better place in baseball
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
if there is one important football stat
with which to evaluate Tebow it is passing yards per attempt, when he does throw the ball, I want to ensure he’s being productive
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 31, 2011 1:02 PM MST up reply actions
Good point
Yards per attempt takes out the variables that aren’t under his control. His completion percentage is adversely affected by low number of attempts and drops. QBR doesn’t account for his rushing ability. You can’t truly measure his impact through normal QB metrics and it amazes me that people still try.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
It can't be an honest evaluation when you only present the stats that support your view
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
by CH74 on Dec 30, 2011 4:46 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
You re the stats guy, just put the stats in that you ignored!
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Just rushing yards, rushing touchdowns, W/L %
Because why would we want to consider rushing totals for a QB? Probably because those points and yards count towards the outcome of the game!
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
The whole team sucks man, even your Runslinger QB.
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
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by CPT.Caveman on Dec 30, 2011 10:40 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
runslinger is actually hilarious!
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 30, 2011 11:34 PM MST up reply actions
Agreed CPT, Runslinger is awesome!!!
BTW, at first I flagged this comment. I think I was just pissed from Damon’s selective picking and misrepresentation of stats. Anyway, you’re a good guy as far as I’m concerned and you always try to be respectful as possible. I apologize—-it’s unflagged.
by Bronco Mike on Dec 31, 2011 12:58 AM MST up reply actions
The Caveman should be on the MHR staff! We need a Nickname Editor!
I agree, Larsen shouldn’t get any bigger. I am getting tired of his bone crushing hits knocking the pixels off my TV, once they fall to the floor they are very hard to find.
by Arctic Bronco on Dec 31, 2011 11:22 AM MST up reply actions
If my team sucks...
Then your team blows, Cavey!
Hows it going man? Good to see you here, my misguided friend! I’d wish you luck on Sunday, but it’s one of the two games in a season where I can’t.
The Runslinger vs. King Neckbeard, for all the marbles for me and none for you! You gotta like that. Have you guys locked Kyle down for the long term? Planning on reuniting him with McDaniels in the off-season? I hear it is a distinct possibility!
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Just two games? There are at least 12 games per year where I wish the Chefs nothing but the worst. I don’t root for their injuries, but I sure do love watching them getting housed by the Jets, Buffalo, Detroit, Miami, NE. They have many bad losses this year. Other than destroying Oakland in Carson’s 1st game, all their wins were by the skin of their teeth. Not that ours were not, but we have 8 wins vs their 6. Soon to be 9.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
I technically could wish him luck for the other 14, but I probably wouldn't
Unless we need them to knock off the Faiders or the Dolts. We see where that got us last week? At least the Lions took care of business! Cavey is classy, though misguided. I tend to go easy on him, just because he is a likeable guy, for Chefs fan.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
In my mind Caveman looks just like Phil Hartman from the SNL skit unfrozen caveman lawyer.
Brad… a photo please?
I’m just a caveman… your world confuses and frightens me.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
Nice!
I keep waiting for the moniker “And Son” to show up over there at AP, but I have yet to see it.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
My little brother like to go to the AP and stir the fire some, alot more than I ever did here in the past.
You can imagine the family get togethers and where the conversation leads. My other brother Darrell is 100% anti Tebow and thinks he completely sucks while I try and stay in the middle and look at things in a unbiased way.
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Why does this comment make me think of Bob Newhart?
I remember after our last game, you were sounding pretty biased, Cavey! It is all good though, we expected it.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
My brother Darrell
used to be a Bronco fan, but he got married and moved to Lynden, Washington, where he became a Seahawks fan. He thinks Tebow is pretty cool though. My step-brother Daryl doesn’t really get into football.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
I knew someone would catch that:P
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Good game Cavey, congrats
Look forward to meeting your team again next year!
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Thank you man.
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You mean this?
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UNGA BUNGA!!!
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Captain CAAAAAVEMAN and Son
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Jan 1, 2012 9:21 AM MST up reply actions
Everythings good.
