Forgotten Strength: Part 2
I was surprised by the overwhelming approval of Forgotten Strength, and with a number of comments calling for another piece, I decided to oblige. One thing that stood out to me about the comments from the last post was about how we need to look for the good in the past season, despite some major pessimism.
So in this follow up post, I will be looking at some players that were not only bright spots when they stepped onto the field, but also may have gone unnoticed by the majority of Mile High Report readers. This time I will be looking at Justin Bannan, Jason Hunter, Spencer Larsen, and Mario Haggan. Now we need to remember that these guys have faults and make mistakes, but often we overlook the good they did, which often was much greater then the mistakes they made.
Justin Bannan
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Bannan |
|||||||
|
Year |
Sacks |
YdsL |
Int |
Yds |
Solo |
Ast |
Total |
|
2010 |
1 |
8 |
0 |
0 |
25 |
10 |
35 |
- 2nd on the Broncos in quarterback hits.
- 2nd on the Broncos in quarterback pressures.
- 3nd on the Broncos in quarterback knockdowns.
- 4th in Win Probability Added among Broncos defenders at Advanced NFL Stats.
- 3rd in terms of stopping scores and 3rd down conversion among Bronco defenders.
- 2nd among front seven players in passes deflected.
- Highest ranked Broncos lineman at ProFootballFocus.com.
- 5th ranked defensive end in the division at ProFootballFocus.com.
While he was recently released, Bannan's solid play was about the only thing the defensive line had going for it. And Bannan's numbers aren't all obvious, most often lost, but he was the best player we had on the defensive line by a long shot, out performing every other lineman in every category besides interceptions. Bannan often slips between the lines because he was part of the worst unit on the team, and because he didn't rake in major stats, but his impact was the only thing stopping every run play from getting into the linebackers and secondary. Now his play was hardly perfect, but with so many other issues on this team, he was a quiet rock among the sand that was the rest of the defensive line.
Jason Hunter
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Hunter |
|||||||
|
Year |
Sacks |
YdsL |
Int |
Yds |
Solo |
Ast |
Total |
|
2010 |
3 |
30 |
1 |
14 |
60 |
11 |
71 |
- 3rd on the Broncos in sacks.
- 5th on the Broncos in tackles.
- 1st on Broncos in yards lost created per sack.
- Tied for 2nd on the Broncos in interceptions.
- 3rd of all Bronco defenders in Win Probability Added at Advanced NFL Stats.
- 3rd of all Bronco defenders in Estimated Points Added per game at Advanced NFL Stats.
Jason Hunter, like Elvis Dumervil, came to the NFL as a defensive end, but due to scheme changes and when he was brought to Denver, he was moved to OLB for the first time in his career. For a guy who went undrafted, to come to Denver and becoming the starting LOLB, is impressive in itself. But the fact he was to come in for an injured Doom and do more then a lot of fans expected is amazing. While guys like Doom, Williams and Haggan are more well known for either being a balanced or pass rushing linebacker, Hunter played both roles well, playing contain on the outside as well as creating pressure in the backfield. For a guy who describes himself as a laid-back, joker, his on-field attitude is different, as described by past coach Jim Schwartz, as "one of the toughest guys on the field." With Doom returning next season, and Ayers likely at the other DE position, Hunter will likely come in on downs where there is likely going to be a running play, as Doom struggles in those situations. While he may slide down the depth chart, his play this season likely cemented him as a needed run stopping DE next season.
Spencer Larsen
|
Larsen |
||||||||||
|
Receiving |
Rushing |
|||||||||
|
Year |
Rec |
Yds |
AVG |
Lng |
TD |
Rush |
Yards |
YPC |
TD |
1st Downs |
|
2010 |
5 |
51 |
10.2 |
29 |
1 |
3 |
18 |
6 |
0 |
2 |
Larsen is one of the more interesting players in recent years. Being drafted in the 6th round at linebacker, he's played at linebacker, special team gunner and currently at fullback. Making his impact early on special teams made Larsen a popular player, but he never emerged as a reliable linebacker so he spent time on all three sides of the ball. In 2008, he became the first Bronco in club history and just the fourth player in the NFL since 1990 to start on both offense and defense in the same game during the Atlanta- Denver game in November at middle linebacker and fullback. Larsen's impact last season focused as he spent full-time duties at fullback, a position he played well. Out of all the Broncos backs, he proved to be the most reliable in terms of both pass and run blocking, and as he showed in his few touches of the ball, he had the ability to make some plays. In both the receiving and rushing game, he got the ball at the perfect time, rushing for two 1st downs and catching the ball for three more. Add that to his one touchdown, and of his eight touches, he had five 1st downs and a touchdown, pretty successful. So while not an obvious contributor this season as he spent most of the time blocking, his impact was felt.
