My 109 Word Draft Manifesto
After some brain crushing soul searching (3 beers, a nap, and watching some opening day baseball), I have distilled my draft thoughts into the simplest form.
I am a believer in using a draft board and a priority needs list as your roadmap. Otherwise, why even hire scouts. You must completely and unconditionally trust your scouts. If you don’t, you need new scouts. Duh.
I am also a believer in simplicity. A simple strategy, if well thought out, will provide you with a very strong sense of organizational direction and confidence.
Finally, there are two topics that I will discuss before getting into my 109 Word Draft Manifesto. The first is in regard to quarterbacks. While I believe that your primary focus should be building your team rather than chasing franchise quarterbacks, I can’t argue with proof.
In 2010, 9 of the 12 playoff teams had QBs drafted in rd 1* (both SB teams featured R1 QBs as well)
In 2009, 8 of the 12 playoff teams had QBs drafted in rd 1* (both SB teams featured R1 QBs as well*)
In 2008, 7 of the 12 playoff teams had QBs drafted in rd 1 (one SB team featured R1 a QB as well)
In 2007, 7 of the 12 playoff teams had QBs drafted in rd 1** (one SB team featured a R1 QB as well)
In 2006, 8 of the 12 playoff teams had QBs drafted in rd 1* (both SB teams featured R1 QBs as well)
Legend: * Drew Brees was the first pick of round 2 and I’m calling him a first rounder, so sue me ** the ’07 Redskins played 14 games with Jason Campbell as starter and made it to the playoffs largely with him under center
So, in the last 5 years, 39 of the 60 (or 65%) of the playoff teams had first round QBs starting for them. 8 of the 10 Super Bowl QBs (or 80%) were first round picks. And here’s the nail in the coffin: ALL FIVE QBs* of the past 5 Super Bowl winning teams were first round draft picks. That’s 100% for you math majors out there. You cannot argue with the proof.
Understanding that having an elite QB is the highest indicator of postseason appearances and success is very important. Quarterback is the most important thing. Period.
However, you can’t very well draft the best available QB in the first round on your team's draft board every year. That’s insane. And I don’t want to give Al Davis any ideas. The issue is that you’ll end up missing out on phenomenal players at other positions every time you do. So, my 109 Word Draft Manifesto is QB-centric, but it does include a qualifier. You shouldn’t draft a first round QB just because other teams think that a particular QB is a first round talent. You should draft a QB in the first round if an available QB is probably better than any QB you have on your roster. Yes, this generally goes against Ted Thompson’s idea of drafting Aaron Rodgers. But there are variables in every situation. Thompson felt as though Rodgers was too good to pass up and that Favre only had a few years left. So he made a move. Although it was risky, it worked. That’s not normal either. That’s the exception to the rule. I am not saying the 109 Word Draft Manifesto (109WDM) can’t be tweaked and changed year to year, because it can, but I think that it is a good baseline.
The second topic that needs some color before diving into my 109WDM is the concept of Best Player Available. BPA is a pretty huge discussion topic, as is BPA’s cousin, Need. Ozzie Newsome has long contended that his strategy is almost always to take the best player available. And he's tough to argue with. He has a great track record. But there is no right or wrong. And they (BPA vs Need) are not mutually exclusive strategies that teams employ. A team might draft for need in round 1 and go BPA in round 2 for whatever reason. What I tried to do is give a very high value to the BPA but use a measuring tool for whether or not to draft for need or not based upon a team’s completed draft board. Each one of us (draftniks, dorks, nerds, die-hards, Broncomaniacs, idiots, etc) that cares about the draft and has a favorite team has some sort of mental draftboard. But it’s probably messier than the cover of my Pee Chee folder in 5th grade (if you don’t know what a Pee Chee folder is, you missed out on an epic canvass for doodling during Social Studies).
But every NFL team has a perfectly drawn up and detailed draft board (Jimmy Jones concurs). Essentially, it lists every player available in the draft ranked by who is best. When I refer to a draft board, that’s precisely what I am referring to. I am NOT referring to a board broken down by positions. Although teams likely have some iteration of a positional draft board, that’s not the ‘big board’ that the teams use to determine BPA. Also, a team must have a priority list of positional needs going into the draft. This becomes important to the qualifier of whether or not to draft the BPA. Using the needs list and and a BPA big board would produce the best results.
At last, I hope this gives you some fodder for a longer conversation about draft strategy. If you have questions for me or simply want to tar and feather my strategy, then let me have it.