Sounds like a WWE match up, doesn’t it:) I’ve heard some rumors about McDaniels because of the Pioli connection. I personally don’t like McDaniels because of what he did to your team and the cheating. But Pioli / Crennel / McDaniels were all together on a S.Bl winning team. While i wouldn’t like it McDaniels with limited powers might not be that bad, but the Reality is this is a run first team and McDaniels would be taking us in another direction, and for that reason alone I don’t think he’s a good fit.
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Well, Brandon Lloyd will look good in red too if you get McD!
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
Yeah, McD would take his wrecking ball to that
Pioli would be smart to pass on that one. McD needs to mature some more, even if he doesn’t have GM authority.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Please hire him
Leading the NFL’s worst offense and you can say good bye to your running game
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
Hahahaha
This made me laugh out loud at work.
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 8:01 PM MST up reply actions
Watch I'll end the fight above:P
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by CPT.Caveman on Dec 30, 2011 10:38 PM MST up reply actions
you didn't have to raise your club!
Gandhi Caveman?
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 30, 2011 11:34 PM MST up reply actions
You make a lot of good points Damon
I agree that it is early to compare Tebow to 3 and 4 year guys like the Sanchize. Stats in football are so enormously difficult to compare for many of the reasons you stated.
Great defenses, great running games, good receivers, and strong O-lines can make gigantic swings in any QB’s stats. Whether that stat is passing efficiency, QBR, YP/A, etc. Of all team sports, football may be the most reliant on the team aspect.
The bottom line is, what does a QB do with the talent that is around him since he is the only player on the field to touch the ball on nearly every play? In this sense, I do think that wins/losses is a fair stat to at least consider when discussing QB’s. I do not believe that this team goes 7-3 after our 1-4 start if Orton had remained the QB. Somehow the Tebow led Broncos, with his below average stats, found a way to win as a decent team. The only stat that easily encompasses that reality are wins/losses. It’s by no means perfect, but also by no means worthless.
Believe
Exactly. If Orton was 4-1, regardless of his play, he'd still be in.
That’s why in the end, for a QB, winning is by far the best stat.
It doesn’t mean you won the game for the team, but it does mean that you didn’t lose it for them.
A QB might not win by themselves, but I’d suggest that they are the player in the best position to lose the game by themselves.
Just because I speak with authority doesn't mean I actually know what I'm talking about.
By 'best' - I mean 'most important'.
Just because I speak with authority doesn't mean I actually know what I'm talking about.
I was going to evicerate your post, but I see several others have beaten me to it. Oh well.
Your claim that you bring honesty to this dicussion than cherry pick your stats is embarrasing.
While some are butt hurt that Tebow scores TDs with his feet vs his arm, all TDs count the same on the scoreboard.
That’s you’d conveniently overlook TD to INT ratio was surprising for a guy that claims to bring equity to this conversation. Tebow has a 12/5 TD to INT ratio as a passer. That’s excellent for any QB, esp a young one. It’s 18 to 10 when you factor in rushing TDs and fumbles. Still a good ratio, but shows you Tebow has more trouble fumbling than throwing picks.
And passer rating? Come on man. Tebow is 78 for the season. Elway’s was 79 for his career. Does that mean Elway would have been the 30th best QB in 2011? Tebow had a passing rating of 101 vs the Chefs. Orton was in the 80s after his 3 INT game vs Green Bay. Sanchise is at 79 for the season. Passer rating is a silly stat. Don’t throw it around.
Tebow is the couple of yards behind Cam Newton for most rushing yards by a QB. Those 636 yards count Damon. Just like his game winning TD vs the Jets. Defenses hate having to account for a running QB and it puts tremendous pressure on players to maintain gap responsibility.
If you want to talk QB stats and leave out TDs, INTs, rushing yards and TOP, that doesn’t make you honest. It just makes you selective.
Tebow isn’t leading the NFL best offense. Far from it and the PPG disappointment me, but he is doing several somethings right that have allowed Denver to win 7 of his 10 starts. Tebow is every bit as responsible for our 2nd half turnaround than any other player on our team.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
by McGeorge on Dec 30, 2011 9:29 PM MST up reply actions 10 recs
Is there a "super-rec" button?
