Defensive Identity and The Future of the Broncos Defense
Our defense has been rough for the last few years and has definitely lacked identity. I think the guys have an idea of what they want from our defense and I wanted to examine some of the offseason additions and a little history of Fox and Allen in hopes to figure out what kind of defense we can look forward to in the near future.
Looking Ahead:
After examining the draft and taking some time to think about the two guys running our defense I have come to a couple conclusions. To me it looks like our model of defense for the future is going to be focused on a few key areas.
1) Speed: Fast guys in open space.
2) Character: Guys with a team mentality and the right attitude.
3) Scheme: Pressure and creating turnovers.
After reviewing the draft it should be no surprise that we took the defensive players we did. Fox has always liked talented DEs and LBs while Allen was the DB coach on a defense that put emphasis on creating pressure and turnovers. We already have one great RDE and another with good potential at LDE therefore we were left with glaring needs at LB and S and the guys stayed true to their board and ended up taking 3 LBs and 2 Ss. Seems like a little overkill but we got some real solid players and may not have to address either of those positions for a long time.
1) Speed, especially at the LB position, is incredibly important and, I believe, was completely overlooked by the last regime. You can't tackle the guy if you can't get there. The draft has instantly upgraded the speed of the guys running around in open space. We will now have 3 fast LBs and 2 speedy safeties that will be able to close on RBs and cover the deep end of the field. Last year DJ was our only LB with closing speed and Dawkins is slowing down and proved to be somewhat of a liability in coverage. With a collaboration of guys that are athletic and quick enough to get to the ball I think we will see less guys(DJ and Champ) trying to make up for the other guys who just couldn't get the job one and an overall improvement in production from each player on the defense.
2) Character: I also believe that character and attitude is incredibly important on defense and its something we have been lacking as an overall unit. In order to be successful the defense must play together and have a lights out mentality. The one thing I have noticed is that the guys we grabbed this year were either leaders on their college defenses and/or possess a team-first mentality. . Having a number of guys working together on every level as a team will be one of the big differences we see this year. Also, we need a leader on defense, especially because this may be Dawkins final year. I have a feeling that Miller and Irving will end up being our defensive leaders of the future and I couldn't be more excited. I also noticed that all of these guys seem pumped to be Broncos and have the right, aggressive attitude to be great players. They want to get out there and "wreak havoc" as Nate Irving said. These guys will have each others back and bring some energy and destruction to our defense that has been lacking since Al Wilson left.
3) Scheme: I have always been a believer that having the right coach/coordinator that knows defense can make a huge difference and we all know Fox turned the 3rd worst defense into a top ten defense his first year at Carolina and I don't see why that is not possible here(at least a top 15 D). Looking at these guys it seems we have put an emphasis on creating pressure and turnovers and that our defense may be a combination of the turnover happy Saints D of a couple of years ago and the speedy, pressure creating D of Fox's style. If we can collect a couple of stout DTs in FA I think this D will really surprise some people and we could have a greatly improved unit. Either way, I have a feeling the defensive side of the ball will be exciting to watch next year with Von Doom flying at QBs and our DBs sitting back and waiting to make the big play. Turnovers are huge. Not only do they create points for your team and take away points from the opponent, they can swing momentum and drastically and change an entire game. I can honestly say that I am all in if this is what we are going for next year. .
Analyzing the Pasts of Fox and Allen:
I wanted to get a simple overview of the past performance of the defenses of Fox and Allen to see if what I found might shed some light on what kind of defense we will see next year and how they have related to the success of their respective teams. No real crazy statistics, just the simple stuff, and you can read into them how you like.