Full disclosure, I wanted the Broncos to draft Freddie Mitchell back in 2001. We took Willie Middlebrooks. Both of those players were horrendous. Especially when you realize Reggie Wayne, Drew Brees, Kyle Vanden Bosch, Ochocinco, Kris Jenkins, and Matt Light were all available. Also, I would have bet my mortgage that Denver was going to draft DeSean Jackson in the 2nd round of 2008. But we took Eddie Royal instead (I’d take D-Jax 100 out of 100 times over Eddie, bless his taco hawking soul). Last year, I wanted Dez over Demaryious (I’d still take Dez over D.T. – wardrobe problems and all) and I kinda sorta called the Tebow pick. Beyond that, my credentials to teach draft class aren’t dissimilar to every actor’s credentials to blather on about politics whenever somebody shoves a hot microphone up their nose.
Yes – it’s oversimplified. I mean, it doesn't account for a QB that will be available in a later round. And no – I don’t actually think John Fox or Brian Xanders will find this and email me and offer me a spot in the war room because of my elegant thought process. Of course Elway wouldn’t call me ‘Beautiful Mind’ when he met me. But I can dream.
Here it is – my 109 Word Draft Manifesto:
Is there a QB in this draft that’s PROBABLY better than any QB you have on your roster?
If yes – will he be available with your first round pick?
If yes – draft him
If no – who is the best player available?
Does that player fill one of your biggest 2 needs?
If yes – draft him
If no – is there a player at your biggest need still available that's within 2 places of the BPA on your draft board?
If yes – draft the player at the position you need most (if the player is within only 2 places of the BPA on your draft board)
If no – Take the BPA
Applying the manifesto for this year would yield a first round selection of Nick Fairley, but that's only because I have Fairley as my #2 player in the draft (Peterson's #1). Most of you would end up with Dareus or Miller or a QB if you think Gabbert or Cam (and his arrogant smile) Newton is probably better than Tebow or Orton. As you can see - I would rather have Tebow or Orton than any of the QBs in the draft. In fact, I like Locker best, but only in the second round. And I don't expect him to last that long.
The results from the manifesto are somewhat predictable. Teams at the top of the draft will mostly end up drafting for need. At the end of round 1 and continuously increasing through the end of the draft, teams will begin drafting BPA more and more as the draft moves along
My needs list:
DT
LB
OL
S
RB
My top 5 players in the draft (big board):
Peterson
Fairley
Dareus
Miller
Bowers
As you can see, my top 5 list probably looks nothing like yours...
As a parting shot - just remember - love the pick or not - Tebow WAS a 1st rounder....
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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I know!
Maybe he’ll be on that list next year or in 2 years.
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Teebz
is easily one of the easiest Broncos to root for. Hey, I get it that some people hated the draft pick, but he’s pretty darn easy to like.
Who knows what he’ll become – other than polarizing for the next few years, but it’ll be interesting to see what happens.
I was listening to the radio today and Steve Sarkisian (UW Coach) was asked about how Locker compares to Palmer, Sanchez, etc all – especially as it relates to fundamentals – because the SC guys (Cassell, Leinart, Palmer, Sanchez, and more) were all coached since 8th grade by some guy on their fundamentals and Sarkisian (who was their QBs coach and then their OC) got them basically pro ready. They’d all been groomed to play NFL football since junior high.
He said that Locker is basically a sophomore coming out early (Sark has only coached him for 2 years) and that if he has 4 years with Locker, Locker would be a higherpick – he just wasn’t as polished as the other guys but he got up to speed really quickly!
That got me thinknning about Tebow. If he’d have had a guy like the guru dude that coached Palmer and dirty Sanchez in 8th grade, who knows. Maybe he’d throw like Marino and satnd in the pocket like Brady. But then I started thinkning about whether or not that would have killed everything Tebow brings to the game. The physical stuff and the funky motion and everything.
Interesting topic for sure. but I digress…
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Very nicely done Super
A great mix of both and a pleasure to read.
What if the player thats BPA doesnt fit your scheme? Huh? HUH??? lol just bustin your chops. It would be interesting to see how this would play out in a community mock.
Bleed(ing out) the Orange and Blue
by WhyBroncosWhy? on Mar 31, 2011 10:19 PM MDT reply actions
then you don't have him on your big board!
Can’t use him? Screw him. Somebody else can have him. Your big board is YOUR big board. Forget Kiper, McShay, Ozzie Newsome, everyone. You are the judge of your list.
