More About Robert Ayers by: Ted Bartlett

"When a defensive team sets the edge well, they make it seem hopeless for an offense to even run to that side. In my opinion, there’s a lot of value in that - arguably more than a CB who "takes away half the field."

I am not saying that rushing the passer is unimportant. It is very important, but it has to be seen in the overall context of the game. The objective for a defense is to prevent the opposing offense from scoring points. Sacks help do that, but since they’re fairly rare events, they have less impact than they’re given credit for.

This is where I run into problems with draftnik-types. They always want to trade up, and trade down, and stockpile picks, and worry about reaches and sleepers, and whether or not you should take a front-seven guy who isn’t a major pass rusher 18th overall. They think in terms of draft picks, and extrapolations based upon scouting reports, but not in terms of what players actually end up turning into a few years out. Once the pick is exercised, worrying about what else could have been done with it is worthless."

over 1 year ago Horsepower 50 comments 2 recs |

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Comments

Posting my response here since their site wasn't letting me...

I’ll get in the ring with you for the title of Ayers’ biggest fan on the Internet. I’ve been touting his play too quite a bit and have to say I completely agree with what you are saying. He’s one of five guys on defense that are worth keeping….in case anyone is interested:

1. Elvis Dumerville
2. Champ Bailey
3. Robert Ayers
4. Justin Bannan
5. Perrish Cox

Yeah I said Perrish Cox…if his legal issue is resolved and he is still in the NFL I think he is going to develop into a superb CB.

Anyhow, Ayers is the real deal. I expect to see even more from him with us switching to a 4-3. He should benefit from not having to focus on pass-defense and dropping back into coverage. People who call him a bust frankly need to open their eyes and watch him instead of looking at stat lines.

"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV

by sadaraine on Feb 19, 2011 10:59 AM MST reply actions

+1, Agreed

Ayers is a potentially physically effective DE, who just needs a little time to develop. I think alot of the fans here in denver say that he’s a bust because we see how well Clay Mathews developed. Clay Mathews has developed damn near better in 2 year faster than any other Defensive prospect in the last 5-10 years. Ayers has the tools and if he can consistently stay healthy will have anywhere from 6-10 sacks with an imporvement from the the other 3 DL that we have. He is not an elite pass rusher, but is a productive player that needs help around him to get sacks as well (Spillage Sacks). He can create pressure, which is all you need to get the whole of the defense better, which is exactly what we need. With Dumerville back, I think we will provide a strong pass rush to affect opposing qb’s. But I like Ayers and cant wait to see him continoully develop!!!

"I'll be your huckleberry" - Doc Holiday

"Im here to do a great (expletive) job" - Rob Ryan when introduced to media as DC of cowboys

by DatdudeDubb on Feb 19, 2011 1:07 PM MST up reply actions

Ayers get's stood up by blockers way to easily for my pleasure...

The defense can’t expect to be successful more often than not if the quarterback has way to much time to track down an open receiver! Ayers hasn’t shown that ability as of yet with 2 years of on field experience. I get the fact that he was drafted to be an OLB in the system McD/Nolan installed where he was a 4/3 DE in college. Some DE’s who are slightly lighter can make the trasition easily, some can’t and in the Ayers case, can’t out weighs the can. Now going back to a 4/3 defense might make a difference in his play but, he still has to learn how to shed blockers to penetrate the pocket on passing downs or plays. I hope he succeeds in this new transition because if he doesn’t we might struggle once again. If Fox/Allen can teach him where Nunnely has hasn’t then so be it, but I will remain reserved with Ayers’ performance level. Show me…

