2011 NFL Draft: John Elway, Brian Xanders And John Fox React To Denver Broncos Draft
The braintrust of the Denver Broncos - John Elway, Brian Xanders and head coach John Fox met with the media to put a bow on the 2011 NFL Draft. Here is was EFX had to say...
On how they feel after the draft
Elway: "It has been a great three days. We looked at the board and what we got out of this draft-I think we are really happy with it. I think we got guys that can come in and help us right away and also got some good depth and created some good competition. So, I personally am excited about it. I think one of the things that I am even more excited about is how the whole team worked. I think as far as the scouts as well as (General Manager) Brian (Xanders') team with personnel with (Director of College Scouting) Matt Russell and (Director of Pro Personnel) Keith Kidd-and (Head Coach) John (Fox), myself and Brian. I was really happy with the whole process. I really feel like we came out of it-we discussed a lot of different things and we all came out of it unanimous on who is going to be the next guy. It was a great process and I think it worked well. I am really proud of it-especially when you look at the guys that we got. We really feel like they can come in and help us, so for me, with this being my first draft, I feel very good coming out of it."
On why the team did not select any defensive tackles
Fox: "We came into it with a lot of needs and I think we were not going to fill them all in this process. I think typically in the National Football League, you have two means-one is college (draft) and the other is free agency. So, never in any year that I have been in the NFL have you accomplished meeting all your needs in just one of those pools. So, I think that we will have to address that moving forward in the next pool."
Xanders: "With the process that we had with the board, we really stuck to our grades and the best player available up on the board. We were not going to reach down below just because of the position that we had (a need). When we took linebackers, they were the best players for our system and for our team, instead of reaching."
On whether it was a coincidence that they drafted the positions which they did
Xanders: "I would say that at that time, those were the better players on our board. As it came down the defensive tackles in this draft were really taken in the first rounds."
On whether the team set out to draft linebackers
Xanders: "We think we are going to add competition at every position group and we are happy with those draft picks. We really think they can help our football team. So, we are going to have a plan for success for each one of these guys-including the tight ends, the linebackers and the safeties. We feel really good about those guys that we brought in."
Fox: "We are making a switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3. So, we need more speed at linebacker. One of the main criteria of this draft was to get faster on defense. That is something that we felt like was a deficiency and I think we accomplished that in a pretty big way."
On whether the team will look for running backs through free agency
Fox: "I think so, running back was an area that we wanted to build depth and we were not able to do that-much like the defensive tackle (position). I think we helped the tight ends, helped the (offensive) line, and helped the safety position. Again, we had a lot of holes and you cannot fill them all in just this draft."
Elway: "I think we had all of those defensive linemen, running backs-all the things we wanted to get, there was no doubt about it-but, the way the board fell for us, the last thing we wanted to do was not take what we felt like was the best player on the board at that time. We looked at the running backs and even the defensive linemen. Believe me, we looked hard at the defensive linemen the whole time until the last pick to see if there was somebody that we thought would come in and make our football team. So, it was really in comparing each player and talking about each player, but also, we wanted the best player, who at the time we thought would come in and make our team, and not just take a guy for that position because we needed one. But, we wanted to pick the best players that we thought could come in and help us and make the football team."
On why the team looked at quarterbacks before the draft but did not draft one
Elway: "We are going to look at all the quarterbacks again next year too, so you can count on that. We are going to look at them next year as we did this year and each year. We are going to look at every position. The thing is, when you are picking No. 2, and we have discussed this, is the fact that we had to see if that franchise guy was there. So, we had to do our homework there."
Xanders: "I think on that quarterback issue, every team in the league, including us-we are going to try to build the best board that we can at every position column so that when we are ready to pick-we might find a great gem in the later rounds, like other teams had with Tom Brady in the sixth (round). It is our job and our duty to the organization to do the best at every position group every year for the future."
On picking two safeties
Xanders: "I would say we are adding competition at those spots. (S) Darcel McBath had a really good rookie year. He led our team in special-teams tackles. He was a guy that was going to compete with (S) Renaldo Hill in the second year. He ended up having three major injuries last year, so his second year was not as good as he expected or we expected. We still see an upside in him, and (S) David Bruton was the best special teamer in the country at Notre Dame. He was a fourth rounder; he's a mismatch on the field at the NFL level as a core special teamer, so he is going to compete at safety also. To me, these two guys have a chance to compete against the guys ahead of them, and we're going to try to get the best defensive backfield we can out there."
On position concerns
Fox: "Like John (Elway) mentioned, we selected nine players because we think they're going to help us. At the safety position, going into our draft, those were two of the best three guys on our board. Talking to people around the league, they had them the same way. It's just the way it fell; John (Elway) mentioned it. This is the first year I can remember where the draft preceded free agency, so you could actually stay more true to your board than ever and not panic and draft for need. Typically when you draft for need, you're reaching and not staying true to your board. We felt like we stayed true to our board, and we think we've added depth to our football team like probably the other 31 teams in the league."
On their nine draft picks
Elway: "As I said before we started, there's kind of an equation that goes with each different player, obviously talent and his ability to play football. But there were other things that were involved in that equation, that they fit the Denver Broncos, not only as football players, but as people-their personal character, their football knowledge, and their football instincts. All those things came into play as far as trying to find the best football player for the Denver Broncos. I think the one thing- not only do we feel like we got great football players that really can come in and help us, but we got great people that are going to help this organization. To say that (character) wasn't a part of it is not true. There was no question that we looked at character hard and we wanted guys that could come in here and be great people in the community and also be great for the Denver Broncos."
On whether they were able to talk to potential college free agents earlier in the process
Xanders: "No, it was against the rules. Once we ended the draft, we got all the scouts and coaches in there and shook each others' hands. It was a great year of work for the scouts and so really, we are done. Once Mr. Irrelevant was picked, we are in that mode now with where we are at in the (labor situation)."
On the quarterback situation
Fox: "I think you still have to have a depth chart-we will have a depth chart in every position. I think it has been fairly well said that Kyle Orton is our starting quarterback. Just like every other position on the team, though, there will be competition."
On whether the Broncos drafted four starters with their first four picks
Fox: "Again, you don't really know that. It's like a recruiting class in college. Just like any draft prior to this, you don't really know until you start. Sometimes you don't even know in the first year, but I know they have that kind of ability, and I think at the end of the day, they'll decide that."
On TE Julius Thomas
Xanders: "(TE) Julius Thomas was the player at Portland State that played basketball for four years, and he tried out for football this year. He's a guys that's 6-5, 250 (pounds) who is very athletic and has very good ball skills from playing basketball. His athleticism in and out of breaks was great, and his football knowledge-Clancy Barone worked him out at Portland State, and he had very good football knowledge for a one-year player. He's got a big athletic upside, and if he can gain some weight and lift weights, he could be a 6-5, 260 (pound) guy that can run in a couple years here. We're excited about him."
Fox: "One of the other things, too, with Clancy Barone-he was part of the developmental process with (San Diego TE Antonio) Gates. When he was at San Diego, Clancy was there. We did do a private workout. Clancy was involved in that and was very impressed, and that was also part of that decision."
On TE Virgil Green
Xanders: "Virgil Green was the second tight end. He's in the same mold; he's a little bit shorter. He's 6-3, 245 (pounds), but he's very fast. He had a great combine; he had a 42-inch vertical. He's tough. He's physical. He has that athletic upside, and he may have some versatility."