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Oh. So then
Why is Peterson on your big board? ; )
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by WhyBroncosWhy? on Mar 31, 2011 10:33 PM MDT up reply actions
cuz he fits the scheme
I feel like most teams draft a CB every year. And he’s a stud. I’m talking about a team that runs a 4-3 not having any nose tackles on their big board. Everyone can use a CB.
What if Denver traded down and Fairley and Dareus and Miller were gone and now I’m looking at Peterson, Bowers, and AJ Green. Peterson’s on my board and a I don’t have a need 2 spots down. I take Peterson.
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I agree he's a stud
and I think he’ll be good. But you’re drafting a cb really high when he’s gonna be playing mostly zone coverage. Where the front four is the core of the d. In Foxy’s system I mean. Sure he’s great, but we can’t utilize his strengths, and zone is definitely not his strength. So…….. I’d go bowers or quinn. They can rotate in and out and be beastly in combo with Ayers and Dumervil. Unless scheme changed. Turning a relative unknown into a strength on (paper at least).
Bleed(ing out) the Orange and Blue
by WhyBroncosWhy? on Mar 31, 2011 10:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Hey I don't completely disagree - that's a good ?
Bowers, Peterson, and Quinn are available. What do you do… I take Peterson. He is MY best player available overall. Denver has 2 DEs that are relatively young – not saying Bowers isn’t good, I’m just saying he’s a BPA pick too. Quinn’s a need pick, but Quinn is one notch further down. Maybe you tweak the ‘2 spots lower’ to 3 spots lower. Just depends on how you’d wanna do it.
Maybe the manifesto wouldn’t ever get adopted by a team because of scenarios just like the one you presented – but I like the idea of draft logic that forces teams to take BPA more often. Denver hasn’t been a good BPA team and it’s really hurt their overall talent level.
In the end, this is me thinkning out loud about a way to take more talent but still have some built in rule that still allows me to draft for need too.
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and also...
I couldn’t draft a first rounder as a rotational player. Couldn’t do it.
And maybe you just taught me something about Peterson and Fox’s scheme I hadn’t thought about….
Good work.
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Hmm
well if it’s BPA your’e almost bound to be drafting rotational players- The BPA might be a at rb where a timeshare is needed. Or dt, de, cb, ect. In fact, it’s my opinion that rotation is actually better. It allows you players to get a breather and put fresh legs in frequently. I love what they do in NY (Giants) with their de’s. Tuck, Umenyiora (SP?) kiwanuka (sp?) and pierre- paul all rotate in and out and generate a pass rush. So maybe we differ on that particular philosophy in which case, we’ll never see eye to eye lol.
Bleed(ing out) the Orange and Blue
by WhyBroncosWhy? on Apr 1, 2011 5:31 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree with all of that pretty much
What’s your feeling on Quinn, though? I always feel weird saying “my Big Board” because I feel like it sounds a little pompous, as if I’m pretending to be somebody who actually has a “Big Board”, or that if I did, that people would care how I order them as if I’m Mel Kiper or something. That said, Quinn is down on my board. His sacks came in bunches and against inferior talent. And that, to me, is more than just a line. I mean his sacks really, really came against bad teams and in groups. And he’s had a year off. I don’t think I’d touch him in the top-ten, personally. Even if he turns out to be great (and he does have an elite first step and explosion), it’s not likely to be right away, not like you would expect from a top-five pick.
We have a starting QB and two recent first-round QBs all three on the roster; Now we're gonna reach for another 1st round QB.. a year after spending a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick on a QB. Yeah, you betcha.
I was thinking abt Quinn the aother day
People keep saying “if he had played last year, he’d have been a top 5 pick”. But he didn’t. If Locker has come out last year the Rams might have taken him. Good thing for the Rams!
Quinn might be really good, but these young guys go through incredible physical changes year to year. Who knows how Quinn stacks up versus top level opponents. Too tough for me to say.
“Big Board” is TOTALLY pompous!
Love it though.
Good discussion…
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I love Bowers more
Haven’t gotten to see Quinn play at all, so I go pretty much on the consensus that he’s a smaller Demarcus Ware type player (I think).
Personally I would take Bowers from the scenario above, but I would also be the guy to gamble on Fairley and Aldon Smith. I firmly believe we should take Fairley if he’s available because I want the guy with the higher ceiling. This goes for Aldon, Bowers, and My main man Fairley.
