Breaking Down the Roster - Part One: Quarterback
by intelanalyst on Jun 23, 2011 3:56 PM MDT
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PrintOpening Statement
I recently finished revamping my statistics website at QueueStats.com, which attempts to quantify the production on the field into relatively simplistic measurements that accurately rank teams and players.
I didn't hate on Jamaal Charles, who ranked 2nd in the 2010 regular season for running backs, because he plays for Kansas City. Nor did I sabotage Phillip Rivers' stats because he plays for San Diego. Rivers ranked as the 5th most efficient quarterback in 2010.
Instead, I created formulas for the whole league with the intent to better understand what Denver needs to do to improve. Unfortunately for Denver, 2010 was a pretty bad year record-wise and the stats indicate that all over the place. So I will start with my series on the roster with the quarterback for Denver.
The Stats
Kyle Orton played 13 games in 2010. He completed 58.8 percent of his passes, threw for 20 touchdowns, had 13 total turnovers, was sacked 34 times and had a 7.3 yards per throw average. For the most part, he played well. It is difficult to say what his performance might have been with at least an average defense, a healthy running back and a healthy offensive line.
Instead, those things were not present, forcing Orton to shoulder all of the responsibility for guiding Denver's offense. He had 498 attempts for the year or 38.3 per game, good enough for 10th in the NFL despite only playing 13 games. If he had stayed on his pace for the year, he would have had roughly 613 attempts, behind only Drew Brees and Peyton Manning. Since he is not on their level, naturally he struggled down the stretch during the season and in critical moments during games.
I am neither supporting nor degrading his performance, but looking at the facts. Orton is not a bad quarterback. The difference between him and Jake Plummer, who took Denver to the AFC Championship game, is that Plummer had a great defense and a running game. Orton did his best with what he had and with his ability as a quarterback. Unfortunately for Denver, it wasn't good enough and part of the reason Denver was 3-10 when he was replaced. Orton finished with and efficiency of 73.0, good enough for 19th in the NFL for 2010.
- In 5 of his 13 games, he had over 40 attempts with two of those over 50 attempts
- He had 5 games with at least one touchdown and no turnovers - in only one (at Arizona) of these games did he surpass the 40 attempt mark
- He had only 1 multiple interception game and only 3 multiple turnover games
- He had 5 games with an accuracy under 60 percent with 4 under 50 percent
- He had 5 games with at least 64 percent accuracy, with 3 over 70 percent
- In 7 games he was sacked at least 3 times
- In 6 games he was sacked either once or zero times
- He had a QB rating of 89.7 in home games
- He had a QB rating of 58.9 in away games
So where does this put Denver with Kyle Orton as the veteran choice for quarterback?
Despite having a new head coach, most of the offense remains in tact. The biggest question comes with his supporting cast. Without diving into the running back, wide receiver/tight end and offensive line situations, I can tell you with 100 percent certainty that it takes a team to win. I know, deep stuff, but that is as simple as I can make it.
I love Tim Tebow as a person, as a leader, as a football player and even as a quarterback. However, he needs more time. Kyle Orton showed in the Kansas City game in Denver what is possible. That game, Denver actually played defense and also ran the ball effectively. Kyle Orton is still the best option as of right now. His experience and ability to manage the game is very important to a young team coming together. The stats indicate he may never be as good as Brees, Roethlisberger, Rivers or maybe even Matt Ryan, but he can play well.
The Verdict
Kyle Orton should remain the starter until Tim Tebow clearly demonstrates to the coaching staff he is the quarterback for the future. Much of his success, or Tebow's, will be determined by the players around him. I will normally use more stats and provide an actual solution, but too much of what happened in 2010 revolved around Denver suffering from a huge void in talent at almost every position and too many injuries to key players.
Next up, Part Two: Running Backs
This is a Fan-Created Comment on MileHighReport.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff of MHR
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The first option already exists.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
dont all the options exist?
oh wait I get what you mean nevermind :)
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
And nice job Luke
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
Tebow has had his year to develop and now it is time to fish or cut bait...
The only way I would start Orton is if I thought he could take the team to the playoffs. That’s what I thought, it ain’t happening so why bother with him? It’s Tebow time…Now, if Orton had another year on his contract then I might let Tebow develop some more while Kyle does his usual thing…
Ya we need to cut something!!!!!!!!!!!
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
My main goal was to be as objective as possible
Personally, I would love to let Orton be a starter elsewhere, get a 2nd or 3rd + 5th rounder (or something of that nature) and completely rebuild Denver. However, Denver does need stability and Tebow still needs training. Again, this opinion is based off of stats that we have right now.
We don’t know how Tebow will be as a starter and we haven’t seen him in training camp yet this year. I went with the safe pick simply because I haven’t seen enough. With that said, I am with you. I want to see him lead Denver.
by intelanalyst on Jun 23, 2011 9:12 PM MDT up reply actions
I get the objective and reasoning of the post intel, I just don't want another year of what if.
If EFX think Orton is the man, then I’m on board, not because I want it, but because I am a Broncos fan first and foremost. I just have a problem with Orton’s contract that has only one year left on it. If we play him and the team is mediocre, say, 6-10 or worse, then what have we accomplished? Sure Tebow will get more time to develop which is precious, but we will lose any value we have in Orton as trade bait. Orton could have one of those seasons where you just say…Wow, that was ingedible and we do make the playoffs. I could see it happening with our new defensive scheme and the players acquired (not to say the FAs we’ll get) and a run heavy offense (zone blocking with that crazy guy Franklin) not hanging Orton out to dry forcing to have to have pass on every down. It could happen and like I said, if EFX feel he’s the man then I stand behind him 100% like it or not…
Tebow may have time to learn under that scenario but he won't be getting any 1st team reps which will limit his experience and learning.
Which could mean he may not come out as sharp as people hoped he would by sitting another year on the bench.
I for one think the experience he’d gain getting reps will go much farther in proving whether or not he can handle a full season and improve over a full season than not.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jun 24, 2011 6:31 AM MDT up reply actions
Yep, he is a guy that is better under live fire....and thats what we have ...a vet who is great in practice and average under live fire....
vs a rookie who is not as good in practice but gets better under live fire…in a nut shell.
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
the part I don't get is...
“Tebow still needs training”. That’s not a data-driven conclusion.
I think Tebow’s already proven that putting him in the game will not make his skills regress. He improved from game 14 to game 16 last season.
I also think it’s pretty well established that game experience is superior to practice-only experience.
So, by keeping Orton in the game, you’re also declaring that it’s worth Tebow progressing more slowly than he would if he were playing.
The only way that’s worth it is if you’re either willing to give Orton a long-term contract, or if you think Orton can get the Broncos to the super bowl this year.
by tunesmith on Jun 24, 2011 1:48 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree tune
I get the Orton support. He’s a classy hardworking blue collar guy who did very well stats wise this year. What I don’t get is how he helps the team this year (short or long term) with his current contract situation.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jun 24, 2011 6:32 AM MDT up reply actions
Lie, Lies and DAMN statistics....look at the actual games and tell me who has more upside?
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Oh I completely agree that Tebow has more upside. My comment wasn't in advocating Orton as the starter.
I actually disagree with the idea that Orton will help us win more than Tebow in the immediate future. I was mainly agreeing about his contract situation not helping the team at all if he starts. Maybe I should have been more clear in the other reasons I don’t think he should start for us next year.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jun 24, 2011 6:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Why the hell does Denver need stability???? I keep hearing this, and its a crock of crap...
We are essentially a young, developing team. We are NOWHERE near a play off team and people want us to start a middling, average veteran at QB??? This makes no sense. We need to let these young guys develop together and gel. Starting Orton makes no developmental sense for this team…NONE.
We dont need to win, we need to get these young guys better.
Stability? What??? So we can stay a 4-12 to 6-10 team. Makes a whole lot of sense!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
by boydy2669 on Jun 24, 2011 11:04 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sure
It is a way better option to risk our future franchise QB behind an untested line with new players that don’t know what they are doing. Throw you hope for the future in there and hope he does not go down.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Jun 24, 2011 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions
But I dont think it is fair to throw Orton out there as cannon fodder in that scenario as well...
Kyle needs a fresh start, and Tebow’s toughness and mobility will give that line some time to develop.
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
I think that is a bit extreme
just like the chance of a player in Tebow’s shape being injured.
We have a QB that is familiar with the surroundings, playbook, players, and has a feel for how the team responds. This is where your stability comes in. The more knowns we have the better we can judge the unknowns we are bringing in. Now, I do feel that TT can be the future of our team and I don’t think he needs to start this season for that to be true.
Orton gives us the best chance to give Tebow a well oiled machine to come out and run our teams game.
Having said that, if we can get good value for KO in a trade then by all means we should trade him. That would be a win win.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Jun 24, 2011 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
oops
didn’t finish my thought……. the chance of Tebow being seriously injured is remote.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Jun 24, 2011 11:59 AM MDT up reply actions
actually the way this guy takes hits... he'll very likely get hurt a LOT
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA
by Whidbey Bronco on Jul 1, 2011 12:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Let's not forget Tebow is also familiar with the surroundings, playbook, players and has a feel for how the team responds as well.