Mario Haggan
|
Haggan |
|||||||
|
Year |
Sacks |
YdsL |
Int |
Yds |
Solo |
Ast |
Total |
|
2010 |
5 |
45 |
0 |
0 |
75 |
12 |
87 |
- 2nd on the Broncos in tackles.
- 2nd on the Broncos in sacks.
- 1st on the Broncos in yards lost forced.
- Tied for 1st on the Broncos in forced fumbles.
- 1st on the Broncos in quarterback hits.
- Tied for 1st on the Broncos in tackles for a loss with Jason Hunter.
- Made the All-PFF Team twice at Pro-Football-Focus in 2010.
- 1st among the Broncos linebackers in Estimated Points Added at Advanced NFL Stats.
- 2nd among all Bronco defenders in Win Probability Added at Advanced NFL Stats.
- 23rd ranked defender in the AFC in Win Probability Added at Advanced NFL Stats.
With a great linebacker like DJ Williams making a lot of noise, both good and bad, for the linebackers on the Broncos, Haggan often goes unnoticed. While a liability in the passing game, he was one of the most consistent pass rushers and run stoppers in the AFC. A solid presence wherever he lined up at, he rarely got beat, and was the team's leader in tackles for a loss and yards lost created, meaning he knows how to get behind the line. Now Haggan had his issues, but last season, he was one of the few reliable players in terms of the front seven, and when I went back and reviewed a few of his games, I knew that if someone ran towards Haggan's side, he'd hold the line. Haggan may be inside Williams shadow, but he made a big impact last season for a defense that lacked stability.
We need to remember this guys weren't superstars, but in whatever role they were asked to play, big or small, they did their part.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
53 comments
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14 recs |
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Comments
The first one was great
This one was as well, thanks and rec’d.
Orton, Tebow, Quinn, who cares as long as the Broncos win.
Still hoping
we can bring Bannan back.
What I am truly interested in is whether God had any choice in the creation of the world.
Albert Einstein
With a restructured contract
I sure wouldn’t complain.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Mar 13, 2011 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions
me neither
I hope it can get done because Marcus Thomas is probably going to leave as well. Great article Max – I loved it as much as the first. I voted for Haggan because he gives us the most bang for our buck. He might not be elite at anything, but hard work, determination, and leadership qualities are as underrated as the player himself.
My only problem with Haggan is he probably doesn’t figure into the new 4-3 too well. He could possibly play DE, but I’ve never seen a 270 lb., 4-3 LB.
"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."
"Gear down there big shifter This is the "No Bull" review man…" a total Lebowski-esque one liner from Sadaraine, whether he realizes it or not - comedic gold.
by PaleHorse78 on Mar 13, 2011 12:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks for your thoughts
I loved Haggan, but I do see his switch to the 4-3 as a slight issue. Fox is known as a system man, and finds places for players to play. And like you said, Haggan will never be a great player, but he’s a hard worker, solid linebacker, and knows how to play the game well. Haggan though will likely have more trouble transitioning then a guy like Hunter whose more familiar with the 4-3.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Mar 13, 2011 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions
agreed
but we have to remember, he did play DE in college, and something else we forgot to touch upon, Mario Haggan is a premier Special Teamer. When Bobby April, a Special Teams guru, was coaching in Buffalo, Mario Haggan was his ST maven and ST leader.
"When Tim Tebow does pushups, he's not pushing himself up, he's pushing the world down."
"Gear down there big shifter This is the "No Bull" review man…" a total Lebowski-esque one liner from Sadaraine, whether he realizes it or not - comedic gold.
Agreed
One thing I’m excited for next season is how Fox transitions to the 4-3, like McD managed to make some good uses with players like Doom when he changed tot he 3-4, I hope Fox can quickly convert to the 4-3.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
I was a Haggan voter too... I reckon Fox will find a place for a smart, motivated guy like him.