|
Panthers Defense |
Broncos |
Differential |
||||||
|
Year |
Overall Rankings(pts/yards) |
Record |
Sacks |
T/Os |
Sacks |
T/Os |
Sacks |
T/Os |
|
2002 |
5/2 |
7-9 |
52 |
33 |
40 |
22 |
12 |
11 |
|
2003 |
10/8 |
11-5(SB Appearance) |
40 |
26 |
35 |
20 |
5 |
6 |
|
2004 |
15/20 |
7-9 |
34 |
38 |
38 |
20 |
-4 |
18 |
|
2005 |
5/3 |
11-5(NFC Championship) |
45 |
42 |
27 |
36 |
18 |
6 |
|
2006 |
8/7 |
8-8 |
41 |
22 |
36 |
30 |
5 |
-8 |
|
2007 |
15/16 |
7-9 |
23 |
30 |
33 |
30 |
-10 |
0 |
|
2008 |
12/18 |
12-4(NFC Divisional) |
37 |
25 |
26 |
13 |
11 |
12 |
|
2009 |
9/8 |
8-8 |
31 |
37 |
39 |
30 |
-8 |
7 |
|
2010 |
26/18 |
2-14 |
31 |
29 |
23 |
18 |
8 |
11 |
|
Overall Average |
11.7/11.1 |
8-8 |
37.11 |
31.33 |
33.00 |
24.33 |
4.11 |
7.00 |
|
3 yr average |
15.7/14.7 |
5-11 |
33.00 |
30.33 |
29.33 |
20.33 |
3.67 |
10.00 |
|
Saints Defense |
Broncos |
Panthers |
||||||
|
Year |
Overall Rankings(pts/yards) |
Record |
Sacks |
T/Os |
Sacks |
T/Os |
Sacks |
T/Os |
|
2008 |
26/23 |
8-8 |
28 |
22 |
26 |
13 |
37 |
25 |
|
2009 |
20/25 |
13-3 (Won Superbowl) |
35 |
39 |
39 |
30 |
31 |
37 |
|
2010 |
7/4 |
11-5(NFC Wild Card) |
33 |
25 |
23 |
18 |
31 |
29 |
|
Average |
17.7/17.3 |
11-5 |
32 |
28.66667 |
29.33333 |
20.33333 |
33 |
30.33333 |
The biggest things that I noticed between Fox's Panthers Defenses is that 6 out of the 9 years they had more sacks, 3 of those years they had a double digit advantage over the Broncos, and 8 out of the 9 years they had more turnovers, 4 of them being a double digit advantage over the Broncos. In the 9 year comparison of Fox's D to the Broncos, the averages weren't as staggering of a difference as I would have imagined: only 4 more a year in sacks and 7 more in turnovers for Fox's D. What I did find was that even with the 30 Turnovers for the Broncos in 2009 they are still averaged10 less turnovers a year than the Panthers in the last 3 years.
It is a little hard to judge what may come of Allen's influence on the D because there is really only 3 years to evaluate and he wasn't the coordinator. Obviously, the 39 turnovers in 2009 was pretty impressive, especially because the Saints didn't rack up crazy sack numbers, a respectable but not outstanding 35 sacks, and much of that could be contributed to Allen's defensive backs, but with only a few years to evaluate and just 22 and 25 turnovers the other years we can't be sure. Either way, the Saints did average nearly 29 turnovers per year while Allen was the defensive backs coach and that is 8 better than the Broncos in the same 3 year span.
Super Bowl Defenses:
|
Year |
SB Winner |
Rankings(Defensive T/Os) |
Sacks |
T/Os |
Overall Rankings(pts/yards) |
|
2001 |
8 |
41 |
35 |
6/24 |
|
|
2002 |
3 |
43 |
38 |
1/1 |
|
|
2003 |
Patriots |
2 |
41 |
41 |
1/7 |
|
2004 |
Patriots |
4 |
45 |
36 |
2/9 |
|
2005 |
11 |
47 |
30 |
3/4 |
|
|
2006 |
21 |
25 |
26 |
23/21 |
|
|
2007 |
22 |
53 |
25 |
17/7 |
|
|
2008 |
Steelers |
9 |
51 |
29 |
1/1 |
|
2009 |
Saints |
2 |
35 |
39 |
20/25 |
|
2010 |
6 |
47 |
32 |
2/5 |
|
|
Average |
|
9 |
42.8 |
33.1 |
7.6/10.3 |
In addition, I thought I would examine the Sack and Turnover rankings and stats of the past 10 Super Bowl Champions. I found that the average Super Bowl winning team was ranked 9th in defensive turnovers with just over 33 and averaged a whopping 42.8 sacks a year (just a couple more than our 2010 Broncos...). 7 of the 10 teams were ranked in the top 10 and 4 in the top 5. The teams that didn't were the 05 Steelers (barely missed the top 10), the 06 Colts (who cares when Peyton is running your offense), and the 07 Giants (I still don't know how they won that Super Bowl). Only 2 SB teams racked up less than 40 sacks and only 3 teams produced less than 30 turnovers. I think it is safe to say that creating pressure and turnovers is a solid way to build a Super Bowl defense.