On entering the draft without a fourth or fifth-round pick
Fox: "I think ‘hamstrung' is a hard word, but we didn't have the fourth and fifth-round picks. We did have the two seconds. If we had the fourth and fifth-round picks already, we might have been able to react differently. The reality was we wanted to get in position to gain a fourth and fifth-round pick, so our trading was more down to getting that than up. There were talks and discussions about going up for those two first-round picks, and it could have been an option. We might have gotten a defensive tackle had it fallen correctly, but we would not have had the fourth and fifth round picks. At our current development as far as injecting new talent into this team, we felt it better to get the extra picks."
On the report of possibly moving up to get DL Nick Fairly in the first round
Fox: "If he would have gotten to the right spot."
Elway: "It was talked about. We talked about if we had a chance with all those guys sliding and the quarterbacks going early with another dynamic defensive lineman. If they kept sliding we were talking about doing something to get up and get one of those top defensive tackles. We looked at it, and where they went we decided we were better off with our picks."
On his role in the War Room
Elway: "I think they used Brian (Xanders) and I against each other (laughing). I would ask for too much and then they would call Brian. It was great. Like I said earlier, I was really happy with how we worked together. I think that we had great discussion on everyone we picked. We really came to a consensus and we were on the same page. That is why I feel good about the guys that we got, not only as football players but character wise and what they are going to do for this organization. I will say this: Today was a long day. Four rounds in one day is a long day. Once you get through that seventh round it is a good feeling, a feeling of accomplishment."
On where he sees S Rahim Moore and S Quinton Carter
Fox: "I don't like really defining the players before they get here. If you were looking at it, generally speaking, you would probably say that (Rahim) Moore is probably more the free (safety) and (Quinton) Carter is more the strong (safety). I hate to pigeonhole them at this point; they will kind of define what they can do. They have some veteran guys to learn from and that will speed the process. We needed some youth there and we think we picked two very good ones."
On Brian Dawkins' future
Fox: "I don't think we have so many that it would affect Brian Dawkins, let me put it that way. I don't think this affects anybody. We will be the team we will be when we get to practice and they will do that. This is in no way jeopardizing our thoughts on any of the guys we have. We just needed some youth and depth and they were the best guys available."
On not being able to hold mini camps
Fox: "It would be more frustrating if it was just for us and everyone else got to do it. But at this time, everyone is operating under the same things. We will just evaluate our draft and look at things we can do better moving forward and wait and see what we decide to do."
On his advice to rookies
Fox: "It was really nice to have the opportunity to meet with them all. It was not the whole team but I have had the opportunity before to meet most of the guys and it has been different being in a football building with no football players. It has been a pretty fun day actually."
On LB Nate Irving
Xanders: "At ‘Mike' linebacker, the inside linebacker in this new 4-3, he was our No. 1 ‘Mike' linebacker. We are excited about him because his instincts are so good. He was a serious player who loved football. He had some off-the-chart numbers too; he had 44 tackles for loss. He is a very productive player and when we had him in here about two weeks ago you could just tell that he really loved football and was very serious about the game. When he met (Owner Pat) Mr. Bowlen about bringing back the Orange Crush, he had a big smile on his face and he enjoyed that."
Elway: "I think also in the position that he played and what we heard about him at North Carolina State, like what kind of leader he was and he was the guy directing traffic on their defense out there. We are hoping that he will come in here and compete for the job No. 1, but also be a leader on our team."
On looking for a leader at the MLB position
Xanders: "Like I said, we are sitting there in the top of the third (round) and he is the No. 1 ‘Mike' linebacker and we thought he was a great fit for the Broncos in the locker room, on the field, and in the community. Greek, our head trainer, signed off on his health and he is fully recovered and he had a great year last year. We are excited about him."
On OT Orlando Franklin
Xanders: "I went down to (the University of) Miami early last year on the road. He's a guy that stood out to me in practice. They had these early 5 a.m. practices, but he's a physical guy in football and in everything, at practice and in the games. He played guard early in his career. He's a taller guy at 6-5, 320-325 (pounds). He has really long arms, but when they put him at left tackle, he was a physical, fierce competitor. He takes his guy three or four yards down the field. He's a good pass protector because he has length in his arms. His footwork was good enough. We just liked his demeanor, and then we had a good interview...He had an edge to him. He was ready to go. We think he fits in also as a right tackle because of his physicality and his size and in the vertical movement he possesses. We're excited about him."
Fox: "I think he's an offensive tackle and has a great combination of athleticism and power, and that's something we're looking for. He does it with the right set of mindset."
On how LB Von Miller fits into the defense with DEs Elvis Dumervil and Robert Ayers
Fox: "I think from a starting point, we see Ayers at left end, Elvis (Dumervil) at right end, and Von (Miller) at ‘Sam' backer; he could also be at the ‘Will' backer spot and certain fronts. Robert is a bigger, more physical guy that could actually move down into a more tackle type of alignment, and that would leave Von and Elvis on the edge. So I don't have to give away every little thing we might not do it (laughing), but from a concept stand point, that would be the process. You can put whatever name you want on it, 3-4, 4-3, all that stuff, but Elvis and Von, I think, have proven they're pretty good edge-rush players."
On the team's plans for the tight ends
Fox: "I think there is no question that (Julius) Thomas is what we call a wide tight end, an end-line tight end. He has a bigger frame-most of your top tight ends do have bigger frames. I think it helps the quarterback. It is the closest receiver for the quarterback to throw to. Developing that, we have (TE Richard) Quinn in place already. He is that type of body and I think he can grow a lot like (TE Antonio) Gates did in San Diego. Yet, they are built well enough and powerful enough to learn how to block. Every tight end ever been brought in this league-the No. 1 adjustment coming out of college into pro football is the blocking. We think we have an outstanding coaching staff that can help that process. As far as (TE) Virgil (Green) goes, he more of an ‘F' tight end, a ‘move' tight end. He has great vertical speed-he tested off the charts at the combine as far as the physical aspects. He can stretch the field, yet he is still a physical guy who can line up in the backfield from a wing alignment and has a physical-enough presence to block."
On the feel of being in the ‘War Room' compare to previous years
Xanders: "It was very different-a lot more people and it was a lot more inclusive. There was a lot more discussion. I really like working with both John Fox and John Elway. They are great guys-they know football and they know what they want to have on this team. We had great discussions on each level with the different rounds and the way the board fell. It was a good discussion. We included our top two people in pro personnel, our top two people in college scouting and we had the coaches involved a lot more this draft. They evaluated 15-20 players each, instead of 5-8. With the big picture, it was a more inclusive process. Our scouts had their say in December and February. We brought them in on certain discussions-as we had different players coming down on the board, we had them come in and talk about their character and what they thought was the best choice on the board at that time. It was an open room and we felt great about it. The other person that was in there this year was (Head Athletic Trainer Steve) "Greek" (Antonopulos)-he is our longtime trainer. He is a great employee here with the Broncos and he helped guide us through the medical part of the process."
On whether there were any ties that had to be broken
Elway: "No, believe me, there were a lot of discussions that went on for a long time, but eventually we came back and got back to the same point to where when we made the decisions, we were all on the same page. Like I said, the open discussion that we had with each of the players that each of us liked-we were able to talk our way through it, along with the other guys in the room and eventually as everything came down, we had one guy pinpointed, and we were all on board with the guy that we took."