by bfree2bronc on Feb 21, 2011 11:05 AM MST up reply actions

Have to disagree w/ya

If you watch the broncos defensive philosophy w/McD he was drafted to be the physical point of attack/set the edge type of player in the 3-4 defense. That is why is most NE/Mcdaniels types of Defenses they have large OLB and most of em dont usually exceed 10 sacks per year because of the type of Defense. But in his case he is not elite with his hands, he is the more athletic ability type of pass rusher that needs to have space to rush the pass rusher. Meaning he loves the option to be able to go inside and outside with rushes and thats where he struggles, but with time and tutelage he can be taught how to take advantage of those skillz. Or with the right type of DL partners or scheme can be brought out in a unique sort of way. Thats why on 3rd down he will line up as a 3 tech on DL and usually generates very good pressure at least as a rookie. But sometime you have to have other DL, to play to your strengths and w/o Elvis and in a 3-4, he wasnt able to use his strength, but w/Elvis back and they draft Bowers in next years draft and let him move around on DL,.I think we will be very pleasently surprised by his progression. Very suprised, but time will tell….

"I'll be your huckleberry" - Doc Holiday

"Im here to do a great (expletive) job" - Rob Ryan when introduced to media as DC of cowboys

by DatdudeDubb on Feb 21, 2011 11:42 PM MST up reply actions

+2

"I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything." - John Elway

by Pmoreno95 on Feb 19, 2011 4:47 PM MST via mobile up reply actions

Mostly agree

I’d throw in DJ too. He doesn’t get a lot of love around here, but he is very solid. He also led the team with 5.5 sacks this year. I think he could do very well in Dennis Allen’s system. Just my two cents.

by HBobbyT on Feb 19, 2011 5:27 PM MST up reply actions

I wouldn't throw in DJ...I'd throw him out

He doesn’t deserve much love for his performance the past couple years…I will say that back at Will he will have a good opportunity to pick up his game and have a more positive impact on our defensive play.

"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV

by sadaraine on Feb 20, 2011 1:31 AM MST up reply actions

Yeah but still

He’s led the team in tackles every year I can remember and getting 5.5 sacks from an ilb position is impressive.

by HBobbyT on Feb 20, 2011 11:47 AM MST via mobile up reply actions

Leading the team in tackles doesn't mean much when it is 5 yards down the field

He really did not do well at ILB or MLB overall…really.

"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV

by sadaraine on Feb 20, 2011 2:34 PM MST up reply actions

but there were 6 other players in front of him that let the play get past them.

by DaLostBoy4 on Feb 21, 2011 7:46 AM MST up reply actions

We are talking about DJ's performance yes?

Then let’s talk about DJ’s performance. He is not instinctive as a LBer and doesn’t get off blocks worth a darn. These are both things that are high-priority in an ILB / MLB.

He’ll be fine at WILL…it won’t require as much of those two skills.

"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV

by sadaraine on Feb 21, 2011 10:19 AM MST up reply actions

Fast enough to play WILL you think?

by swg777 on Feb 21, 2011 12:15 PM MST up reply actions

Fast is his strength

Yes indeed

"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV

by sadaraine on Feb 21, 2011 3:12 PM MST up reply actions

I'm not high on DJ the last few years...

Doesn’t seem to attack the LOS, and many tackles are from behind. With that being said, the guy’s had to change positions seemingly every year since he entered the league. I was stoked about this guy as a Will his rookie year, and since he moved he’s never been the same. The guy isn’t too old, and I’d like to see what a move back to Will could do for him. Please please please don’t put him at Sam or Mike (I’d like Mays to have a shot at Mike, he may not be Ray Lewis, but he hits like a truck and bring the intensity we’ve been missing since Big Al retired). I’m the type who wants our fiery defensive leader to be a MLB and nobody else.

If I had a dollar for every Super Bowl San Diego has won, I'd go window shopping at the dollar store.

by Kgrone on Feb 20, 2011 7:23 AM MST up reply actions

I have to disagree. If Ayers main job was to set the edge as a 3-4 OLB then he was a reach at #18.

Now I’m not saying he is a bust. I like Ayers and the physical tools he brings to the table. I am looking forward to seeing him as a 4-3 DE and hope he can stop making me think he was a reach. I definitely believe we drafted him solely on potential instead of production and I don’t think that is the way to draft in the 1st round. I am definitely not of the mindset that thinks we should get rid of him.

Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.

by BroncoMath101 on Feb 19, 2011 12:18 PM MST reply actions

Here is the bottom line....

Ted Bartlett is very interesting and fun to read, if you can get past his self-adulation. Here is what I think of Ted’s comments and Robert Ayers in general:

- I have no idea what this last paragraph means. I literally have no clue what he is talking about.

- If the 2009 draft were held today, Robert Ayers would not be drafted in the first two rounds. In fact, he might not be drafted in the first three or four rounds. That is pretty damning.

- You don’t draft a top 20 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE that has literally no ability to get to the QB.

- What exactly is Robert Ayers “projecting” to be??? If he doubles his production he still wouldn’t make the Pro Bowl.

- “Setting the edge” is a desired thing, don’t get me wrong, but you don’t draft someone in the first round who has that ability alone.

- There is ZERO evidence to believe Robert Ayers will evolve into a difference making stallion 4-3 DE. Yes, we have seen a few plays where he has penetrated the backfield and disrupted a few plans. However, we also saw a sack by Jarvis Moss in the preseason and everyone starting going crazy around MHR.

- I am not a “hater” of Robert Ayers. I hope that he will become an effective player. We have little evidence to suggest he will.

by swg777 on Feb 19, 2011 1:55 PM MST reply actions

Dude...

You kinda sound like a hater when you say things like he wouldnt be drafted in the first 4 rounds. Robert Ayers is effective now, granted its only in stopping the run but thats a valuable commodity and probably the main reason he was drafted. Before you start attacking the guys abilities and his potential in his natural alignment lets see him play first.

by Bronco619 on Feb 19, 2011 3:25 PM MST up reply actions

I’ve watched every game for two years. Thanks. His career is not set in stone yet, don’t get me wrong, I’m just waiting for something, anything.

by swg777 on Feb 19, 2011 5:09 PM MST up reply actions

Cool

Join the club lol i’m not saying he’s going to be some dominant lineman because frankly i don’t have a clue. I’m just saying that I’ve see a noticeable difference from year one to year two and i think when we put him back into the 4-3 playing from a down position we will see even greater improvement. Well at least I hope so lol

by Bronco619 on Feb 19, 2011 10:51 PM MST up reply actions

If stopping the run was the main reason a 3-4 OLB was drafted then our front office was not doing it right.

Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.

by BroncoMath101 on Feb 19, 2011 5:10 PM MST up reply actions

For a team who was 31st against the run in 2010, the front office shouldn't have focused on a way to stop the run?

That doesn’t make much sense to me.

The ignorant redneck formerly known as kentuckybronco.

by Troy Hufford on Feb 19, 2011 7:25 PM MST up reply actions

I think he means

that they should have targeted a NT or 5tech DE… I have already forgotten the 2009 prospect info, though, so I couldn’t say what options they had. Alas, my little brain only has so much room, and one draft class tends to push out another. It is pretty sad really…

Change your opinions, keep to your principles; change your leaves, keep intact your roots.

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 19, 2011 9:07 PM MST up reply actions

It's alright.

Thanks for the clarification. I took the comment a bit differently. From what I remember, people were pretty upset about not taking Orakpo at 12 instead of Moreno. That doesn’t have anything to do with Ayers, though.

Regarding your memory, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Hindsight is 20/20, but retrospection often leads to self flagellation.

The ignorant redneck formerly known as kentuckybronco.

by Troy Hufford on Feb 19, 2011 9:36 PM MST up reply actions

Jeremy is right. If they wanted a run stuffer they should have targeted a front 3 position not an OLB whose main job is to get after the QB.

I don’t have a problem addressing the run D and in fact am for it. I just think if that was the plan they looked at the wrong position with Ayers.

Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.

by BroncoMath101 on Feb 19, 2011 10:22 PM MST up reply actions

To me, Ayers was more of a DE in a 5-2 than a 3-4 OLB.