If there was I’d use it. You’re on FIRE today McGeorge! Geeze…I’ll have some of whatever THIS guy drinks in the morning! Extra points for using “evicerate” in a sentence. I’m going to have to work that word into more conversations.
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 10:20 PM MST up reply actions
Good Summary
Well received. Thanks for the post.
Pretty hilarious: “I’m sure the dimwitted will whine about that endlessly, but they’ll whine regardless because that is their forte. Their core competency. Their gift to no one.”
We're gonna get together as a team and make some things happen this year.
I'd like your opinion McG
I’ve always valued your opinion even if I disagree with you. I’ve found this season VERY confusing and somewhat frustrating for reasons I don’t want to get into. But I agree with you. Tebow is going to be our QB next year and he has done a decent job. My question is in regards to this off season and where we go from here.
As far as the draft is concerned, I’m a believer in taking the best player available but lets be honest, thats a relative and subjective concept. There may be 4-10 players all ranked within 1/1000 of each other at the 20 pick. What position would you like to see us address? I think you will say DT. I certainly wouldn’t be upset with a good DT, but I cant seem to get over wanting the best TE available. I feel like TE is a position we could get immediate results from and well worth a #20 pick. Whats your thoughts.
KO
This post was meant for you.
I’d rather get Josh Johnson or Dennis Dixon as Tebow’s backup.
I don’t think you need to draft around Tebow because we’ve already got a young O.
I’d draft D again in 2012. Make sure I added a DT in rounds 1 or 2. Add a CB high as well. That leaves only one high pick for O. I’d use it on a speed back with home run or big play ability. We really need one of those. He can also return our punts since Royal will be playing elsewhere.
I’d also draft a speed WR later in say round 4. Add a DE and DT with the 5th rounders and use the 7th on O-line. You could change around the the order of when guys are taken, but I’d like to see Denver draft two DTs (one high), one DE, one CB (high), one RB, one WR and one O-line. That’s seven picks.
I’d avoid TE since we took two in 2011 and they’ll get a full off-season to grow. I’ll also pretend that Moore and Carter are going to get a lot better so we won’t need another safety.
"may they have years of misery as Tebow leads our Broncos to success." that’s the spirit.
20th pick. I take a CB or DT unless a really good ILB is there.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
by McGeorge on Dec 31, 2011 9:08 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Thats spot on
Give it another year to see where we are with our young Safeties and Mike LBs as well as the TEs. Having an actual offseason should help those guys improve. Corner and D line depth will go far in strengthening the defense if our young safeties can progress. A deeper rotation will do more good than adding just one stud Dlineman. Hopefully, we can get some production out of Warren in 2012, but I am not going to count on it. We’re probably going to need to pick up a QB, and free agency is the way to go there.
"You’re only great if you win something. I mean, Alexander wasn’t Alexander the Mediocre or Alexander the Average. He was Alexander the Great, and there’s a reason for it."-Shannon Sharpe
Avoiding TE's
is a good plan as I dont think we have any idea if ours can play. We do nothing with them. If they were running drag patterns or seam’s, they would be open on Tebow’s scampers around the backfield and would be some of our leading receivers but they are just small tackles that are eligible to catch a pass. Fells has shown good hands. Rosario is one of Tebow’s favorite targets in crunch time and I still have hope that Thomas with an offseason will develop. Green is already a pretty decent TE as far as blocking goes and has caught most of the passes thrown to him just not many have headed his or any other TE’s way.
-claps-
W-L record doesn't matter to me.... I just want to see a team on the rise at the end of the year!
Nice job mcG...always enjoy reading your posts. As we day in Australia: Keep the bastards honest!
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
one game to make the playoffs
and there’s actually people (the ‘intelligentsia’?) who hope we tank so that we can get a better draft pick. why, you ask? so that next year we might be able to make the playoffs.
good stuff as always, McG.
yeah, its freaking genius isn't it Ox?
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
I know mate...we are just dumb, useless plebs.....we are in good company man! Happy New Year my friend!