On why the team went with LB Von Miller over DL Marcell Dareus with the No. 2 pick
Elway: "Two great players-Dareus is going to have a long career and a great career and he is a great player. I really think that we looked at Von and the difference to me was that he is one of those guys that comes along once in 10 years and a guy that has a chance to be dynamic on the football field. He is a guy, as I have said so many times, when you turn on the film you do not need to know what number he is. You can just tell because he is moving that fast on the football field and is a kid that we just feel like the upside is there. Because of that ability and plus the type of person he is-and Marcell Dareus, we spent a lot of time with him and he was a great guy also and would have fit in great here. Just the way Von was and bottom line, his athletic ability and upside we felt that for what we needed-obviously, we needed a tackle-but what Von brought, he was the best fit for us."
Xanders: "I would say the same thing. With Dareus, we really liked his strength, his explosion and his power. He is a bigger defensive tackle. He was very versatile and the other thing about him was that he was in a great scheme and system there with Nick Saban in Alabama. We think he is going to have a great career. We had the same grade with those two players. The thing with Von and the more we talked was his explosion, his playmaking ability, his mismatches that he causes in scheme protections with (DE) Elvis (Dumervil) on the other side and all of our interior players-and, like John (Elway) just said, his upside. He can be a 255-pound linebacker that can cover tight ends, that can rush the passer and you can run different schemes with him. You can run 3-4, even on dime (packages), you can run 3-3 and 3-2 (fronts). You can move him everywhere and he is a good football player. He is a great teammate and we thought he had an explosive mismatch ability."
On why the team did not choose CB Patrick Peterson
Fox: "All three of those guys you mentioned (Miller, Dareus and Peterson), I wanted all three of them, but we could not get them (laughing). They are all impact guys. From Von to Dareus and also Patrick-we spent a lot of time with all three of them. It really did not come down to who we liked the best or not, it was who would fit us best. All three are great players and are going to have great careers in this league and they are really that type of talent. There are not a whole lot of 219-pound guys that run 4.3 (40-yd. dash). All of them have a unique talent and we had to make a choice."
On the team's plans for free agency
Xanders: "We have been prepared for free agency since December and we really fine-tuned it in January with John Fox and John Elway. Then, there was that system change, so we have not made any contact and we have not done anything with that. Once they tell us the rules, we are allowed to execute the plan. We have a plan for free agency. We are ready for two systems. We are ready for the four, five and six (year unrestricted free agents) being free and we are ready for the six-plus guys being free."
On whether there are players that the team will look at from Carolina
Fox: "I cannot get into specifics at this stage, but as Brian mentioned, we do have a plan. We have a plan A, B, C, D. We are in the blocks and ready to go, we are just waiting for the (start) gun."
On not drafting a player at a "skill position"
Fox: "Well, I think that if you are going to kind of relegate the skill positions to just offense and just wide receivers, quarterbacks and running backs-just like defensive tackles, we could not address all of our needs in this pool. Moving forward we are going to do everything in our power to better our football team in the next pool."
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A key, key line that I support
We were not going to reach down below just because of the position that we had (a need).
I think this is great, frankly. While there were maybe two or three DTs that I wanted them to grab at a certain point, after that they would’ve been reaching and instead they took a great bunch of players and guys, who will still help fill areas of need. Rather than just reaching, which has not worked well in Broncos drafting history.
This is a very odd year in that free agency is happening after the draft, i.e., everything is backwards. So we have to keep that in mind when evaluating.
There's no need to fear, Underdog is here! / Broncos/Dodgers/Lakers fan in Niners/Raiders/Giants/Warriors country, and damned proud of it.
Maybe this is frontwards and what happened in the past is backwards
Everyone seems to be coming around to the view that teams must build through the draft to emulate success like Green Bay, Pittsburgh, and NE. If so, then drafting should come first and fill in through FA second. The time sequence doesn’t really seem to matter.
by OrangeandBluesBros on May 1, 2011 7:27 AM MDT up reply actions
I just watched film of last year and...
man our D was SLOW. Speed is really great to have. Just a .5 sec is the difference between an interception and a touchdown, so having speed should help everywhere.
I keep thinking about the tight ends. I would love to see some three TE sets used for run and pass, something I don’t think we have always had the ability to do. Both of the TE’s drafted are speed TE’s, so I can see them using this formation to advantage next year.
I really like the paragraph “On the feel of being in the ‘War Room’ compare dot previous years”.
5-8 only?!?!? Good lord…
5-8....no wonder.
I guess I do remember them talking about using a short board, but I assumed they at least evaluated all the talent before they cut down to a short board…guess not.
short bus is more like it
after 10/24/10, fader nation is not a conquered nation
Jerry Jones is Al Davis with a smile!
CHICAGO...Where Quaterbacks' careers go to die!
by mdierk on Apr 30, 2011 10:02 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
And Fox mentioned the need to get more speed on the defense, which has been missing for awhile.
I am quite amazed anybody is really that upset with these picks. It is very possible they came out of the draft with at least 3 instant starters, if not 5, and there is still free agency left to get more players.
This defense has not gotten pressure on the QB in years other than blitzing 6-7 guys of course and even then, that wasn’t successful often either. They addressed that and I feel successful with Miller and with Dumervil coming back, they actually have 2 guys that can rush the QB.
And other than Champ, they have not had anybody else in the secondary who made plays and could cause turnovers. They addressed that and we’ll see if that was successful or not.
We are going to look at all the quarterbacks again next year too, so you can count on that. We are going to look at them next year as we did this year and each year.
Ugh.
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"They said I couldn't be a high school quarterback, they said I couldn't get a D1 scholarship. You're not good enough, you're not skilled enough. They said I couldn't win a heisman. They said I couldn't win a national championship. They said I wouldn't be a first round draft pick. They said I couldn't play in the league. Appreciate that." - Tim Tebow.
but, I think we won't have the # 2 pick next year.
We still will not be in the position of being able to afford giving up lots of picks to move up for those real franchise QBs.
we will be picking #32
For the love of the animals. 24
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by Earthtiger24 on Apr 30, 2011 8:13 PM MDT up reply actions
I like the way you think! +1
"I used to fight the pain, but recently this became clear to me: pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness."--Henry Rollins
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don't worry
I think Elway is pretty wiley. By investigating them deeply every year, quarterback Elway will have a pretty damn good idea of their weaknesses for when we play AGAINST them.
Exactly!
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
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I was absolutely thinking that very thing!
It is always a good idea to know what the talent is and where it’s going. I think EFX are a lot craftier than many people give credit for.
We conquered this territory with our bodies and souls, then we watered it with our tears.
Go Denver!
I've heard both Reid and Holmgren say it's wise to always scout QB's
Every draft, and few men know about player development then those guys. While I agree with you, we have to keep in mind that long term matters more then just settling Tebow-Orton, great teams develop players for years, and for us to be great, we have to always be looking and planning, nothing would be worse then entering 2012 with Orton gone and Tebow struggling more then expected. No one wants to be unprepared.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Relax Nick.