He’s been in the system a year now so he’s no stranger to how it should go now.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jun 24, 2011 6:58 PM MDT up reply actions
But that ignores my whole point
Yes, Tebow does have experience in the system. As a comparison to the experience Orton has it isn’t much. My argument is less about who is playing QB and much more about how well we can asses the job our other new players are doing. I understand the viewpoint that you let Tebow get in there and the whole bonding growing together bit. I would even buy into that if we didn’t already know that Tebow is also learning and needs to concentrate on mechanics, not team building. Before you beat me up about how his natural motion has been working and he has already been working on that, I know. Once again my fallback point is that he can use more and it won’t hurt him in losing some first string snaps. I believe that working pocket presence and mechanics can better be done without the first string snaps. Check Peyton Mannings workouts to build his footwork, etc…. He is in a building alone with trainers.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
The only thing I think in response to your comment is that I do think it will delay
his progress losing 1st string snaps. I am also sure Tebow has been working alone in a building with trainers on his mechanics footwork pocket presence etc. In fact he has even said as much.
I’m not sure why it has to be only during the season that he has to work on it when he has been working on it all offseason as well.
I know some are worried that he isn’t ready and needs to sit like Aaron Rodgers or Rivers but I think he’s the kind of guy that won’t let himself fail once he gets his opportunity.
Tim Tebow wears 3WM and drinks Tuscan whole milk.
by BroncoMath101 on Jun 25, 2011 9:07 AM MDT up reply actions
Sean, at the end of the season the OLine progressively got better...
I think Clady was still feeling the effects from his Patella injury at the start of the season and wasn’t at his normal 100% healthwise, but got more strength in the knee as the season wore. Harris on the otherside was basically in the same situation and not counting the 2 rookies, Walton and Beadles learning the NFL speed and game. The OLine was a lot better in games 14-16 than they were in games 1-3. I look for them to continue to gel together as a ‘unit’ with more practice/game time together. Now, we have this nasty, relentless mauler on the right side in Orlando Franklin who loves to smash defenders’ faces on running plays. I see a better OLine in ‘11 and feel the running game will be an integral part of our success where it wasn’t even pedestrian last year…It was terrible and a major reason Kyle Orton and the offense struggled…
by bfree2bronc on Jun 24, 2011 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions
yessir
I have often said that myself, though you were much more thorough about it than I ever was. That was a bit of spouting off on my part and not fair to our O line whom I feel did progress and will continue to get better.
:P
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Jun 24, 2011 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions
The It Factor
Don’t play it down. Kyle just doesn’t have it. you can’t always read the numbers. Some guys just can’t play when its time to play. When ever those important moments came up where the guy had to show his true heart, Kyle folded. He just doesn’t have what it takes to get to the next level. And by the next level, I mean win.
Finish or cut bait after 3 games? Seriously?
I believe Elway was given 3 years. It isn’t fair to Tebow to expect more than his three years.
Nor should he be expected to carry this team-in-trauma on his shoulders.
Fact: Less Governemnt = Common Sense
NFLPA should be disallowed. Period.
IDK dude
John Fox said that there will be a true Quarterback competition so Kyle is not guaranteed the starting position anymore like some people like to believe. If Fox values the intagables it will be Tebow. If he values experience it will be Orton. But if either one messes up in the season I dont think that Fox would be afraid to pull either in favor of the other
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
Ortons already been declared the starter whoever was around last season and still does not understand this please raise your hand
The starting job is not some vacant spot waiting to be filled by 3 candidates .
1st string qb is the starter
Orton is first string
Tebow is second string
Quinn is 3rd string
Now this can change and Fox and Elway are open to changing it if Tebow or Quinn can beat out Orton .
Some people argued the exact same thing when Mcdaniels said the exact same thing last year.
Orton through the bye week accounted for over 85% of our yards and 12 of 16 offensive tds FOR HALF OF THE SEASON HE WAS THE OFFENSE until injuries took there toll.
Tebow and Quinn deserves there shot I would hate to be on a team where as a young player you cant ever test your skills and see where your stand and have a shot at the starting job. This is a important camp and it should be a good battle.
by Hoopforia on Jun 23, 2011 11:16 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
McDaniels did not have a Quarterback competition last year
and its really easy Kyle to get that many yards in a PASS ONLY offense
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
by Taylor K on Jun 24, 2011 7:43 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just a note
It was a quarterback competition last year. Link, link, link, link. If you want more, search “potent quotables competition” for tons of links.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jun 24, 2011 8:00 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
It really wasn't Max....that was total lip service...and Tebow was never in it...maybe between QUinn and Orton but never Tebow.
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
by boydy2669 on Jun 24, 2011 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
If you say so
I just see no evidence showing otherwise. There was massive amounts of shifting, from Brandstater dropping for 3rd to 4th to gone, to Tebow moving up from 3rd to 2nd. The reason many people don’t really see it that way was because it wasn’t even close in terms of the competition.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jun 24, 2011 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Tebow was nowhere near Orton last year.
The coaches said it. The writers said it. Everybody said it. They said Orton was far and away the best QB in camp last year.
-
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
by AZDynamics on Jun 26, 2011 9:39 AM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
Ya I gotta agree with boydy man that didnt sound like a QB comp to me
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
by Taylor K on Jun 27, 2011 8:59 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
People want to hear what they want to hear
Nothing against you, I do it, boydy does it. I do know the depth chart changed during TC and the pre-season, thought the #1 QB didn’t. After reading every quote I could find from TC and pre-season, the players and coaches seemed unanimous in who was the best QB. That has changed since then, and with Orton likely gone, it doesn’t matter, but with the players and coaches knowing who the best was last TC, and the #2, 3 and 4 spot constantly in flux, that’s a sign of change and competition. Though since none of us had the chance to ask McD about it, but when he was asked, he seemed pretty open about, but I can’t say what he thought, just what I can piece together from quotes people said and what happened to determine my opinion.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Post all the links you choose, Max
but McD quite verbally said very early on that Orton was the guy to beat.
Fact: Less Governemnt = Common Sense
NFLPA should be disallowed. Period.
Yes, you are correct
I won’t challenge that, but you have to understand, every QB competition has someone on top. This year, if Orton stays, he will be on top again. Someone starting on top, doesn’t mean they stay there. Look at Tebow and Quinn, Tebow over took Quinn in the competition last season for the #2 spot.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
I appreciate what you are trying to say here
But Plummer is head and shoulders above Orton. I don’t hate Orton but to say he is equal with arguably one of the best QB’s to wear a broncos uniform is hard.
Davis and Smith to the Hall!
"Teamwork divides the task and double the success."
- Unknown
by Jon Tollerud on Jun 23, 2011 11:18 PM MDT reply actions 3 recs
I think Orton is basically Plummer without the mobility. Plummer was smart, competitive, and had a good arm, same as Orton. He just wasn’t elite from the pocket, and neither is Orton. But it was the mobility that set Plummer apart.
agreed tune
Plummer could be an ugly player too. I am not sure Orton is as good, but def the same type of smarts playing the game.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
So explain to me why a guy like Tebow with FAR superior athleticism than Plummer cant be FAR better than Orton?
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
by boydy2669 on Jun 24, 2011 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Never said he can't
We don’t know. It may be he never picks up the speed of the NFL. It may be he just never gets a good feel for the pocket.
He is an unknown right now.
I don’t believe I made any comparisons to Tebow.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Jun 24, 2011 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry mate, it was a more a question to the greater community and a lead off point from your comment...
You have been nothing but pretty fair in your comments as always mate!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
He seemed to be up to speed in his last 3 starts
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
Tebow's had three games not 3 years to get a feel for the pocket.
And perhaps we should remember that there needs to be a pocket first.
Fact: Less Governemnt = Common Sense
NFLPA should be disallowed. Period.
by Boiler etc on Jun 28, 2011 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
Not to mention that John Fox's system...
…and philosophy on how he uses his QB’s is likely to be enormously different from McDaniels’ cluster-****.
Tebow has experience in McDaniels’ system only; Orton has experience with several different systems. That alone gives Orton an edge, and it’s why he’s the lead dog (for now) QB competition. Tebow’s ability to learn and adapt will determine if Orton remains the lead dog…
"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."
-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851
http://futurenotes.blogspot.com
by Tomorrows Blues on Jul 7, 2011 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree...Plummer was a play maker...always has been and a far better athlete than Orton.
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
he was 10000000000 times better
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
I wouldn't go THAT far, but yes, Plummer WAS better than KO...
"If we do not prepare for ourselves the role of the hammer, there will be nothing left but that of the anvil."
-- Otto von Bismarck, 1851
http://futurenotes.blogspot.com
by Tomorrows Blues on Jul 7, 2011 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions
I just said better athlete, but mentally Orton is superior.
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Is it Free Agency yet? Wake me up when it starts!
Ya I would rather have Plummer be the QB then Tebow
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
or Orton 4 that matter
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
Orton is a known quantity.
He has shown what he can and can’t do. KO’s strengths and weaknesses have been debated ad naseum on MHR. When backed by a good D and a solid running game (when he was a Bear) he can get you to the playoffs. Fox may very well stick with the known quantity.
TT is mostly an unknown quantity. You really can’t learn much (or project much) from an NFL QB’s first 3 starts.
http://www.milehighreport.com/2011/4/18/2118061/what-can-we-learn-about-a-qb-from-3-nfl-starts
The real question comes down to the whether Fox and McCoy want to dance with the devil they know, KO, or roll the dice with TT, who is so full of potential that he won over a majority of the Broncos fanbase with 3 tantalizing starts, despite only winning one of those games.
Forest meet chainsaw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
The question is who here feels like Kyle Orton can lead us to the promised land? Really ask yourselves that hard question....
Because thats what EFX will be doing.
There is no guarantee Tebow can, but at least we need to give the kid a REALISTIC shot at becoming our long term starter.
I 100% feel Orton can not lead us anywhere with where our team is developmentally, and if anything, he will hold the development of the team back.