They picked him up from Tennessee where he was a 4-3 end. In Denver, they listed him as an OLB, but he basically played the line of scrimmage as a 5-2 end. Although they “changed his position” by saying he wasn’t a DE anymore, he is still a DE to me. If most of your snaps are on the line of scrimmage, you’re a lineman.

Same goes for Dumervil. He may be listed as a 3-4 OLB, but that’s not what I consider him.

Again, if you go back and look at the 2009 draft, you won’t see a ton of options for the Broncos at 16 if you want front 3. Even in retrospect, who would you have taken?

The ignorant redneck formerly known as kentuckybronco.

by Troy Hufford on Feb 19, 2011 10:52 PM MST up reply actions

That may be true and if our plan was to stay with the 5-2 then good but our plan all along

was to switch to a 3-4. The 5-2 was just to help the transition. If they just took him to be a 5-2 with no thought to his place in the 3-4 then it was a very short sighted move.

Hindsight is 20/20 so I won’t say much but I had Maualuga on my big board and was disappointed when the Broncos took Moreno at 12 and Ayers at 18. I was hoping for Maualuga at 18 personally. Of course now I can say Matthews would have been my pick :)

Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.

by BroncoMath101 on Feb 20, 2011 10:07 AM MST up reply actions

Unless I've lost my marbles

Dan Williams and Ziggy Hood were available after the Ayers pick.

"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great." Mark Twain
"If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done." Wittgenstein

by Horsepower on Feb 19, 2011 9:39 PM MST up reply actions

Dan Williams was available much much much later.

He was in the 2010 draft.

The ignorant redneck formerly known as kentuckybronco.

by Troy Hufford on Feb 19, 2011 9:50 PM MST up reply actions

Yep, I've lost my marbles!

See I told you. I guess it was Peria Jerry that was still available, but he was not a good fit for the 3-4 at all. And if you want to open up a can of worms, Clay Matthews wasn’t taken ’till #26 overall in 2009.

by Horsepower on Feb 19, 2011 9:53 PM MST up reply actions

Yeah, that's the name I was figuring someone would bring up. :)

But again, the Broncos aren’t the only team wishing they could have had Clay Matthews in hindsight. There are 25 teams who passed over him..

The ignorant redneck formerly known as kentuckybronco.

by Troy Hufford on Feb 19, 2011 10:04 PM MST up reply actions

I think what he's saying is..

If you showed a team his performance to date… back before he was drafted in ‘09… he wouldn’t be drafted in the first two rounds. I agree.

I have a much more favorable opinion of Ayers than swg, I believe. I think he’s a great run stopper and makes some plays in the backfield. I think learning a new position and injuries have slowed his progress. He’s solid and still has a lot of upside. But his production thus far has far from warrented a top-20 pick. A player at his position doesn’t go in the first round if it’s known that he won’t notch sacks in the first couple years. 4-3 DEs and 3-4 OLBs earn their money getting after the QB. The ones that don’t, are still drafted and can still be solid, and can maybe learn to do some of that… but they don’t get drafted early without teams believing their a true pass rusher.

by Rodney A on Feb 19, 2011 8:59 PM MST up reply actions

I disagree

Ayers was routinely our best defensive player before he had his foot injury. He was never the same afterward.

He is an extremely powerful player. He played 4-3 DE in college and excelled at it. When he gets his hand back in the dirt, he is going to be a master at setting the edge and bull rushing the QB. There is a huge difference from standing up and rushing the QB and having your hand in the dirt and rushing the QB. Ayers is a hand in the dirt guy.

He hasn’t had any production so far because he was converting to a totally different position. He had some growing pains. When he started to come on, he hurt his foot.

This year, if he can stay healthy, he is going to come into his own opposite of Doom. He will be a great run stuffer as a DE and he is going to surprise you with his pass rush.

Ayers is one of the big reasons we shouldn’t draft Bowers. Give the guy a chance before we dedicate a high draft pick to replace him.