Like they said we are going to do our due diligence so that if Brady comes along we don’t pass on him 5 times again. Remember, GB drafted Rodgers when Favre was still very effective. Due diligence is a good thing.
Oh, you were finished? Oh, well, allow me to retort!
--Jules Winnfield
by GrizBronc on May 1, 2011 12:34 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Knowing QBs helps to get you trades in the draft
I think evaluating all the QBs is a good idea. That gives you a knowledge of QBs strengths and weaknesses, where they should go in the draft, and what team might reach for them.
QB is the position that most teams will trade for. Evaluating QBs is probably what allowed us to trade form 36 and pick up a #4 and #5. I think it is a good idea to do this every year and hopefully get more trades in the draft.
Great draft. We got a TON of depth if nothing else.
It’s been a very long time since anyone was able to say that about the Broncos.
Bronco Champions are being forged as we speak.
I am really happy with the PR aspect of this
That being a visible team effort that is (at least at MHR) being received well by the fans. I expect to see a bump up in the media concerning the Broncos prospects moving forward.
This is my favorite quote:
Fox: “We are making a switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3. So, we need more speed at linebacker. One of the main criteria of this draft was to get faster on defense. That is something that we felt like was a deficiency and I think we accomplished that in a pretty big way.”
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Apr 30, 2011 8:36 PM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Back to the old days...
We used to have arguably the fastest LB corps in the league (firstly with Gold/Al/Mobley then Gold/Al/DJ) and I love that we’re getting back to that. It kind of sucks for Mario and Joe – I think both played their socks off for us last year. I wonder if we do keep them, but part of me says we should let at least one go to a 3-4 team – Haggan obviously has a fair amount of value in that he can play both ILB and OLB spots and Mays showed a lot of promise as a TED thumper – I bet Tony Moeaki is hoping that the guy gets traded.
Another thing I love is the report on Irving – great leadership and great instincts. He may not have quite the athleticism that Al had, but I’m really excited about him. This LB corps has seriously missed the fire and instincts that Al brought the table, I’m relieved that we’ve finally got a guy who could develop into a viable replacement for him.
I think I've pinpoited why there were no DTs taken
Xanders and The Johns just didn’t like the DTs we liked.
Genius, I know -)
One more note here. I think fans often confuse misunderstand when EFX talk about taking the best player on their board. That doesn’t mean BPA. We didn’t draft BPA. “The board” has grades that include not just talent, but also grades for how well the player fits into our scheme, the player’s character, his off-field issues, his potential role for this team, AND a bump or drop for how well he fills a need.
I can’t understand why we keep seeing folks talk about how we just took BPA. It’s a myth.
We just added 3 LBs, 2 safeties, 2 TEs, a RT and a DE. Positions we didn’t draft include QB, WR and CB. Coincidence that every pick helped fill a need? Yeah, right
Von. Doom. Pow!
Good Point
While I didn’t think it likely, I was still terrified of the possibility that we would continue to spend high draft picks at the WR and CB positions. I’m glad to say my fears were unjustified. I can sleep easy now.
Many believe CB is a need spot and there was quite a few around here wanting a QB. Not to mention with Royal and Thomas injured, a WR could easily be argued is a need too.
Broncos didn’t need to take 3 LB’s or even 2 safeties, which I think that shows doing that they went with BPA on their board. Sure, maybe they were picking a LB against another position, but went with the guy they liked better regardless of position.
If they are taking a player who they like and fills a need, even better, but that is the definition of BPA to them. Maybe that player isn’t the BPA to Mayock or Kiper or fans, but that player is to them.
Re: LB
We needed a lot of linebackers. It came as no surprise, IMO. DJ is our only lock to even make the team prior to the draft. Woody is the only other likelihood to make the team. Mays is the only guy on the bubble. Give them all the edge and that makes three on our roster with only 1.5 starters.
As for the need v BPA argument, it’s beaten to death and I’m too happy to get deep there. I just disagree. Teams with holes use early picks to fill those holes.
Von. Doom. Pow!
Re: CBs
No way CB is a priority need right now. We had so many last year that we had to trade a 2nd round pick (Smith) – and cut others that had good potential. I believe Champ is locked in, and Goody will probably start too, but Squid is extremely quick and has amazing acceleration and quick instincts, a perfect fit for Foxs defense. We also have to wait and see how Coxs hearing goes, because he had an amazing start and huge upside if this off field garbage clears up. CB is NOT a high priority the year. Not compared to the rest of our defense and our RBs, TEs, and OL depth.
"It is better to be rougly right than precisely wrong." - John Maynard Keynes
"Excellence can be obtained; if you care more than others think is wise…risk more than others think is safe…dream more than others think is practical…expect more than others think is possible." - Anonymous Author
by Alexander Wall on May 1, 2011 2:01 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I know when I say BPA I also mean for our scheme. I really thought we drafted BPA (at least defensively that fit our scheme).
Like they said, the way the picks fell we couldn’t take a DT because a DT currently on the board wasn’t rated as highly as Moore at 46, Irving at 67 etc. I completely understand your point. BPA could have been a WR or a RB surely but considering need, scheme, character, talent etc, I feel like we did a great job of BPA.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Apr 30, 2011 9:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Yep, same page
We had enough needs going in that we could basically trip and hit a need on accident. Still, though, there was so little possibility of drafting non-need picks early in the draft.
There are exceptions to every rule and nothing is absolute, but far and away, teams will tell you they draft “BPA” and yet somehow miraculously fill needs with every early pick.
Von. Doom. Pow!
When a team picks according to BPA..
they are doing so according to a grade based on a set of criteria: ability, scheme, character, health, etc.
So, teams picking by BPA is not a myth. It’s a goal.
And need. You forgot to add need to that list
Name me a team that you think drafts BPA and I’ll come back and show you how they somehow magically filled a team need with nearly every early draft pick.
There are exceptions to the rule and nothing is absolute (as I said above), but BPA is largely a myth. Using early picks to fill holes is the far more common practice. FAR MORE
Von. Doom. Pow!
Um no
But I don’t think any 4-12 team can fix every need in one year. We fixed most of our needs, got a pass rush, add depth in the secondary, and drafted more youth into the offensive line. But there aren’t many examples of teams fixing everything in one draft.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
maxwell...you are CORRECT!
it was a rhetorical question directed at Rodney A (above), who suggests BPA is a myth.
U think they liked Phil Taylor but weren't willing to give up that much to get to him...
Same with Fairley…After that I have no idea…
by bfree2bronc on Apr 30, 2011 11:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes, probably
He had some speed. I thought he fit our criteria. I saw him as the poor man’s Dareus. The problem was he went way earlier than most analysts thought he would. The depth in the DL corps was compensated by the fact that their was a run, although I don’t consider it entirely unexpected.
******* It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. – Jiddu Krishnamurti
About Taylor...
I heard on the radio that the day after he was drafted, he tweeted " Yo homies, going to Cleveland to get me the big money ‘. I’m glad we didn’t take him. Doesn’t sound like a character guy to me !!
general point on DTs, and miscellaneous comments
The vaunted depth on the DL wasn’t actually that favorable for teams in a 4-3 scheme. Ironically, for those who disliked McDaniels, this was a very good draft to stock a 3-4, so we finally got the chance to draft DL34s once we no longer needed to.