We need to let the young guys play and develop under live fire….shoot, as much as it pains me, I would rather see Decker start than Gaffney or Royal, Thomas over Lloyd if it means building a red hot offense for years to come. I would rather take the licks with Franklin than resign Harris if that what needs to be done.
I am sure many of us feel last year was a COMPLETELY wasted season….I dont want this one to be.
I can handle losses as long as our young guys are getting better. I cant handle losses if its veterans screwing the pooch on consistent basis!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
The statement John Elway made is still ringing in my ear Ben...
He basically said they are looking at a three year plan to get to the championships, so that tells me they feel they are nowhere close to getting there and it will take time to develop these young athletes. I agree with youo and like I said earlier, it’s time to fish or cut bait…We’ve been cutting bait for years now and it’s time to go fishing. The frustrations that we have towards Kyle Orton are a three-headed monster and even his wielding sword can’t defeat that beast. 1) He has had to play with an aging OLine in ‘09 (Weigmann and Hamilton) while McD/McCoy tried to impliment a new running scheme (Power) and it struglled forcing the pass more than it should. 2) Starting off ’10 with 2 new rookies on the OLine with Clady coming off an injury and now totally 100% healed (imo) caused more problems on offense for Orton, not counting a dismal defense not helping. 3) Our running game was in the tank and that didn’t help our offense or Kyle either…Tebow for that goes…Ben, I want Tebow to take it for the good or the worse and start anew, but if EFX feel orton is the better option I will be on board with that too…
by bfree2bronc on Jun 24, 2011 12:42 PM MDT up reply actions
I will be on board too...I support the team first and foremost...I wont agree with the decision though as I think it sets the team back...
I have faith in Fox getting the defense right QUICKLY….and feel Tebow can be just as effective as Orton, but maybe thats just me. AS always, love the thoughts my friend!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
If T.Dilfer could win a Super Bowl, you're damn right Orton could in the same type of situation.
I think Orton could do a good enough job with improved o-line play a running game, and a good defense. Are the Broncos ready for a S.B run or are they a few years away, that’s the question the coaching staff has to answer. I could see Fox starting Orton if they thought they could make a run this year, but i do think they’ll see it that way. The Broncos have a lot of new talent on field this year and that’s the reason i think T.Tebow gets too start. He can grow as a player and leader of this young team while they all grow together as a unit. That is what i believe to be better for the Broncos in the long run. I would keep Orton as a back up if i could, depending on how much it would cost the team. If it was too much i would trade him away for picks or even a NT and picks:P
Warning: If you're reading this it has been censored.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
by CPT.Caveman on Jun 24, 2011 3:59 PM MDT up reply actions 7 recs
Nice post Cavey!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Yeah it's pretty much a carbon copy of what bfree2bronc said.
I guess i should have read the comment below yours:P
Warning: If you're reading this it has been censored.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
I agree with that completely nice comment recd
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
I do
Orton is absolutely good enough to “lead us to the promise land”. Living in NFC-East territory and watching Orton and Eli Manning, or comparing Orton to previous SB QBs like Dilfer, Brad Johnson, early Brady, early Big Ben… yes, I’m totally confident that with a good team around him Orton is plenty good enough.
You want to sacrifice the present to get a better idea of what we might have on the future… others (including myself) think that the way teams get better is by incremental improvements, not massive overhauls. I feel throwing a bunch of young kids out to the wolves who are inferior players (if the kids are better, by all means start them!) is a sure-fire way to create confusion on the field and runs the risk of creating a losing culture, and is not conducive to their player development long-term. I also don’t think its impossible to develop players on the bench and in practice. The high frequency of injuries in the NFL also make it likely folks will get their shot regardless of who starts initially.
If we can get a bunch of value for Orton in a trade, it may well be worth taking the risk on TT. I’m all for that if that creates the most total value (present and future). But if we keep Orton because no one offers us value, and Orton is a superior player to TT in practice, etc., that Orton shuld start. The best players should play, and the wins will follow.
bf2b says it well… I’d love TT to take the reins, win the competition, and make this a non-issue. But if Orton is the better player in EFX’s eyes, than Orton should start. No free pass for TT just because he’s young and promising.
by cjfarls on Jun 27, 2011 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions 9 recs
Hmm I didnt think about it that way
the last thing I want is to develop a losing culture
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
Well said CJ. Let's turn this green
I think in our excitement over new talent we expect to see all our rookies play and make an impact. The reality is they need time. I am not a particularly patient person but I would be concerned if we started 3 or more rookies right away.
GB2
Tulogit to quit.
We saw what happened
when we started two rookies on the offensive line. They played well for rookies but that’s not inconsistent with being well below average compared to experienced players. But of course it’s easy as fans to get excited about our new toys and to forget how much improvement it takes to become even an average vet. If Tebow can beat out Orton in only his second training camp that would be both amazing and great, but even if he doesn’t I’m pretty sure that this time, if Orton gets hurt so badly as to be ineffective, we won’t wait two full games before starting Tebow in his place.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Jun 28, 2011 12:04 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
You are correct, at least statistically
I did the research here, link.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jun 28, 2011 12:18 AM MDT up reply actions
I like phrases like
“I did the research”, which shows in this instance that Orton’s no stiff. That’s why there’s so much interest in him. Other teams see him either as the missing piece or as a capable veteran who can keep them competitive while their future franchise QB gets up to speed. If other teams saw him as many of our fans do, we’d have to pay them to take over his contract. Or trade him and a draft choice for somebody else’s washed-up QB. I’m not an Orton partisan. I just think some people are being silly. I’m excited about Tebow. I think he’s well ahead of schedule. I hope he continues to surprise me and impresses enough in training camp for the Broncos to be able to get good value for Orton now rather than nothing later.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Jun 28, 2011 1:06 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Same here
I don’t think Orton is the right direction for this team, and trading him would add great value down the line, but what I don’t like is attacks that are unfounded, on any player, Orton, Tebow, anyone.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Spock, I don't think there is as much interest in Orton as we think.
Most main stream sports outlets (NBC. ESPN, Fox, etc) never have Orton has bieng one of the major QB’s talked about.
Maybe that is a function of the Broncos always being under the radar.
Maybe it is the media not having a good pulse on the issue.
In any case, we have to hope there is . But still, I don’t see us getting more than a 3rd for him.
Fact: Less Governemnt = Common Sense
NFLPA should be disallowed. Period.
Actually ESPN and NFL Network seem to be talking up Orton
Though they say he won’t be traded, but twice yesterday Orton was mentioned as one of the top commodities at QB up for trade and in FA.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
I do not feel like Kyle can lead us to the promise land
Now dont get me wrong I believe in the Denver Broncos. The Denver Broncos CAN make it to the promise land even WITH Kyle but he wouldnt be leading it our D would be or our running game or our stellar receiving core but Kyle Orton cant lead a team to the promise land
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
By the way Intel...great article and garnered some great discussion...I am not a stats guy and use the eye test....appreciate the work and REC'D!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
I rec'd and promoted to FP even though it was pro-Orton.
You have a compelling argument for sure, but my eyes have seen Orton crumble when the chips are down. The chips are down a lot in football games…we need a guy who rises to the occasion – like Elway always did and like Tebow did in his final two games last year….Tebow is no Elway, but Orton is definitely no Elway. I maintain its time to see Tebow…
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
by Tim Lynch on Jun 24, 2011 1:34 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I like this Zappa...great article that needs FP play...and you know I am in your boat as well!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Is it just me?
I don’t see this on the front page?
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
nevermind :(
can somebody remove my stupid comment please?
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
I had to look a couple of times as well mate....I like the players number series but so many of them it pushes articles down the front page pretty quickly!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Sorry. I am slow on FanPosts lately...
I only noticed it today…otherwise it would have gotten FP when it was posted, not a day and a half later. :(
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Besides...intelanalyst is a FP contributor....this should have been a FP post anyway. :P
Verbose in style, dispersion of thought, procrastination in life.
The artist formerly known as ZAPPA
Off subject a bit and no offense but why must every QB in Denver be Elway?
Elway was a once in a lifetime or Century player. I don’t think there is a QB today that can compare to him or Montana. But he is not the only man to play the position. Let’s let Tebow be Tebow, Orton be Orton. Their play stands on it;s own. I think it’s due time to let Elway retire from the field.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
I agree...let Tebow be Tebow...Orton be Orton etc...its an insult to Elway and current players to compare them!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
by boydy2669 on Jun 24, 2011 11:33 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great point
I remember last season John had a rant on MHR Radio about that. I’ve seen a lot of fans of teams like Miami, SF, Dallas and Denver always have standards that are too high for most QB’s. Let each player be who they are, there won’t be another Elway, but not every QB in Denver has to be Elway.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jun 24, 2011 11:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Guilty as charged
I have a hard time watching the Broncos without Elway man. Thats why Im always looking at our QBs hopeing they are Elways clone
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
Forget it. Elway was one of a kind.
Move on and support what we have now. Elway is 50.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
by Heeler on Jun 27, 2011 11:09 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, it's not just Denver fans
But it is something we need to work on.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jun 27, 2011 11:10 PM MDT up reply actions
For that matter I will continue to support Orton if that is the case. I pray it isn't so but Those in charge know far more than I.
I just hate that deer in the headlights look. I also hate that when it is the 4th q and we are down, I just have no confodence. I just think well,.. It’s over. Hopefully that will change this year.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
by Heeler on Jun 27, 2011 11:13 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey that's all we can do
I don’t like some players we’ve had in the past, and while I may not like them, and I am openly critical of them, I want them to succeed, because if they succeed, it helps the Broncos, which is my main hope.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jun 27, 2011 11:45 PM MDT up reply actions
Why? Because Elway won two freakin' Super Bowls, that's why.