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
Vail mate.
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
Your posts are too few and far between McG
But very welcomed during downer weeks like this one. Amazing how quickly the pendulum swings back and forth from one side to the other in a matter of mere weeks. You are absolutely right pointing out that this Bronco team is playing far beyond its expectations from August. To even be in a playoff hunt would have been seen as miraculous in August, to be in control of our own destiny in week 17 would have seemed like extreme homerism.
However this season ends, it will be a success when we consider it as a whole. If we fail to make the playoffs on Sunday, I will still feel like this team let itself down at the end, but will be beyond excited for the next year to begin.
Keep up the great work sir.
Believe
by BroncoPH on Dec 30, 2011 5:26 PM MST reply actions 4 recs
An interesting point on UFA QBs
We very well may be in play for one this offseason, but who? Shaun Hill was serviceable when he started for the 49ers. But Orton has more experience starting. I think you’re right that Orton is the best of the group. It would be too much to have him back, though. Tebow alone generates enough non-stop news coverage, without having the “Orton is back” QB controversy. I wouldn’t mind Hill as Tebow’s backup.
And I agree that we have too many holes as a team to go deep in playoffs. Realistically, we also got some good breaks to even be where we are today (e.g. Cutler and Forte injuries turning a playoff-bound Bears into a struggling team). So I wouldn’t be surprised if we lose Sunday and miss playoffs. But I absolutely hope we win. It’s crazy that someone may wish his own team miss playoffs for a marginally better draft position. Those who wish for the same because they hate Tebow are contemptible. Thanks for nailing those bitter smarty pants – may they have years of misery as Tebow leads our Broncos to success.
I’d rather get Josh Johnson or Dennis Dixon as Tebow’s backup.
I don’t think you need to draft around Tebow because we’ve already got a young O.
I’d draft D again in 2012. Make sure I added a DT in rounds 1 or 2. Add a CB high as well. That leaves only one high pick for O. I’d use it on a speed back with home run or big play ability. We really need one of those. He can also return our punts since Royal will be playing elsewhere.
I’d also draft a speed WR later in say round 4. Add a DE and DT with the 5th rounders and use the 7th on O-line. You could change around the the order of when guys are taken, but I’d like to see Denver draft two DTs (one high), one DE, one CB (high), one RB, one WR and one O-line. That’s seven picks.
I’d avoid TE since we took two in 2011 and they’ll get a full off-season to grow. I’ll also pretend that Moore and Carter are going to get a lot better so we won’t need another safety.
“may they have years of misery as Tebow leads our Broncos to success.” that’s the spirit.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
Average is as average does.
I’d rank Tim right in the middle of the 32 starting QBs on display this weekend.
You said it best right there.
I am one of the skeptics, though I am far from intellectual or atheist. To insult us by saying our opinions are
stupiddemeans you, my friend.
"Ready are you? What know you of ready?"
Yoda
I agree....
I used to come to MHR to learn something. Now, instead, it seems simply to feature ad hominem attacks upon everyone who is not sure TT is The Chosen One. This place has really changed since TT came aboard.
I can see Russia from my house.
The whole year it has been one constant battleground.
So much love/hate for one person.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
I can understand love. But why hate for our team's QB who is winning?
McG was right. This goes beyond Tim’s unorthodox ball release
by si_ice on Dec 30, 2011 8:27 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
It sure does and I've said it all along,
it’s about what McG’s friend says, religion.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
It could be..
I think it is set off by the fact that Bronco’s fans (Denver especially) has been disappointed with “chosen ones” a LOT since Elway and it’s finally reached a fever pitch because of the kind of polarizing person/player Tebow is.
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 8:32 PM MST up reply actions
hey, I'm not going to hate
a guy because of what he believes in, but some do.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
Hopefully
Next year we can get back to what was the norm around here. I don’t see a QB controversy at least :/
Go Broncos!
I believe.... 9-7 till we ain't baby!
Don’t speak too soon Sean.