It should be the coaches responsibility to get these players going, and that’s something Foxy does rather well- he gets the best out of his players ( heck he went to a SB with Jake Delhomme at QB)
So gimme the ceiling baby!! I want to watch an exciting team not a team full of choirboys who follow the rules and never reach the top. I want our D to be mean, hit hard, and say @#$% you thank you very much after they blow up a play. But, that’s just me. And why I’m probably not an NFL GM. :)
Bleed(ing out) the Orange and Blue
by WhyBroncosWhy? on Apr 1, 2011 5:38 AM MDT up reply actions
YES!
Agree. I love Fairley partly bc of ceiling and partly bc of nastiness. You can’t convince me that Dareus is more valuable than Fairley. I have Fairley as the 2nd best player available in the draft and the #1 guy Denver should draft. Its silly that Fairley has ‘fallen’. He hasn’t done anything but prove that he’s lean, strong, and versatile. Here’s my question: If Fairley weighed in at 305, would be be the consensus #1 overall guy? Maybe – forget the measurables. Fairley is a beast – and at the end of the NC2A season, he was the best player out there and I personally thnk he still is. Thing is, Fairley can move all over the field. He can play DT when Ayers & Doom are out there or he can move to DE in a beefy set. He’s scheme and position versatile and will show up big in big spots. His TFL stats are redonkulous.
I actually really like Bowers too. The issue, beyond his knee, is that he’s not as scheme versatile bc of his size and that Denver has Doom and Ayers. Now, I haven’t thought through it all the way yet, but if Dareus and Fairley were gone, taking into account what you said about Peterson (and you’re right by the way) – I think I’d want Bowers. Personally, Bowers is an immedate DE upgrade for Denver over Ayers. On running downs, Ayers and Bowers could be the DEs and Doom can satnd on the sideline. Doom racks up sacks on 1st & 10, 2nd & long, and 3rd and long. Everything else though, and Doom is a liability.
Good stuff WBW?
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You're getting me to think about the rotation
Damn you!
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;)
I guess we’re the FAIRLEY bros? Oh yes. That just happened. And I attribute the rotational idea to Rodney. He got me thinking it in one of his posts. Damn him not me…. lol
Bleed(ing out) the Orange and Blue
by WhyBroncosWhy? on Apr 1, 2011 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions
I like Fairley more than others
But I’m not ready to cut my thumb and shake hands with you other Fairley blood brothers lol I do like him, but I prefer a couple others over him. With that first pick, we can’t afford to miss. Fairley is a stud, but Fairley is a risk.
Bowers sounds like he had a bad pro-day. Interesting. I’ll move back into the teens in my Live Mock Draft later today if Bowers is still there. I could see a lingering and late injury dropping his stock some, but this guy is elite. I think it would be a mistake for teams to let him drop that far just because he’s not 100% yet.
We have a starting QB and two recent first-round QBs all three on the roster; Now we're gonna reach for another 1st round QB.. a year after spending a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick on a QB. Yeah, you betcha.
HAHA
Come on Brahdney? You know in your heart your one of us. BB4L- blood bros for life yo. I don’t want to settle for decent. And when I watch Dareus I see decent. He’ll be good. Like a player that is consistent and productive their whole careers but never considered eite. I want to chance it and strike lightning in a bottle. His upside is huge! Pair him with doom and ayers and one other dt and you’re lookin at a stud front 4.
Bleed(ing out) the Orange and Blue
by WhyBroncosWhy? on Apr 1, 2011 1:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Why do folks keep insisting we will be mostly playing zone?
Sure, Fox played some Tampa-2 for a few years, but he’s not a “Tampa-2 guy” like Dungy, etc…. he’s always been very flexible matching scheme to his talent, and has also been big on delegating scheme responsibility to his coordinators.
In addition, our DC comes from NOLA, where they played a huge amount of cover-1 MAN coverage in a very blitz-whacky scheme (which also happens to fit our current DB defensive talent much better than a tampa-2 does).
basically, I’ll believe we’re switching to a conservative zone DEF when I see it. I just don’t think it will happen with the resigning of Champ, and absolutely not if we take Peterson.
Fox himself has said he'll major in zone coverage
It’s not going to be a major majority, but we’ll run zone more than man and more than in the past.
Even in zone, you need one single solid to great corner to put on an island or else you can’t feel comfortable blitzing as much.
As for Allen, I know I’m in the minority and that this isn’t popular to say, but he’s a young, first time DC. He’ll do what he’s told to do and not much more, IMO. John Fox will run this defense. Allen might get some say in having an aggressive secondary or talk Fox into blitzing more here and there, but by-and-large, Fox won’t change his stripes, and Allen will be his puppet.