And he took this franchise to FIVE.
If there ever was a BENCHMARK to compare Broncos QBs too it is John Freaking Elway, man!
by Tim Lynch on Jun 25, 2011 2:13 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
And I wasn’t talking about mechanics, looks, throws, yada yada. I am talking about John Elway and the indelible mark he left on the history of this franchise. THAT is what I mean by being “like” John Elway – leaving a mark on the franchise so deep and wide that the name will forever be sacred to its fans. Elway…
Then Every Yankee should be Babe Ruth. Every Tiger should be Ty Cobb.
Elway ranks that high in my opinion. There will never be another one and to compare every other QB in Denver to him is unhealthy, not to mention futile. I also feel that because of the way he went out people don’t have a realistic memory of his playing days. Yes Elway won 2 SB’s. But he lost 3. He had some pretty lean years in between those SB’s as well.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
by Heeler on Jun 25, 2011 7:19 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Blasphemous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
Truer words were never spoken my friend
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
Hey Tim......will you every give that many years to anyone else?
This isn’t the 90’s. Can we please put one foot in front of the other before calling up the benchmark? Geez
Fact: Less Governemnt = Common Sense
NFLPA should be disallowed. Period.
Thank you, Thank you Heeler!
Because the looming elephant of Elway’s image in the room, many can’t get past it.
Tebow is unique. Appreicate what you have and stop riding the elephant.
Fact: Less Governemnt = Common Sense
NFLPA should be disallowed. Period.
Nice job & rec'd!
Your home and away QB ratings don’t look right. For the season KO’s rating was 87.5.
OK, so Plummer was not all that good either
I’m on board with that.
j/k.
I remember he had a beef with Shanahan and then it was all she wrote...
I was one of the fans who thought Cutler should have had a year to develop and compete in TC the next year, but Shanny had different ideas…Oops, they didn’t work…
they kinda did
I thought Cutler was pretty good when he didnt mess us over 4 the Bears
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
Woah, what's up with the poll?
That was running dead even up till last night between options three and four. Now option four has a 40 point lead. Did one of you admins get drunk and fall asleep on the voting button last night?
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
If only we could cheat the polls
Sadly it is beyond my powers.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
I'm really tired
of the debate that keeps TT in the mode where he is “developing” by sitting on the bench! “The bench”, is never going to help Tim be more ready to take it out on the field.
He needs “game time development”, and that is how he will improve. I believe that his off the field development can only go so far and then it is the in game experience that he needs to become great! Waiting another year to put Tim in is a mistake in my opinion.
It is better to keep silent, and appear to be wise, then to ramble on and remove all doubt! The Wisest Man, Solomon.
Agreed!
Of course we couldn’t have throwed him to the lions in his rokie year. But now it’s time to get some GAME experience!
I bleed Orange & Blue.
by Fabio Brazil on Jun 25, 2011 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Right on Metal.
Of course Tebow is learning. Every rookie does.
What some don’t ‘get’ is that what TT does best……is on the field. Not in scripted practices. Called improvising. And this team of many young’ens will need a lot of improvising.
Game on!
Fact: Less Governemnt = Common Sense
NFLPA should be disallowed. Period.
Good post. Only one thing wrong . . .
Orton did NOT “falter down the stretch.” He incurred rib injuries. He didn’t all the sudden tank in the last two games for no reason at all. Think about it! Just the week before the second KC game, at St. Louis, Orton threw for 347 yards and 3 TDs in one quarter – the final quarter, bringing his team back from 19 down to come within a whisker of winning the game.
Did he “falter down the stretch”? Well, before his rib injuries, he averaged in his first 11 games 306 yards/game, 7.8 YPA, 20 TDs, 6 INTs, 62% comp, and a 96.0 QBR. And, as Intelanalyst noted, he did it with a pathetic running game, an O-line that blew until the last couple games or so, and without a good pass-catching big receiver (think Marshall) or TE.
What, then, could he do with a halfway decent running game and a good TE? Well, maybe he can be about as good as Brees, et al.
-
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
by AZDynamics on Jun 25, 2011 6:29 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Mate, I was at the Rams game and he sucked BIG TIME for 3 quarters and then Rams played prevent and almost lost it...
It was painful watching him in that game. Just saying. he was dreadful in the 2nd game against KC and Arizona as well……I dont care about the injury…like in any sport, if you say you are good to go, then bring game.
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Right. If a sprinter breaks a leg, bring "game," right?
I care about the nature of the injury and how it affects the specific metabolic function of the position involved. You can bring game, but if an injury limits your physical capabilities, then “game” doesn’t mean much. I will concede that Orton should not have played in those final two games because of his injury.
Regarding the Rams game: I saw Elway during his entire career. I saw him suck BIG time for two and three quarters and then come roaring back in the fourth. So what impressed me about Orton in that game is the way he came back.
But if one is dead set determined that a player “sucks,” nothing positive will serve to soften one’s opinion. It is a psychological phenomenon . . .
-
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
by AZDynamics on Jun 26, 2011 9:04 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
Elways claim to fame is his ability to “come back”. With Orton it is a weakness, he sucked and got lucky when the defense quit defending against the long game.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Jun 26, 2011 9:09 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
His injury was hardly a broken leg AZ....you are not putting yourself out there with a broken leg...
My point is if you say you can play, then go play. If you try, and it sucks, then get out of the game. Now, we dont know whether Kyle gutted thru it (that would be my guess) but the coaches also need to make decisions as well…and so some of that lies at their feet.
I said Orton sucked in the first 3 quarters…and he did. Watch the game. He played well in the 4th quarter against a prevent defense…thats great…he did not give up…..but lets not paint as carrying a team back into a game. The Rams almost lost the game for themselves, as much as the Broncos clawed themselves back into it. As soon as Rams went back to pressuring our O line, we struggled again.
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
That was a truly bad time for our team
The coaching was falling apart and they missed big time. Tebow should have been put in when Orton was struggling. If (as I believe) Orton’s injury kept him from being able to play well, the coaches should have put Tebow in.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
I watched the game, Boydy, as I have watched Broncos games for the last 50 years.
And I already said very clearly that Kyle should not have played in those last two games, didn’t I?
Nonetheless, I guess you have never suffered a rib injury — I mean, a real rib injury. I have. If you ever do, then go outside and throw a football. In fact, just try to breath. Then you may have a better understanding.
As one who watched the Rams game, Orton did carry them back into the game. Orton was the one who threw those TD passes. Orton was the one who passed for 347 yards.
You know, what gets me about you Orton-bashers is that if his team won, it wasn’t he, but the team that did it. But if they lost, it was Orton. It is a double-standard that has existed all along . . .
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
by AZDynamics on Jun 26, 2011 9:32 AM MDT up reply actions 5 recs
Not at all...and I am not bashing Orton...
He should not of played. I played 30 years of rugby, had plenty of broken ribs, cartliage injuries and you JUST DONT PLAY.
I am putting this collectively on coaches and Orton. Orton was being a gamer, credit there. But when an injury GREATLY reduces the teams chacne for success, you are essentially throwing the whole team under the bus.
We won 4 games…..4……and it was a team effort on every one of those losses and wins.
And really….I think half you guys make Orton out to be more than he is…he is the great “IF” player…if we had better d, better O line, better run game…if, if, fricking if…..
I will continue to say it….hes an average to above average starter that needs a lot to be in place to achieve good ness…he does not have that in Denver, and we have a guy on the bench with more upside, more athletic ability…but we all should wait around while we build the team around an average QB……so he can succeed.
THATS WHAT IS INSANE TO ME!!!!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
by boydy2669 on Jun 26, 2011 3:32 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
My thoughts exactly
Had Orton sat, Tebow would have gotten more playing time, a good thing, and Orton’s value would have been better because he wouldn’t have had those last two bad games, a good thing. It would have been a win-win in my book. Just for fun, here’s Orton’s stat line if he had been sat after his injury and Tebow’s if he’d started those two games:
Tebow
Around 55% completion percentage, 1085 yards, 7 TD’s, 5 Int, 332 rushing yards and 5 rushing TD’s
Orton
60.9% comp. percentage, 3370 yards, 20 TD’s, 6 Int, that’s pretty good, actually it’s amazing. By sitting Orton, another side effect would have been that there would have been a better impression of Orton by the Denver fan base. Those last two games really killed any good image he had left, if he had sat those two games out, the rest of his games were actually much better than people remember.
So yea, starting Orton injured was a huge mistake for both McD and Studs, because it would have helped Tebow develop and Orton’s trade value.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Great points, and we would know more about Tebow now as well.....it was a bad scenario al ways around....and Orton's value would be better. Nice post Max.
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
"He should not of [sic] played"
Any player who’s worth having is always going to want to play and will think he can help the team despite his injury. It’s the coach’s job to tell him he can’t play if the coach thinks his injury is too limiting for him to be effective.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Jun 28, 2011 1:13 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yes
Didnt we just rip Cutler apart for the NFC Championship Game?
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
That was the coaches decision
Cutler didn’t bench himself
It’s really scary when you have a moment of temporary sanity.
Nelson DeMille
Speaking of a double-standard
Lloyd was the one that caught two of those passes. Moreno was the one that caught six passes for 61 yards and rushed for a TD. It was the defense that held the Rams to 3 points in the 4th quarter.
You know what gets me about you Orton supporters is that if his team lost, it wasn’t he, but the team that did it. But if they won, it was Orton. It is a double-standard that has existed all along…
Team sport bro. It’s takes more than two to tango in the NFL. Blame Orton for everything or hail Orton for everything… two sides of the same coin…. and it’s a worth a Canadian cent in a Texas stripclub.