The decision to draft Miller set our draft in a direction that wasn’t favorable to drafting a DT43. Partly it was luck, because most of the starter quality DT43s went in the 1st, and the next lowest tier wasn’t stocked with many DTs.
We saw a lot of undersized DTs who were too small or weren’t exactly the penetrators that we needed. And I think that one of the problems here at MHR is that people haven’t updated their thinking on scheme. It’s as if the fact that we’ve changed schemes hasn’t changed most people’s thinking yet.
Some of the DTs were obvious scheme fits, such as Liuget, a 3-tech, while others were better suited to the 3-4 but still fairly good projections in a 4-3 for reasons such as speed and penetrating ability. I hoped that Wilkerson might drop for this reason. I won’t pretend to understand these issues from a technical point of view, but you can often see it in their length. A bigger prospect such a Jenkins fit into the mold whereas some of the short, slower DLs were obviously better suited to a 3-4 and thus not high on our big board. And that includes players such as Jurrell Casey or Drake Nevis, who were 4-3 types but simply too small to warrant serious consideration on our part.,
I offered up candidates such as Terrell McClain as an example of what we might be looking for, but he was snatched up from under us at the beginning of the 3rd. Many D Lineman were taken sooner than the projected value so EFX would have needed to traded up in anticipation of the run of DLs before the end of the 1st, And I don’t know how predictable this was nor if there was much we could have done about it. For instance, a player such as Phil Taylor would have met our standards but he was snatched at #21. Remaining candidates such as Jenkins and McClain went immediately before we picked.
The point is that there were some appropriate DT43 candidates but they were poorly spaced for our needs and sometimes slipped away right before we could select them. It’s not as if we were so intent on many of them that we felt the need to move up, since they weren’t that highly rated, but we didn’t have a chance after the 1st. Picking Miller ended our chances, as it worked out, although candidates such as Paea and Austin attracted lots of attention. I don’t think we valued Paea as much as many believed and Autin is downright scary.
It’s attractive to think that we could have merely jumped on, say… Paea, but taking an inferior player just because it’s a weakness is illogical. As I’ve said before, addressing a problem is not the same thing as fixing a problem. Moreover, we couldn’t expect that any draftee wasn’t starter quality (1st to mid-2nd or so, on average), was going to solve our problems this year. In other words, we had to go the FA route anyways. All of us had hoped to find a DT for the future, and for the present, too, but the attitude that we blundered because we didn’t draft a DT as we went into the later rounds is foolish. Who exactly was that DT that we passed up? I realize that many have decided that passing up on Paea was the mistake, but I’m far from convinced.
******* It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. – Jiddu Krishnamurti
by Colinski on May 1, 2011 1:04 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well I was certainly wrong in my ranking of Paea
I considered him first-round talent that I expected to slip into the 2nd round. I openly thought that both Paea and Austin would be available, which they were. But again, I was wrong in my ranking. EFX passed on them.
Who exactly was that DT that we passed up? I realize that many have decided that passing up on Paea was the mistake, but I’m far from convinced.
Obviously EFX agrees with you now that I can see it in hindsight. They apparently didn’t have Paea or Austin ranked real highly. Still, I never saw comments like this about Paea before the draft. It’s something I’ll spend time on, to learn from the mistake. Maybe I thought Paea was the bee’s knees only because everyone else seemed to think so. Maybe. As of now, I still think Paea will be a great run stuffer. Still, EFX didn’t have him as high as I did. It’s a mistake I’ll revisit to learn from.
As for Taylor that you mentioned, he was my first choice. I moved up into the 1st round of a Live mock draft about a month back so that I could take him. I took Miller then Taylor then Austin. I took our new OT, Franklin, as our next pick.
I think I agree with your take for the most part. I thought there were DTs ready for the taking in the 2nd, but after that, I agree that DTs just didn’t represent the best value at any particular pick. So again, I think at the end of the day, EFX simply didn’t have Paea and Austin ranked as highly as we did – as highly as I did. After that, it was simply how the draft broke. I really saw no other surprises
Von. Doom. Pow!
It’s something I’ll spend time on, to learn from the mistake
Please share your findings. Unless I get to it first. =)
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
it's not that bad
We could sign a Cullen Jenkins or a Brandon Mebane, and so on. A really good DT such as a Suh can start right away but we weren’t going to have that unless we took Dareus, but I don’t know that he would have been the better choice. As I said, the irony is that we wouldn’t have had to replace the backers if we’d stayed in the 3-4. This is our 2nd scheme change in three years, and it monopolizes our draft picks somewhat each time. We did a lot through free agency the first time but it still draws on our resources as well as limiting our ability to improve, because we’re doing through lost cost FAs. It’s inefficient.
******* It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. – Jiddu Krishnamurti
It really stinks because if we stayed in the 4-3
instead of trying to change schemes. Weren’t there more 4-3 scheme players than 3-4 in last years draft? Seems to me that there was.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
we've been running into the wind both ways
There were more 4-3 guys recently because there are more in college. It wasn’t that bad as far as players projected to be able to play in a 3-4 but the great number of teams switching really increased demand, which seemed to be the greater problem. Some teams fared better in their conversions, such as Green Bay and Kansas City, which was partly because they had the resources, both before and after conversion.
I don’t agree with you, KK, if the sentiment is that the 3-4 is bad. I can think of more than a handful of teams, particularly several SB winners, who’ve done quite well with their 3-4 schemes. Our drafts didn’t emphasize DLs in recent years but that was partly luck, as it was this year, and partly because we signed so many FAs. There’s a strong chance that we would have gone another way in the draft if McDaniels was still here, because we wouldn’t have had to retool our defense again, and thus wouldn’t have had to spend picks on ‘scheme replacement’ players.
You have to bring in more players any time you change schemes. What I didn’t like was the fact that we were on a multi-year rebuilding program in the 3-4 but we skipped the last part, which was when we were due to finally add some DLs. I’m absolutely unconvinced that it was a bad idea to dump the system that McDaniels was building, but losing results in coaching changes and new coaches have new ideas. It’s not a wise way to do things however. And I’m not expecting great results this year but our personnel has improved so much over the last 3 years that we’re bound to experience some success in time. Rebuilding does that, after you go through the normal stretch of losing first.
******* It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. – Jiddu Krishnamurti
I see that you are right on your assessment
and no, I wasn’t belittling the merits or a preference to either scheme, just that like you stated in going against the wind. I realized that McD would need 3-4 years to completely enable his plan. It will take some time for the current regime to adjust things as well. Hopefully they will continue with more drafts like this one than some of the hideous ones in the past.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
ratings
CBS had him as a mid-2nd but the NFL site rated him a 7.6, which is just above Jurrell Casey or Christian Ballard, who were rated 7.5,
We were dependent on someone falling, or that the demand would become satiated, which didn’t happen. The opposite happened, there was a run.
Paea was a smallish (303 lbs.) NT who offered superior run stopping but little in the way of pass rush. We weren’t looking for a NT type unless it was a bigger, speedier example, such as the massive Taylor. Fox likes ‘big’ but you better be able to penetrate and make some plays. Paea sort of does this but he isn’t as threatening to a pro OL. I saw some of the other DTs as being better suited to our new scheme, and they all went before we could draft them. Despite what everyone says, there weren’t many candidates after the 1st. Jenkins was OK but probably would have needed help, as in a vet to start in the beginning. Austin and Paea were after that and we passed. The next and pretty much last possible was McClain, who has some penetrating ability, but I’m only guessing here. And DTs in the 3rd such as Nevis just weren’t up to our standards. And then there were none, so to speak.