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"They said I couldn't be a high school quarterback, they said I couldn't get a D1 scholarship. You're not good enough, you're not skilled enough. They said I couldn't win a heisman. They said I couldn't win a national championship. They said I wouldn't be a first round draft pick. They said I couldn't play in the league. Appreciate that." - Tim Tebow.

by Nick Cast on Feb 19, 2011 3:52 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs

This

"I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything." - John Elway

by Pmoreno95 on Feb 19, 2011 4:51 PM MST via mobile up reply actions

I completely disagree with every single word of this. I’ve addressed this topic ad nauseum for the last several days so I won’t elaborate.

by swg777 on Feb 19, 2011 5:13 PM MST up reply actions

that's fine

but I think his play in the early part of the year speaks for itself.

He did a great job in the Tennessee game. He was instrumental in shutting down Chris Johnson.

by Nick Cast on Feb 19, 2011 6:30 PM MST up reply actions

Good

You just take your ball and go home then.

LOL…this stuff kills me. Time will tell with Ayers. He for sure isn’t a bust. I expect him to be a starter on our D-Line for years to come.

"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV

by sadaraine on Feb 20, 2011 1:46 AM MST up reply actions

I agree that he could be better in his natural position and with Fox's defensive scheme he could become effective

but until it happens I won’t proclaim that he’ll be a beast or defend him against drafting Bowers if that is what the FO decides to do. I like Ayers and hope he develops into something more worthwhile of his draft position but until he does I’ll reserve judgement.

Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.

by BroncoMath101 on Feb 19, 2011 5:13 PM MST up reply actions

Hand on the ground

I agree with this assessment. His first year they used him with his hand down quite a few times and he was a beast that could not finish the play. That has always been my criticism of him. He is very good at getting there but not at actually doing much about it.

I think with his hand back on the ground he will start showing up more and more and finishing a few more plays. It wouldn’t take many to add up to 5-6 sacks then 7-8 then 8-10. I see nothing but good for him so long as he does not get injured.

by kimbertr on Feb 19, 2011 8:09 PM MST up reply actions

777, I like your stuff but I dont know what you were watching last year:

Ayers played GREAT against the run.
Was the ONLY D player doing his job, by setting the edge and collapsing pockets.
Consistently double teamed and still got into the back field.
Was asked to do his job AS WELL as bring pressure once Doom went down.

The ONLY player on our whole D that other teams loaded up against was Robert Ayers and he still played well, flashed and got better.

I disagree with you 100% on this one.

FIRE JOE ELLIS!

ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!

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by boydy2669 on Feb 20, 2011 6:15 AM MST up reply actions

Not to beat the dead horse on this one but I watched every pro game he has ever played and

- I have never seen him “collapse the pocket” more than once every three games, approximately.

- I have never seen him “consistently double teamed and still get into the back field.”

- I have never seen him bring pressure, other than maybe once every three games.

Time will tell. As I said, I’m not saying he is going to definitely be terrible. I’m just saying I expect more out of a starting first round pick.

by swg777 on Feb 20, 2011 6:23 AM MST up reply actions

http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/9/18/1697244/under-review-robert-ayers-vs-jags

The ignorant redneck formerly known as kentuckybronco.

by Troy Hufford on Feb 20, 2011 10:00 AM MST up reply actions

We watched the same games, and obviously sees things differently. Thats cool...agree to diagree and we will move on.

FIRE JOE ELLIS!

ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!