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 13, 2011 4:50 PM MDT up reply actions
hope so -- I like him
And the idea of putting him at DE as a 4-3 is intriguing, although I’m not sure what his pass rushing skills are like. Wasn’t he also a team captain?
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by broncosmontana on Mar 15, 2011 7:32 AM MDT up reply actions
Thanks for part 2
now for part 3. If there is enough good that could be constructed for a part 3
Haha possibly
But this was meant to look at underrated players rather then just those who were good. And while we did have some bright spots this season, there’s a reason we went 4-12.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Mar 13, 2011 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions
Gotcha
was a poor attempt at being funny LOL.
Good, reasonable post ,and rec'd
I want to see Bannan back on the team before another team will scoop him up (once the FA period begins.)
With DJ’s issues on and off the field, and Haggan’s history at MLB, he may be needed at Mike initially. Hopefully, that position can be adressed through the draft or FA, but he is not a long term answer at LB.
As far as the rest of the players mentioned here, I think they all deserve a shot to play at the same or similar position as last year. Hunter can be in the rotation at DE and Larsen deserves to remain the FB. He is a good blocker and with an improved line and some more zone running, even he could see more opportunities to carry the rock.
"All credibility, all good conscience, all evidence of truth come only from the senses." Friedrich Nietzsche
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"If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done." Wittgenstein
Thanks for your thoughts
I’d like to keep Haggan here, either at Mike or DE, either way, he’s a talent guy and Fox knows how to make the most of players he has. Hunter will likely split downs with Ayers and Doom, seeing as he’s better against the run but can still rush the passer. And I’d like to see Larsen back, especially for what he can, which is just about everything. While he’s not great at FB or LB, he’s good enough, and I’d rather not waste a draft pick on a FB when Larsen did a pretty good job last season.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Mar 13, 2011 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Larsen is still here and....
Hillis is gone. I can’t see Larsen making the 53 man roster next season especially as a FB. Hunter has great potential and Haggan is consistent and earned his spot on the roster.
oc60
"I'd rather have a lot of talent and a little experience than a lot of experience and a little talent."
" Adversity is Your Asset" "Make Greatness Attainable By All"
"The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team."
John Wooden
Larsen's versitility will earn him a spot next season
Either at LB, FB or on ST.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Mar 13, 2011 12:34 PM MDT up reply actions
First things first...
Nice article keep it coming.
I think thats what’s hurting Broncos most too much versatility and not enough skilled talent. Just finished watch several games on NFL Rewind and Larsen was horrible on too many blocking assignments seems he’s thinking too much and not playing at game speed. I think he might have a shot at LB but he’s no FB IMO.
oc60
"I'd rather have a lot of talent and a little experience than a lot of experience and a little talent."
" Adversity is Your Asset" "Make Greatness Attainable By All"
"The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team."
John Wooden
I agree.
He is a decent LB. I think the switch happened for two reasons, we had a lot of 3-4 LBs and had no FB at the time. He’s not very good though. Haggan gone (really no place for him in the 4-3) and Larsen MLB.
Bannon will get picked up by some other team.
If one cover CB is nice, two would surely be twice as nice.
You may be right
But according to ProFootballFocus, he was the 8th ranked FB in the AFC, we could do much worse.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Wow
with our running game??
Bringing you hopeful optimism and irreverent naivité, 24/7.
Once a diehard NFL fan, now a diehard CFL fan. GO STAMPS!
by broncosmontana on Mar 15, 2011 7:33 AM MDT up reply actions
It ranks players based on individual play
Rather then team results.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
it would have to
lol
Bringing you hopeful optimism and irreverent naivité, 24/7.
Once a diehard NFL fan, now a diehard CFL fan. GO STAMPS!
by broncosmontana on Mar 15, 2011 9:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Spot on OC60
I’ll be bummed if Larsen is our best FB timing, speed… Hunter’s upside is HUGE! Haggan seems a likely keeper, special teams and some solid insurance.
If a tree falls..
BTW more on Larsen...