I also found that 7 of the 10 Super Bowl teams had a top 10 defense based on points against. So while a top 10 defense is not mandatory to win a Super Bowl it seems one of the most common factors (along with great QB play). The only exceptions were the Giants who somehow found a way to win games win it mattered, the Colts who had a phenomenal offense, and the Saints who had a great offense and ranked #2 in turnovers proving the defense was better than the traditional rankings. The correlation between turnover rankings and pts rankings is hard to ignore. The only outlier seems to be the 2009 Saints team. Fox and Allen failed to show consistency in pts and yards rankings so I do have some concern in that area based on the past, but my hope is that we can create a pressure focused, turnover oriented defense and the overall performance will fall into place.
Conclusions:
If you go by the stats it looks like the Broncos could average between 35-40 sacks a year and around 30 turnovers, a significant improvement from what we have seen recently. I don't believe it is unrealistic to think that there could be a year or two where the defense can perform to the "Super Bowl" levels we have seen in the past 10 years especially because I think the defensive emphasis will be on sacks and turnovers more than anything else. Neither Fox's Panthers nor Allen's time with the Saints proved to average a top 10 defense based on points and yards rankings but they definitely racked up the sacks and created turnovers, something that looks like a pretty good recipe for winning.
Overall, players, character and scheme all combine into an identity. You want the type of players that play the way you want them to and fit the scheme you are trying to execute. It looks the FO is looking for guys to fit the aggressive identity we want to have on defense. I think the goal is to have fast, athletic guys who will be able to create pressure and turnovers as a collective unit and it looks like we have a good start to putting together a group of guys who can create some havoc for the opposing offense and produce a winning defense.
GO BRONCOS!!
Stats From:
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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Comments
first!
no but seriously, I can see a ton of play-making potential for this team next season.
Playoffs!?!? Playoffs!?!? Don't Talk About Playoffs!?!?
Nice post
The one worry I have is that one or two rookie mistakes per game (and they will happen) could end up making a very good 2011 Broncos D look mediocre (or bad again). I’m keeping my fingers crossed that the rookies will be able to contribute at a high level almost immediately, but if we have no training camp or preseason, I would wager that they won’t be able to do so.
Thanks
And I definitely share your worries about the rookies making mistakes. I can’t believe they could perform much worse than last year so I still have hope that the talent will make up for some of their mistakes. I wholly expect a middle of the road defense and would be happy with that as long as I see improvement and not deterioration throughout the year
by jshaw546 on May 27, 2011 7:37 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Nice post
I too just hope for improvement throughout this season.
A little nasty on defense would be nice.
Mistakes happen
and so my hopes for next years D gelling is not as high as some on here recently. They are young (other than Champ, Goody and Dawk) and I am very inspired about where we are headed, however I am with you in doubting they can reach that high level this year.
A little nasty on defense would be nice.
If they can at least
be around the TE or somewhere near the run within five yardsof the line of scrimmage, that would be an improvement :(
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Nice post
I think it’s not outlandish to think we can get 40 sacks and 30 turnovers this year. With the additions of Von Miller and Elvis Dumervil, our sacks will sky rocket. With all that added pressure, our secondary should be a lot closer to its 3rd place ranking of 2009. Also, with our secondary facing the ball more this year, they’ll be in position to turn those pressures into interceptions.