"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"

Harv Neptune.

by boydy2669 on Feb 20, 2011 8:22 PM MST up reply actions

you’re looking for flashes… I think it’s possible that not every player is asked to do things like be disruptive and blow up plays. If that’s what you’re looking for, you won’t find it. If Ayers is asked to hold his place so that offenses won’t attempt to go in a direction that they would otherwise go, and if Ayers succeeds, then Ayers would look awesome that know (or have the perspective to know) that that is his role, while to others he’d look boring, like he’s underperforming.

by tunesmith on Feb 20, 2011 10:52 PM MST up reply actions

Good comments swg, but Ted made some good points as well

Think about it like this. The offense runs the ball to their right on 1st down, and Ayers sets the edge, helping the defense hold the runner to no gain. The offense runs again on 2nd down, to the other side, and gets 2 yards. On 3rd and 8, the defense is in an advantageous situation. They’re going to be successful in forcing a punt in that down and distance nearly 70% of the time, and the reason they’re there is because they held up against the run on the early downs.

Ayers is a tweener, much like Doom and Reid and was not drafted to be a 3-4 OLB as you stated. He was drafted to be a 5-2 DE, similar to those that played in the Oklahoma 5-2 in the late ‘40s. Those guys weren’t linebackers yet, just as Ayers wasn’t coming out of college.

Was he worth a top 20 pick? Who really cares? I don’t believe he was drafted to be a pass-rusher, just as you and others would suggest. I believe he was drafted to prevent offenses from staying on schedule, which appears to be an extremely underrated concept here. I don’t know why, but that’s the perception that I have. What matters in my opinion, is that we have a good player who could be a great player in the 4-3 or a hybrid scheme.

I don’t believe a 5-2 DE is expected to be a pass rusher from that position. The purpose of that position, devised by former Sooners’ coach Bud Wilkinson, was to stop fakes and misdirection plays by the offense. Only later when the 3-4 OLB position was born, were those linebackers expected to drop into coverage or rush the QB. I think with Ayers, the idea was that he’d start out as a 5-2 DE and then evolve into a 3-4 OLB if his skillset will allow it.

After 2 years, it is still unknown if that will happen. For us to find out, he needs to be on the field for 16 games for us to be sure. Despite his apparent coverage handicap, Ayers has prevented a lot of activity by offenses to his side. Champ always had his receiver covered, while Ayers was disruptive consistently on the strong side until he was injured. And while he was healthy, Joe Mays hadn’t made his way into the lineup just yet. Which means offenses could direct receivers across the middle, especially tight ends, who burned Haggan consistently.

For Ayers to be most effective, he needs the ILBs to be good to great in coverage, because that is what a good offense will do to counter a good player such as Ayers: expose the vacancies in the middle of the field using a receiving RB, a slot receiver, or a TE. And let’s face it – we saw a lot of that against the defense in 2010. In fact, that was the Denver defense’s downfall last year. They’d play well for a few downs, only to get burned for 30 yards by a pass-catching RB or some #3 receiver.

To me, the only wins and losses that matter are on Sundays, MNF, and the occasional Saturday playoff game. The draft is a crapshoot and the only losers are the real draft busts who never amount to anything. If Ayers takes another step forward next season, then all of this back and forth will turn out to be an awful waste of energy and people’s time.

by Horsepower on Feb 20, 2011 9:25 AM MST reply actions 1 recs

Huh????

Ayers was drafted to be a 5-2 DE???? I have two words for many of you Ayers defenders: “MYOPIC HOMERISM.”

- He was drafted to “prevent offenses from staying on schedule???” What are you talking about? Is this rugby?

- So, you are saying the plan, all along, was to run a 5-2 and then go to a 3-4 if Ayers skillset evolved into it? So we planned our whole scheme around Ayers development??? This is possibly the most clear case of grasping for straws that I have ever witnessed.

- “Ayers was disruptive consistently.” Really? Are you talking about Akeem Ayers out of UCLA??? Robert Ayers for the Denver Broncos certainly was not. You know, there are stats that measure tackles for loss and QB hurries, since we already know his sack numbers are putrid. Check the stats out.

- Don’t confuse me with the 21st century sports fan who has a small attention span, is addicted to Madden Football, and expects instant results. I’m the polar opposite. All I am saying is Ayers has been a big disappointment thus far. I hope that changes in the future, but we have little evidence that it will.

by swg777 on Feb 20, 2011 1:38 PM MST up reply actions

And all we are saying is that we completely disagree with you

And I keep saying that you haven’t watched him…go look at film of the first handful of games this season before he injured his foot. He was doing more than just fine.