Summary played 14 games started 9 in 2010. Rushed for 18 yds; caught 5 passes for 51 yds and 1 TD that is a complete summary of three full years, said another played in 34 games out of 48 during his career. A jack of all trades player should not be in the NFL IMO. Great potential just isn’t enough to keep him on the roster next season.
oc60
"I'd rather have a lot of talent and a little experience than a lot of experience and a little talent."
" Adversity is Your Asset" "Make Greatness Attainable By All"
"The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team."
John Wooden
Its not very fair
to frame his offensive stats with his 3 year career. We all know he played multiple roles, and we also know last year was the first time he was asked to contribute yards. IMO, he did admirably. Not to mention Larsen learned Josh McDaniels offense as a defensive player, that says a lot. He has shown the ability to consistently learn and grow, which means his ceiling has not been hit yet. I like those kind of guys around, the guys who will do anything to help the team. Not just because of loyalty, but because he has the ability to learn whatever they throw at him.
by droom on Mar 13, 2011 7:39 PM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
I really enjoy these things
I moved it to the front page so that I can find it easier. ;)
Regarding Larsen, I really hope we keep him at FB. I feel for the kid, because I think his heart was in the linebacking corps, but he has really grown into his role as a FB. I remember his rumbling catch where I think he got 44 yards (or thereabouts) about thirty of it on the ground, and he pounded a couple of DBs into the turf. Throwing him a bone like that should help him get his heart into the position. I think if he gets out of McD’s whacky pass-block-no-wait-I’m-actually-run-blocking-hah-fooled-you-its-a-pass-block scheme that he will blossom as a blocking FB. Most of his mistakes at the position were picking the wrong guy to block (though he also got plowed a few times, so his form of course can always use work), so a simpler system would suit him well.
Change your opinions, keep to your principles; change your leaves, keep intact your roots.
by Jeremy Bolander on Mar 13, 2011 2:38 PM MDT reply actions
Thanks Jeremy
About Larsen, he might get lost in the system next season, or he might rise to the occasion. While I do have some issues with how Fox coaches, my favorite thing about him is his ability to stick to his system and mold players to fit it. If Larsen were 30+, I would say he would be on his way out, but the fact he’s still young, versitile and willing means that Fox will find a place for him, either at LB, FB or back on ST, where he had some beastly plays as well.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Bannan was consistent all year
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He was among the people I looked at to include in this
And while for a rookie that was working with an ever changing line, he did well, he just had some many struggles, and so many issues, that while he had some very high points during the season, when I went and watched him play again, he played, well like a rookie. I think both him and Olsen should improve greatly next season, and I liked what I saw at times, it was just hard to truly say he was a bright spot. I would say I’m excited for his future, and if I did another one, I’d include him, but last season did have a lot of low points for Walton.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
I think the fact Bannan was cut
makes him the most underrated player. Reportedly, the FO wants to get back with him. I hope they’re serious
Interesting post, Max. Thanks.
-
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
No problem
Bannan wasn’t great, but he was the best lineman we had, I hope that if he takes a pay cut, he’ll come back.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
I don't like Haggan on here. He had a great game against KC (a lot of our players did) but he was one of the main reasons for our blowouts losses.
Haggan guessed wrong many times and when the front strung out the line he would have trouble reaching the outside. What really bothers me was his play against the raiders (second game i wanna say?). He made a lot of mistakes that led to some embarrassing losses. A lot of Mcfadden and Fords big runs could have been stopped by him. I can’t forgive him for that so I don’t agree with him being on here. To me he is a solid backup and good Special teamer.
Hunter had trouble setting the edge(49ers game especially) but for the most part he helped us. Our pass rush would have been nearly nonexistent without him.
Another interesting post Max, thanks... hard to think NFL right now.
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA
Agreed
I find myself totally disinterested in talking anything NFL.
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"They said I couldn't be a high school quarterback, they said I couldn't get a D1 scholarship. You're not good enough, you're not skilled enough. They said I couldn't win a heisman. They said I couldn't win a national championship. They said I wouldn't be a first round draft pick. They said I couldn't play in the league. Appreciate that." - Tim Tebow.
Do what i do
Put a calendar in front of you and change the date to October, download the 2008 Denver Vs. Patriots game, put it on a CD, pop it into your Blu-Ray and comment on MHR. It helps to some extent.
On the issue at hand, I picked Larsen, he has been very underrated considering he is 2 players for the price of one! I mean his LB skills are depth at best but still can’t beat his versatility. He saved us some money! Aside from wins money is something I consider important.