One small note to add. Where you said Foxy Bear took his Panthers D from 3rd worst to a top ten unit, it should be noted that he took the very worst defense in the league and turned it into the 2nd best defense in his first year. Panthers ranked 31st in yards allowed (out of 31 teams) in 2001 then all the way to 2nd in 2002. In points per game, they went from 28th to 5th.
I only point this out because I think it’s note worthy. In fact, it’s pretty amazing. He took the last place defense, like we were last year, and turned it into the 2nd ranked defense. He added Julius Peppers with the #2 pick. We added Von Miller. But we also add 2009’s sack leader, Elvis Dumervil. Advantage = 2011 Denver Broncos.
Foxy took the Panthers to the SB in his 2nd year. The offense he took over was ranked 30th. Advantage = Clearly the Denver Broncos.
I don’t think Fox had much help in the Carolina front office. I think we could do very well a lot earlier than a lot of people think.
Von. Doom. Pow!
by Rodney A on May 27, 2011 8:53 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Thanks Rodney.
That turnaround was crazy. I kinda melded the rankings of points and yards with that 3rd ranking. Lol. I feel wry optimistic about the turnaround next year but I am also trying to curb my expectations a little bit. I figure with 3 starting rookies and a shortened offseason it may take longer than i want.
I totally agree on the Carolina FO. They never seemed to go out and get big time players and definitely don’t seem to have as much motivation to get great players as The Stool.
by jshaw546 on May 27, 2011 9:07 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
From what I've gathered Fox was blindsided or backdoored by the Front Office more than a few times...
I sincerely hope that doesn’t happen with his tenure in Denver and I’ll bet it was a topic of the 13 hour interview…Fox knows his job, it’s the higher ups that need to stand behind their HC and help him with every thing he needs within the limits…Carolina stingy? I think so…
a thing i noticed
that Fox didn’t have consistency in the D ranking from year to year. seemed to change every other year from very good to decent rankings, this you pointed out and i agree it could be a little worrying but the Panthers were making playoff appearances in spite of lower rankings. to me this means at the end of the day they still got the job done and took home the W, 2009 super bowl winning Saints were that way. to me this is very encouraging.
by veggiezaffer on May 28, 2011 2:55 AM MDT up reply actions
That was the one thing that alarmed me
I hope that our front office will keep the players that deserve to be kept and that inconsistency will be eliminated. As i was looking through the years I remember a lot of different players who made starts on the D which may have contributed to that flip flopping
by jshaw546 on May 28, 2011 1:54 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I love it when people, non negative people, point out flaws. Kudos
I, too, worry about the inconsistency.
If I put on my Orange and Blue glasses, I’d say he didn’t have help from the front office. And I want to believe that. But was that all? Is that really the reason for such high highs and then the immediate low the following year?
I’m not sure. But I love to see when a non-negative person points to a very real concern. And this is a concern.
Von. Doom. Pow!
my point was
that even and often inspite of their “off” years they still are making it to the playoffs. agreed still a concern
by veggiezaffer on May 29, 2011 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions
My take on the Panthes' is they are somewhat stingy...
Peppers who should have been considered a franchise player let go to the Bears? That would be like letting Elvis Dumervil go…I’d be mad as hell. That’s just a smattering of what they did…The Broncos have to be willing to sign players for what they are worth if we are ever to be contenders and Elway here, it should help even though he probably doesn’t have any say in money matters…
actually if you look at the points it is very consistent it was in top 15 the entire time
That top 15 gives you a shot at the playoffs every year if thats as far as you fall thats fantastic .
Thanks jshaw for the thought provoking post...
First thing that comes to mind is defensive points per game given up. I want a defense that is agressive, mean and plays smart together in continuity and a passion for winning. It’s tough when teams go in a rut and try to pull themselves out. Only true leadership can accomplish that. Give me a team that allows only 17-19 points a game and I will show you a championship caliber team. With Tim Tebow’s offense (3 starts at the end) they averaged 25 points per game? Has Kyle Orton ever in a 3 game stint averaged that many points? I don’t think so. With Tebow at the helm and a speedy/turnover creating defense it is possible to go all the way…
by bfree2bronc on May 27, 2011 12:04 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
KO averaged 28.7 ppg in a 3 game stetch in 2009
wks 12-14: 26 vs NYG, 44 vs KC, 16 vs IND.
by DE_BroncoFan on May 27, 2011 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah that hugh 44 point game against the Chiefs helped...