We have a starting QB and two recent first-round QBs all three on the roster; Now we're gonna reach for another 1st round QB.. a year after spending a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick on a QB. Yeah, you betcha.
"Fox won't change his stripes"...
… is kinda what I disagree with… Fox has changed his stripes repeatedly the past 10 years. So what won’t he change?
Early 2000s, he ran a very traditional 4-3 DEF. Mid-decade, he ran a Tampa-2. Last few years, he was back to a more traditional 4-3, with more blitzing (though not whacky like NOLA).
He’s had good man coverage corners too… Gamble and Marshall are both good in man coverage, and Herdon wasn’t horrible. He mixes and matches coverages, and will play both man and zone, even if it is a lot, or more zone (in fact, every team, including blitz whacky NOLA plays a lot of zone). As you say, having a stud CB that can hang out on an island helps regardless of scheme (Revis rarely plays straight man, instead taking a big mid-zone island).
Therefore claiming a “man-coverage” corner like PP would be a waste I just think is a dumb argument. That is only true if you think we’re playing a very conservative Tampa-2, with 3 deep players 90+% of the time… only the Bears, Colts, and Tampa have done anything close to that the past 3 years, and the Bears and Colts both have transitioned away from it substantially as well with LBs playing very close to the line (watch Urlacher last year compared to mid-decade where he lines up, and Coyer blitzed much more in 2010 than Dungy did previous years).
We may not be a Mike Williams/Jim Johnson/Coyer blitz-whacky 4-3, but we won’t be a Tampa-2 either.
I'll defer to your knowledge of Foxy's schemes way back that far
I don’t think we need Peterson, not because of zone coverage (his weakness), but because we already have Andre Goodman, but no SAM, no starting DTs, TE, etc..
I do expect Fox to play a lot of zone, but with our two solid corners, I agree that he’ll play to their strengths and probably play in Man more often than he has in the past.
We have a starting QB and two recent first-round QBs all three on the roster; Now we're gonna reach for another 1st round QB.. a year after spending a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick on a QB. Yeah, you betcha.
I think we need to look beyond 2011
Goody maybe okay for now… but by 2013, when the 2011 draftees are hitting their stride, we’ll be in a big hurt if we don’t deal with CB by then.
Same can be said for lots of other positions on DEF too, so that doesn’t mean I’m advocating for drafting PP… I want BPA on defense, whoever the coaches think that is.
Whoever we draft is likely to suck in 2011 (rookies rarely are great), so its not like grabbing someone is going to fix our problems for 2011 anyway… we need to fix the problems projected in 2012 and 2013, and that means our needs include CB.
I see it differently
When I look at 3-5 similarly elite players at the top of the draft, I say fill a hole without blinking or looking back.
As to Peterson, I don’t think his lesser early impact could ever be made up for. Others do. I’m no math major, but I guess the easiest way to explain it is in numbers. Say for example that Goodman currently ranks as a 14-banana corner. Say Peterson ranks as a 16-banana corner for his first year, 18 his 2nd year and 20 for his next two years. That’s 18 bananas worth of upgrade we get from Peterson over the course of his four year contract.
Now say Dareus/Fairley/Miller are each graded at 7.964 apples. The guy they’re upgrading is valued at zero apples because he doesn’t exist. It’s an open seat. That’s 32 apples worth of upgrade over the course of a four year contract.
Obviously I used different grading systems for each and the reason is because I don’t want to get too wrapped up in how they’re graded or who is better. The idea is that even if Peterson is better than Dareus from years 2-4, it still wouldn’t make up for the value in upgrade we lose over the first couple years.
We have a starting QB and two recent first-round QBs all three on the roster; Now we're gonna reach for another 1st round QB.. a year after spending a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick on a QB. Yeah, you betcha.
haha
idk why that was funny. but the doesn’’t exist part made me chuckle
Bleed(ing out) the Orange and Blue
by WhyBroncosWhy? on Apr 1, 2011 3:28 PM MDT up reply actions
but the other position is not a zero... thats a false assumption on your part
We’ll grab a FA who will STILL be likely better than whatever DL-man we draft… the positions simply don’t produce in year 1. And the total “banana value” is dependent on the comparative options in those future years…. so lets say in year 1 he’s a “12 banana” value, but the “replacement value” is 10 bananas, and “probowl” is 18 bananas… so he may only worth 2 bananas in year 1, but is providing 10 every year past year 3…
In contrast, replacement value on DL may be 5 apples, and probowl a 9… and the lessor prospect tops out at a 9… but we only have a “3” in year 1 because we REALLY suck and can’t even get “average” play… so we get 2 extra apples over “replacement” in year 1, but forgo an extra 2 fruits per year compared to PP because we drafted for immediate need rather than long-term. I say take the HOFer/Allpro over the probowler every time, even if the reurn is lower in year 1.