Orton reminded you and I both yesterday why we don’t miss him. Maybe he was done wrong in Denver (you are right about that), but he is nothing more than he showed yesterday. He simply isn’t a viable starting QB on a good NFL team. He’s below average for a starter.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
This is contradictory
You seem to agree with McGeorge that Tebow is middle of the road right now. But then you turn around and declare yourself a skeptic and take offense. If you agree, why do you put yourself in the category of stupid opinions that McG criticizes?
by si_ice on Dec 30, 2011 8:22 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I’ve got no problem with skeptics, but there are fewer of those than haters.
The haters are not my friends and their opinions are very stupid. And I don’t feel saying so demeans me. It’s just expressing truth.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
by McGeorge on Dec 30, 2011 9:02 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
About as well put as it can be...
nice read. Not only is intelligence relative but it also manifests itself in different ways. Let’s go Broncos!
Nice post!
I agree with most of what you said and I this post sums up why you’ve become one of my favorite authors on MHR. You always have a good perspective and well thought-out arguements. Even if I don’t agree 100% of the time it is safe to say you don’t make up your opinions on a whim or how you feel at that particular moment.
Rec’d!!! Keep ’em comin partner!
Quotes from my wife (2nd yr football fan) while watching the Broncos with me:
"Honey I know we are losing and you are upset but remember things could be worse. You could be cheering for the Raiders."
"THAT hit [Rahim on Jones] got a flag? What?!?! AND a FINE?!?! Why not just strap pillows to their heads and have a tea party on the 50 yard line since that's as much contact as the NFL will allow."
by DominantDenverDefense on Dec 30, 2011 8:23 PM MST reply actions
Thank you McG!
Many people needed a huge dose of that.
"If you went to the Fair with this guy and you played that game where you have to throw the ball through the hole..... he may never get it through the hole, but he's still gonna be walking away with all the stuffed animals!" Prime's commentary on our very own Tim Tebow!!!
"As iron sharpens iron, so will one man sharpen another." The Bible, by way of Tim Tebow.
"If I had to choose between an abundance of football intelligence, or football wisdom, I'd choose wisdom every single time...... John Fox has enough football wisdom to be carried in a dump truck." Me!
Hell yeah many people needed a dose of this
I mean, some hoping for a loss for a better draft pick, others saying we deserve to lose for how we treated “tin man” Orton…How can they call themselves fans?!?!?!
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"When John Elway is standing in lava with a football, he will stay there and sink until you're open"
-Seanbaby
What happened to Orton
was just because he went in the fetal position literally and figuratively more than any Broncos fan could muster, in the real world, you produce or you’re gone
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 30, 2011 11:44 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah this post sucks, your team sucks, you suck:P
Happy New Years and always remember to not inhale:P
Warning: If you're reading this it has been censored.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
hey hey hey, now wait a....
oh, is that a :P face? indicating sarcasm? oh….it was a joke!
carry on.
POP POP!!!
by Tollyvolley127 on Dec 31, 2011 12:47 AM MST up reply actions
I dunno why but a Maher-Limbaugh debate intrigues me...
of the sheer stupidity that could possibly come out of both of their mouths as they try to prove their points while not listening to the other guy’s views.
I'd rather watch some football
Or soccer, or even rugby for that matter. Curling doesn’t sound all that bad in comparison, either
FYI
Limbaugh is actually a huge football fan, while maher throws like a girl. sure, maybe their personas are opposite sides of the same coin, but one is better suited to talk Tebow.
by TheMascotArmy on Jan 1, 2012 2:04 AM MST up reply actions
Good post
Well Said.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn’t matter. I’m amphibious." – Charles Shackleford
"The last time the Browns were in a playoff, Cleveland wasn't a city. It was a President." - Johnny Carson
On the religion thing
I am not religious, but I will say this about Tebow:
I believe that in the history of our world, the most atrocious actions and cruel intentions against mankind have been carried out by Christians. And that is exactly what I want my qb of the Broncos to do to our opponents.
One of the most patently false statements I've ever read.