GB2
Tulogit to quit.
lol go sit down with that nonsense . What double standard ? Everyone knows that we are talking about the passing game when talking about Orton bringing them back ..everyone but you apparently
We know he didnt catch his own passes !!!
The defense held the Rams to 3 in the 4th but they had already given up 30+ points ? roflmao and blew the initial 10-0 lead
by Hoopforia on Jun 28, 2011 9:04 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
If Orton was hurt, why did the trainers clear him to play?
I agree about the bringing back the team was a real positive for him but the playing hurt thing doesn’t cut it.
And that double standard exists for all QB’s. Maybe a selfish reason I want Tebow to not start. I hate to see him taking the blame for this brand new / rookie filled / shallow team.
Fact: Less Governemnt = Common Sense
NFLPA should be disallowed. Period.
I was at the Rams game 2
It was my first game and we almost came back
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
Good Point Boydy.
We keep hearing how Orton just needs a good running game and Defense and he’ll be all-pro. Well Moreno rushed for 165 yards and the Defense held a team to 10 points on the road no less. Orton gave us…6 points. WOW.
And Orton had THE #1 receiver in the entire NFL last year. Brandon Lloyd was everything Marshall wishes he could be.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
Just a note
He was injured that game.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jun 26, 2011 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions
Then get off the field. No excuses.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
by Heeler on Jun 26, 2011 3:53 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
What? Injured players ask to play all the time
Tebow has done it, McNabb, Manning, great QB’s play through pain because they want to be the one holding the ball. Now they often play worse while injured, like Orton did, but they want to play. So please, don’t use that type of logic, because it doesn’t apply to one player and not to another. I agree he should have been letting Tebow start, read my comments above, but your logic is flawed.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Then it's another knock on Orton. He allows ego to go before good judgement.
Maybe it was the coaches call but the simple fact is if his play hampered the team because of injury then he should have seen that and pulled himself. It’s one thing to try and play through pain but if your team loses than it’s on you. It cannot be used as an excuse.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
That double standard is the biggest problem with fans of any sport
Saying confidence and stubbornness if good in one player and bad in another is not a good way to look at a team.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jun 26, 2011 8:28 PM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
Its not a double standard
because there is a BIG difference between the 2! The good ones WIN and the bad ones LOSE
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
We are talking about injured players, saying one playing injured is a knock and another player playing injured is tough is a double standard, plain and simple.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jun 27, 2011 11:11 PM MDT up reply actions
It’s not a double standard at all. If you play injured you play injured. It’s your call but you have to accept the results of it. Kyle Orton doesn’t get an asterik after each of his pathetic games because he “played injured”. If he won games while injured… great! But he didn’t and it was very obvious that he couldn’t.
K.O. injured is simply the easiest excuse to explain away why he couldn’t perform. An excuse he himself would never accept. Football is a contact sport. Injury is a big part of it. Some guys play better with injury than others. Orton doesn’t seem like one of those guys that plays well with injury.
That double standard is the biggest problem with fans of any sport
The biggest problem with fans of any sport? That is it right there? Really?
Hyperbole is the biggest problem with fans of any sport.
GB2
Tulogit to quit.
I do think double standards are one of the biggest problems with sports fan, but a topic like that is entirely personal
As for it being a double standard has nothing to do with play at all, it’s how fans view it. It would be impossible to deny that if Tebow started those two terrible games, had the exact same performance, he’d be called tough for playing through the pain, but since it was Orton, it’s a bad thing he played. The quality of play isn’t in question here, heck it’s not even part of the topic, what matters is that if Tebow had played at the exact same level injured, people would have a different reaction to the same result by a different player.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jun 28, 2011 2:17 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Conjecture at its finest
Let me be the first to say…
If Tebow started those two terrible games, had the exact same performance, I would not call him tough for playing through the pain.
I would wonder why there is a perfectly acceptable, healthy alternative sitting on the sidelines waiting to come in that would give us a better chance to win this football game.
It would be impossible to deny that if Tebow started those two terrible games, had the exact same performance, he’d be called tough for playing through the pain
I think Orton was tough for playing through the pain. Does anyone here think that Orton was not a tough QB for playing through his pain? Maybe I missed it but who said Orton was a wimp for playing through his pain?
He still sucked though. “To be tough” and “to suck” are not mutually exclusive attributes for an NFL QB.
The quality of play isn’t in question here, heck it’s not even part of the topic
This is entirely the topic. Had Orton’s quality of play been great or even good then we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
It’s seems that your double-standard is predicated on you being able to read the minds of people on this forum. In the ever sage words of Zoolander… You must be bulimic.
GB2
Tulogit to quit.
I don't deny that Orton sucked
Heck I wanted Orton to sit so Tebow could start. And I agree with almost everything you said. As for this:
Maybe I missed it but who said Orton was a wimp for playing through his pain?But you can look up at Taylor K and Heeler’s comments for examples.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
I didn't say wimp. I said Foolhearted.
When you play injured and cannot compete at a pro level and hurt your team, you should be called out for it. That goes for every player.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
I didnt say anything about kyle Orton
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
No, you didn't, you are correct
But I used you as an example, when you said:
Its not a double standard because there is a BIG difference between the 2! The good ones WIN and the bad ones LOSE
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jun 28, 2011 11:43 PM MDT up reply actions
If you deem yourself ready to play then you are judged as if you are fit too play...
Thats the decision the coaches and Orton made, and the team (and Orton) lost. Orton stunk against the Chief’s and Cards.
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Confidence is good but stubborness is stupid and foolhearty.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
Agreed, but often they are tied very closely
I don’t doubt Tebow’s confidence, but his stubbornness isn’t hidden either. That’s not an attack, rather a statement that they are often both within a player.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jun 27, 2011 11:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Its crazy how sometimes we say
Orton should have sat out because of injuries, yet we rip on others for sitting out because of injuries, in this case I’m talking about Cutler
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
Different situation..
We were a losing young team with needs with a 1st round QB sitting on the bench. There was nothing at stake for our team except the devlopment of the young guys.
With Cutler, they were one half from the SUper Bowl with EVERYTHING at stake.
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Is it Free Agency yet? Wake me up when it starts!
True
I thought at the time, and still do, that it was a good time to put Tebow in. Really, I think that was a perfect scenario for a rookie QB to get some starts – when the starter gets hurt, late in a losing season, with nothing at stake.
As opposed to, say, Cutler replacing a popular QB (with everyone but Shanahan) when the team was very much in the playoff race.
It’s really scary when you have a moment of temporary sanity.
Nelson DeMille
All I know...
is that if Orton wins some retarded “qb competition” in training camp where the qbs wear red jerseys and can’t be hit, then goes out week one and “leads” our team to 6 glorious points, I’m going to friggin lose it……
by cskilly on Jun 26, 2011 5:44 AM MDT reply actions 2 recs
Hahahaha...great point. Its like being a great golf player on the range!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
"leads" our team to 6 glorious points, I’m going to friggin lose it…
Week 1 17 points
week 2 31
week 3 13
week 4 26
week 5 17
week 6 20
week 7 14
week 8 16
week 10 49
week 11 14
week 12 33
week 13 6
week 14 13
If our defense would play better maybe we could win a few games. You take one game, the lowest point total of the year and make it out to be the best Orton can do? How dare you call a legitimate QB competition retarted because you are afraid your favorite player may not win it. You have just made a STUPID post. If Tebow comes out and plays the way he did last year then we will end up 4 -12. How about you celebrate that since you seem to think that the results from last year guarantee performance this year. You pick one game with the lowest points scored the entire year and make it out to be the best Orton can do and that somehow means we must start Tebow.
What a bunch of Bull. If Tebow can’t beat the no talent, top of his potential, can’t step up, no clutch Orton in a competition then what the hell chance does he have of winning in the NFL.
I am an Orton supporter, I am an Tebow supporter. Orton is good, Tebow can be good. I love the Broncos and I want to best player playing.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Jun 26, 2011 8:53 AM MDT up reply actions 4 recs
Sean, I think he was just trying to be funny, at least thats the way I took it. Maybe I am wrong.
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
It didn't read that way
If I am wrong then I have lots of egg to clean up :(
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
I could be wrong too man...who knows!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Take a closer look at those point totals.
13 games started. 8 with fewer than 20 points, 1 with 20 points and 4 over 20. He had a 19.3 PPG average. That’s pretty weak. You say the 6 points was a freak occurance and that’s fair. But so was the 49. Kick ’em both out. Guess what? It gets worse. 17.81 PPG average.
It takes a team but the QB wears the record.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
Points allowed
The divisional basement:
Bills 425
Bengals 395
Titans 339
Broncos 471
Redskins 377
Vikings 348
Panthers 408
Cardinals 434
I understand the QB gets the press, the accolades, and I suppose even the record. I just don’t see how our offense was going to score enough to offset that defense.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Jun 26, 2011 11:32 AM MDT up reply actions
Points for
Again, the basement
Bills 283
Bengals 322
Titans 356 6 wins
Broncos 344
Redskins 302 6 wins
Vikings 281 6 wins
Panthers 196
Cardinals 289 5 wins
Two teams share our record, one team has a worse record. We scored more points than three teams that have a better record than us. Six teams that are not the worst in the division scored less than we did. The Broncos outscored the Bears for pete’s sake. The Broncos outscored every team in the NFC West. The Broncos outscored a lot of teams and gave up more points than every team!
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Jun 26, 2011 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
A very interesting point
During some studying I was doing, teams that allowed the same number of points in a season or more, won an average of 2 games. We beat the average by 2 wins because our offense was above average.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
by Topher Doll on Jun 26, 2011 1:14 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Indeed interesting. But there is this.