Plus, given our difficulty covering TEs and #3 WRs last year, having a good big nickel like PP could be a huge IMMEDIATE improvement.
Both CB and DL play in rotation anyway, so its not like we get zero value in 2010 from a CB or DL… all will be some fraction of a “full-time starter”value… and all will likely relatively suck as a rookie.
Now again I’m not saying PP is the obvious choice… but I don’t think he is obviously NOT the choice either. I think if the coaches think he’s the best player of the bunch, there is enough gray area in our need longer-term that he’s easily justifiable. Draft choices are not 1 year investments… especially because rookies at any position but RB tend to suck. If everything is equal, sure, take the D-lineman… but don’t pass up the top prospect simply because he isn’t likely to start in year 1.
oops... not Herdon, I meant Lucas
I always get those guys mixed up (along with Gary Baxter for some reason)… Herdon left Denver to replace Lucas when Lucas left Seattle to go to Carolina….
Great post, deserves up top... here's one..
We have a starting QB and two recent first-round QBs all three on the roster; Now we're gonna reach for another 1st round QB.. a year after spending a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick on a QB. Yeah, you betcha.
Thanks Rodney!
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There are holes in the manifesto
lemme know if you can think of some too!
Maybe I’ll make ammendments as they come up….
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The only one that came to mind while I was reading
was… what if you don’t know if one of those QBs is better than the one you have. In our situation, I can firmly say I’d stand by Tebow today and until he’s given a chance to show us what he is. But today, he’s only potential. I can’t say he’s better or worse than Gabbert/newton. So I’m not sure where you put in the “maybe” clause
We have a starting QB and two recent first-round QBs all three on the roster; Now we're gonna reach for another 1st round QB.. a year after spending a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick on a QB. Yeah, you betcha.
thought about that too
I guess you could say it a different way:
Is Gabbert or Newton any more of a sure thing than Tebow?
One word answer (FOR ME): No.
If Luck was in the draft, my answer would be different – Yes – I take Luck if I can.
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I can't really comment on Luck
But I like the new wording. I’m glad we’re in the draft we’re in. I’m glad we get to rebuild the defense without giving up on Tebow. We don’t know what we have, which means we need to play him.
Tebow is unlike other QBs in that you just can’t evaluate him in practice fully. It’s not until the lights come on and the feet start moving that we’ll see how many plays and how many points he’ll truly be able to deliver whenever needed. He’s got to play or we’ll never know. And that starts in September with Orton in Minnesota, IMO.
We have a starting QB and two recent first-round QBs all three on the roster; Now we're gonna reach for another 1st round QB.. a year after spending a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick on a QB. Yeah, you betcha.
Rodney A: A Mocking The Draft question for you.
I understand that you are the Broncos rep for the Live draft tonight.
I am the Lions owner. Would you be interested in trading back up into the first round?
I was thinking of my # 13 for your two second round picks [# 36 and # 46] and your 2012 third round pick [to even off the trade value as per Trade Value Charts].
I know you are trying to trade down from # 3, but I thought if you are unsuccessful you might want two impact players on defence.
Good hunting tonight.
"I read one article, I said, 'This guy doesn't know what he's talking about,' " Mayhew said. "Then I read another one, and I thought, 'Wait a minute, they're all saying the same thing.' -Martin Mayhew 2011 regarding Draft Gurus.
Hey there and thanks for the offer
How is it again that the Broncos are drafting higher than the Lions? Seems like oppositeville to me lol
Haha just joking. I’ve already traded back into the first round. Thanks for the offer, but I already own the #2 and #27 plus a 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder and 5th rounder.
We have a starting QB and two recent first-round QBs all three on the roster; Now we're gonna reach for another 1st round QB.. a year after spending a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick on a QB. Yeah, you betcha.
Oh, btw
It seems very unlikely but there’s a chance I would move into the teens if the right guy is there. Hit me back with an offer of what that would take from the #27 please.