Let’s see, Stalin(30M), Mao(50M), Hitler(67M in WWII), Khmer Rouge(3M) = 150 million dead. Let’s just say that atheists and the non-religious take top honors in the “atrocious actions and cruel intentions” department.
by VABroncos on Dec 31, 2011 10:26 AM MST up reply actions 3 recs
wikipedia is awesome, isn't it?
All I’m saying is that I find the Christian fundamentalists some of the craziest mfers to walk the earth, and if that’s what Timmy believes and it helps him to kick some Chief ass, then he surely has my “blessing”.
GO BRONCOS! (pleasedontbanmesiteadministrators)
Mao was a douche
Tianmen Square was completely inappropriate
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 31, 2011 12:51 PM MST up reply actions
I dont belive that statement one bit
since the dawn of recorded history, nothing has caused more blood-shed than those in the name of religion. You can debate that point all you want but the reign of three despots you mentioned are nothing compared to history of all the wars waged in the name of god. And those numbers still rise daily.
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
You're entitled to believe whatever you choose D70
But the facts are what they are and they are irrefutable. Even the most aggressive religious wars (Crusades 1 and 2) totaled in the thousands not millions. However since this isn’t the appropriate forum, best to leave it for another conversation.
"I wouldn't call it Tebow Time I'd call it Bronco Time"- Tim Tebow
by asinsoin on Dec 31, 2011 8:09 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
The crusades and the inquisitions
the records of the crusades are not accurate. The records of the inquisitions were destroyed at the time they were abolished. Your claim of thousands was but mere accounting for years, not the centuries of their rein. But you are right this is a football blog, religion, and politics don’t belong here. :)
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
There is no debate, leave it alone.
Communists killing has trumped everything else in human history.
by TheMascotArmy on Jan 1, 2012 2:07 AM MST up reply actions
Ratz! I rec'd a post that forgot to blast McDraftmaster. Will you please fix that oversight?
McG, you are one of my favorite MHR authors because you stuck by your guns during the McDisaster debacle. As for me, I was so disgusted that I just quit posting for quite a long time.
I agree, Larsen shouldn’t get any bigger. I am getting tired of his bone crushing hits knocking the pixels off my TV, once they fall to the floor they are very hard to find.
Quality post McG, thanks
I agree with almost everything you have said. I do not see quite as high a cieling for TT as you do, but it is only in a matter of degree. My gut feel is that EFX wants more of a conventional pocket passer and if Tebow really falls on his ass tomorrow, we could see a trade. Jacksonville anyone? It would cause quite a stir in Bronco Country but might be the best path going forward in the long run.
It all starts in the trenches - HT 11/11/08
Leave the hateful vitriol to the uninformed - HT 3/16/09
Lol...that would cause much more than a stir.
More like a riot. Considering the positions taken by Bowlen, Elway and Fox I’d put the odds of that happening at less than 10% regardless of the outcome tomorrow. Credibility matters and all three would lose major cred not to mention major $$$ if they traded Tim before giving him an offseason ,OTA’s, a full camp and another season.
"I wouldn't call it Tebow Time I'd call it Bronco Time"- Tim Tebow
First Fan, love ya man, but I think many are making decisions based on thinking that the MSM are telling us comes from Elway...
I will give you another way to think of it:
You have a QB who can still improve SO much in passing, yet, the kid is 7-3 and on the edge of leading his team to the play offs.
If you are Elway and Fox, you are thinking; “how good is this kid going to be once we work with him a whole off season, teach him some, and let the Duke work with him.”
C’Mon man…….of ALL the QB’s in the NFL Tebow probably has the most upside of any as he is not even scratching the surface as a passer, yet wins running, improvising and leading.
Who would not buy into this????
Happy New Year FirstFan, always love hearing from you!
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
by boydy2669 on Dec 31, 2011 8:19 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Well said!
I agree with you. To many people making negative judgements on Tebow holding him to some standard of established QB’s in the league when he’s playing his first season of football. Don’t know if he’ll make it or not, but agree that thus far there’s more positive than negative. I do tend to think he’ll be fine and he just might end up being really good.