I stick by that sentiment as well. I don’t care if you don’t play Madden and actually do have a long attention span…you just flat out haven’t been paying attention to Ayers to take that kind of stance based on your reasoning.

"Bombs dropping down overhead. Underground. It's instilled to want to live." -EV

by sadaraine on Feb 20, 2011 2:37 PM MST up reply actions

Wow

If I knew I was going to receive such a series of smug responses, I wouldn’t have wasted 15 minutes of my life typing that post above.

I know I referred to Ayers’ position as 5-2 DE, but it was done because I didn’t want to go overboard with the terminology. I think you know full well I was referring to the hybrid DE/OLBs such as Terrell Suggs, LaMarr Woodley, and James Harrison. So why get personal? And when I said stay on schedule, I was referring to doing his part to force offenses into as many 3rd and long situations as possible. I thought you’d understand these things.

I am not saying the entire defense was planned around Ayers’ development. All new guys drafted are on some developmental schedule of their own, with a short term and a long term plan in mind. At first, he was expected to become comfortable playing standing up, stopping the run, funneling plays back inside. Later, he’d be asked to assist in the pass rush, and eventually, he’d be asked to take on a greater role, including dropping into coverage with the use of zone blitzes, for example.

If I were you, I wouldn’t break my arm patting myself on my back. Keep it up, and you’ll be self-adulating like Ted, bragging about the size of your calves. People have a right to make a case and stand by it. What’s frustratingly funny in all of this is the fact that we all generally agree that Ayers needs to play better than he has so far, and that arguably, he was drafted too high.

For all bloggers who were raised in a barn and want to duke it out some more, feel free to argue to death here. I’ll watch with great amusement from afar.

by Horsepower on Feb 20, 2011 3:28 PM MST up reply actions

I can see I came off as smug, and I apologize. My response to your post was the culmination of my frustration for that and about ten others. I don’t think any of my response was personal, and if it was I am sorry.

I have watched every Bronco game this year multiple times. I have DVR’d every game and reviewed them to the point where my wife thought I was a complete idiot. I DO remember what Ayers looked like prior to breaking his foot and I DO remember what Ayers looked like after breaking his foot. Prior to breaking his foot, he had a few games where he penetrated the line of scrimmage and put himself in a position to tackle the rusher for a loss. The games after breaking his foot showed him to be a very neutral player.

I guess we will agree to disagree. I have seen no evidence to believe Ayers will be anything more than an average NFL player. The defense of him, at least to me, appears to be blind homerism. I acknowledge I could be wrong. Hopefully I am.

by swg777 on Feb 20, 2011 3:44 PM MST up reply actions

No worries

I think the defense could’ve benefited from Doom’s presence. And having to replace 3 of the 4 DBs in the secondary at different times due to injuries didn’t help the pass rush much either. (Hill was the only one who managed to stay healthy all year, I think.)

Sounds like your wife has a lot in common with mine (=

by Horsepower on Feb 20, 2011 4:00 PM MST up reply actions

TedB once again makes great points

When Ayers has been healthy, I’ve been relatively impressed with his play. He was our best defensive player early in the year, and that is saying something given Champ was playing relatively well. Sadly, he wasn’t getting a lot of help, but he was getting relatively consistent pressure, and folks weren’t getting outside him on run plays. Given all that, I’m extremely against saying he’s a bust (the standard for a later 1st round pick is NOT superstar…).

That said, he hasn’t been able to stay healthy, he doesn’t have a great outside rush, and its hard to say he’s been great overall. He’s not a home-run or even a ground-rule double…. more a solid single. He needs someone else to drive him home, and no one else on our DEF has been able to do that.

by cjfarls on Mar 2, 2011 10:23 AM MST reply actions