We have a starting QB and two recent first-round QBs all three on the roster; Now we're gonna reach for another 1st round QB.. a year after spending a 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick on a QB. Yeah, you betcha.
great read man....i wanted Jarvis Moss bad
If i could have any job on earth it would be a GM for an NFL team. The chess match with 31 other groups of people, thinking years down the road would be a blast, and draft day in the war room, taking and making calls…..what a rush! I’d give almost anything just to hang out with EFX for the next month.
If i was the boss, we’d go Dareus at 2, 3, 4, or 5. Best front 4 player at 36. Mason Foster (mlb) at 46. BPA from there on out. I cant think of any player that would prevent me from going front 7 with our first 3 picks, BPA or not.
Thanks for the read.
luckily im a bronco and a blazer fan
I tend to agree
on all fronts
1- its my dream job too
2- I would likely end up front 7 all day.
Denver’s front is going to look like one of those remodled houses on Extreme home makeover in a year or two. maybe we can get that dude to come to the game and yell ‘move that truck’ right before our first game.
I’m excited to have Defensive coach. Denver has needed balance (in the front office and in regard to team personailty) for about 6 or 7 years, IMO.
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that whole draft year was awful
I wanted him or Okoye. Yikes.
I can say that I wanted Orakpo over Knoshown. I was floored by that pick. And I thought Ayers was a reach when we took him too. I wanted Clay Matthews BAD with that 2nd 1st rounder. Orakpo AND MAtthews AND Doom. Oof – what a handful.
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That would be a fun post: Who did you want to draft?
There would be some selective memory i bet.
Seems like everyone, including myself, knew Stephen Jackson woud be a stud. I remember Philly traded up right in front of us and i thought they were going to snatch him up right under our noses. But then they took the Olineman Andrews outta Ark. if memory serves, and Jackson was all ours! DO IT MIKE, DO IT MIKE……nope an slightly above average LB instead.
luckily im a bronco and a blazer fan
It would require a lot of honesty. Like saying you wanted Jonathan Stewart or Chris Williams over Clady in 2008. It’s easy to say you did want Orakpo over Moreno (me too) or Matthews over Ayers (I wanted Harvin), but folks need to call out their busts as well.
ConradA to me "You should actually watch a Broncos game from a critical point of view. Put away the orange and blue glasses for a game and watch." Maybe I'll try that sometime Conrad, but I'm not sure I'm ready for that just yet.
I wanted Reggie Nelson back at the 2007 draft. He was the ball hawking safety we haven’t had since Abraham Lincoln was President.
My draft would be Darues at #2 because he is two years younger than Fairley. As he fills out as a player and human, he’s got more upside than Nick. I love watching Fairley, but I’m scared of his bust potential. Of all the guys in consideration to be top 10 picks, Fairley has the most bust potential of any defender due to his age, one year wonder status and maturity issues. Newton has the most bust potential period.
Dareus, Peterson and even Von Miller are the safer picks. Denver can’t afford to draft a Gaines Adams or Tyson Jackson with this pick.
ConradA to me "You should actually watch a Broncos game from a critical point of view. Put away the orange and blue glasses for a game and watch." Maybe I'll try that sometime Conrad, but I'm not sure I'm ready for that just yet.
Nelson was my guy too
and early in his career, he looked like he as developing into a stud… then the wheels fell off.
While I disagree with some aspects of the post
I do agree with your manifesto and feel the best way to draft is a mixture of BPA and need. Nice work overall and this is rec worthy just for reminding me of the folder I used back in grade school.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Totally
The post isn’t meant to be taken all that seriously. I had just gotten to thinkning of a super basic approach and this is what my brain churned out.
In real life, there’s no way to say who you’ll take without knowing all of the variables in advance. I know that, I just think that as a general strategy that QB should carry the most weight and if your QB situation is solved or wouldn’t likely be improved with a round 1 QB, then you should consider need and BPA but don’t reach too much. Its a delicate dance but some teams definitely do a better job of this than others (Denver).
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Bring back the Pee-Chee's!
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
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Rec
My list is identical, as are my thoughts on draft strategy… not that I thought it out in as much detail, but your logic tree makes alot of sense to me.
You can be dumb... that's ok! There are many dumb people.
You can be an %&*hole... that's ok! There are many of these as well.
Unfortunately you cannot be both...
Ok... prove me wrong.
Easy fix to the manifesto to deal with things like rodgers vs. farve, TT drafted last year, etc.
Change it to:
Is there a QB in this draft that’s PROBABLY better than any QB you will have on your roster IN TWO YEARS?