The rest of this team needs to continue to mature and grow as well. Same story as with Tebow…they’ll either mature and be good players or the team will move on. As simple as that. No reason to let all of this force you into a negative attitude. Enjoy this overachieving season and let’s see if they can get into the playoffs! I’ll take even 8-8 any day over 4-12! If in the playoffs, you never know who can get hot and/or do some damage. I could see this team being dangerous if they can put together a complete game or two.
At the moment, who would you have: Tebow, Bradford or McCoy?.....easy answer I think!
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
Man, I wanted Bradford bad boydy.
I was so sure we were going to trade up for him. We had two 1st rounders and Bowlen went to Oklahoma. I was as positive as broncofansd was we were going to get Luck.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
Yeah man, but based on 2 seasons Tebow has done a lot better man.....thats why the draft is such a pot luck!
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
IDK
I mean how can anyone not like what Tebow has done and where he is going, but I think I’d take Bradford straight up for Tebow.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
I wouldn't
Bradford seems to be a bit frail and is having trouble staying healthy. Unfortunately he seems to have regressed this year as well but most of that is probably on McD and his incredibly complex O that takes 2 years to adapt to. I agree with Boydy that Tim would seem to have the higher ceiling if he can reach it.
"I wouldn't call it Tebow Time I'd call it Bronco Time"- Tim Tebow
His OL sucked.
Until Lloyd came, WRs sucked. Kendricks hasn’t really done anything since preseason.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
Hey man, not like our o line is stellar or we have good WR's either!
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
Our O line has had a total of 15 games
as a unit. Our WR’s and QB have had a total of 10 games as a unit. And we are on top of the AFC West with a chance to clinch tomorrow. They aren’t the best in the NFL right now but they are getting the job done when it counts. And with more time together they can only get better!
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
Mate, not denying that...just saying that if thats an excuse for Bradford, then it sure as hell is for Tebow too!
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
True Dat!
Bradford took some major steps backward this season. Where as Tebow has taken steps forward. I was just trying to bolster your point :)
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
Thanks man. have a great new year my friend!
Foxy...you WERE on the hot seat, but you fooled me you rascally old deveil...keep building that team mate!
"Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!:
Champ Bailey.
And Happy New Year to you :)
".....Im the waiting beast....Im the twisted nerve..."
Bradford is a winner, but not in the good way you’d associate with that label. He thrives in the bully role, when he is surrounded by superior talent that keeps him clean and he gets to throw to guys running free. Pop him good a few times, ask him to beat a team with equal or better athletes, and he is ordinary and sometimes less.
In other words, tools wise, he is a special QB. Heart wise, he’d rather be playing tennis.
Thanks for that.
See that’s the stuff that never gets put out there on scouting reports. Personalities.
The best of the 2011-2012 season is yet to come.
Too early to call it on Bradford
Much like with Tebow, he needs more time and more weapons around him. Continuity at OC would help, too.
QB Stats
All the metrics undervalue the importance of turnovers. Each turnover should be treated as the sum of the average points you would score from that distance and the average number of points the opponent would score at that distance.
Every scoring drive by a qb is met with a possession by the other team. If a qb’s TD to int is nearly even, that means for every TD, the other team will get two possessions to respond, one likely at good field position.
Another important distinction ignored by solely looking at turnovers is the game context. Did they happen when the game was close or out of hand? Did they occur in field goal range? Tebow is golden in this respect.
Anyway, as Churchill said, statistics are like drunks with a lamppost, used more for support than illumination.
Winston Churchhill
would have been better as an analyst than Cris Collinsworth had he come but 60 years later, sigh
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Jan 1, 2012 9:24 AM MST up reply actions
High Ceiling?
I don’t know what people see in Tebow. I think his best game was against the Vikings. I saw better pocket presence. Decisive reads/throws. Ran when he had to but more importantly he made throws on the run.
Today I saw a Tebow that was relevant to the one back in Miami. Minus the comeback. He’s hit his ceiling. This year. Safety spy? Don’t see that ever. Inability to throw inside the hash marks? Dates back to the senior bowl. Locking on one WR? Expected with any QB young and inexperienced but then I think of Dalton who’s had less time in a training camp setting and offseason to boot.