Basically my point is; With Tebow in and a solid running game with an OLine playing together the 2nd year, I can’t see any reason why we can’t average 23-24 points per game if the defense does their part and get’s the turnovers and creates points themselves. If that happens we will be in the running for the AFC West, because imo Tebow won’t let the team get down even if we lose 2 or 3 in a row…He has the nack of building confidence in is players…
My thoughts are
If you can create turnovers and keep teams under 20 you will win games.
by jshaw546 on May 27, 2011 12:21 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
why does a great discussion about the defense
somehow inevitably lead to TEBOW!! i knew someone was going to say it… common! i am excited for him, if not still reserved. for whatever reason Broncos fans tend to undervalue Orton
by veggiezaffer on May 28, 2011 4:29 AM MDT up reply actions
Because, like John Elway in his time, Tim Tebow will be the catylist of winning for the Broncos...
When the offense is down, he will rally them back. When the defense is down he will be rooting like no other…That’s Tim Tebow…
im so tired of this misinformation
Tebow and the offense averaged 22 ppg during his 3 games stretch .
One of those tds you counted for the offense was actually a special teams score OUR ONLY ONE OF THE YEAR
High scoring teams usually have a lot of help for the amount of help that Orton had we actually scored a ton of points
turnovers
field position
special teams/defensive scores
Our offense the first 13 games had none of those things but still managed points because we had one of the best deep passing games in the league
During Tims 3 games he made a few nice plays but against Oakland the offense scored 14 points off of 3 Oakland turnovers
against SD one of the Tds came from a turnover
You add in the special teams TD and thats 5 scores that came from another aspect of our team making a play something we didnt have the first 13 games .
We forced 18 turnovers for the season 5 of them came during the final 3 games .
I just dont know where this stuff comes from . There is not one guy who generates a ton of points in the NFL . The highest scoring teams benefits from being put in great situations by the other phases of the game and then taking advantage.
Ive yet to see anyone give a honest answer on how many points we shouldve scored with the line ,running game, and injury problems .
by Hoopforia on May 30, 2011 7:42 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
C'mon Hoop
You know those turnovers and special teams play were because Tebow was starting. He excites the whole team and cheers for them.
/sarcasm
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
let's extend this comparison to the 2002 Panthers a bit - How does the 2011 Broncos D compare to a man?
LDE – Ayers vs Pepper – advantage CAR
LDT – Vickerson vs Jenkins – advantage CAR (Jenkins is a 4 time probowler and 2 time all-pro)
RDT – ??? (Thomas?) ??? vs Buckner – advantage CAR since we have no idea who we will even have to play DT
RDE – Doom vs Rucker – advantage DEN
SAM – Miller vs Fields – slight advantage DEN. Fields was a 2 time Prob-bowler and first round (#13) pick. Miller has not played an NFL down yet, but has a greater upside than Fields.
MIKE – Irving/Mays vs Morgan – advantage CAR. Morgan, the #11 pick in the 2001 draft, went to a probowl and was on his way to a very solid career when injuries cut him down.
WILL – DJ vs Navies – big advantage DEN
LCB – Champ vs Cousin – big advantage DEN
RCB – Cox/Goodman/Squid vs Howard – PUSH (Howard was average, Goodman is above average but aging, Cox might be behind bars, Squid is unproven)
FS – Hill/Moore vs Grant – advantage CAR. Grant was above average if not spectacular, but he did start every game for ten straight years
SS – Dawk/McBath/Carter vs Minter – advantage CAR. Minter was well above average and did many things well (pass rush, coverage and tackling). Dawk is slowing, McBath is brittle and Carter is unproven.
Overall – Advantage CAR
I think Squid has put his name in the hat so to speak at the end of the season...