This applies to your need analysis as well. Basically, you want to draft guys that have a good chance to be a starter in year 3 with any pick in rounds 1-3. Later rounds you can draft to fill specific roles (backups, ST, etc.)
In general, I’m against drafting rookies to fill immediate needs… rookies tend to suck, even when they end up eventually being good (RB maybe only exception). But if you’re always drafting thinking 2 to 3 years out, you’ll be grabbing guys to fill both current holes, and the future holes (before they become actual holes that sink your team).
So because we have TT, who IN TWO YEARS has the potential to be as good as any QB in this draft, we shouldn’t draft a QB (unless its a late round flyer on a backup). Similarly, for WR or LT (Clady) or interior Oline where we have some great young potential to develop. On DEF, there isn’t a position that is set long-term with perhaps the exception of Doom at rush end/LB.
So you want PP at #2?
You can be dumb... that's ok! There are many dumb people.
You can be an %&*hole... that's ok! There are many of these as well.
Unfortunately you cannot be both...
Ok... prove me wrong.
Don't know if I WANT him, but would be fine with him
I want BPA at #2 (defensive), so whoever the team thinks that is, i’m fine with it. That could be any of the 4-5 top DEF guys…. I won’t complain about any of them, as I’m not an expert enough to tell the nuances between them.
Fairley and Bowers have the biggest “warning flags” for me, but their potential could outweigh (Fairley in particular)
Dareaus, PP and Miller seem to be more “sure things”, but may have lower ceilings, worse fits, or be lessor needs.
The DTs seem to have greater depth for future picks, but if there is a unstoppable stud d-lineman, they’ll make worse DBs/LBs look better
Basically, that is for the coaches/scouts to decide who is BPA. To me, they are all substantially equal, so trading back a few spots and grabbing whoever is left seems like a great idea, but again, if one or 2 guys “rise above” in the eyes of the scouts, who am I to disagree.
I'm behind all your draft manifesto thoughts
and the reasoning in some of the comments made about evaluating whether or not your team should take a QB (or any position really) with a high draft pick. Obviously the majority of Bronco fans feel Tebow has a high ceiling and so we should not consider a QB this year even though we have a very high pick in which to get a franchise QB. This being the case, it has been widely recommended we use our high pick to trade down, acquire more picks and still get a good defensive draft pick. To trade down, we need someone who wants to trade up. This usually only happens when the team needs a franchise QB. Duh, we all know all this. My point is I wish people would use your manifesto for determining which teams are in need of drafting a franchise QB and which teams are in need of a stopgap, veteran QB (Orton).
A little nasty on defense would be nice.
always a great read Super
I rec’d it though I have a question about the actual manifesto:
…Does that player fill one of your biggest 2 needs?…
…If no – is there a player at your biggest need still available that’s within 2 places of the BPA on your draft board?…
Is there a logic behind 2 being a limiting factor in either of these situations? Or is it arbitrary? Of course, you might guess that I prefer a logical base for such a distinction… It was reading fine until I hit that section and “there be dragons” popped into my head at that point. If the 2 is arbitrary and can’t be grounded solidly, then what effect does that have across the manifesto? What if a “good gut feeling” comes up with the #3 guy? What if they grade out very closely? I know you aren’t really suggesting using the manifesto like a cpu, letting it make all the decisions, but I just wonder if the part about top 2 needs or within 2 players of BPA can just be removed altogether….
Change your opinions, keep to your principles; change your leaves, keep intact your roots.
i struggles with this
my final though process ended up being this:
2 places is good for the first round and maybe that number increases a spot or two per round. If you run through a mock in your head (or on paper) and you feel like you are getting a good gut feeling froma guy 3 spots away, then your big board need to refelect that. This type of ‘manifesto’ ends up making your big board more honest.
The way I figure, especially in the top of round 1 (first 20 picks or so) that there will almost always be a need player available w/i 2 spots if your big board corresponds to who you actually like best. As the darft goes on, the BPA players taken will eventually increase as your needs decrease.
Does this make any sense?
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NFL scouts have a thoughtless job at least with the average fan...
Yet, they are directly responsible for a teams success or failures most of the time. Not only do they have to recognize talent when they see it, but they have to know exactly what type of player the team needs or wants…The Broncos have an golden opportunity to grab an elite player for need with the #2 pick if we chose to stay there. IMHO there are elite players at DT, DE, LB, CB/S and WR. Take your pick. I am in your court of thinking that we should take Fairley if he is available at #2 or the next BPA on our board, which may be between Bowers or Peterson.

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