The presence of Austin contributed to the belief that we could still draft a DT. We weren’t the only team that passed on him. We also weren’t the only team that passed on Paea. The problem is that everybody ‘wants’ to believe in some of these players. Beside Fairley and Dareus, Liuget was worth it, and also long gone. Wilkerson was probably worth it, but snatched away. Taylor was worth it, and likewise long gone. Anyone who might have fit our scheme and met the starter criteria (able to start by end of 1st season), was gone. You’re only drafting for future need if you take someone below that. It would have been nice to find a good developmental DT but there weren’t even any of those worth taking.
******* It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. – Jiddu Krishnamurti
I think part of the reasoning with Paea was that we wanted players who could play next season
We passed on a guy like Bruce Carter when we were looking at LB’s so we did the same with a guy like Paea.
yes, I agree
We were definitely looking for players who could start/contribute soon, and LBs can do that.
They way I put it is that a high-ish pick comes under the Who & When criteria — you draft them with round in mind because of how they’re going to be used. A high pick is a starter/future starter quality player. You can’t afford to hold space for them unless their play justifies the spot. A later pick or niche player can justify their spot because they’re behind a older or ‘short contract’ player. Niche players perform duties such as STs or special packages, which justifies their spot. It’s all about the roster math of a 45 man active squad or 52 total roster.
Here’s the odd part — we had to keep room open for FAs after a certain point in the draft. If you bring in a player that you don’t have room for then they’ll be cut, which is only OK if they’re late picks. Any DT draftee after the late 2nd or so was extra baggage that interfered with fixing the DL. A prospect that needs to carried (played rotationally, etc.) is taking the spot of a potential full-time starter, who would be a FA signee since no one else would be ready. Having a weakness can prevent you from rebuilding, which is exactly the trap Shanahan fell into here.
******* It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. – Jiddu Krishnamurti
by Colinski on May 1, 2011 2:30 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
nice observation
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
I like your explanations, rec'd.
I agree, Larsen shouldn’t get any bigger. I am getting tired of his bone crushing hits knocking the pixels off my TV, once they fall to the floor they are very hard to find.
by Arctic Bronco on May 1, 2011 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions
right BPA on our board of course
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA
by Whidbey Bronco on May 1, 2011 8:27 AM MDT up reply actions
at least this seems comforting
“I cannot get into specifics at this stage, but as Brian mentioned, we do have a plan. We have a plan A, B, C, D. We are in the blocks and ready to go, we are just waiting for the (start) gun.”
kudos for a plan, now go get deangelo
POP POP!!!
I'm thrilled with the draft
Mostly due to the fact that I don’t have to hear about another mock draft for a few months. Those things just grate on me for some reason.
How about those grades? Well, there's an A in alcohol, a B in beer. C is for Miss Carter, who we love so dear. D is for drunk, and there ain't no E, so F's for Forever Clear.
by wtnelson on Apr 30, 2011 9:28 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Well, I only do one mock draft, usually within a few days of the actual one. I do get tired of seeing some doing like 3, 5, 8 mock drafts, constantly doing them every week starting like 3 months before the draft. What good is all of that when they are going to keep making changes to it so much? Just wait until a few days before the draft at least and then just do one, not 10.
I think it’s mainly because I don’t pay enough attention to college sports to make any sense of them. I follow my CSU Rammies, and I watch the championship game. Then I start seeing drafts with all these great players, and I get excited about the idea of different guys. So I start to see other ideas and think, “How could you possibly think we’ll take HIM!?” But then I remember, “Well I don’t really give damn on account of I never knew who that guy was in the first place.”
How about those grades? Well, there's an A in alcohol, a B in beer. C is for Miss Carter, who we love so dear. D is for drunk, and there ain't no E, so F's for Forever Clear.
by wtnelson on Apr 30, 2011 10:09 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Hey you never know. I mean, I’m not lost, but I do have a lot of relatives that I’ve never met.
How about those grades? Well, there's an A in alcohol, a B in beer. C is for Miss Carter, who we love so dear. D is for drunk, and there ain't no E, so F's for Forever Clear.
by wtnelson on Apr 30, 2011 11:11 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
We might just have to meet up.
Throw on some Dale Watson or Merle Haggard and just kick back.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
You've convinced me
Watson and the Hag are my 2 favorites.
How about those grades? Well, there's an A in alcohol, a B in beer. C is for Miss Carter, who we love so dear. D is for drunk, and there ain't no E, so F's for Forever Clear.
by wtnelson on May 1, 2011 9:18 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Merle's "Silver Wings" has become one of my all time favorites
I agree, Larsen shouldn’t get any bigger. I am getting tired of his bone crushing hits knocking the pixels off my TV, once they fall to the floor they are very hard to find.
by Arctic Bronco on May 1, 2011 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Mock drafts for 2012 are already starting to show up!
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Seuss
"If there is anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot NOW!"
...Zaphod Beeblebrox-Intergalactic President
"If you didn't know, now you know"
+1
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA
by Whidbey Bronco on May 1, 2011 8:28 AM MDT up reply actions
As a Chiefs’ fan I like to keep track how all 4 teams in the AFCW do in the NFL Draft, and would like to see all 4 teams do well so that AFCW can claim the title as the best division in the NFL. While I think that the Broncos are better on defense after this draft, if I were a Broncos’ fan I would be extremely worried about the run defense with two of their main rush defenders being cut before the lockout, and no draft pick being used on a defensive tackle. With the lockout back, is there any concern on your guys part about not getting any defensive tackles in the draft?
GO CHIEFS!!! =)
in short
no.
"Have you ever heard of the emancipation proclamation?"
- "I don't listen to hip-hop"
by BroncoJoe311 on Apr 30, 2011 9:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Ditto
And when you say “cut” there’s “Cut” like “gone” and then there’s “cut” like “we didn’t like the salary for the value.” The Broncos are saying they would like Bannan back, who was cut for salary reasons, and Bannan says he would like to be back and retire in Colorado, adn he went to U of Colorado. Marcus Thomas had his contract expire, but the Broncos are saying they would like him back, but he went to U of Miami and might want to go to a Florida team. Jamal Williams was another “value” issue. There are enough DTs in FA to not be too worried. The real worry is the timing of when the lockout ends and when the regular season starts to get the players the Broncos need and get them working as a team on the field.
by OrangeandBluesBros on May 1, 2011 7:48 AM MDT up reply actions
Thats what I thought
Just wasnt sure if there was any young DT currently on the team with a lot potential that I didnt know about. Good luck in free agency =). If it ever starts =(
GO CHIEFS!!! =)
by ChiefsFan90s on Apr 30, 2011 11:08 PM MDT up reply actions
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned. I am still very concerned about our run D but I feel great about the picks we made.
We’ve been so slow on D for so long I’m glad we made speed a priority. I don’t expect us to be top 15 in run D this year but if we can address these needs next year I think we’ll be pretty set.
It could have been the opposite too. We could have addressed the D-line and then still been weak at LB and S this year being a sieve in the middle of the field. I was never under the illusion that we’d address all our needs in one draft but I do honestly believe we are a much better D now than last year.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Apr 30, 2011 9:55 PM MDT up reply actions
100% agree you guys are better on defense after the draft.