I wonder if he could cover receivers on the right side? I feel pretty confident he could play the slot reciever in the nickle…
I agree
Squid had 2 picks and 18 tackles in his limited playing time. I wouldn’t be surprised to see more of him this year
The people who don't like you in this world fall into two categories: the envious and the stupid. The stupid will learn to love you, but the envious will always hate you.
Representing Bronco Nation in a state filled with Charger fans since 1987.
I want a Broncos' jersey that says VonDoom on the back and has a mushroom cloud for the number
by BroncoFaithful on Jun 2, 2011 5:40 PM MDT up reply actions
We've lacked identity on defense since Big Al left us......
hope we get it back.
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Too bad we drafted Irving to be the MLB
Looks like Mays isn’t going to get to be the starter without some competition and improvement. He is a hard worker but i wonder if he has the talent to start as the MLB in a 4-3. I know Fox and Allen want guys that can cover too so Mays will have to improve
by jshaw546 on May 27, 2011 5:41 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
If he gets beat for the job
Then EFX drafted well enough to improve the team.
Also, I think your projected numbers would put us near the top of the league. While that would be terrific, I too think it’s a little optimistic.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
I wouldn't count mays out just yet...
And a player like Nate Irvin can motivate a guy like Mays to strive to get better…Mays has a body like ‘Mike Tyson’ and has trouble getting his jersey sleeves over his thick muscular arms! He hit like a Mack truck too and if you don’t believe me, go and watch the Moeaki hit again. The problem Mays has is he focuses to much on the offensive backfield and let’s TEs burn him. His coverage skills need to be honed better and if he is going to be the ILB, he better develop the leadership qualities that go along with the job…Nate is ferocious hitter himself and possesses better coverage skills coming out of college, but he is raw and will take some time to learn the NFL…He could bust out of the gate and take the position, but it won’t be easy for the younger Nate…
Here is the Linebacker depth chart as it stands right now...
On the linebacker depth chart:
“Right now it looks like D.J. (Williams) probably at Will, (Joe) Mays would be a Mike and Von Miller at Sam.”
Great post man.
You backed up you thoughts well and i think it all boils down to tge passing game. All sacks and most turnovers occur on passing downs, because this is a pass-driven league (hence great QB play being a superbowl win necessity). Its great to be big enough to hold the line on crucial short yardage plays but by abd large teams generate points from huge plays in the passi.g game and breakaway runs. Teams just dont win by getting 3 yards a carry all game long. I think were moving in the right direction by going lighter and faster and more aggressive. We’ll resemble a bend but dont break defense and if we generate as many turnovers as were hoping than we’ll bend enough to break on the ball, and that sounds like a great defense to me. We dont have to be the biggest, toughest, meanest defense in tge league, but our players need to act like they are. Confidence wins so many of the little mental victories on the field and we just drafted a boatload of confident instinctive players that read and react and trust their eyes. With propper coaching and preparation this defense will be scary lethal. Its up to Fox and Allen to prepare our warriors for battle, and i like their odds. :D
"It is better to be rougly right than precisely wrong." - John Maynard Keynes
"Excellence can be obtained; if you care more than others think is wise…risk more than others think is safe…dream more than others think is practical…expect more than others think is possible." - Anonymous Author
by Alexander Wall on May 28, 2011 6:01 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
Thanks and good stuff
I agree that coaching has a lot to do with success of players. I am so glad McD and Wink are gone. Neither of them showed they could get the best play out of the talented players we drafted. I truly think that the Allen and Fox have a plan and I trust that Fox will be able to develop these guys to be studs
by jshaw546 on May 28, 2011 7:25 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
A few more numbers
Here are some numbers for our ‘11 draft class and they are staggering! Its easy to see how Fox turned around the panthers so fast and he’ll do the same here. We stunk on sacks,turnovers,backfield penetration but look at the combined career stats for our 6 defensive picks. Miller,Moore,carter,mohumed,beals,irving.
sacks-88 !!!
tackles for loss-174 !!!!!! Beals(56) had more than miller(50) not bad for 7th rd
Interceptions-36 !!!
Forced fumbles-31 !!
The futures lookin bright lets give Fox a chance and our support.
Great post
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