Over the same 13 games (Since we are talking about Orton)
Bills 19.6 PPG
Cardinals 18.6 PPG
Vikes 17.46 PPG
Redskins 17.5 PPG
Titans 22.38 PPG
Bengals 20.15 PPG
Not one of those teams is going into this season with a settled QB situation. Titans drafted new blood, Redskins don’t know what they are going to do but it is evident that McNabb wasn’t the solution. Bengals – Palmer, need I say more? Arizona is a possible landing spot for Orton or Kolb. Vikings…WOW, what a mess.
Low scoring teams make changes. We are due for one IMO. Just looking at your Basement rankings and a quick but not exaustive search shows me KO was #28 in points per game. That is a big ouch and should be addressed.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
Of those teams
only the Titans outscored us.
I don’t think QB is our biggest need. Defense by far needs our attention. Our running game and O line are areas that need work.
Our QB is better than most of those (IMHO) that we are in the basement with. Our team would have done much better (thus no QB contro) if we werent starting two rookies on the line, if we didn’t have to keep dealing with injuries to our few good players.
I am not advocating Orton over Tebow. Just pointing out how the blame does not fall at the QB’s feet. No matter how much you want to blame Orton, we have far worse problems than QB.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
That is true but Starting QB is still A problem.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
As far as our qb situation being better, yes only because we have a future QB in Tebow.
I think Orton could play for any of the Basement dwellers and the result is the same. All the basement dwellers have multiple problems. Mediocre teams have position problems. We have multiple holes on both sides of the ball. QB is just one of the smaller ones.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
We weren't really that low of a scoring team
Slightly below average, and most of it was a lack of a good running game, which was masked by Tebow’s great success in the RZ. You have to remember that scoring and offense is more than just a QB. And while I think Tebow should start and Orton gone, I think fans would rather just toss the blame on one player rather than look at the whole picture, which may take more work.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
this is big reach and should be addressed
26 ppg 16 ppg on the road and Orton was pretty much carrying the entire team
Orton was 12th in passer rating after 13 games and none of the other Qbs on the other teams were even close . In fact those teams would love to have Orton as those Qbs had way more help but just performed poorly except the Titans but they have CJ .
after 13 games QBR
Orton 89
Titans 84
Bills 79
Cincy 77
Skins 71
Vikes 71
Cards 56
Those are the numbers with the two stinkers by Orton before that he had a 92 QBR .Its no coincidence that just about every single last one of those teams sans the Skins Orton was at one time mentioned as a option .
We were a not a low scoring team we were a high scoring team for our situation . We benefited from having one of the better passing Qbs in the league on our roster.
We scored 27 ppg at home and 16 ppg on the road. You dont win on the road without strong special teams ,defense ,and running game.
Let's look at where we want to be.
Balt 22.31 PPG
Atlanta 25.8
Ind 27.18
NE 32.3
GB 24.5
Chi 20.8
Seatlle 20
NO 25.3
All of these teams have a franchise QB save 1. (SEA) And at that I would take a healthy Hasselback. They all have good to great defenses save 1 (Guess which that one is?) but they have offenses that score led by Good to great QB’s. Orton just isn’t in that league. Not saying Tebow is. We don’t know yet. We know Orton isn’t.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
mm,mm, heeler
Did you miss my stats? The Bears with their franchise QB and being where we want to be. Well, uhm, We scored more than they did last year.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Jun 26, 2011 4:25 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
ha
Seattle as well. That is two of your examples of what we want to be that we are already better than.
Chicago and Cutler, yeah, we outscored them
Seattle and Hasselbach, yeah again, we beat them and outscored them for the year.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
Seattle scored more per game than we did with Orton at QB.
As did Chicago. You also need to read a bit closer as I mentioned Seattle as being the exception. Orton led us to 19.3 PPG. That is his average and it is below every single playoff QB including Seattle and Chicago. Seattle should have never been in the playoffs and Chicago was shown to be what they were by a tougher more physical team in GB.
When McD’s offense clicked it was magic and Orton looked great. The problem was it didn’t click very often and the offense and defense NEVER clicked on the same day. Case in Point is the 2nd KC game. Orton is very average. Like the guy, he has been a good team mate from all acounts but his record is a scarlet letter. Some of that is unfair but most of it isn’t.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
Again simple football that you seem to ignore
The Bears had the Best starting field position in the league due to its special teams and defense that was top ten in forced turnovers.
Seattle made the playoffs by winning the worst division in the league at 7-9
They had the 8th starting field position and a defense that forced a ton of turnovers
We averaged 21.3 ppg with Orton under center I dont know you calculated 19.3 and with that defense and special teams in that division why didnt they deserve to be in the playoffs ?
Listen to yourself man the example you wanna use to show how the defense showed up is WEEK 12 of a 16 game season .
The offense didnt click but averaged 21 ppg the defense during that same span gave up 27 ppg .
Our offense scored just a notch below the Jets,Ravens,Pitt,Titans ,and more than the Bears even though it didnt have nearly as many weapons or the benefit of being setup for some easy points like some of the offenses did .
It simple fundamental football and you keep ignoring it .
by Hoopforia on Jun 26, 2011 9:40 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not ignoring it. Orton has an 11-18 record as a starter in Denver and you're ignoring it.
Stop making excuses. You’re in love with Orton. I get it. He plays well when everything is perfect. But that does not make for entertaing or winning football. Yes he scored a few points. Most of them against 2 opponents and that makes him the second coming of Elway in your book. He had 1 maybe 2 decent games last year. The rest of the time he was playing from behind, chucking the ball and racking up every great stat but one…WINNING.
Yes our defense stunk it up. But so did our special teams, running game and so did Orton. By the way my math was wrong but so is yours. 20.6 PPG is the correct number. And that is well below the 25ppg Tebow averaged as a starter.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
avg points per game means nothing
3 points is enough to win a game. It only matters if you score more than your opponent on the day you play. Our defense gave up more points than our offense scored. On the season we scored as well as many teams but gave up more points than any other team.
You can blame Orton all you want but that won’t stop the opponent from scoring.
There are so many parts of the team that goes into scoring. You can say the team leader gets the record but changing the leader won’t necessarily give you a better record.
You said it yourself, our team was playing from behind. That means our defense was not stopping our opponent. That is bad. Tebow according to your post scored 25 points per game, but our defense gave up 27 according to Hoop. So, we are still losing. Now what?
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Jun 26, 2011 10:58 PM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
Again proving my point about your bias
You mentioned how many points the other teams AVERAGED did you go through there games and pick out ones you wanted to eliminate ?
before posting the Falcons numbers did you eliminate there 41 pt game against the Cards or there 39 pt game against the Bengals ? Do you not see the hypocrisy in your ever changing argument ?
You openly post the negatives that youve twisted to fit your argument and then dismiss any positives .
Where have I compared Orton to Elway ? Again your argument is weak so in response all you can do is to make up stuff to distract from the facts.
No your math is skewed and slanted again which is what AIl been saying all along . At a certain point it no longer becomes a mistake and starts to become intentional;
We averaged 21.3 ppg as a team the first 13 games and 25 ppg as a team the final 3 games
offensively we averaged 20.3 ppg the first 13 games and 22.6 over the final 3 .
Do you see how you counted the special teams score in Tebows numbers and then removed the special teams score in Ortons ?
You claim Orton only had 1-2 decent games last year but if after half a season he accounted for 85% of the yards and 75% our tds your claim just doesnt hold up .
Not when we know that our offense was in the top ten doing that time and that our defense running game and special teams were all at the bottom of the league .
Our offense is not a finished product and needs some work but it did very well under the circumstances and the primary reason it diod that well is because our Qb and the passing game . The only reason people dont want to acknowledge that is because its Orton and its getting more and more obvious
by Hoopforia on Jun 27, 2011 9:27 AM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
Still more points under Tebow. And I took the point totals from all of Orton's starts and divided by 13. You know from his 3-10 record.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
I didn't cherry pick games.
I only agreed that Orton’s 6 point game unfairly hurt his average as that was a freak occurance as was his 49 point game. In the overall average per game I included all points from 13 starts. Try to follow here. Orton started 13 games. In those 13 Games the Broncos score 269 Points. Total. Nothing dropped. 269/13=20.6. All special teams scores, defensive scores…everything.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
Lighten up Fancis
You can quote all the stats you want….Orton just doesn’t pass the smell test with me.
Right. Because we know better than the Head Coach about such things, right?
I leave it to you to tell Fox about his “retarded” procedures . . . if you can even get close enough to talk to him . . .
-
BILLY THOMPSON GOT SHAFTED!!
We averaged 27 ppg at home and 16 ppg on the road under Orton
Some of you have no clue as to what you are talking about .
When the coaches look at the film the first thing that jumped out at them was that Orton wast he problem .
He, like everyone else was part of the porblem. And as Elway said, Kyle needs to become a WINNING QB and that record, fair or unfair belongs to him and he needs to change that!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
No...I said he sucked against Rams, Cards and Chiefs and I stick to that, because he did.
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Yeah, lets build a franchise around Orton...GREAT idea!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
I never said build a franchise around Orton . We need infrastructure not a decade long search for "the one "
You say he sucked against he Rams I say he drove us down and scored on the opening drive on his homefield 7-0 good guys right ? next drives he moves us and gets us a fg … 10-0 good guys right ? end of the quarter
Well the defense then allows 19 straight points in the 2nd quarter and its now 26-10 at the half . Start of the 3rd and a Knowshon fumble makes it 33-10 .
We then score 20 in the 4th to get to within 3 all on Ortons arm but after watching the game youve come to the conclusion that Orton sucked .