Tebow has earned 2012. There is no denying that. Do we draft a QB? I don’t know but I think resigning Quinn for a year wouldn’t hurt. After seeing GB’s Flynn light up the Lions for 480 yards and six TDs, I’d like to trade for that kid but Tebow supporter’s wouldn’t like that very much. What I like to see less of Tebow prayers and more reviewing defense data sheets because our WRs do get open in the middle except Tebow likes to throw seams and outside the hashmarks and towards the sidelines.
I maybe in the minority but I do point out that he’s improved in some aspects of his mechanics but Elway cannot be accused of not giving Tebow his shot but I’m calling how I see it. This year we got by with some hard nosed defense (KC week 17 included), opportunity such as the Miami game and great game plans such as the triple offense against KC the first time.
The book is out on Tebow this year and he won’t be able to beat the Steelers with those limitations. I could be wrong as hundreds of Tebow fans chant “Tebow Time” but I love the QB position and he’s learning. He’s earned 2012. 2013? We’ll wait and see.
Say hello to my fast...
by dcrespo7 on Jan 1, 2012 9:43 PM MST reply actions 3 recs
Give him an offseason
to get a qb coach, maybe a new OC (Norv Turner cough cough), and let him get used to his teammates and the way they play. If he sucks next year then maybe it’s time to put tebow time on sleep mode
Water covers 70% of the Earth, Champ Bailey covers the rest.
by broncowrestler29 on Jan 1, 2012 10:02 PM MST up reply actions
This offseason I saw a documentary. Late night talk shows. Promotion for a book. He had an offseason to do whatever he had to.
He’s been coached up this year on QB skills which was evidenced back in Minnesota. That is where Tebow earned my vote of confidence for the 2012 season. However, where he used to do one read and bail, he rolls out. He’s young and learning to be a QB but I think he bought himself one year. Whether the rest of Bronco Country agrees with me is clearly a separate issue. Whether management agrees is what matters.
Say hello to my fast...
You are saying two different things. If the guy hit his ceiling (which is a nonsense thing to say) then why would you give him 2012.
Tebow earned 2012. Denver doesn’t need to build around him.. Denver needs to improve the medicore talent on our roster. I’m not saying you said this because you didn’t but only an idiot would say we are a QB away from contending. We are below average at several starting positions on O and D. We can use this off season to upgrade the RB spot (needed badly), upgrade the WR spot (needed badly), upgrade MLB, CB and DT. Do that and we’ll see if Tebow improves in 2012. The NFL had a lockout last season so he didn’t have an off season to improve. No coaching, no practice, new coaching staff. All you can do is lift weights and practice with buddies. It’s very far from the real thing and you know that.
Flynn will be targeted by several teams and I doubt we offer the most money or promise. He’ll end up in a place like Miami or Seattle (my guess).
The book is not out on Tebow. He just needs to play better. He needs to trust his arm and throw to our below average WRs when they are in one-on-one coverage.
One thing should be beyond clear at this point. Trading away good WRs like Gaffney and Lloyd and keeping a worthless WR like Royal was a bad move. Eddie was our starting WR yesterday and he flat out sucks. Decker and DT show promise, but they need an offseason of work as much as Tebow. They still need to learn a lot of tricks of the trade. They both run below average routes and both have problems with drops.
Tim Tebow is Denver's 2012 starting QB. I'm not even kind of sorry that offends some of you (including you Elway).
by McGeorge on Jan 2, 2012 1:20 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm recommending this post for another reason...
Because after three days it still has a great conversation going!
It is better to keep silent, and appear to be wise, then to ramble on aimlessly and remove all doubt! The Wisest Man, Solomon.
Is the possibility that Tebow never gets any better as a passer, or more effective as a passer, OK with you? If so, and that comes to pass, then he would have hit his ceiling during this current season.
2012 is ostensibly a year where ‘room to improve’ is important. If you believe he has anything to improve, of course.
by cosBroncosFan on Jan 4, 2012 5:29 PM MST up reply actions
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