However, in a division with Oakland and Kansas City though, it is extremely important to have a good run defense. And thanks for the answer.
GO CHIEFS!!! =)
by ChiefsFan90s on Apr 30, 2011 11:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Hopefully Tebow will get us a lead and teams won't be able to run on us since they'll be playing from behind :)
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Apr 30, 2011 11:41 PM MDT up reply actions
no worries.
With the new scheme, the players we have now are better suited than they we for the line last year. (I’m thinking Marcus Thomas was better in a 4-3, and Vickerson should be better in a 4-3 as well)
Fair enough
But be sure to come back after free agency to take this statement back :)
Von. Doom. Pow!
If they are able to improve there run defense with a few quality defensive tackles. Will do =)
GO CHIEFS!!! =)
by ChiefsFan90s on Apr 30, 2011 11:11 PM MDT up reply actions
I'll make it easier on you by better defining it..
Denver adds a blue-chipper at DT in FA.
It’s the only major need left.
Now that’s not to say we’re a SB team, and I’m not saying every draft pick works out. I’m only saying that all high priority/expensive needs were addressed to where big money can’t be spent… except for DT.
RBs are a dime a dozen and no other starting positions/time share positions are needed.
Von. Doom. Pow!
I think we'll target a solid RB too
Deangelo
Bush
Hightower?
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Apr 30, 2011 11:41 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree on the need there
But I don’t see it maybe as quite as big of a need.
I think we need a blue chip player at DT, whereas I think we need a blue collar player at RB. I don’t see spending DeAngelo Willimas type of money at RB when we really only need a time share type of back.
With Ryan Harris in the game last year, we ranked about 10th in running the ball. Now Moreno has legitimate concerns regarding his ability to stay healthy, but that’s not at all unique for RBs across the league.
I hope one year didn’t ruin my overall perspective on RBs, but last year there were some really great running backs that went in FA for around $3M per season. We need to get Moreno in the “buddy system” is sort of how I look at it. If we needed a starter, I’d say a guy like Carolina’s back would be an easy possibility. But I’m not at all convinced of that. Even if Moreno was “over drafted”, which he probably was, he’s still solid enough to not break the bank in bringing him a buddy.
I think a guy like Hightower is more likely, personally. I think a lot also depends on LenDale White’s current conditioning. This could go a lot of ways. It’s certainly a need, but I don’t see us grabbing a true blue-chipper at RB. And I think a guy like DeAngelo is just that – I think he’ll be expensive.
Von. Doom. Pow!
I found this hidden among my notes
Broncos Team Report
Yahoo! Sports – 12/31/10
RB LenDale White, on injured reserve with a torn Achilles tendon, began running in the pool Thursday. He said his target date to jog on solid ground likely falls somewhere within the next month. The veteran tailback is signed through 2011.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
Thank you
I was wondering how LenDale was doing
by OrangeandBluesBros on May 1, 2011 7:51 AM MDT up reply actions
I have a thought: Orton and Harris for Haynesworth and a draft pick. Been thinking about this all day and makes perfect sense!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
I don't want to speak for Boyd
But I do want to add that I think first and foremost, what needs to he understood about Albert, is that it’s essentially a two-year signing. His contract is structured to where you’d have to get out of it after the two years. So I don’t see him as a long-term solution. I just see him as a guy whose talents for cost over those next two years are absolutely astronomical. He’ll cost about $6M per year. That’s dirty cheap for a guy like that. His new issue is an issue, but again, so are the issues with Cox and DJ. And I don’t expect Albert to be suspended anytime within the first half of the season – if ever at all.
Von. Doom. Pow!
Rodney if we really mean business they would fork out the money on 2 stud DTs in FA...Colfield and Mebane and the defense will be set for a few years.
I guess it kind of comes down to philosophy to me, instead of the actual pickups
Meaning, I think we’ve got to add one great guy to feel secure, but we also need to leave room to where we can sign for upside and still have room for an “upside guy” to start. And also leave room to where we can draft at that position next year.
Buying two high priced DTs sort of handcuffs us into paying for talent at the position for years… versus being able to develop an answer at a cheaper price.
Von. Doom. Pow!
I think it will also depend on if there is a rookie cap Bfree.
Without a cap we may only target 1 FA DT (blue chip that is). I there is a rookie cap (which I hope and think there will be) then I can see us targeting both and paying both.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on May 1, 2011 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions
Sign me up
I hate the idea of letting Harris go. But I do think it’s entirely possible. Can’t trade him if he’s a free agent, though. And if he’s not a free agent, which means we have him under contract for a good price for this year, then I don’t see us parting with him.
So I can’t really foresee a scenario where we would get anything for him – either we keep him, or he walks for nothing in return.
But give me Haynesworth and change for Orton and I’m in!
Von. Doom. Pow!
The Broncos have passed on a lot of
players with character concerns, such as Austin. He’s a saint compared to Al. I don’t think they’ll go after him
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
if FA doesn't open before game 1 - YES
But it will.
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA
by Whidbey Bronco on May 1, 2011 8:29 AM MDT up reply actions
I actually love the fact that the draft was before FA this year. I wish they would make it before FA every year in the new CBA.
I love having to plan your draft without knowing what needs you’ll be able to fill in FA. It surely makes for taking BPA on your board and not panicking like they said. I think our team in the long run would definitely benefit from this type of offseason schedule. Many may not agree but I liked it.
If it were the case I’d move the draft up a month though so that there wasn’t as much dead time and then make FA during the entire month of April right around OTA time.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
I do too, Math
It really helped a team like ours, with the amount of holes we had, to be able to draft first then add FAs where we weren’t able to draft.
I’m guessing RB, OL depth and maybe even a DT
Von. Doom. Pow!
I think DT is a must now...I don't see much on the roster, do you?
by bfree2bronc on Apr 30, 2011 11:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Nothing.
I don’t even see a starter.
I just think DT is the only major hole left for a major expenditure. So I expect a blue-chipper out of FA
Von. Doom. Pow!
Maybe Mebane and Cofield at 10 mil apiece...
Two run stuffing studs would make our defense suddenly great from bad?
It's all guess work right now
And probably EFX are probably doing the same.
My initial guess is that we make one high-priced expenditure at DT, then bring in some quality rotators to compete. I think one of last year’s DTs are likely to come back also.
I can see spending money to make it right, but I can’t see giving up a 1st round pick to do so. I’d bet big that Ngata isn’t a remote option. I like Cofield, though.
Von. Doom. Pow!
I'd do it in a second
Ngati is a stud. He singlehandedly makes that Baltimore defense better. The coaches have said that it starts and ends with him. He would be worth a first round pick but I think Baltimore would ask for much more than that for him.
"Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." - Calvin Coolidge
by BroncoCanuck on May 1, 2011 12:50 AM MDT up reply actions
I loved it also.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Seuss
"If there is anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot NOW!"
...Zaphod Beeblebrox-Intergalactic President
"If you didn't know, now you know"
We went from sloooooow to faaaast in 3 days....
I like it :)
BTW…NFLN and ESPN have stated that KO is the starter and Tebow is still a project….except Herm Edwards of all people. He says you gotta let him play to see what he’s got!