It aint got nothing to do with kool-aid but the smear campaign some of you have going against Orton is impressive but just like the noodle arm gang from last year its flat out wrong .
So let me get this straight...
The Broncos score 10 unanswered points in the first quarter to start the game. Forget the Defense Kyle Orton is effing amazing. Then at 1:32 the Rams score a TD. Retarded Defense.
But then Prater kicks a field goal on the first drive of the second quarter. Love that guy Orton… getting us into field goal range.
But then we give up TD, TD, FG, FG, TD. That damn defense gave away the game! If only Knowshon had more than 5 opportunities to get us into scoring position everything would have been great. God knows if Orton had five chances to make something happen he would have done it.
So in five chances the D gives up 5 scores. That’s bad. And in five chances the offense responds with zero scores. That’s also bad. You say the defense allowed 19 straight points in the 2nd quarter… and our offense did nothing. It’s convenient to forget that fact… I know.
This game, as close as it was, was lost by a combined team effort. It’s how football works. We scored 20 in the 4th on Orton’s arm just as much as we scored 20 in the 4th on Lloyd’s catches and Royal’s catch and runs while overlooking the fact that the defense made 3 stops on the Ram’s offense to allow the Broncos to come back.
GB2
Tulogit to quit.
Im not sure you can get anything straight but Ill respond anyway
A 10 pt lead AT HOME against he rams and you allow them to score 19 straight points and damn right retarded defense.
Now you want to dismiss the fg again true haterz always find away to try and minimize something when they know the premise of the argument is stupid.
The Rams came into that game averaging 14 ppg on the road .
We were up 10-0 and they marched down the field in 12 plays and converted a 4th and 1 to go on to make it 10-7 .
WE DID RESPOND We drove down kicked another fg its 13-7
First play of the next possession its a 30 yard end around any momentum the offense had built up the defense killed it ad sucked the air right out of the stadium .
Now that was 3 offensive possessions and 3 scores but the defense never stopped the bleeding 14-3 then 20-13 then 23-13 then Royal fumbles and its 26-13 at the half
Thats 3 scored in 5 offensive possessions in the first half for us. We have to drive 80-90 yards they are starting on the 29 or 40 .
Its reason why Elway said
“We’ve got to get back to dominating at home, and the way you do that is with a great defense,” Elway said. "Our fans want to be loud.
But if the defense stays on the field for so many plays and can’t stop anybody, after a while the crowd kind of gives up. You make some big plays, get a turnover or a punt, and the crowd will have an effect on us and the other team.
“We’ve got to go 6-2 or better at home.”
The Rams averaged 14 ppg on the road coming into our game
Our offense was not gonna score every possession driving 80-90 yards
Our offense scored in 3 of 5 first half possessions – they did nothing
The defense allowed the Rams to score on 5 of 6 possessions but somehow the offense did nothing to help them ?
Like I said before the haters always take issues with the silliest things . When someone says we came back on Ortons arm who doesnt take that as the passing game ? which includes Lloyd and Royal .
It shouldnt have never came to having to come back in the 4th quarter PERIOD. Elway and any who follows the games know it .
At 10-0 against a team struggling offensively on the road like that it should be game over but just like the Chiefs game where its 21-0 and but ends 49-29 at home it simply should not be happening .
by Hoopforia on Jun 28, 2011 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
As always Hoop....keep drinking the Orton Kool Aid...he just aint that good....dont know whether Tebow is either but we need to find out...
You guys that want to build a franchise around Orton are basically nuts.
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
by boydy2669 on Jun 27, 2011 5:21 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
we shouldnt be building the franchise around any one guy we should be building it around winning .
Id rather us not waste decades before realizing that waiting on one guy in todays day and age is stupid .
Id rather us do it the Steelers way instead of the Lions way and Im quite sure Elway would agree with that .
by Hoopforia on Jun 27, 2011 6:35 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
Cool. Then we need to build around a guy that wins.....
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
like......
um um IDK dude we dont have a QB that wins on the roster
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
and the Raiders!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yall forget that? That game lost my faith in Orton when he gave up completely
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
Orton stunk but the raider game was when I finally could no longer back McD. You'll get there with Orton Hoop.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
Ya thats true
After that game I wanted to turn the organization upside down starting with McDaniels head
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
I know, right?
I mean, every time the raiders scored on Orton it killed me. I kept screaming at the tv for Orton to defend a catch or stop a run.
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
by Sean in Pa. on Jun 28, 2011 5:33 AM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
You mean the pick 6 he telegraphed? Sorry but the comment was meant as light hearted.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
Not the MCD part. That is truly when I lost all confidence in him.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
Sorry. Long day at the office. I get a little trigger happy.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
No one is saying he sucks, he's just DeBerg. A transition to a better QB everywhere he goes.
Even the teams that are looking at Orton see him as a stop Gap.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
He's very similar to Deberg. Just watch how his career plays out.
They have similar stats, career winning percentage, QB Ratings. They’re both statues in the pocket and can’t move. It wasn’t an insult. They are very similar. Both need everyone around them to be near perfect for them to be good. Plus every where DeBerg went, that team started looking for it’s qb of the future. Same is happening with Orton. It’s more timing thing.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
Orton's a statue?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRKTh19Hrfk
It’s really scary when you have a moment of temporary sanity.
Nelson DeMille
Gosh Orton is just a regular Micheal Vick
lets build around Orton he has it all he is smart, He can throw accurately and he can run hes the future boys
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
Way to take it too far.
How does Orton is not a statue turn into Orton is Vick?
Opinions are like......, Well anyway, this is mine.
It was the video Bro he ran in that video
watch the video its crazy he was like a running back. You know I dont like our franchise QB taking hits like that game after game because of his running
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
no they dont this is just plain football ignorance
When Deberg was 28 yrs old his numbers were as such
Deberg- 8-23 record as a starter
Orton – 32-29 record as a starter
Deberg 9,422 yds 50 tds 77 Ints’ 65 QBR
Orton 12,774 yds 71 tds 48 Ints 79 QBR
Yeah Orton is exactly like Deberg ……..
by Hoopforia on Jun 27, 2011 9:44 AM MDT up reply actions 6 recs
numbers numbers numbers
IDK who Deburg is and if Orton wasnt a Bronco I wouldnt know who he was either sounds simmilar to me
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
Sorry, Taylor, but your response to Hoopforia is pretty lame
You don’t like what the numbers say so you dismiss them, then still insist both QBs are similar because you never heard of one and wouldn’t have heard of the other if he wasn’t a Bronco. And sarcastic straw-man exaggerations (no one remotely suggested he was comparable to Vick) aren’t much of an argument, either. I don’t think Hoopforia was saying Orton is the second coming of Elway (or Vick), just that he’s better (more serviceable if you prefer) than many people want to admit. It wouldn’t diminish you to acknowledge that the other person has a point. I do it all the time.
"Surprised to see you, Captain, though pleased." — from Star Trek episode Space Seed.
by spock on Jun 28, 2011 12:45 AM MDT up reply actions 3 recs
Sorry, spock, but your response to me to Hoopforia is pretty lame
actually its pretty good you all changed my mind Orton is our guy for the next 20 years
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
seriously people Tebow is lame lets send him to Arizona and keep Orton
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
Taylor, Deberg was our starting QB when Elway arrived.
He was San Frans QB when Joe Montana arrived, Ours when Elway arrived and with Tampa when Steve Young and Testaverde got there. Talk about bad luck. Ignore hoop and his twisting of history. Deberg was a good and servicable QB much like Orton. Fierce competitor and strong armed. He just was average. Teamamtes loved him but he was average, just like Orton. But don’t take my word for it, here are the words of Bill Walsh.
Quote:
In the off-season, Walsh traded DeBerg to make room for Montana. ``Steve was such a charismatic leader, such a competitor, that I don’t think Joe could ever have become the leader we needed with him around,’’ said Walsh.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg…15/SP68440.DTL
Quote:
Bill Walsh: We had Steve DeBerg, who was performing pretty darn well the first year. He broke a record for completions (347 in 1979) and he played well. He wasn’t very mobile, and that hurt us. But he was a good performer. Of course, he played for 17 years. But Joe was there, and every time Joe played it was absolutely exhilarating. Fortunately, because of Steve, I was able to use Joe at appropriate times in a game. And we didn’t feel the heat of having to win.
http://www.nfl.com/insider/story/5813806
Hmmm, QB sets passing records on losing team. Sound familiar Hoop? As I said Orton doesn’t suck, he is just DeBergesque. I see the same pattern in his career. Stop Gap to something better. He’ll have his moment someday perhaps, like DeBerg did in KC, but I don’t think it will be here.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
lol what did I twist those are the facts How could you say this ? and then try and post a link to articles ROFLMAO
They have similar stats, career winning percentage, QB Ratings. They’re both statues in the pocket and can’t move
what I quoted is what you said what you quoted has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU SAID .
You are spinning it and making your self look like a damn fool . Your own words damn you not me .
Full spin mode after making a fool of yourself lol
Didn't read it the articles did you?
Bill Walsh might as well have been talking about Kyle Orton. Good Arm, Great teammate and practiced well. He knew he could not move Montana tp the starting role with DeBerg in the mix. Similar to what you have said about Tebow and Orton. Bill walsh said himself that DeBerg was not very Mobile. Orin is not mobile. Orton has a career QB Rating of 79, Deberg has one of 74. Orton is very, very good at play action as was Deberg.