Any movement in history which attempts to perpetuate itself, becomes reactionary.
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by BosnianBronco on Mar 13, 2011 5:19 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA
by Whidbey Bronco on Mar 13, 2011 5:34 PM MDT up reply actions
Nice post Maxwell
From your list I’d have to say Haggan. I really feel bad for him though, as it was clear he was made for the 3-4 and he has to go back yet again to the 4-3 scheme where he struggles mightily.
Not on this list though I’d like to mention Kevin Vickerson. He was a consistent force who’s name got lost amid the last ranked D in the NFL talk. I expect him to be even better in the 4-3 too, and should be a Bronco for quite some time
If you reply to a comment/post/fanshot of mine, I will more likely then not respond to it, unless you come off like a d-bag.
by DBroncs1414 on Mar 13, 2011 5:25 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Vick was another player I was looking into
But he’s hardly been underrated considering his huge fan support, new contract among other things. I do think he was a bright spot for sure, and look forward to what he can do in the 4-3, but I just didn’t feel that he was ever underrated or underappreciated.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Mar 14, 2011 12:08 AM MDT up reply actions
Voted for Haggan
but was surprised to see that he was beating out Bannan. I thought he would be in the lead. Who was your vote for Max?
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"Leadership is like porn, you know it when you see it. In this case, Tebow is a pornstar."
-BroncoPH
I voted Hunter
I do feel Haggan was the best of the four, and that Bannan was a big impact guy, but Hunter was pretty much a nobody prior to this season, with only minor success with the Lions. His play when forced to step up to fill Doom’s role was impressive for a guy who went undrafted.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Mar 14, 2011 12:09 AM MDT up reply actions
Good point
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"Leadership is like porn, you know it when you see it. In this case, Tebow is a pornstar."
-BroncoPH
Great post!
I would love to see a another one of these with an eye to the future. Who of these guys you’ve brought into the spotlight here are ready to take the next step? Anyway, this one was a great read, as well as the one before. Good stuff man, and rec’d.
With this kind of support
I might have to keep a few optimistic posts coming, and I do think we have a lot of young talent, especially on offense, but we have a few great young defenders as well, especially Squid and Cox, if found innocent.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Mar 14, 2011 12:11 AM MDT up reply actions
Great post
I remember thinking during the win against the Chiefs last season, after Larsen had a bullocking run to pick up a first down, that maybe he could become a similar player to Kuhn at GB.
Julian from Australia
Hurray!
Happy to see this sequel! Very nice work, mwd. This stuff is a great antidote to the CBA funk we’re in. Thank you so much for your efforts!
Bringing you hopeful optimism and irreverent naivité, 24/7.
Once a diehard NFL fan, now a diehard CFL fan. GO STAMPS!
oh, and B.O.R.
That’s a big ol’ rec!
Bringing you hopeful optimism and irreverent naivité, 24/7.
Once a diehard NFL fan, now a diehard CFL fan. GO STAMPS!
by broncosmontana on Mar 15, 2011 7:36 AM MDT up reply actions
I have a hard time understanding why Spence isn't playing LB...
In 2007 Larsen was a First-team All-Pacific-10 Conference as a senior at Arizona after leading the conference with 131 tackles (87 solo) in 12 games (12 starts). He added four sacks, one interception, five pass breakups, four fumble recoveries and three forced fumbles. The year before, 2006, Larsen received Second-team All-Pacific-10 Conference honors as a junior after making 89 tackles (63 solo), two sacks (11 yds.) and one interception in 12 games (12 starts). He also had three pass breakups, three fumble recoveries and two forced fumbles. He was also First-team Academic All-Conference. In 2005 he saw action in eight games (6 starts) as a sophomore and totaled 51 tackles (29 solo), one sack, one pass breakup and one fumble recovery. He also received Second-team academic All-Conference recognition.
Hopefully
what they say about Fox is true and he will find a good place for him. We needed help badly on defense last year its a wonder we didnt play him especially with the stats you just posted
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
"Leadership is like porn, you know it when you see it. In this case, Tebow is a pornstar."
-BroncoPH













