Go Herm!?!
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
John Adams
Can you say, bye DJ...
I think at some point this will be our LineBacking corp…Can we trade DJ when the CBA or Lockout is settled? Along with Orton? Get some good players or picks next year for ammo…
by bfree2bronc on Apr 30, 2011 11:15 PM MDT up reply actions
I say we keep him for the year and trade him before the draft next year. No sense trading him now when he can still make a positive impact on the team.
I don’t see Mohammed or Woodyard being able to replace him this year.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Apr 30, 2011 11:39 PM MDT up reply actions
DJ never possessed the quickness or coverage skills tha Fox likes.
DJ keep keep complaining he has been playing out of position every year, he just doesn’t fit what Fox wants in his LBers. Fast and be able to cover. Sure DJ is an adequate tackler but he lacks in skills for this defense. I think we will trade him if we can. Maybe a 5th or 6th rounder next year. That would leave us: WW, Robinson, Braxton, Mays, Irvin and Mohamad…It would be like starting over but, it has to happen sometime…
Disagree DJ fits perfectly in Fox's scheme. He is actually one of the faster LB's
you realize he ran a 4.45?
Um I think DJ fits Fox's scheme well
Especially considering you are over emphasizing speed, while important, it’s hardly everything to Fox. Fox likes experienced LB’s, ones who can read the flow of a play from back 5-10 yards, adjust and then stop the big play from happening. And DJ I haven’t heard DJ complain about being shifted around, I’d love a link where he says he doesn’t like it. Also, most sites have DJ as one of top 5 LB’s in the division and in the upper half of the AFC. DJ’s not great, but anyone who isn’t a Denver fan whose biased seems to think he’s pretty good. Funny how fans often tear down their own players even when others see that player as a talent and then just mock those fans.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
never understood the DJ hate around here. He's GOOD. More talent around him will make him better.
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA
by Whidbey Bronco on May 1, 2011 10:22 AM MDT up reply actions
Agreed
While this isn’t saying much, he’s our 2nd best defensive player behind Champ.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
I'd say 3rd behind Champ and Elvis.
I want to trade him but only because of his off the field concerns and I think we can get great value for him. If he can clean up his act I’d like to keep him around.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on May 3, 2011 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions
Totally agree Whidbey...he is going to blow up with these guys around him.
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
It would be much better to start over when our new LBs have a year of experience and than have all 3 LBs new.
I say keep DJ and trade him next year. That will still get us value and we’ll have some veterans on the line for our new WLB next year.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on May 3, 2011 11:46 AM MDT up reply actions
Lived this paragraph by Fox:
Fox: "I think from a starting point, we see Ayers at left end, Elvis (Dumervil) at right end, and Von (Miller) at ‘Sam’ backer; he could also be at the ‘Will’ backer spot and certain fronts. Robert is a bigger, more physical guy that could actually move down into a more tackle type of alignment, and that would leave Von and Elvis on the edge. So I don’t have to give away every little thing we might not do it (laughing), but from a concept stand point, that would be the process.
by bfree2bronc on Apr 30, 2011 11:12 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
+12
haha I almost copied and pasted that entire paragraph exactly like you did. I had already copied it but then decided not to paste it. I already wrote like three posts on Miller, so I figured people by now have just started skipping my thoughts on him… just chopping it up to a man crush lol
But yeah, that’s what we’ve all been thinking on Miller. Even though a lot of us wanted to draft someone else, Miller playing at DE for Ayers on passing downs and even moving him around at LB spots was ceratinly discussed and expected
Von. Doom. Pow!
Yeah
Fox has some tricks up his sleeve. Maybe Ayers at OLB and Miller at DE on occasion.
by OrangeandBluesBros on May 1, 2011 8:01 AM MDT up reply actions
While this was fun and all
I learned more about the scheme Fox wants to run and his plan for the team more then anything specific about the players, which is what a good thing. Fox talked about how it wouldn’t be a pure 4-3 defense, how Miller won’t play DE, that Ayers is likely the starter, that we drafted a lot of guys for long term, rather then instant starters, who will be in the running for competition and ST play. What Fox said is actually similar to what McD said, and not in a bad way, a lot about competition and players earning their spots, this I like to hear. While I would grade this draft a B for some players I would call reaches, even if Xanders doesn’t, and also possibly depending too much on FA for DT and RB, but overall, solid draft.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
read the paragraph above Max...He'll be used in a lot of different alignments. That's what makes him valuable for EFX.
how Miller won’t play DE
BTW, Ayers has played all across the line for us (especially when Nolan was here) and did pretty well. He can slide over to DT and Miller can move up to DE on passing downs…Ca-Ching…Down goes Phylis, down goes Phylis…
Um I suppose so, opinion I guess
Miller won’t play DE, he’s a LB, and while Fox isn’t known for exotic blitz packages, I could easily see Doom and Miller lined up on the same side, stacking that side. But I don’t see Miller moving to far inside, he will line up on the line of scrimmage, but I doubt he ever puts his hand down on the ground, that’s just not his style. I can see Fox mixing it up, But Doom and Ayers are the bookend DE’s, with Miller switching sides depending on the down, to help create pressure from various points, but I don’t think we’ll see Miller ever come and put his hand on the ground.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Miller played DE in college his Freshman and Junior years
so he very well might line up in a three point stance on passing downs
Check out my blog about undergraduate science research
by black_knight101 on May 1, 2011 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions
I liked the way the entire process seemed to be controlled by adult professionals with a plan
I forgot how good that felt to see that.
Adult professionals with a plan? Running an NFL team no less? And it's our team?
THE HELL YOU SAY!!!
Some people got nothing to be angry about so they're angry about nothing. - Doug Stanhope
I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. - Thomas Jefferson
by MrFNSunshine on May 1, 2011 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions
DTs missed.
Of course we wanted some, and im sure most of is could put together lists of DTs we passed over but lets all be honest here. We dont know the exact schemes they want to use, we didnt interviews any of these prospects, and none of us have flipped through any of their medical files. The players EFX passed pver were passed over fpr good reasons.
No doubt many of them will turn out to be excellent players, but we have to lean more to solid prospects with less risk – even if it means less reward because we just dont have the luxury right now of gambling. Poor people dont gamble and the ones that do stay poor. We did the right thing this year and i dont believe the frpnt office will have any regrets. They did what they had to do given the circumstances and we are and will be a better team for their patience and conservative moves.
"It is better to be rougly right than precisely wrong." - John Maynard Keynes
"Excellence can be obtained; if you care more than others think is wise…risk more than others think is safe…dream more than others think is practical…expect more than others think is possible." - Anonymous Author
by Alexander Wall on May 1, 2011 2:11 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
agreed. the fact that we 'didn't have the luxury of gambling' allows for much. We picked solid guys with every pick (maybe not the OT - WTH?)
I still think we put too much pressure on ourselves in Free Agency.
Oh yeah. And if Miller turns out to be a fail stopping the run or in coverage… !#$#!!!
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA
by Whidbey Bronco on May 1, 2011 8:37 AM MDT up reply actions
BPO? Not at all
This draft, because of the lockout, BPO went out the window. Teams realized this is the team they are going to have and picked BPO that filled a need.
Nearly every team had a pick where they reached to some extent.
he's tall, blonde, smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!

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