“DeBerg began his NFL career in San Francisco. Coach Bill Walsh took over the team in 1979. In the 1979 and 1980 NFL seasons DeBerg set several records for number of passing attempts and completions. However, when Walsh drafted Joe Montana from Notre Dame, DeBerg was relegated to a backup role. Similar events unfolded again and again over the next decade: He was not only with the 49ers when they drafted Joe Montana, but also with the Denver Broncos when John Elway was drafted, and at Tampa Bay when both Steve Young and Vinny Testaverde were brought in.
DeBerg passed for over 34,000 career yards, and ranks in the top 20 all-time for attempts, completions, and yards passing. His best years were with the Chiefs, during which he led the team to two playoff berths and had his best year in 1990 with a 96.3 quarterback rating, passing for 3,444 yards, 23 touchdowns and only 4 interceptions, with 3 of those interceptions coming in one game. Throughout his career, he was frequently noted as one of the best Play-action pass quarterbacks of all time. Peyton Manning has studied films of DeBerg’s play-action technique.“-”The long journey: Steve DeBerg’s 17-year career was a tale of ‘What could have been’". Sports Illustrated.
Took teams to playoffs, set NFL records, known as a technician … pretty good QB to be compared to I would say. As I stated above It was not meant as an insult. I will give orton this, he is much more careful with the ball. I don’t know this for sure but I think DeBerg fancied himself a gunslinger in his younger days and it hurt him.
No spin just honest assestment. Orton reminds me of DeBerg. He is average to above average. That doesn’t mean suck. But he is not the all-pro man god you have made him out to be. I would put him right where he is on a lot of the rankings. Just below the middle of the pack.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
by Heeler on Jun 29, 2011 9:25 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I never said he was a all-pro god and I did read the articles but they are irrelevant to your claims
Everytime one of you says something thats just flat out stupid it veers into that someone is claiming Orton to be a HOF player or something
They have similar stats, career winning percentage, QB Ratings. They’re both statues in the pocket and can’t move
Orton isnt a statue and moves just fine hes Randall Cunningham compared to Deberg .
Orton at age 28 has 206 yards rushing and 3 tds
Deberg in his 17 year career has 200 yards rushing and 7 tds
I dont know whats wrong with you but its amazing that instead of just saying you are wrong you will simply spin it and spin it .
Youre trying to compare Deberg 17 yr career to Ortons 6 year ongoing career and say they are similar when at the same age Ortons dwarfs Deberg in every stat and then you try say its a honest assessment that Ortons on a similar career path ?
Orton is NOT mobile.
He might be in your man-crush fantasy but in reality he is one of the slowest footed QB’s the league has seen. If you’ll look I stated over the career so you win no points there. If you would take a moment you would realize that being compared to DeBerg is quite the compiment. Orton has yet to lead the league in Completions. Deberg did it his second year. Orton has yet to lead the league in attempts, again deBerg his second Year.
The Deberg comparison stands and nothing you can try to produce can show different. They are both QB’s with strong teammate qualities, Good arms but slow footed. Orton is more careful with the ball/ It is something that DeBerg learned later when he posted a 102 qb rating. They both have been moved to make way for perceived better options. Orton is about to be moved again for a perceived better option. Where Orton lands will be another stop-off. They will either have someone in the wings or will be drafting one soon. He will be a career Journeyman similar to DeBerg. Nothing wrong with that. It will bring longevity.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
Hes more mobile than Deberg
Hes already shown that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRKTh19Hrfk
you are in denial lol
what does leading the league in attempts have to do with anything ?
I have have nothing against Deberg but your comparison is just totally wrong and you know it .
As I said before what you are doing is intentional in the misleading of posts and I would hope everyone would see this now . Its actually quite funny the way you are .
Its nothing wrong with admitting you are wrong. But Ive already seen you have this habit of making stuff up and this further re enforces that point .
The Deberg comparison stands and nothing you can try to produce can show different
.
meanwhile
They have similar stats, career winning percentage, QB Ratings. They’re both statues in the pocket and can’t move
however
When Deberg was 28 yrs old his numbers were as such
Deberg- 8-23 record as a starter
Orton – 32-29 record as a starter
Deberg 9,422 yds 50 tds 77 Ints’ 65 QBR
Orton 12,774 yds 71 tds 48 Ints 79 QBR
Orton at age 28 has 206 yards rushing and 3 tds
Deberg in his 17 year career has 200 yards rushing and 7 tds
seriously …..youve basically decided that the facts have no basis in your comparison lol
Hoop
You’re making a mistake by trying to show video to Heeler. He’s a guy with his mind made up, and that is that..
I cited the same video up above, after Heeler said that Orton was a statue. No response from “the guy with a made up mind”.
But I don’t know – earlier Orton was a statue, now he’s merely
“… one of the slowest footed QB’s the league has seen.”
Maybe there’s hope for Heeler yet. Miracles happen.
It’s really scary when you have a moment of temporary sanity.
Nelson DeMille
Watched your Video. It is from 2009 and shows that when the line blocks and Orton has a wide open back field he can jog.
WOW! You left out these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsTXQ8gGKSU&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyGqm2Kzao0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzAgSDleUhw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je9u-XBE6_k&feature=related
Satue.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
If you are IMMOBILE AND LIKE A STATUE it doesnt matter how well the line blocks .
by Hoopforia on Jul 1, 2011 8:55 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
actually it kinda does
LMBO
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
I see your point
After watching those videos, it’s clear that Tebow could have avoided all the sacks by leaping over all the defenders. While Orton proved his cementness.
Sorry, Heeler, but your hideboundness asserts itself once again. None of those sacks would have been avoided by any QB in the league.
It’s really scary when you have a moment of temporary sanity.
Nelson DeMille
by bradley on Jul 1, 2011 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Really...I am over it...who gives a shit...lets get a season first and then the best man will win...
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Is it Free Agency yet? Wake me up when it starts!
Okay once more because you don't seem to understand that I originally stated Career.
I said Career Stats not at age 28 so once more you are twisting things. Deberg CAREER (Got that?) Rating 74
Orton CAREER (Got it again? I can type slower if you would like.) is 79. Similar.
I noticed that you left out that Deberg led the league in completions his second year. Pretty good stat there. I already stated that DeBerg was more careless with the ball. DeBerg CAREER Completion PCT 57% Orton 58%. Career Fumbles DeBerg 2. Orton 16. (Just thought 2 fumbles in 17 years was pretty cool.)
The biggest comparison that you seem to keep missing is how DeBerg’s career played out. (Remember, I said to watch how the 2 careers play out…Look again if you need to.) Traded from SF to bring in Joe Montana. Traded to Denver who gets John Elway. Moves on to Tampa Bay who gets Steve Young. Everywhere DeBerg went was a set-up for the next best thing. Now let’s look at Orton. Drafted by Chicago and traded to bring in Jay Cutler. One year in Denver and Denver drafts Tebow. Every team that is looking at Orton right now is looking at him as a stable vet to bridge the gap. He will be someone just to keep the seat warm. As I have stated several times I don’t think Orton stinks, I think his timing is bad as well as some of his luck. Whoever gets him will get a capable and talented QB. But I think he will be around a while, maybe a season or two while the next guy is groomed. At some point, if he is lucky he will find his team as DeBerg did in KC. It isn’t Denver IMO. That is the biggest comparison to DeBerg and why I say the comparison stands on it’s own.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
You two need to take this private
and discuss it by e mail.
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
Ortons career is not over so why would you not compare them at the same age if you believe Ortons career path is gonna end up like Debergs .
Ortons career at age 28 looks nothing like Debergs there is no basis for this comparison .
Its like saying Tim will be like Matt Leinart because hes left handed
Wait... I thought you said only defenses lose games?
Which is it the QB get’s the record or the Defense? If it’s the QB than you just proved my point because Orton 11-17 in Denver.
"The problem with quotes in internet signatures is 90% of them are made up -Ghandi"
only teams lose games
the Denver Broncos are 11-17 the defense the offense and the special teams all make up the Denver Broncos Kyle Orton just happened to be the leader of our offense so he gets a little bit more of the blame then the guy who blocks on kickoffs
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
I chose let the QBs earn the job in camp. (if there is one)
I also believe that if Tebow is half the competitor I think he is, he will win the job.
I think it’s time to move on…
I've been bleedin' orange and blue since Floyd Little in '71-'72 and will 'til the day I die!
Bring back the Orange Crush!
RANDY GRADISHAR in the HOF!!!!
by WyoBronco on Jun 27, 2011 9:11 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
yep thats pretty much whats going to happen
and I gotta agree with that I just hope if Tebow starts we dont develop a losing culture
No save ammunition all bullets in gun now- Bruce Campbell
Stand up straight a man looks more confident when he is erect- Taj
I don't always drink and drive, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis- BroncoPH
GO BRONCOS
It actually disgusts me that people are still arguing QB's
by ConradA on Jun 29, 2011 10:43 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
by KaptainKirk on Jun 29, 2011 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions
Yep, lets argue punters and kickers...PRATER SUCKS!!!!! I have put a monotorium on myself with regards to it!
FIRE DE MAURICE SMITH...he can go suck dog balls for all I care!
NFLPA??? National Fools and Lame Pricks Association!
ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE HAVE IN TEBOW? Watching Kyle orton is like watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch...you always know whats going to happen and makes you feel sick at the end!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Time for another SUCK post Boydy
Character may be manifested in the great moments but it is made in the small ones -- Philip Brooks
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru.
Follow me on Twitter @MHR_KaptainKirk
I think it might be KK....need to add some levity my friend!
"I actually watched the World Cup. I HATE baseball. Hockey’s over. Hey, at least we have the WNBA. Oh, man. I’m making a noose. Want one?"
Harv Neptune.
Is it Free Agency yet? Wake me up when it starts!
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